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FRONT PAGE CONTRIBUTOR

The Benghazi-Syria Connection

* Events listed in Benghazi time.

September 11, 2012, 8:30 PM: U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.  All is quiet, Ambassador Chris Stevens has recently finished a meeting with the Turkish consul general.

9:40 – 9:42 PM: Alarms sound, indicating something is wrong.  The compound is under attack.  A senior State Department security officer at the consulate calls for assistance from the CIA base located less than 1 mile away.

9:59 PM: An unarmed drone is directed to fly over the consulate.

10:20 PM: First officers from CIA’s Global Response Staff arrive at the consulate to assist against attackers.

10:32 PM: National Command Center at the Pentagon notifies the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the attack.  Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey are also informed of the situation.

11:00 PM: Panetta and Dempsey meet with President Obama for a previously scheduled meeting and discuss the attack.

11:11 The unarmed Predator drone arrives to provide aerial reconnaissance.

11:30 PM: After fighting at the consulate, the CIA team leaves with State Department officers, including the body of information officer Sean Smith, for the CIA base.  Ambassador Stevens has not been located and is not included.

11:56 PM: Attacks by rocket-propelled grenade and small arms begin at the CIA base.

12:00 – 2:00 AM: After discussions, Panetta orders teams from Rota, Spain to prepare for deployment to Tripoli and Benghazi.  Special operations force teams in Croatia and in the U.S. are also ordered to prepare for deployment to a staging base in southern Italy.

1:01 AM: Attack at the CIA base stops.

1:15 AM: CIA reinforcements arrive at the airport in Tripoli.

2:39 AM to 2:53 AM: The National Military Command Center gives formal authorization for deployment of special operations teams from Croatia and the U.S.

4:30 AM: After being delayed by negotiations with Libyan authorities, the CIA reinforcements leave the airport.

5:04 AM: CIA reinforcements arrive at the CIA base.  Former Navy SEAL Glen Doherty joins former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods on the roof to defend against attack.

5:15 AM: New attack on CIA base begins with mortars.

5:26 AM: Attack ends.  Woods and Doherty have been killed.

6:00 AM: Libyan forces arrive and take the Americans to the airport.

* From here, Pentagon and CIA timelines completely diverge on when the Americans were flown back to the U.S.

On September 12, 2012, at 10:43 AM, President Obama stood in the Rose Garden at the White House and gave the first official address concerning the attack that began the day before in Benghazi, Libya.  Questions began immediately as to what exactly happened and why the attack had occurred.  To date, the outpouring of information from official sources has been confusing at best and many times conflicting.  While many in the media and public have focused on sorting out the statements that have been made in the months following the attacks, perhaps the answers lie prior to the events in Benghazi.  Considering the events in Libya leading up to the Benghazi attack, evidence appears to indicate that what happened on September 11, 2012 was the climax of a series of events that began on February 15, 2011.

The Libyan civil war started on February 15, 2011 with protestors gathered in the city of Benghazi.  Libyan security forces clashed immediately with the protestors and the rebellion quickly spread throughout the country.  Not long after the initial incident, the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution to freeze the assets of Libyan leader, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.  Meanwhile in the United States, the President signed a secret order allowing the U.S. government to provide covert support to the rebels in Libya.  In April, the U.S. then decided to send $25 million in aid to the Libyan rebels that consisted of food and equipment, but excluded weapons.  However, while not openly sending in arms, the U.S. did participate, along with European nations, in airstrikes against Libyan forces to help the rebels regain their ground against Gaddafi.  Soon after, the U.S. announced at a NATO meeting in Rome that they hoped to release some of the frozen assets to help the NATO effort to give money to the rebels.  Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stated from the meeting, “Clearly on our agenda is looking for the most effective way to deliver financial assets and other means of supporting and helping.”  It was at this meeting that, for the first time, world leaders openly discussed the idea of giving arms to the Libyan rebels.  France quickly took action, airdropping weapons and ammunition into Libya, while in the U.S. the House voted against providing more aid to the rebels.  Finally, on October 23, 2011 the war ended in Libya with the rebels victorious against Gaddafi, who was killed in the battle.  However, before the Libyan civil war came to end, world leaders recognized a new problem on the horizon.

Left in the wake of Gaddafi’s decades-long regime were huge stockpiles of weapons.  Arms provided openly and covertly to the rebels during the war only added to a new threat facing Libya and the world.  Concerns were immediate that Libyan weapons would make their way into the hands of al Qaeda.  The U.S. wasted no time in beginning to work with the new Libyan leadership in trying to reign in the massive amount of weapons that had been found around Tripoli.  For their part, the United Nations Security Council adopted a resolution to help secure the loose weapons.  Unfortunately, efforts to stop al Qaeda from capitalizing on the Libyan war were too late.  As reported by Reuters shortly after the conflict began, Libyan weapons had already been secured by al Qaeda in Algeria.  After the war, al Qaeda acknowledged that they had “been one of the main beneficiaries of the revolutions in the Arab world.”  Still, the responsibility of securing the Libyan weapons was one the world was committed to continuing.

Syria became the next country involved in the “Arab Spring” and, once again, countries around the world had to weigh how involved they would be in helping the Syrian opposition.  The official U.S. stance was to pursue diplomatic actions, such as sanctions, and not arm the Syrian rebels.  At the same time, however, the CIA was in southern Turkey helping to distribute weapons from allies to the Syrian opposition fighters.  In March 2011, U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens became the official U.S. liaison to the Libyan opposition, who were believed to have links to al Qaeda.  Not long after Stevens’ appointment, the U.S. announced a program that sought to buy man-portable air-defense systems (MANPADS) that had gone missing in Libya.  Glen Doherty, one of the former Navy SEALs who was killed in the Benghazi terrorist attack, was working in Libya for the state department to find and destroy the MANPADS, capable of shooting down commercial airliners.  Meanwhile at the consulate, with Benghazi still flooded with weapons from the war, Ambassador Stevens and U.S. embassy staff were becoming increasingly concerned for their safety.  Security threats were on the rise in the months leading up to the attack on the consulate in Benghazi.  As noted earlier, Ambassador Stevens’ last meeting was with the Turkish consul general and at least one source has suggested the meeting was to negotiate a weapons transfer;  specifically, SA-7 MANPAD missiles from Libyan fighters.   Interestingly, a week prior to the attack, a Libyan ship docked in Turkey with a large amount of weapons, including SA-7 MANPADS, bound for Syria.

