Precisely, Jeff…the public put its trust in Democrats last Tuesday. That same public will blame Obama for HIS recession and unwillingness to do what is necessary for the country.

Nah believe me the House IS the new Bush foil. Everything is going to be blamed on the “radical” House no matter why don’t the Republicans just govern the way they want to. The media is all to happy to blame extremist Tea Party Republicans for all of our country’s problems. I say fine. Let’s just let all this crap expire and see if raising a bunch of taxes can actually lower the deficit. It is better than any half-baked measure they’ll take otherwise.

I say let the tax cuts lapse. The R’s in the house will be blamed no matter whatever happens either way. At least the myth that the cuts were for the “rich” will disappear when most people look at their pay stubs. This place is going down and there is no way to stop it. Its only a matter how fast. Miserycare is the lethal wound to to America, for many reasons. The increased taxation will only accelerate our destruction. But since we ARE going down, faster is better than a death by a thousand cuts. IMO

first of all, we need a hostile media bootcamp for all Republicans. Gawd I’m tired of seeing these naive well intentioned idiots throw themselves to the media interview slaughter.

Gingrich, Giuliani, Sununu, Allen West, Rubio types could teach the bootcamp in handling hostile media.

Streiff, gamecock totally agrees. More later in a column.

Tax bills must originate in the house and the last time I checked we have control there. Now is the time for tax reform if there is to be any deal at all. And by the way does anybody remember the last time the ways and means committee chairman was seen in an interview talking about tax policy? Me either!

I think this is where you and I diverge every so slightly, streiff. I think the fiscal cliff exists…and will put very real harm on Americans. I think the stock market will initially nose dive due to the public (spending cuts) and private (expiration of the tax cuts) resources that will be taken out of an economy already growing at a snail’s pace.

Where you and I see eye-to-eye is where the necessity of the action is concerned. In the end, our economy will be better for allowing what is about to transpire to occur. Politically, if the voting public is to blame anyone, they will blame the guy who promised to transform Washington and forge bipartisan agreements. Problem for him is, he already reached that agreement when he extended the tax cuts for only 2 years and agreed to the spending cuts.

You hear me Republicans? The bipartisan deals have already been reached…no need to reinvent the wheel. Let what is about to happen take place. The nation will thank us, not Democrats, for it in 2014 and 2016.

I’m all for the cuts in spending, but quick question. Would the cuts effect the current baseline? We have had 4+ years of massive overspending baked into the baseline and if we can lower that(not just the rate of growth , but actually lower it) that would be worth any pain. But I like what APA proposes with letting voters live with what they voted for. You break it, you bought it.

it’s a mix. The key part is the sequester which would affect 2013 outlays. What I don’t think we can afford to do is trade real cuts today for something in the future.

Everyone talks about spending cuts but based on the budget figures I don’t see how that helps our situation. In order to get out of the debt hole we have to cut into mandatory spending(pensions, medicare, social security) and no administration is going to see past their moral obligations to keep those in place.

Except that the Dems will not accept entitlement starvation.

The ‘non defense’ cuts will be taken out of parks, law enforcement, and everything else that ‘everyone likes’ while welfare is protected. They’ll close Yellowstone & the Grand Canyon, but keep TANF & Food Stamps fully funded….

It is a common trick at the state/local level, insert police/fire/schools in the place of the NPS & FBI…

If we give in, class warfare wins. And obama delivers what he sold to Americans to win. Is that what we want to do? Who decides what a fair share is anyway? Obama? Heck no!!

Wake the F up. Spending cuts right now will lead to another recession (just look at austerity in the European nations that decided to go that way – please, just look at the facts before you) that will put us deeper into the economic growth hole, and make it HARDER, not easier to cut deficits and eventually debt. We need to GROW and create JOBS – NOW. We need to tackle the debt and deficits once we have accomplished this.

It’s economics 101. There is a reason it was called the “Laffer” curve…

Any bill that originates in the house can be amended in the Senate in any way the Senate wants. Your distinction is one without meaning.

I’m tired of focusing on this as if it matters to anyone other than the most petty amongst us.

