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The CBO Says The Fiscal Cliff Is A Good Thing

By: streiff (Diary)  |  November 9th, 2012 at 01:14 PM  | 

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One of the things the left is really go about is coming up with catchy slogans. Some of them are rather unfortunate, like calling your plan to stamp out inflation the Moral Equivalent of War (MEOW), some are ridiculous, like the War on Women, but the fact remains that if you can name something you go a long way towards determining how people view the subject. (As an aside, none of these compare with naming your terrorist group the Moro Independent Liberation Front or MILF. Don’t they have porn in the Philippines?) Did FDR illegally arm Great Britain in violation of the Neutrality Act and the expressed will of Congress? Or did the United States become the Arsenal of Democracy?

The first major test for John Boehner and the GOP caucus in the upcoming lame duck session of Congress will be confronting a newly elected and freshly emboldened Barack Hussein Obama over a series of issues that have been named by the left and its stenographers in the media as the “Fiscal Cliff.”

Powerful imagery, eh.  Going over a cliff. But is that really what will happen.

Yesterday I proposed that the GOP should simply walk away from negotiations. If they do the Democrats will get what they want: tax increases. And we will get what we want: spending cuts. If we negotiate we are nearly guaranteed that the GOP will give the Democrats the tax increases and extract absolutely nothing in return.

To be clear here, I consider the 2013 sequestration to be superior to any “Grand Bargain” likely to be struck for the simple reason that a “Grand Bargain” will take place over a decade. The sequestration by contrast happens in 2013 and though some of it is blue smoke and mirrors it contains a lot of real cuts.

First a quick recap of what is involved. On January 1 the following changes occur in existing tax policy.

The tax rate reductions implemented by President Bush in 2001 and 2003 will expire. This will increase taxes on Americans, or as the Democrats would say it increases the government’s income, by $281 billion.  This means the average household will pay between $60 and $400 per month in additional taxes, depending upon your income. Go here for a detailed table of how the rates would change and here for what it means state by state. The states most heavily hit would be CT, NY, NJ, MA, and CA, in order.

Some objected yesterday that this would cause a stock market crash. That is patent nonsense. The equities market is valued in the tens of trillions of dollars (over a hundred trillion if you consider world markets). $281 billion transferred from consumers to the government, but still spent on goods and services provided by companies listed on the NYSE and NASDAQ will have no effect.

The payroll tax holiday enacted in 2010 will expire increasing payroll taxes by 2 points.  For someone earning $50K per year this means you will lose $19 per week. All told this increases taxes by $115 billion. As preserving Social Security and Medicare are things everyone is interested in, this should go away by acclamation.

The Alternative Minimum Tax will expand as a the eligibility will ensnare more taxpayers. It will raise about $40 billion and will impact about 27 million taxpayers. The good news is that if your make $50K and live alone you are now considered wealthy enough to pay the same tax penalty as millionaires. Welcome to the 1%, bitches.

Extended unemployment benefits will expire decreasing government outlays by $34 billion. This will undoubtedly cause some hardship. An estimated 2 million people will lose their benefits from this program.

Obamacare will come into effect and begin collecting taxes, this will increase government revenues by $24 billion.

The “doc fix” for Medicare will expire reducing government outlays by $14 billion. (This will be fun to watch play out as Obamacare promised a permanent “doc fix” as a way of buying the American Medical Association.)

And finally some $78 billion in spending authority for 2013 will be cut.

Let’s not fool ourselves here. The Democrats are interested in exactly two parts of this deal. First, they want to preserve the $78 billion in spending. Second, they would like to keep the extended unemployment benefits. They have no interests in curbing the taxation portion of the problem. We know they really don’t believe that tax rates have an impact on economic policy. For instance, this from well known imbecile and economic illiterate Chuck Schumer:

 Boehner said he could agree to a deficit reduction agreement that raises new federal revenues but he said those funds must come from economic growth spurred by tax reform. Republicans, including members of the Senate’s Gang of Eight, have argued that adequate revenues can be raised through tax reform without increasing the net rates of taxation.

