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No, Independents Are Not Just Discouraged Republicans

A Response To Josh Marshall

The centerpiece of my thesis (discussed here and here) that Mitt Romney will win Tuesday’s election is his consistently strong showing among independent voters (ie, voters who identify as neither Republicans nor Democrats) across the majority of national and state polls, pretty much regardless of whether those are polls he’s winning or losing. On that score, I believe the polls; if they’re wrong about the independent vote, my analysis is essentially irrelevant. But if they’re right, I believe I’ll be proven right. If Romney goes on to win independents nationally by 5+ points and carry independents by more than a few points in states like Ohio and Wisconsin, he will win.

Obama can only overcome that kind of deficit among independents by decisively winning the partisan turnout battle – indeed, the polls that show him winning nationally or on a state-by-state basis do so almost uniformly by projecting a decisive advantage in Democratic turnout – but when you look for evidence outside of the polling samples themselves of that Democratic turnout advantage, you won’t find it.

There are two main arguments currently circulating for why Obama will win in spite of these factors. Both are premised upon the notion that the Obama-favoring polls are correctly projecting an electorate on the order of 2008′s D+7 (D 39/R 32/I 29) electorate, in which Obama’s turnout advantage will outweigh his loss of independent voters. I dealt on Wednesday with the first of those: Nate Silver’s polling model, which simply assumes that state-level polls are correctly projecting the turnout, on the theory that state polling averages have historically been trustworthy.

The other main argument comes from Josh Marshall. Marshall’s thesis is that independents are supporting Romney because the ranks of independent voters have been swelled by “an exodus from the GOP to the right”:

In other words, a lot of people left the Republican party, in identification terms. But they didn’t become Democrats. And it doesn’t seem (at least from the politics of the last two years) like they became more moderate of ‘centrist’ in ideological terms. They simply reidentified themselves as independents… I think in a lot of cases they actually re-identified because the GOP wasn’t right-wing enough, call it a Tea Party exodus from the GOP.

…[W]hat does not seem in doubt is that a lot of people who had called themselves Republicans started calling themselves independents, notwithstanding the fact that there’s little evidence they became less conservative.

And if that’s the case, you can see without much problem how Romney could be winning independents: because a lot of those independents are people who used to be Republicans. Or to put it another way, the pool of independents got a lot more conservative without changing the overall composition of the electorate. You just had a zero-sum transfer between Republican and independent.

This is a plausible-sounding theory, if you think independent voters are some sort of strange new phenomenon never before seen on the American electoral landscape, and Marshall backs it up with a colorful line graph showing the results of what he describes as various national party ID surveys. But it does not stand up to scrutiny.

Let’s look at a screenshot of Marshall’s chart; you can go click over to TPM if you want to play around with the various bells and whistles on it:

First of all, as Marshall himself admits, “we keep this data set of ‘adults’ rather than registered or likely voters. That makes it somewhat different from the voting electorate. …These are polls which simply ask people over 18, how do you identify in partisan terms.” As anyone who follows elections even remotely closely knows, polls of “all adults” are completely worthless, and a campaign whose supporters are citing polls of “all adults” rather than registered or likely voters six days before an election is doomed.

Second, notice something about the math here: Marshall is citing a collection of surveys that say the population is 32.5 D/25.2 R/33 I at present – which adds up to 90.7% of the people. What happened to the other 9.3%? As of the line in the middle representing the 2010 election, he shows the population as 34.2 D/30.2 R/28 I – again, 92.4% of the people, with 7.6% unaccounted for. Around Election Day 2008, it shows 39.4 D/30.6 R/25.2 I – 95.2% of the population, with 4.8% unaccounted for. It’s impossible to translate those kinds of large omissions into a useful tool for analyzing the electorate. (In fact, Marshall shows independents outnumbering Democrats – and if that happens, I promise you, Obama is toast).