While the official reason given for Ambassador Stevens being in Benghazi on such an important anniversary is that he was to be present at the opening of a new English-language school, it seems he was there to do his job as a liaison for the Libyan rebels.  Considering the fact that the U.S. has armed Libya before, the secret order President Obama authored at the start of the new Libyan war may have included giving weapons to the Libyans once again.  However, as the weapons quickly ended up in the hands of al Qaeda, the United States would have been urgently seeking to recover them; not only due to the security concerns but the fact that terrorists were armed as a result.  When Syria went to war after Libya, the U.S. was in an opportune position to give the Libyan weapons to the new resistance in Syria.  Once again,however, al Qaeda and other terrorist groups were lying in wait to receive the spoils of the newest conflict in the region.  Considering Iran-Contra and Fast and Furious, a new scandal wherein the United States once again armed terrorists would certainly be one the current administration would seek to cover-up.  If terrorists managed to kill four Americans with weapons potentially provided by the United States, the administration would not only be concealing a scandal but also seeking to avoid criminal prosecution for its hand in enabling the attacks.

 

 

COMMENTS

  • runner12

    My biggest concern is that the MSM will continue to bury this story. Who is doing the investigating? Who is asking questions? No one, it seems. Maybe one honest journalist will continue to pursue this and get to the truth. If they do, they will be a hero/heroine in my eyes.

  • CarolT

    One woman at CBS was investigating this but she’s probably been stopped by now. I do not watch CBS but if they have covered it, I would have heard Rush talk about it.

    I would love for secret order Obama signed to be released.What happened to the leakers, they were leaking classified info for a while. I have not seen anything lately.

    I sincerely hope they are not arming the Syrian rebels, let Assad defend himself. The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Need I say anything more than the name Morsi?

  • Pingback: Benghazi is not dead libtards - Page 4 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

  • honeyboywilson

    Look at that car: “What happened in Benghazi?” coupled with a Romney sticker. That about sums it up.

  • fpete13527

    Breeanne & RS, thank you for this post. Please do not stop writing about Benghazi.
    To me, this is the biggest disgrace of this decade.

    I’m clear what we are up against in getting to the truth in Benghazi, especially now. However, it is critical. Thank you again

  • Bill S

    Bye.

  • tngal

    The MSM isn’t covering it because, while they’ve googled this Ben Gauzy guy on the internet, nothing’s come up on him. So, they’ve done due diligence. Also, while Breeane points out that at 11:11 the drone arrived to provide aerial reconnaissance the MSM was told “These aren’t the drones we’re looking for. Move along.” ( a) Its a convoluted coverup and it takes awhile to writeup and people can’t follow it that long, and; b) the WH has given us bite sized easy digestable answers to use .)

  • vtdelacy

    The last I heard, the military itself was planning to pursue a means of holding Obama accountable for what amounts to the treason at Benghazi. I only hope and pray they are successful in getting him removed from office over this disgrace.

  • nesalo

    Impeachment is one thing.

    Military coups are another.

    That sort of talk isn’t tolerated here.

  • lynncarol

    yea…right. the only good thing about Obama’s second term is that it keeps a anti-science, anti-woman, anti-intellectual, anti-minority, pro-rape, pro-war Republican out of the Oval Office. Romney was a clown.

  • lynncarol

    My father was a Republican, back before the GOP was so unapologetically racist, so I grew up in a Republican household. What happened? My father would be rolling over in his grave is he saw what a bunch of soft, crybaby whiners his party has become. Lose an election – Hate America is the answer? WTF? Then again, my father would be appalled at the racial and gender hatred that is so dominant in the GOP. He would be appalled by the regional confinement of the GOP to the south. But what really would have appalled my father was the anti-intellectualism of the GOP. My father was wealthy, fiscally conservative, and white, which made him a Republican in the 80′s, but he was not a racist and did not hate women, which would make him a Democrat leaning independent in 2012.

  • kipling

    Smells like a drive-by troll.

  • kipling

    Trolling confirmed.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Oh, please, take your claptrap, throw it in the dustbin, and apologize at your father’s grave for disgracing him. I think I understand why the Chinese believe in ancestral worship; with descendants like this, lightning would be striking everyone within a mile’s radius.

  • hutch2

    You’re a knucklehead lynncarol. “He would be appalled by the regional confinement of the GOP to the south”??? Ahm, you know, Obama only won the 4 main swing states that truly decided the election (FL, OH, VA and CO – that’s SE, Midwest, Eastern seaboard and Rocky Mountains) by 400,000 votes total. A lot of Republicans voted in those states and regions, all across the country. Nearly 60,000,000 in fact. Not really confined to the “racist” south now is it?
    Of course, saying “confined” is racist isn’t it, because that could be a dog whistle term for bondage, i.e. chains, i.e. slavery, i.e. BLACK!!! Give me a break, dude. Anyway, your idiot statement that the GOP is confined (there’s that word again) to the south proves your arguments should be taken at no value.
    Oh, and by the way, the GOP have governors in 30 states and hold the majority in most statehouses across the nation. Mainly the states where they aren’t going bankrupt. 30 states. That’s even more states (24 plus the District of Columbia) whose combined population is less than the total population of people on welfare(most of whom are WHITE! Oh, geez, I’m being racist again… against my own kind… ya know, the GOP, us old white guys, with top hats and transistor radios) that our Dear Leader has so graciously endowed them with. For life.
    Thanks again for the laughs, lynncarol!

  • mtmnd

    I understand why you would want to get rid of lynncarol, but how about the embarrassment above named “vtdelacy” who is hoping and praying for a military coup? I thought nut jobs like that weren’t tolerated at redstate?

  • mtmnd

    This idiotic impeachment talk is at least as embarrassing as the birther and secession garbage.

  • rannan3

    Cheryl Atkinson at CBS has done some excellent investigative reporting.

    So that’s one at CBS actually doing her job.
    She’s probably being watched by DHS as we speak……

  • stanleybix

    We’ll never get the truth or Obama on Benghazi or anything else. He’s got the power right now. All we can do is ride out the next 2-4 years and try again to wake up “the stupids” to the insanity of re-re-re-electing the brain dead Congress (On both sides of the aisle) we have now!!

  • gmat

    “In March 2011, U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens became the official U.S. liaison to the Syrian opposition, who were believed to have links to al Qaeda.”

    and

    “…it seems he [Stevens] was there to do his job as a liaison for the Syrian rebels.”

    are incorrect.

    Stevens was liaison to the Libyan rebels, not the Syrian rebels, according to the article you linked

    http://abcnewsradioonline.com/world-news/us-names-chris-stevens-liaison-to-libyan-opposition.html

  • edintexas

    Impeachment by the House IS the indictment. What you mean to say is that the Senate, sitting as Jury, will not convict.

