Liberals are totalitarians. They will never be satisfied with the level of control they have over us. Never. They will do as they have always done; increase control incrementally over long periods of time until we are literal subjects of the state.

I can honestly envision a future dystopia that is a combination of Orwell’s 1984 and Logan’s Run. The latter being the goal of the eco-fascist wing of the Democrat party.

The only way to avoid this future is by going our own separate ways from the Blue state Leftiss.

Agreed. The differences have become irreconcilable.

The poll in the WashPost shows that there’s very large support for a registry of firearms, which I presume would be one of the policy changes the administration would support. There has just been a long, recent, and very thorough debate in Canada about a long gun registry (so no handguns), resulting in the scrapping of the project.

Several reviews there (by provincial and federal authorities) came to the following conclusions about the registry:

1) It cost way more than expected. (Not all that surprising.)
2) Police generally found that it helped them in response situations (does someone at that domestic dispute have a gun?), but…
3) …the registry generally did not help prevent or solve much gun crime (a large proportion of officers didn’t think it was useful outside of the response situation).
4) Gun crime in Canada was (like the US) falling anyhow throughout the period of the registry, but that seemed to be due to other causes.

Now, this was only for long guns, so I can imagine an argument that handguns (due to concealability, etc…) might be different. That’s probably a weak argument but some other country might have informative data on handgun bans that I should see before forming a conclusion.

So, if a registry comes up we can look north to show that it might not be the best solution. Not arguing that gun crime isn’t a tragedy, just that a national gun registry was tried in a country similar to the US and it didn’t help too much.

As long as house GOP doesn’t bring the bill up, it will die. It’s our job to keep them from folding like a cheap suit to Obama and violating the Hastert rule.

I’m not sure we have that long.

From the WaPo article:
“….gun-control push is just one part of an ambitious political agenda that Obama has pledged to pursue after his decisive reelection victory in November, including comprehensive immigration reform, climate-change legislation and long-term deficit reduction.

In the minds of the leftist authoritarians 51% is a ‘decisive’ win (but only when it’s a Democrat, when a Republican wins with 51% that just means there’s a split electorate with no mandate).

you’re right that none of these proposals – or even, anything that the Dems could possibly propose short of outright gun seizure – could have prevented Newtown. But that’s where we need to stand on the line and point the difference between us and them out. **We understand that nothing can prevent future Newtowns** and they do not.

still, if that’s the most that Obama wants to do, “universal background checks for firearm buyers, track the movement and sale of weapons through a national database, strengthen mental health checks, and stiffen penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors” – then that isn’t really gun grabbing at all. Most of that stuff is pretty reasonable and tame. The exception is the national database, I think states should decide if they want to make their own databases or not. The background checks should also be state and not federal.

Exactly, be obstructionists in this case especially. Toss it in the fireplace like Reid if it ever makes it to the House.

We draw a line in the sand by not putting up any bill for a vote in the House as lawstudent said above. Any bill the loons come up with will chip away at our liberties and not solve a darn thing. Just say no to any compromise.

I’ve seen estimates that half of adult Americans own guns.
Try telling us that we are suddenly criminals for that ownership.
Send BATFE around to force us to register our guns as if they were full auto. Let’s see how well that works out.

Democrats, if you support this, you are INSANE!

We could just concentrate our efforts on taking back the institutions.

Then you can target, isolate, marginalize and silence them.

Why is that we think of the left in terms of ‘they will keep attacking our liberties, and never stop until they succeed’ and not in terms of ‘we will keep attacking them, and we will never stop until we succeed in marginalizing and silencing them’?

Thinking defensively is getting us killed.

I agree but unfortunately, in my humble opinion, conservatives are generally reactive rather than reactive. That is, we prefer to be left alone and to leave others alone and only react when our liberties are encroached upon. We aren’t constantly in search of a wrong to right, a cause, nor are we in the habit of trying to force everyone else to live in ways we prefer. That is the province of the Left.

I believe Jefferson had conservative types in mind when in the Declaration he wrote:

and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

How will enough conservatives rally to take back institutions before they are lost forever? Even if successful it won’t stop the Borg-like Left in their efforts to become part of their collective.

I’d prefer they go their way and we go ours. Just as the Founders did.

