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Applying Conservative Principles To Immigration

I appreciate the opportunity to respond to Erick’s post last night regarding the principles for immigration reform I have recently developed. Before diving into the details of the plan, I want to take a moment to point out how the debate about immigration reflects positively on the conservative movement in general. Unlike the left, whose default tactic is to attack and destroy the personal character of those who disagree with their views, the conservative movement is capable of accommodating a vibrant internal debate on important issues solely on the merits. RedState has always been a welcoming forum for that sort of debate.

First, let me identify the problem we face. We have a legal immigration system that doesn’t work, we don’t have an effective system to enforce our immigration laws, and we have by some estimates as many as 11 million human beings living in the United States without the proper immigration documents in a state of de facto amnesty. It’s a problem that has both political and economic ramifications on our nation.

On the political front, a growing number of voters of Asian and Hispanic descent have been convinced by the left that conservative opposition to immigration reform equates to being anti-immigrant. This is unfair, and it is untrue. But they have pulled it off and, as a result, our ability to convince these fast-growing communities that the principles of limited government and free enterprise are better for them than big government and collectivism has been impaired.

The economic ramifications, however, are even more serious. For example, our technology sector creates roughly 120,000 computer engineering jobs a year, but our universities only graduate about 40,000 students a year in that field. The long term answer, of course, is to get more American students to graduate in this field. But the immediate problem is that, in the absence of an immigration system where these workers can be brought here, these jobs are sent overseas to them.

Another example is in agriculture, where a stable and affordable domestic supply of food is critical to our national security and our quality of life. Agriculture has always required a significant work force from abroad, but we do not have a system through which growers and dairies can bring a workforce legally into the U.S.

This broken system of immigration, combined with lax enforcement, has resulted in our illegal immigration problem.

In an ideal world, we could go back to 1986 and rewrite the immigration reform efforts implemented then to account for these issues and to ensure that real enforcement measures would be implemented. But in the real world, we cannot do that. We have to deal with what we have in the best way possible and make sure that this never ever happens again.

The principles I have proposed to deal with this issue are not perfect, but I believe they create a framework for dealing with this reality in a responsible and reasonable way. And I think conservatives have already won important concessions from Democrats that we can build on to shape the actual legislation.

First, we would modernize our legal immigration system. In essence, we create one that meets the needs this country has in this new century. For example, while I support our family-based system of immigration, we can no longer afford to have less than ten percent of our immigration based on skill and talent. We need a functional guest worker program so that, in times of low unemployment and rapid economic growth, our industries have the labor they need to continue growing. And we need an agricultural worker program that allows our growers to contract the seasonal and year round labor they need legally.

Second, we need real enforcement mechanisms. An employment verification system is the key to this. We have the technology to implement such a system, so we just need to do it. Over 40 percent of our illegal immigrants entered legally and overstayed their visas. That’s why we need to have a complete system of tracking the entry and exit of visitors, using the technologies available to us today. And we need to achieve control of our borders. This is not just an immigration issue; this is a national security and sovereignty issue. And it can be done. The southern border is actually divided into nine separate sectors. There has been progress made in some sectors and not enough on others. We need to establish the high probability of intercepting illegal crossings in each of these sectors in a timely and effective manner.

And third, we have to deal with those who are here now without documents. I am not happy about the fact that we face this problem. But we do. Most of these are people who will be here for the rest of their lives with or without documents, so it is in our best interest to deal with them and to make sure this never happens again.

This is how I have proposed we do so. First, those who have violated our immigration laws must come forward and undergo a background check. If they have committed a serious crime, they will be deported. If they have not, they will have two choices. They can avail themselves of the current law which requires them to return to their native country, wait ten years and then apply for a green card. Or if they decide to remain in the United States, they will do so under the equivalent of a non-immigrant work permit by paying a substantial fine and back taxes. If they choose the non-immigrant work visa, they will not qualify for any federal benefits, including ObamaCare.

Those who choose the non-immigrant work permit will not be allowed to apply for a green card for a substantial period of time. And they will not be allowed to apply until the enforcement mechanisms outlined above are in place. Thereafter, once these conditions are met, and if they have not violated any laws while holding the work permit, the only thing they will be allowed to do is apply for a green card using the same process everyone else uses. That is, they apply, they wait in line behind everyone who has applied before them and when their turn comes up, they have to qualify for one of the existing green card programs.

In his post, Erick raised several points. First, he expresses doubt that the border can ever be secured because no one will ever agree that it is secured. There are ways to measure the security at the border. There are real and identifiable standards that can be used. And there are ways to certify this, free of political interference. If the bill that is ultimately crafted achieves this, I will support it. If it does not, I won’t.

Second, he objects to the notion of “jobs that Americans won’t do”. He correctly points out that the more accurate description is “jobs that Americans won’t do at that price point”. The fact is that, as Americans, we have reached a certain standard of living that requires us to make a certain amount of money before we will do certain jobs. The problem is that, in a free market, the cost of production is always passed on to the consumer. That is one of the reasons why I object to tax increases – because the cost is always paid by workers and customers. The same is true for labor costs. There is a price point at which our farmers simply won’t do business because they will not be able to offer products at an affordable price.

Erick’s final objection is that the plan does nothing to address the real problems with immigration – in other words, the black market for low skilled labor, long delays in the system and so forth. This is not accurate. Our principles call for the creation of a guest worker program that, when effectively implemented in conjunction with a workplace verification system, would wipe out the black market for low skilled labor. And as the principles call for, any modernization effort would have to address the long delays in the system, which a modernized agricultural worker program and STEM visa reform would do.

Perhaps the most widely used criticism I have seen is that this nothing but an updated version of earlier efforts. There are significant differences. The previous efforts did not have effective border security, workplace enforcement and entry-exit enforcement triggers, whereas this plan must or I will not support it.

The previous plan created a special pathway to citizenship through a Z-Visa, whereas these principles do not. And if the bill does, I will not support it.

Finally, Erick expresses concerns that we should not pander in the name of a solution. On this point, Erick and I are in total agreement. I’m not pursuing reforms to our immigration system because of the last election or future elections. I’m doing what I can because I believe it’s important for our country, because conservative principles can make this legislation better, and immigration is one of the few issues where government has a legitimate and central role to play.

As I have clearly stated, I will not engage in a bidding war with the President to see who can come up with the fastest and cheapest path to citizenship. That is why having these principles in writing was so important. We now have a bipartisan collection of senators – including some prominent allies of the President – committed, in writing, to border security and other enforcement triggers, a functional guest worker program and the idea that those who violated our immigration laws and stay on a work permit will not be able to receive federal benefits. We even got President Obama to concede that undocumented immigrants who avail themselves of this program will not be eligible for federal benefits, including Obamacare, during their lengthy non-immigrant status. If the President decides to support a plan to the left of this, he will do so in conflict with leaders of his own party – not to mention the majority of Americans – and ultimately bear the responsibility for derailing a bi-partisan immigration plan.

I do not pretend that this is a perfect solution. I know that the idea of accommodating people who violated our immigration laws, in any way, makes many people uncomfortable. But I have concluded that it is not good for our country to continue to allow this problem to linger. We are better off solving this once and for all.

Now begins the process of turning these principles into a bill. The details will matter a lot. This is another place where conservatives and readers of RedState can help influence the final outcome. When I was elected, insisting on transparency and openness in Congress was a central topic of discussion. It’s something I will insist on throughout this process. I welcome input, criticism and suggestions. A bill this important cannot be written behind closed doors and then forced on the American people. Whatever our work group comes up with is a starting point, not a take-it-or-leave-it proposition.

And I understand there are those who will not support any effort. Some raise valid points and I respect their views. But in the end, to leave things the way they are now is de facto amnesty and a barrier to accomplishing important government reforms in other areas. It is no way to run a nation of immigrants.

COMMENTS

  • rightlane1111

    There is one other problem BESIDES securing the border…TAKING THE #$%# PEN away from Obama with his EOs. With one swipe of the pen…he gave illegals who said they wanted an education the right to enter this country. So…as a Conservative Republican…BORDERS SECURED…NO EXECUTIVE ORDERS OUT OF THE DICTATOR.

    You are right….we have a mega problem in the USA. Obama uses immigration for political reasons…period. He no more cares about illegals than Democrats care about Blacks…they are a means to an end…their re-election. Don’t believe me…go visit Detroit.

    We have to do more about this. They are here and what do we do about it. They are not going back to Mexico..even if you try to get them back…fines and all. They are here illegally and there must be consequences to that, which you point out. Perhaps automatic deductions out of their paychecks to pay fines.

    For those that think that Senator Rubio is wrong about Agricultural jobs….how about this…let’s let Trumpka’s guys (the union) pick your food. DO YOU THINK YOU COULD AFFORD TO EAT!!!!

    So, Senator, while you are attempting to fix this broken system…our Party might want to look at the welfare state in this country that enables people to sit home, live off our dime and won’t take ANY job because the welfare pay is too good. I am talking US citizens here.

    We have mega problems in this country right now and immigration is one of them. We can stick our heads in the sand…or whine on a blog board…but something has to be done to fix this. The biggest obstacle is to address O’s ability to go around the Constitution with Executive Orders that would make this bill or any other null and void.

  • storminwgfp

    I have never understood the “family – based” system. If you don’t want to immigrate to America without multiple chains of family coming along; don’t. That should be the “deal”. We should not accommodate every immigrant wanna be with all their personal desires. It’s “our” country; here’s our rules; take it or leave it. We’ve got plenty of people at the gates.
    Just because one in your family hits the lottery doesn’t mean we should allow another 50+ over the next few years.

  • Bill S

    The way to fix the EO thing would have been to elect someone else.

  • cheesycon

    look, I think you’re changing the subject here. We had an election for President, we lost, so now we focus on the Legislative stuff. We can’t wave a magic wand and take away anything from Obama because Obama himself could just veto it. We have a system and we need to work in the system to get things done and for once this immigration issue isn’t about Obama at all.

  • cheesycon

    and anyway President Bush issued lots of EOs too, they aren’t always bad things. see

    http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/orders/

  • Sir Aaron

    Senator Rubio:
    I’m going to take some time to digest your response. In the meantime, I wanted to thank you for posting here. The mere fact that you did so elevates your stock in my book.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to Erick’s diary regarding your plan and principles for immigration reform.

    Perhaps it would be helpful if you backed up some of your claims with documentation as your claim that “there is a price point at which our farmers simply won’t do business because they won’t be able to offer products at an affordable price” and “we need an agricultural worker program that allows our growers to contract the seasonal and year round labor they need legally,” are misleading and not factually true. For a more accurate account of the current situation and what effect there would be on the cost of produce should incentives be removed for growers to hire illegals, see this: http://www.fairus.org/issue/the-wages-of-agricultural-workers

    Aside from questioning some of your assertions in this diary, how do you account for the blatant flip-flop you have demonstrated since you arrived in Washington? Don’t you recall stating unequivocally that you were opposed to amnesty during your campaign? And have you no concern for damaging your credibility by abruptly changing positions after winning the election?

    I find what you are doing in terms of the flip-flop very disturbing and it is causing me to lose trust in your ability to be honest going forward.

  • MiamiDave

    Senator, it is to your tremendous credit that you came here and offered this rebuttal. It shows courage and character.

