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The Tragedy of Red State

Two months ago, The Atlantic ran a piece called “The Tragedy of Sarah Palin.”  

The author, Joshua Green discovered something seemingly only Limbaugh and Levin listeners and viewers of The Undefeated were aware of until then: that Palin was a great governor whose outstanding governing record endeared her to Alaskans. Joshua Green “explained” that Palin’s many achievements and high approval rating stemmed from her moderate stance on the issues, and blamed her “turn” toward conservatism when picked for VP as the cause of the public’s current hostile treatment.

Imagine my surprise and shock several weeks ago to come across another attack against Palin but this time coming from the complete opposite direction. The article was written by Leon H. Wolf, a front-page writer at Red State. The claim: Sarah Palin started out as a true conservative who has made a U-turn, became a moderate, and linked hands with the establishment.

The absurdity of Green’s article is mirrored in Wolf’s piece. Palin has been, still is, and will continue to be a staunch conservative, often taking on the establishment in order to promote conservative ideology.

Their attacks seem to be geared to sway readers who think positively of Palin while currying favor with readers already against Palin. The Atlantic’s readers obviously dislike conservatives in general and Palin in particular. Green thus provided them the perfect explanation to defend their hate towards Palin despite her outstanding record. Red State, on the other hand, is a conservative site whose audience disagrees with the liberal ideology and opposes moderates for not remaining true to conservative beliefs. Wolf’s piece thus gives Republicans who dislike or fear Palin for whatever reason, a decent-sounding excuse for their opposition towards one of the most conservative, fearless, and articulate individuals in this day and age.

Since Red State is not the Atlantic, and it holds sway with many conservatives who can’t see through its phony pretense of neutrality, I therefore felt obligated to dissect Wolf’s article and point out the simple truth: his piece makes as much sense as the foolish column at The Atlantic. I also apologize for calling someone a hypocrite but lack an alternative accurate description that would do justice of Red State’s actions of late.

Wolf criticized Sarah Palin for not yet announcing her decision whether or not she’s running for president claiming it ties up her supporters at a time when all appearances suggest she’s either not running or running without plans of winning.

Whoa! I always thought the GOP rules regarding who may run in a presidential election include something called a primary complete with a deadline until which one may announce their candidacy. Since when has the primary become the result of the hand-picked competition between two individuals courtesy of the establishment? What happened to allowing the people choose the candidate of their choice in the primary? Where are the hit pieces on Giuliani for having not yet made up his mind? The field is far from complete and there’s no reason to rush the process.

Wolf’s argument is quite surprising given that Erick Erickson “proved” in an article written just one day prior to Wolf’s piece that Palin won’t win even if she joins the primary since she polls only 12 percent in Gallup national. Erickson then admitted that her poll figures would probably increase if she announces a presidential run since some of her supporters who believe she won’t run are supporting their second choice.

Wolf, did you perhaps miss that? The Palin supporters who don’t believe she’s running have already chosen another candidate, and if Palin’s decision ends up being negative the rest will follow suit. When the people will head to the election booths, she either will or won’t be in the race allowing everyone to make their decision based on the current facts. Although it’s obvious you don’t want her to run, Palin will choose that which she’ll feel is best for her and the country at the time she deems right, and her supporters have every right to tie their allegiance to Palin since they strongly believe she will run.

The arguments used in the article to support her non-candidacy are 100% nonsense and you must know that. She has the largest boots-on-the-ground force and will be bombarded by donations the day she’ll announce her campaign. If she isn’t running, why would she encourage O4P’s actions? Why would she have a foreign policy adviser? Why would she visit Iowa’s State Fair and be returning there again Labor Day weekend? What is the ultimate purpose of her One Nation tour and the documentary, The Undefeated?

Besides, isn’t it funny how the same individual Wolf describes as not likely to run and incapable of winning, is then described as depleting the oxygen supply in the room simply by entering? Sucking the oxygen out of a room is not something Santorum, Cain, Huntsman, or even Perry and Romney are known to do. If Palin can’t win whether she does or doesn’t run, as Wolf and the others at Red State claim, why do they dread an impending Palin announcement?

Furthermore, Wolf’s ignores facts in order to reach his conclusion that Palin is a moderate. It is shocking and shameful to say the least.

Palin endorsed 64 conservative candidates in the 2010 elections, many of them long before Red State and others glanced their way, including Susana Martinez — the current Governor of New Mexico, Allen West – a congressman of Florida, Rand Paul – Senator of Kentucky, and Joe Miller. Wolf, however, pounced upon her endorsement of two candidates in the primaries, Carly Fiorina and Kelly Ayotte, as proof of Palin’s drift towards the establishment. Never mind that her endorsements made absolute sense if one only bothers looking into the facts.

