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Redstate Has Become Bot Central — We Need A Moratorium

When HWSNBN had Bots crawling all across the internet spamming websites like Redstate, the management of this site placed a ban on all mention of HWSNBN for six months.

What we have here is a unique Bot situation.  We have the Pro-Bots crawling all over the internet promoting SWSNBN as a combination Joan of Arc, Ronald Reagan and Mother Teresa.

At the same time we have the Anti-Bots who swarm all over the internet deriding SWSNBN as demonstrating all of the worst traits of Lizzy Bordon, Adolph Hitler and Attila the Hun.

Maybe it is time that Redstate had a complete six month moratorium on any diary or comment about SWSNBN!

Anyone else agree?

Sanity beckons…

Tags: ,

COMMENTS

  • $peciallist

    Michelle is pregnant or not….we’ll change topics

    • DONTREADONME

      I like Sarah Palin there I said it; however, david’s got a point, then again mbecker seems to be taking care of the bots.

      That said WTH is HWSNBN and the other variant that starts with an S?

      • aesthete

        and its newly-christened counterpart, “She Who Shall Not Be Named”. Basically, the former was used to refer to Ron Paul when the Ronulans were in full force. The latter is for SP, for the same reasons. It fits :)

      • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

        and now She Who Shall Not Be Named…

        The first was a reference to a former candidate who had a, how shall we say, rabid following….

        …and still does.

        • SteveLA

          YIKES!

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      That question was answered with the first story on Morning Coffee

    • StandardCandle

      nt

    • Flagstaff

      mid-October, 2012. Make a note.

  • Finrod

    Sarah is going to continue to make news whether we talk about her or not. Why freeze her out?

    I can get on board with a moratorium of all 2012 candidate talk until after the 2010 elections, though.

    • SteveLA

      But comparisons of Governor Palin to Ronald Reagan, Joan of Arc, Mother Teresa, Lady Thatcher, Jean Kilpatrick and others tends to makes non bots want to hurl.

      • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

        of her as Lizzy Bordon, Adolph Hitler and Attila the Hun.

        Don’t pretend you are not part of the problem…

        • SteveLA

          OK that’s good, can you prove what you just said with some links where I have used any of those terms or you are you just engaging in hyperbole, or is this more of your usual pattern?

          As to part of the problem, yep guilty as charged.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            you understood EXACTLY what I meant, and EXACTLY what I was saying.

          • SteveLA

            You attributed those words, those names of derision in regards comments made to describe Governor Palin being made by me, they are not ones that I have ever used and yet you persist in making allusions that I have.

            In other words, you EXACTLY lied, pretty simple.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            and consistently act like one.

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      the anecdote?
      http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2009/07/08/they-want-us-to-surrender/

      I would favor a limit on Palin and/or Race42012 stories. The Lower Forty-Eight on the Fruited Plain are burning under a Great Recession as the forces of Liberty around the world tarry on without the support of the President of the United States. Meanwhile the Drive bys obsess over Neverland’s Billie Jean, Sarah of the Frozen Tundra and SC’s Pepi Le Pew.

      • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

        and we have thousands of internet Nero’s fiddling away with trivialities.

        • Tbone

          LOL

  • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

    Fleeting span there was
    (IIRC)
    when bards freely sang.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      Before the moratorium came the Haiku…

      …maybe THAT is the answer — HAIKU!

      • CincoSolas_del_Bronx

        Benefits:
        1) definitely cuts bandwidth
        2) probably slows interpost intervals
        3) ostensibly raises level of discourse

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

          I’m not sure how the level of discourse could get any lower, without the site becoming dKos.

  • dskinner11

    If she takes a 6 month hiatus from everything public and just writes her book, spends time with the family and studies the issues it would to wonders for her.

    I say this as someone who could never vote for the current version of her in a primary. That said I am not opposed to seeing if she can re-invent herself before 2012, but she won’t be able to do so if she remains in the public eye.

    Her supporters aren’t going anywhere and the people who are against her (myself included) will certainly calm down if she just backs off the stage and gets out of our faces for a little while.

    A re-invented Sarah Palin would be a great thing for the GOP. My preference is for her to take out Young next year and then to take out Begich in 2014.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      but whether she goes away or not, I would just like to see the level of Botdom drop at Redstate.

      I don’t want to hear about ANY CANDIDATE for president until after 2010.

      Personally, I think she is running in 2012…

      but I don’t want to hear about it until after 2010…

  • $peciallist

    Sarah oh Sarah

    you are moosehunting awesome

    owe owe owe owe stop

  • cookcountyconservative

    gets up the nerve to call the zero’s policies “immoral” I’d be glad to jabber away about them.

    In the meantime, GO SARAH GO!

  • Tbone

    “An early look at the 2012 race for the Republican nomination shows Mitt Romney at 25%, Sarah Palin at 24%, and Mike Huckabee at 22%. Forty percent (40%) of GOP voters say that Palin hurt her chances of winning the nomination by resigning as Alaska?s Governor last week.”

    That 40% would be out of the 25% for the born loser Mitt and the 22% for the born crook The Huckster.

    Now, I don’t personally care much about Palin except that if you had three simultaneus events anywhere featuring the 3 above, who do you think would draw the biggest crowd?

    Yep, that’s was a no brainer.

    Now, if the Old Fool had run with Mitt or Mike would he have done better or worse?

    Who knows, it would not have been like anyone would have even cared that either of those two proven losers were on the ticket.

    Politics is like horse racing. The fastest horse may not always win, but that’s the way to bet.

    • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

      Just check any of the online straw polls, where you’ll find Ron Paul leading by a huge margin…

      • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

        that is cruel…

      • eburke

        Ah yes…yet another keyboard ruined.

  • djemi

    But I have no problems hearing about SWSNBN, if its in some kind of fundraising situation/campaigning for candidates that I approve of, granted thats prity much any Conservitive Republican candidate. I would also say that it’s a good idea for her to disappear for a while, although I fear the media may not let her, her being such a ratings queen. I would say that I like her but am prudent enough to know that with age comes wisdom and she is still young……..thats enough of that now. 2010 is more important if we are to survive the current head of the executive branchs’ anti freedom ways.

