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Howard Dean: Fiscal Cliff Is The Best Deal Progressives Will Get

By: streiff (Diary)  |  November 30th, 2012 at 03:39 PM  | 

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This morning on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, Howard Dean was interviewed by Joe Scarborough, while presumably Mika Brzezinski cavorted on her desk in a miniskirt, on the “fiscal cliff negotiations.”

HOWARD DEAN: I make the argument that going off the — as you call it the curb, I call it the slope, the press calls it the cliff, is actually the best deal progressive Democrats are going to get. And here’s why. One, we get the Clinton tax rates on everybody. Will it cause a problem? Yes. There will be a short recession, and it will be painful. But two, we get defense cuts. Republicans are never going to agree to that. And three, there are some human services cuts, which we’re not going to like. But it’s the least possible damage.

Now what do we get in exchange? A serious down payment of the deficit. The Wall Street people, who wringing their hands of this, are really full of it because what they’re going to see is a big drop on Wall Street while all the hype comes and then it’s going to be roaring back because finally somebody has done something serious about the deficit.

So, I think the fiscal curb, as you call it, is the best deal that progressive Democrats are going to get. And I think it’s the best deal in the long run, not the short run.

Dean is exactly right. It is the best deal progressives will get and it is also the best deal conservatives will get. The point of a negotiation is that each side gives up something so that they both get a lot more of what they want. We did this when the current deal was cut. The deal was that we let the Bush tax rates expire, giving the Democrats their quick fix of taxes, and we got real cuts in spending. There is no outcome likely to arise in the next month that will improve that deal for either side.

The current proposal by Obama is a joke leaving the GOP with only two choices: capitulate or walk away. There is no reason to think that Howard Dean holds an opinion outside the mainstream of Democrat thought, if they have no intention of negotiating then there is no reason for us to try.

COMMENTS

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  • mtmnd

    Be careful for what you wish.

  • Pingback: Howard Dean: Fiscal Cliff Is The Best Deal Progressives Will Get | Vision America

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  • lonelyinthemiddle

    Howard Dean is letting the cat out of the bag a bit early if you’re a Democratic strategist. The democrats know they have an amazing one-two-three political punch against an already staggering opponent. They want the fiscal cliff to happen, it’s the best of three worlds for them.

    1. They get massive revenue increases as all tax cuts expire
    2. They get massive defense cuts
    3. They get to blame the republicans for any short term economic effects

    Once the cliff happens, they’ll propose emergency re-funding of things that they lost. Ultimately, they will get everything they want by mid-2013. Playing Boehner and Mcconnell for fools again, who seem to always skate to where the puck “used” to be.

  • http://www.bigcontrarian.com Jack

    So far, polling suggests that the public will blame Republicans, not Democrats, if a deal fails to be struck.

  • lonelyinthemiddle

    I guess the problem is that most polling suggests that the Dems will NOT get the lions share of the public wrath. The most recent CNN/ORC poll suggests 45% of respondents said they would blame Congressional Republicans – even though the Democrats control the Senate – while just 34% would blame President Obama.

    Perhaps this can change with better messaging, but there’s a better than average chance that the Republican side gets the blame for short term economic problems at the exact point where folks are positioning for 2014.

  • Viet71

    I don’t watch TV, which is an advantage: I get my news derivatively.

    My take is Americans aren’t following the “fiscal cliff” debate. It’s too complex.

    Too complex for those in the N.E. who have advanced degrees from elite colleges and universities. Who are too busy with family issues to do anything but vote Democratic.

  • Viet71

    Which shows how how poor Republicans are as politicians.

    Old news.

    On November 22, 1963, I returned to my fraternity on the University of Illinois campus as a freshman pledge. Fresh from honors chemistry.

    The President had been killed. I was met with seniors who were Republicans.

    It was an an awful afternoon.

  • Anthony Froyd

    Part of the problem is that too many people pay NO taxes at all. Everyone needs some skin in the game. I say let them expire and rework the tax code. It needs to be done anyway and those people are not our voters so who cares if they are upset? Once Clinton rates have been restored the tax code can be overhauled but it won’t work before that.

  • streiff

    I think this is Martian logic. If you have followed this at all you should know that the GOP is going to be blamed anyway. That is why the administration is refusing to propose any cuts, so they can demagogue it. But the fact is that most of our members are in safe seats and it is two years until the next election. We either settle it now or kick it down the road and fight it again in 2014. BTW, Scott Brown was from Massachusetts. There is nothing about his tenure that is useful in teaching larger lessons other than if you are Republican and luck your way into a Massachusetts senate seat, don’t get too comfortable.