I think Obamacare is a Logan’s Run plan with $716B taken away from Medicare. I like your support of federalism but don’t see how it can be accomplished, lest we red states just quit sending money (which I’ve advocated since they can’t jail all the people in TX for instance). Ideas on how to get back to federalism besides talking about it my friend?

Stopping gun control is crucial. Any house republican who votes for it, signs a discharge petition, or advocates bringing a bill to to the house floor should be seen as betraying our values, and face a resolute primary challenge. We should also push for them to be kicked out of the caucus. We will not win our majority by selling our our values. We need to obstruct Obama as much as possible, and let the catastrophic failure of his economic policies catch up with him, and sink his disastrous presidency.

I spent time Saturday writing about gun control on Twitter and how it violated the Constitution. When I came home from dinner out, my Twitter account had been suspended with a very generic reason: violated the rules. I read the rules and can’t find out what it was that I did. If it was something, it was inadvertent. But the point is, the day before I had been hacked so I think that might have been something to do with it. I guess I will find out when they respond to my appeal.

Why do I mention this? Well, whether it had anything to do with my views or not, the Left wants to silence us and do it anyway they can. They don’t care about the constitution and the fact that it contains your God-given, not Obama-given rights. Be vigilant and be strong, my friends, and make sure that you tell your “elected leaders” what you want. If you don’t, they will just assume that you don’t care and use it as an excuse to “feel good” by enacting a travesty which doesn’t solve anything. And, trust me, we unfortunately have way to many Rs who will go along. Do you really think Boehner has the fortitude to stand up and fight? He’ll cave just like he always does without our speaking our minds. And once your freedom is taken, you won’t be getting it back.

If any of you have enjoyed any of my tweets, I would appreciate your support. Lonely Conservative has already tweeted my plight; they are true patriots. Until I get this issue hopefully corrected anyone can reach me at my website: www.northfloridawriter.com.

May God’s strength console you and give you courage in this dangerous time. If you stand for something now, you never will.

It does take a fair bit of idiocy or madness to give a gun to a minor. Only Biden could have seen it from those people’s perspectives.

The background checks are useless, but nice to deflect attention from more serious things like the database.

Dear me, yes, there’s a need to reform mental health checks if people like Biden can get access to them.

This is a growing opinion, that we must retake the institutions and reassert ourselves within the culture. But that is a long game. Just as it took the Progs over 100 years to get this far, it’ll take us a long time too. That can be accelerated by calamity, like economic collapse, natural disaster, even war, etc. Even then, there’s no certainty that the totalitarians don’t solidify their power in such a circumstance. But barring those type events, it’ll be a long slog.

Liberals continue on their quest for utopia, proving once again that progressivism is a mental disorder. After all, the last AWB didn’t work but they want to do it again expecting a different result. Isn’t that the definition of insanity?

Fortunately, there are likely enough red and purple states that will stop a major change but squishy Republicans may fold and go for a national registry, just to show their sympathy with the Newtown victims. And registration is the first step toward confiscation. Troubling times are ahead.

“They’re a weak reed that will break in your hand. Simple as that.”
This description also applies to far too many in the GOP — we need to be extremely vigilant or we will be betrayed by our own!
I suggest a push to pass state/local legislation expressing refusal to comply with (and, if politically possible, promise to resist) any federal effort to register, seize or otherwise restrict currently legal weapons, ammunition and accessories. It’s working with marijuana and should be used with firearms. At least part of the liberal community will be put in the uncomfortable position of either supporting federalism or changing their minds on drugs.
As indicated in earlier posts, we must be active — not merely reactive!

The politicians are just being politicians. Obama’s going to give the Dems a way to go on record so that the next time a mass shooting occurs in a gun-free zone, the Dems can say, we tried.

The NRA’s approach of hardening the soft targets is the best, new, single way to thwart the mass shooters, IMO.

FOOTNOTE: The Obama plan, if correctly reported, is pretty mild compared to lots of bans in the works at state and local level. IMO opinion, the Obama plan should be opposed not because it’s onerous but because it will be, as Moe argues, ineffective to stop Newtown-type massacres.

No we don’t. The House must reject any such attempt quickly and decisively. If they cave on this, it will open the floodgates.