    • Jack_Savage

      We need to focus on 2010 completely, and I guarantee Sarah can help with that. Lay low until summer of 2010, then hit the road to start her pile of chips.

      • aesthete

        Mrs. Palin will probably be very involved in fundraising and support for candidates in 2010. A diary that focuses on the actions taken by SP relating to 2010 would be just fine, IMO.

      • djemi

        And anyway IMHO we will more than likly see her before hand, at issue based events, energy, special needs and pro life. The things she is already well versed in. I do hope that she writes the book(s) herself and that she emerses herself in the study of those weak areas in her resume. But only time will tell.

        All I know is that I attended my first county meeting Tuesday and will be attending the Young Republicans meeting next week. I will also be vounteering for the candidate that wins the primary in my House district, I might even do the same for the Senete candidate to. As well as seeing what help I can offer the down ticket poeple.

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

          that at all of her appearances for the next year, she will be stumping for candidates and and selling her books.

          SHE will not be talking about running for president — but her Bots will — incessantly.

          SHE will be concentrating on 2010 — WE should be concentrating on 2010 — but the BOTS Pro-and-Con will talk incessantly about 2012.

          • djemi

            I thought that it was site etacit for the diary writer to check what others had posted so that they were not to many diaries covering the same subject ( I get it, bots travel in packs and flood the zone). I know I’ve been told that more the once. I know I was frustrated Friday Saturday when nearly all the post on the Resent post page were on SP.

  • aesthete

    We’ve already seen a diary advocating Romney as our “only choice” for 2012, approximately 1.5 bazillion in favor of Sarah Palin (or in adulation of her timeless wisdom), and one for DeMint in 2012. DeMint, for cryin’ out loud! At this point, speculation on 2012 is pointless mental masturbation. And, while it’s true that most political commentary/philosophizing consists of some variation of that (God knows there’s more than enough evidence to convict me of doing it, from time to time), some of the Palin commentary, for and against (but mostly for) has been gratuitous in indulging that subset of commentary. I’m not sure if I would support a moratorium quite yet, but if things keep getting worse, I don’t see many alternatives (though I’d still like to see if there are any).

    I’d recommend, but my browser isn’t letting me :(

    • eburke

      Enuf w/the 2012 speculation already. Holy Cow! Can we concentrate on little details like getting Toomey, Rubio, Kasich, Portman, et al elected first?

      • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

        yes, enough of this…

        …I have already donated to Toomey and Rubio?

        I’ll worry about 2012 in a couple years.

      • discerningconservative

        I already reco’d the diary, but I will reco your comment, too. 2010 is what is important now, and since I am from Ohio, I am happy to see Kasich and Portman on your list. I have already volunteered my time to help Kasich, and donated what money I could to both.

        • eburke

          which one to contribute to ’cause I can’t afford both. Already done the Rubio/Toomey thing, the guy running for Congress in IL (whose name is escaping me for some reason), am involved in a couple down ticket races in MN, and want to see if Neumann will be running for Gov. in WI since I know him personally and he is absolutely golden as a 3-legged stool conservative.

          If you’ve got suggestions one way or the other let me know. Right now I’m torn between a guy who I believe really, truly gets it (Kasich) and the need to keep another Red Senate seat from turning blue.

          • discerningconservative

            That is why I have volunteered time for his campaign. I don’t know how much they will call nor what they will ask of me, but I will do all I can. I gave more to him than Portman, and will give more later if I can. I am also watching the other elections across the nation, and will help with them if I can. As far as suggesting one to donate over the other… it is a hard call. They will both need it, and as a buckeye, we need BOTH of those spots to be R in 2010.

    • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

      Sad… very very sad…. As I, and a bazzilion others have said and worth repeating another bazillion times: There is FAR TOO MUCH TIME between now and 2012 Primaries. The MOST important, of course being, the 2010 Elections (Conservative Candidates (the Diary))… Yet we get the SO AND SO IS THE ONLY 2012 CHOICE OR NO CHOICE leaning garbage and we can’t get by feeding the MSM uses snippets out of context to feed Republican in-fighting narrative (additional commentary on that here (speaking out against SoSo discussion) and here with major respect to: the MSM challenge – The “Pretend you’re a Liberal MSM reporter (and Spin the story)” Challenge)… Can we get folks to argue (Analyzing Campaign chances by more than “gut feel”) and about Sittiing Out ONE ELECTION at a time please!?!?!

    • mbecker908

      to actually campaign for and raise money for Toomey, Rubio, etal.

      I would hope that anyone who expects to be taken seriously beyond ’10 would be there ready to go to war.

      • eburke

        Rubio because that will show me to a large extent who really gets what’s wrong w/the GOP right now and who’s just another go-along, get-along member of the old boys (or girls) club who are more interested in their Georgetown cocktail circuit status than they are preserving and promoting freedom.

    • Aaron Gardner
  • gekster

    A basic overload of requests to confuse and jam servers.
    Or am I wrong It won’t be the first time.
    But where did Sahra come in?

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      LOL – DOMA?

      The Bots I am talking about are much more insidious than the North Koreans.

      • OccamsRazor

        Personally, I like to see the new crop come in and add commentary. It could be a galvanization of the simple silent majority-a backlash of the current Adminsitration. I recommend just giving $pecialist a weekend night blam stick and let the place run amok for a bit while the dust settles. Of course, I’m just getting back from vacation and haven’t been wired in. ;)

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

          is vitriol and hatred thrown back and forth — father taking up arms against son — brother against brother — it is carnage.

          All over whether Sarah Palin is a Saint or a Demon.

          • OccamsRazor

            Yeah. No internal civil war neccessary. Let’s all stay focused on the facts at hand and not guess in either what lies in the hearts of wo/men or which way the winds will blow near ’12.