Schumer derided the theory that substantial revenues can be raised without increasing the tax burden on the wealthy.

“Part of his speech he talked about dynamic scoring, this idea if you cut taxes you increase revenues,” Schumer said.

“It’s about time we debunked that myth, it’s a Rumpelstiltskin fairy tale, dynamic scoring. You may remember Rumpelstiltskin was the fairy tale figure who turned straw into gold,” he added, making reference to the popular German children’s tale from the 19th century.

When one looks at this one sees some pain but nothing that couldn’t be sustained. Quite honestly, one lesson we should learn from this is to never, ever, ever again get talked into a temporary change in tax rates. That is lunacy because we’re going to end up giving away a lot of stuff in the future, and on a permanent basis, to preserve that which was supposed to be temporary.

So my recommendation remains. The GOP should simply walk away from this. As it turns out I’m not alone. The Congressional Budget Office has released a report today on the “Fiscal Cliff”. What do they have to say?

 Substantial changes to tax and spending policies are scheduled to take effect in January 2013, significantly reducing the federal budget deficit. According to CBO’s projections, if all of that fiscal tightening occurs, real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product (GDP) will drop by 0.5 percent in 2013 (as measured by the change from the fourth quarter of 2012 to the fourth quarter of 2013)—reflecting a decline in the first half of the year and renewed growth at a modest pace later in the year. That contraction of the economy will cause employment to decline and the unemployment rate to rise to 9.1 percent in the fourth quarter of 2013. After next year, by the agency’s estimates, economic growth will pick up, and the labor market will strengthen, returning output to its potential level (reflecting a high rate of use of labor and capital) and shrinking the unemployment rate to 5.5 percent by 2018. [Emphasis mine.]

Output would be greater and unemployment lower in the next few years if some or all of the fiscal tightening scheduled under current law—sometimes called the fiscal cliff—was removed. However, CBO expects that even if all of the fiscal tightening was eliminated, the economy would remain below its potential and the unemployment rate would remain higher than usual for some time. Moreover, if the fiscal tightening was removed and the policies that are currently in effect were kept in place indefinitely, a continued surge in federal debt during the rest of this decade and beyond would raise the risk of a fiscal crisis (in which the government would lose the ability to borrow money at affordable interest rates) and would eventually reduce the nation’s output and income below what would occur if the fiscal tightening was allowed to take place as currently set by law.

The “Fiscal Cliff” is not a cliff, it is a phrase that is being used to prepare the political battlefield to beat the GOP into unpalatable and unnecessary concessions. It is not only not a cliff, it isn’t even a speed bump. My recommendation is not about burning the house down to make the Democrats look bad. Though I can’t help but note that their constituency gets hit much harder if we walk away than does ours. It is about the long term health of the nation. As the CBO points out, the economy will be stronger in the long run if no agreement is reached. We should listen to their advice and walk away.

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  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    The fiscal cliff is a real and serious problem in one respect: The tax increases will tip our weak economy into a recession.

    The fiscal cliff is the result of tax increases that Obama proposes in combination with the massive deficits and debt additions that are threatening our credit rating and are unsustainable.Obama’s tax increases (both proposed and in Obamacare) are already having an impact,its why the market is down, and now prospects for a recession are
    increasing.

    The way out is to stop the tax increases (and that includes both repealing the Obamacare tax increases and making the Bush tax rates permanent), and cut the spending ASAP with a credible plan on entitlement and budget reform that gets us to balance over future years.

    This was done in the 1920s and 1990s. A large reduction in the deficit through spending cuts is fine: It was done in 1920s by Harding, when he cut spending by one-third and kicked off the 1920s booms and GOP Congress cut the deficit by $100 billion in FY1995 on the way to a balanced budget and the economy grew.

    Obama dug this hole because he grew the Government too much. Obama has created a Government Bubble just like the Housing bubble of 8 years ago, and the result will be very ugly if not reversed. The ONLY way to reverse it is to repeal Obamacare, cut the spending NOW and put the Government on a diet. tax increases will only worsen out misery and put us in the kind of death spiral Greece is in.