Very true!

The “…victims of gun violence (some 30,000 annually).” is an unusual statistic. Unusual because it likely includes more than just homicide, but leaves an inference that there were that many homicides by firearm. For starters in 2010 (last year for data I found) 38,364 people died from suicide. 50% of those people died through the use of a firearm (19,182, give or take). Unless you are an anti-gun activist, those people did not die from “gun violence”, they killed themselves.

According to the FBI’s annual crime statistics report for 2011: “Information collected regarding type of weapon showed that firearms were used in 67.7 percent of the nation’s murders…”. That report shows the “Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter” total for the US in 2011 was 14,612. With firearms used in 67.7% of those, the number of people who were criminally killed with a firearm was 9892 nationwide.

OTOH, if we assume the activists who put forth the 30,000 number really were including in the count other crimes often committed using firearms, then we find that firearms are used in Robbery 41.3% of the time, with a reported total of 369,089 Robbery victims for a total # of Robbery with Firearm victims in 2011 of 152,434. Oh, wait – that won’t work as there are far more than 30,000 people there. OK, how about Aggravated Assault? 781,844 total Aggravated Assault victims and 21.2% of those instances involved a firearm, for a total of 165,751 Aggravated Assault with a firearm involved victims. Oh dear, that won’t work either.

I guess they really wanted you to believe that 30,000 people in the US were firearm homicide victims. The FBI acknowledges that the crime statistics are low due to people not reporting robberies, assaults, etc. But that isn’t true for Homicide and Non-Negligent Manslaughter. And we know what that number is.

Figures lie, and liars figure. But anyone can find the actual data with very little effort in the Internet Age.

I will bet you at least half of this agenda is implemented by/through Executive Order. He will do just like he did when the courts outlawed his/Salazar’s ban on deep-water drilling. He’ll just put it in place again and continue to enforce it while it proceeds through the courts AGAIN.

Without rancor, it isn’t the elected pols, of either party, who put Dear Leader in power. The “low information voters” did that.

Obviously. The problem is that an “A-” or “B+” is not appropriate either. A politician who supports any type of gun restriction should be an automatic “C”, and for a major bill an automatic “F.” Also, for politicans like Mark Pryor, who only support gun rights after making sure that his vote won’t actually pass the bill (like national concealed carry), his rating should suffer for that as well.

We have to fight this battle differently. The weak point in the Democrats’ quest to disarm the people is that they seek to impose laws on us (against our will) while exempting themselves from those very same laws. They cannot defend this — they only get away with it because we never call them out on it, that needs to stop.

Any new law banning any kind of firearms must also apply to every politician, every media hack, every Hollywood celebrity and anyone who protects them. Period. No exceptions. They won’t agree with this. Get them to explain it. They believe their lives are more valuable than ours. This is why they scoff at the NRA suggesting armed guards at schools while at the same time sending their children to schools with armed guards. They believe their lives are more valuable than ours. Get them on record saying it, or at least expose them by backing them into a corner from which they can’t rhetorically defend themselves.

If they want to limit our right to defend ourselves and our families, then they must also live under those limits.

But they have no intention of living under the laws they impose on us.

So the next Democrat hack on TV asserting that nobody needs those scary ‘assault weapons’ for self defense needs to be asked immediately if that means the bodyguards who protect the politicians will stop carrying submachine guns. And if not, why? The only way they can defend what they are trying to do is to concede they think their lives are more valuable than ours.

Same with Obamacare. If it’s such a great law that it must be imposed on all of us against our will…..why are politicians, public sector unions and employees of health insurance companies (the groups that pushed the hardest for that law) exempt?

They don’t believe in ‘equality’, it’s just a big lie they use to get power. Their stated agenda is not their true agenda. They need to be called out on this every single day. Don’t fight them on their terms, expose them for who they are.

Mercatus.org has an exhaustive and very enlightening “freedom index” for the 50 states. Do you know of anyone that ranks individuals by their support of federalism? A “friend of federalism” score might be useful in this effort.