  • gekster

    A bunch of people go to a website at the same time with multiple hits, and your server, as the one for RS, gets overloaded and gives up untill it is safe.
    Thats putting it simply for me. That way I understand.
    I was asking if this was happening.
    Or did I miss it.

    Tell me about the Bots, and how did Mrs. Palin get into this?

    • gekster
    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      yes, DOSA… except, that is not what this diary is about at all.

      The Bots we are talking about are the “true believers” for a particular candidate and en masse post massively syrupy diaries about their candidates.

      HWSNBN [he who shall not be named] was the name I coined for Ron Paul, when his Bots swarmed the sites last spring.

      SWSNBN [she who shall not be named] is a new name for the Palin Bots.

      The point of this is that at this time we have competing bots — not for two different candidates but FOR and AGAINST Palin.

      This is entirely destructive — the hatefilled fighting back and forth among our own posters does nothing to further our own causes — LIKE TAKING BACK CONGRESS IN 2010 — and simply divides us.

      I can see how the bots/HWSNBN/SWSNBN stuff could look like some sort of technical stuff…but its all inside baseball around here.

      • gekster

        and I’ve been around enough to have been hit by a couple of those baseballs.
        If I don’t understand, I ask. no problem.
        But where did this become about Palin?

        • gekster

          where in the article did Palin get mentioned or implied?

          • gekster

            If you want to imply Mrs. Palin, just go ahead and do it. Make it simple for us dummies. LOL And I hope you see it as LOL

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            SWSNBN was to imply Sarah Palin — Yes.

            Again, I would hope that it is plain that it is not Gov Palin that I am arguing against — but the Pro-Palin Bots and the Anti-Palin Bots who have started a Civil War here and elsewhere. [ or as it is sometimes called, The War of the Far Northern Aggression]

          • gekster

            not meaning nothin, next time I’ll look harder.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            is inside baseball – the regulars know what the meaning is, but newbies who didn’t live through the Huckabots, or the Paultards or the FredHeads might not know what we are talking about.

          • gekster

            no problem i see

  • AceInTX

    even I’m ready to spend a day or too without hearing her mentioned…there are other things happening in the world after all

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      Heck, if she runs I’ll probably be out there knocking on doors for her — but in the meantime — I don’t want to hear about any water into wine — walking on water — or conversely any plagues of locust — or spinning heads vomiting pea soup.

      The point is NOT against Sarah Palin — it is against the BOTS for and against — who are turning the site into a war zone!

      You look at the next diary up and shout “INCOMING!”

      • Scope

        INCOMING – David, you made my sides hurt laughing.

      • Aaron Gardner
        • AceInTX
  • TNJim

    …to concentrate on, with one addition:
    Being prepared to man the phones as health care comes up, cap and tax in the Senate, the increasingly talked about “second” stimulus (which as Gamecock pointed out in his most recent diary is really about the 5th or 6th one), etc., etc.
    If Sarah endorses candidates for 2010, fine. We can talk about it when it happens. I happen to like Sarah, but al the speculation about what when how if she’s going to run is getting old. Talk about when it happens. Right now the Dems ruining our standard of living is the thing, with 2010 the next big thing.

    2012 is so 2 and 1/2 years from now.

  • Achance

    and the like. I suppose I must be among those with whom you’re troubled, but if you look at my diary history since she was annonced as the VP nominee, I’ve written two more or less opinion diaries about Her, one strictly factual leaning favorable when she was announced and one right after the election in which I set out my reasons for not being a fan. That’s a position in which I’ve been consistent for my whole tenure her; one of my very first diaries was a report on a gubernatorial debate here for the ’06 election in which I was critical of her shallowness. I’ve also written a couple more that were just event driven. I’ve written lots of comments in response to the various fantastic and counterfactual hagiographies and I’m never reticent to counter some of the fantastic claims based on God knows what.

    Actually, I’d be very happy if she’d sit down and shut up, work with her ghost writer- she sure ain’t writing no book herself – complete sentences completely elude her, go to the Lower 48 on a book tour, preferably a long one, and get my State off the front page of the WaPo and NYT. I can’t wait til July 26th. Anyway, no more hagiographies, no more responses, but I ain’t holding my breath.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      I?d be very happy if she?d sit down and shut up, work with her ghost writer- she sure ain?t writing no book herself – complete sentences completely elude her

      You had to slip that in… and THAT is the kind of stuff that does NOTHING to help. That promotes the dem talking points about her being dumb — not curious as they like to claim about GWB. That is the kind of s**t we don’t need.

      • Achance

        and birds. Sarah Palin is very smart and clever about getting herself elected and noticed. My very smart and clever cat doesn’t speak or write so well. Sarah Palin without a script that she’s either reading or has had time to memorize is a very painful thing to listen to, and I’ve heard a lot more of her than anybody posting here has.

        • djemi

          She can’t be any worse than Him, can she?

        • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

          Seriously, Art, there’s a lot I listen to and agree with you on but this isn’t one of them. Every time you mention her, you put her down in some way, in a personal way that is not necessarily factual except by your interpretation of the facts.

          I like Palin but I’m no bot for her and also think we need to can 2012 talk right now. I have my own thoughts about what’s going to happen in the near future and all I will say is that it’s going to real interesting.

          I am, like David, sick of the extremes of she’s the Saviour of us all or the other, Devil Incarnate. She’s a person, human, just like the rest of us; flawed in some ways, better in some others, and perfect in only a few.

          Holding people to standards that are impossible to meet is what got us Obama because his whole life is a fiction created by people who are no friends to this country. His real life is hidden and blocked from view but it’s the real life consequences we’ll have to deal with, isn’t it?

          • Achance

            that I’ve actually been very restrained in my comments regarding former Governor Palin out of deference to the site and to avoid the inevitable flame wars anytime she is mentioned. Unlike EVERYBODY else here, I know her and I know her associates both from her time as Wasilla mayor and with the State as an AOGCC Commissioner and as Governor. The Sarah Palin you all know is a creature of a national campaign’s spinmeisters and speechwriters.