  • edintexas

    Surely you are joking. There is both Constitutional and historic basis for Impeachment. While I don’t believe there is the slightest possibility of this president being impeached (one never knows what might occur, or be revealed, in the future), Impeachment isn’t even remotely similar to secession (settled question in 1865) or someone’s birth certificate.

  • mlaforet

    Last time I commented on this, last week, I predicted exactly this…that we had funded the attack so like I’ve said countless times, the idiot in the WH NEVER learns from his mistakes and we need to boot him out of the WH. The teapartiers yesterday had an excellent post regarding voter-fraud and how computers could be programmed to give Obama the lead over Mitt….I think there could be some relevance to that argument and maybe Mitt actually DID win. He had 60% approval right before the election http://www.westernjournalism.com/what-happened-to-our-votes/

  • runner12

    Wow. Judge people much? Please cite evidence of GOP racism and hate. Be specific. Disagreeing on policy does not count..
    Do you really think Conservatives are anti-intellectual? Really? Or is it because they just do not agree with you?

    The name-calling and hatred you have espoused is truly sad and pathetic. I actually feel a little sorry for you and your narrow-mindedness

  • Bill S

    bye, dumbass.

  • runner12

    Kowalski: Speaking of being anti-intellectual, your post had nothing to do with the subject of this diary. Do you know how foolish that makes you look? It transparently shows that you are here to troll and not share ideas.

    And if you are wondering if I just called your actions anti-intellectual, I just did.

  • chipbennett

    No, I don’t think so. If the timeline and facts in the post bear out to be true and accurate, then we are very much dealing with an impeachable offense.

    Look, I don’t think there is any constitutional basis for the right of secession (call it the Hotel California of the Republic: you can ratify, but you can never leave), I couldn’t care less about Obama’s birth certificate (that issue was moot the moment he was elected), I didn’t call for impeachment over ObamaCare as some did (hey, elections have consequences), and I didn’t even call for his impeachment over Fast and Furious (although Holder should be impeached, and imprisoned).

    But if true, Benghazi was not merely a case of incompetence, misinformation, or a SNAFU. If true, and Obama was actively aware of the situation for *hours*, and not only failed to send in help, but *actively ordered help to stand down*, then this is a case of dereliction of duty of the Commander in Chief, that directly resulted in the death of an ambassador. (And that’s even before considering the veracity of the rumors/theories that the whole thing resulted from rendition and arms-trafficking operations being conducted.)

  • chipbennett

    Quite right!

    s/indict/convict

  • jpkoch

    Why is it idiotic? If the narrative is correct, the President not only was breaking the law (ie arming Al Qaida), but he also ordered the abandonment of the Ambassador and the CIA operatives. If that is true, then he is also guilty of perjury. These are not idiotic allegations. Additionally if Obama had an (R) suffixed to his name, I can guarentee you that the MSM would be fighting eachother to get the scoop.And Pelosi and Reid would have long ago empaneled a Select Committee to investigate the allegations.

  • rightlane1111

    OK…I want to know something….and it seems to be hushed up…so I went to what I think is a reliable source backed up by the Washington Times and ABC.

    Please read: http://israelinsider.net/profiles/blogs/top-us-general-and-admiral-reported-canned-over-benghazi-actions-

    I would like to know something about this. I know, according to the news that these men who did not stand down fought for seven hours…and they were murdered along with Ambassador Stevens. Nobody was there to help them? Then we have two…admirals FIRED? On September 11th…Obama could not vision that there would be trouble in the world with the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST in turmoil? What a mess…we are leading our men to slaughter.

  • rightlane1111

    I don’t know about any serious voter fraud…but if Nixon got the axe…where are our representatives concerning Obama and his gang…and yes…the latter word describes them.

  • Breeanne Howe

    Thank you for the catch, I will correct. Thank you also for taking the time to read.

  • celador2

    Media were a drum beat on Valarie Plame and who outed her. Not so with four dead Americans 9/11.

    Jake Tapper ABC was on Hannity and one other FNC show on Benghazi. He has shown some interest. But it has been Greta and her guest John Bolton who first discussed the possiblity of gun running run amuck to al queda and a link to Fast and Furious.

    Stevens was in town to meet Turkish ambassador who was arming Syrian rebels.

    When Obama dodged an ABC interview question what was Steven doing in Benghazi I saw a pattern of cover up and that all was not as it seemed even by Obama spin machine standards.

    McCain will meet with Rice and may back off his hard charges of no confirmation to State presumably if she tells him why she lied about 9/11 being a demo over a video in secret

    Hillary agreed to go to the Hill in public and will give them a run around.
    .

  • Bill S

    Seriously? The military? Just exactly where did you “hear” that? PrisonPlanet? WND?

    Please, get a grip.

  • mtmnd

    “No, I don’t think so. If the timeline and facts in the post bear out to be true and accurate, then we are very much dealing with an impeachable offense.”

    Obviously something went wrong in Benghazi but to pretend that somehow the President’s action was criminal? We must be reading different timelines. What EXACTLY is the supposed impeachable offense? What exactly and specifically was the President’s high crime? No one seems to be able to answer these questions. All anyone knows for sure is that whatever happened, it must be grounds for impeachment!

    All this loose impeachment talk is quickly turning into this term’s “birther” issue. Because of the complete absence of a firm basis for impeachment, the very idea is ridiculous on its face and is already backfiring because it plays directly into the liberal narrative that conservatives are nothing but extreme partisans permanently in denial, desperate and poor losers who will do and say anything to get rid of a democratically elected President.

    Worse still, these hyperbolic cries for impeachment undermine the legitimacy of potentially important and proper inquiries into what really happened. There are questions which need to be asked and lessons that need to be learned, but since so many like you have been making unfounded accusations of wrongdoing from day one, it will become increasingly impossible for the nation to take those investigations and accusations seriously.

    In other words, all this loose talk of impeachment makes it seem like all the investigations are nothing more than the latest partisan witch-hunt just like the birther garbage, and that is unfortunate because we really ought to find out what happened.

  • mtmnd

    Perjury? There’s a perfect example of the type of idiocy to which I refer. Look up what perjury means, and then explain to me how the President has perjured himself on this issue?

    As for the rest, it is nothing but wishful thinking your part, and it is pretty sad for America when Americans (liberal or conservative) are hoping that the President committed a crime.

  • mtmnd

    The impeachment cries are similar to the birther cries are secession cries because all of these movements lack any real basis in reality and thus reinforce the liberal narrative.