    In terms of policy, I am skeptical that this President and the Democrat Party would ever allow the Commission appointed to deem the border secure to be anything but a rubber stamp. Indeed, Politico’s left-leaning Roger Simon noted this morning that “Democrats want to believe the commission, to be made up of “governors, attorneys general and community leaders living along the Southwest border” is just an olive branch to conservatives and has no true power.” I fear he’s right and I fear, respectfully, that the President and Senate will trample any efforts to give the Commission the teeth you hope it will have, sir.

  • plh

    No path to citizenship for the 11 million unless they return to their home countries and wait ten years. I believe the Senator’s piece addresses this.

  • cheesycon

    no, they also have an option of staying here as a guest worker, not having federal benefits, and then getting in line for a green card

    here is the exact part Sen. Rubio said about that

    “Or if they decide to remain in the United States, they will do so under the equivalent of a non-immigrant work permit by paying a substantial fine and back taxes. If they choose the non-immigrant work visa, they will not qualify for any federal benefits, including ObamaCare.

    Those who choose the non-immigrant work permit will not be allowed to apply for a green card for a substantial period of time. And they will not be allowed to apply until the enforcement mechanisms outlined above are in place. Thereafter, once these conditions are met, and if they have not violated any laws while holding the work permit, the only thing they will be allowed to do is apply for a green card using the same process everyone else uses. That is, they apply, they wait in line behind everyone who has applied before them and when their turn comes up, they have to qualify for one of the existing green card programs.”

    i just dont see why this is a priority over stricter enforcement on employers

  • jaydickb

    I see your reservations, but the Senator’s outline does attempt to deal with the issue. The main way it does this is to have lots of elected state officials. The officials will be named, by office, in the bill. That means many, hopefully most, of the commission’s members will be on the commission outside of the control of the President.

  • vangoghssister

    Senator Rubio -

    Thank you for coming here to outline your plan and to explain your thoughts. While I agree there are things that must change, I do not agree that our current “path to citizenship” needs to be fixed. I do not know if it was your parents or grandparents who came to America seeking a better life; however, I am assuming they worked hard to fulfill all of the requirements to become citizens. The day they received their citizenship and took the oath was a wonderful day! Those of us born here can never truly understand what it is to renounce citizenship of one’s country of birth, leave behind all that has ever been known to come here to make a home for family, work hard to provide, as well as work hard to be worthy of American citizenship. These are the people we want to become citizens and we should support their efforts. Whether they realize it or not, by taking the current road to citizenship, they are demonstrating one of the most conservative principles…those things that are the most valuable in life are those we work the hardest to obtain. You and I and 99% of those here on RedState know and understand this. Sadly, our worthy opponents on the left never will.

  • jaydickb

    I agree completely. I have never understood the logic of giving priority to relatives in immigration. As I recall, this was a typical Democrat “bleeding heart” proposal. I say give priority to immediate family only; spouses, dependent children, and that’s it. The immigration system should be for the benefit of the U.S. citizens, not citizens of other countries. Humanitarian concerns have little place in setting these priorities.

  • freemkts

    The problem is by doing nothing we’ll (conservatives) be the ones living in the shadows, as we’ll lose every election for the next 50 years. This is what happened to Republicans in California. They once elected Ronald Reagan governor, and now conservatives are a permanent minority there. We can’t let that happen by just demagagouing this issue.

  • earlgrey

    The President has already proven that he will not abide by some immigration laws via Executive Order. Why should we expect any different when it comes to enforcement of the border. The drawback of a lawless President, is that we are no longer interested or have faith in our laws.

    So why push this effort now, when we are virtually guaranteed that it will be only enforced in the most politically positive way possible for Democrats?

  • plh

    The potential for mischief in both crafting and enforcing the bill is most certainly there, which is why we should be actively engaged in the process and ready, if necessary, to torpedo it before it becomes law as we did the last time.

  • plh

    At least ten years from the time temporary work status is granted to the individual applicant. No “free stuff” of any kind, either. And non-payment of hospital ER bills resulting in automatic revocation of status.

  • westcoastpatriette

    I’m essentially of the belief that all we need to do is enforce the laws already on the books. That leaves the onus on the illegal alien to proceed at their own risk. I am completely opposed to creating a path to citizenship and think Rubio is buying into the panic over losing hispanic support and that that is his primary reason for switching his position and wanting to pander to illegal aliens.

    If any reform is needed, it is in the area of enforcement on the border and on a simple E-Verify system for employers to use to dry up the primary magnet that draws illegals here. The things we need to do are actually quite simple and entail removing all the magnets that keep illegals here and keep them coming back. The problem is with the politicizing of this issue and the resulting lack of will to do what needs to be done and, more importantly, what is best for America not what is best for illegal aliens and their families.

  • libertynugget

    My big problem is that I’m too cynical for my own good and have little faith that this isn’t going to cost the taxpayers billions of dollars. I appreciate that you’ve addressed the issue with receiving government benefits with the non-immigrant Visas, but I think its a pipe dream.

    What about the kids/spouses of these workers? If you have an unskilled laborer making minimum wage-ish, how would he/she support a family with 2 kids? Do the kids get benefits? What if the kid gets sick or hurt, they’re just going to come out of pocket and cover the medical cost that are exploding thanks to Obamacare? I make a decent amount of money and my insurance cost are doing nothing but going up. What if they have kids while here? Are they still automatically citizens? Are we going to repeal that anchor baby amendment? Are they then entitled to benefits if they weren’t before?
    I’m sure that sentiment will fold quickly as soon as the media starts running stories of poor visa holding kids who can’t see the doctor ’cause they aint got no Obamacare.’

    What will happen to anyone caught in the country illegally after this is passed. Automatic deportation?

    Clearly this is an issue that needs to be addressed, but it is ultimately going to be adding to the government handout list. More and more moochers… Less and less makers.

    I would prefer fixing the entitlement issues, THEN concentrating Amnesty/Immigration Reform.

    Maybe I’m just an a**hole… I don’t know…

    It is cool that you brought your argument to the forum though, and I respect that immensely.

  • irishgirl

    I have to confess that I, too, have always been perplexed at that particular assertion. It makes me think we’re in worse shape than originally thought.

  • General_Confusion

    Senator I’ll be blunt.

    You are being nothing more than a “useful idiot”. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot)

    Your gang consists of two groups. One group is the Democrats that have NO intention of negotiating with you and only want amnesty and the votes that the Democrats will gain .

    The other group is the willing idiots (McCain and Graham) who seek nothing more than amnesty and the votes they won’t get but think they will.

    You are their “conservative” cover, nothing more.

    Lastly a few things:

    One, I don’t get “Congratulations you broke our laws, we owe you”. Should we expand that to other areas of law breaking or is this just a special consideration for illegal aliens?

    Two, Farmers and high tech companies have some sort of right to government approved cheap labor? They get to bypass labor supply and demand for wages? Are you proposing we should do that in other industries, and if not why not?

  • General_Confusion

    So the key to retaking California for the GOP is open borders and amnesty?

  • freemkts

    No. California is a lost cause. The Republicans blew it there 20 years ago by allowing themselves to be portrayed as intolerant to hispanics. Now a whole generaration of hispanics view Republicans as facists.

    We can’t let that happen elsewhere. We have to play a part in fixing the system. We can’t cling to self deportation and building electric fences with alligator filled moats as our immigration policy. Do it and hispanics will become as loyal a voting block for Dems as blacks are.

  • hacimo

    Part of the process for insuring that we never again find ourselves in the present dilemma will have to be empowering the states. We need a immigration system where the sovereign states are fully authorized to participate as partners with the federal government in enforcing the rules. For example the states should have the power to arrest illegal immigrants inside their borders. Moreover if an Illegal is in state custody and the state requests assistance from the federal government, then the ICE should be obliged to take custody of the Alien and to deport that person with no further appeal or possibility of parole or work release. The presecutorial discretion of the federal government has been abused and we must never again be subjected to the spectacle of a president taking the law into his own hands and issuing decrees that grant work permits to millions of illegal aliens. There must be no possibility of conditional release for aliens once they are in custody nor can the president have authority to issue any sort of temporary work permit. Citizens and the states must be empowered to sue the director of the ICE agents if they fail to perform their duty.

  • dmart81

    I have faith in Mr. Rubio, but I do not have faith in the people he is working with.

  • mikwcas

    the new deal
    the great society
    social security
    medicare
    medicaid
    welfare
    immigration reform of 86

    these liberal/democratic “reform measures” and new entitlement policys to help the “little guy” have all matured into full blown disasters. The dems response is look the other way, nothing to see here folks. while the republicans, minus newts welfare reform, answer is always the same, please let us fix it, we love fixing destructive liberal messes. even when good people such as you, Mr Senator or Congressman Ryan, offer solutions they are solutions to what and to what effect? the dems and the media just lie distort and pounce the holy heck out of anything no matter how reasonable or necessary it may be. so many of us see that these problems have no reasonable solutions as they are houses built on sand in the first place, and eventually no matter what proposed fix by any republican technocrat, will collapse. while republicans sit there looking stupid at best complicit at worst.

    i too applaud you for making yourself available to EE and Redstate and hope your efforts avail and you can muster some positive change. I guess i’m just a little to much of a cynic these days, besides, i greatly doubt Pres EO will care much about any plan whether he signs or no.

  • Frank_Katz

    Senator Rubio, Thank you for your post, but I’m afraid that there is nothing conservative or logical about the approach that you are now advocating.
    Amnesty is wrong economically, morally and logically. It’s wrong economically because it means that the wages of unskilled American workers will perpetually be driven downward while the costs of a welfare state that we can no longer afford continue to be driven upward. Unlike the 19th century, we no longer have a vast untamed continent to settle. We have a high tech and highly competitive international economy and we should focus on cherry picking the best and brightest immigrants from around the world, rather than encouraging continued waves of unskilled and illegal immigrants.

    It’s wrong morally, because it’s patently unfair to the millions of persons who play by the rules each year and wait for extended periods of time to immigrate legally to the United States and it’s equally unfair to millions of unemployed Americans and their families.

    It’s wrong logically because we will never be able to secure our borders as long as we continue to send the message that anyone who successfully evades our border security can eventually count on amnesty. As with illegal immigration, we have an epidemic of auto theft in this country, yet no one suggests that the solution is to let every thief keep his stolen car as long as he pays a token fine. The sad fact is that wages will always be substantially less in Latin America and as soon as this batch of illegals is legalized they will be replaced with 11 million more. In fact, the only way to secure the border is to make it clear that people who come illegally can have no future here.
    Finally, this seems to be one of those rare instances where good policy converges with good politics for the Republican Party. The fact is that the best the Republican Party has ever done with Hispanics was the approximately 40% that Bush achieved in 2000 (and even those numbers were somewhat skewed because of disproportionate Hispanic support in Texas). Thus, even in the most wildly optimistic scenario, Democrats would net 20 new voters for every 100 that are legalized. That is hardly compelling electoral arithmetic and simply ensures the continued expansion of the welfare state and the marginalizatin of the Republican Party.

    In fact, even after Reagan passed his amnesty in 1986, the Republicans only received about 30% of the Hispanic vote in the following election cycle – which is virtually identical to the portion of the Hispanic vote that Romney received, notwithstanding Romney’s enforcement oriented immigration approach. And in the overall electorate, Romney did significantly better than McCain – who was the poster child for amnesty – even in McCain’s home state of Arizona where Hispanics constitute about a third of the electorate. In a series of articles at the National Review, both Heather Mac Donald of the Manhattan Institute and Mark Krikorian have persuasively debunked the notion (far better than I) that amnesty or any sort of mass legalization will yield any dividends for the Republican Party.