            Because I know her, I didn’t vote for her as Lt. Gov. when she ran and lost in ’02. I didn’t shed any tears when she quit the Murkowski Administration. I didn’t vote for her in the ’06 Republican Primary. Frankly, I can’t imagine the circumstance under which I’d vote for her if there was another Republican to vote for. I’m a loyal Republican, so I did vote for her in the ’06 General and for the McCain Palin ticket in the ’08 General, but frankly, it was a vote against Tony Knowles in the first instance and against BHO in the second.

            Frankly, I can’t wait until July 26th when hopefully she’ll start making herself rich with her book deal and otherwise drop out of sight in Alaska. Unfortunately, I don’t think it will be that way because she got herself a taste of the big stage and she wants the best lights so we’ll get to see “It’s All About Sarah” played out on the National stage.

            Now, I’ll just sit back and wait for the sycophants to descend and tell me once more that I’m afraid of strong women or that I’m just angry over losing some gravy train, neither of which is true but since the bots don’t do that fact stuff, it makes them feel good to say it.

          • $peciallist

            We all love you and we all listen to your advice…I for one need some Real hope…Sarah is helping keep us together

            Thank you for letting us indulge

            When the battle heats up…I will look to you for guidance. I promise

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            I’m not against your facts. I like facts. With facts, I can make my own decisions. The problem is, you almost always (restrained in it or not) throw in the personal with those facts. When you do that, you detract from your own credibility rather than dissuade the bots. That leaves openings for them to say you’re afraid of strong women or over losing a gravy train.

            I get that you hate her. I get that others thinks she’s “Caribou Barbie” who can be used to shill for other Republicans… a pretty pet trained to perform on command. Others think she’s God’s gift to conservatives.

            The truth lies somewhere in between the absolute haters and the unquestioning worshippers and neither of those two extremes is helping advance conservatism as both are invested in keeping the status quo without realizing it.

          • Aaron Gardner

            Then you get crapped on by both sides. I don’t believe that what Palin did was the best political tactic of all time, at the same time I don’t know if this has ruined her for 2012 although I suspect that to be the case. For that I have been called a fool and other names.

            I take the facts that Art provides and make a judgment on the facts, I also take the other anecdotal information he provides and put it in context and judge it. Anyone not doing that, who then jumps on Art, is more than likely a Bot and should be Hinz Ruled.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            That’s the thing isn’t it? You’re either a bot for this person, or that person, or some other… or a shill… or a troll… or… well, there are plenty of names to go around all of which lead to needing a smaller tent in the end. Not everyone is as immersed in politics as you, Art, I, or any serious diarest on RS.

            I’m not either for or against Palin in this fight. I believe it remains to be seen what it is or isn’t in terms of politics. But what I see is a lack of listening, no matter whom one supports. It has become personal,and emotional, the politics of personal destruction. People engaging in such often forget their own destruction can be a result of such tactics.

            The big Great Thing today could be our Worst Nightmare tomorrow, i.e. Mark Sanford for the most recent.

            All I really want are good conservatives leading this country. It’s fairly clear I’m never going to get that so, if you want to call me in the middle because of that, that’s okay, too. I’ll continue being in the middle until there are such leaders.

            I was a Fredhead and I remember well the things that were said at the time. I remember being told I “have to” quite a lot. Nobody appealed to me doing the right thing because it was the right thing but simply because I “had to.”

            I’ve never been good at following the leader for a “just because he or she is…” reason. And I do take the personal out of it when making decisions. However, not everyone can do that easily.

            I like Sarah Palin and Art hates her. So what? I also like Bobby Jindal and he has his fair share of detractors. I still like Michael Steele although he has been somewhat of a disappointment. There are any number of people I like and I’m sure you can find many who don’t agree with me. Also, just because I like them doesn’t mean I believe they would adequately fill the job of POTUS or any other position. It’s my responsibility to choose the best we can get among all the choices, nothing more, nothing less. That’s a responsibility I take seriously even if my method of getting there isn’t the same as yours.

          • aesthete

            To me, those who refuse to use reason when analyzing a candidate, or who refuse to admit when their candidate is wrong, contribute to the problem, and unfortunately, there are many Sarah Palin fans (not you) in that category.

            A related, but separate, problem that we get is with those supporters is when they turn the political into the personal. The crowd that runs around accusing Art of being a “good ole’ boy” without facts, or those who label anyone making an argument in favor of Palin as rubes are definitely among these. These individuals are the ones who ruin the chance of a rational discussion of Sarah Palin, IMO.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            when you have the emotionally invested going one way and the rational going another you can’t appeal to the emotional with “have to” and expect it to work very well. Otherwise, Art’s strategy below might have gotten us McCain which would at least be a few steps up from Obama.

          • Achance

            strategy for National Republicans. I think we need to go back to a true minimum winning coalition where we look for the minimum electoral majority and no more. I’ve you go back and look at some of the diaries I did after Comrade Obama’s election, I talked of defending the Republican “Homeland.” I think we will work best as almost a separatist party, secession light if you will. We need to look at the states we hold and make sure we can hold them in ’10 and figure out the minimun Purple or, maybe, Blue states we can pick up in ’10 and ’12. We need 50% + 1 and getting 50% + 2 means we made one too many promises or compromises.

            We tend our vegetables in our own states. Make our news in our own states. Avoid the DC and Blue state media like the plague that it is. If NYT and WaPo reporters want to follow Republican officeholders and candidates, they need to come to Red states, not go to Georgetown.

            We also need to force ourselves to learn to govern competently. It is only a matter of time until Comrade Obama’s auditors and investigators start perp walking Republican officeholder. The Public Integrity Section perfected their approach to it here as a sleeper cell operation in the painfully naive GWB Administration. In Rahm Emmanuel’s hands, the PIS will be Comrade Obama’s Gestapo. We have to defend our officeholders, something we don’t usually do.