  • http://twostepstotheright.blogspot.com/ D.T. Dickinson

    Honestly, what more can be said? You set up your argument yesterday (once again, fantastic job), and this is just icing on the cake. I second, third, fourth…etc, etc.

  • retrocon87

    If tax increases are all of a sudden an effective way to fix a deficit, frankly I’m stunned that a “poster at a Severely Conservative webstie like RS.com would even imply such sophist puffery” that the idea of supply-side economics should go completely out the window.

  • streiff

    I’m trying to grasp your point and have concluded you probably don’t have one.

    1. You have no idea of my fiscal positions which is pretty obvious from your comment.
    2. Free market conservatism has never said a tax increase will cause the stock market to collapse, especially an increase that brings us back to where we were at the height of the stock market in 1999.
    3. Don’t snark be because I’m not in the mood for stupid, uninformed, didn’t-bother-to-read-the-post-or-links snark.

  • kentucky

    “Some objected yesterday that this would cause a stock market crash. That
    is patent nonsense. The equities market is valued in the tens of
    trillions of dollars (over a hundred trillion if you consider world
    markets). $281 billion transferred from consumers to the government, but
    still spent on goods and services provided by companies listed on the
    NYSE and NASDAQ will have no effect.”

    I don’t think this is quite correct, unless the government is going to enact $281 billion in additional spending. Right now the government is spending the same amount it would spend regardless of whether the tax cuts are in effect. Consumers are using that $281 billion on goods and services provided by companies on the NYSE and NASDAQ. Taking the money away from consumers and giving to the government doesn’t mean the government begins spending the money. It is already spending the money. That’s why the cliff results in a negative GDP growth.

    Anyway, sign me up for going over the fiscal cliff, unless we can get meaningful tax reform that is the same as the fiscal cliff in the short term with positive effects to come later. A quarter or two of -.05 GDP is a small price to pay if we can avoid becoming the next Greece or Spain, although much more than the cliff will be required.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    It only works to a point. Even the Laffer curve itself shows that. THis situation is brought to you by the Letter “O” and the number $16Tr.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    I’m a bit of a math geek, I can’t help myself. I look at those curve thingys and actually calculate 1st and 2nd derivitives in my head. I can’t stand a discussion of Laffer w/o effective reference of where the individual thinks we are on the parabola. It makes a big honking difference with that curve in particular. /End rant. Sorry amigo.

  • deltawing

    How is going back into recession a small price to pay? Democrats will make the claim that it resulted from Republican obstructionism, and they will almost certainly win that argument. The implications for the 2014 midterms are pretty obvious.

  • kentucky

    Isn’t it just a matter of the government needing to borrow less because of increased tax receipts? If $3.5 trillion is spent this year with $2.5 trillion in tax receipts, and next year $3.5 trillion is spent with $2.718 trillion in tax receipts, the government isn’t increasing the amount it spends on goods and services.

  • sbradsha

    There’s blame for excess spending that can be spread around. There needs to be significantly more discipline from all involved. Note the Economist post below.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/11/daily-chart

  • streiff

    this is not a Tea Party site. If you want to find out their position I suggest you visit one. Many of us find Norquist to be a loathsome islamofascist fellow traveler and could care less about what he thinks.

  • streiff

    if the CBO is correct you have long term, by that I mean decades, of 8% unemployment and stagnation if the status quo remains. What do you think the implications are for the midterms when the House folds and gives Obama all his spending and tax hikes on the top earners. I’d much rather our caucus face their voters having held firm than having caved.

  • jpkoch

    This advice also has another consequence. It will remove the over-generous safety net Obama built around a large segment of our population. Many voters cared little for such pedestrian things as chronically high unemployment, historic defeicts, and falling incomes because they were on the receiving end of tens of thousands of dollars of federal largress. Healthy young men recieving a generous monthly unemployment check and food stamps would finally be forced to look for a job, and re-discover the joys of poverty and working 3 part time jobs (if they’re lucky enough to find them).

