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A Rejoinder to Senator Rubio on Illegal Immigration

Senator Marco Rubio was gracious enough to engage our conservative community with his thoughtful comments on his framework for immigration reform.  I’d like to respond to some of the points made in his post.

  • “and we have by some estimates as many as 11 million human beings living in the United States without the proper immigration documents in a state of de facto amnesty.”

The first step in proposing a solution is being honest about the problem.  If someone feels that granting amnesty, or even more – full blown citizenship – to illegal immigrants is a prudent idea, then admit that is what you’re doing and be forthright about it.  By consistently using the parlance of the left – “undocumented “ -  as if it were some natural disaster, is disingenuous.

In the very first line describing the Gang of 8’s “four legislative pillars” it says their plan would “create a tough but fair path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants currently living in the United States…”  That means amnesty. Those words—“path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants” mean amnesty.  Again, you might feel it’s a prudent idea, but it is amnesty nonetheless.

  • “On the political front, a growing number of voters of Asian and Hispanic descent have been convinced by the left that conservative opposition to immigration reform equates to being anti-immigrant. This is unfair, and it is untrue. But they have pulled it off and, as a result, our ability to convince these fast-growing communities that the principles of limited government and free enterprise are better for them than big government and collectivism has been impaired.”

I’d like to talk about sound policy, but if we are going to do this for political reasons, does Senator Rubio have any evidence to show that the new amnestied immigrants will not vote at least 80/20 Democrat?  Is there any evidence that we will enjoy a net gain with the current Latino voting population?  Remember, Democrats have signed onto this plan precisely because they believe it will create a permanent Democrat majority.  Yes, we need to articulate our message for limited government to all people.  But let’s not fool ourselves, it’s an uphill battle fighting through the allure of the dependency state.  Let’s deal with those we already have, instead of granting voting rights to millions more low-skilled immigrants, who are strongly predispositioned  to vote Democrat, irrespective of how enthusiastically we embrace a path to citizenship.

  • “The economic ramifications, however, are even more serious. For example, our technology sector creates roughly 120,000 computer engineering jobs a year, but our universities only graduate about 40,000 students a year in that field. The long term answer, of course, is to get more American students to graduate in this field. But the immediate problem is that, in the absence of an immigration system where these workers can be brought here, these jobs are sent overseas to them.”

If this is truly a bipartisan concern, why don’t we fix that now?  Why do the legal immigration reforms have to be held hostage for a “comprehensive” amnesty bill?  Let’s first pass the things we all agree upon.

  • “Another example is in agriculture, where a stable and affordable domestic supply of food is critical to our national security and our quality of life. Agriculture has always required a significant work force from abroad, but we do not have a system through which growers and dairies can bring a workforce legally into the U.S.”

It is true that many conservatives from heavily agriculture districts have expressed concerns that there are not enough visas granted for temporary migrant workers.  But we could solve that with a temporary worker visa program (after we implement a visa tracking system).  Instead, the framework which you signed onto would not only grant them a path to citizenship, but a fast track path along with the “Dreamers.”  That is a gratuitous and superfluous addition to the requests of those working in agriculture.

  • “The principles I have proposed to deal with this issue are not perfect, but I believe they create a framework for dealing with this reality in a responsible and reasonable way. And I think conservatives have already won important concessions from Democrats that we can build on to shape the actual legislation.”

The Senator goes on to explain how we now have Democrats conceding to enforcement with triggers.  This is a concession?  Democrats said the same thing with the McCain-Kennedy bill, which was strongly opposed by then-candidate Rubio.  They will never publically say that they oppose enforcement.  All we need to do is watch their actions.  Moreover, Schumer said emphatically that there are no preconditions for an immediate legal status.  That will take place right away.  Once they are all legal, there will be no way to stop the train.  Finally, as we’ve stated before, enforcement is not a legislative problem.  All of these laws are already on the books.  It is an executive and judicial problem.  We need to see the enforcement measures actually implemented and working, along with the blessing of the courts, before we proceed to any legalization.

Had the Democrats signed onto a document charting new territory, such as a commitment to end anchor babies and allow states to enforce the laws, then there would have been a meaningful concession.  Instead, it is only our side making dramatic concessions.

  • “We even got President Obama to concede that undocumented immigrants who avail themselves of this program will not be eligible for federal benefits, including Obamacare, during their lengthy non-immigrant status.”