            Anyway, b4 this gets any longer, think about how internally divisive and electorally unproductive the “big tent” has been. All it has really done is allow the pundits and Republican celebrities to stay in NYC, DC, and LA rather than having to actually expose themselves to flyover country. We need to face the reality that we are the Party of Flyover Country. We will not carry one of the Blue States no matter what we promise. All I want to promise them is “All Hell,” to use Sherman’s line. We run a National campaign against the Blue States and their parasite constituencies and who cares if we win by only one electoral vote? The Country is on the brink of violence anyway, we might as well properly frame the argument.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            it doesn’t mean the same thing now as it did when the term was first used. In that respect I agree with your losing faith in it because I’m there, too.

            Make a diary on the rest because I think it needs its own separate discussion.

          • Jack_Savage

            If we can prevent further transfer of national wealth from red to blue states, we should take care of our own and let the blue states live in the hell they have created for themselves.

            Then we can work on an internal immigration policy when they try to continue to flee the cesspools for the red states.

          • Achance

            and welfare, UI, etc. At some point you run up against the protections of the US Constitution on right to travel, but it would be worth it to find out just where those limits are. Finding ways to refuse to accept either the federal money or the conditions placed on that money is also a good strategy. Most of the restrictions on our liberty are in the form of regulations and guidelines that our own states accept as the condition of getting federal funds. Most of this stuff has never been enacted by a Congress or decided by a court; unelected bureaucrats just write up their wet dream, publish it in the Federal Register and the next thing you know, it has the force of law in your once sovereign state.

          • Aaron Gardner

            My intent was to say that I am in the middle as well battling both my logical and emotional sides on this specific issue. I hope you didn’t take what I said as a slam on you. I agree with everything you said above with the exception of Art hating Palin. I really don’t believe he hates her, I just don’t think he trusts her and I am sure he has his reasons.

            Anyhow I just wanted to make sure that you didn’t think I was saying that *you* suck for taking the middle on this.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            But… when you throw something out there like that, it’s good to clarify sometimes that you simply don’t care if they think you’re in the middle, which is where I am. Honestly, I’m sick of the 2012 talk along with investing in any one person, no matter if it’s a person I like myself. A month before the Mark Sanford debacle there was talk of him for 2012, too, and like I said:

            The Great Thing today could be tomorrow’s Worst Nightmare. Better to stick with the mission at hand and worry about 2012 when the time is right for worrying about it.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            I left some things out. I think Art does hate her. Given what he has said here I can’t say I blame him. However, hate, too, is an emotion so to make a claim against the flip side which is love of that thing the other side hates is to give credence to one emotion over another.

            That’s why I’m always after him to not interject even restrained personal statements in his diaries of facts. I like Art and respect his opinion a lot. I hope he gets that along with the only thing I’ve ever really criticized him for doing.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            love and hate are both on the same side of that coin. The opposite of hate, like the opposite of love, is indifference.

            knowing that explains a lot about Art, if you think about it.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            nt

          • Achance

            on politicians. It’s not despise, detest, or even contemptuousness either, because I do have a certain admiration for her ability to manipulate people, especially weak-minded people.

            Sarah Palin is the pretty, popular girl who always got what she wanted. It is inconceivable to her that she would not get what she wants. It is inconceivable to her that anyone would question her. Todd shares a lot of the same character; visualize the Alaska version of the quarterback of a high school football team that won state in Texas – and he’s married to the home-coming queen. If you explore some of the dumb-a** things she’s done as Governor, you’ll find Todd’s fine hand.

            It is a good thing for me that les majeste is not a crime these days. I’m just not as impressed with Sarah Palin as she and her admirers are. From the moment I met her, I considered her to be a fake and a lightweight. She’s pretty, and that meant she didn’t have to read those old heavy books. Sorry, folks, but the Sarah Palin that Kouric interviewed is pretty much the real Sarah Palin. Now that she’s caught a little Hell over it, she’s discovered books and newspapers; when you want to be President, pretty isn’t enough.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            Sometimes the homecoming queen is more than a homecoming queen.

            Marsha Blackburn, for one?

          • mbecker908

            I’d take Blackburn.

          • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

            I’m just picking on Art… just because he’s so loveable. You know, in the polar bear sort of way, ;-)

          • Achance

            I like her a lot, though I think she’s risking her future by being the spear point. She has a bunch of spineless men who are more than happy to have her say and do things they don’t have the courage for and they’ll drop her like a hot rock.

    • djemi

      But I would be very intrested in reading the ” one strictly factual leaning favorable when she was announced and one right after the election in which I set out my reasons for not being a fan “. Then again thats what the search engine is for. The ‘favorable’ one and the ‘after’ one part of the 11th, right?

  • Rod_Patrick

    Why don’t you try it for yourself FIRST? Why not make a bond to yourself that will never mention HER name in 6 months?

    The proposing political scientist:

    David Hinz

    The hypothesis:

    HINZ OF RS SHOULD BE NAMED “THE WEAKEST LINK” IF HE EVER MENTIONS “HER” NAME IN HIS 6-MONTH MORATORIUM PERIOD!

    The apparatus:

    All diaries and comments in RS.

    Activities:

    David Hinz will never mention “her” name in any diary or comment.

    Period of experiment:

    July – December 2009.

    Goodluck, bro.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      n/t

    • OccamsRazor

      for 6 mos. :| That would just be extremely annoying.

  • Josh Painter

    If you don’t want to read about it it, don’t click on it.

    File that one under “Personal Responsibility”

    Which leads to another thought…

    If you believe that a topic don’t get enough exposure, write a diary about it.

    - JP

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      help of the people in the lifeboat are bailing water out with a teaspoon, while the other half drills holes in the bottom of the boat to let the water run out.

      One side of the lifeboat is pulling the oars trying for land, while the other side of the lifeboat is sitting on its oars, trying to hold the boat in one place.

      The result of all this is we’re sitting here sinking, while traveling in circles. Maybe you like that situation — I mean the scenery keeps changing as we pull in circles — but we aren’t actually getting anywhere — meanwhile we are still sinking!