  • chipbennett

    “What EXACTLY is the supposed impeachable offense? What exactly and specifically was the President’s high crime? No one seems to be able to answer these questions.”

    I *did* answer this question:

    Dereliction of duty by the Commander in Chief, that led directly to the murder of an American ambassador is solid enough grounds for impeachment. And if Obama gave or allowed the “stand down” order for troops that would otherwise have intervened, then he is guilty of dereliction of duty.

    And again: throw in the arms-trafficking allegations, and you have even *more* impeachable offenses.

    Also, I would consider Obama lying to the UN to be potential further grounds for censure, though not impeachment.

    “…but since so many like you have been making unfounded accusations of wrongdoing from day one…”

    [citation needed]

    Really? I made such “unfounded accusations of wrongdoing from day one”? Prove it.

    I held my tongue until information came out. My first inclination was that Benghazi was a failure of the State Department, for which Hillary Clinton should be held responsible. It has now become obvious, as information has come out and your precious questions are being answered, that this was a failure not only of State (for failing to provide sufficient security) but also of the military and intelligence, all the way up to the CIC, for failure to act.

  • nesalo

    Er. Yeah. It’s a little disturbing to see someone who’s calling for a military coup sitting at +20 on a mainstream conservative blog, and the moderators doing nothing about it.

  • mtmnd

    1. What “information came out” that supports your accusation that the President gave a “stand down” order? What exactly was the President’s “Duty” in that situation and how exactly was he derelict?

    2. What “stand down order?” When did it occur? Was it supported or opposed by military brass? CIA intel? Did the President go against or with his top advisors on the issue? Was it a difficult and nuanced situation with unknown potential consequences, or a clear-cut case with only one correct path which the President knowingly or negligently avoided?

    3. What exactly was it about this supposed, hypothetical “stand down order” that made it a criminal violation? Would have a different action on the part of the President definitely have saved the Ambassador? Did the President have definite information at the time that a different course of action would have save the Ambassador? Was NOT issuing the supposed, hypothetical “stand down order” risk free? Did an alternative course of action have no potential consequences except for positive consequences?

    4. Setting aside that this is Obama, is it really good precident to try and hold our Commander-in-Chief criminally accountable for decisions made in the heat of chaotic events occurring half-way around the world? Suppose in the future the conservatives control the WH and liberals control the House, do you think it would be good for America if every time something went wrong in a chaotic location overseas that the President was impeached? How many Presidents do you suppose would avoid Impeachment if we get so trigger happy?

    Foreign policy is no game no matter who the President, and in the heat of the moment the decisions are difficult at best, and the potential consequences are largely unknown and convoluted. We should ask questions, we should investigate, we should try to learn from what happened. But the claim that enough “information” has come out to justify a demand for impeachment is downright irresponsible and ridiculous and only serves to make conservatives look bad.

  • mtmnd

    One more of my “precious questions.”

    Suppose Obama had ordered in a rescue attempt against the counsel of his top advisors, and suppose they not only got there too late (as is likely) but their presence resulted in a “Blackhawk Down” type of debacle, with additional American casualties? What then? No doubt you and others would still be clamoring for Impeachment!

    But can it be that the Commander in Chief ought to be impeached every time something goes wrong overseas, no matter what it is? Can it be that we really ought to hold the CIC criminally liable to such damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don’t second guessing?

    This type of transparent partisan politicization of heat-of-the-battle national security decisions is embarrassingly irresponsible. It diminishes us all, hurts the cause, and is bad for America.

  • keithe

    Interesting article, one nit: Gadaffi was not “killed in battle” – he was dragged from a sewer pipe where he was hiding while trying to flee, and killed by a mob (beaten and possibly shot). Fitting end for the architect of modern terrorism.
    I highly doubt the US was sending new weapons to Libya to be redeployed to Syria; I think its more plausible that they were trying to convince the Libyans to send existing stockpiles of now superfluous weapons to Syria.
    The question I keep asking is whether additional security was refused because the administration was so invested in the “process” in Libya that they did not want to upset it by putting additional “boots on the ground” – which would have been very unpopular with the locals. I also have concerns about why an “unarmed” drone was sent rather than an armed drone capable of engaging the attackers – and whether that was done for the same reason, that an attack on Libyan soil would have disturbed the process. I hope not; our president should put American lives ahead of his ambitions for Libya.

  • jpkoch

    Okay, making false statements. The President made false statements. Nixon was about to be impeached for the exact same things (along with other “high crimes” ). If his represenatives made false statements to Congress (DNI, DCI or DOD), then his administration committed perjury.
    And it sure looks like you are projecting. No one is happy about this. But you seem perfectly fine with the idea that a President broke the law, lied to the American people, and misled Congress. But, in the end we have 4 dead Americans. For you Dems that just considered collateral damage. Read my post again. If this had occured when Bush was President Bush would be halfway to Leavenworth.

  • mtmnd

    Try again. Perjury is much more than “making false statements.”

    As for the rest, you are trying to put the cart before the horse. First show me actual evidence that the “President broke the law,” then talk Impeachment. Otherwise you sound foolish and partisan and just turn non-partisans (who want to trust the CIC) against you.

  • keithe

    The claim that the “GOP is the party of Dixie” is so ironic it makes my head spin. The GOP is a northeastern/midwestern/great plains party and has been for 150 years. We have nominated a grand total of ONE southernor for president or VP since 1856 (the first year we nominated) – GWBush. The democrats have had 4 southernors for president since the “reallignment” in 1960 – Johnson Carter Clinton Gore. The south came into the GOP partially due to civil rights opposition but even at the height of racial tensions it was inconsistently republican (Kennedy solidly won the south, in 68 it went Wallace, in 76 Carter swept the south, and Clinton won parts of the south in both elections). Meanwhile the Great Plains has been solidly GOP in every election (except 68 following JFK assasination). THE GOP IS A BIG TENT and isn’t defined by how some people in one geographic region supposedly care about one issue.
    I also take issue with the claim that the south is uniformly “racist.” Compare Obama’s share of the white vote with his white democratic predecessors (or Clinton in 2008 primaries) and you’ll see that race didn’t seem to matter much in the deep south, whereas it seemed to matter in Appalachia. So instead of labling everyone in a particular area racist because of stuff that happened 150 years ago (by the way, back then most northerners were generally supportive of slavery persisting at least in the south), you ought to look at things a little more closely. nothing is more disgusting than someone who makes accusations of intolerant, prejudicial views against entire groups of people based on the accuser’s own intolerant, prejudicial views of those same groups that have no basis in fact or reason.