Third, it doesn’t match up to the actual voter turnout. Exit polls in 2008 show 39% D and 31% R, numbers consistent with the chart, but 29% rather than 25% I. For 2010, it’s way off: Marshall’s chart has the population at 30.2% Republican and a D+4 advantage for Democrats, when in fact we know the exits showed a D 36/R 36/I 28 electorate. Somehow, the 7.6% of the people not accounted for turned out to almost all be Republicans. Marshall makes no effort to test how any of these surveys (or his rolling average of surveys) has matched up historically to the actual electorate, unlike my comparison of the track record of the Gallup and Rasmussen party ID surveys (both of which he mysteriously leaves out of his average) dating back over multiple elections. I will trust the people who have done this before and been proven reliable.

If it was true that success with independent voters was the result of defectors from the party, you would expect recent and longer-term history to show an inverse relationship between success with independents and partisan turnout – that is, you’d expect to see Republicans doing better with independents when GOP turnout is low, and Democrats doing better with independents when Democratic turnout is low. There is, in fact, some evidence that that was true before 1984, when a lot of independents and “Reagan Democrats” started self-identifying as Republicans. But since then, if you look at the presidential election years and the last two off-year Congressional elections (2006 and 2010), what you see in general is more like the opposite relationship: parties tend to do better with independents when they are turning out a lot of their own partisans. This chart shows the percentage of Democrats and Republicans in the electorate each of those years, along with each party’s share of the two-party vote among independents (that is, I dropped out the percentage of independents voting for Ross Perot, John Anderson, etc.):

As you can see, Democrats did well with independents in years like 1996, 2006 and 2008 when Democratic turnout was up, indicating that good partisan environments/candidates drew Democrats to the polls and attracted independent voters. Republicans did better with independents in 2010 when Republican turnout was up. Independents were closely divided in 2000 and 2004. This is what anybody who has spent any time working in the fields of campaigns, polling or election punditry would expect to see – strength with independent voters nearly always goes hand-in-hand with the party-base enthusiasm that drives good voter turnout. A big Democratic turnout year and small Republican turnout year at the same time as a big Republican surge with independent voters is out of whack with history.

I don’t doubt that, anecdotally, a fair number of people left the GOP after 2008 to join the long-time Perotista faction and build a core bloc of Tea Party-friendly independents. Rasmussen’s surveys suggest that a good chunk of those people came home to the GOP by the time of the 2010 election, and if they didn’t, they were replaced by other Republicans, because GOP turnout in 2010 was the best it had been since 2004. Marshall’s theory that Republicans have collapsed to something resembling 25% of the electorate is frankly inexplicable in light of the 2010 elections (and the 2012 recall election, in Wisconsin).

For an example of why this makes no sense, let’s look at one of the latest pieces of evidence outside the polling that supports a more Republican electorate: as Ed Morrissey notes, a recent study shows voter regstration across 8 states that register voters by party (FL, NC, CO, NV, NM, IA, PA & NH; states like OH & VA don’t) shows a net 1.3% increase in Republican registration since 2008 and a net 2.5% decrease in Democratic registration, while independent registration has boomed, up 14.4%. You can read that registration data to show that being an independent is still a lot more popular choice than being a Republican these days; you can’t sensibly read it to show that the growth of independent voters is the result of a decreasing base of Republican voters, and you can’t possibly read it to show that the total share of Republicans and independents is holding steady or declining relative to the Democrats.

I would be very shocked if Republicans are just 25% of the voters in this election. I bet Josh Marshall would too.

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COMMENTS

  • deltawing

    I think you’re misreading the lines on Marshall’s chart. Those are trend lines, not actual data points. They are most likely polynomials selected for a least squares fit. I would expect a discrepancy between the trend lines and the actual data points (the dots scattered on the graph).

    Just looking at the graph, there does appear to be a strong negative correlation between the change in R party ID and the change in I party ID. In other words, the R share decreases as the I share increases, which would seem to indicate some turnover between the two groups. I don’t know if it’s enough to account for Romney’s increased share of the independent vote, though.