    Though it’s been derided by some pundits, Mitt Romney and Chris Kobach’s (Kansas Secretary of State) approach of attrition through enforcement (or “self-deportation”) actually does work. Most people are rationale and do respond to incentives. When it becomes impossible to obtain gainful employment or live an unfettered life as a result of mechanisms like mandatory E-Verify or empowering the police to question the immigration status of people whom they’ve otherwise lawfully detained, many illegal aliens will leave of their own accord.
    In fact, that is precisely what happened in Arizona where over 100,000 illegal aliens left the state (many to California not surprisingly) after Arizona passed its legislation. Imagine what we could accomplish by adopting such an approach on a national level.

    Let’s secure the borders, protect American workers, and encourage millions of illegals to self-deport, then in a few years we can reasonably discuss a limited amnesty for the so-called “Dream Act” kids or for responsible persons, on an individual rather than mass basis, who can demonstrate long standing and productive ties to the United States. In the modified words of Charles Krauthammer – “First enforcement, then a limited amnesty.”

    I know there is a natural temptation to want to sweep this issue aside and put it behind us, but unfortunately you seem to have adopted a shortsighted approach that alienates the base in the pursuit of benefits that will prove illusory and costly.

  • Kyle-MI

    It is a loose-loose situation. By granting amnesty, we will be the ones living in the shadows and loose every election for the next 50 years. We are doomed either way. We have a chance by fighting this. We don’t have a chance by just giving in.

  • Bill S

    I’d advise against any future “bluntness” to Senator Rubio or any other U.S. Senator or congressman who posts here. You can respond without that kind of lack of respect.

  • Melody Warbington

    Senator, thank you for asking for our input. Hopefully, you will read our questions and respond.

    I actually had a long response written, but for the most part, I’ll just go with what Daniel Horowitz said here: http://www.redstate.com/2013/01/30/a-rejoinder-to-senator-rubio-on-illegal-immigration/

    U.S. citizenship is not something to be taken lightly, either by birth or naturalized citizens. I suspect those who have spent years of their time and money to go through the process legally may even cherish their citizenship more than the average citizen who takes it for granted. Vast benefits and responsibilities come with that citizenship, and as such, it should not be given by the stroke of a pen or at the whim of a Congress that has shirked its responsibility to deal with the issue for years. Rather, it should be earned by meeting the criteria already in place for the path to citizenship.

    Once all of those are met, I agree that the system can and should be streamlined. For example, in Tennessee, someone going through the process must make multiple trips to the immigration office in Memphis. There’s not even an immigration office in Nashville, the state capitol. I know of a family in middle TN who helped an young Hispanic man of outstanding character and a valuable employee get his green card. The trips to Memphis weren’t just difficult, they were a hardship and cost not only his time, but also the company for which he works.

    That said, how do you address the people like the young man above who have met the criteria and are here legally? Do you speed up their process, and if so, how? At what point, would they be allowed to vote? If you’re going to push amnesty, those working through the system legally should be first in line, but let’s restrict that by delaying their right to vote for a number of years – say 10. And if you push amnesty for illegal immigrants a/k/a undocumented immigrants, they do not get to vote. Ever. They forfeited a path to that right the minute they chose to enter and remain in the country via illegal means.

  • trem

    Thank you Senator coming here and defending your plan. I do not agree with it 100%, but unlike some others on our side I understand the reality of not being able to get everything we want after being trounced in an election. I hope your plan passes and that it accomplishes what you claim it will, but most of all what I hope is that removing the immigration issue from the table will allow us to talk to the Hispanic people about the real issues facing this country and winning their vote fair and square from the Democrats.

  • testing

    Senator,

    Children who were brought here by their parents illegally have not done anything wrong and should be treated differently from those that have came here knowingly in violation of our laws. I think it is a conservative concept to not punish the children for the father’s sins; that is God’s right but not ours. I propose that you boldly add to your reforms that if a child is brought here illegally before they are of high school age but they successfully graduate from a high school here in the US then they be given automatic American citizenship with their diploma. Naturally this assumes they can speak English and have no criminal record. This is not the Dream Act which I consider a Democrat Party marketing tool. I have met people who did not know they were illegal until high school. They were just as integrated into American culture as you or I and are just as patriotic as you or I. Do these children, their parents, America, the Republican Party, and conservatism in general a favor and champion this proposal. If someone asks if it is amnesty just admit that it is but that the child never intentionally did anything wrong. If they say that the children are benefiting from their parents illegal activity, just say true again but the same happens all the time when white collar criminals send their children to college and private schools; we don’t try and suck the knowledge out of the child’s brain after we discover the parent’s crime.Remember the children are innocent and no-one can argue differently.

    I realize that this will not be read by the Senator but perhaps he has a staffer checking responses. Please understand that most of us conservatives know right from wrong and punishing the innocent for their parents actions is not right.Conservatives also love bold clear-cut simple actions and this is one. Ultimately it will help differentiate conservatism from liberalism – we do the right thing even if we don’t like it.

  • LibertyWins

    Agreed! There are ways to say essentially the same thing in a constructive , respectful manner to a busy gentleman person hold office that gives his time and his neck out to post here on such a hotly debated issue.

  • confab

    The Conservative principle that first comes to my mind is not to reward criminals with US citizenship, and the democrat party with 30 million more voters.

    The democrats haven’t won a victory on their ideas.. They won a tactical victory by flooding the country with foreign nationals who happen to love government programs. They’re acutely aware of this fact and, because they are, there is absolutely no reason to believe that they will pursue any kind of enforcement in good faith.. This is the party that sued AZ for daring to enforce the law..

    I’ve got to say here that I’m very disappointed in the Republican party as of late. I feel as though my decades of faithfully voting for Republicans has largely been taken for granted and pretty much just wasted. I feel that they have become corrupt and, to that end, they have actively participated in creating this situation by turning a blind eye to the law.. So that agra, construction and other interests had a healthy supply of illegal (and therefore cheap) labor, which helped to suppress wages and increase margins.

    I can’t think of a time when the Republicans have acted to make me more free (and don’t say the Bush Tax Cuts, as these are largely just a deferment. any government that grows as quickly as ours does will have to be fed at some point), or have acted to shrink the government.. I can’t think of a single Conservative principle that the party will back without exception. I’m beginning to wonder if I’m wasting my time by showing up to vote at all?

    Sir.. You’re going to laugh at this, but I am telling you flatly: If the Republican party doesn’t straighten up.. Right Now.. And decide what they are and who they represent, you’re going to lose votes. I don’t know if your “evolving” position on immigration reflects your own political aspirations, or if you really believe this is best for the country.. But I know this: If you care about Conservatism, you’d better stop.

    We are going to reach a point, very soon, when this nation will be so far divorced from the Constitution that we claim to represent and seeing Conservative principles that we espouse reflected in what comes out of DC that people are going to assume it’s hopeless to stem the tide, reverse our course and return things to the way we wish them to be. When that happens, and it’s obvious that no meaningful correction can occur.. Voters will abandon their principles and begin to vote for the sake of narrow self interest… As the various democrat constituencies do currently.

    And when that happens, Republicans will be the second fiddle party.. They’ll be left talking about concepts that voters no longer prioritize or are willing to sacrifice for.. They will laugh, sir, when you talk about the Constitution, the rule of law and limited government.. Because, frankly.. The Republicans only selectively support these things… As this Amnesty push clearly demonstrates..

    Regards.. God Bless You.

  • Jim_Riggs

    I like your ideas and your questions. Hopefully the senator will answer them.

  • gawken

    Senator Rubio, above all thanks for your willingness to engage your fellow conservatives in debate about this matter, on this and other forums. I believe you when you state that you will NOT sign on to any plan that does not encompass the requirements you stipulate.

    My problem with all this is that government ( which includes you) is requiring a quid pro quo from the rest of us ( citizens) in return for doing something that you are already supposed to be doing: secure our borders to protect us.

    A nation that cannot, nay, will not secure its own borders is already ceding a part of its own sovereignty.

    Senator, you state in response to one of Erick’s key objections, that:

    “…There are ways to measure security at the border. There are real and identifiable standards that can be used. And there are ways to certify this, free of political influence..”

    Senator Rubio, the devil is indeed in the details, and I for one, among a great many others, do no believe that our government can do this.

    At a basic, nuts and bolts level:

    THEY CAN’T EVEN DELIVER THE MAIL EFFICIENTLY.

    And the entire premise of your argument is that the Democrats in DC, the Reids, Pelosis, Schumers, and Obamas will act in good faith. THEY. WILL. NOT. PERIOD! And with respect, you don’t really address this in your response. You gloss over it, as if it’s a given. IT. IS. NOT.

    Senator, I was among your earliest admirers and supporters. I attended a fund raiser at a sports bar in St. Pete, in early 2009, and came away very impressed. I was telling all my friends that I’d just shaken hands with a future President.

    I want to believe that this is possible. I trust you, but have not made the sale by any means to date. I would have to say that at best, you are naive, and that is a trait we can’t afford in our leaders.

  • WmCraig

    Senator Rubio, I appreciate your explanation here, and your respect for the Editors and readers of Red State. You do indeed propose sweeping changes that could result in a vast improvement. But I have some reservations. Call it the what happened to DOMA Syndrome. All the enforcement rests with administration. An administration that has a reputation for ignoring regulations that do not meet their agenda, while making up things they think should be the law. Like DOMA, which the administration simply chose not to enforce.

    The President can choose to embrace anything that puts legal permission in the hands of people who came here illegally. There is nothing stopping the president from granting everyone this authority as the background check will only be as good as the administration chooses to make it. And I am not certain how you propose to deal with anyone that does not chose to do either, but instead chooses to remain underground. What will uncover these people if the administration chooses not to do pursue them aggressively.

    WmCraig

  • commonsenseobserver

    Yeah, I suppose Obama was pretty attractive to the Democrats. And Edwards wasn’t that unpopular with them either.

  • confab

    Speaking of which, I’m a little surprised that Senator McCain can find anyone with which to ally on this issue (Graham is a given, I suppose.. ) after telling American workers that they would not, and could not “Pick lettuce for $50.00 an hour”

    He was absolutely mocking about it.. It was during his Presidential campaign.. The clip is on You Tube.

    I’m amazed anyone wants anything to do with him on the Immigration issue after that.

    Think it would make him and the issue toxic. Perhaps he doesn’t expect the media to remember it?

  • rbdwiggins

    California is a lost cause for Republicans, because…

    “U.S.-born Hispanic households in California already use welfare programs (such as cash welfare, food stamps, and housing assistance) at twice the rate of U.S.-born non-Hispanic households, according to an analysis of the March 2011 Current Population Survey by the Center for Immigration Studies. Welfare use by immigrants is higher still. In 2008–09, the fraction of households using some form of welfare was 82 percent for households headed by an illegal immigrant and 61 percent for households headed by a legal immigrant.” (Source)

    … And they fear that Republicans will take those “entitlements” away. It has nothing to do with fascism, the end result of progressive governing and socioeconomic philosophy.