      Happy?

      • naraht

        I’ve seen less depressing descriptions of the conservative movement on DailyKos.

        • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

          Given current trends, it probably won’t really sink in until 1Q 2010. Mind you, I expect a 4Q bounce for perceptions of Democratic prospects, although not one that will be reflected in campaign contribution totals.

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            when you say “I expect a 4Q bounce for perceptions of Democratic prospects” what you mean is a bounce for perceptions as reported endlessly by the Oldstream Media.

            Like the “worst economy in the last 50 years” throughout the entire Bush Administration, it will be entirely media [DNC TalkingPoints™ ] driven — with no resemblance to reality

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            Stimulus money is like bread cast upon the water, and it will come back to the DNC coffers for they shalt find it after many days.

          • Achance

            to get money out to Democrat/Left front groups. All Democrats know how government contracts and grants work: in addition to your stealing privileges and necessary walking around money, at least a quarter to a third, often much more, of the money must either go to another Democrat front group or back to the Party. Stupid Republicans just try to steal some or funnel a contract to a friend or contributor and always get ratted out to the press.

          • Tbone

            nt.

          • Jack_Savage

            We all know that the stimulus was simply a taxpayer funded political payoff. I live here in University / Education / Government / Grant land, and I cannot tell you how many people I have talked to that are thoroughly disgusted that the trough they bellied up to is empty. They sincerely believed Obama was going to spend money on them, and he simply hasn’t. This middle group, left-leaning but not very politically active, can see what has happened and doesn’t like it one bit.

            Look for tepid explanations / confessions like Ed Rendell’s and Slow Joe Biden’s to crop up more frequently. The first stimulus was too narrowly focused on the little thug footsoldiers of the angry left’s army, and not enough on the normal touchy-feely idiots that populate their wavering base.

            They have painted themselves into one hell of a corner, and if the GOP can find anyone with any credibility to run against these guys in 2010, it will be a sobering day after for the commies.

          • Finrod

            The ones that thought Obama would pay off their mortgage/put gas in their car/put a chicken in every pot/your slush fund metaphor here.

            The question is how many of them will get disgusted and vote for a Republican, or not vote at all.

          • Jack_Savage

            Sort of like when the brownshirts tried to muster to go door-to-door advocating for the stimulus package, and no one showed up. God, how I was waiting for that knock at the door.

          • Achance

            I think if we “shorten our lines,” firmly hold our current states and narrowly target some likely swings, we can start working on 50% + 1 victories and in the short run at least protect ourselves while we figure out how to mount the counter-revolution – and I chose that term deliberately.

          • Jack_Savage

            50% + 1, and then begin to deliver some of the inside baseball ass kickings / purgings that you have outlined so well in some of your comments previously. I would even advocate boning up on our Saul Alinsky when the time is right for the counter-revolution.

          • Swamp_Yankee

            Republicans dont know how to a culture war never mid wage a counter revolution. The only play book that matters is circa Barry Goldwater, or circa Ronald Reagan. We are eternally about 30 years behind. We figured out the judiciary game about thirty years after them, we figured media manipulation about thirty years after them.

            We run around trying to herd votes assuming that some secret silent majority still exists like it is the seventies. How the liberals warpes the youth and the immigrant cultures escapes people.

            I’m all for that tactic, but not enough conservatives get it. When your from a Blue state, you learn how to fight on the political front and the cultural front. Political activism is relatively futile without a significant shift in the culture to re-orient certain demographics.

          • Achance

            but I think it CAN be done; the real question is WILL it be done. It won’t be done with current leadership; they are almost to a man and woman Rotary Club Republicans who run even from people like me, and I can dress up and put on nice manners.

            We need operatives and we need people who really like hurting people, in the figurative or political sense of course.

          • Finrod

            We need people that can do politically for Republicans in this country what our Marines did for the US in Iraq: clear and hold.

          • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

            yep, that is all it was/is…. Careful worrding about “Contract considerations” like “competitive bidding” were/are (and will continue to be in future legislation) offset by the term “extent possible.” Of course, in the Democrats minds it is “not possible” because everything is hurry, hurry, rush, rush, the sky is falling, and therefore these HANDOUTS (er… I mean, of course, “Stimulus Contracts”) go to the firms closely allied with the Democrats and/or Unions for kickbacks/paybacks/etc…. D $ Laundering – Dem. Money Laundering (PC excuses to $pend)

          • naraht

            Kossites who think that the Conservative Movement isn’t in as bad a shape as David Hinz apparently does.

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            There’s a generally inversely proportional relationship over there between how nasty they are about us and how worried they are. Right now they still think that they’re winning, so it’s mostly pro forma. It won’t be until this time next year that the really virulent stuff comes out again.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      don’t get snarky with me Sparky

      • Scope

        Josh- I agree that no one is forced to click on any diary that contains anything they don’t want to read/hear. Same goes for comments, if you don’t agree just move on, unless of course someone is trolling. Correct facts, but, stop trying to force others to see things your way.

        David- I understand your point in that the fire and ice floating around RS has been unbelievable. The personal attacks at each other because they feel/believe one way or the other is destructive to the entire site. Having said that, the same thing happens when there is a topic which incites the “Conservatives” and the “Moderates.”