  • quantguy

    Marshall’s thesis in particular does not line up with actual voter registration’s over the last year. That is to say, both his “cause” and “effect” are not supported by knowable data. To wit from the Orland Sentinal http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-10-02/news/os-voter-registration-groups-20121002_1_voter-registration-deadline-registration-efforts-voter-rolls;
    Still, both parties are bucking a strong tide against them. In the past four years, the number of voters registered “No Party Affiliation” — the principal category for unaligned voters — has increased by 282,000. That compares with a 73,000 increase in the number of registered Republicans and an actual decline of 140,000 in registered Democrats.

  • milehighcon

    Another excellent analysis. And I’m very glad you wrote this Dan.

    This was exactly what worried me the most: whether the Independents Romney is picking up are people who already would have voted for him (conservative former-Republicans who self-identify as independent) or new swing voters (moderates who self-identify as independent).

    The Tea Party movement represented a sea shift in the political universe, and converted a number of “Reagan Republicans/Clinton Democrats” and mainline Big-Government Republicans into fiscally-responsible Conservatives. Many of these people self-identify as independents, since they recognize that conservative values are bigger than what the Republican party has always represented. The big question is how many of these independents were self-identifying Republicans in 2008, and how many were previously Democrats or Independents.

    If these Independents that are surging for Romney represent swing-voters or former democrats, then we’re on solid ground. But if they represent former Republicans we would have gotten their votes anyway.

    Thank you for the in-depth analysis. Hopefully this will prove true, because I think it’s the best explanation for the out-of-whack state polls we’re seeing. Either way, it’s close enough that every vote counts!

  • streiff

    I think we reached that point concurrent with the 2004 campaign. Caller ID has killed telephone surveys. What we don’t know is how different is the generic population from that population that agrees to participate.

    When I was in the ad agency business you had to be careful when conducting focus groups because the specialty houses that recruited had a file of people who they knew would show up. This gave you an audience that was not “random” but mostly retirees or unemployed or stay at home moms who had become very familiar with focus groups and the process. We always specified our samples could not have participated in a focus group in the past 6 months. One wonders to what extent the phone numbers of people who have responded to polls in the past get repetitive calls because the pollsters know they will answer.

  • colonelflagg

    Interesting article. The shift describes me. The Republican Party has shown on more than one occasion that it’s not interested in my vote as a social conservative, and never more so than when it nominated Mitt Romney.

    I’m now a conservative, not a Republican, and as someone who cast his first vote for President for Ronaldus Magnus in 1984, it truly grieves me to say that. When the Republican Party runs conservatives, it can count on my vote. When it does not, I will find a conservative to vote for. It’s just that simple.

    When the Republican Party is willing to return to its base, it can have my money again. Not a moment before.

  • http://www.baseballcrank.com Dan McLaughlin

    Well, clearly, the lines are drawn from multiple data points (the different polls). I’m not sure whether that’s an unweighted average or a trendline or whatever, he doesn’t say. I’m just working with what he uses in his post.

  • jpalm

    So your BS to me means you are a troll and are voting for Obama.
    You honestly believe you are going to convince coservatives indepedents like myself to stay home.
    Jerk!

  • tyman

    The NRSC needs to run an ad with this…yesterday!

  • californiasquish

    Another factor that makes polls less trustworthy overall is cell phone usage. Last I heard, polling firms can only call land lines. So onlyone who has ‘cut the cord’ and is cell phone only would never be counted in a poll. I cut the cord years ago, and haven’t gotten a single call since. I believe the people who have ‘cut the cord’ are mostly urbanites and the younger generation.

  • streiff

    he does sound trollish.

  • tlhoward

    I was reading the Rasmussen website last night and its methodology. He explains that to act as a proxy for no land lines, his poll uses an online survey for a portion of those polled.

  • PowerToThePeople

    I cut the chord myself years ago, but I only dream of being young again. And I live way out in the country. But you are correct for the most part.

  • Viet71

    I was an Indie for 30 years but voted R. Then became R. Then became D so I could vote in a closed Dem primary. Party affiliation has NEVER mattered to me; only issues and values.