I believe Obama is miscalculating on the gun issue. He’s misreading his November win and remains on a delsusional post-election high. There’s a reason he didn’t touch the isssue until after the second election. If the majority really was on his side he would have. He’s making the same mistake Bush did in 2004 when he tried to go forth with Social Security privatization after the election. Two year later the Republicans lost Congress. I’ve been in and out of my local gun shop over the last 15 years. It’s been busier than ever and it’s not just the same people in there every time. Firearms continue to grow in poplulartiy, more popular than ever. There are the polls that showed a boost in support for gun control following Newtown. Rassmussen showed a bare 51% supporting general non-specific “tighter gun restrictions” but nothing specific has been polled. They also showed Romney winning the popular vote, so I remain weary on the accuracy of any poll. Gore lost in 2000 when he ran pro-gun control. Obama very well may have this backfire in his face. RINOs are treading carefully with all of the recent primaries. Dem senators from Montana, South Dakota, Iowa, Arkansas, Louisiana, North Carolina, Virginia, New Hampshire, Alaska, West Virginia, Colorado, Minnesota are up in 2014. That doesn’t count the moderate Dems who were slimly reelected in 2012. There are only about a dozen or so uber lift wingers in the Senate that hail from solid blue states. Even if Harry manages to get rid of the filibuster, it would be a long shot to pass in the Senate. Anything passable would have to be extremely watered down. Then it would still have to pass the House where it would likely be amended if even voted on at all. If they did pass a bill in the House it would NOT be the same bill and it would have to go to the conference committtee and pass the Senate and House again. Then there would be the immediate legal challenges against the legislation. It would need funding to be enforced, etc. So Obama is completely delusdonal here. Just as it always has on anyone who has tried it, it will backfire on him, especially when the economy and deficit remain number 1. We have yet to see what effects tax hikes in the Fiscal deal and Obamacare will have on the economy. If it does what we think it will do then, all bets are completely off for Obama on gun control. He already made his all in bet with Obamacare. But, he can try though haha…he can try…

I agree with you in thinking the US House will stand firm – but there is genuine danger at the state level. For example – in Colorado the Democrats just took the House and already controlled the Senate and Governor Hickenlooper just flip flopped to saying he’s open to more gun control. (The new Legislature will be greeted with a pro-gun rights rally on opening day)

I’m not sure off hand which other states are likely to pursue further gun control – but suspect there are many others- and that there may be danger of passage.

It just shows the propaganda is that widespread — that you, wanting to argue in favor of gun rights and just quickly grabbing a statistic are more likely to find one that grossly exaggerates the incidence of gun related murders (btw, I also wouldn’t define an accident as “gun violence”)

To put it bluntly, the extreme left is fighting a “cold war” with conservatives. They use a bizarre (but effective) strategy of disinformation, multiple targets floating in the
“political air” at a time making it very difficult to combat. Add to that a “command and control” of the conservatives that is inneffective at best, and you have th emakings of a “New America”. For example, the Newtown shootings happened just days after Chicago suffered its worst 2nd ammendment defeat to date. This ruling appeared to be poised to fast track the Supreme court to abolish all “Crook county” (sorry Cook County) gun laws. Now with new town, say hello to the musket! To give you some perspective, Chicago had 500 gun crimes in 2012, Illinois had around 1000 traffic related deaths. So, liberal logic, = ban cars next. In Illinois statistics, there is never a breakout of Chicago ANYTHING vs the rest of the state, but the most “EVERYTHING” happens there. Applying the logic of the left, and as ridiculous as it sounds, Chicago itself should be banned and confiscated because it (like Communism and Socalism) is far, far more dangerous than any gun. Bottom line CHICAGO is running the country right now, know Chicago and see the future.

I don’t trust the House, because I don’t trust Boner. But, I trust the Lefties in the Senate even less. It is they who will hide gun control in a bill, or a conference report, or whatever, and then send it to the House too late for anyone to read it before an emergency vote of some kind. So, we must stop such nonsense in the Senate by making noises whenever the Left tries to hide something, and we cannot any longer just trust their word. They lie and they are proud of it. And, just so we all understand, they lie about their lying. So, we must be ever vigilant and insist our senators and representatives are also ever vigilant. We have to be willing to go over whatever cliff the Left has pushed us to rather than pass any bill without reading it ever again!!!

Do we really care what whoever’s “rating” was if such legislation passes???? Get real!!!