Again, wait until the courts get ahold of this.  Also, how long is the “lengthy non-immigrant status?”  This does nothing to deal with the long-term welfare problem that will ensue from granting them green cards and citizenship.  Furthermore, how will you avoid the bidding war?  Even if Obama doesn’t move the bill to the left, Democrats will accept this only as the first step.  Once they are granted the legal status, it will be even easier for them to become a political football by making welfare and a quicker path to citizenship the next civil rights issues.

Overall, the Senator is correct in asserting that we must preemptively lay out our conservative principles on this critical issue.  However, that would require conservatives to first work amongst ourselves crafting a statement of principles as to what is acceptable on the issues of preconditions, welfare, and legal immigration.  Working together with far-left Democrats on a plan, which Senator McCain passionately believes is the original Kennedy plan, does not present the American people with a bold contrast – putting aside the Washingtonian nuances and gimmicks.  And as is the case with every other issue, we are suffering from a lack of articulation of bold contrasts.

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COMMENTS

  • PowerToThePeople

    Another Bullseye Daniel, well written and spot on.

  • Jim_Riggs

    “By consistently using the parlance of the left – “undocumented “ – as if it were some natural disaster, is disingenuous.”

    He didn’t actually call the “undocumented”. He referred to them as human beings.

  • westcoastpatriette

    I understand what you are saying in that what is being proposed is not a free pass. But in terms of preventing them from facing the consequences under current law — which would be deportation and no promise of a path to anything else, it is an amnesty. At least that is my thinking on the subject and why I concur with those who refer to these new plans as an amnesty. They would be allowed to bypass the consequences that would be incurred under current law which is a form of amnesty in my mind.

  • cheesycon

    ” And as is the case with every other issue, we are suffering from a lack of articulation of bold contrasts.”

    this is basically the problem of the entire conservative movement since.. I don’t even know when.

    but only at the federal level, though, because at the state level it’s leaders like Governor Walker who have in fact been articulate and made bold contrasts with the Democrats.

    So the refusal of the national GOP to follow that example just baffles me.

  • Viet71

    You have made important points, Bill S.

    Screaming “amnesty” when it’s anything other than wholesale imprisonment or deportation makes conservatives look dull.

    Flouting the law is objectionable. Playing politics sucks. Being a realist is good for one’s well being.

  • grumpyKoz

    Easy way to solve the problem.
    Every time a state nabs an illegal immigrant, although they cannot deport them from the country, they CAN deport them from the state.
    Give them ALL a one way ticket to Washington D.C.
    The the law makers deal with the problem.
    AND, perhaps we can even use Federal Money to perform the transfer.

  • thx1138v2

    How about background checks? How about mental health? Oh, right, that’s only for current legal citizens to purchase guns – but that is exactly what the immigration process is about. Illegal immigration bypasses that whole process and commits a crime at the same time. Amnesty? We have a system in place. Use it. Illegal is illegal. There are no shades of gray, no shadows, in that.

  • freemkts

    Yeah right. Mexico is as dangerous as Syria or Afghanistan these days. Who would want to return to that hellhole and get killed by drug cartels? People come here because picking fruit, washing dishes or whatever other scummy jobs await them are better than what they could be doing in Mexico. Self deportation is just dumb.

  • becky5

    Did you even read Rubio’s piece? He consistently refers to those here illegally as ‘undocumented’. Mr. Horowitz is right, using this language implies that the only thing wrong with this situation is that people lack proper documentation — as if this occurred by accident. It is disingenuous, whatever one’s opinion might be on a solution.

    From Rubio:

    “…we have by some estimates as many as 11 million human beings living in the United States without the proper immigration documents…”

    “… we have to deal with those who are here now without documents.”

    “..Most of these are people who will be here for the rest of their lives with or without documents..”

  • commonsenseobserver

    Second class is fine by me, felons are second class too.

    The illegal immigrants (illegals just sounds strange if you’re trying to convince us that they will vote for the GOP) would naturally vote for the party of open borders. After all, there are others who will. Be in the same position they once were.

    Amnesty means a generation of ignorance as long as we do not get the safeguards we need, and that Sen. Lightweight and Sen. Mac do not provide.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Self-deportation is now anathema.