    My big hot-button issues are guns, Roe v. Wade, transfer of power from states to federal government.

  • CarolT

    I changed my voter registration from republican to unenrolled in MA in 2010. I mailed the form last week to change back to republican. I do not think they had it in time to change for November 6. I left the republican party because I did not like the way Michael Steele ran it. I am very happy with Priebus, he is doing a good job as RNC chairman. I see him all over FNC and I heard him say he went home for four hours on Halloween to take his kids out for Halloween.
    If I am an I now, I’m voting for Mitt no matter what and happy to do so.

  • JKnight

    I think some polling groups (Gallup comes to mind) actually do include cell phones are part of their sampling. Land lines are still predominant, however, and this is one of the Democratic arguments used everytime polling goes against them.

  • tyman

    I just read Rasmussen’s overview (I’m not a paying customer) of Ohio now being tied (Romney had led 50-48 all week). It says something that is quite contrary to what I’ve read about early voting. Rasmussen says that in his poll, 40% of Ohioans have already voted and that Obama leads 56-41.

    Rasmussen also says:

    “At the beginning of the week, Romney held a slight 50% to 48% advantage. It was the first time Romney has taken even a modest lead in the race of Ohio’s 18 Electoral College votes since late May, but the two candidates have been within two percentage points of one another since then.

    Forty percent (40%) of Ohio voters say they have already cast their ballots, and among these voters, the president has a comfortable 56% to 41% lead.

    Both candidates earn better than 90% support from voters in their respective parties. The president is ahead 50% to 41% among voters not affiliated with either major political party.”

    Huh?

  • tlhoward

    Yeah, I just saw that. Also, the big mouth Dick Morris must have too since he’s saying uh oh, trouble.
    40%? I hate early voting. Dan, help.

  • tyman

    Okay, I say something’s fishy with Rasmussen’s poll of early voters in Ohio (I can’t pull up the other comments, so I’m posting this by itself…sorry). He says that 40% of Ohio voters say they’ve already cast their ballots. As of Friday, Oct. 26, the SOS said 1.2 million had voted (real numbers). If we use 2008 numbers, 5,7 million, that’s 21%; to get 40%, over another million voters would have had to vote this week). Clearly, something in Rasmussen’s math is off or respondents simply aren’t being honest.

    I hope his numbers about Obama’s lead among early voters and the no party affiliation voters are way off, too!

  • tlhoward

    I just listened to the ABC on the hour news, 5:00 pm Pacific time (listening to Mark Levin show here in CA) and in referring to Obama’s day in Ohio, Ann Compton reporting said that 25% of Ohioans had voted, with the Dems in the lead of those. Don’t know how that squares with Rasmussen’s 40% number on his website.

  • deltawing

    I don’t put much stock in polls of early voting. There is simply too much uncertainty in those figures. The actual numbers coming from elections boards are telling the tale.

  • Kyle-MI

    It is all about as clear as mud. On the one hand, the projected party turnout numbers just don’t seem to match the expected enthusiasm. As your article points out, there does not seem to be a reasonable explanation for this phenomenaon. On the other hand, there does not seem to be a satisfying explanation for why the polls are wrong. They would almost have to deliberately rig the numbers to get the skewing they are getting.

  • dpmaine

    Early voting is probably going to be key to a future Presidential year victory, if it can be utilized correctly. Consider…

    The larger swing states – think Virgina and Florida – are rapidly fading from Republican grasp for national elections. In 2016 and 2012, there will be another million net more minorities in Florida, for example (or even more, but this assuming that the rate of the 2000-2010 decade does not continue). Of those, probably half aren’t likely voters, but the ones who are will vote 90%+ for Democrats (if black) or 60%+ for Democrats (if non-white Hispanic). Pres. GW Bushes narrow victory in Florida would *completely* overwhelmed by new minority voters.

    Considering that Gov. Romney should be wiping the floor with Pres. Obama based solely on the economy, the shifting demographics of the high-growth parts of the country are the only reason why Pres. Obama is even still in this thing.