  • jpkoch

    Crime number one – running guns to either Hamas or Al Qaida (both are terror organizations). Both are fighitng against Assad in Syria – in case you don’t know it, they are the “rebels”.

    Crime number two – orderering the military to stand down. A commanding officer would easily be court martialed for such an offence. President Obama is CIC. Congress is within his rights to impeach a sitting President who fails to fullfil his obligations as CIC -especially if it finds that the President ordered the stand-down for political reasons (see above)

    Crime three – misleading Congress and the American people about the true nature of the assault. The WH had the You Tube excuse online by 0500 on the 12 of September. The WH Press Sec released the official version that morning. Several WH officials from 12 Sep to 16 Sep gave the official version (ie You Tube version). Both the DCI and DNI briefed Congress using this false narrative. From the very beginning, the President pushed this version depsite being in the WH witnessing the slaughter. The former DCI told Congress that he knew it was Al Qaida as early as the morning of the 12th of Sep.
    Aren’t you the least bit curious what exactly happened?

  • jpkoch

    Yes, if Stevens was in Benghazi to run guns to Al Qaida and Hamas then he along with the President broke the law. You seem to be avoiding that point. If you want motive for abandoning Stevens, there you have it.

  • chipbennett

    This response indicates to me two things:

    1) You like to construct straw men to demolish, rather than respond to anything I’ve actually said, and,

    2) You didn’t read the post to which we’re responding.

    I have carefully couched everything I’ve said in an “if true” caveat, with respect to the information Breanne has presented in this post. And if you’ve actually *read* that information, you would realize that this incident unfolded over a period of *hours*, negating the need for heat-of-the-moment decisions.

    The alarms sounded at 9:40pm. Obama began discussing the attack at 11:00pm. The drone arrived at 11:11pm, providing real-time surveillance.

    The mortar attack that killed Woods and Doherty began at 5:15am. For that matter, it was at *least* two hours from the time the alarms sounded until the consulate was evacuated (with Stevens still inside). You really don’t think that Obama could have acted in under 6 hours? We had forces able to intervene from no more than an hour away.

  • jpkoch

    “1. What “information came out” that supports your accusation that the President gave a “stand down” order? What exactly was the President’s “Duty” in that situation and how exactly was he derelict? ”
    We have no evidence because the President put said evidence under lock and key by declaring the attacks as criminal offences. The FBI has all of the transcripts, drone vidoes, and communications between Bengahzi, The African Command, Task Force Stennis and the WH locked away.
    Again the main question is: What was Stevens doing in Bengahzi in the first place? Was he running guns? Secondly, did the President or his administration lie to Congress and the people?

  • jpkoch

    It sounds that way only to Dems who wish to cover up possible felonies committed by this administration and the President. Has it ever occured to you that Al Qaida may in fact decide to use those SA missles against civilian airliners?

  • chipbennett

    You know what: never mind. Going back through your various comments here at RedState, I think you’re just an advanced form of Concern Troll, trying to make us all believe that ideological conservatives can’t win elections.

    You seem to favor capitulation to liberal ideology over forcefully advancing conservative ideology, which explains your reaction to the mere mention that Benghazi may represent an impeachable offense for Obama.

  • mtmnd

    I am very curious as to what exactly happened, which is one reason I am frustrated by this endless “Impeachment!” idiocy. The whole thing looks like partisan gamesmanship and it becomes impossible to take seriously.

    Instead of the The Boy Who Cried Wolf, it is The Conservatives Who Cried Impeachment.

    Just look at your own list and then tell me honestly that there is enough there at this point to justify the calls for Impeachment! For example, whatever your hopes and dreams, at this point there is nothing resembling evidence that Obama was intenionally running guns to Al Qaida. In fact the articles on which the author of the Diary relies indicate that Ambassador Stevens and the Americans were trying to round up missing Libyan weapons so they wouldn’t end up in the hands of Al Qaida! Just the opposite of what you claim.

    And you are deluding yourself on this supposed “order to stand down” or that such an order would amount to an impeachable offense. See my comments to chipbennet on the issue.

    By the way, while I don’t agree with some of the suppositions, I found the main Diary entry to be interesting and informative. But it focused on understanding what happened, not these silly cries for Impeachment!

  • mtmnd

    So I ought to be ignored because I think that fringe elements are marginalizing the conservative movement? Do you even see the irony?

    And how the heck are hyperbolic cries for Impeachment “forcefully advancing conservative ideology?”

  • mtmnd

    Perhaps you should try reading the various articles cited in the Diary above, including the Times of London article at the basis of all this speculation.

    According to all the sources cited in the Diary above, Ambassador Stevens and others were trying to locate and collect the Libyan weapons before they got into Al Qaida’s hands. How you can go from this to your supposition that the US was intentionally supplying these weapons to Al Qaida is beyond me.

  • Melody Warbington

    No, what’s sad is having a POTUS like Obama and seeing our country slide further into the abyss. I’d prefer that President Obama realize that conservative principles are better for our country and her citizens, but I’m not holding my breath. Absent that, I’d be overjoyed if evidence came to light that would ensure his removal from office at the earliest possible opportunity, but I’m not holding my breath on that, either.

  • chipbennett

    You credit me with far too much power. I cannot “marginalize” you; rather, I can simply choose not to engage you.

  • runner12

    Maybe soon the ball will start to roll and we will learn the truth. Hannity has been a litlle cryptic lately, hinting that he may have more information. I think he is just going through the vetting process of the information. I feel slightly more optimistic that maybe we will get to the bottom of this.

  • gmat

    Thank YOU for the links to the very informative articles.

    Another thing we need to be aware of is the link between the various islamist factions which have recently gained power in the region. The Benghazi area has for more than 2 decades been the home of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which was formed in 1990 by Libyan veterans of the war in Afghanistan.

    Their stated mission was to overthrow Ghadafy, and ultimately, they, along with others, did just that. Now they are part of the Libyan government, and it’s reasonable to think they are sending aid to fellow islamist rebels in Syria.

    Likewise, al qaida in Iraq has enjoyed a resurgence in the western deserts of Iraq, and their mission is to overthrow the Shiite dominated government of Iraq. Meanwhile, their proximity to Syria enables them to assist their co-religionists in Syria.

    Then there is the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, who made it from Mubarek’s prisons to the presidency. I would expect them to be assisting their fellow Sunni islamists in Syria.