  • jerry38

    I like Sarah Palin. I do not love Sarah Palin. I think she has to stop using the word “there” completely. She just needs to take it out of her vocabulary. She could still use “their” and “they’re,” just not “there.” She also needs to expand her viewpoints beyond the Rep. talking points and get super real with the people. That is her strenght and if she becomes just another sounding board she will lose it. For instance, I read the Time interview and she talked Cap and Trade mostly in terms of the business impact becuase countries like China and India wont be hampered by the tax and business wil flood their way. However, I think SP is a global warming skeptic who doesnt believe our carbon use is causing the earth’s temperature to rise. She should come out strong as a skeptic and be dammed the squishy middle road that only focuses on the negatives of the bil, while failing to addesss that the underlying purpose of the bill is a scam. Same on abortion, same on small government, same on Obama’s marxist tendancies. Come out strong and uncompromising, be the politician that you might not agee with all the time, but that you darn sure know where she stands. That being said –

    Sarah Palin is doing something right now that we must do and that we must turn into a movement. That something is dismantling the media. As many bots as possible should be mobilized in this effort, because until the partisan media is taken down, we are fighting with a straightjacket on. The millions and millions of Americans who watch the evening news or even the morning shows and have little or no idea that they are basically viewing an infomercial for the left must be reached, one on one, person to person, and they must be shown the facts that are not being reported. Sarah Palin is the ONLY national political figure to go after the media in such a direct way. We should foster her, cheer her, repeat her – and encourage all SP bots to do the same when it comes to this issue.

    Besides all that, I think that the people who are passionate about Sarah Palin are similar to the people who were passionate about Ron Paul at least to the extent that both SP and RP have evidenced that they put principles above politics and thus they campaign as real people versus packaged people. People sense the honesty in this and many are ready for a candiate they can trust versus a candidate who says “all the right things” and makes “all the right moves.” Again, this is a movement that in my opinion should be fostered and not ridiculed. We didn’t have the perfect candidate in RP and we don’t in SP, but we did not have the perfect candidate in Barry Goldwater either – but he opened the door for someone like Ronald Reagan.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      I hear what you are saying and YES we do need voices speaking out against the policies of the president — against the Socialism that is creeping [not creeping -LEAPING] into our government — and YES Gov Palin is a strong voice for that.

      So should we all.

      BUT BOTS ARE NOT THE ANSWER!

      Bots only turn people off. Support your candidate — any candidate — but when people turn it into hero worship THE ONE type rhetoric — it becomes a cult…

      …and one cult in today’s politics is one too many — we do NOT need another.

      • jerry38

        Bots turn some people off and they turn other people into bots and still others simply enjoy the dialouge. Not every Sarah Palin fan is a bot, not every bot is rude, and not every group of Sarah Palin bots is similar to a cult.

        By attacking the “bots” in the manner you have suggested you marginalize Sarah Palin and you marginalize what she stands for, and you marginalize and alienate many “bots” who, in many cases may simply be newbies that are exited about a candidate. BO basically got elected on the backs of bots. Do you ever wonder why John McCain had basically NO bots? Nobody, was passionate about John McCain – except for those who were passionately against him.

        We discuss big tent crap ad nasuem when it means abandoning our principles under the false premise that it will make our candidate more electable, which I wholehearedly disagree with. But I do think we are making the tent too small when we start alienating other conservatives simply because they are overzealous in their support of a particular candidate.

        If individuals are rude – throw them out. But eliminating discussion about SP? Suddenly anyone who defends her will be labled a Bot or Palintard. It will be the regulars who are the ones calling the bots names and justifying it becuase “they did it first” and Redstate loses face all around. I dont have time to puruse 20 sites a day, and I like what I read here and learn here. I don’t want it to be artificially restricted.

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

          NEIL, get out the bunny

          I need a vacation from the mindless

          • jerry38

            Why dont you get out your own bunny? Talk about cults. I have no time for hypocritical egomaniacs like you who cant get past a negative post without calling for big brother and calling me “mindless” all the while preaching against the mean old Sarah Palin supporters and how they throw personal attacks. You are the problem. If you dont like what I say – leave it alone as I am going to do with you now – or make a coherent argument against it.

            Ps: As it happens I am going on vacation next week. Come up to Harbor Springs Michigan and we can call each other names face to face. But first I must say, I am rubber and you are glue – whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

            gbye

          • Aaron Gardner

            There is a clear difference. One can be effective and useful in the movement, the other isn’t usually. Furthermore RS already has plenty of Palin supporters, even though we are all watching and waiting to see what is going to happen.

            If you think sending bots out to other websites is good for the movement go for it, but here at RS the bots will simply turn off people who are already supporters of Palin.

            We don’t need to make Palin’s life into the Life of Brian, we just need to let Palin do her thing and support her when she is right. When she is wrong we should try to correct her, just like every other person we choose to represent us.

          • jerry38

            and I get that for those who spend a lot more time here they probably experience a lot more annoyance than I do, becuase I just shy away from Palin diaries that seem redundant. But I do think from my experience that once you go down that road of banning discussion, a quick draw mentality sets in and simple supporters will be labeled bots and the distinction that you mention will be blurred to the detriment of open dialogue. I also fully agree with your statement:

            “We don?t need to make Palin?s life into the Life of Brian, we just need to let Palin do her thing and support her when she is right. When she is wrong we should try to correct her, just like every other person we choose to represent us.”

            And my two cents is she needs to take 6 mos or so and learn the national issues and develop her style of speaking to the issues. I believe that to cut through the media a conservative leader must be able to deliver persusaive answers and speeches on conservative issues that go beyond regurgitation of talking points. Reagan could do this. Clinton could do this. Palin to this point has not been able to do this.

            So I also agree with the general notion that I would hope not to hear too much from her for a little while, but I still don’t agree with banning discussion.

          • Aaron Gardner

            I don’t support banning the discussion, just the individuals who do nothing to contribute to that discussion. If a few people get caught in the net they can always appeal via the contact form, many people have been reinstated, to include Neil Stevens who is now a moderator.

            The point being that if you pick-off the extreme offenders quickly at the beginning they won’t be able to dominate the entire site causing us to lose focus on 2010.

            You seem like a reasonable guy, and I think with all things considered you and David would probably agree in the end on this.

          • jerry38

            .

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            the bunny was for me — I took a day away from the site to… get away from the site. At times I think I need a prolonged sabbatical from this place… and I suspect a number of posters here would agree!

            As for Harbor Springs — one of my favorite places to bike through — they used to have a wonderful ice cream parlor there…

          • jerry38

            Going to take the mountain bikes this year as my oldest is getting into it and my wife put the nix on taking the boat up. If you’ve biked the Boyne area let me know what you think.