Palin’s endorsement for Fiorina requires a bit of background. The California Republican Senate primary was a three-way race with Fiorina opposed not only by Chuck Devore which Red State endorsed but also by Campbell, a candidate with ties to radical Muslims and a more moderate than Olympia Snowe. Campbell was leading the polls with Fiorina lagging behind and Devore a far third. A Campbell victory would portray the Republican Party as the water-downed version or even the mirror image of the Democrat Party. A debate between Tom Campbell and Boxer would result in who has done more to save the environment and expand government programs.

Palin’s endorsement of Fiorina, who was the conservative candidate with greater chances of beating Campbell, gave Fiorina the necessary push to win the primary thus resulting in a conservative representing the Republican Party in the debate and campaign against Boxer. Although Boxer was reelected, voters in California have been exposed to conservative talk and to a clear differentiation between the ideologies of the two parties.

Regarding Palin’s endorsement of Kelly Ayotte, the primary consisted of two conservatives. While Red State and some others pumped Lamontagne as the stronger conservative Palin and others supported Ayotte as the true conservative. Each had their minor flaws as every human being does with different people ultimately preferring different choices. If your favorite ice cream flavor is vanilla, is the next guy who prefers chocolate wrong with his choice? Are people no longer allowed to disagree peacefully? How does Palin’s endorsement of Ayotte brand her as a moderate? Is Ayotte’s current record in the senate not enough proof of her conservatism? She co-sponsored a bill to repeal Obamacare and voted against the debt ceiling deal. What liberal bill did Ayotte vote for? (And if she did vote “moderately” in one instance she would probably apologize just as Perry – Red State’s favorite — has apologized regarding Gardasil, thus negating her vote.)

Sorry, but having candidates’ opponents endorsed by Red State, make neither the candidates nor their endorsers un-conservative.

Wolf questioned Palin’s endorsement of Christine O’Donell who was less electable than Mike Castle, since Palin based the above two endorsements partly on electability. The comparison however is equivalent to a comparison of apples and oranges.

Palin’s endorsement for O’Donnell is unlike her previous two endorsements since the primary didn’t consist of two conservatives; Castle cannot be described as a conservative by any stretch of imagination. He had voted for Cap and Trade which threatened to destroy America’s economy and supported campaign financing rules that would favor unions while putting businesses at a disadvantage. Mike Castle would be only slightly better than a Campbell in Senate, and would jump to “compromise” with the Democrats in exchange for some media attention.

In Washington, Sarah Palin endorsed the more conservative candidate, Clint Didier, who signed the pledge not to raise any taxes while Dino Rossi who was endorsed by Red State refused to do so. Does that make Red State a moderate site?

Wolf’s continued comparison of Palin’s recent support of Orrin Hatch in light of her opposition to Mike Castle is ludicrous. Castle’s lifetime ratings according to the American Conservative Union is 51.62% and only 38% in 2010 while Hatch was one out of 11 senators to earn a perfect score in the American Conservative Union’s 2010 ratings and a lifetime rating of 89.47 percent. How can one even attempt to compare the two? Now throw into the equation that Hatch happens to also be an excellent debater and extremely articulate of conservative ideology, a true rarity amongst conservatives these days.

Most importantly, Hatch is currently the ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee. If the Republicans take control of the senate, that will make him chairman. This is the committee that writes tax policy and has jurisdiction on Social Security and Medicare. If Hatch loses his seat and the Republicans take the senate, the new chairperson would be OLYMPIA SNOWE! (h/t bradkarr.)

Shocking, huh? One may disagree with Hatch on certain issues, but to say he’s not a true conservative is not being very honest. How about instead of slamming Palin for speaking positively of Hatch’s seventeen attempts to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment, or attempting to oust Hatch in exchange for some low-ranking Congressman with an unknown record, onetake all facts into consideration?

(UPDATE: Hatch’s almost opponent backed off.)
If Wolf’s article were the only disgraceful one on the Red State site, it would perhaps be somewhat understandable as one writer who overstepped the bounds and deserving of a scolding of his editor. However, the editor himself, Erick Erickson is the one leading this hypocrisy. 

Erickson wrote an article January 3rd drafting Mike Pence to the race, with the explanation that although he’d wish Palin would be the next president she’s too polarizing and he feels she won’t be able to win the primaries.

… I am not excited by or inspired by any of them save Sarah Palin and, as much as I love Sarah Palin, I am adamantly convinced that she cannot win given the ridiculous smears and hate thrown her way by Democrats and, frankly, by a lot of Republicans. She has been made radioactive. 