    It could well be that 2012 or 20126 is the last Presidential election that the GOP has a shot at picking up soley by consolidating the white vote. It is likely that Gov. Romney will win the highest percentage of the white vote in recent history, and even with that, it may not be enough.

    And if nothing changes.. Texas will flip from Red to Blue sometime around 2020, and today’s GOP will not have any path to victory. (The good news is that the GOP is not static, and never has been, so there is hope that the GOP of 2020 is not the same as the GOP of today).

    Back to early voting. This is the key to being able to mobilize every last voter. The positive thing right now is that minority voters are still less motivated and less engaged than their majority counterparts. But Gov. Romney needs to win not 60% or 65% of white voters, he needs to win more like 70% of them. And that means scraping the barrel for every GOP voter possible. The GOP candidate needs to bank as many activist, engaged, high-information votes as possible, as early as possible, so that the national party, 3rd party groups, and the candidate can draw into voting places every last voter.

  • dpmaine

    The turnout among Democrats in 2010 was really, really bad. Plus the Tea Party helped the GOP-side turn out record numbers.

    The low-information robo-voters are what the problem are for the GOP in Ohio.

  • dpmaine

    This is a pure base motivator, and well timed by the Democrats. Very little time to have it make a mainstream impact on the race, but helpfully pushed to the activists who can make something of it.

  • dpmaine

    You can’t robo dial a cell phone. That means human interaction.

    However, with caller ID on every phone, most people don’t answer numbers they don’t know, and that is what really drives the cell phone problem. Human pollsters (like Gallup, for example) can still contact voters by cell phone.

  • dpmaine

    In comissioned scientific poll RFP’s I’ve seen there are parameters that detail when the voter can have been surveyed in the past. Most expensive option is of course “not in this cycle”.

  • dpmaine

    Don’t be surprised if a million people voted this week – I mean millions and millions vote on one day, right?

    A million people over a week is only 140k per day, spread out of over 2500 polling places, that’s not much at all.

  • tlhoward

    6:31 pm Pacific: just listened to Rove on Hannity. He is quite comfortable with the votes already cast in Ohio. that although there are more Dems votes already cast, there are many more GOP votes also having been cast early than in ’08 and Dems with fewer cast early than in ’08, for a GOP pick up, plus he’s happy with more registered GOPers than 4 years ago, and he’s is sure that previous pattern in Ohio will hold, that the GOP candidate will cream the Dem in election day voting, as McCain beat O. in election day voting in Ohio. He points out that some of the early Dem voting along the “river valley” is likely to be Dems who are voting for Romney. He also points out that many of the suburbs and exburbs that are heavily pop. by “affluent, moderate or what we call ‘soft Republicans’ who voted for Obama” are returning to the GOP by voting for Romney.

    He thinks the final Ohio vote difference will be somewhere around 110,000-100,000 and that we won’t know the final winner until the morning.

    He feels good about CO and VA (mentioned he’s only a bit worried about the heavy snowfall in coal country in VA that he feels will be mostly gone by Tuesday, but “whenever you’ve got snow, you worry some” but he thinks Romney has done a great job targeting certain ads to certain areas of VA and thinks VA will “return to its Republican roots.”

    I love listening to Rove talk about certain counties and cities. Yes, he had his whiteboard.

    He feels Romney will win (the election) as long as this weekend no mistakes are made and as long as the end game targets the right places.
    From what I could tell from his poker face and voice inflection, I think he feels the Romney target team has been making the right choices.
    Asked by Hannity if R will win Wisconsin, he said they have a good chance and that’s why O. has been spending time there and he maintains that Obama must be worried about Minnesota because he made an appearance at a WI stop that reached Minnesota.
    I have to admit. My stomach is churning and has been since the storm. (got a call about an hour ago from my cousin in Old Bridge, NJ. Her electricity is back up.) Also just saw a Red Cross ad from a very “Presidential” Obama that made me want to puke: We’re Americans. We come to the aid of other Americans. It’s what we DO!” –as always that signature emphasis on the last word. Yeah, right, just like you helped our guys in Libya.
    Tell you what, friends. If we lose this election, we have to mobilize as did the Tea Party and this time it’s the media we go after.