  • Jim_Riggs

    “Lots of criminals are humans too.” :)

  • http://conservativemountaineer.blogspot.com/ conservativemountaineer

    Very good points. One question – What happens if they do not come forward? Do we just continue to ignore (as we are doing right now)? Deportation, then? [I have no clue, btw.]

  • becky5

    I have no preferred term, it’s just that calling people “undocumented” is leftist spin to make people believe the only thing wrong here is a lack of documentation, when the problem is far greater and carries much broader implications for the country.

  • http://conservativemountaineer.blogspot.com/ conservativemountaineer

    Citizen = Democrat Voter

    Work Permit ≠ Democrat Voter

  • becky5

    Even the left concedes the GOP will not win votes by supporting immigration reform.

  • Jim_Riggs

    It must be true if some dorky looking British guy said it.

  • freemkts

    Hispanics don’t have to vote majority for Republicans, but we can’t do worse than 35% of their vote. Anything less we lose. Bush got >40% and won. He carried western states like NM, CO and NV that we haven’t won since. Hispanics will support the right Republicans. They stood with Gov Martinez in NM and Gov Sandoval in NV. What they won’t do is vote for Republicans who view them as illegitimate criminals and tell them to go home.

    Whether you like it or not the country is changing. This isn’t 1980 where Reagan won with white voters accounting for more tha 80% electorate. Either we reach out and attract hispanic voters or we die.

  • becky5

    He cited several polls and studies, but I guess anything anyone says that contradicts your point of view is invalid.

  • checkmate2012

    becky5 is right! There is no proof that Hispanics will vote for Rs unless we change our platform to one of big gov’t programs. Levin just went through 32 years of presidential voting patterns and not once did we get the majority of Hispanic voters…not once, even Reagan! It’s a false premise to think that amnesty will change their minds or voting.

  • checkmate2012

    I agree with your last sentence, not your 1st two sentences. The Mexican government actively engages in trying to shape our immigration policy as well as the U.S. gov’t doing propoganda as to all the entitlements they’ll get if they come here. We can’t change that with the current admin, but Rubio and the other Rs., should insist this cease.
    .
    We give alot of money to Mexico and unless they assist on stemming the flow, we should cut off the funding. This is a big issue and should be addressed. The Mex. gov’t is a hypocrite as they bounce an illegal immediately! Something I’d like to see.

  • http://twostepstotheright.blogspot.com/ D.T. Dickinson

    Statements such as “If we don’t do this, we’ll get the blame/lose the vote/look bad/be unpopular” should not be a basis for creating and/or altering law. By not following a country’s given procedures to enter or stay within its borders, an individual places themselves in a “second-class” status of their own choice.

    Politely give them the option to voluntarily leave and and attempt entry within the rule of law. If they choose to remain, make it understood (both in law and specifically to each individual) that they will be ineligible to receive any benefit, service, or perk of citizenship as long as they remain; any criminal activity by those who remain will be prosecuted, be subject to active deportation, or both; and penalize those who seek to employ these individuals as a “black-market labor force” (as I read in some other comment). Reward those who follow the law, and withhold reward for those who don’t.

    No need to actively deport. No need to incarcerate those who choose to remain. No need for special paths to citizenship. If changes are needed to immigration policy and law, then seek those changes–but as a separate issue.

    It’s not demeaning, inhumane, or cruel to just remind these individuals of the decisions they made.

  • checkmate2012

    Brilliant and funny!

  • checkmate2012

    Bill, while I agree that Rubio’s heart is in the right place, there are major problems:

    1. What is the timeframe to come forward and what is the enforcement mechanism if they choose not to and are caught later? – “those who have violated our immigration laws must come forward and undergo a background check.
    2. Deported when and why would they come forward? – “If they have committed a serious crime, they will be deported.”
    3. If they don’t come forward, how can we deport them? Who will enforce that deportation if they chose Option A. Certainly not this admin. – “They can avail themselves of the current law which requires them to return to their native country, wait ten years and then apply for a green card.”

    I think we need more serious discussion on the reality of the illegals coming forward and the reprecussions if they don’t and are found later, say after a set timeframe. If this passes, I’m for making the time limit to declare, a small window of opportunity.

  • checkmate2012

    Polls show that immigration is #6 on their list of priorities. A big and kind gov’t and a Party that “cares about them” are at the top. History proves that we won’t ever get a majority of their vote, unless we sway them on limited gov’t principles.

