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Unchanged: Americans Are Still Fleeing High-Tax, Forced-Unionism States With Good Reason

Despite Chris Christie, New Jersey tops the list of worst places...

Like some sort of STD communicable disease, as they have for decades, Americans are still finding union-dominated states that force workers to pay unions (or be fired) very unattractive to live in and, as a result, are leaving by the droves.

According to an annual study conducted by the moving company United Van Lines, the top ten states that Americans are fleeing from continue to be those states that do not have Right-to-Work laws.

In fact, according to UVL’s study, the Top Ten states with the highest outbound traffic are forced-unionism states:

MOVING OUT
The top-five outbound states for 2012 were:

  • New Jersey
  • Illinois
  • West Virginia
  • New York
  • New Mexico

New Jersey (62 percent) displaced the outbound leader from last year, Illinois (60 percent) reclaiming the top spot for high-outbound migration that it held in 2010.

The Northeast is the most well-represented region on the high-outbound traffic list. In addition to New Jersey, New York (58 percent), Maine (56 percent) and Connecticut (56 percent) are also included.

Michigan (58 percent) and Wisconsin (55 percent) along with Illinois represented the Great Lakes region. Michigan fell to the No. 6 from the No. 4 spot it held in 2011. Previously, it had claimed the top outbound spot every year from 2006-2009.

Kentucky (55 percent) joined West Virginia (58 percent) as the only Southern states to appear on the high outbound list. New Mexico (58 percent) was the only Western state to appear on the list. [Emphasis added.]

A Self Perpetuating, Vicious Circle.

The fact that forced-union states have been losing taxpayers shouldn’t come as a surprise. The trend has been occurring for decades. Year after year, taxpayers are merely moving to where there is a more favorable climate–both literally and figuratively.

Typically, where there are laws giving union bosses the power to force workers to pay unions or be fired, union bosses also have the power to get politicians elected that will raise taxes and enact legislation that make the state unattractive to running a business.

As a result, when businesses find a state hostile to business, they either close or move–leaving fewer jobs in the state.

Naturally, like nomads, when there is no food (or work) to hunt for, people follow the jobs–or, like suckling pigs, end up being fed by the nanny state, which then imposes a greater burden on the remaining producers–individuals and business alike.

Forced Unionism Sucks Economic Life From States

For an example on how union dominance can destroy a state, one need to look no further than New Jersey.

Largely known more for its big hair, bad drivers, rude residents and more “colorful” citizens (like Jon Bon Jovi, Bruce Springsteen, Tony Soprano, The Situation and Snooki), New Jersey is the epitome of a state controlled by unions.

As such, despite GOP Governor Chris Christie, the relationship between union bosses and New Jersey’s Democrat politicians is tight.

As an example, State Senate President Steve Sweeney is a union representative and, prior to becoming a getting elected, Chris Christie’s predecessor, disgraced 1%-er Jon Corzine, had a very public relationship with the president of the state’s largest public-sector union that raised numerous questions during his administration.

Now, with the nation’s 4th largest debt among the states ($282 billion in the hole), life for New Jersey’s taxpayers is expensive to say the least–and it does not look like that fact will change anytime soon.

As the nation’s most densely populated state, New Jersey taxpayers are saddled with the highest property taxes in the nation, the Garbage Garden State is also rated among the highest business-tax states and falls to within the top ten of states that impose the highest tax burden overall.

[Conversely, Right-to-Work South Carolina imposes the least amount of tax burden on its residents.]

In fact, according to USA Today, the states with the highest tax burdens are all forced unionism states: Pennsylvania, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, California, Connecticut, New Jersey, and New York.

Union Political Dominance: A Bi-partisan Economic Malaise

Although several of these states have elected Republican governors in recent years [*and Michigan will soon be a Right-to-Work state], several are still (or, until recently) controlled by Democrat legislatures. As a result, merely having Republicans in control is not enough to reverse the decades of the socialist Big Government policies, high taxes and deficits brought about by union influence.

In New Jersey’s case, for example, while moderate Republican Chris Christie has done reasonably well to balance budgets, New Jersey still sucks for taxpayers and businesses.

In fact, while it has risen from the 50th worst place in the nation to do business to 49th, it is only because New York has dropped to 50th.

As noted Bloomberg [the publication, not the mayor] noted:

[Christie's] reductions in aid to schools and local governments, combined with cuts to property tax rebate programs, have pushed up the average property-tax bill by 20 percent from 2009, according to state data. New Jersey has the highest property taxes in the nation at an average of $7,759 in 2011, and residents making as much as $200,000 pay more in real estate levies than income taxes, according to legislative budget analysts.

Given that the best workers are to be found in Right-to-Work states, according to one survey, the fact that so many are fleeing the cold nanny states of the North to move to warmer Right-to-Work states, poses danger for those states on the receiving end of the exodus.

