Let the tax cuts expire; that’s what they want. I don’t want the resulting lousy economy, but sometime we’ve got show America what their policies will produce. Just gives us that much more room in 4 years to cut and get a bigger boost for “our” economy.

I fear a repeat of the 1991 defecit negociations between Bush and House Speaker Foley. Foley and the Dems got their tax increases. Twenty two years later we’re still waiting for the spending cuts.

Sounds like a suicide pact. The problem with the excelltn Keyser Soze reference is that we would be killing our own children, and trust me, Obam would find an extra-Constitutional way around this that will render us out of the game forever.
No thanks.

What is your solution? Capitulation?

I’ve been thinking the same thing. The only real power Republicans have is to hold the line on the budget. If they try to save the tax cuts and defense spending they’re setting the stage for another budget buster that’ll end up being mostly social programs. Instead they express a willingness to pass Obama’s tax and spending changes only if he submits other changes to pay for it. That may also be an effective way of attacking Obamacare since there really isn’t a way to pay for it. Obama ran on a platform of raising taxes and claims the Bush tax cuts got us into the current crisis. Let him have his way on that.

No matter what happens, we will be blamed for it. No matter what happens, next election we will still be accused of racism, pushing granny from the cliff, etc. The Dems have completely poisoned the well. I don’t see any reason to compromise with them.

I’m with you 110%, Streiff. If President Obama wants to force his so-called mandate for higher taxes down the throats of the American people, then the GOP should let him do it– and let him take full responsibility for the disastrous fallout. We cannot let him hold us hostage on the Bush tax cuts, just so he can use them to beat us over the head with more spending.

Problem is the Dems are likely to respond to the expiring tax cuts with their own bill that will be HEAVY on redistribution and will target business creators with high taxes.

I don’t think we want to lose the Bush version of tax cuts only to have it replaced with the Reid version of tax “cuts”.

As far as being demagogued we will be demagogued regardless
of what we do or don’t do. It would be nice if for once we did the right thing knowing that the press and the Democrats won’t like us either way.

You should have stopped at “…should not compromise.” It never helps the GOP to compromise, so why do it? Let them sleep in the bed they made. At least there might be a slim chance this economic disaster waiting to happen will wake someone up. The alternative is to keep trying to lessen the effects AND still be labeled as obstructionist.

I think that is part of it. It would be silly to offer obstruction to a newly elected president.

“GOP should stand ready to walk away from negotiations and let events take their course.” I agree wholeheartedly and basically laid out the same argument in my “Let Them Eat Cake” post last night. Let the Prez and Dems own this mess they created and let the electorate feel the pain they voted for in two elections now. It’s the only way to ween the takers from the makers.
No compromise period. Now if someone could inform Boehner ASAP!

Exactly. So now would be the moment to actually push for something to fix the federal budget, like a balanced budge amendment. To me that is the minimum the house republicans should ask for.

Look at NSDD 51 and E. O. 13603, et sq. Plenty of authority to do whatever he wants. Then we won’t just look like a South American dictatorship, we might very well be one.

I don’t think BBA is a good idea at all, so count me out on that. The House has already passed a BBA but there is no way the Senate, President, or States are going to approve it.

completely agree. Once you shoot the wife and kids you have a lot of freedom.

Absolutely. No debt ceiling increase. It is after all unpatriotic.

This has to be the best solution I have read. I wish so very badly that our Republican leadership had this kind of courage and determination! However, sadly the Republican leadership in the house does not have the brass male parts nor the spine to endure what is required. They are political cowards and the Democrats know it. That is why the Democrats keep doing it and keep getting away with it.

Streiff – I am not sure that anyone in congress truly understands the phrase “real current year cuts in actual spending”. They still think that a planned increase of 8% that only increases 7% is a cut.

But I agree in principal. There must be real cuts meaning less this year than the year before.

But that is when the new congress takes over. These negotiations will happen before the end of the year. Puts Boehner in charge. But I agree, all TPC members should get together and overthrough Boehner. Mtichy the spineless needs to go as Senate Minority Leader as well. How about Rubio for that?

Obama doesn’t have to worry about giving away free stuff anymore. He just stood his last election, and now he’s in the legacy round. No telling what he might agree to.

Since we know Boehner is incapable of negotiating, don’t put him in a position to fail.