  • kentucky

    First of all, Democrats are going to blame everything on the House GOP and George W. Bush no matter what. But to the point about recession being a small price to pay, it is a matter of scale. We’re going into a recession and there isn’t much we can do about it at this point. It is cooked in. It is only a matter of how quick we recover and the strength of that recovery.

  • retrocon87

    there are about a million different factors that go into economic growth… to totally isolate out the effects of tax policy and to solve for “exactly what the rate of change on growth would be with respect to a change in tax policy and where exactly the inflection point would be as a second derivative to it” is 100% impossible.

  • jpkoch

    Bush41 tried just that prescription and got burned. We don’t refer to the 1991 tax increases as the Foley Tax Increases, but as the Bush Tax increases. The promised spending cuts never materialized.

  • streiff

    No one said any of what you said. Don’t make up stuff and attribute it to me.

  • Repair_Man_Jack

    Intrestingly it doesn’t bear on the topic at hand. What will we do about this deficit? Who cares who is to blame? What will be done to fix the issue? The Fiscal Cliff (TM) is a possible solution. Come up w/ a better one, and you too can win a Nobel Prize in economics!

  • retrocon87

    I suppose that’ll be news to Erick who’s constantly introduced on CNN as a “prominent tea party activist and editor of the leading tea party blog redstate.com”……….

  • APA Guy

    But the public BEGGED for this FT. We didn’t win the mandate, Obama did…and he campaigned on letting the Bush tax cuts expire. We have no obligation to get in his way…let the country eat the cake Obama is making them.

  • streiff

    we’re going to get blamed anyway. If we walk away our guys can face their constituents from a matter of principle and survive 2014 easily. About 20 of our people were defeated so it doesn’t make any difference to them. The important thing is putting steel in our caucus.

  • kirkaiya

    Weirdly, I hear people on both the left and right saying the same thing – that “going over the cliff” (which isn’t really a cliff, as you pointed out) is better than trying to strike some grand bargain that gives away too much. Paul Krugman himself is urging the President not to do any compromise, and let the cuts fall where they’re scheduled to fall.

    So maybe, finally, there is some agreement here that for once, politicians should simply do nothing. The Dems get their tax-increases, the Republicans get their spending cuts, the deficit is slashed to a fraction of it’s current bloated size by 2014, and long-term growth would be better.

    I’m neither a Republican nor a Democrat, but this actually makes a great deal of sense to me – the two sides can’t agree on anything, and for once they can simply do nothing, and a “compromise” is the default. I’m very curious to see what happens in the capital markets if this does happen – earthquake, or just minor tremors…?

  • booth

    This is pretty amazing. I’m a moderate democrat who voted for Obama and I substantially agree with Streiff, who I thought was some kind of fascist or something (no offense).

    The only modification I’d have to the fiscal cliff as policy is maybe an amendment to halve the effect in the first year, with full implementation in the second year. Halve being, half the bush tax cuts still in effect, half the cuts implemented, etc. Just to ease things into it and reduce the shock value, while still getting to a lower deficit.

  • streiff

    a fascist? I like fans as much as the next guy but I haven’t been called a fascist since 2005 or so on Democratic Underground and Sadly No. Now you say I’ve lost my mojo.

  • Jack_Savage

    Please, PLEASE don’t throw us in the briar patch. PLEASE.

  • Viet71

    I’m all for taking the Cliff.

    I’ll wind up paying a bunch more taxes, but I’ll survive.

    Individuals and couples making < $100,000 will be utterly shafted by increased withholding. I'll feel for them.

    The consumer-based economy will take jolt. Uncertainty will cause business and investment planning decisions to be put on hold.

    Yeah, I'll take the Cliff. It won't be pretty. But maybe it will cause somnolent Americans to wake up and start taking responsibility for themselves and their governments.

  • booth

    Hah. Mostly because about 1/3 of the times I check out RS, I see you banning someone and using IMO excessive language about liberals. Not that the reverse doesn’t exist on liberal blogs.

    Anyways nice writeup.

  • APA Guy

    Blame REPUBLICANS? The country voted Democrats into office…let them answer for the mess they will create. I’m tired of conservatives being asked to bail out idiot voters who put dangerous people in office. Let them eat moldy cake.