The danger for Right-to-Work natives, as well as the economic well-being for the Right-to-Work states receiving those fleeing forced-unionism states, is that the forced-unionism immigrants bring with them the same bad economic policies of their former home states.

__________________

“Truth isn’t mean. It’s truth.”
Andrew Breitbart (1969-2012)

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COMMENTS

  • donnybrooke

    “The danger for Right-to-Work natives, as well as the economic well-being
    for the Right-to-Work states receiving those fleeing forced-unionism
    states is that the immigrants bring with them the same bad economic
    policies of their former home states.”

    Reminds me of “The Grapes of Wrath”. Dust Bowl farmers flee the economic hardships of their native states to go to California where they live in New Deal Government Relocation Camps and form Unions to engage in violence trying to get higher wages.

    Are we there yet?

  • gunnyg2002

    While this is all well and good, many of those fleeing these states bring the liberal virus with them, and start voting stupidly, ushering in the same trash they fled from in the first place! Liberalism IS A MENTAL DISORDER!

  • raginpatriot

    Left RI in 2009. Only regret my wife and I have is not having done so years earlier. The out-migration numbers of RI would look much, much worse but for the influx of “citizen” and “undocumented” welfare “clients” moving in to partake of that state’s generous benefits. The state economic policy seems to be to import welfare recipients and export college graduates. Like CA, a preview of where Obama is (intentionally) taking the rest of the country — my escape to the Southeast may have only provided temporary respite from Democrat decline.

  • DerKrieger

    Exactly the number one danger of being a business friendly Red state. With businesses inevitably come economic migrants from Lefty Blue states who continue to vote for economically destructive, Democrat politicians. They are incapable of connecting cause and effect. They should be forbidden from voting or a few years.

    North Carolina is exhibit A. Do you think NC could elect Jesse Helms today?

    My answer? http://www.redstate.com/derkrieger/2012/11/26/the-war-is-lost-time-to-establish-a-red-state-redoubt/

  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    Although the Grapes of Wrath did not come to mind with that paragraph, the influx of Lefties from California to Arizona and Texas, or Northern liberals into the FL, NC & VA did.

  • northfloridawriter

    Gunnyg is right. Here in Florida we get flooded with people from blue states who always say how great it was where they came from. Then why are they here?
    Our schools are overloaded but the long term folks aren’t interested in taxes being raised, nor am I. So if you want to come down and visit, or you truly want less government, then you’re welcome. But if your plan is to ruin the Sunshine State like the one you left, kindly stay where you are. We want more freedom and less government intervention, not more. And we have no desire to institute a state income tax.
    And our hard working folks don’t need any worthless unions, either. They are more than capable of handling their own destiny without strikes, work slowdowns, or physical threats.
    Let’s keep the sun shining brightly in Sunny Florida, thank you very much.

  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    Is Rhode Island still a state? The last time I spent passing through there, I thought it had been annexed as a mere rest stop for New Yorkers on their way to Nantucket. Sorry. :)

  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    …many of those fleeing these states bring the liberal virus with them, and start voting stupidly, ushering in the same trash they fled from in the first place!

    They are incapable of connecting cause and effect. They should be forbidden from voting or a few years….

    …Agreed X 2.

  • raginpatriot

    Well, let’s just say that it’s a petri dish for Democrat policies: industrial decline / business exodus precipitated by the spiraling taxes attributable to ever-expanding hoards of welfare recipients and their fatherless progeny, and public sector unions (who enjoy a symbiotic relationship as their ranks swell to “serve” the welfare clients and “educate” their children … with the bonus of the extra staff required for ESL and special needs education). And then there’s its long history of political corruption …

    Yes it’s a state — but someplace has to serve as the political equivalent of a trailer park for the other 49 states.

    Hope you enjoyed the potholed roads and failing bridges as you passed through — the place could also serve as inspiration for the early chapters of Atlas Shrugged as the infrastructure and economy decline, yet the clueless population doesn’t understand cause and effect.

  • Bob_Munck

    The study that’s the basis of this article just looked at people using United Van Lines to move. That’s obviously leaving out entire economic classes, and there’s no reason to believe that the population surveyed is typical of the entire population.

    In other words, this entire discussion is based on fantasy.

  • smbn

    Hilarious….I guess that’s what happens when you don’t believe in government funded or scientific studies. So because the most amount of United Van Lines were rented by people moving out of New Jersey that means NJ tops the list of worst places? Ha!

  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    The study that’s the basis of this article just looked at people using United Van Lines to move.

    Thus, the reason for all the other links.

  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    No, New Jersey is at (or near) the top of just about every “worst” list out there.

  • Bob_Munck

    Thus, the reason for all the other links.>

    Huh? None of them do anything to make the United Van Lines survey less invalid. Neither does the link you gave.