I would, however, still gladly vote for her and support her. I’d rather go down with her than up with some of the others.

…I’d have rather gone down swinging with Barry than sell out with Nelson any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I feel the same way with Palin.

Erickson then posted an additional column reiterating his support for Palin provided Pence doesn’t run:
Third, and I think this is the key point: 

I’d have rather gone down swinging with Barry than sell out with Nelson any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I feel the same way with Palin. (Emphasis by Erick)As it stands right now, if the election were held tomorrow and Mike Pence isn’t in, Palin has my vote. Don’t get me wrong, I can be persuaded by any of the other candidates in all seriousness. And the odds are in the favor of several of them. But my heart is with Palin.

This was obviously a load of nonsense aimed at fooling his readership since Erickson has since jumped onto almost every bandwagon but Palin’s. As soon as Pence’s decision not to run was final, Erickson, who had written he supports Palin even if it would mean going down with her as by Goldwater, didn’t attempt to draft her even once. He toyed first with Huckabee and then placed his hopes on Mitch Daniels, although that came to a halt after Daniels put out a “truce” on social issues. Erickson then turned his entire energy towards drafting Rick Perry, the Governor of Texas. Erickson’s efforts were rewarded with Perry’s announcement at the Red State event, with Erickson introducing Perry. Red State, though, continues to play uncommitted to any candidate for the 2012 Republican primary. 

There are three basic kinds of political sites. The first kind is a general site, say — a conservative site, that will jump to defend all conservatives on the receiving end of criticism for outright fabrications, believing it is crucial for all honest individuals to fight for and defend the truth whether or not you support the person’s positions, policies, or candidacy. The Breitbart sites model of this type of behavior, as seen in their defense of all candidates and conservatives facing media falsehoods and exposing lies from the liberal left. Examples are their exposure of the doctored video Ed Schultz used against Perry, the falsehood of Ziegler’s rumors about Palin, and the calling of Bachmann a flake.

The second kind is a political site whose focus is to support and defend a specific candidate. Such a site’s focus is obviously on that specific candidate’s achievements, as well as attacks thrown their way. This behavior is also the expected of such a site and doesn’t cause any raised eyebrows.

The third kind of site masks their real agenda. Red State has unfortunately joined this third group with their pretense of judging all conservatives equally and “vetting” Perry’s record, while unofficially having thrown their support behind Perry. Red State should switch over to being the second of these three groups in order to be considered an honest site who acts with integrity.

Update: Dan McLaughlin penned a piece endorsing Perry, stressing that it is a personal endorsement and not on behalf of Red State.

Erickson’s underhanded manner of supposedly supporting Palin while running after everyone else is just the tip of the iceberg. When honest conservatives question Perry’s executive order regarding Gardasil, it’s hypocritical of Red State to claim that an apology wipes away a candidate’s past record. Attention all candidates seeking reelection or a different office and in want of Red States’ endorsement: All you’ve got to do is apologize for any negative item on your record, say that you erred and regret it.

It wasn’t enough to only have Erickson respond to the Gardasil gate, as is usually the case with others. Everyone jumped into the “protect Perry” mode, as each took a different angle in whitewashing Perry’s attempt to ram down this shot via executive order against the protests of the legislature. Ben Howe posted a piece titled “Vetting Rick Perry” which more likely should have been called defending, excusing, or exonerating Rick Perry. Repair_Man-Jack played undecided in his support of Perry’s candidacy. Streiff and again Streiff showed his true colors, calling for Perry or else.

Streiff even went so far as to issue a “fair warning” announcing his intention “to treat those making those allegations in a way indistinguishable from the way birthers and truthers are treated.” (banned from the site.) Erickson re-posted his article of 2007 where he slammed Perry for the executive order, and explained that although he disagreed with the executive order, it still had the opt-out factor. Combined with the apology, and the fact that it never happened, the issue should be laid to rest. Erickson also noted that:

…this issue (Gardasil) only really resonates on the right.
Really now. Was anyone here waiting with bated breath for the left to call out someone expanding the control of government? Of course it resonates only with the right; it’s the right that’s concerned about the current size of government. We got primaries for a reason; it’s a time to vet the candidates to see who matches your ideology before sending the winner off to compete in the general election. If we want to call out Obama on his expansion of government, we must present someone who’s the antithesis of big government. 