  • The_Gadfly

    It’s not just caller ID, it’s the pollsters themselves. I use to answer polls when I was called. I was particularly happy to answer political polls because I believe I’m a member of an under-representative group. But I’ve grown tired of it, particularly obvious push-polls and polls where there is no answer which best fits my position. My primary line is a land line (in fact a couple months ago I decided my personal cell was costing me to much, and canceled my contract early), but I’ve got caller ID. If I don’t know you’re number when you call, chances are I won’t answer.

  • The_Gadfly

    Side thought on push-polls and similar. One poll I did recently complete because my roommate answered the phone and handed it to me when they realized it was a poll was about The People’s Republic’s gambling question.

    Just last election MD passed a ballot question to approve slot machines at 5 locations in the state. In theory it’s supposed to save horse racing and keep money in the state that would otherwise go to West Virginia or Delaware. They Dems wouldn’t approve it when a Republican (libertarian) governor was in office, but were eager to get it through as soon as he was gone and they could feather their own nests. Only, it hasn’t worked out as well as they would have liked. Not enough people coming in to get scammed, and even worse, one county that was practically promised a casino didn’t get it from the commission. So this year they want to expand to a sixth location, plus add table games instead of just slots. They claim the tax revenues will be dedicated to education (and I could do a whole diary length rant on MD stupidity on that front without the gambling question). And most of the money being spent on either side of the question is coming either from the gambling interests that want to expand in MD or the gambling interests outside of MD who want to limit competition.

    All of that is stuff I knew from my own reading before hand. I’m not sure which side was running the poll I took, but they were clearly looking for how to frame their arguments for ads they were planning to run. They kept asking “would it change your opinion if you knew…”

    I was probably the worst person to answer those questions, because I’d already made up my mind since I already understood the issues involved. Where I’m coming down on it is, I don’t give a Rhett Butler about any promises they make (even if it is in the verbiage of the legislation, which it isn’t) about sending the money to the schools: they’ll just pull out other money that has been going to the schools. Although I’m generally opposed to gambling, that horse has already left the barn and I can’t get it back out of the state, plus table games tend to actually be more fair than slots at casinos so I don’t actually object to that part of it. But, I do know revenue at the existing casino’s didn’t meet expectations and I see no way adding a 6th casino helps that situation because they are also raising expected revenues BECAUSE of the additional casino. And on top of that, buried in the fine print are new tax breaks for the existing casinos because they weren’t making their expected revenue. So I’ll be voting against it on Tuesday.

  • The_Gadfly

    He sounds pretty much like Erick, except he’s taken it one step further. Erick is willing to register with the party and promote it even when its candidate disagrees with his principles (okay he’s made a few small exceptions to that, most prominently NY23 which we wound up losing anyway). This guy isn’t. Erick may be more practical, but I don’t read the poster as a troll.

  • The_Gadfly

    Yeah, that’s the bit that’s been bugging me about polling this year. While I do think the appropriators who run the Republican party in DC have taken some of the wind out of the Tea Party so it won’t look like 2010, I think 2008 is going to be the high watermark for the Dem party for the next couple of decades. So a greater Dem voter turnout in 2012 than 2008 is just plain stupid. Maybe right between the two most recent elections, maybe 1/3 the distance from the 2010 R high. but somewhere between those two points is where I’m expecting the actual voting number breakdowns to be.

  • tlhoward

    I don’t believe in early voting. I think there should be a 24 hour period during which people can go to the polls and I also think absentee ballots should be awarded as they once were–you had to apply for one and explain the reason for needing it.

  • tlhoward

    You live in Maryland? Just read someone from Maryland post on Ace of Spades’ blog that he saw three ads for Romney in the space of an hour. Wonder what’s up with that?

  • dpmaine

    Two things:

    a. Same media market as some parts of Virgina

    b. Same media market as Washington DC, meaning trying to get TV watchers in DC who live and vote in Virginia.