  • snit

    I do not think they *want* to go over the cliff.. but their choices are to do that *or* to let the Republicans hold the 99% hostage to the 1%. That is completely unacceptable.

  • streiff

    thanks for that insight.

  • Bill S

    There are some commenters that you just know wont last.

  • jaykali

    I have come to the realization that there’s no way the middle class tax cuts don’t get renewed. As for everything else, like sequester cuts – that is a if question mark. But look, just always there will be a symbolic vote on the full tax cuts, then a vote on the middle class ones. They will pass both houses. In 2010 republicans had enough leverage to get all of them renewed. Now Obama has the leverage, but at least the middle class ones will be renewed permanently which I think is probably good.

  • littlehouse18

    Let’s save the tape of Dean and keep playing it over and over when poeple get mad about the result.

  • streiff

    I’m sure no one else has thought of this. Thanks.

  • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

    I agree with you they will be renewed, But I do not think it is a good thing. We, the GOP screwed ourselves when, in a series of tax reforms we took millions and millions of working class voters off of the tax rolls. We gave them no “skin in the game”. In other words we handed them to the Democrats. They get to have all the freebees of government and they thin other people are paying the freight. (it is too much for most of them to realize that the costs get passed on ).

  • streiff

    absolutely correct. As Benjamin Franklin said, “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” That is what we did by giving millions of productive citizens no reason to oppose higher income taxes because they aren’t paying them.

  • curtmilr

    So don’t “negotiate”! The goal is, since prudent financial action is not achievable with the
    current makeup of either Party, to shift any new blame off the GOP.
    Remember the story of “The Tar Baby”?
    So the third offer should be to pass a clean bill with the requested tax increase of 3.9% on household incomes over $250K and a 2 Trillion$ debt limit increase (well into 2014). Announce that the President has been given what he asked for, that the GOP does NOT think it will work, but this was his “mandate”, so he gets it.Then adjourn, And Obama & the Dems OWN it, while the loyal opposition has clean hands to resist in the new Congress! If Reid refuses to pass it, say we gave them what they wanted. If the MSM criticizes, say the same thing, and don’t forget to point out the hypocrisy of the MSM criticism!

  • elayman

    I agree. Let Obama try to blame us for passing his commission’s plan. Combined with Obamacare taxes kicking in and the debt ceiling getting raised it becomes more and more difficult over an 8 year recession to continue to deflect criticism from who is truly razing this country into the ground.

  • gmat

    “I don’t watch TV, which is an advantage”

    Definitely puts you ahead of the game. There’s no journalism occurring on TV these days. (OK, Bloomberg’s good. Matt Winkler’s a fiend for accuracy)

  • The_Rebel

    They can start the better messaging by telling the American people that they shouldn’t look for any increase in their pay next year when Obama keeps repeating that he wants to give them a middle class tax cut, and raise taxes on those with incomes over $200,000 or $250,000. We need to explain that the so-called Bush tax cuts from 10 years ago, which are scheduled to expire, will be extended by Obama for the middle class. They need to be told that they will not be receiving more net pay. In fact, their net pay won’t change at all. Most people when they hear they are getting a tax cut think their pay goes up. These people won’t be very happy if a “tax cut” is agreed to and they see nothing additional in their pay check.

    It’s for this reason that Dean would prefer us to go “over the cliff”. Taxes will immediately go up on everyone on January 1, reducing their net pay. Then Obama can give the middle class his tax cut, their net pay will increase (even though only to where it was before January 1), and he will come out smelling like a rose. Don’t be taken in by Dean’s ploy here. He knows how easily the American people are fooled.

  • http://www.redstate.com/wp-admin/user/profile.php docfreeman

    In the
    Scottsboro, Alabama Paper

    Twelve Reasons Why I Voted Democratic

    1. I voted Democratic because I love the fact that I can
    now marry whatever I want. I now may
    marry my Labrador.

    2. I voted Democratic because I believe oil companies’
    profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the Government taxing the same
    gallon of gas at 15% isn’t.

    3. I voted Democratic because I believe the Government
    will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

    4. I voted Democratic because Freedom of Speech is fine
    as long as I agree with what is said & nobody else is offended by it.

    5. I voted Democratic because I’m way too irresponsible
    to own a gun and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from
    murderers and thieves.

    6. I voted Democratic because I believe that people who
    can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps
    will melt away in 10 years if I don’t start driving a Prius.

    7. I voted Democratic because I’m not concerned about
    millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates
    alive.