  • checkmate2012

    Finally. The goal of immigration policy should be to suit our soverign nation and further its status as the land of the free by Rule of Law. As I’ve said, if the goal of this bill is defined and is equal to solving the problem of 11M in the “dark”, then it’s already headed in the wrong direction. To heck with the 5% illegals, what about us citizens? I would have liked your input on my post as I enjoy your insightful comments.

  • Ann_W

    Another point about this is that the day after granting amnesty to the current group of ‘undocumented’ workers– there becomes a new group agitating for citizenship, and we’re just as heartless and cruel for not continuously giving it to everyone who wants to be a citizen.

  • hydropsychesparna

    No one has mentioned that once the illegals are legal they will demand better wages. So, prices will have to increase or we will need more illegals because we all know there are jobs that Americans just will not do. Ha Ha.

  • hydropsychesparna

    Rubio claimed on the Limbaugh show that he could sell the republican ideal to anyone. What a fool.

  • ss396

    The border security of the Soviet Union, East Germany, and the bloc countries was against both-way crossing, but was principally oriented toward keeping its citizens in. “Forcing us into paradise at the point of a bayonet” was the sardonic joke of the time. US border security is not directed at keeping people inside the US. The Communist countries were huge prisons; the US puts very few limitations on people wanting to depart. You don’t need a passport to leave the US; you only need it to be able to arrive somewhere.

    When we talk about border security, we are talking about controlling ingress, not egress. That’s a huge difference.

  • ss396

    We don’t even have the resources and facilities to deal with the illegals that we find now. They get pulled in, but then let go because there is no where to put them. They are released on their own recognizance, with no penalty for failing to show up for their purported court date.

    Any thoughts, Sen. Rubio, for suddenly handling 5-million new applicants (assuming only half of them show up to partake)?

  • ss396

    Why does border security have to be a part of immigration reform? Why can’t it be treated separately? There are other border threats besides illegal immigration. Achieve a reasonable border security now. We’ll worry about its impact for or against illegals later.

  • exdoormat

    Perhaps we could look to Mexico for help with this. What is their word for ‘amnesty’, or their phrase for ‘without the proper immigration documents’.

    Perhaps we should do what the Mexican gov does with those lacking documents?

  • Jim_Riggs

    lol…. Perhaps I am. At least that’s a more honest charge than calling people we disagree with “low information”. ;)

  • Marcus_Traianus

    There certainly seems to be plenty of hand-wringing and
    recriminations against Senator Rubio for even starting the conversation on
    immigration reform. I’ll have to admit I don’t quite understand the nature or
    basis for emotionally led statements from folks who often characterize
    themselves as reasonable, intellectual and factual. Ditto the writing off of
    Senator Rubio for higher office or premature proclamations of objection before
    the conversation is even started.

    What the Senator has said, to the best of my understanding,
    is that securing the border first and ensuring illegal immigrants do not
    receive federal benefits is a good starting point. Not to mention that any
    eventual Green Card process would need to be buttressed by such an applicant
    being self-sustaining and therefore not a welfare candidate. To me, that seems
    a reasonable starting point.

    I further believe that business and in particular the
    Chamber of Commerce have benefited for too long on the backs of American
    Taxpayers. They provide the jobs which are the basis of this problem. If there
    is no employment, the immigration problem is mostly mitigated. To wit, look how
    the economy affects the ebb and flow of illegal migration. Meanwhile we all
    receive the tangential impact and costs to our communities, hospitals, criminal
    justice system and safety. That’s a disgusting and disreputable way to behave
    and deserves our scorn much more than Senator Rubio.

    I certainly understand the apprehension. Based on past
    negotiations and the personalities involved this has the potential to be a
    tremendous train-wreck. But that does not mean we should not at least have the
    conversation. This is a problem that is
    not going away and Democrats are enjoying the despicable fruits by means of
    both perception and politics. To me, that makes the status quo untenable.

    One of the functional and perceptive liabilities of
    Republicans is they have forgotten how to effectively negotiate and explain
    their positions to voters. This idea that we should not discuss, and therefore
    not negotiate is an unprecedented failure of leadership.