  • dpmaine

    > Tell you what, friends. If we lose this election, we have to mobilize
    as
    > did the Tea Party and this time it’s the media we go after.

    This worries me a lot also. The problem with going after the media is, they won’t cover it, so its all alternative media. And second, media is already partisan split almost across the dial. So “going after” has limited meaning.

  • http://rightwardjournal.com Jeff Swanson

    Purity tests and the idea that the party does not exactly mirror me as a criteria for support is ineffectively absolutist. We have, societally, decided that we work within a ‘take my toys and go home’ rubric.

    It seems that instead of working within the party to return these beliefs to prominence within said party, people just give up and leave. You have done this.

    You have walked away as have many for this same reason. You have given up on the single best hope to forward your agenda (mine too, mind you). Simply because the sum total of the party does not mirror your precise ideals, does not mean that in a broader sense, the party has cast them aside either.

    It has not.

    The social agenda may not be what it once was, and I agree, but it is not absent either.

    Leaving the party only lessens your chance for a robust social agenda. You work within the construct, not leave it.

    The Democrat speech writer that authored the line, “not because they are easy, but because they are hard.” hit the point on the head. Leaving tells people that you are not willing to fight for what you believe and have given up. Given up on doing the hard work. If, at your heart, you truly hold those beliefs dear, you will fight for them. Walking away does not do this.

    I too first voted in ’84 for Reagan and have seen a party that has varied greatly. A party that once all but eschewed things I see as important. Still, the Republican Party remains my best hope for projecting in the the political spectrum, what I believe.

  • The_Gadfly

    That’s easy: MD is solid blue and Romney (or at least his team) knows he can’t win here.* But a little less than half of the MD population lives in the DC metropolitan media market. That market includes Northern Virginia. So to advertise in Northern Virginia, he has to blanket DC and part of MD. And Romney needs to at least pick up some independents from Northern Virginia to win Virginia. With a fair chunk of defense jobs there, he has a decent shot at it.

    *The last time we had someone who wasn’t a Dem almost win the governor’s race they stuffed the ballot box and a Dem appointed judge ruled the challenger’s legal case invalid. Realizing it was a hopeless cause she didn’t appeal the judge’s decision.

  • The_Gadfly

    I got robocalls on my cell phone before I gave it up. Usually they were for car warranties or in Spanish and I had no idea what they were trying to sell me.

  • igor

    I don’t understand this comment. Colonelflagg perfectly describes me as well. I no longer vote for non-conservatives. Where the Republican Party nominates conservatives, I vote for them. Where they do not, I do not.

    That’s not trollish — that’s just reality.

    Also, this has nothing to do with “staying home” — I’ll be happily going to the polls and voting for conservatives, and not voting for non-conservatives. End of story.

    I’m not certain why it’s considered so threatening to other conservatives when certain other conservatives point out that they won’t be voting for non-conservatives.

  • davesinsanantonio

    Troll or not, not voting for a Republican candidate because he is not conservative enough will put the lefties in charge of whatever office is in question. That is stoooopid and self-destructive!!! You might as well poke a stick in your eye so you won’t see something you don’t like. We should always vote for the most constitutionally conservative candidate, no matter which party they claim, unless they are idiots who will vote the party line instead of their convictions. To not vote for a semi-conservative almost guarantees a liberal winner, and that is just as evil as voting for the liberal directly. So, swallow your pride and vote for whomever will do the best job for the country, and stop enhancing the enemy!!!!!

  • snappy101

    I think we all learned a lot from this election. If you want politicians to pander to you, either live in a swing state or claim to be Independent and not belonging to some political party. Otherwise, all we’re good for is campaign donations.

  • davesinsanantonio

    It’s easy. If they say they are Dims and have already voted they are lying, because lefties always lie.

  • reiska

    colonelflagg might need to clarify: he seems to be saying on the one hand he won’t vote Republican, but on the other hand he will vote for a Conservative; he did not say he would vote for Obama, so I don’t think he is a troll. A stance like that would be totally irrational.