    The US Census shows that the populations of those states — those that the article says people are fleeing — have continued to grow at a pretty steady pace. Those figures contradict the UVL survey.

    BTW, New Jersey can be a pretty nice place to live. I have quite a few friends at Bell Labs and the high-tech corridors around Ft. Monmouth and Camden, and they’re obviously living in a modern, civilized state. Contrast that to the third-world, 19th century pigpens like Mississippi, Louisiana, and West Virginia. (I know, civilization scares you right-wingers, doesn’t it?)

  • celador2

    Liberals that spill over into conservative arenas have a strong record of taking over We have a mixed record at best of holding firm and standing our ground when liberals move in. I am not pleased to see liberals fllee into conservative states for any reason,
    The same flight thing happens inside a state. Chicago Suburbs just a few ywars ago was strong right Now a spill over of Hispanic drug cartels has grown crime and other

    Democrats have turned the Hassert and Hyde CDs more liberal, just like that area.
    As people who want to work exit Illinois they may move to a state that is conservative and take a right to work job. The question is will these workers join the natives or try and impose liberal standards and politics.

    I would like to see a’ hire local and regiona’l policy in right to work states.
    Employers would hire more conservatives from the area and not import flaming Democrats from Illiniois.

  • greyeagle

    Well these liberals have been trying to take over here in Florida. It is a constant fight. They bring their failed ideas and try to implement them here.

  • sliverlining

    Unions used to NOT suck. Now they have to be defended and justified constantly.

    That says a lot about how “good” they really are for the average person. It doesn’t even take polls, surveys, statistics, etc. to figure that out.

    Defend on . . .

  • celador2

    Thumbs Up!

  • celador2

    Wisconsin is not right to work, The massiive recalls of state senators, the governor and Lt Gov over ,limiting colellctive bargainig show the power of an entrenched class of government workers and the services they provide. Wisconsin has fifth highest taxes in nation and break the backs of taxpayers. We lost much of our industruial base and factories that thrived on Lake Michigan.

    The Repubs have made some improvement for business but the state is not that friendly to anyone but gov workers and those they serve. Its still an uphill swin. to lower taxes. Lowering business taxes may be on the table but not much more. Walker held the line on raising taxes as Ds had done but they are still too high. He still has a large budget any D could admire.

    Gv Walker says he will not go for right to work. He has a larger majority in Senate and Assembly than before the recalls. Still despite the entitlemment spending much for young and healthy there may be hope for the state if some of the crippling taxes are lowered.

    And a radical thought.There will only be hope for the state whrn some of these crippling entitlements for young and healthy are removed.

  • celador2

    Thanks for the reminder of this toxic process.

  • edintexas

    Indeed it did. During the Carter years many people fled the “rust belt” to Texas for work. When many arrived they said “No Income Tax, that’s great!” After a couple of years you could hear those same people saying “Back in (fill in a “rust belt” state) the state/county/township/city did X, Y and Z for me, why doesn’t Texas/county/city do that for me here?”

  • edintexas

    So nice to hear from the “embrace diversity” crowd. Such a contrast to the nasty old right-wingers from 19th century pigpens, with no manners, who constantly make rude comments about others.

  • celador2

    Unions have done good and necessary work as industry developed in late 1800s through 1930s. Look only to mining coal and see how every mine was built on blood and life threatening work. The United Mine Workers were proud Americans who made a difference in work conditions and quality of life. And they still can be relevant as coal is an abundant resource..
    Unions were in an adervarial realtionship with capital and mine owners, Unions cared about long hours, a decent wage and safety. They were part of the free market process and provided CHECK ON EXPLOITATION BY MINE OWNERS imo.

  • whitetop

    Yes, we still have to be vigilant against some legislator trying to get a state income tax passed.

  • celador2

    Thumbs up!
    We have a high state income tax and they suck the life blood out of you. If they have money the taxers will spend it. Keep it.

  • celador2

    Do you contest the assertion that large numbers of NJ residents move and relocate?
    Florida is a visible relocation site.

  • northcack34

    So very true. You cannot vote for liberal politicians up North, get dismayed over the high taxes and bad economic policies they implement, then move South and vote for the same type of pols down here. NC used to be reliably GOP at the presidential level; not so any more, due to the above happening. Also, in the last 20 years (1993-2013), Massachusetts has had more Republican governors (4) than has North Carolina (0). Seriously?!?! Massachusetts?!?! So, my dear transplanted Yankee friends, if you’re trying to escape the bad economy up North but move down here and continue to vote for tax-and-spend politicians, please remember that I-95 runs both ways. Oh, and by the way, there will be a push for NC’s new Republican legislature AND governor to put a measure on the ballot that would enshrine the state’s right-to-work status in the state constitution: http://americansforprosperity.org/north-carolina/newsroom/afp-north-carolina-congratulates-michigan-afp-on-right-to-work/