  • 1stRichard

    Of Sen. Marco Rubio, first a thank you for taking notice and responding on such an important issue. I humbly request that you understand the damage done regarding immigration and I know my past personal experience has taken place in many parts of our great nation. I have written a brief of it here…

    http://www.redstate.com/1strichard/2011/02/27/the-american-dream/

    Although this concerns a small number of misguided immigrants and has taken place a long time ago, the damage done is great, this greatly shapes my opinion and of others. Therein it should be common sense, if you do not know and understand history you are doomed to repeat past mistakes. I cringe and become frightful whenever the left has their hands on anything that has to do with immigration and rightfully so do most conservatives. Please take heed, know and understand history, place blame for past damages deservingly and do not fall prey to the leftist agenda as it may be hidden.

  • Jack_Savage

    Now that McCain is no longer a threat to the Messiah, the media will happily cover for him as he plays the “maverick” again. I will donate the maximum to anyone who challenges Graham in the primary.

  • runner12

    Senator Rubio:

    First of all, thank you for posting a response on Red State. That takes courage and shows that you actually care what Conservatives think and are willing to engage in dialogue on this issue.

    I actually have little to disagree with when it comes to the framework of your plan. My issue is the implementation of it. I simply do not trust the WH or Congress to enforce the border security component, deport the criminals, or deny Federal benefits to those on a non-immigrant work visa. They will find some way to destroy your plan as they have everything else. This is my main objection to the plan,

    I have some additional questions such as:
    Will those who choose the non-immigrant work visa obtain the right to vote? Because they should not. That would be unfair to those waiting in line to be full US citizens.

    How do we determine when the border is secure? What are the prerequisites that must be met in order to declare it secure? How can we trust an administration who will not enforce the border now to follow through after this plan is passed?

    Lastly, what are we going to do to modernize our legal immigration system? The bureaucracy there is absurd.

    EE has some valid points, as do you. Thank you for taking the time to participate in this debate.

  • PaladinLostHour

    I don’t believe Senator Rubio achieved what he set out to do.

    Clearly, this was an attempt to reinforce his conservative bona fides and provide a measured argument for his position. Instead, he has employed rhetorical elisons, misdirection, and unfortunately, outright misstatements to advance his end. The comparisons of his strategy here to that of President Obama’s are unfair – the President lives his entire political life by that triad, Rubio has only descended to that level on this issue – but they will be made. Some examples:

    Rhetorical elisons: You will search Senator Rubio’s post in vain, should you attempt to find the word “illegal” or “illegal alien”. Instead we have ” human beings living in the United States without the proper immigration documents” or “those who are here now without documents”.

    Senator – this is unacceptable. These aren’t folks who were given the wrong forms at the DMV, or who misplaced their papers in a move. These are *aliens*, living here *illegally*. Your buy-in to the Orwellian language project of the left is damning to your case (you can’t fix a problem by misidentifying it) and frankly, damages you. It is the Steve Jobs/Obama conceit writ small; the idea that with charm and a smile of sufficient wattage, you can sell the sizzle, and hide the fact that the steak is, in reality, pink slime.

    Misdirection: Rubio states: “The problem is that, in a free market, the cost of production is always passed on to the consumer….The same is true for labor costs. There is a price point at which our farmers simply won’t do business because they will not be able to offer products at an affordable price.”

    The Senator ignores the great leveler of similar issues throughout the 20th century – technological innovation. Several studies have found that agricultural mechanization stalled around 1980 in the United States, due to 2 factors – an anti-mechanization policy pursued by the federal government, and the large population of illegal immigrants willing to do the work at a lower capital cost. It is impossible to consider the advances in robotics and microprocessors in the last 33 years, the rush that would occur to fill the mechanization space by ADM and others, should the illegal farmworker population shrink, and read Senator Rubio’s histrionic about ‘farmers forced out of business’ as serious.

    Finally, and most seriously, outright misstatements: Senator Rubio claims thus: “For example, our technology sector creates roughly 120,000 computer
    engineering jobs a year, but our universities only graduate about 40,000
    students a year in that field. The long term answer, of course, is to
    get more American students to graduate in this field. But the immediate
    problem is that, in the absence of an immigration system where these
    workers can be brought here, these jobs are sent overseas to them.”

    I work in this sector, and this is a baldfaced untruth. The reason those jobs are being sent overseas has nothing to do with STEM graduation rates. There are tens of thousands of qualified American software engineers that are unemployed, and Senator, they are going to stay unemployed – because the cost case dictates it be so. That reality has nothing to do with immigration to the US – workers brought here would be paid the prevailing American wage, and provide no net benefit. It has everything to do with the reality that I can pay a senior software engineer based in Hyderabad @ $45K in US dollars, to do a job that would cost my firm $135K in total comp (salary + benefits) here.

    In short, there’s nothing of substance here; just, in the words of another conservative phenom who early promise faded, another attempt ‘to put lipstick on a pig’.

  • http://www.truenorthradio.com/ rob777

    Thank You Senator Rubio,

    There is a security issue that has not been mentioned. Besides the border ssue is the fact that we have in excess of 10 million people here in the country that we have no way of keeping track of. I have heard that members of Hezbollah have crossed the boarder pretending to be Mexicans. We really need to get a better idea of how much of a security risk these illegal alliens pose. This concerns me a lot more than them taking jobs at lower wages. I do not favor ammnesty, but our court system uses a concept of immunity from prosecution for those who cooperate in apprehending bigger fish. If we can achieve better border security AND get a better idea of who is already here, it would be a boon for national security. The smaller the illegal population is, the harder it will be for those who pose a security risk to hide within it.

  • sharkey

    I’m sorry but Marco Rubio’s patriotism is now called into question over his support for amnesty for illegal immigrants. People who cross into the United States illegally are federal criminals who deserve to be punished not rewarded. Granting amnesty to upwards of 20 million illegal immigrants will hold grave consequences not only for the Republican Party but also for America herself in my opinion. Roughly 50% of illegal immigrants are already receiving monetary and other assistance from the federal government and thus they are contributing to an already enormous debt crisis that keeps accumulating at breakneck speed under the Barack Obama administration. Which will likely worsen if upwards of 20 million illegal immigrants are suddenly granted amnesty. How so? Millions more would likely become dependent on the federal government for subsistence and millions would simply refuse to assimilate into American culture and way of life. America will eventually end up becoming an extension of Latin America and the United States will continue to grow more polarized and disconnected as a result in my humble opinion.

    Look what’s happening in the U.K? Only instead of illegal immigrants from Latin America they are plagued by Muslim extremists who cling to shariah law and they refuse to assimilate into the British culture and way of life. It is a cultural nightmare in the making and so far the British government continues to kowtow to their every whim and wish it seems. As a result, the decline of the British empire is happening right before our very eyes. Politicians in America should take heed.

    Federal criminals i.e. illegal immigrants are “draining” the monetary system and as a result are ripping-off the American taxpayer. United States citizens are being harmed by millions of illegal immigrants who are aiding in the bankruptcy of the nation and many of them end up committing horrendous crimes once they get here. They also send most of the money they make in the United States back to Mexico or wherever else they come from. Many of them turn to a life of crime and gang activity and end up killing innocent American citizens and robbing the country blind. And now out of the blue Marco Rubio wants to reward their criminal behavior by granting them amnesty and citizenship?? It doesn’t make sense. Pandering to federal criminals is a no win situation for Republicans and for the American people in general in my opinion.

    Marco Rubio is probably looking out for his own self interest. He’s a career politician who wants to hang on to his job and he thinks that by granting 20 million illegal immigrants amnesty many of them will turn around and vote for Republicans, including himself.

    But the reality is most illegal immigrants want the Party of BIG GOVERNMENT and that of course is the Democrat Party. Limited government, individualism, fiscal restraint, personal responsibility and other desirable attributes aren’t a part of criminals vocabulary, and therefore, why it is most illegal immigrants will keep voting for Democrats once they receive amnesty. God forbid. But that’s just the way the ball has bounced over the years. They’re criminals for entering the country illegally and most of them like the idea of supporting candidates who personify that criminal behavior in my opinion. It is senseless to pander to illegal immigrants because they will likely turn around and bite the Republican Party in the backside and it will also result in a multicultural nightmare after millions of those same illegal immigrants refuse to assimilate into American culture even though they are granted amnesty.

    Democrats promise the world and are known for rewarding criminal activity. But in the end it is the American people who are getting screwed. And now Marco Rubio has placed it upon himself to thrust himself into this arena. Thereby sacrificing American citizen’s security and well being… in order to ‘reward’ criminals who have entered the United States illegally. What a guy.

    No wonder America is on the ropes! Politicians can’t see the forest for the trees and are essentially abdicating America’s sovereignty over to criminals who end up benefiting from our politicians disastrous policies! If this keeps up America will become an extension of Latin America and Spanish will become the official language of the United States! Which will, by then, have become the United States of Latin America! And revolutionary Latino groups such as La Raza will have gotten their wish fulfilled! Latino groups such as La Raza not only want amnesty for all illegals, they also want to eventually “overthrow” the U.S. government and our Republic. Granting amnesty to 20 million illegal immigrants will further accelerate that process in my humble opinion.

    Unless the border is 100% secure this latest attempt by Republicans will simply compound the immigration problem going forward. Mitt Romney had the right idea. Put in place a work verification system and crack down on businesses that refuse to comply. If illegals can’t find work they’ll pack up their bags and head south and 95% of the problem will have been solved. If their families are uprooted it will be the result of their own criminal endeavors. Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million illegals way back in 1986 on condition the southern border be secured. Not only did that not happen but millions of people south of the border saw that criminal behavior was being rewarded by politicians in America, and consequently, they took advantage of the situation and hundreds of thousands of them continue to cross into the United States illegally each and every year.

    Marco Rubio should be reprimanded for advocating the needs of federal criminals above the needs of ‘legal immigrants’ and especially American citizens. Do politicians in Washington D.C. have no shame? Can’t they see what they’re doing? Pandering to criminals means the United States is no longer a nation governed by the rule of law! When the ‘rule of law’ is bypassed the decline of America will follow suit shortly thereafter! Hello!! I respect Marco Rubio as a person and love him as a brother in Christ. But the illegal immigration problem(s) can and must be solved without granting amnesty to federal criminals who break the law by trampling our borders.

    Secure the border and then implement Mitt Romney’s plan of an e-verify system, which will encourage self deportation, and once the problem basically resolves itself then fix the ‘legal’ immigration system that is now in place. Republicans should then work earnestly on finding ways to win the hearts of Latinos without sacrificing the safety and security of America in the process. If Latinos can’t be persuaded then thank GOD we didn’t grant 20 million illegal immigrants amnesty, because it would have been 20 million additional votes for the socialist Democrat Party which is currently bankrupting the country, and thereby, 20 million votes that the United States of America simply can’t afford.

    America is a land of opportunity and a land of compassion. ‘Legal’ immigration has made America what it is today i.e. the greatest nation on God’s green Earth. But America is also a land governed by the rule of law. Laws are enacted for the safety and well being of the citizenry. The problem(s) that illegal immigration have caused over the last fifty years won’t suddenly disappear if 20 million illegals are suddenly given amnesty. It will perpetuate the problem(s) because the Feds will likely refuse to secure the border and the next generation of illegals will continue trampling America’s borders to receive the same kind of ‘red carpet’ treatment that their illegal compadres before them received.