  • shdwolf1

    Addressing voting for 3rd party candidates; I agree that a vote on election day for a 3rd party candidate, when that candidate has no chance of actually winning, is a wasted vote. What everyone needs to realize, and keep in mind, is that the goal is to keep the least desired candidate out of that office. You can stand on principles the rest of the year, but when you’re in that booth, you’d better be thinking what the actual consequences of your vote is going to be. If you want Obama out, you’d better be voting for the only candidate with a chance at beating him, or you’re effectively voting for Obama. If you support the ideals of another candidate, by all means let this election be a motivator to go out and try to spend the next 4 years convincing others of your candidate’s greater qualifications. Maybe the next election will see your preferred candidate in a position to make a difference, but the time to stand on principle is NOT on election day. My goal is to get Obama out of office, PERIOD! The only way I can do that is to vote for Romney. He’s not my first choice, but I’ve got four years to convince enough people that my preferred choice make it to the top of the ticket for the next election. Til then, a second or third choice will have to do to get Obama out of the White House.
    If you don’t like the candidate, do something about it for the next election, but don’t sit this one out on principle, or vote your conscience if that vote effectively means more of the same. I can’t say I don’t care how you vote, but please VOTE, it’s the only way you can effectively make your voice heard.

  • spolson

    well that is clear as mud.

  • TheCiscoShow

    I will not name call here because I can’t tell if this is troll or a true conservative that is heavy on social issues.
    By Social Issues I assume you are talking about Abortion , Gay rights etc.
    I happen to not care much about the ‘social’ issues. I am personally against abortion and ambivalent on Gay rights/marriage. I think the federal government should not be involved in social issues like that. I think if a state wiches to tackle such issues that is something that is ok under our constitution.
    But my main problem with those issues are that they are losers on the national level. Almost all of the ads Obama put up claiming a war on women are based on abortion (choice) rights. Even his stupid ads trying to say that Romney would take away birth control are based on the social issues.
    What I would tell my socially conservative friends is that if you want your issues addressed in a national level, you have to vote for republicans. Why? Because a vote for any party candidate but the republican might as well be for the democrat. If democrats are in control your issues are not only not on the table they are scoffrd at and ignored. Worse they are used as weapons against republicans oll over the country.
    I am very disgruntled with the economic policies of both parties because neither is willing to do what must be done to deal with deficits and spending, but for me to vote for the libertarian or constitutional party candidate would be the same as voting for Obama.
    For both social conservatives and fiscal conservatives the worst case senario is democrat control of any part of government.
    Think about that before you vote or decide not to.

  • ihateliberals

    I thnk Independents are just weak minded people. if you have to wait until the last minute to make up your mind than you are part of the problem with politics. i don’t care what party is in Power if you have to wait until Nov election day to decide then you really haven’t been apying attention to what hs been happeneing. In the last 6 months if Your guy hasn’t proven he needs to be elected then it isn’t really gong to happen in the last few days. I’m diferent inthat I vote for the philosphy of the Party Platform not for the man. It takes more than a president to change things Unless you were that Rare president Reagan. today becasue of the lack of true leadship among the candidates no matter the party it takes the President and congress to get things done. If congress and teh president are at odds with one another then the government comes to a stand still. That’s where we have been for the last two years, Thing is that in this case a stand still was a good thing. It slowed the spending craze of Congress and the President.

  • Bill S

    This colonelflagg idiot aside, the vast, vast majority of social conservatives are very reliable GOP voters. The only time that’s not the case is when a candidate goes out of their way to alienate us. Mitt Romney absolutely has NOT done that.

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  • rosenstern

    I think that is a really good point, there are techniques used in the advertising industry today that provide astonishingly detailed insights on consumer (on-line) behavior. I am sure that the Romney team had access to them/incorporated these techniques within their operation as well, but perhaps we need a review of how we elicit information on the electorate. To be short, we clearly misread the electorate. I can’t figure out if we had the wrong/bad data, or whether we interpreted the data incorrectly.

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