  • northcack34

    Agreed. We conservatives do a great job of propping up our feet the day after the even-numbered November elections, letting out a sigh of relief, and saying, “we’ll get ‘em in 2 years.” For the Left, it’s a 365-days-a-year/every-year proposition. If we wait to the spring of 2014 to get active, we’re already batting from behind…WAY behind.
    And local boards that are often elected in odd-numbered years – school boards, city/town council, etc. – are frequently populated by liberals trying to get a foodhold in policymaking positions. Every liberal schoolboard member wants to be on the city council, then wants to run for county commissioner, then the state legislature, then statewide office, then Congress, etc. And these local boards are COUNTING on people not to get active, not to attend these board meetings, not to remember the board members’ votes and actions, and not to hold them accountable. They are counting on people to stay home, get the summary of the boards’ actions and meetings from the fawning liberal media, yawn, and go on with their lives.
    No more. 2013 is NOT an off-year for conservatives!!! Get active, pay attention to these local boards and what they do, heck – run for one of these positions yourself. All these positions matter, whether it’s school board, town council, or dogcatcher. At a minimum, we need to DOUBLE our efforts this year, not take it off and “rest up” for 2014.

  • OhioHistorian

    LUR, a couple disagreements with you.

    First one, I think the JOBS are what are fleeing the state first. The people follow the jobs, hence the movement.

    Second, while Ohio is forced unionization, you can almost draw a line across the top 1/3 of the state and around Cincinnati and see a similar trend of people moving away from the urban areas because of the “forced unionization” in those areas. The unionization I really fear is that of the public sector; unfortunately, our current Governor did not choose to defend his battles well, so we may have lost that one at least for now.

  • celador2

    Gv John Kasich said too many times as he went after seniority.

    “I can not fire a sargent without firing 20 patrolmen first.”

    He took a hatchet to the bloat of public workers pension funds. He also included fire and police and was fixated on seniority. I was confused about his policy since police pecking order is also based on excperience job performance as well as time on the job. A chain of command can be fragile and Kasich seemed to threaten upheaval all to save a dime.
    .
    The Ohio voters who repealed Obamacare also repealed Kasich’s law limiting collective bargaining and seniority. Maybe he can try again with a more modest focused target like Wisconsin did and exempt police and fire.

  • skip1982

    But you see, lefties don’t think their policies are the cause of their unhappiness up North. They think it is just luck of the draw that their policies didn’t succeed there.

  • msabul

    This implied data is really important but is there a specific correlation not just a generic ‘highest move to; highest move out’ states? i.e. Does data show the majority fleeing from California are all going to one of the Right to Work States, etc. This needs to be clarified and nailed or else the libs will make mince meat of us once again.

  • Bob_Munck

    Do you contest the assertion that large numbers of NJ residents move and relocate?

    No. Large numbers of people in every state move and relocate. NJ’s population is growing, and the number of people working high-pay, high-skill jobs in NJ is growing. The article above tries to imply that that’s not true, but offers no facts to support the claim.

    Florida is a visible relocation site.

    Definitely. I’m pre-baby-boom (currently 67) and I know a lot of people who are retiring to FL. What’s your point?

  • rightlane1111

    Are you ever right on that one. They dump all their garbage ideas and then come to another state and do the same thing. What was it that Einstein said about insanity.

  • celador2

    I have no claim but an observation that large numbers of NJ residents move to Florida. We know that as a fact or at least popular perception and personal contacts. There are many reasons people live there year round. some reasons are mild winter, moblie homes are possible and low taxes re income taxes but a high sales tax.

    Florida picked up two CDs at least. Ohio lost two. Florida is growing residents while Ohio lost some. However, FL is growing retirees and has since the 1960s. We can not tell how many job seekers move into Florida however, just retirees.

    Other states in south and west have economic booms and are growing also but not so much from retirees. These many states are the one picking up new workers in right to work businesses.

    Your point is that NJ has high tech jobs and employs many workers. NJ is still a productive site despite union laws and taxes. That is a valid point.

  • Bob_Munck

    These many states are the one picking up new workers in right to work businesses.

    If you can’t tell how many of those moving to Florida are job-seekers and how many are retirees, how can you tell for the other states? People tend to retire to places that are warm and where the cost of living for retirees is low; that generally means they move from high-population states in the northeast to low-population states in the south and west. Right-to-work laws and unions are not a factor.

    I’d note that an influx of retirees also creates new jobs, but they’re generally low-paying jobs in the service and health care sectors. Also doctors and house builders, but the latter is kept down by the turnover in housing as the older retirees die.

  • uselogic

    Isn’t that the truth. Central Florida native, here. Even the Dems here were once reasonably centrist; you could talk to them. No longer. The fact that Alan Grayson moved (not really) into another district and got elected again shows where we’re headed locally.