No we? I donated more to Republican causes this go round than the lot of you combined would be my guess. WTF have you done other than sit around here circle jerking?

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, just let the Dems, and the idiots that voted for them, OWN IT! They voted for this clown becuase they think he’s so swell. So, let’s just give them everything they want… it WILL turn out to be a disaster, but at least we can then say, “See, I told you so”, and retake the Senate in 2014 and the WH in 2016. Anything to help the economy will be heralded by the media as Obama’s Recovery (See Bill Clinton’s legacy vs. Newt’s and the House’s) and we will have a Democrat majority for years to come. Sometimes you just have to take the medicine and sometimes you have to have the balls to give it. The electorate needs to take this bitter pill and we need to shove it right up their ***.

Butthurt trolls are so entertaining.

You keep using the word “we.” I don’t think it means what you think it means (hint: you’re not one of us.) Obvious Democrat troll is obvious.

Unwillingness?

No, it’s his WILLINGNESS to wreck the economy.

Working to improve things?

Yes, we are working to improve things, only that we are working based on he voters’ principles instead of our own, and waiting to see how that turns out. The people have spoken. They must be listened to.

I suppose seeing the Democrats as having dodged and demagogued the issues is BS. Well, we lost that argument in the election, so give them whatever they want. It is the will of the people, reaffirmed in two elections, and we must submit to it. Elections have consequences, and the liberals won. There is no magic “centrism” button here.

We should just abstain on everything.

Trust me- the Tammy Baldwin caucus will make it impossible for them to pass it themselves.

And if they do, well, it will only slightly slow down the economic crisis, but hardly enough to avoid the impact of their over-tax, over-spend, over-regulate policies.

The Bush tax cuts actually cut taxes across the board, with the biggest benefit to many near the bottom.

If those expire, which they ought to because “Booosh tax cuts are evil and are only for rich meanies like Mittens”, well, I can’t imagine people would be too happy about that.

Only the House can formally introduce such a bill…and hell should freeze over before ANY bill is allowed into discussion that doesn’t involve across-the-board cuts for ALL taxpayers.

Allowing expiration of the Bush tax cuts would cut into the take-home of EVERY SINGLE WORKING AMERICAN. In addition, it would cut the child tax credit in half…which would be mighty popular with the legions of single moms who will be $1,000-3,000 in the hole…depending on how many children they have.

Remember, most Democrats didn’t support these tax cuts from the outset. They won…it’s THEIR mandate…let’s give them what they want. Expiration of the tax cuts and spending cuts THEY AGREED TO in 2011…simple.

APA guy, ” I see this as our one chance to shake the American voting public from
the trance of ignorance they are currently in. There will be no “Come to
Jesus” moment unless the nation is faced with the consequences of
dealing with what Obama handed us during his first term.”
Brilliant.
It will take less than a year, maybe 6 months, for the Tea party to see a huge spike in supporters, and a huge push-back with no propaganda, no fraud, no wars.
Just plain COMMON SENSE will rule!!!!
I shutter to think, how the administration will handle it.

Ruin the Man?

That idiot has done more damage to this nation than Carter ever could. But rest assured, WE WILL hold the Butcher of Benghazi and the hand behind Operation Fast and Furious accountable.
BTW, just so you know, Dumbo had a CLEAR mandate from Jan 2009 to Jan 2011 and all he did was pass 25 new taxes under ObamaKare. But hey, golfing and vacations are more fun than leading.

Yeah, let’s ignore it and let Dumbo do whatever.
Clown.

Good point.

“Nah believe me the House IS the new Bush foil. Everything is going to be
blamed on the “radical” House no matter why don’t the Republicans just
govern the way they want to.”

Yeah, the Lib-Dems have been pressing that meme since early 2011. Completely bogus, but it WILL go into overdrive especially if the economy hits the rocks.

Of course if the economy does well, then it proved Obama’s awesome. win/win for them.

” What I don’t think we can afford to do is trade real cuts today for something in the future.”

Hearty agreement here. As the Aug 2011 showdown was going down, I was making that comment, basically, hoping as they went into the final cave-meetings to at least get spending cuts in FY2012, because anything beyond that was meaningless and subject to revision….