    Politicians apparently don’t have the resolve or the know how to solve the illegal immigration problem(s) judiciously or to the benefit of the American citizenry. Those who “break the law” by trampling our borders are not the friends of America but simply enamored by their own self interest(s). And they will further deteriorate morality within a given society because of their propensity for criminal behavior and their utter contempt for America’s laws, and indeed, their stubborn refusal to “assimilate” into American culture. Solve the problem, don’t compound the problem. Is that too much to ask?

  • Hafeed

    My Grandparents immigrated during the early part of that period. Hence economic growth. All kidding aside, we need to prepare the ground, inequality will be very high over the next few decades, and this needs to be seen as a healthy (for reasons I imagine are clear to this audience). Given the lawlessness of the Presidency, and the constant tomfoolery in Congressional deal-making, a heavy dose of doubt is in order. Ultimately, more open borders, especially pertaining to the highly skilled can be a huge economic boon. This is contingent on the economic dynamism of free enterprise, especially for the poorest to rise. Reforms for those problems should be attached to the package, limiting entitlements to the truly indigent, easing regulations on capital flows, and slicing the red tape that bundles up businesses of all sizes.

  • checkmate2012

    Frank_Katz, you make great points that I hope will be read. I’ll take the moral issue one step further, that We the People should be foremost in this debate, not bending or accomodating for 5% of the population that are here illegally. Why aren’t we at the forefront of a solution? The goal of accomodating 11M illegals does not fit the constricts of our soverign nation or fall within the realm of the Constitution and the Rule of Law, respectfully to Senator Rubio and his good intentions as I posted earlier.

  • westcoastpatriette

    Although I commented on this diary once today, I wanted to return to emphasize one more point with the hope that Sen. Rubio will read it.

    I really want to believe in you and had high hopes that you would be an effective voice for conservatives but I really feel you are missing some essentials elements of conservatism with respect to your position on the illegal immigration problem

    The title of your diary suggests that you believe your plans to deal with illegal aliens are conservative and yet you seem to disregard the moral aspects of the problem. Traditionally, conservatives have described their platform or philosophy as a three legged stool or three categories that embody what we believe in. These three legs are comprised of social, fiscal and defense.

    With respect to illegal immigration, one could argue that the problem impacts all three legs of the stool but particularly, it impacts the social aspect in profound ways that you are neglecting to acknowledge or address and I find that very troubling.

    This nation was founded with the rule of law as a core principle. Indeed, we proudly boast in the fact that no one in this nation is above the rule of law. But somehow, Sen. Rubio, you have bought into the liberal dogma by viewing illegal immigrants as victims rather than perpetrators. You are even using the watered down lingo used by the left referring to them as “undocumented” rather than “illegal.” I am wondering how you consider that a conservative position and why you overlook this very critical element of the problem.

    Illegal aliens fundamentally disrespect and disregard the rule of law. They break our laws to come here and continue breaking them to stay here. And many commit serious felonies to maintain their presence here such as stealing SSN’s and driving without licenses. It is a mystery to me that the left and now you, refuse to recognize this and stubbornly insist that we must downplay and completely overlook these serious offenses. Why is that? There is no rational justification for it yet we are expected for some reason to extend this unwarranted sympathy and allow illegal aliens to be exceptions to the rule of law.

    This is wrong. And for you to insist it is the right thing to do is not conservative. Conservatives would never encourage or promote law-breaking as a core principle and I fail to see why we should make an exception for aliens from Mexico or any other country for that matter. In my opinion, you are violating one of our core principles by undermining the rule of law and weakening our nation’s respect for the same when you discuss this problem as if the aliens were the victims. This is one of the main reasons you are receiving so much push back. It is fundamentally wrong to place illegal aliens above the rule of law and it is just as wrong to demand that Americans accept them and make an exception for them. The problems they are causing are enormous and the taxpayers are burdened with the cost on many levels. Yet, we are expected to overlook all of these things and it just does not compute.

    I think you need to rethink what you are doing and why. Many are beginning to doubt your conservative principles now that you are pushing for amnesty and I am afraid if you don’t back down you are going to do irreparable damage to your reputation and cause deeper rifts in the Republican Party. To many of us, you are playing in the liberals play box and we don’t think it is the least bit amusing, ingenious or respectful.

    I hope you will seriously take into consideration what I have written as I know I speak for many.

  • checkmate2012

    Senator Rubio:
    .
    We are so glad you came here to make your case here on RS. You have much to contemplate if you read the responses to your post, most of which don’t support any plan for kowtowing to the 11M versus the 315M citizens. I do think you’re a patriot and are trying to address the issue head-on, knowing the president campaigned and successfully separated Americans on this issue to his gain and will continue to push the issue.
    .
    My only wish is that you and all the other lawmakers take this slowly, with ever increasing proof that enforcement mechanisms are in-place and proven with objective outsider data, before passing new laws. The laws are already on the books but aren’t being enforced.
    .
    If Congress and the other two branches prove to us that the existing laws will be enforced over say the next four years, then all lawmakers will have more crediblity issuing new laws for the 11M illegals here in OUR country.
    .
    So far I don’t see the will to enforce the existing laws and therefore we doubt this time will be different, regardless of your sincere efforts. Let’s be clear on the goals of any legislation and keep in mind, We the People, will have to live with the consequences, be they good intentioned or not.
    .
    Demand two concessiosn from the Left, entitlement reform and a balanced budget, before entering into negotiations for a plan for the 11M illegals, who really are inconsequential in most of our lives but will cost us dearly regardless of the “new” plan. Use this debate as leverage that counts towards the citizens.

    http://www.redstate.com/checkmate2012/2013/01/29/the-5-have-spoken-and-the-315-million-citizens-are-irrelevant/

  • davesinsanantonio

    Or, they will ignore whatever the commission reports, as they have so many other commissions in the past. They lie, they cheat, and they are proud of it. So, why should we ever trust them???!!!

    The only commission we should accept is one with only conservatives as members. That will take care of the rubberstamp worries. I will not accept any bi-partisan commission, because they are always more interested in getting an agreement than they are in anything else.

    Border security is paramount!!! We must get that first. Then, If real conservatives say the border is now secure I will believe it, and then we can pressure the Dims to uphold it. And once we have all that, and can be assured that (almost) no further illegals will be able to invade our country, then we can address those other important issues. We simply cannot trust that the Dims, especially the current president who has gone to war with Arizona over enforcing current laws, to actually enforce any new laws until he starts enforcing all the current ones! Fix that first, and most of the rest of the issues will be easier. Don’t fix that first, and any law we pass is simply so much worthless paper!!!!! And, the other issues will just continue, or get even worse. We must start with border security. Fix that before looking for some “comprehensive” solution. There should be no acceptance of any “comprehensive” solution until the border is actually, and verifably, secure. We just cannot trust the Dims or the spineless weasels in the Republican Party, or the “across the aisle” glad-handers to keep their word. So, if you want us to support any “comprehensive” immigration reform get busy and pass a bill that will actually secure all our borders, and show a track record of Dimocrap enforcement, and then we can talk. Not until!!!!

  • rickbillies

    First and foremost, thank you Senator Rubio for your effort. I agree that no plan is perfect, after all we live in the real world. I think that you deserve our continuing support for your efforts. This is an issue that needs to be resolved for the benefit of all involved. Isn’t it time that we recognize the beacon that America is for immigrants. For God’s sake, many of these people have risked their lives to stand on free soil. They have given up everything that they know and love to come to a strange country. Do your best Senator.

  • davesinsanantonio

    Senator,
    I appreciate the work you have already done, and your efforts to come here and explain your principles and proposals. But, the track record of the Democrats on this issue is such that we cannot trust their word on anything related to immigration. The current president has gone to war with Arizona for trying to enforce current laws, which he refuses to enforce. So, before we can even look at a new immigration or reform law, we must get secure borders, verifiable by real conservatives. I know you are working with Senator McCain, but the rest of us do not trust him. We want real conservatives, not a bi-partisan commission, to verify the border is secure, and that such security is being enforced before we will accept any “reform” bill. If they don’t enforce border security, no matter what else your bill says, it is only worthless paper! So, I propose you separate that part of your bill and get it passed and enforced before you work on the rest of it. The rest of it seems reasonably okay, but until we can get Democrats to enforce border security we have nothing, and we will be re-hashing this whole mess again in a few years, but with millions of additional illegal aliens in our country.

    Fix the border security first, or we simply cannot support anything else, because the Dems have proven to not be trustworthy on the issue of border security.

  • bentonbain

    We do not need 12-30 million more Democrat voters on the government dole.
    As to the so called 80,000 computer openings that are not filled, how many of these armed by Holder & Obama drug dealers, mules, murders, rapists, pedophile, and diseased have a MS or PhD in computer science?

  • davesinsanantonio

    Agreed!!! If you look at the history of immigration in the United States, it was usually individuals or core family. In fact, many came here to escape their families! The history of Italian immigration, as an example, had many young men come here, earn enough to go back and marry, and then return here with their new bride. It was common for many families to send an older son here who would work and send money back for a brother or sister to come. They they would both work until they could send for another sibling. Once all the children were here they would send for the parents. The grand parents seldom came. And aunts and uncles, or cousins, might get some cultural help, or assistance on finding a job or housing, but they were not the primary concern of the core family. And, they shouldn’t be! Nor, should they be a main concern of our government when issuing visas!!!

  • davesinsanantonio

    That is why I think we should start with a separate border security law and see a history of enforcement before we go any further with the rest of it. If we cannot secure our borders the rest is just so much swamp gas.

  • davesinsanantonio

    Senator,

    Another question just came to mind. Who are your allies in the House? Are they true conservatives? How about governors? If all your allies are true conservatives I think you will get more support here and elsewhere. We know this is going to be a hard issue all around. But, if your supporters are real conservatives, and your proposals are logical, I think we can sell it to the rest of the country. But, given the history of broken promises on this issue, and so many others, you will not succeed without us. So, please pick your allies carefully.

  • pcisbs

    Thank you Senator Rubio,

    A few details of the
    plan cannot work, without other measures taking place. For example, the “Learn English”
    requirement is laughable. Does anyone believe that every former illegal alien
    granted legal worker status will become proficient in the English language as
    required by the new law? Will the foreign nationals who refuse to learn English
    be deported and if so, by what mechanism? To think that this is plausible
    requires a complete suspension of reality. Don’t get me wrong, I believe that
    assimilation is imperative for the nation, just as it is for any immigrant
    (legal or illegal) who aspires to pursue the American Dream. However, history
    is unequivocal: over the last 50 years, one of the most powerful tools in the
    Left’s arsenal has been the promulgation of social policies which are
    antithetical to assimilation. Consequently this strategy is something they will
    never surrender, for the Left’s entire existence depends on separating,
    classifying and pitting groups against one another to create victims. This
    reality is clear by the fact that the United States is the only industrialized
    nation on the planet (possibly the only nation period) without at least one
    National Language. The Democrats are the ones who have always blocked any
    attempt to establish English as our national language, and they can care less
    that their efforts have cost the economy and the American Citizen Billions of
    dollars. The point is that the “Learn English” requirement cannot work as
    it is described. The optimum way to give this requirement teeth would be to
    make English our official language; however since this is next to
    impossible at this time, the only alternative is to amend the bill
    to include an
    order to end all tax dollar funding of Federal Documents printed in languages
    other than English. Given our nation’s dire fiscal condition, this
    shouldn’t be a hard sell; for nowhere else in the world does a federal
    government force it’s citizenry to absorb the cost of providing all Federal and
    legal documentation in any language which is requested. On a side note, the
    fact that States granting drivers licenses to Illegal aliens, allow the illegal
    alien to take the license exam in languages other than English – when all of
    our road signs are written in English- is an obnoxious affront to the taxpaying
    American Citizen.