Red State and Erickson in particular have hidden their political interests until recently and still pretend to vet and treat Perry as any other candidate. Erickson has pretended to have no problem with Sarah Palin as the Republican nominee,and so has Leon Wolf. Yet, they take issue with the fact that she hasn’t yet made her decision although there’s still plenty of time to do so. At the same time, Red State continuously “discovers” phantom evidence and statements proving that Palin is not going to run and that she’s become a member of the establishment. Since when does speaking positively of a Senator with one the most conservative records turn you into a moderate?

I’ve always been honest and straightforward in my articles expressing my support of Sarah Palin for the presidency. Perry is not my first choice for other reasons disregarding Gardasil. And although I’ll admit Perry’s remorse in the campaign shows a savvier political sense than Romney’s refusal to regret Romneycare, regretting one’s previous actions during a campaign is not sufficient proof of true regret. Perry signed the executive order against the protests of the legislature. He was only forced to abandon the measure when when it was voted against by a veto proof majority. If Romney would’ve apologized for his Romneycare bill, would that be sufficient for us to forgive him? Who decides when and where apologies must be accepted across the board by all? How about, and this is entirely rhetorical since it won’t happen, if Obama decided to “admit he erred” in order to win the elections?

Erickson’s two-sidedness is also obvious when glancing at his review of The Undefeated where he found it necessary to write this:

The film concludes with a comparison between Ronald Reagan and Sarah Palin. Just as the Republican establishment attacked and tried to shut down Reagan, they are doing the same to Palin. I’m not sure I buy the extent of the comparison and issues within the conservative establishment highlighted toward the end, but I have frequently said myself that Palin taps into something with conservatives that no one since Reagan has done.
While Erickson didn’t “buy the extent of the comparison” in The Undefeated made by Stephen Bannon, he wrote this, recently:
Next time you hear some Republican consultant say Rick Perry can’t win because he is too much of a cowboy, understand that it is probably a national Republican consultant fearful they will be shut out of work if Perry wins and, more importantly, understand that the same dynamics were in place in 1980 with Reagan’s “boys from California” team of consultants and the national consultants back them said the same about Reagan — he’s too much of a cowboy conservative who will alienate key voting blocks.That’s not to say Perry is Reagan. It is to say the GOP national consultants have been pulling the same stuff since 1980.
So Erickson’s not sure whether the establishment is actually as hateful and condescending to Palin as they were to Reagan, but the attacks on Perry – boy, that’s an exact repeat of 1980. 

Additionally, when Perry gets attacked, Red State is quick to point out the fear the left has for Perry which drives them to falsify information against him. The endless attacks against Palin though, have caused her to become radioactive.

Add to the above that Erickson’s original issue with Palin was the endless smears the media threw her way which, in his opinion, has made her radioactive. If Perry ends up being the frontrunner he too will face similar endless attacks. Will Erickson consider him as radioactive as Palin thus necessitating him to be dropped for another candidate? Whoever wins the Republican nomination will face the hate from the left, and it’s to Palin’s advantage that the left has already emptied their ammunition against her.

It’s a tragedy for a conservative website to behave like Green of The Atlantic in an attempt to control the Republican primary in 2012. People have had enough of phony conservatives pretending to be altruistic while pushing their private agenda. I therefore believe 2012 will be a bottom-up election where people make their own decisions based on the candidates’ records.

This article is cross-posted from The Thinking Voter. 

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COMMENTS

  • Finrod

    RedState is not the place it once was. Just look at today, where Erick and Leon are doubling down on previous criticisms of Palin. It used to be that people here would disagree and argue, but at the end of the day we’re all Republicans wanting the same thing.

    I don’t think that’s true any more. Ronald Reagan’s Eleventh Commandment is dead and buried and RedState has spent the last several months shoveling dirt onto its coffin.

    If things don’t change, we’re going to spend 2013-2016 wondering how we ever let Obama win a second term.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

      RedState, if it ever stood for anything,it stood for quietly accepting whatever happened in primaries, never daring to criticize our betters in the party.

      We’ve lost that with our modern treasonous criticism of current and former elected officials.

      • Finrod

        If you can point out to me how Erick’s and Leon’s slagging of Palin does ANYTHING to help defeat Barack Obama on 6 November 2012, I will take it all back.

        Otherwise I’m going to take your comment as nothing more than irrelevant sophistry, and advise you to stick to the tech issues that you’re good at.

        • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

          nt

      • californiagold

        After watching Rick Perry engage in his first presidential debate, the risk to his campaign will clearly be the social security remarks. Just as Paul Ryan’s medicare cuts were wildy unpopular (even among many republican), the possibility exists that Perry’s social security remarks will result in his drop in the polls.