    The progressive/lib/Dem horde reminds me of Bill Pullman’s line as President in Independence Day… I saw its thoughts. I saw what they’re planning to do. They’re like locusts. They’re moving from planet to planet… their whole civilization. After they’ve consumed every natural resource, they move on… and we’re next.

    Trolls can go ahead and accuse me of hate speech but I like his next line…
    Nuke ‘em. Let’s nuke the bastards.

  • sliverlining

    Not every job is essential and dangerous work being exploited by robber barons from 1892. Some unions exist merely to take more money and ease the job and protect even the most questionable people. Is this such a “noble” cause as to require my support just because the word union is evoked? They are doing the same as the evil capitalists, are they not?

    Therefore I can hate both since if I am not in “their” union and cannot work in “their” so-called industry. They both suck, right? I mean as an outsider . . .

  • Bob_Munck

    That special exemption from [property taxes] for those who teach at Brown probably aided your positive perspective.

    Nah. There was a tiny exemption for property taxes that was written into the state charter by King George 250 years ago, but it was only about $10 and we were required to waive it starting in 1965.

    to move up the middle-class ladder swimming against the tide

    It worked out OK. I got a job at NRL through the recommendations of one of my old students, then moved on to DARPA and the Pentagon. I won’t try to put that in the terms of your mixed metaphor.

    You really believe a lot of the nonsense that Fox and Limbaugh feed you.

  • donnybrooke

    Although “The Grapes of Wrath” is not completely analogous to the current situation (i.e., the hardships were caused by weather conditions, and not government meddling — though there might be a case for that), it still paints a picture of the oppressed fighting against the evil, rich bankers, plus the rich land owners in California. I suggest re-reading this novel in wake of the events of the past few years.

    The only bright side I see to this is that spreading the liberal base out among more conservative states may serve to thin their power. Having them concentrated in an area tends to cause untold hardships.

    Always enjoy your articles, LUR. Keep up the good work!

  • vandalii

    That’s what college profs have been feeding students for decades now. “Communism didn’t really fail, is just didn’t work in the USSR. We should do it here in the USA…”
    Actual understanding of cause and effect is not a liberal strength. Invalid cause and effect such as Amendment 2 –> Sandy Hook is as close as they can come for the most part…

  • raginpatriot

    >>You really believe a lot of the nonsense that Fox and Limbaugh feed you

    More like: 1) having spent several decades living in RI and so witnessing the economic decline and populace dumbing-down that occurs with Progressivism; 2) outgrowing the youthful naivete of “liberalism” (in the non-classical sense) a/k/a “Progressivism” today; 3) much reading of history and related (Gulag Archipelago; Hayek; Rand; Mises; “Radical in Chief” by Stanley Kurtz; “Shadow Party” by David Horowitz; “Liberal Fascism” by Jonah Goldberg and on and on; 4) preferring to inform my outlook and conduct myself in accord with reality, historical perspective and knowledge of human nature, seasoned with some religious faith, rather than subscribe to the utopian fantasy and nascent totalitarianism that accompanies progressivism / collectivism.

  • MF

    Coldwarrior, is that you? ;-) Well, northcack34 is singing from the same lyrics sheet! Agree completely.

  • MF

    Actually, nc34, I’m guessing the cause is that the universities are becoming more and more exclusively liberal, and the Research Triangle Park area is bluer and bluer, with the rest of NC pretty strongly red.

  • celador2

    No, I can not tell you how many movers are job seekers or retirees from north to west and south including Florida. But we know Florida is retiree haven with millions living in various degrees of retirements in and out of retiree communities. Phoenix, Arizona and some of that state’s cities were also popular as retirement sites in past years.

    I can tell you my state Wisconsin lost a CD 2000 and Ohio lost two 2010. Ohio is about half the size and twice the pop of Wisconsin. Its not due to seniors entirely we see population loss. We lack the factory jobs we once had both states were industrial and Wisconsin is also a farm state

    There were many high tech jobs with factories but factories spawn jobs for entire communities and their growth is stagnated across the industrialized midwest. No one thinks they are gone forever and we wait for them to return.

  • Bob_Munck

    Its not due to seniors entirely [that Wisconsin sees] population loss.

    But Wisconsin is not seeing population loss. According to the US Census, the population of Wisconsin grew 9.6% from 1990 to 2000 and 6.5% from 2000 to 2010, and has continued to grow at about that same rate. You lost congressional seats because you didn’t grow as fast as other states, probably because the population of Wisconsin is older and whiter than the nation as a whole. (These things are also true for Ohio.)

    Btw, my father worked in iron foundries in Beloit, Eau Claire, and Wausau; his potential jobs started leaving the state and the country in the 70′s.