  • sbradsha

    Like I said it is a historical take on where we came from. I’d say from the some discussions I’ve seen on this site the word blame gets used quite a bit so remembering what happened before might just (I hope) give us the wisdom not to repeat it.

    Personally I rather like the idea proposed of using the fiscal cliff either on automatic or as a lever to compromise with some other package of spending cuts and revenue tweaks. The CBO 2012 “Extended Baseline Scenario” shows how a little change now goes a long way.

  • checkmate2012

    streiff is right again! For anyone on the fence about going over the cliff, speed-bump as it truly is, watch King O’s condescending speech he gave today with the obligatory average joe Americans used as props. There was not one sign that he is willing to compromise, since he has no intention of doing so, and he was his usual mean, arrogant self with his nose up in the air. You’d think he’d be happy he just won re-relection but he’s not since he actually has to work instead of campaign for once.

    As streiff stated, this is a speed bump. For perspective, the spending cuts are $136 Billion for 2013, 0.8% of GDP. In 2012, the gov. spent $3.8 Trillion or $10.5 Billion/day. So the cuts amount to about 13 days of spending at this years spending rates.

    The tax increases total $532 Billion, 3.1% of GDP. So the total of spending cuts and taxes increases are $668 Billion, 4% of GDP which is about 64 days at today’s spending rate. This is hardly worth negotiating another “grand bargain” just to get snookered by the Dems again.

    There is only one way out of this mess that Congress passed and the president signed into law: let the chips fall as sequestion calls for or find $1.2 T in targeted deficit reductions. Recall the law required either the approval of $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years, or the across-the-board cuts in domestic and military spending at the end of 2012.

    Boehner should do nothing or offer to work with the Dems to find $1.2T in a targeted fashion to look like a compromiser….which didn’t happen before and won’t happen now. But hey, he can at least pretend to be a magnanimous compromiser which is more than can be said for the prez.

  • APA Guy

    555

  • JSobieski

    The people most shafted by the tax increases from the fiscal cliff will be all of the college graduate 20 somethings who are still underemployed. The economic stagnation will prolong their failure to launch into a professional job. Of course, those folks are the people responsible for Obama’s victory . . . . so I don’t care much . . . and am purposely trying not to care at all.

  • alaskaescapeartist

    From the first line of this post, I wondered aloud…. “Wouldn’t it be great if Streiff could somehow incorporate “bitches” into this posting”.

    It’s a great day.

  • JSobieski

    You are apparently unfamiliar with game theory and tactical manuevering. Even Patten engaged in a tactical retreat from time to time to set up a better future opportunity. We aren’t going to “get” anything out of negotiations except for the removal of spending cuts in the future in exchange for fingerprints and dirty hands on immediate tax increases now. Thus, we are better off risking some short term pain instead of guaranteeing long term destruction. I say accept the cliff as inevitable, and see if there is any hope for something better. Do NOT pressure our reps to avoid the cliff.

  • texashistorian

    I’ll take it over caving, but it’s going to hurt. My taxes will effectively double because of this. However, if that is the price to pay for illustrating in the clearest of terms the bankruptcy of the liberal democrat worldview, it’s worth it. What I fear most, however, is watching my taxes double and then watching the GOP piss away any advantage that might accrue to them over this.

  • texashistorian

    What’s even funnier is that Reagan, Laffer, et al. were only reflecting what Andrew Mellon proved in the 1920s, one of the greatest periods of growth in U.S. history. This is nothing new. Neither is the ability of Progressives to f*** it all up- see Hoover, Herbert.

  • http://scipio62.livejournal.com/ scipio62

    You are so right!

  • garfieldjl

    Unfortunately we’re going to get hit with the brunt of their idiocy too, the problem is that people aren’t realizing that the mainstream media has been lieing to them.

  • garfieldjl

    You do realize that the year our government had its highest intake of revenue was 2007, right?
    Guessing you didn’t know that, but that kinda debunks the entire argument when you had all that revenue coming in while the Bush tax rates were in effect.