And lo and behold, here we are, waiting for the Congress and Prez to revise and extend, or extend and pretend, on whatever they did prior in those meetings. They didnt really hit FY 2012 hard, they did FY2013 though. … the cuts we are seeing now.

If we are cuttin FY 2013, we have spending cuts.
If we have a piece of paper that says “lets do X instead of Y” that’s not a spending cut. It’s a piece of paper.

Look what happened when Columbus forsook the safety of old Europe and launched out to sail over the edge of the earth. Not too shabby.

If there is a cliff and/or if we are facing a crisis why not just let it happen? Take the full force and consequence…When has America citizens or their politicians ever made difficult decisions unless they are pushed to the wall?

Repairing buildings extends their life but are we not left with a old failing building with a new roof or a new coat of paint that simply hides the decay?

How long have we know the tax code should be changed or that regulations are hurting us or that social programs have grow at a rate that can’t be funded? We have lived in denial. This election was a denial of simple realities.

If we look around in our families and friends we will find a whole bunch of people that want government to take care of them at one level or another. They want government to be care takers. They just voted. Even in the group that voted against Obama with their vote for Romney wants a active social government. We know this because this group also keep reelection the same good old boys and girls that promise them a socially active government.

It not a question of giving in its a question knowing what the reality is. ( I never believed that Reagan beat Carter… Carter was Carter’s down fall. I though the same would happen in this election with Obama. Romney’s don’t win elections.)

Will the GOP select another Romney in 2016? I would bet a Big Mack that they will.

Ron

Dern

In-as-much as I do not, nor ever wish Harm on anyone, in this case I am gonna ‘quiet-up’ and lets the chips fall…..and Fall They Will, like locusts on newly-ripened wheat .
Progressives are The Ones who prefer to ‘Heart’ Darwin, so awfully-much. While the Economy slides ever-downward and few capital expenditures are seen,…when no Job Creation is noted , for the next 8 quarters at least, and ‘Shrugging’ {non-participation in Orgs. and Corps. that are seen as Progressive] takes hold, what will Progressives howl for as ‘A Governmental Remedy’ ? This is their choice and until It’s futility hits them right in the eyes, and makes them bruised and bloody, we hold? Not bloody likely.
They’ve already ‘told you’ what you ‘can have’ for health insurance and are gonna ‘fine’ you if you don’t HeeL ! [ like a good little doggy]
So what Would The Next Step Be? Since I am in no way Progressive, nor Leftist, in this arena I can only guess. But I’m scaring the absolute hell out of myself, here and now, and I turn to my alternate reality for a-while, dreaming of a rolling Lake Michigan as seen from Frankfort, Michigan’s bluff/overlook, just south of town. I can see it now….. and it does help, somewhat……..

I don’t see obama being blamed for anything. The media will double down in protecting him, because the GOP was ineffective to exposing him as the 2nd coming of Jimmy Carter.

The hype about fiscal cliff by propaganda media is meant to pressure Republicans to cave, in the name of bipartisanship and obama’s “mandate”.

They will cave. Gee just look at the past, despite the disclaimers by financial people, the past IS indicative of future results.

I don’t know why we don’t acknowledge the war the media has waged.

Election is over, hedapraksh…time to OWN the deficit reduction you put in place. You’ll get your tax increases on the rich, and we’ll get our healthy spending cuts.

THAT was the compromise…eat it and smile

Yeh Grumpy – This past week showed just how much power you guys got, and no prospect for change. I love extremists – they keep the electorate on its toes. Good luck with those views.

Bill, I agree, that is the way it is ‘supposed to work”, however, the Senate likes to play fast and footloose with amendment revisions/cloture and also by modifying the rules of the senate.

Who’s to say that that the house will even be given the opportunity to agree or disagree to the legislation?

It seems that the only way they can escape the eventual blame (and they *will* be blamed) is for them to take the high road and state in no uncertain terms; “The people have already passed this through their votes on Nov 6th and we will not seen as obstructionists to the Will of the People”