  • Bob_Munck

    Obviously the thing changing all this time was your attitude and prejudices, not Rhode Island. I know you didn’t think you were doing so, but you did a wonderful job of proving my point. You’re actually willing to reference Jonah Goldberg?

    Do you have any actual facts to back up your rant?

  • raginpatriot

    >>”You’re actually willing to reference Jonah Goldberg?”

    Yes I’m more than happy to reference Jonah Goldberg — the cited book was more than adequately filled with citations to source material.

    >>”Do you have any actual facts to back up your rant?”

    Well, for starters, RI for years has consistently been ranked as one of the worst states for business, by multiple ranking organizations.

    It’s roads and bridges are rated at or near the worst in the country.

    It is one of two states losing population (people voting with their feet).

    It’s taxes (particularly property taxes) are amongst the highest in the country (in spite of which the public education system and infrastructure stink).

    Even after the “pension reform” RI remains one of the most per capita indebted states in the country.

    As to political corruption, besides the widespread nepotism (e.g., the Harwoods), there’s twice felon Buddy Cianci and Operation Dollar Bill (the federal investigation), RISDIC and the fallout from that.

    Other that its quaint scenery and nice array of restaurants — best enjoyed via visiting or a second home, not a place where one has taxable residency or maintains a business operation — what “facts” can you have to refute my “rant?”

    >>I know you didn’t think you were doing so, but you did a wonderful job of proving my point.

    And what point was that? That you taught at Brown (which is a non-profit not really impacted by the RI economy or its economic policies, as its revenue comes from out of state / out of country students), and then in your particular situation you did fine on the job front by leaving RI and going to work for the federal government?

  • Jack_Savage

    How about your facts, pal? Did you know that the IRS no longer keeps track of movements in and out of US counties, so fools like you can live in the fantasy that the Northeast and other forced unionized states are doing A-OK? What’s going to happen when the transfer of taxpayer money to blue states, otherwise known as “the stimulus” stops, and all the idiots up there make the riots in Greece look like nap time in kindergarten?

    So why don’t you shake loose some facts and stats homeboy, proving how swell things are up your way? And if you don’t mind convincing all the jerks moving down here to return to your fetid little promised land, we would really be much obliged.

    Being a smartass is not the same thing as being smart. Remember that.

  • Jack_Savage

    New Jersey? A modern, civilized state? With such paragons of intelligence as “The Situation” and “Snooki”?

    You’ve never been outside your comfy little whites-only leftist bubble, so don’t pretend you have any clue to what lies outside the mass transit system in whatever little communist enclave you slither around in.

  • Sir Aaron

    I’m not sure the problem is unions but rather government support of unions. If Unions had to make it on their own, there probably wouldn’t be the same problems. Most of us have “unions” in a sense. We just call them professional associations. Not quite the same animal but serves many of the original purposes of unions.

  • Bob_Munck

    With such paragons of intelligence as “The Situation” and “Snooki”?

    Jersey Shore is produced by a company in Burbank, CA. “The Situation” is played by an actor from Staten Island and “Snooki” by an actress from Santiago, Chile. It’s not clear what that says about the culture or intelligence of the residents of New Jersey. The people I knew at Bell Labs, Ft. Monmouth C4ISR, and the Aegis project at RCA seemed fairly smart.

    You’ve never been outside your comfy little whites-only leftist bubble

    I’m from the town of Hot Springs in the Black Hills of South Dakota. I’ve lived in SD, WI, KS, TX, PA, RI, MA, and now Virginia; also in London, Antwerp, Trondheim, Linz, and Tokyo. How about you?

  • checkmate2012

    I thought you meant when Rush spoke of an exit fee from broke liberal states! It was tongue-in-cheek (I think) since he compared it to the old Marxist days, but it does have merit. Why should they get to flee and then infect red states when they DID build that! And then they want to build it all over again in their new-found state! Penalty to the voters of a state for not stopping the madness! (but not wcp!)

  • lfarmer

    From what I’ve read, a lot of the people leaving the states mentioned are working-class whites who are doing so because they don’t feel as culturally comfortable in places with ever-higher minority populations – states which are becoming more liberal and secular too. I’m sure some leave because of taxes (for this you do cite some data) but it doesn’t have much to do with laws about paying union dues (which btw are to prevent freeloading on wages, benefits and working conditions achieved through collective bargaining). Have you got any data showing that this is a reason?

  • Melody Warbington

    Nobody cares where you’ve lived. Judging from your arrogant and biased remarks, I’m going to assume the chances you’ll ever move to my home state (TN) or my current state of residence (AL) are slim to none. Just another blessing to add to my count for 2013 while I cling to my Bible and guns (yep, that’s plural). Bless your heart.

  • Melody Warbington

    Jack, forget Snooki & The Situation. New Jersey: Home of Bob Menendez and Jon Corzine.