        Over the course of the next month, if Perry remains strong in the polls, then Palin won’t run. But if Perry’s controversial remarks cause his poll numbers to drop below those of Romney’s, it’s very possible that Palin would seriously think of jumping in.

        Logistically speaking, the latest Palin could make a credible entrance would be the end of October, as deadlines approach a few weeks later in many primary states.

        While many republicans on RS have lost interest in a Palin candidacy, if the only alternative to Obama is Mitt Romney, then Sarah Palin starts looking better and better.

        It all depends on Rick Perry….

      • JSobieski

        There probably wasn’t enough criticism of GWB during his presidencey, and he was at that time a current office holder.

        I think the concept of hate the sin love the sinner needs to be incorporated into our thinking.

        In my view there have been two high points in the utility of this site:

        (1) Collectively biting our tongues after the 2008 primaries and getting people to unite behind McCain — the we are all RINO’s now movement
        (2) Supporting tea party upstarts in 2010–the kick the RINO’s out in the primary movement

        When engaging in (2) we need to remember that eventually we need to unite in (1). Criticizing candidates for things they say or do that are wrong in our view is fine. Loading them up with baggage would hurt them in the general is not fine.

        Proposed Rules of the Road for “can’t we all just get along”

        1. Love the RINO, refute the RINOness.

        2. Don’t attack candidates with the language of the left

        3. Remember that many of the differences we kill each other over are differences not of political philosophy, but of tactical efficacy.

        For example, most people like Palin but there is vehement disagreement as to whether she would be a strong candidate or not.

        4. Don’t characterize someone’s conservative credentials on the basis of who they support (which is often tactical) but rather on the outcome they want.

        For example, Ann Coulter is undoubtedly conservative. Yet people are confused by her devotion to a Christie run. Her support of Christie doesn’t change anything that Ann believes in. Rather, her support of Christie is a manifestation of Ann’s assessment on winning the 2012 election. One can think that Ann is dead wrong about her assessment, but that doesn’t make her a weak kneed conservative.

  • jerry39

    Picking apart posts from over a year ago through today to concoct a grand conspiracy against Sarah Palin and for Rick Perry sounds like looking for racist code words from tea partiers.

    There are those on the left who always have and always will hate Sarah Palin and there are zeolots who have always and will always love her. Just about everybody else’s opinion about her has changed since she first cam e on the scene. Unfortunately for many it has changed for the worse vis-a-vis a Presidential run.

    She resigned as governor and did not bother to prepare coherent remarks for her announcement of the decision. She was not good on fox. She has dallied as a potential candidate for far too long, especially given that she has been a potential candidate since the day after the 2008 election. This does not take away from her outstanding efforts as a Conservative and one that many of us would love to see as President. But her problems are not all invented by the media.

    I have liked Mike Pence too, and of course a Paul Ryan run would have been welcomed. I have liked Bachman and Daniels and would love to have seen Rick Sandorum gain traction. Mike Pence, Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin, and Daniels are not running, Santorum has no shot and Bachman has gone down a few nptches in my opinion. Daniels did shoot himself in the foot, and Palin’s guessing game routine has shot her in the foot too – WITH ME.

    But I am fine with YOU maintaining your support for Palin until the day of the primary deadline. I would expect for you to talk me out of my position and I would try to talk you out of yours. That’s the nature of this site. I have been in knock down – drag out fights about Daniels, and even about the over the top hatred of Ron Paul. But I know at the end of the day, we are most often arguing about the color of the drapes, becuase we are (most) all conservative on this site.

    To come on here and question the integrity of the site and its members who don’t agree with you is plain delusional.

    Sarah Palin has done more to unite the conservative movement and get conservatives elected than most any other elected official. I sincerely doubt she wants her supporters out trashing conservatives with contrivances any more than you want the media to assume Palin was calling for the assasination of policticla foes by her use of the word Target.

    • ntrepid
  • acat

    Palin has a gift, but this is the wrong time for her to run?

    I like her. I think she’s got an incredible gift for turning the root issues into simple terms – “death panels”, “drill here, drill now”, “lame duck president”, etc.

    I do not think she is the candidate we need in 2012.

    Do I, in your opinion, have PDS?

    Mew

    • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

      I enjoy many talk show hosts who are of the same opinion…

      In this diary I took on a different type of attitude towards Palin

    • Finrod

      We can’t know whether this is the wrong time for Palin to run unless she runs. If she runs and fails, then yes, if she becomes the 45th President, then no.

      We can all have opinions on the subject, but remember the old saying comparing opinions to a certain part of the anatomy.

      • acat

        We can know, based on consistently bad polling that she hasn’t changed, that her chances are quite dead. At this time.