  • garfieldjl

    The reason unemployment will drop is because people will give up and stop looking.

  • commonsenseobserver

    And if it does make the stock market crash- elections have consequences.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Let them see what Bush did for them, and what Obama is doing to them.

  • commonsenseobserver

    You think Obama will agree to Harding-style policies?

    I disagree with Streiff. It’s no longer just about fiscal matters. It’s a political issue now, and the American electorate must start learning that elections have consequences. If Obama wants spending increases, he ought to get them. If he wants huge tax hikes, give it to him.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Why are you here anyway?

  • commonsenseobserver

    Well, we should just abstain and give them everything they want.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Well, he did promise to cut spending, but he also did promise lots of “investments”. What do we do about those?

  • Bill S

    Good question.

  • warrior300

    Politically, the shock value is just what you don’t want to reduce.

  • warrior300

    Not that the GOP knows how to maneuver the media, but it would take a real framing of the issue. We are giving the President what he wants, and what he agreed to, and hammer the point home. Hell, use some of that left over campaign money that was wasted, and create some intelligent ads that make it clear who owns the fiscal cliff once the tax cuts expire. Do some educating for a change. Appear of the Sunday morning news programs, and have our talking points ready, by taking on any leftist journalists who tries to frame it differently. Newt has been the only Republican who has had the balls to take on the Press.

  • warrior300

    Where is the so-called Tea Party? There should be so much united pressure by the millions brought upon Boehner and McConnell that they should be left trembling in their shoes, if they dared to do otherwise.

  • dd8a460a

    I don’t see the need to do anything about this so called “cliff”. The CBO saying the ending of lowering taxes will cause a recession is our point.

  • dewitt70

    Punishing the other guy’s base is what Democrats do. We can’t abandon our principles like this.

  • dewitt70

    We’re supposed to be happy warriors. Now we’re becoming the Left’s stereotype of “Let the country be damned.”

  • dewitt70

    “Is it the Tea Party’s duty to save the American public from the consequences of their vote?” No, it’s the patriot’s. If your kid got behind the wheel fifteen beers deep, would you say, “Let him own the consequences”?

  • commonsenseobserver

    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”

  • streiff

    I read idiocy like this and I weep.

    1. We only abandon our principles is we negotiate them away.

    2. It obviously escaped your notice that we lost the presidential race, we have a smaller number of Senators, and we lost House seats. All of that says we are not in a position to make demands and accomplish anything other than a beclowning.

    3. Our principle is fiscal sanity, not tax cuts. I am not Grover Norquist. I don’t give a flying rat’s patootie about burning down my house over tax rates especially over the rate increase in question. I worked for many years under that rate and did okay, I’ll do okay under it again.

    3. The question facing us is whether extending the tax cuts another couple of years and being demagogued on it in 2014 is worth giving up spending cuts. I don’t think it is.

    As a point of order, don’t ever come in here and lecture us on what our principles are.

  • aeaeren

    I am for doing nothing but let’s not kid ourselves this isn’t going to be a US recession this will be a WORLD WIDE recession. Europe is right on the edge now and if go over we will take them with us. OH WAIT that means MORE LIBERALS feel the pain, never mind bring it on. It will hurt for me but my family will work through it and the idiots who want the goodies or want to be compassionate while it is SOMEONE else’s money need to PAY for it. I know tons of these people at work who voted because Romney the devil will take away my choice and Romney is only for the Rich and Bush did this and that and man that Obama is for the little people but most of them don’t pay taxes because they fall in the lower brackets that will be effected if they expire. I get to say “About those Bush Tax cuts for the Rich…. Ya maybe next time you will LISTEN to us, oh and welcome to the contributing class! Let’s see how long you feel about being “compassionate” now that it is your money also and you watch your idols waste most of it!”

  • APA Guy

    dewitt70, THE COUNTRY VOTED FOR THIS. I’m not quite sure why you trust the wisdom of the American people so little. Aren’t we always railing against government substituting its judgment for the will of the people? The will of the people = higher taxes and the spending cuts everyone agreed to. Let it ride.