    This has become a party of balkanized, compartmentalized
    individuals who insist on being heard at the expense of all others. That is a
    failure owned by people who purport to be influential party principals. Frankly,
    l wouldn’t trade Senator Rubio for the entire lot of them.

  • commonsenseobserver

    The theory is that once we get most of them to register, the rest will be easier to control.

    Of course, there’s the problem you mentioned, and there’s also the case of the current situation getting replicated if the targets aren’t met and everyone being left in limbo. Certainly, the liberals would start making a fuss about “red tape” and we’ll have full-blown amnesty. There must be strict and firm safeguards and limits.

    And we would indeed do well to address drug and human trafficking too.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Apparently it’s worth it as long as that allows us to get 30% of the overall.

  • Jim_Riggs

    You mean like the polls being skewed?

  • commonsenseobserver

    We could always try to address the causes, rather than the symptoms, of poverty.

    Will have nothing to do with votes.

  • commonsenseobserver

    I really don’t care about your BS.

    Certainly, YOU can base your thoughts on polls.
    We’ll base them on reality.

  • calhoun211

    Its to late.

  • calhoun211

    It doesn’t matter what the congress comes up with. So long as Oscuma and the POS holder are in power, their will be no enforcement of illegal immigration laws. Wake up they are here to stay and will take jobs from citizens. They will continue to drain tax revenues. Combined with Oscumacare we are screwed. The republicans will run another RINO so the demanazis will remain in the WH.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Even just spending one year on political vacation, getting involved in a small business, hunting and fishing the rest of the time, while still being involved in the policy debate at different levels, would be very healthy.

  • davesinsanantonio

    Well, you have a point, especially if they take some of the locals out hunting and fishing with them and really listen to what the plain folks, not the politicians and hangers-on, but people with their own farms and businesses have to say. Not lawyers or accountants, or local bureaucrats. But, plain folks who will tell it like it is. If they have to put up with Obummercare and EPA regulations, and the IRS, etc., then they may be salvageable. But, if they just come home and hang out with pols and wannabes, then no.

  • jaydickb

    I agree that is the most important issue, overall. But I was referring to the article and its objections to Rubio’s plan. The most important objection raised in the article is how to handle the illegals already here. There is near universal agreement that the flow must be stopped, although there is some disagreement on how best to do that.

  • Jim_Riggs

    “… former 35 year Republican…”

    That’s the best thing you said.

  • Melody Warbington

    Self-deportation is dumb? Tell it to Marshall County and other areas in Alabama. Four months after we passed our immigration bill, unemployment dropped 1.9% in parts of the state, especially in meat packing industries (one of those jobs Americans supposedly won’t do).

    And from: http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/06/alabama-official-says-tough-immigration-law-leading-to-self-deportation/

    On Monday, for example, the Wayne Farms chicken-processing plant in Marshall County held a jobs fair to fill slots that opened when many Hispanic workers left the county. The line “was probably equivalent to a couple of blocks … It was a largely Anglo and black group,” but also included Hispanics, said Ellis.

    “It is tough work, very tough … my momma did it for a while, I’ve had
    friends who did it,” said Ellis, who also works as a local sheriff.

    The new reform measures are also reducing classroom crowding in the 4,000-student school district, said Ellis. Roughly 150 kids of migrant workers have departed the district, and perhaps 500 more will leave as enforcement continues, he said. “It is tough on those kids,” but their departure will free up teachers to work with other Hispanic kids that need to learn English, he said.

    “A large proportion of the illegal Hispanic community has moved …
    self-deportation is a real thing,” said Ellis. Because of the exodus,
    the county’s unemployment rate has dropped to from about 9.5 percent to roughly 9.3 percent over the last several weeks, he said.

  • sarah417

    Blacks have historically voted Democrat as well. When the Republicans have so much more to offer, Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why would they not vote Republican? We have about 11 million illegals in America that we must deal with. Securing the border properly and letting no more in is the first step. A sound bill with future amnesty. With severe limitations such as no criminal background,10yrs to apply for a green card, taking their place in line, learning English, etc. I can deal with that.

  • PaladinLostHour

    What you and Bill S are ignoring here is that legalization will inevitably lead to citizenship, in the near term, for an 11 million strong cohort that is 1) low-information, 2) relatively youthful against the general population, 3) comfortable with, if not outright dependent on, an intrusive federal authority.