    And finally, there is Saudi Arabia, going through its own succession problems, the major Sunni power in the region, whose biggest enemy is Iran, the ally of the Syrian dictator. I would think they are quite active in supporting the Syrian insurgents.

  • runner12

    No, you ought to be ignored because you failed to recognize that someone very respectfully (and clearly) articulated how and why Obama could be impeached IF these things are discovered to be true.

    Instead of engaging in an informed and rational discussion, you chose to be defensive and “talk past” the poster.

    No one is calling for Obama to be impeached at this point, simply because we still do not have all of the facts nor proof that he engaged in any impeachable offense. These are simple hypothetical scenarios based on the typical chain of command during these types of incidences.

    It is perfectly legitimate to scrutinize everyone and anyone involved in this affair, including the POTUS. Four Americans are dead and for two weeks the administration put out a lie to the American people. Some may have knowingly lied, others may have been lied to. These are the questions that must be answered and why a thorough and independent investigation is needed.

    One thing we know for certain at this point, there has been a cover-up. It is not simply incompetence. The question is why and for whom is the cover-up for?

  • mtmnd

    I read your post and understood it.

    1. Whether accurate or not, nothing the timeline contained in the Diary comes close to supporting your call for Impeachment. There is nothing in the timeline about Obama “ordering” anyone to “stand down.” Nothing indicating the President did anything criminal. You just read all that into the timeline whether it is there or not.

    2. We cannot and should not impeach the CIC (no matter his party) based on some after-the-fact hunch that “Obama could have acted.” To say he “could have acted” is one thing, to say he should have acted under penalty of Impeachment is quite another, especially given that you and I have little or no idea what his real options were, what exactly he knew and when he knew it, the degree of certainty in the accuracy of the information, what is advisors were telling him, and the known and unknown ramification and possible negative consequences these hypothetical actions.

    3. Again, what if the President had acted and that it had backfired, costing more lives? What then? Can you honestly tell me that had that happen that you would NOT be calling for Impeachment? I think we both know better. This is obviously a political vendetta for you and others and that looks bad and hurts us all . It will rightfully be portrayed as The Boy who Cried Wolf turning into the Conservatives who Cried Impeachment.

    4. Demanding Impeachment will not get us any closer to figuring out what really happened, and it is obviously playing partisan politics where none should be played.

  • mtmnd

    “Yes, if Stevens was in Benghazi to run guns to Al Qaida and Hamas then he along with the President broke the law. You seem to be avoiding that point. If you want motive for abandoning Stevens, there you have it.”

    Those are impossibly bit “if’s” and ones just not supported by the facts thus far. Yet you clamor for impeachment despite this.

  • mtmnd

    But fringe element nutjobs pushing embarrassing agendas like Birtherism, Secession, and Impeachment sure as heck are doing their best to marginalize the conservative movement. Thanks for that.

  • mtmnd

    “Absent that, I’d be overjoyed if evidence came to light that would ensure his removal from office at the earliest possible opportunity, but I’m not holding my breath on that, either.”

    Wow. This is completely crazy and very sad.

    Moderators, if this is the type of nut-job you want here, then feel free to delete me because my viewpoints sure don’t fit in with this sort of insanity.

  • mtmnd

    runner12,

    1. The Diary entry was informative and interesting, but nothing in the “timeline” or “facts” therein comes close to justifying Impeachment. chipbennett is claiming otherwise and he is all wet about this.

    2. I agree that it is legitimate to scrutinize everyone and anyone involved, and I encourage the asking (and answering) of questions. But that isn’t what is ongoing here. These posters are calling for Impeachment without having answers and without having evidence.

    3. I don’t think we know anything for certain at this point which is why these cries for impeachment are so outrageous and counterproductive.

    4. These premature calls for impeachment make an honest and complete investigation less likely, not more likely.

  • Bill S

    Cancel your own damned subscription.

  • runner12

    I think there was quite a bit of tongue-in-cheek sarcasm from chipbennett’s initial comment. He clearly quantified his statements as being only possibilities and not facts at this point. Yet you gave him no credit for this nor acknowledged it. He outlined why he thought impeachment was a possibility, if (and only if), Obama was involved. That was in direct response to your question.

    And your premise that we cannot know for certain there was a cover- up is preposterous given the Petraeus testimony and what Rice said today. There is credible evidence to suggest a cover-up is going on. What we do not know is why or whom is conducting it.

    Even if if it is shown that Obama was not involved in the decisions of Benghazi before or after it will damage his 2nd term. It will show him to be either a puppet ruled by his staff or completely incompetent. He will not escape cleanly in this situation when the truth comes out. It is just not possible given the authority and responsibility the office of the President holds.

  • mtmnd

    Tongue-in-cheek sarcasm? We will just have to agree to disagree on that interpretation.

    Look, I agree there are questions and that they need to be answered. But these ridiculous cries for impeachment impede the process and make getting to the truth less likely. And they play into the liberal narrative about conservatives being partisan hacks that will do anything to get rid of Obama.

  • mtmnd

    I might. Crackpot comments like hers are exactly what drive many reasonable voters away from the conservative movement, so i guess it is appropriate that such comments might also drive away posters.

    But is that really what Redstate wants on either level? I was under the impression from Mr. Erickson’s posts that it was not, but I have been wrong before.

  • Melody Warbington

    Crackpot is quite a step down from racist. LOL. Makes me wonder if you exhibited the same kind of outrage when leftists compared Bush to Hitler, or called Sarah Palin every vile name in the book, not to mention the constant barrage of lies spewed at any given moment and then defended by the SCUM (so-called unbiased media).

    I made clear that my preference is that Obama have a revelation with regard to conservatism. However, his liberal policies are destroying the country and having a direct adverse effect on me, my family and my friends. I make no apologies for wanting him removed from office as well as Biden, Reid, Pelosi, Kerry and every other Democrat in Congress. I’d even throw out more than a handful of Republicans if I could. To be even clearer, I am not advocating removal by force or any means other than legal, constitutional remedies if it were proven that Obama had committed acts that would warrant same.

  • mtmnd

    Any crackpots who were calling for and/or praying for Bush’s impeachment and conviction were also crackpots. But where in the Bible does it say that the wrongdoing of others justifies one’s own wrongdoing?

    Like it or not, Obama won the election, and we are Americans first are foremost aren’t we? As an American I find it despicable for anyone to hope for a severe National disaster and Constitutional Crisis such as the Impeachment and Conviction of a sitting President.

  • Bill S

    Twice in this thread you attempted to play moderator. Don’t bother trying again.