  • APA Guy

    If my kid drives drunk, he will own the consequences of putting his and every other driver’s life at risk…damn straight.

    The American public will own this as surely as the Democrats will…and when the public pulls its head out of its a**, they’ll run to conservatism…just as Great Britain did with Margaret Thatcher.

  • APA Guy

    NOTHING.

  • loosetooth

    Compelling counterpoint to all the group-think on the “fiscal cliff”. The catchier the name, the less people need to understand it. Not sure I agree, but provocative. I find it interesting when GOP political leaders say the cliff will be so awful because (partially) cuts in government/military spending will hurt the economy. Is everyone a Keynesian in a foxhole?

  • dewitt70

    Because nothing screams “shar’ia” law like low marginal tax rates.

  • APA Guy

    PERFECT…this means not only U.S citizens blame Obama, but China, the EU and others. It just keeps getting better and better.

  • APA Guy

    Darn straight…give the man a beer…imported!

  • APA Guy

    No way…we’ll take that bipartisan agreement…all of it.

  • APA Guy

    That is pie in the sky, FT. Dems are already squawking on TV about winning a “mandate” on the Bush tax cuts. So let them expire, I say…for EVERYONE…and let those government cuts kick in. Hell, we may even be paying a buck fifty for gas again once we close the deficit a bit. Of course, the freeloaders will scream, but what do we care? They BEGGED for Obama’s policies…now they can eat them.

  • ohiohistorian

    I wonder how President 0 will explain to his constituency the expiration of their child care credits, their increased taxes (minimum rate goes back from 10-15percent and the threshold incomes go back down their decrease in the payroll tax back up to pre-2008 levels, the earned income credits go back down) and their new taxes under ObamaCare jump. Republicans should point out that the President signed the bill, and therefore owns it. Until he proposes a rational solution to it, that will remain the law of the land.

    Boehner had better realize that the election gave him the House at almost the same margin as before, so to claim that the election made ObamaCare the law of the land is a stupid statement. The election affirmed divided government and he needs to tell Harry that he is not getting dime 1 to fund it anymore, so either shut the government down over it or repeal it. But I have never been impressed that John is anything but a cowardly politician. Reminds me of the Cowardly Lion every time I see him.

  • ohiohistorian

    Unfortunately, my kid (who voted for Romney) is also trapped by these economic facts. I agree that we need to let Prez 0 take his own medicine. Bring back every troop from overseas, and watch Russia rattle sabers at Europe. I’d be glad to have them back on our soil.

  • ohiohistorian

    Please name the Democrat who ever gave up spending cuts. Remember, even Harry’s veto was overridden as we came out of WWII spending. Reagan was lied to about spending cuts. Clinton budgets still grew, although defense cuts made it look smaller.

    Obama has offered les than 1/3 of the increases to the deficit as cuts, and even then those are cuts to increases in spending. You have NO cuts coming other than the fiscal cliff.

  • ohiohistorian

    Yeah, but John is out there negotiating with himself. Have you listened to this fool on radio and TV? He would give away anything you own to make himself look like a nice guy. Too bad there aren’t some Republicans in the House that have enough guts to say “Hell, NO” when John runs for Speaker.

  • ohiohistorian

    Not with the current House leadership, you can’t cut spending. I am convinced that the Ryan budget got out to the floor around the Cantor/Boehner Obama-kissers has to have been a fluke.

  • hedapraksh

    it’s repubs who would be responsible, cause for the love of 2% they let 98% doom…President has run election with raise for commitment and exit polls approved that decision….its ur choice….I am happy to see nothing done that ill make America stronger sooner…

  • hedapraksh

    Oh yeah…repub voters are smart….from backward though:)

    Obama Swept States With The Most Educated Workforces And The Highest Paid Teachers
    http://thinkprogress.org/education/2012/11/09/1170241/obama-education-2012/

    America would be way better if repubs learn to shut up and let Obama do the job…

    Bills Republicans Have Blocked Since President Obama Took Office http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3293301#forum-post-50184092

  • streiff

    obviously this guy doesn’t believe in evolution because the evolutionary strategy he chose was fatally flawed.

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