  • davesinsanantonio

    Sure they can, they just start yelling, “Racist!!!”.

  • dudette

    thanks for commenting Senator. Heard you on Laura Ingraham too. I just think that the Dems have only a political agenda the rest is icing on the cake and if they can drag Pubbies as cover for their vote-getting entitlement-building strategy so much the better. I left CA, grew up there when it was a Republican stronghold; when i left the chief of police instructed the officers not to take fake greencards away from those arrested, not to enforce many of the laws on the books. We have an enforcement problem. I see no problem with a path to a GREEN CARD if that is what it is and I see no problem with immigration if benefits and voting arent part of the package and that has to be rock solid with border security. But the GOP is so lame and timid it will allow itself to be outgamed by a thoroughly unscrupulous arrogant opposition who cares not a penny for this country or its real citizens. I am sick of the issue and Pres. Blow-hole’s campaigning on our dime for every issue harmful to our republic.

  • politicalqrm

    Senator Rubio:

    Thanks for your response. Now mine. You say that our legal immigration system doesn’t work. Well, then, that should be the first thing that we fix. Before anything else. I have a friend from Great Britain who is educated, has worked her whole time here, never asked for a handout, yet the immigration procedure that she has to maneuver is full of so many hoops that she is almost at the point of giving up. She came to this country because here: She can be whatever she wants. So for her, the American dream still holds.

    Look, my grandparents came here from Italy: LEGALLY. They had to cross an ocean, they were poor, yet they found a way to do it so they could live the way they want. They were all proud American citizens. My one grandfather fought in WWI, came back to America, received his citizenship and revered this country. He had an American flag that he raised on the pole every morning and took it down each evening. When his son fought in WWII, he was so proud. That love of country was passed down to his descendants. It was the same with my other grandparents. They appreciated what this country was. Oh, they ALL went to an English class to learn their new language. And these people were not geniuses; they were, as their immigration cards said: farm laborers. We kept our traditions at home, yet out in public, they wanted to be American.

    I’m sorry, but if you’re here illegally, and I don’t care what country you’re from…As a matter of fact, my family tipped off the authorities in the ’60′s to a person who was here illegally from Italy.. If you’re here illegally, you should be deported. It’s not my fault that their countries are not the land of liberty. Maybe they should have worked on that, first. And to be completely truthful, I think the only country that we should willingly accept immigrants from is Cuba. That has been labeled a totalitarian government and they are indeed escaping. Everywhere else, tough.

    My payroll taxes have just gone up. My health insurance rates have skyrocketed, with less coverage. I have read so many articles on illegal immigrants receiving transplants, complete healthcare at the expense of American citizens.. With sequestration coming up, my husband is in danger of losing his job, since he is a defense contractor. How about worrying about all the defense cuts that are going to put this country in even more jeopardy, and I know how bad it can get since I used to work for DOD, instead of worrying about people that don’t give a damn about this country except to take whatever they can get.

    Why are you presenting these illegals with something that so many people who are legally here have to jump through hoops to obtain?

    Before you label me a xenophobe, let me tell you about myself. I was raised in an Italian tradition household; very European, which has put me at odds a few times with Americans that have been here for generations. I therefore am very comfortable with other cultures. I speak 3 languages other than English: Italian, Russian and Spanish.

    I’m sorry, Senator, you are way off on base with this one. Your job as a US Senator is to protect and defend the Constitution, not to pander to those who don’t give a damn about it.

    This country is losing everything that our founders worked so hard to achieve and you’re worried about this? Sorry, Senator, your priorities are heading in the wrong direction. I want people in the government who are there to represent America, its legal citizens , its founding principles and laws…Not a illegal group who have no right to be here.

    I was inspired by your speech at the GOP convention. This latest effort, however, Senator, proves that you’re more interested in politicking than leading.

  • citizenoftheworld

    Senator Rubio,
    I am an immigrant myself, not yet a citizen. I was not allowed to vote in the midterms or in the recent presidential elections. I see the importance for your plan to give specific details regarding the prohibition to vote for those who are only in the “process” of becoming citizens. No special weavers/pardons given from the bottom of the heart, for as long as it takes.

  • pitman44

    I respect and admire Senator Rubio a great deal. However I have just one question.

    Senator Rubio writes “First, those who have violated our immigration laws must come forward and undergo a background check.” Just what makes them “come forward and undergo a background check”?

  • fltactical

    There are many legitimate objections to the idea that allowing illegal immigrants to stay is morally objectionable. The points regarding deflating the lower wage earners is also on the money. But the first step in getting a problem under control is to stop digging the hole you are in. The realities are that 11 million are here. Our liberal friends are using them as a club to take total power. There is NO WAY we can enforce borders and card check laws without liberal votes. If we continue down this path, this immigration club will beat us to death and we will accomplish nothing. At least, if written properly, this will stop the flood gates and give us back controlled immigration that eliminates familial immigration and gives us back the needed high tech, high educated immigrants.

    Our struggles to overcome ignorant voters will take decades. We have to start by stopping the flow of low wage earners and begin the task of reinstating conservative logical common sense values to educated voters.

  • richtfan

    Mr. Rubio,

    I would vote for you as president in a heartbeat. I fail, though, to see how this plan upholds the rule of law in our constitutional republic. we simply cannot allow this amnesty to occur. how can you justify this to someone who’s already been in line for citizenship for over a decade? the only way i’d be in favor of this or any other amnesty plan is if two things happened—first, no voting rights would be extended to any person staying here due to the plan. second, no federal or state benefits OF ANY KIND would be extended to these people for 25 years. these two things, to me, are fair if we’re going to allow to stay here contrary to our laws. that way they cannot be used by the left as political pawns. this is the only way it would work. that way we would prove, once and for all, that the left only wants these people for their votes and nothing else.

  • commonsenseobserver

    I wouldn’t.

  • commonsenseobserver

    “NO WAY we can enforce borders and card check laws without liberal votes”

    Number one, card check reminds me of the Employee Free Choice Act.
    Number two, we may need liberal votes, but we cannot trust liberal hands.

  • commonsenseobserver

    Well, in theory, Senator Rubio would basically have self-deportation for those who refuse to come forward. Only problem is:

    1) The Obama administration won’t enforce self-deportation, and Rubio refuses to admit that.
    2) Self-deportation is, well, self-deportation, and Rubio refuses to admit that.
    3) If self-deportation doesn’t work, we’re effectively stuck with the status quo, there’s no way to shut the thing down, everyone will be in limbo- and Rubio refuses to admit that.

  • General_Confusion

    Because 11 million new Democrat voters is a plan?

    Who do you think may be doing more damage to the chances of GOP victory going forward?

    P.S. I voted for Romney.

  • funwithknives

    Senator Rubio coming here and explaining in some detail is to be commended, and in this vein, I do so here and now. Big Kudos to ya’ .
    But the Million Dollar Question here is, how can we possibly believe that The Senate Majority that has not obeyed the written law in 4 years as regards A Budget is going to not play endless games with this numerously-paged bill ??
    You just know it’s going to happen, just as sure as Hillary falls down on command, and Barry seems to have 5 sides to any issue.[that he then disregards most of...]
    Your heart and the Group of Eight’s hearts seem to be in the right places here.
    But 53 -odd Signed-up Progressives in your chamber, will simply do whatever
    “Harry Say” and that, Sir, is a proven fact.

  • milton6994

    I appreciate Senator Rubio’s response. But, all this debate has been repeated over and over and over countless times. The Democrats will feign cooperation then amend to get what they want. We just don’t have enough true Conservatives in the Senate to hold their feet to the fire.

    Look, if I’m not mistaken, the complete physical border fence has long been approved, but only limited sections have been funded and built.

    JUST BUILD THE DANG FENCE! Then we can talk about the other stuff. OK?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006

  • funwithknives

    ^^^^ What this person said, times google-plex, if you please.^^^^

  • milton6994

    Hey, you might want to give Limbaugh his credit for that idea.

  • richardsaunders1

    I used to have a lot of respect for Marco Rubio and he was my first choice as a presidential candidate, but since he lied in his defense of his immigration plan, he has shown to me that he is no different than any liberal, despite his conservative credentials.

    First, he says because the Democratic Party and the liberal media has the tactic of calling conservatives racists and getting away with it because we conservatives believe in the rule of law and the rights of a country not be violated by millions of foreign criminals who spit on our sovereignty,we should cave.

    So what is Marco Rubio going to do when the Democratic Party and liberal media is going to attack him the next time for being a bigot just for having conservative principles? Is he going to cave again?

    The race card is the most evil card in the book and to cave to it is a sign of weakness.

    Marco Rubio makes multiple “economic” arguments based in lies and logical fallacy that make me just dumbfounded.

    1. Rubio lie #1:

    The United States doesn’t have a program for agricultural workers.

    Answer: The United States already has a visa program to import agricultural workers.

    I live in an area of California that is based in agriculture and is majority Latino. Do you know what the unemployment rate is? Almost 30%.

    I challenge every conservative here to go look up the unemployment rates of agricultural communities in California, Florida, New Mexico, Texas, etc, and the vast majority of them have double digit unemployment and high rates of welfare state penetration,

    Is Marco Rubio going to be happy when we import enough workers that these communities have 50% unemployment?

    By the way, how is it that every country in the world outside of the United States can grow its own food without major food inflation and without illegals?

    Rubio Lie #2:

    We don’t have enough workers for high tech.

    Answer: The United States is a country of 310 people, it is statistically impossible for us not to have enough workers for high tech.

    How is it that China and India are not importing workers? How come Brazil is not importing workers.

    How is it that most countries in this world function perfectly fine without millions of new immigrants every year and don’t suffer from either food or labor shortage or massive inflation?

    Maybe the question should be is how come the United States has public colleges and universities that are offering majors in complete nonsense while sectors of our economy are going without.

    I will make a deal with Rubio. If he offers current federal higher education grants that are currently in place exclusively to science, engineering, and computer science majors, I will support CIR. But Senator Rubio will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to create home grown supply for high tech, engineering, etc.

    Lastly, Marco Rubio has said nothing about what are we going to do with illegals who won’t qualify for provisional visas.

    Is he going to put tough language in the bill for unconditional deportment if these illegals don’t comply with the law?

    Is Marco Rubio going to put language in the bill that will give state-level law enforcement the ability to police their own state borders for illegals when the feds refuse to do their job again?

    Is Marco Rubio going to put language in the bill that will force federal level and state level politicians and bureaucrats to enforce the law this time instead of ignoring it when it suits them?

    Right now, Barack Obama and the liberal states refuse to enforce the law.

    What makes Marco Rubio think once illegals get their amnesty, that the feds and liberals are just not going to ignore the law again?

  • commonsenseobserver

    Sen. Rubio has not just signed up to a plan, he has also opened a door for the Republican Party. A door into Mordor.

  • mindyr

    I’m sorry but this Rubio is lying. He is not stating facts. I would not trust this man to walk my dog. I suggest that you all research what he stated , don’t just fall for it.