    8. I voted Democratic because I think illegal aliens have
    right to free health care, education and Social Security benefits, and we
    should take away the Social Security from those who paid into it.

    9. I voted Democratic because I believe that businesses
    should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest
    away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit.

    10 I voted Democratic because I believe liberal Judges
    need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who
    would never get their agendas past the voters.

    11 I voted Democratic because I think that it’s better to
    pay billions for their oil to people who hate us but not drill our own because
    it might upset some endangered beetle, spotted owl, gopher or fish.

    12 I* voted Democratic because my head is so firmly
    misplaced toward the south end of my body it’s unlikely that I’ll ever have
    another point of view.

    No trees, Spotted Owls, or Red Cock-headed Woodpeckers
    were harmed in the sending of this message

    James W. Anderson

    Talladega AL

  • namohalko

    My father has not paid federal taxes in 10 years because he does not make enough. Having no skin in the game has not led him to vote Democrat though. I think the sequester thing is probably good in the long run because it forces a compromise.

  • streiff

    n=1 is not a pattern. I would agree that not all people who don’t pay federal income vote Democrat, as a matter of principle paying taxes gives people more interest in what is happening politically. This is why it is much harder for a county to pass a bond issue than it is for the Feds to borrow billions.

  • CarolT

    Obama is out there visiting a toy factory yesterday, acting like he’s Santa. I heard him say he’s keeping a list of who is naughty and nice.
    I have never seen a more vindictive man as president, and he keeps a “kill list”. I don’t know why the republicans aren’t making big deal on his “kill list”.

    Any takers on how long that toy factory stays in business? It seems that most factories he visits sooner or later go belly up.

  • bobalu

    “That is why the administration is refusing to propose any cuts …”
    The Republicans are demanding spending cuts but are not coming up with any specifics because they don’t want their fingerprints on unpopular entitlement cuts, or so I’ve read. Seems that they lack the courage of their convictions especially if, as you say “our members are in safe seats”. Do you see a possibility for a deal if they don’t put anything specific on the table?

  • thagg

    I don’t think that the GOP has two choices, to capitulate or walk away. They could conceivably propose an alternative. I know that isn’t what they typically do, but it’s a theoretical possibility that the legislators can, you know, legislate.

  • adumas

    Does Dean and company honestly believe that the pitiful amount of revenue generated from the “most massive tax increase in our history” can possibly the offset the $trillion-plus deficits that have become our new norm?

  • adumas

    Actually, it’s the 98% being pitted against the 2%, but when mob mentality wins out over sanity to create division among Americans, who’s counting?

  • adumas

    dude, that was beautiful…(sniff).

  • gmat

    Deans wrong if he thinks “there will be a short recession.” The recession already started 5 months ago.

    http://www.businesscycle.com/ecri-news-events/news-details/economic-cycle-research-us-recession-start

  • jaykali

    Well, I suppose your right in one sense. But I mean I guess it was inevitable bc Republicans are the “low tax” party. You could say that continually cutting taxes lead to the ruin of the party like Democratic spending/taxes will lead to the ruin of our society.

    But that’s where we are. I still think most conservatives would still support citizens having their own money over the government wasting it.

    In your scenario, going “over the cliff” is the best scenario. A lot of spending gets slashed across the board, and taxes go up on a lot of people who aren’t used to paying taxes. But that won’t happen for the reasons I listed. You have bi-partisan agreement that middle classes taxes should be renewed, so they will.

  • wbcoleman

    Here! Here! Why are we on defense?

  • Kyle-MI

    I think it was a squeeze from both sides. The GOP wanted tax cuts and the Dems kept on accusing the GOP of tax cuts for the rich (or more tax cuts for the rich than for the middle class). To get the tax cuts we wanted, we had to cut also at the lower end to keep the Dems at bay. Party dynamics have painted the US into a corner.

  • Kyle-MI

    They have proposed alternatives. The House GOP keeps on passing alternatives, but the Senate never votes on them and the MSM is silent.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Our (Congressional Republicans’, actually) job here is not to pass an alternative anymore, although someone who wants to run for higher office, either within Congress itself or elsewhere, might want to rack up some achievements. (Looking at you, Rep. Ryan. You can’t run on a budget that balances decades later and has no specific base-broadening tax reform measures. And Sen. Rubio, you can’t run on DREAM and Beltway hot air. And Sen. Ayotte, you can’t run on blocking Susan Rice. And Sen. McConnell and Speaker Boehner, you can’t run on being hated by everyone.)

    Our job is now to draw a clear line in the sand.