1.) He was offering something to the Democrats.
2.) The Democrats only are only interested in Tax Increases.
3.) We are talking about John “Give away the store” Boehner

Change the dynamic by shooting the [metaphoric] hostages. Well, that would certainly be one way to accomplish two things:
1. let the country, once and for all, experience the calamity that is full-contact liberalism.
2. let every citizen know that they can’t blame ‘the right’ anymore for their individual station in life. “You want it? You got it. Have fun”

I don’t think he is stupid enough to give away the store this early and framing the discussion the way he did leaves things open.

You are being unfair to John Boehner, right now as we speak he is loading up the House leadership positions with moderates and liberals so he can fight… oh, wait… never mind.

Insiders say Mr. Boehner will be reluctant
to make any moves that could spark a challenge on his side.

That makes it imperative for the real conservatives to go to Boehner now and push hard. Put someone with a spine in charge. Speaker of the house and he is from Ohio and we lost Ohio.

I would love this. I mean let’s force the issue now. People need to wake up. But Boehner won’t. He will do what politicians always do, come up with some convoluted short-term thing that looks like a compromise that some of his members can swallow and move forward onto the next thing. I am tired of these half-ass, temporary, kick the can down the road half-measures that politicians come up with. We need to go Mel Gibson, Lethal Weapon crazy.

Iran, Russia & China know what a weak dove Obama is but the Republican leadership can’t figure this out?

Please let the sequestration run its course. That shows Republicans are finally serious about small government.

Government shutdown is a loser. It plays into The Chosen One’s obstructionist propaganda.

If Republicans want to hold the house, they need to keep passing budgets and free market solutions which show what crazy liars Reid & Obama are. Show that we’re willing to pass solutions through both houses (Medical pricing visibility is a free market slap against Obamacare). America and the GOP can’t afford 4 more years of stalling tactics. Bush followed Clinton because House Republicans gave us a stronger economic base (before selling out).

I agree to a certain extent, but wouldn’t allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire also be playing into Obama’s hands? What if for instance, the Dems come out with a proposal of throwing everything on the table, similar to the “Grand Bargain”, with tax increases of those making upwards of 500k, and spending cuts to various other programs. We say no, Obama stands firm, we go over the cliff, then the Dems come back with “One of the biggest tax cuts in history for everyone making under 250k” on 1/1/13? How do we respond to that? If we stand our ground and say elections have consequences, so no deal unless the top 1% also receives a tax cut, not just the middle class, they will beat us over the head with that over and over and over for the next 2 years, and paint us as the party that refused a massive tax cut for the middle class.

Obama looks for a Photo op bounce as he got the last time he cut a last minute deal and saved the federal governmet from the brink. No one else gets a bounce and Obama plan it this way. Late ndeal in lame duck sessions. One president to the rescue, ain’t he bipartisan and all that.
:Let him sink us and take responsibility for once.

as long as you realize that as long as the Fed can generate money there is no danger of “national bankruptcy.”

I see what you’re saying and as I said, I agree with taking the fight to them, rather then the other way around. All I’m saying is, on 1/1/13 when the Dems come back with their “tax cut” for those making under 250k, what is the best politically sound response, without handing them a big tool to use against us for the rest of the year? If we say, “you’re right, we need more revenue, so no deal”, I think he’ll simply go to the stump and say, “Well I offered them a tax cut for the majority of Americans, they said no, they only care about the super rich, blah blah blah”.

I do see what you’re suggesting, I just think this could hurt us as much as them politically.

I don’t believe in coincidences.

In case you didn’t notice:

1. Passing something, like for example what it would take to repeal Medicare Part D is hard. It takes (potentially) 60 votes in the Senate and 218 votes in the House.

2. Allowing something to expire, like for example the Bush tax cuts, is easy. It takes 0 votes in the Senate and 0 votes in the House.

Constitutionally impossible. Obama cannot put in a new tax cut plan. All tax bills must originate in the House.

No, at best we’re going to be in for a very long decade. If The Big 0 gets his way for the next 2-4, it’ll be another millennium before liberty sees the light of day again. Which is pretty much the only reason I’m willing to back your otherwise horrible plan.

He would reintroduce part of them to play politics and hammer us until 2014 for not accepting his Obama Tax Cuts. If it was politically expedient for him to raise the taxes on the middle class, I don’t think he would hesitate one second. However, given how I think he may have the upper hand in this situation, since he’s not running again, if we go over the cliff and he proposes his tax cut, I think he’ll have us backed into a corner. How do we say no to a tax cut for the middle class, without the backlash from the public? The MSM and political pundits, on both sides, would crucify the House (not that they don’t already anyway, but it would more brutal then usual). I just don’t see a winning hand here.