  • checkmate2012

    Ifarmer- Really? I respect farmers as was my heritage in TX, but now we have two farmers, federalfarmer or some such, spewing nonsense. The only folk leaving the
    “culturally comfortable in places with ever-higher minority populations – states” are the northern states! Many of us white folk in the southern states have neighbors, friends and workers that are Hispanic or other ethnicity and like their contributions…for decades. It’s only recently that immigrants are moving to your states and NOW you’re uncomfortable? So the so-called libs, those that preach R’s are hatelful, being from the supposed progessive thinking and most tolerant states that control one’s every action, are moving because they are “uncomfortable”? Nice tolerance of the left- not. Just proves once again that libs are only tolerant of their own lefty kind. Makes me sick! I hope you never move to Texas.

  • duncer

    Most public union employees move to low cost of living right to work states shortly after retiring and do not change political party when doing so. Many are trapped right now because they can not dell their house but as soon as they can ,you can expect more exodus.

  • checkmate2012

    Yes, by a whopping .3% per the Census Bureau:

    Population, percent change, April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34000.html

  • checkmate2012

    It’s not a “new thought” for me. I stand by what I said. I know many good conservatives here on RS that live in blue states, but that doesn’t discount the fact that the poster I responded to is slanted now that there’s more immigrants up north. So they finally got a great awakening and are now exiting due to the influx? This is exactly what we’ve been dealing with in the south forever yet the prez and the D’s want to make it legal and have an open border…the more the merrier. And yes, a state is to blame when they turn a blind eye, open maternity hotels and provide sanctity. Welcome aboard northern states!

  • Bob_Munck

    by a whopping .3% per the Census Bureau:

    Growth is growth; it’s the opposite of “people fleeing by the droves” as the article above claimed. If the article were true, that number would be negative, not just small.

  • Bob_Munck

    proving how swell things are up your way?

    Northern Virginia is in pretty good shape, given all the government and defense industry work. Thank you for your concern, but it isn’t necessary.

  • checkmate2012

    Melody, some people just don’t get the tolerant melting pot of the south. Bless them and we’ll count our blessings that the arrogant ones never move here. I-95N is a good route for many that want to re-make our world.

  • checkmate2012

    Fine. But you ruffled alot of feathers here with you dissing the south with this quote from you, “Contrast that to the third-world, 19th century pigpens like Mississippi, Louisiana, and West Virginia. (I know, civilization scares you right-wingers, doesn’t it?)” . Maybe if you tried not to be so worldly smug and call the states with real people pigpens. In reality, it’s mostly the most liberal blue states that are wallowing in their statist utopian pig sty that expect the rest of us taxpayers to feed them money for their excessive bloated pension plans and out of control cronyism. Stay north and smug and away from states with diversity like MS, LA and WV. .

  • checkmate2012

    silverlining, please don’t equate union intentions with capitalists, that mostly are not evil unless they intentionally mislead their value. Unions served a valent purpose in the 1800′s and early 1900′s by protecting workers from actual harm. Now days, we have hundreds of laws to protect workers without the need of a union. Companies provide a good or service that people voluntarily purchase and workers agree to work there at a given rate. There is no coercion in capitalism yet there is in unions. So no, they don’t both suck.

  • checkmate2012

    Of course it is. It’s the belly of the beast being fed by the Leviathan, aka the Fed. What goes around comes around.

  • Bill S

    Been a few days since I’ve had a chance to gak a leftist. Feels good to be back in the saddle.

  • Jack_Savage

    Speaking on behalf of my friends and family in Virginia, is there any chance you can head back to South Dakota? Or better yet, Antwerp?

    I notice that you have never lived in LA, WVA or MS, yet you claim know an awful lot about them (19th century, blah blah blah). Actually, now that I think about it, you don’t, so maybe you could just shut up about your warped perceptions of right-to-work-states. Deal?

  • Jack_Savage

    Ahhh….now I understand. Another lib moving to a right-to-work state, then complaining about the politics in right-to-work states. Typical blowhard hypocrite, who unwittingly proved the point of the post better than anyone could.

    Northern Virginia may be in pretty good shape, but it didn’t have a damn thing to do with you. Decent people who came before you paved the way in Virginia, and now idiots are repaying them by turning a great southern state into a business unfriendly, government parasite haven. Congratulations.

  • Jack_Savage

    Ahh yes – and God knows how many Teamsters / Mafia / Union Thugs. Really a place to brag about.

  • Jack_Savage

    I really hate that you are gone, since you didn’t have a chance to say “Thank You” to all of us in right-to-work states and “Keep Up The Fight” to those of us who aren’t, but I couldn’t let yet another lame-ass comment go unchallenged.