        • kcdude

          You nailed it. It would be a shame if sharing conservative and Republican ideas and ideals is censored – except when name calling takes place.

        • Scope

          and you are correct when you say that because someone supports someone else, they are automatically a “bot.” I then can be considered a Fredhead-bot, because I passionately supported/support him and his Federalist ideas. Because he didn’t win the nomination, doesn’t mean that I have changed my opinion of him in any way, as he is still a Federalist.

          On Redstate, we are all made aware of those considered to be “good conservative candidates” that are running in areas of the country where we have no knowledge of the candidate or his/her positions on the issues. So, does that mean that if we choose to support Rubio, we are Rubio-bots or Toomey-bots?

          I particularly like your sentence-

          “But I do think we are making the tent too small when we start alienating other conservatives simply because they are overzealous in their support of a particular candidate.”

          My only question with that is- What is a “Conservative”, as it seems that that line in the sand has not yet been drawn, it keeps moving, even among those that consider themselves Conservatives?

          • jerry38

            Thanks for the comment. As it happens, I have attempted to articulate base conservative principles in this post

            http://www.redstate.com/jerry38/2009/05/02/valley-forge-project/

            Under the heading “principles.” These are a combination of statements from Russel Kirk, Glen Beck, myself and probably some others that I forget.

            Of course my definition of conservatisim doesn’t get us any closer to consenus on defining conservatism for the movement. I believe we should come to such a consensus at least at a core level.

          • Aaron Gardner

            you can read it here.

            I will read and comment on yours.

          • Swamp_Yankee

            Kirk has become almost incompatable wth the modern Republican Party. Its too bad. I prefer his brand as well.

            But his principles were not static. They changed numerous times throughout the course of his career.

          • Aaron Gardner

            some principles were added or re-worded.

            That said the resulting 10 Principles* are definitive enough for me. If followed they would return the Republican party to what it should be.

            * EPU would beat me savagely if I didn’t link to Kirks principles….he is a cruel lord.

  • streetwise

    “and where they go I’ll follow,
    She/he will always be my true love,
    my true love, my true love”

    Just quoting from the 60′s tune by Peggy March that seems so appropriate…

  • Vegas_Rick

    I get a kick out of reading Josh’s and Gary’s posts about Sarah. But I can also see why they would drive others nuts.

    Sarah Palin is going to do what she’s going to do. It’s going to be very interesting to watch. Let’s all just calm down, watch what unfolds and comment as events happen.

    We should be focused on stopping Obama’s statist agenda and taking back as much of the House and Senate as we can in 2010.

    I “think” that’s also Sarah Palin’s near term plan. Along with her book tour and other appearances.

    Let’s leave it alone for a while and see how this all plays out.

    • Doc Holliday
  • BooBooKitty

    Not so much because I think we need a moratorium, but to make the case that those that would like to see less of Sarah should promote their on preferences in the more relevamnt 2010 races.

    The problem that I have, and I think it affects many of us here, is that there are just so few Republican ins or hopefuls that can garner even a quarter of the excitement and support that Palin does.

    We have one exciting filly among a crowded stable of old nags worthy only of pet food and glue. Maybe this Sarah excitement will teach a few old horses some new tricks… if they don’t die of thirst first.

    • janis

      Sarah gets the enthusiasm from so many because she’s the one who generates the excitement. Pawlenty, Romney, et al, are as exciting as Cream of Wheat. Wouldn’t it be great if a couple more candidates rose to the forefront in the next year or two?

      “Come out, come out, wherever you are……”

  • Maggie_in_Indiana

    Are you serious.?You may get tired of reading both sides of the Sarah Palin love/hate affair,so what. Don’t read it. Don’t comment. This site has always had many sides of a particular subject to read and disect as so many here do. And thanks to every single one of you who do. It’s great insight and sometimes just good entertainment.

    I say we should all be more tolerant of the writers opinions even if they aren’t as astute as some here believe themselves to be. After all the news cycle is 24/7 and many of us depend on redstate for a diverse take on every subject that is caught in each cycle. truth is some diaries are of no interest to me what so ever and those get skimmed and then on to the next. Who here does not do that?

  • http://applescorneroftheorchard.blogspot.com/ Pomme

    At first, I bristled at the diary title. Then, I realized that the bots indeed have done the DNCs work. We’re bickering about an election FOUR years away, fercripessake!

    The biggest annoyance to me last election cycle was that it was so frikkin’ long! Two years seemed like a million! I don’t even want to experience the cycle that takes four years!

    Let’s worry about the 2010 elections then discuss what the playing field looks like at that time.

    Perhaps not a moratorium exactly, just a tad bit more sanity and reality in topic discussions. I think, and this is just my opinion, that SWSNBN is thinking the same thing.

  • Swamp_Yankee

    An Endorsement from the punk runk wife that wanted Miss Cali, Carrie Prejean, kicked out of Miss America.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,530986,00.html?test=faces

    The Bad: Media saturation, tabloid like headlines, Shanna Moekler

    The Good: Star power, instant headlines, Shanna Moekler

    I’m sure no one around here cares about Moakler, but she is popular and its symbolic of how Palin gets the attention of women, the youth and people in tune with pop culture in way that tradional old white Republicans guys never can.

    You can ignore her, but others won’t. And that cedes the story line to those that write them (e.g. hollywood, Perez Hilton, Andrew Sullivan,…)

  • JustLeaveMeAlone

    Liking or even championing a potential candidate does not make one a “bot”. And to so-label Palin supporters is but another way to marginalize.

    I don’t like narrow-minded elitism, whether it’s from the left or the right.

    YMMV.

    • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

      for someone who has been on this site for the length of time you have been here…

      …or did you merely read the Cliff Notes in the comments?

  • redneck_hippie

    Both pro- and anti-bots need to redirect their energy to crucial 2010 races.

    Let superfluous diaries and posts die due to lack of comments/recos.