So, after the Bush tax cuts expire, and after Obama puts new tax cuts on the table which only apply to the first $250,000 in income, you want Republican congressmen to vote against the tax cuts?

1. The President cannot introduce legislation. Period. Only a Representative or Senator can do that.

2. All tax bills have to originate in the House. This means they have to get past the Rules Committee and then they go to Ways and Means. And then to vote.

You are beclowning yourself. The Senate can amend a House appropriations bill with its own language but the bill must be a House bill. That is black letter Constitution.

Why do you think the House will pass such a bill before Jan 1? And why would you think that such a bill would survive conference?

You’re wrong. Utterly. “Raising revenue” is not the same thing as “increasing revenue”.

Buy a dictionary.

Abstain.
Because everyone knows that he will never be able to avoid the debt crisis, tax cuts or not, so let’s take neither credit nor blame for either the debt or tax cuts. Although I’m not sure he’ll bother to keep acting.
Are we here to win a news cycle or win a war against liberalism?

Give him everything he wants, anyway.

We’ll just abstain.

And keeping part of the Bush tax cuts would require him to acknowledge that they are not richie rich evil, if we can make the argument.

I stand by the plain meaning of words in the Constitution.

Not an accurate (literal) quote of the constitution.

If the bill does not raise revenue Article 1, Section 7 is silent on the matter. Meaning it is not prohibited.

That is true. Just as Democrats can erase the Bush tax cuts without a vote, so can the Republicans get the cuts in the sequestration without taking action.

I really don’t know anything about the Illuminati.
Whatever happened to Stonewall Jackson?

I agree.The next in line is Eric Cantor, not much change, Not a word of a challenge to either. 10 seats? Media said 5 or 6 and maybe even pick ups by Republicans. That is disgusting.

The Senate has been doing this, taking a House tax bill, gutting it and replacing it with a totally different bill, for longer than I have been alive.

Speaking of Newt I read a headline from his newsletter that Boehner should claim a ‘joint mandate’ or something like that. It is bold but so is Newt with his ideas. I miss him as Speaker. We could use a larger than life Speaker.
Boehner has power as he controls the majoritarian chamber still and can initiate asppropriations and stand up to Obama and Reid. But they will be dysfunctional by our standards and end with with no budget but more CRs and debt ceiling deals in 2013.
They do only as much as they must. What a way to fund the federal government.

They rely on our confusion and sense of the inevitable that a last minute patch will fix what ever is the crisis. Media bias is such that debt, budgets are not concerns to do a drumbeat for proper action.

Lol, I’ve heard that same line about MI! What ever happened to gekster?? Anyway, throw Boehner out now…he’s caving before the negotiations have begun! Trump, please send a copy of “The Art of Negotiating” quickly!

Surely you jest about the Illuminati?? It’s possible and even probable but never thought of it in this context

Anything can be changed retroactively.

In this case, it would be the entire congress kicking the ball down the road…

‘Since we can’t pass either side’s version, we’re going to just change the dates in these laws, and make it retroactive’….

Fiscal cliff moved till after the *next* election, shuffle cards, play another hand…

It may not be the most desirable option – and there is a tad bit of appeal to me in saying ‘Obama baked this cake, let’s make him eat it’ on the cliff…

But in reality, I expect yet another ‘patch’… It’s what they’ve done every other time ‘tough’ fiscal questions came to a head in this administration… Why do you think Obama hasn’t been able to get his tax-hike through?

Because every time he has an oppertunity, there’s just enough stuff he wants done ‘more’ being held hostage (eg, unemployment benefits, etc) that a deal is struck to push it all down the line a year or two.

Even if the Senate replaces language, the resulting bill still has to pass the House.

The reason the ‘language game’ worked for Obamacare, is that the House was Democrat-run back then….

True that that punt is all they- both parties, seem to accomplish. we need Lucy to pull the football out from both parties! All I ask is for Boehner to shut up and wait to hear the Prez and Reid make their offer before he capitualates…is that too much to ask for the Speaker??? Again, he needs negotiating 101 skills!

It was part of the deal to get *some* tax-cuts through the 2000-vintage 50/50 Senate, and get us out of the Clinton (.com) recession.

Even with that ‘deal’ the tax cuts still pushed Jim Jeffords to switch parties, and paved the way for Medicare D

Weird stuff on RedStated comments Viet71. I read your comment an hour or two ago and yet it’s time stamped 2 minutes ago. I even “voted” for it then as I liked your idea.