    I’m not for deporting them. I’m for leaving them exactly where there are, legally, until the passage of time and more secure borders ends them as an existential threat to limited Republican government. Sometimes, the compromise choice is just containment, and the fact that it makes *everyone* uncomfortable probably means its the right one.

  • PaladinLostHour

    “.. we could give them permanent residency but no voting rights, though
    that seems pretty odd to create effectively a second class of citizens.”

    Will never hold up to court challenge. Permanent residence with the right to work is green card status. All green card status holders are eligible to apply for citizenship. Creating an inferior class of such holders will fail on disproportionate impact (Hispanics overwhelmingly affected) and due process grounds.

    Honestly folks – we all need to stop thinking in the vacuum. Our courts legislate; we can’t pretend that some bill with ‘strict provisions” will rule full citizenship now efforts out of bounds.

  • PaladinLostHour

    “Either we reach out and attract hispanic voters or we die.”

    This is just an overly dramatic update of “Better Red than dead”.

    Are we really at the level of arguing “Better brown then drowned” ?

  • PaladinLostHour

    He’s got a point there.

    Pity its completely off topic – ie, the deliberate refocusing on a lack of documents, akin to ‘I left my driver’s license home, as opposed to the commission of an illegal act, by an alien, which contributes to wage depression and unemployment of citizen unskilled labor.

  • PaladinLostHour

    “What the Senator has said, to the best of my understanding, is that securing the border first and ensuring illegal immigrants do not receive federal benefits is a good starting point.”

    Except that’s not the starting point in Rubio’s proposal. The starting point, Day 1, is that all 11 million folks here have legal residency with work privileges. The benefits denial is nonsense. These folks will still get sick, and now, as legal residents, will have no disincentive to flood emergency rooms for routine care. Recall that overuse of emergent care by the poor was a primary driver for Obamacare, and it’ll be a race to see whether the courts, or Congress, extend those benefits within a year.

  • http://twostepstotheright.blogspot.com/ D.T. Dickinson

    Thank you. I read a lot more than I write, as I’m certainly no expert in pretty much any subject on here, I just say what I think in a hopefully level-headed tone.

    I did read your post on the 5% and liked it as well.

  • rightlane1111

    “Again, wait until the courts get ahold of this. Also, how long is the “lengthy non-immigrant status?” This does nothing to deal with the long-term welfare problem
    that will ensue from granting them green cards and citizenship.
    Furthermore, how will you avoid the bidding war? Even if Obama doesn’t
    move the bill to the left, Democrats will accept this only as the first
    step. Once they are granted the legal status, it will be even easier
    for them to become a political football by making welfare and a quicker
    path to citizenship the next civil rights issues.”

    We do have a welfare problem in the USA. Let’s, for the moment, leave Hispanics out of it. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPRtIOmPOD0

    Have we done anything…anything at all to fix this problem which can be multiplied (Black or White) a million times over? Maybe someone ought to introduce a bill to fix the Welfare System at the same time.

    And…we have another big problem…UNIONS. What does this have to do with the subject…they demand from the corporation/company what is going to happen!!! So, states that have right to work laws are being attacked. Can you see Hispanics, fleeing from an impoverished country having Big Union take care of them?

    There are too many things unequal in this country. There is no collective..it is more like slavery. Someone in our Republican Party has to take the lead and define and communicate our ideals that will give these people the hope of a better future and enable them to contribute to society without the strong arm of the unions or the welfare state.

  • PaladinLostHour

    Dude, when you put “White Race” in a post – and in capital letters – it suggests you’d be more at home on Stormfront or Vdare than here.

    The color isn’t the problem. The culture is the problem. If Sweden was parked on our southern border, and hordes of blue eyed blondes* were streaming across, we’d have the same ‘Government as Willy Wonka / Daddy’ problem we’re having with Mexican immigrants.The dependency mindset is inimical to limited republican government, whatever United Color of Benetton it comes in.

    *ok. I’d make an exception for the Swedish Bikini Team. Every principle bends somewhere.

  • fightnright

    right, dave!