        One of the key points Schroedinger’s little thought experiment – and why he didn’t use a dog I’ll never understand – sought to prove is that the act of measuring something changes that which is measured. Polling is measurement, and Palin has consistently had very high negatives.

        This is the wrong time for her to run.

        Mew

        • Finrod

          You’re comparing a candidate that’s already been through the wringer of a national campaign and already suffered every nasty thing the Left can throw at her (remember the bright green SARAH PALIN IS A **** shirts?) with candidates that have not been through that. If anyone else but Palin gets the nomination, the Left will immediately seek to drive up their negatives, and their negatives polling will go to where Palin’s already is. In short, you’re comparing apples to orange juice and saying the former is more solid, when the apples haven’t been through the squeeze press yet.

          • acat

            the media *might* manage to make another candidate look nearly as bad?

            That’s nuts. If nothing else, make the media work to find the dirt, don’t hand them a target on a silver platter pre-garnished.

            Mew

          • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

            As a reasonable person you’re aware that no matter who the GOP nominee will be, there’s always a chance that Obama will be reelected. If that happens, would you allow the media to then go ahead and destroy the few conservative candidates they fear the greatest so that Erickson and the rest of those now claiming Palin to be electable should pronounce those as radioactive?

            How is what was done to Palin any different?

            Abandoning Palin only because of the media is accepting the candidate of their choice handed to us on a silver platter.

            Besides, what negatives? That she saw Russia from her house?
            Which other politician’s emails did the media scrutinize line by line only to emerge defeated and empty-handed? Palin’s integrity is unquestionable and the media, having tried every method possible to prove otherwise, has abandoned her record and focus on the unknown. polls and opinions which will still flip back and forth repeatedly amongst most citizens, with no one capable of foretelling the results.

          • lineholder

            she needs to get in! Let her stand her ground and plead her case in front of the American people with the rest of the candidates. If she isn’t up to it, then fine, that’s speaks volumes, doesn’t it?

          • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

            as for acat… the Daily Kos Pollster Shows that Governor Palin Has Turned an 18-Point Deficit Among NC Independents Into a 14-Point Lead in One. This is just one example.

            So many people are discovering and being made aware of the truth even before an official campaign has begun.

            once she actually runs, that figure is likely to increase (even Erickson admits as much)

          • lineholder

            She has a personal popularity but beyond that it is a no-confidence vote. Seriously.

            She’s missing out on the opportunity of a lifetime by waiting. She could have already announced and have stood on that stage last night with the other candidates pleading her case, which she WILL have to do if she wants a confidence vote. Make no mistake about that.

            If she wants to sit out, that’s her business. But she’s taking a very real risk of marginalizing herself into oblivion.

          • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

            @ppppolls PublicPolicyPolling
            Obama trails Palin by 14 with independents in North Carolina
            that’s votes not just popularity.

            btw – did you consider the original negative figures as personal dislike and possibly positive to her policies?

          • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

            The people which like her as a person but not for president,are the ones who make it personal. They attack her for making different decisions than they think they would in her shoes.

            Her supporter support her policies and ideology. If she won’t run, they will vote for the candidate which is the closest in ideology.

          • lineholder

            then again, the thought that a Palin supporter putting confidence in a poll hit me as being funny! Something about strippers and cross-country skiers, wasn’t it?

            No, abie, it’s like I said, I live in NC. Granted, I don’t know every single person in the state to question them about their opinion of Ms. Palin, but I do know what I hear from the people I come into contact with on a day to day basis. Oh, and given that I work in an environment where that means coming into contact with say 2,000 – 3,000 per day and not always the same people day after day….that’s not bad in terms of establishing a basis for contextual reference, is it?

            They like her personally, but she has yet to win their confidence. And a raving lunatic would poll higher than Obama in NC right now.

            Take it or leave it for what it’s worth.

          • acat

            And she’ll remain so until she has a chance to prove that she’s not the caricature you mention obliquely.

            You know she’s not. I know she’s not. She hasn’t changed the minds of the voters, though – and *polling shows it*.

            There are a number of serious jobs she could do that would, to me, be the right way to overhaul her image and prove herself a contender.

            Further, at this time Perry and Romney and Huntsman etc. etc. are *not* radioactive. Yes, the media will go after them. Future tense. They *might* succeed. Future tense again.

            Why not make them do the work? Why nominate a candidate who would be much better off running for the AZ Senate seat or accepting a cabinet appointment?

            Mew

          • The_Gadfly

            First, no one here wants to submit to the media, which is actually one of our main points of criticism which you in your variant of PDS you overlook: Palin has been unwilling to engage and fight said media in such a fashion as to indicate she will be ready, willing, and able to do so in the future.