No, it’s to let Numenor sink while we flee to Middle Earth.

I agree – hit the gas and get it over with. Best idea I have heard so far.

But printing money is only a temporary fix before the hyperinflation kicks in. Maybe not technically bankruptcy, but a very nasty situation that results when a government gets so far into debt that no one will loan it more money.

You can watch the ‘Usual Suspects” full video on youtube for free here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmP502eBEIg

The VERY First step is for the Caucus to elect a Speaker who is endowed with a backbone in the first place. Paul Ryan would be a fun first choice.

Time to play hardball with the Dems. Voters have a short memory. The Defense Dept. budget is filled with institutionally wasteful programs. The knee jerk reaction at Defense is to cry that we’re gutting the military but the DOD is now analogous to GM. During the GM bankruptcy someone commented that GM had become a health insurance delivery company that happened to make cars. The DOD and many other government departments are engaging in activities that are far outside their area. This approach will accomplish our goals from the House. Remember: the United States government is not the United Way.

The fatal flaw is assuming Boehner has a spine and will walk away.

This is the absolute best thinking I’ve seen since the election. Streiff, you are amazing.
I wish Boehner and his ilk had half the sense that you have. I am retaining your post as a daily reminder of the way to fight this regime through the next four years – if it lasts
that long. Thank you.

He doesn’t need to introduce it. It doesn’t need to pass for the democrats to gain political benefit. In fact, not only would Obama have more money to spend if it doesn’t pass or if republicans refused to introduce it, democrats could then run on the middle class tax cut that republicans went on record refusing to bring to a vote and use it as a central theme to retake the House in 2014. Obama merely needs to point out that “obstructionist” republicans suddenly refuse to support a tax cut when it helps the middle class.

In the meantime, he gets to spend the extra revenue.

Win/win for democrats and big government.

LET. IT. BURN. Full stop.

Bush tax cuts have to go. Not only will they continue to be a loser politically, eliminating them will not help the economy or fix our budget problems. But letting them go will shoot down Krugman-style rhetoric and will be a compromise position we can draw a narrative from.
In general, our approach should be to give Obama enough economic rope to hang himself. If we really beleive what we said about his poor understanding of economics, then he will surely fail if given enough rope. Sorry but that means we will suck eggs for a while but that is coming anyway I think. Better he get the blame than us.

I agree with the premise, but Obama’s inability to introduce a tax bill does not prevent him, the Dems, and the MSM from hammering the piss out of the GOP for raising taxes on the “middle class” and there’s all the fuel that’s needed to lose the House in 2014. I think it is suicide.

I fully agree on the idea of letting the Dems have what they want (to some extent) to prove how wrong most of their policies are for the country. Instead of letting all the tax cuts expire, the GOP needs to put together a plan that allows the Dems to tax the “evil rich”, but not tax the small businesses that file as individuals.

This way, the GOP takes the offensive on the tax issue and puts the Dems in a position to say they want to raise taxes on small business (which is almost as bad as saying tax the middle class), not just the millionaires and billionaires as they claim.

The revenues from taxing the over $250,000 is not going to make a dent in the debt, especially if you take out the businesses. This is something we conservatives can’t seem to get Obama voters to understand and there’s nothing like live data. I’d argue to maybe make it $500,000 or $1M since it still appeases the masses that want to stick it to the rich and $250,000 isn’t super rich in some areas. I see this as a small give on taxes, and the super-rich seem to pour a lot of support to Obama anyway.

The GOP can then demand spending cuts for this revenue increase and really start hammering home on getting to a balanced budget. And nobody watches C-SPAN, let the American people know the GOP is compromising and working on solutions by getting the word out in any way possible. Hiding behind the GOP’s stance of “no tax cuts for the wealthy” has enabled the Dems to avoid any real discussion about reducing spending and they’ve been able to float ideas they won’t support like $10 of cuts for $1 of revenue.

There’s more I’d like to see the GOP do, but I’m already long-winded enough. Its time to get agressive and make the Dems show the American people what they really stand for without shooting ourselves in the foot.

this is silly.

“All tax bills have to originate in the house” — this has already been circumvented. The Senate takes a spending bill passed by the House, then “amends” it by completely replacing the title and the contents — everything except the bill number. Now they can proceed under the legal fiction that this spending bill originated in the House and send it back to the House for reconciliation. This is exactly how they passed Obamacare — they took HR3590, a spending bill to benefit veterans — and replaced it with the Obamacare text.