  • edniceville

    Senator, thank you for joining our forum. As an ardent supporter of you in your efforts to win the nomination and election (mostly under the radar with my REALTOR(r) colleagues) here in NW Florida, I have been disappointed of late with your comments and actions on immigration. They seemed to have conflicted with your campaign rhetoric. As to your post, I believe there is some merit to much of it, but, if we were to enforce laws already on the books (Title 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1621), enact and enforce mandatory E-Verify, control the H-2 A and B visa programs better, much of the problem would be taken care of. You have not been the friend to the NumbersUSA crowd that you purported to be in your campaign, and your grade there shows it. If you are really serious about fixing the problem, Roy Beck, Rosemary Jenks, and Peter Robbio would be your new best friends! Back to your post…You mentioned Erick’s point about jobs Americans won’t do at the current wage. Well, actually they are jobs Americans (or anyone, really) won’t do as long as unemployment benefits and other entitlements are available to them and NEVER run out! There is no incentive to return to work. There is no longer a “stigma” to being on unemployment or “welfare”. We give out EBT cards instead of the paper food stamps, it is easy for people to purchase items that are not legal under the program simply by having a willing vendor. People are making more on the various entitlements than they were when they worked! Heck, this is the “fast track” to the ‘Nanny State’, if I ever saw it. With 20 million unemployed/underemployed in this nation there should be ZERO foreign worker importation instead of the 1 million a year we are currently bringing in! I agree with you that the system is broken, but, the system needs a “spigot” where it can be slowed or stopped in times of high unemployment. There are engineers, IT professionals, etc. working in fast food restaurants and retail establishments and on “welfare” this very minute! Yet, we continue to import them from overseas! There is something SERIOUSLY WRONG with this picture! I am one of your constituents and you can tell where I live by my “posting name”. I would be happy to discuss this with you at your convenience.

  • edweirdness

    Whether Senator Rubio’s perspective is colored by his Republican partisan leadership, or simply the desire to have a solution, any solution, other than enforcement is the subject of speculation. Clearly, he fails to recognize the fundamental flaw in all proposed “comprehensive reform plans” up to this point. America is far more generous than any other nation in our willingness to accept 1 million legal immigrants annually. Overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, crumbling infrastructure, declining resources and opportunities, vanishing farm land and green space, lack of affordable housing, overcrowded schools, hospitals and jails, water and energy shortages, depressed wages, increased tax burdens, the balkanization of our communities, the marginalization of American workers, students, taxpayers and voters, the overall decline in quality of life, are all the result of unconstrained immigration and lax enforcement policies. Like it or not folks, too many people competing for the same limited resources is NOT, and NEVER WILL BE sane, sustainable social, economic or environmental policy!

    There are no problems confronting America’s citizens that would not immediately and measurably improve as a result of securing our borders and enforcing our immigration laws internally! Nothing in any of the proposed “comprehensive reforms” thus far would address any of the issues that threaten to subsume our economy and our social and cultural infrastructure.

    Virtually every industrialized nation, China, Mexico, Great Britain, the Europen Union, Asia, the Middle East, have all adopted zero tolerance policies for dealing with illegal aliens entering or operating within their countries. Further, these same nations have likewise put in place policies aimed at curtailing legal immigration, limiting such to only that which is prudent, demonstrably necessary, readily assimilated, and above all else, limited to only that which would not compete for jobs and resources against the native populations. It’s dangerously misguided to suggest that the United States not do likewise, particularly since doing so is the result of purely self serving political outreach.

  • blh557

    I think what some don’t seem to understand is this: WE, meaning conservatives, are LOSING this subject badly. Like it or not, we MUST enjoin in this debate with a winning strategy or our ability to remain relevant or cogent in the present political environment is doomed. Again; we have LOST the argument and must take a bold approach to become relevant, whether we like it or not. If we continue to ignore the problem, which will not result in it going away, we AND the people of this country will lose.

    In Texas, even with our thriving economy and growing budget surpluses, Democrats are WINNING state rep and Senate elections by vowing to “fight Governor Perry”. The reason? Because he’s not a Democrat and he doesn’t want to simply increase spending since we have a surplus… as opposed to spending everything so we’ll never HAVE a surplus. The message is being telegraphed to Hispanics, primarily, and Hispanics, even in Texas, are easily convinced that the Dems are on their side. After all, it’s the Dems who want to make their lives “easier”.

    I applaud Senator Rubio for firing the first salvo in a fight that may get very ugly. But the truth is, WE must be the ones with the voice that rings true BEFORE the libs have a chance to spin their spin on the unsuspecting and low-information voters.

    If some of our other legislators had intelligently attacked the Second Amendment debate early on we might not be behind in that fight.

  • naner

    Mr. Rubio, I sure hope you read these comments. I see a MAJOR ommision in any immigration plan. It is the EDUCATION of immigrant children. MOST IMMIGRANT CHILDREN ARE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT ARE FAILURES AND ONLY PUTS THESE KIDS IN THE PATH OF GANG MEMBERSHIP, JUST LIKE MOST INNER CITY SCHOOLS. Here is a chance for the GOP to win on immigration: let the children of immigrants have vouchers to go to any public or private school they want! That goes for American kids as well…..Houston is rife with illegal kids in the worst of the worst schools in the nation, right here in my town…..I have a friend that teaches these kids and she says those kids have attitudes that are not only ungrateful, they don’t even know what America is all about. It makes her sick and it is hard to get thru to them, because most of them are uneducated because they have been passed on along just like most American Urban kids in BAD schools……THIS IS A WINNING ISSUE FOR THE GOP BECAUSE EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY THE MOST LOYAL OBAMA SUPPORTER IN CHICAGO OR D.C. WANT THE OPTION TO ATTACH EDUCATION DOLLARS WITH THEIR KIDS AND SEND THEM TO THE SCHOOL OF THEIR CHOICE……Bobbly Jindal is running a program like this, and it has met road blocks, BUT it is working and Charter Schools now make up about 55% of the old Failing New Orleans school system. Katrina was the best thing to happen to New Orleans Education because they had to start over, and they did in a great way, by giving parents choice!!!

  • edintexas

    Beyond the platitudes – what did you intend to say?

  • naner

    I am soooooo glad that he is out front and center on every talk radio show, that even Mill Romney refused to go on, and television and everywhere. We all must remember HE IS AN Natural born citizen who is also an IMMIGRANT HIMSELF, because his parents went back to Cuba after his birth and then returned to America to then become citizens themselves! Rubio has lived this lack of an immigration policy all his life. WE HAVE TO FIX THIS PROBLEM. I do not think lawbreakers should become citizens UNLESS, they have to wait 20 years before application, they have to have a certificate from an English Speaking and Reading Class, AND they have to have a certificate passing 3 years of Citizenship and American History Classes, as we are the only Representative Republic on the planet. We have to educate the Hispanics AND the Asians about our great country AND we have to prevent those guys from bringing over their bad governmental knowlege to our shores, because they are leaving their countries due to misery perpetrated by their governments, and they don’t know what political system they even have that makes them miserable!!!!!!!

  • mort5f

    Spare me the 140,000 computer jobs. I doubt if there are more than just a few, if any, foreign trained computer applicants that come here illegally. If the degree of expertise of off-shore tech support is any indication, it is preferable that they stay at home. I am reminded of when I was an engineering student, and there was the ‘need’ for an ‘army’ of engineers. Much of that ‘army’ was used as ‘cannon fodder’ to fulfill government contract provisions for staff levels.
    Any discussion of immigration policy should be based on what we, as a country, can logically assimilate each year. Having skills as a qualifier is meaningless. For but rarely can those ‘skills’ be put ot use here. The only qualifications should be enthusiasm to apply oneself, and a desire to be an American citizen, not an ex-pat of another country. We must also be humane, and allow for those who are truly being persecuted in their home countries. Economic persecution is nonsense.
    Guest passes? Sure. But with very restricted time frames, and not allowing ‘families’ to be a factor. Especially while allowing the’ anchor baby’ provision to remain in effect.
    And above all, seriously enforce ALL the existing laws, and deportation en masse is achievable, despite the cries against it.

  • edweirdness

    Why not try comprehensive enforcement? That would be a “significant reform” with long term benefits by establishing that entry into the United States will be only by legal channels. Enforcement would create badly needed jobs. Arguments that the cost of “enforcement” would inflate government spending are political straw men, as a substantial amount of these costs could be offset through “asset forfeiture” (a law enforcement practice commonly used by the federal government and all 50 states for infractions ranging from traffic violation, housing code, all the way up through major criminal acts). Asset forfeiture if utilized against illegal aliens and their employers and enablers would likewise serve as an additional incentive for aliens to enter legally, and for employers to hire only legal American workers and immigrants. More legal workers on the job means more tax revenue.

    Why is it so difficult to accept that a true effort at enforcing our immigration laws and securing our borders has never been effectively pursued? Indeed, unleash America’s entrepreneurial spirit on this issue and partner with the private sector to create solutions to identify, incarcerate, and remove illegal aliens already operating within our communities. This could create the jobs boom that America’s technology companies and our unemployed need.

    It’s hard to argue that most illegals at least have a home country where they can return or be returned to (Mexico’s economy is at present growing faster that the U.S. economy, with some speculating this as a major reason for declining arrests along our southern border). The same unfortunately cannot be said for native born American’s who have no where else to go, and that have few “porous borders” that we can cross and take advantage of other taxpayers largess.

  • edweirdness

    The slippery slope. What happens when dangerously misguided immigration reforms and lax enforcement tip the scales demographically? Will Congress consign native born Americans to a wage slave status to fund their growing need for “racial demography voters” or advance the agenda of an oppressive political elitist minority? Oh wait, those are the the fundamental problems that resulted in our American revolution and that gave birth to our nation. Our founding fathers pledged their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor to end the oppressions of a self serving, elitist minority (the Crown), and establish a country where the will of the people was intended to serve as the guidance in our governance (overwhelmingly America’s citizens prefer enforcement and reductions in overall immigration numbers). It is only since we’ve allowed the power and perks of elected office to require “full time politicians” that these same “full time politicians” now seem to long for the days when an elitist minority could usurp and undermine the will of the people. We now watch as they put in place the schemes and the demography to assure themselves perpetual power at the cost of our social, cultural, economic liberties.

  • edweirdness

    Pragmatically, even if Republicans garner 100% of the Hispanic vote after this “outreach” legislation, they will have lost their core constituency, and ergo, any hope of winning future elections. I fail to see how consigning the only political alternative conservative voters have to “Democrat lite” status can possibly advance the interests of our nation. The longer America’s citizens are forced to suffer under an immigration invasion of historic proportions, the longer the jobs remain elusive, and the competition for opportunities and resources are circumscribed by pandering to a (albeit powerful) demographic minority, the greater the chance that America’s citizens will recognize that standing on our own feet, taking care of our own, working hard to succeed, are meaningless. This is exactly how the nation created the welfare dependent state that burdened our nation and sapped our economy in previous decades.

  • trytryagain

    With all due respect Sen Rubio I can’t see how illegal immigrants who are on the brink of getting socialized heathcare would ever opt for either choice once past the background check. Lets remember these people are here because they get benefits their own country would not or could not give them. They are getting this stuff free or nearly free here now. None of them would choose to go home for 10 years and live in those deplorable circumstances. I doubt you’d find many takers of sure stay here but you get no freebies. What makes you think they’ll abide by our laws?…they don’t now.