            Second, I don’t always agree with Erick, heck I didn’t even always agree with Art Chance when he was posting her before the Great Purge, but ignoring political insight from either of them is done at great risk to oneself.

    • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

      because not distancing yourself rom the, guarantees you’ll be asked, “Are you a flake?”

      It’s be naive to state that what is going on here is Pailn merely being told, “You’re good, but we’re not into you. Don’t run now.”

      Some of this stuff borders on accusing her of self-aggrandizing to the point of sabotaging the GOP and its chance to take back the White House.

  • rightwingnut2

    Spot on.

    Keep up the good work.

  • Leon H. Wolf

    It’s a good thing you put that right up front, thus saving me the obligation of actually reading all of this screed.

    Anyway, you’re right: since I joined the front page 6 years ago and since Erick became managing editor 5 years ago, this place hasn’t been the same.

    • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

      It is expected for conservatives to disagree whether Palin, like any other candidate, is the right individual to challenge Obama and serve as our next president.

      That being said, it was pretty surprising to see, of over hundred comments, no serious challenge to the content of the actual diary; which was not in any shape or form a diary on Palin’s achievements, possible presidential run, etc.

      This diary was written solely to highlight some of the glaring discrepancies that I’ve come across on this site, especially as of late.

      You know fully well that if Palin can be called a moderate because of a few endorsements out of so many which you disagreed with, then Perry and this site can be called liberal, which is not what I call either of you.

      You and anyone may consider her unelectable and radioactive, but to claim she isn’t conservative is pure nonsense and utterly false.

      You claim to have nothing against Palin and the site proclaimed it has not yet having endorsed a single candidate and is vetting each of them equally.

      Drop Palin from the picture for a moment.Instead of questioning some of the not-so-conservative items on Perry’s record as you’ve done for the other candidates , or at least proclaiming your support of Perry, you continue to play neutral while praising him for everything possible and shoving the rest under the carpet. How is such actions anything but phony?

      • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

        …can be aptly summed up as “RedState, Erick Erickson, and Leon H Wolf are all dirty liars” – :shrug: We’re not.

        There. You’ve been answered.

        Moe Lane

        PS: Sarah Palin is not currently running, and if she has not yet reached the point where she cannot get the Republican nomination (in my opinion, she reached that point a month ago), then Sarah Palin will have reached that point within the next two weeks. You may want to start preparing your mind and your heart for that.

        • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

          You either didn’t read it or misunderstood it.

          I haven’t called anyone any names and focused on written content of front pagers (such as Palin having gone from conservative to moderate) and brought proof that the argument is false, not that the authors are liars.

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            It’s not my fault that you don’t like my extremely accurate and far pithier summary of your diary.

          • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

            Simply, when someone states so many facts to prove things wrong, and then the other side puts some words into the authors mouth instead of debunking the claims, it comes across silly-sounding.

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            It

          • Bill S

            .

      • Bill S

        Not a single person – not one – is individually impartial. It is impossible. Everyone has their personal hot-buttons. Each of the Redstate contributors has his/her personal favorite candidates, politicians, etc. And we are not obligated to agree with one another. In fact, we sometimes disagree publicly, on the RS front page, sometimes on the same day. Erick neither requires us to, or asks us to, adhere to any particular policies but one: we must be pro-life to write on the front page. Past that, it’s open season.

        There are at least three people who write here who like Palin, but perhaps for whom she is no longer their first choice. They are free to support her here. I guarantee you, they have not been silenced. But like me, Leon and others, they have largely tires of her silliness.

        So, understand this: the Redstate front page is not a Palin-Free Zone, nor is it a Rick Perry Only Zone. Having communicated regularly with my colleagues, visiting with them in person, etc., I can assure you we have all come to our candidate conclusions on our own. And if someone disagreed, so be it. I’ll note that up until the GOP Convention in 2008, we had a FP writer who LOVED John McCain, even though most of the contributors didn’t care for him. Yet he regularly published pro-McCain diaries, comments, etc…with no interference. The same behavior on the part of contributors holds true today.

        Now, if the opinions of the RS front page don’t jive with yours, too bad. Maybe Conservatives4Palin.com is more your speed. We are not here to be an unbiased voice. We’re here to say what we, individually, think. And based on current polling, I’d say we are pretty well representative of the Right in general.

        • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

          If Erickson would come out and endorse Perry or at least say that as of right now he supports Perry for the presidency although it could still change, I’d have no issue with the free pass he gives for Perry.