I don’t think we need to shift focus from federal to state as much as we need a dual focus of both federal and state equally. That way, the federal legislators won’t squawk as much about what the states do or don’t do. For federalism to really work well we need strong state leaders and legislators and compliant federal leaders and legislators.

Don’t put your money on Lefties not being hypocritical in one area over another. There is no consistency on the left except that they consistently grab power wherever they can. Liberalism is NOT a system of logic. It is a system of emotionalism whose end goal is to own and control all power.

That is why we have to stop electing squishes who will listen to the Left’s emotional arguments instead of standing the principles of the Constitution.

And, the best way to stop electing squishes is to win primaries against them.

Gun control is not first on Sn McConnell’s agenda or so he signaled.
Mitch McConnell , Minority leader Senate, said Sunday on TV that gun control was going to take a back seat for months at least. The Congress had pressing problems with debt, spending and budgets that were more important.

Enforcement of criminal statues is NOT ineffective against criminals. When Texas began to enforce, and increase, criminal penalties, the crime statistics took a nose dive. Those penalties deterred some and removed others from society so they could not do their dirty deeds any longer. Also, easing concealed carry laws helped, because one of the greatest deterrents for criminal activity is the possibility (probability now in Texas) of getting shot while doing it!

The problem is that too many self proclaimed conservatives balk at paying for more prisons. In that way they are just as weak and greedy as any other who claims “entitlement”. They want safety without paying for it themselves through higher taxes. Either pay up now or pay up later. Either pay to house criminals away from the society they seek to victimize or pay higher insurance premiums, hospitalization costs, and such later when the criminals find you to victimize next. You cannot have it both ways any more than the hypocritical Lefties can!

Just a thought. I believe Dear Leader, and his minions, are devious (and every other derogatory description you can think of). Are they floating a “worst case scenario” so the low information voter gun owners will sit back and say “That isn’t so bad.” when the actual bill comes forth?

I know Fineswine means to get as much as she can, and then will come back for more. But is the White House playing bait and switch to get a “good first step” bill through?

I read a summary of Wisconisn’s agenda for a divided combative state led by a Republican governor and legislature..

Gv Scott Walker said this session he won’t propose anything that brings 80,000 people to the state of Wisonsin to protest. LOL I read that and thought he had swung center. Maybe. He has proposed to grow education spending by 300 mil The state remains fifth highest in taxes and welfare is like Michigan’s in luxury. He has a way to go to downsize spending. He balanced tte books in two years and refuses to borrow and pass on debt. Unemployent is down but not enough.
Also Wisconsin Republicans picked up a state senate seat AFTER the recalls and may pick up one more in a special election. The assembly is the same as 2011. So much for baseless recalls. The stronger all Republican state government have an agenda. The legislatures has one of its own as priorities that are concerned with the high taxes, mining bill stalled, education.
The Senate and Assembly want to take up tax reform and lower the very high income tax, keep property tax caps. They will wait on courts to pass a voter ID law again. They have plans to wtihhold aid to technical colleges that do not teach skills. They have become mini four year colleges Even Democrats approve of that technical college oversight to get back to progrms that teach technical skills in areas there is a demand. Wisconisn need to train plumbers and other trades that get the students jobs.
The governor wants to reinstated state tests for hs graduation like the old days. A report card is not enough. Back to the 1950s on essay and math skills msybe!
Walker also is accused by liberals in a blog of wanting to arm teachers in schools but not trust them to do collective bargaining. Walker opposes gun background checks and liberals want a bullet tax.
He declined to set up state exchanges for ACA as he says the federal top down ACA does all the guidelines and he can not afford the high costs ACA adds. Walker opposes his own legislature on abolsihing same day vote registration if the current figures he has are correct. To abolish would cost over five million dollars.
Walker also opposes altering the partisan in your face mockery of election oversight Government accountabilty Board or GAB. I am confused why Walker is not moving on GAB if Fitzgerald in Senate wants to act.
Scott Walker was on TV with Bobby Jindal who backs amnesty in DREAM form, Walker did not last month back amnesty in even the DREAM form. In fact he has crticized illegals being on Badger care.

So, why is the NRA stupid enough to endorse *any* democrat?