  • celador2

    Hannity will stay on this and never let go.
    Did you see Liz Cheney on Hannity last night? So powerful. Liz observed the WH is calling or labeling GOP concern with Rice remarks about the demo not terrorists sparked the deaths as, “obsessed with Rice.”,
    Liz pointed out that four were dead in Benghazi and that is why the GOP Senators were questioning Rice.
    The arrogance of Obama administration and its dismissive attitude around 9/11 knows no bounds.

  • mtmnd

    Someone ought to.

  • Melody Warbington

    According to your logic, I suppose the Founding Fathers shouldn’t have fought against the Motherland what with being British and all.

    I haven’t and didn’t call for impeachment, but frankly, I think the country could survive that process much more than it can the failed liberal policies of the Obama administration and the Democratic Party.

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  • ratio

    Questions arising from Susan Rice’s peregrinations around
    the Sunday talk show circuit have focused on whether the demonstrations at the
    Benghazi consulate were spontaneous or planned in advance, whether they were
    led by a citizenry outraged by a blasphemous movie trailer or by some al Qaeda wannabes
    taking advantage of Muslim unrest over the film. The story Ambassador Rice and
    the president were hawking Sunday and for weeks afterward was that they had no
    credible evidence that this demonstration was anything but a response to the
    film, as had occurred in Cairo. The poodle press, eager to keep a foreign
    policy scandal from The Chosen One’s door, dutifully promoted this storyline, or
    ignored the story altogether. Whether as a co-conspirator or as a dupe of the
    Deceiver-in-Chief, Rice’s pushing the idea of a demonstration, versus an
    attack, is the real crime. Obama and his minions can hide in the fog of war from
    questions such as whether the attacks were preplanned or triggered by current events,
    but that these were attacks, not demonstrations, was obvious within a few hours
    of their onset. Comparisons to Cairo, where a flag got replaced, are ludicrous
    and clearly designed to obfuscate the fact that Obama was AWOL when it came to
    protecting his people. In emphasizing that these were spontaneous demonstrations,
    and basically lying that there was no evidence to suggest otherwise, Rice tried
    to disconnect Obama from what was unfolding as a horrible security failure to
    protect his people in Benghazi. Rather than as the reification of what months
    of reports and harried pleadings out of Libya had predicted, better to portray
    this atrocity as something spontaneous and unforeseeable. Always quick to
    protect the women in his life, Obama nobly allowed Hillary Clinton to fall on
    his sword.

    I seriously doubt that if the truth about Benghazi had
    gotten out sooner, the subsequent election would have turned out differently. Not
    with an electorate comprising people terrified by the economy into embracing
    socialism (a la Frances Fox Piven), bigots who think businesspeople are somehow
    inferior to sociology professors and poets and owe society a fee for being
    allowed to practice their foul trades, racist civil rights activists who call
    normal Americans racists, people voting with their lady parts rather than their
    brains, and the whole panoply of nincompoop soldiers called to arms in Obama’s phony
    wars on women, minorities, and every other grievance group he could rally.

    Still, America owes it to the Americans who died in Benghazi,
    and to those endangered by future Obama political machinations, to find out why
    they were left so vulnerable. Susan Rice’s bait and switch on the talk show
    circuit, her willingness to trivialize the deadly events there as purblind
    reaction to an insipid movie trailer, do not bode well for her underlings if
    she becomes secretary of state.

  • mtmnd

    “According to your logic, I suppose the Founding Fathers shouldn’t have fought against the Motherland what with being British and all.”

    So now you are equating the circumstances justifying the Revolutionary War, on the one hand, and dissatisfaction with elected Dems, on the other? Sheesh.

  • CarolT

    Is she still investigating or did they stop her? I didn’t see anything last time I checked CBS news, but that was yesterday. Big story was McCain, Graham, Ayotte more upset with Rice.

  • Melody Warbington

    You really have no sense of humor or sarcasm, do you? That statement was tongue in cheek, however, based on your responses, not just to me but others, you’re going to jump to whatever conclusions or imagined slights to Obama happen to pop in your head.

    You totally ignore the fact that liberal policies are destroying this country in your zeal to support the President who is a radical, leftist intent on fundamental transformation of our republic, which many sacrificed to form and protect. As an American, I still have a right to disagree with those policies and to voice my opposition as well as work to remove liberals from office through all means provided in the Constitution. If their own actions help accomplish that goal, more’s the better because the odds are astronomical that Obama and the Dems will suddenly embrace conservatism and point us in the direction of fiscal and moral responsibility and sound national security.

    Again, I haven’t called for impeachment. We do not have all the facts in on this particular issue, and personally, I think it’s a distraction and a futile effort considering we do not control the Senate. However, as to the process of impeachment, our Founding Fathers, apparently thought it necessary and reasonable to include it in the Constitution, with Benjamin Franklin, a fine American, suggesting that a proceduralized mechanism for removal — impeachment — would be preferable to removing “obnoxious” chief
    executives from office than previous methods. I agree with him.

    Feel free to have the last word, call me whatever names you like and report me to the mods (though that doesn’t seem to be workin’ for ya). I’m done with you and your eagerness to defend President Obama.

  • mtmnd

    I’m checking out of the futile and, I think, counterproductive “Impeachment!” discussion in the hopes of getting back to trying to understand what actually happened in Benghazi. Thanks to Mrs. Howe for putting together her timeline and her interesting and informative Diary entry, and especially for gathering the sources linked in the Diary.

    Having read those articles and others, I agree with her assessment that Ambassador Stevens and CIA operatives were most likely involved in trying to locate, secure, and/or destroy stockpiles of Russian made weapons – particularly anti-tank RPG’s and (to quote Reuters) “Russian-made shoulder-fired Strela surface-to-air missiles known by the NATO designation SAM-7″ so that those weapons would not end up in the hands of Al Qaeda. As Mrs. Howe notes, this was and is a very real concern given that Reuters had reported that some of these weapons might have already ended up in the wrong hands!

    What I don’t understand is the logic behind the suggestion that the US might have actually been engaged in supplying the weapons to Al Qaeda in Libya and later in Syria. This seems to contradict the many reports indicating the opposite in both Libya and Syria –the US was actively working to keep these weapons out of the hands of Al Qaeda in both places. For example, Mrs. Howe links to one article reporting: “CIA officers have been in southern Turkey for several weeks, in part to help keep weapons out of the hands of fighters allied with Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups, one senior US official said.”

    So what am I missing here? If all of the linked reports strongly suggest that the US was actively attempting to keep weapons away from Al Qaeda, where is the support for the contrary view?

  • mtmnd

    I’ll let your post be the last word, except that I do want to apologize for the name-calling. Sorry for that.