    Traditionally, impoverished classes of immigrants who landed on our
    shores were easily led to embrace populist, Democrat party programs when the leaders and politicians introduced themselves to these arrivals and highlighted their social interests, and their avowal to support the working common man. It took a few generations for a middle class of more secure and prosperous voters to arise from those masses of poor. These immigrants understood full well how their hard work and application created their own wealth, and upward mobility for their children and grandchildren. Former immigrants had no wraparound, 24-7 entitlement programs to provide a comfortable – currently even working class – lifestyle, which would save them from the shame of having to beg relatives or friends to provide bed and board. They also became aware of the critical importance of education adding to their family’s potential
    and worth as each decade went by.

    This practical scenario in learning independence and freedom from a government whose largesse insures financial security only at the cost of sacrificing individual liberty is missing from the contemporary illegal immigrant experience. Dependence on the government for bed and board requires vows of fealty to it, because of the threat to personal survival.

    Once upon a time in America, it may have been a given that generations of newcomers would eventually produce a vital and productive middle class crucial to economic growth and development. With an entirely new paradigm in cultural conditioning and indoctrination, combined with disregard for US history and First Principle philosophies in primary schools, that is sadly no longer the case.

  • Bill S

    The point is that screeching “AMNESTY” at every turn makes us look like idiots. We need to treat every proposal at face value and stop trying to roadblock every effort of immigration reform.

  • checkmate2012

    I can say NAIVE and agree! If they’ve been here for several years, living here without fear, why come forward now? It’s kinda like asking gun owners to register their guns…so they can be rounded up later?

  • rabun1016

    If you are not suspicious of anything the left concedes, you should be.

  • checkmate2012

    This is the right idea. Border security is the most important thing to do NOW. The 11M should not frame the debate on immigration policy. The threat of terrorists that hate the U.S. should be the focus and the violent drug cartels. Let the 11M stay in their current status for all I care; just shut the borders once and for all and focus on immigration policy from now on that preserves our sovereignty and national identity. How soon we forget 9/11.

  • littlehouse18

    Actually many Black Americans voted Republican before the welfare state came in.

  • fightnright

    Dems have long endeavored to conflate border security only with immigration reform, thereby making the border issue subordinate to the question of whether those who favor strict oversight are racist or xenophobic – their preferred way of framing the debate.

    But how right you are, check, to remind us that we not only have to deal with the presence of the 11-M, but also the echoes of 9-11. Great point.

  • littlehouse18

    Escorting them right into the dependency culture will just make them into Democrats, and increase the proportion that votes Democrat.

  • jhobbes

    All this griping and sniping! The McRubio Amnesty is a blessing. 1) twenty million undocumented workers get to keep their jobs. 2) twenty million US citizens and legal immigrants get to keep their unemployment benefits and food stamps. 3) twenty million new illegal aliens get in (about a million a year) to fill the jobs the newly amnestied twenty million no longer want because 4) now they too can go on food stamps and collect unemployment 5) the thousands of Al Queda, Hizbollah, Hamas and other assorted terrorists already here on expired student visas get to become American citizens with all the protections of the Constitution 6) Anglo-phonic speakers get to finally learn Spanish (and Arabic if they are living in Detroit) 7) no need to bother with all the fuss of a Republican party, as the Democrat party will have a permanent majority what with anchor babies, family reunification, lottery visas and future amnesties of the next twenty million undocumented workers 8) and America at long last turns into a third world country. Perfect! At that point no one else will want to come here and the problem will be solved. We owe a big debt of gratitude to the visionary Marco Rubio!

  • Seedyrom

    MARXISM double talk, ignore the liberal clown who spewed lies

    Latinos didn’t vote for President Obama because Mitt Romney was seen as insensitive on immigration. Yes they did!!!! Does anyone really trust an unscientific poll especially when liberals have admitted they take FOX polls to skew them. Remember they want more unemployed followers!

    Latinos are not liberal, most have lived a conservative christian life, dems are no longer the party of god and most latinos are purple voters. Its all about the candidate so ignore liberal liars.

    Of course demographics swing elections, more marxism stupidity. Its about issues that matter to them, jobs, security, retirees and location matters. So age, income, education matters, never trust liberals until you understand marxism in detail! Maybe you’re the problem because you believe liberals! Learn more about them and trust me, they will lie all day long just like the media who supported Adolf Hitler.

  • Seedyrom

    Before MLK died, blacks voted with the GOP. The GOP became ballless men who would not stand up against the lies and dems stole the vote. Hillary Clinton is a victim of race hustling lies, she deserved it after running for the Senate spewing racial lies herself…..karma’s a bitch.