That is a major consideration for why I have yet to give NRA any money.

There you go again – bringing logic into the debate.

Don’t you know we “have to do something”? NOW!!! No debate! It’s obvious to EVERYBODY! Hurry, hurry, hurry. No time to lose. IT’S FOR THE CHILDREN!

Sorry folks, y’all know I don’t believe in that stuff – but they do. Well, except for the part about it being “for the children”, they use that – but only the low information voters might buy it.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all; it is rather too late, once a gun ban is passed, isn’t it?

I have grown very tired of our side speaking their language and accepting all of their false premises.

That was obviously a mistake on my part.

The Grandson who lives next door completed his Hunter Safety course, passing the examination, at 9. He has had a hunting license since then. He has his own rifle (it is stored with the other rifles and only used with an adult accompanying him to the range or field).

You are correct that most Democrats (particularly Dear Leader’s Administration) would like the low information voter to believe that most children with access to firearms are running amok. That is why so many opposed the NRA Eddy Eagle program of teaching young children, in school, the idea that when they see an unattended gun they “Stop. Don’t touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult.” Obviously that is an indoctrination by the NRA. It was, sort of, but one intended to protect the children.

Even then they could run a weld over the number ,the criminal will find a way.

The reason for this push is to get us so upset that we start shooting however has to enforce these laws. Then martial law can be imposed.

I read something this AM about drugs and guns. I was able to source this…however, I could not find the exact article that I read, wherein the names of the particular drugs were named. People kill people…not inanimate objects.
When I went to school…I didn’t know anyone on anti-depressants…mood altering drugs…even Riddlin (sp) had not made it. Then…we had to start treating everything under the sun because Jimmy or Jane were “unhappy”. **** happens and when it does…people aren’t always happy. But…now, as this article says…everyone has a trophy, there are no winners or loser. Attention Deficient Disorder…give a 12 year a copy of Playboy…and you couldn’t pull the book away from them. We have dumbed down our education system with drugs (see DVD Agenda)…big Pharma makes out and our political hacks make hay of the situation they created by taking one more of our “rights” away. Here is the article:

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-blue-collar/2012/dec/16/gun-control-vs-drug-control-real-cause-newtown-mas/

oBUMo thinks guns are so bad that he is going to give up secret service protection for him and his family and will have the school were his kids go get rid of all guards. Yea right.

NRA protects the Second and as many lawmakers as possible who support that agenda further the NRA’s. NRA has less if any immediate concern on how a lawmaker votes on fracking or taxes.NRA is about guns and arms and those rights to bear them as a Right.
A Right is widespread participation with government protection. We have government persecution now.

I do not oppose background checks at gun shows being added or even a database for
high powered assault-type weapons. But a database for every gun owner creeps me out and is unconstitutional. Even so, as Moe pointed out none of these things would have prevented the tragedy in Newton and does not solve anything. What is a stupid fine going to do after the fact? It is nothing but a power grab and this will not go over well with the American public.

And strengthening mental background checks? How about, oh I don’t know, fix our broken mental health care system instead? There is something tha might actually work. And where is the outrage at the Hollywood violence and video game violence? Where is the mention of their contribution to the violence? Oh, I forgot they donate to the Left. Guess they cannot bite the hand that feeds them, even if it might actually solve an issue.

yeah, I think I’m going to just ignore you from here on out, pal. I’m not sure which state you reside in either, but if you’ve ever fired a gun, then I’ll pay the dollar and the donut.

The issue isn’t a given Democrat politician’s stance on fracking or taxes; rather, the issue is that any given Democrat in federal office views second-amendment positions as fungible: pro-second-amendment when necessary to get elected, and anti-second-amendment when asked by Democrat leadership to support gun control.

The sincerely pro-second-amendment Congressional democrat is as mythical as the sincerely pro-life Congressional democrat.

Long-term, the NRA *hurts* its cause by not recognizing and accepting this maxim.

No, I don’t really think about the Second Amendment when I’m out plinking or during hunting season, any more than I think about the First Amendment when I’m playing Far Cry.

But I do recognize when someone is out to attack those rights. and when LaPierre said that “guns don’t kill people, video games kill people” then let me tell you my craw is pretty big but that still got stuck there.