  • runner12

    The reports on this issue are not suggesting that the US purposefully armed Al Qaeda, that is absurd. The story circulating is that the US was gun-running to the Syrian rebels. These rebels, much like their Egyptian counterparts in the Arab Spring, have ties to radical Islamists (including Al Qaeda). Think of it as another F&F scandal, only worse. The issue is that gun-running or supplying arms to the Syrian rebels is a no-no without Congressional authorization or at least notification. It is like running your own private war. These claims have not been fully substantiated, but it is not a wacky conspiracy theory either. It is gaining some steam in mainstream newspapers and blogs.

    But even if this is not true and you believe the WH version of why Ambassador Stevens was in the area, it is clear that they are covering up something.

    My personal theory is that it was all about the election. Obama and Co. did not want a Blackhawk Down scenario prior to the election, so they made the stand down order and left those men to die. Then when the worst happened, they floated a false story on purpose to cover for the fact that they knew about the attack in real time and gave the stand-down order. Now that everyone knows they knew, they are just stonewalling and trying to find a scapegoat. They tried to pin it on the Intelligence community, but the CIA has basically told them politely to kick rocks. Then Petraeus shoots the hostage by admitting his affair, resigning, and testifying (in effect) that the WH is full of it when they blame the CIA for this mishap. Now we are back to stonewalling.

    This is my basic theory. As to the players and who made what decision I will not speculate. But you can believe it went very high and I would be very surprised if it did not go all the way to the President.

  • runner12

    Calling for any legal action without facts or evidence is not how our system of governmeng works. However, hypothetically speaking, if irrefutable evidence came to light that the President did in fact commit an impeachable offense in this scandal, would you support impeachment proceedings?

  • mtmnd

    “Absurd” is your word but I generally agree with your assessment. Yet some are saying this and others are coming very close. Mrs. Hurd doesn’t come out and use the word “purposefully” but she seems to be suggesting that the US was supplying arms to rebels in both Libya and Syria and knowing that they would end up in the hands of Al Qaeda. With regard to Libya Mrs. Howe wrote,“Considering the fact that the U.S. has armed Libya before, the secret order President Obama authored at the start of the new Libyan war may have included giving weapons to the Libyans once again.” She also wrote “Chris Stevens became the official U.S. liaison to the Libyan opposition, who were believed to have links to al Qaeda.” Maybe I missed something but it sounds to me like she is suggesting that Ambassador Stevens and/or the US was providing arms directly to the Libyan Opposition, which, according to her, was believed to have “links to Al Qaeda.” (I say “according to her” because the sources to which she links are a bit more nuanced.)

    And on Syria she wrote, “When Syria went to war after Libya, the U.S. was in an opportune position to give the Libyan weapons to the new resistance in Syria. Once again, however, al Qaeda and other terrorist groups were lying in wait to receive the spoils of the newest conflict in the region.” Isn’t she suggesting that, at the very least, the US may have been recklessly dumping arms into Libya and Syria knowing that Al Qaeda would get these weapons? If I am misunderstanding her, please correct me.

    If her theory proves correct then I would agree that heads should roll. The trouble I am having is that even the sources to which she links indicate that the weapons were not being supplied by the US, and that in both Libya and Syria the US was actively involved in trying to keep weapons out of the hands of potential terrorists. Maybe these sources will prove inaccurate, but I don’t think we can simply assume they are wrong and create our own narrative.

    You mention that the story is still developing and that mainstream media is picking up on it. Hopefully someone will get to the bottom of it all.

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  • runner12

    I think you are misreading Howe. She simply stated the facts, that these groups (Syrian and Libyan rebels) do have ties to Al Quaeda.

    Her point is that the original intent was to keep arms out of the hands of Al Quaeda, but in the naivete of the Obama administration they actually armed the very people they were trying to keep the weapons from!

    Recall how badly the administration interpreted the events of the Arab Spring in Egypt. They ignored the radicalism and influence of the MB and now we have Morsi turning into another dictator. Similarly, the contention is that Obama and Co. once again failed to look at who the rebels were associated with in Libya and Syria. The result (if this proves to be true), is that the United States unwittingly just armed their greatest enemy.

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  • Breeanne Howe

    Yes, Runner12, you are correct in your assessment of my opinion. It appears to me that the government may have been covertly trying to help the rebels, but I do not think they had any intentions of arming Al Qaeda. I believe it may have been a scandal like Fast and Furious and having already gone through that (and Egypt),

  • runner12

    You were clear in your diary what you meant, I am puzzled as to why the above poster has difficulty grasping these concepts. I completely agree with you in the similarities between the gun-running to Syria (if it is proved to be true) and F&F scandal.

    Great diary and summation of the time line of events.

  • mtmnd

    A few interesting developments in Syria.
    1. Rebels reportedly shot down a Russian made fighter jet with a Russian made shoulder launched missile. It is probably first successful use of such a weapon by the Rebels, who claimed the weapon had been seized in a raid of a Govt. base. It is frightening to consider the damage these things could do if in the wrong hands.

    2. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta addressed the issue of weapons and Syria, as reported on the DoD website:

    In addition to discussing Afghanistan, the defense secretary also re-emphasized that the United States has had no involvement in equipping rebel forces in Syria with weapons or surface-to-air missiles.
    “With regards to Syria, let me say, unequivocally, that we have not provided any of those kinds of missiles to the opposition forces located in Syria,” Panetta said. “We do provide … non-lethal assistance to the opposition.”
    “We obviously are continuing to work on humanitarian relief to the refugees that have been impacted,” he added.
    Panetta noted the U.S., with assistance from Israel and other countries in the region, also continues to monitor fighting in areas with chemical or biological weapons sites.
    Our main focus right now, he said, has been working with other countries to try to provide whatever assistance we can to the opposition so it can ultimately become not only an effective force, but one that will be “needed once Assad comes down.”

  • gmat

    1. whoa, that’s big.

    2. Right, why would the US provide weapons to the Syrian insurgents, when everybody else in the region is already doing that?

    I’m sure the CIA guys in Turkey are doing their best to keep the wrong weapons out of the wrong hands, but that’s a mug’s game. At least they’ll gain some good intel on who’s doing what.

  • gmat

    Right. I didn’t see anything in Howe’s Diary about the US supplying arms to al qaida.

    In Libya, the main concern was Ghadafy’s stockpile of arms falling into the wrong hands.

    In Syria, the concern was arms from other regional players falling into the wrong hands, which is what the CIA was trying to prevent in Turkey.

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