  • conserve1

    Amnesty is not a conservative principal no matter how many times you say it.

  • rizkymom

    Thank you for addressing criticism politely and effectively. I agree with most of your logic. What I do not see here is a way to help people who are waiting in line, have followed the current protocols and need an expedited and affordable path. My Father-in-Law came to the US as a resident physician, was made to leave for 2 years before starting a medical practice. He did and came back to have a lucrative and productive career here in the states. He became an involved citizen. My Brother-in-law came here as an architect whose degree was not recognized, so he started an successful home improvement business. I have many friends who came here in the 80′s that were physicians whose medical degrees were not recognized, but they learned the language, some applied for medical residency and US education, some found new careers. Most did not live “on the dole.” We need more of THIS type of immigration and less, “America is a free lunch” society.

    The new legislation should address this. The new legislation should be no more than 20 pages long with NO additional spending or favors to certain demographics. Nothing that is not related to solving this problem effectively should be considered part of the bill. Another 2000+ unreadable document will do more harm than good. The politics of “baksheesh” (arabic for greasing palms) has bankrupted this country morally and financially.

  • wlcjr

    “without the proper immigration documents in a state of de facto amnesty.”

    With respect sir, that is your mistake in logic. Being here illegally is much different than having legal legitimacy. And once you give them legal legitimacy, you have just lost the war. Because then, there is no way avoid the “bidding battle” sure to come, nor the court decisions which will place all citizens as equal no matter how they became citizens.

    I think that any large scale compromise is bound to hurt the GOP and limited govt advocates. By his own words, Obama considers his opposition not acting to “do what is right”, and therefore has little propensity to compromise or collaberate. Any progress should be made through smaller measures where the scope can be controlled.
    Thank you for your time.

  • rightlane1111

    Sadly…you are right!

  • rightlane1111

    Let’s just put duck tape on McCain’s mouth.

  • kenchely

    This compromise was critical in several ways. There was no way that an enforcement-only bill would pass. It wouldn’t get through the Senate–it wouldn’t even get to the floor of the Senate, given Harry Reid’s dictatorial approach that has made him Speaker of the Senate. This has an enforcement provision.
    You’re not going to round up twelve million illegal immigrants. But in the absence of a route to legalization and eventual citizenship, they remain underground, untrackable, part of both a shadow economy and a shadow underworld. Their being underground doesn’t keep them from receiving public benefits, as most of the states with large Hispanic populations–all of them except Arizona–have made statutory provision for the providing of benefits to such people. Do I favor such laws? No. But do you seriously think those laws will be changed, given the Democratic control of the legislatures of most of those states? Once more–you’re not getting them out!
    The present reaction is like the Roman reaction to the presence of the Goths south of the Danube in 378–it might have been stopped much earlier, but by the time they did something, there were simply too many Goths, and the effort to expel them was the worst disaster in the history of the Roman Empire, at Adrianople. There are now too many Mexicans to expel them, and the ones who are here legally will support the right of those here illegally to stay. Even when they in principle agree that the illegals shouldn’t be here, any effort to curb the illegals is seen as being not just anti-illegal but anti-Mexican.
    It is possible for Republicans to get respectable shares of the Hispanic vote. George W. Bush got something north of 40% of the Hispanic vote; given the monolithic Democratic voting of California Hispanics, which approaches the level of black support of the Democrats, that means he probably got a majority, or something very near it, of the Hispanic vote outside California. California is something of a special case; the Democrats have wooed the Mexican vote at all costs, while a Republican governor was point man for an effort to crack down on illegals (Pete Wilson). Arizona may be getting into the California situation as well, with Jan Brewer being their Pete Wilson. The difference between the two states is the strongly Republican Anglo vote and the very small black vote, contrasted to a closely divided Anglo vote and a large black vote in California. Otherwise, the Hispanic vote isn’t nearly so Democratic as it is in those two states.
    Rubio is conscious of the fact that the older generation of Cubans who came here to escape Fidel and were intensely Republican is passing from the scene. Florida is also gaining a large number of non-Cuban Hispanics (mostly Puerto Rican, with some Mexican). If the Hispanic vote in Florida becomes heavily Democratic, that state will become safely Democratic.
    Get it through your heads. It is becoming impossible for a Republican to be elected president on the white vote alone! The white vote itself is only somewhat Republican, because of the large number of “bobos”–middle-class left-wingers who dominate the suburbs of most major cities today and in some states even the small towns, the large number of government employees, the large number of people employed by universities, the increasingly numerous and active homosexual vote, etc.. If you’re getting 55-60% of the white vote, but only 5% of the black vote and 25% of the Hispanic vote, you’re done. The Asian vote splits narrowly Democratic, and American Indians are as Democratic as blacks. New York, California and Illinois are already safe Democratic states in presidential elections, and Pennsylvania and Michigan nearly so. Virginia and Florida threaten to become so. A major component in the shift in the last two is the growth of the Hispanic population there, and the shift of the Hispanic vote to the Democrats in Florida. Marco Rubio, though the only Hispanic candidate in the race for the Senate, did not carry the Hispanic vote.
    Frank’s post seems to assume that we can write off the Hispanic vote and survive as a political party. We can’t. We’ll be a permanent minority, surviving because of dominance in most of the South and on the Great Plains and competitiveness in Congressional and local elections in the Midwest, but increasingly unable to win anywhere else. Yes, even with a friendlier immigration stand, it’s a tough sell, but it’s a sell we can’t even attempt as long as this issue stands in our way. This is an overriding issue to Hispanic voters. Hispanic businessmen and skilled workers who might otherwise vote Republican are becoming solidly Democratic. If we can stabilize our share of the Hispanic vote somewhere in the 35-40% range or better, we are in fair position to be a permanent majority party. But if we don’t move soon, a whole generation of Hispanics will become so locked into the Democratic Party that nothing we do in the future will move them; they’ll be like the black vote.
    I’m old enough to remember when some Republicans still did fairly well among blacks; it doesn’t happen any more, and it all goes back to Goldwater’s opposition to the 1964 civil rights bill. Nixon got about 35% of the black vote in 1960; in 1968 he got about 15%, and it’s been downhill from there. Even since then, Republican governors Kean in New Jersey, Thornburgh in Pennsylvania and Thompson in Illinois were still getting good shares of the black vote. Now you don’t see it anywhere at all. The Democrats have locked that vote up. Do you want the Hispanic vote to get like that? It’s already that way in California and, to a lesser extent, in Arizona.
    There’s another point. Obama has decided to try to demagogue the issue and object to any border security measures being part of the bill. That puts him to the left of people like Luis Gutierrez and Xavier Becerra–putting the lie to his pretensions that he is moderate and Republicans are the stonewallers. If he continues as he does, he can get a negative reaction that will give the GOP some chances in 2014 that it might not otherwise have. Right now most polls, including Rasmussen, who is no enemy of Republicans, show that a majority of people place the blame for impasses on the GOP; this could break that up.
    I support what Sen. Rubio and the other Republicans involved in this measure have done.

  • rightlane1111

    Well…here is the thing…Obama can be overruled but nobody seems to look at that. The only way…put pressure on the legislative branch.

    I’m not changing the subject. This man…that is the best I can do on this board…automatically gave amnesty to young people up to the age of 30 JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION by EO. Do you remember that!

    He has violated the Constitution. PERIOD…END OF STORY. Here is a quote..think about it real hard…because we had better do something and do it quickly.

    “When the defense of liberty becomes a crime, tyranny is already in force. At that point, failure to defend liberty makes slavery a certainty.”

    Now…what EO’s has this POTUS signed that are in direct conflict with the oath he swore to uphold? This amnesty thing was one…and it benefited him for the election.

  • jppickens

    I like Sen. Rubio’s ideas and support them. I have always been treated with more respect by the illegal Hispanics than by American men.

  • Seedyrom

    Its not amnesty, the definition of amnesty is

    1- a general pardon for offenses, especially political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction.

    2- Law. an act of forgiveness for past offenses, especially to a class of persons as a whole.

    3- a forgetting or overlooking of any past offense.

    Wages will not be driven downward wages will go up as employers are caught underpaying and black markets exposed shall reduce wage issues.

    Sure its morally unfair but life is unfair for many. We spend billions in deportations and we need to reduce those costs, that’s conservative. We’ll never have a perfect border solution but as the senator said he wont go forward till better border laws are passed, that too is conservative.

    We can do better with Hispanic turnout during elections but this isn’t all about influencing, its about solving problems. If the GOP and conservatives people had the balls to stand to the MSNBC and DEM hate machine with strong intelligent arguments we’d see better turnout. As is, most are afraid to challenge lib and dem lies while they feed the same lies to Hispanics that were used on blacks, different group, same specious lies targeted to latino issues.

    EVerify should be imposed on every employer, not just the large ones, that’s where the GOP went wrong but future plans were discussed to bring in more companies. All talk but its needed.

    Also, we don;t need fences everywhere, in some open areas gov should create 25 foot walls of dirt that run for miles near border access roads to corral illegals into choke points where they can be caught more easily. Placing choke points near roads will allow agents access to view any steps or ladders built into the dirt or real ladders left behind. Sure the border is huge but choke points offsetting US and Mexican cities will discourage some and we’ll catch others. We’ll never see 100% protection, not even at our homes because people will try to find a way.

    If Mexico would end its socialist stupidity and develop wage laws and build industry the way we have then a lot of people would stay. I haven’t given up hope that one day they’ll elect a real leader but the latest president is as morally bankrupt as the buffoon Obama allowed into the House of Representatives.

  • inaudiblenoise

    Take a listen to John, a young man in Ireland who longs to be an American, explain his take on this amnesty plan. http://youtu.be/nj2fyvkWvxY

    Link to John’s blog post about his call to Levin: http://youngpatriots.com/2013/01/an-irishmans-american-dream/

  • cardinaldog

    Senator Rubio, I appreciate your candid and open communication. Although in some ways your solution to our illegal immigration is hard to swallow, I do support your approach to the problem because I believe you will fight our future for a real solution!

  • 3skorn3

    I just spent two hours writing a response. Then I remembered Alice’s Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie. “The judge walked in with a seeing eye dog…” American Blind Justice ain’t gonna look at anything I write and nobody really wants to “belong” to America anymore like my ancestors and I did. That’s why I swore to support, protect and defend the USA when I joined the US Navy in 1969. Oddly, I thought our President, Senators, Congress people and Supreme Court Justices swore the same thing, some of them just a couple of days ago. How quickly they forgot…..

  • commonsenseobserver

    “Rubio has lived this lack of an immigration policy all his life.”

    No he hasn’t, and even he hasn’t dared to claim that openly, I hope.

    Cuba policy is one of our saner areas, mostly because the issue is more black-and-white.

    But the time has passed for these people to avoid the problem by fleeing to another country and brazenly flouting its laws.

    Now is the time for them to make a stand against criminals, tyrants, and Communists. If their own societies cannot be bothered to change, open borders are hardly likely to help them rather than harm the US.

  • khhunt

    Regarding those illegals who agree to stay with work permit and without benefits:

    Who will pay their medical costs??
    Who will feed the poor hungry children? (liberals will use that line)
    I suggest community health clinics and food pantrys, but you may want to get that in writing too.