    If the population is growing by 4% nationally, and the population of a state is growing at 0.3%, I would hardly call that a robust defense of the policies of that state. When you consider that the “stability” of the population is caused by productive, skilled workers fleeing the state while being replaced by liberal, low information government parasites, your attempt at smoothing over liberal failures really comes up hollow.

    Antwerp. Tokyo. PLEASE. Anywhere but The Old Dominion. PLEASE.

    And by the way, what John Boehner said to Harry Reid.

  • Jack_Savage

    Really? Was he in a union? And the jobs left anyway? Unfathomable!

    Hmmm…what is 2+2….hmmmm…..I can’t figure it out…..2+2…..hmmmm…..geez, 2+2……

  • Jack_Savage

    And a last one for the road, Bobby:

    “Northern Virginia is in pretty good shape…”

    And from me:

    “…don’t pretend you have any clue to what lies outside the mass transit system in whatever little communist enclave you slither around in.”

    Do I have to be right ALL the time? I guess so.

  • https://profiles.google.com/BobMunck/about Bob Munck

    So you folks don’t feel your beliefs are strong enough to stand up to someone arguing against them? Cowards.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Read the posting rules. We’re not here to listen to any of your crap. Not that that would matter to people such as yourself who believe they are above following rules. I’ll take ten of the “cowards” here over one of your ilk.

  • Jack_Savage

    No. We just don’t have to listen to the same, tired, recycled liberal crap that we hear every day from people like you. Who haul ass to right-to-work states.

    The simple, indisputable fact is that liberalism doesn’t work. It never has and it never will. You can’t point to an example of liberal policies which cause growth. Barack Obama is a complete failure when it comes to creating jobs and growing the economy. Qualified workers are fleeing forced union states – JUST LIKE YOU DID.

    And yet, without a hint of introspection or realizing the hysterical irony, you try to come here and lecture us. Pack it, pal. And for the love of all that is precious, move to California and leave us the hell alone. PLEASE.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Hey, don’t tell him to come here, Jack. Spare us any more, please.

  • Jack_Savage

    Sorry. You are correct and CA is in dire straits as it is.
    How about this – you come to VA in an exchange? I will make sure you are set up in the beautiful Shenandoah Valley and you can help us turn it back red.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Hmmm…have to seriously consider that one. :) )

  • PowerToThePeople

    Why should we argue with a piece of Sh*t. Nothing can be gained as your argument will always be sh*t right alongside with your attitude. Best thing we can do with smelly substances like you is simply avoid it less we get you on our shoes.

  • PowerToThePeople

    That is some gorgeous land. Still, IMHO, our beaches still reigns superior.

  • PowerToThePeople

    He is just a scumbag that Bill banned and now he will see his older account that he is using now banned across the board.

  • westcoastpatriette

    I know. I’m waiting for Bill S. to come back and finish him off.

  • https://profiles.google.com/BobMunck/about Bob Munck

    Qualified workers are fleeing forced union states – JUST LIKE YOU DID.

    I did? I moved here because my company — MITRE — transferred me to the DC office to work on C3I systems.

    You can’t point to an example of liberal policies which cause growth.

    R&D support. For example, development of the technology of the Internet.

  • https://profiles.google.com/BobMunck/about Bob Munck

    Read the posting rules.

    I did. I didn’t violate them, but boy, you guys sure have. I guess they don’t apply to you.

  • westcoastpatriette

    You must have missed that this is a site to promote conservative principles not debate with liberals. We are not the least bit interested in what you think. Heard it all before and have concluded that you are unteachable hypocrites.

  • https://profiles.google.com/BobMunck/about Bob Munck

    this is a site to promote conservative principles

    Isn’t arguing about the validity of those principles a basic component of promoting them? If you don’t test your beliefs, you’re not really supporting them at all. The site doesn’t do anything to promote conservative principles if it serves as nothing but an echo chamber for the true believers.

    Your refusal to listen to anything that contradicts you is a pretty strong indication that you don’t actually have any faith in your beliefs.

  • Bill S

    Sorry, Mister Left-wing Retread. You don’t get to resurrect yourself. Go play with your fellow Kos Kidz. You aren’t welcome here.

    Therefore, all of your subsequent comments have been either deleted or edited to reflect the intellect you demonstrate.

  • Bill S

    Good call.

  • Jack_Savage

    Either this comment was edited, which was brilliant, or you are coming completely unglued, which is expected.

  • Jack_Savage

    I do have to hand it to you – your beaches are fantastic.

    And the USC cheerleaders have always been a subject of awe, although the SEC schools and Florida State may argue some with that.

  • Bill S

    I tried to edit his comments to reflect his true opinions.

  • checkmate2012

    I just came to the site and saw the blah, blah, etc comments from that poster and thought it was his comments – not your superb editing! Too funny.

  • Jack_Savage

    You did well. The editing also reflected the substance and effectiveness of his posts.