          Disregarding the Gardasil issue, the Aga Kahn/Perry curriculum on Islam (covered extensively by Pamela Geller), the education subsidies for illegals, his run for office despite promising his constituents otherwise, etc. none of these plus more were “vetted” by any front pagers as they’ve done to Romney, Palin, and the best.

          If Perry would post at a regular basis well-written articles with his response on developing issues affecting this nation as a whole, there would be a whole host of front-page articles praising his leadership and courage. He’d be singled out as above the pettiness and focusing on the important issues displaying for all a clear view of his position of policies.

          There have been articles on RS defending Palin of blood libels etc. but what about her policies, accomplishments, positions, etc?

          • snowshooze

            And I think if you took a look at the discussions, they were pretty thorough. There are gobs of articles and diaries about Perry here.
            There are also gobs about Sarah, bless her heart, Palin.
            But I don’t see the Perry crowd crying every time they detect some slight.
            But listen, would you like some cheese with that whine?
            Do you need another set of Sarah, bless her heart, rose colored glasses?
            Is there any wonder I am regarding the Palinbots as a pack of mindless groupies? No.
            You guys really need to chill…or at least weed out the nuts and come to actually face and address the Palin mess rather than ignoring the reality of it and foaming up at the mouth anytime somebody says boo about her. I find it quite amusing.

          • aesthete

            (Streiff and Erick disagreed on its import on the front page), and the Aga Khan stuff has been dismissed as the non-issue that it is.

            As far as discussion of Palin’s “policies and accomplishments” goes, I see a glaring lack of same from you. You can hardly accuse RS of not covering her policies and accomplishments* if you and most other Palin supporters aren’t willing to, either.

            *In actuality, they have done so on many occasions in the past.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        Here’s the real problem abie, Palin is bipolar with respect to her political philosophy.

        She talks a pretty good conservative talk. Although her positions on gay marriage and gays in the military and, I’m guessing, smoking dope might leave some a little edgy. She’s on the libertarian side of conservatism as far as her talk goes.

        Her record is decidedly not that of a conservative. Huge increases in business taxes and never met a problem that couldn’t be made to be better or go away with an infusion of money from the state.

        Not a good match.

      • Leon H. Wolf

        In any event, the fact that you don’t get that we’re an opinion website and we’ve never pretended to be a newspaper pretty much says all I need to say about whether I want to waste my time reading your dreck.

        • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

          Opinion writers are entitled to their individual opinion but not to their own facts.

          Maybe according to your standards, you are entitled to do so.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            That those three sentences, when put together, made some sort of compelling point, or even made sense? If so, very sad.

      • Bill S

        Nowhere does Redstate claim to be neutral/unbiased. Nowhere. Now if you can’t deal with that, it’s your problem, not ours.

  • peg_c

    Goes a long way toward explaining some of my own reasons for not being a regular here anymore (and Leon is wrong; those of us who prefer Palin are NOT all religious – fanatic or otherwise). Incidentally, one of my close TP friends is a Dem and she’s literally coming apart at the seams over the Gardasil issue. She much prefers Palin over Perry due solely to that. Another close friend is screaming mad 24/7 over Perry’s “coddling of Muslims.” I can easily vote for Perry, but no one will get a dime of my family’s money other than Palin (and George Phillips, who will challenge Marxist Maurice Hinchey in my district again). I don’t think she’s running but I do suspect she’d have a big role in a Perry admin.

  • kywrite

    First, she follows her own drummer; no one really knows what she’s thinking or planning to do. Second, she is an effective kingmaker, as proven by the number of people she helped boost in the polls with nothing but her nod of approval. That tells you a lot about her support that no pollster can capture.

    As far as me, if she runs I’ll vote for her – and I’ll bring as many friends as I can find to vote with me. So will every single adult member of my rather large family; we’ve discussed it. That’s the strength of the Palin army.

  • red_oakster

    If Perry proves he can handle Romney and Bachmann, it’s hard to see how Palin finds an opening. On the other hand, with Bachmann melting down, if Perry does stumble, the Iowa caucus is perfect for the instant campaign that only P

  • red_oakster

    that only Palin is capable of creating. Assuming, Romney wins New Hampshire, one could expect a 2-way Palin-Romney fight to the finish. In that scenario, I’d give Romney an edge, but not a huge one.

  • aeaeren

    Now I understand what mbecker, Eric and the rest of you have been going thru and the snarky comments I got on the Horserace thread.

    I like Palin but I am not going to trash Perry just because I like Sarah. She needs to either run or get out of the way.One of the reason she needs to declare soon is because some States are going to be printing up their ballots soon and with all this who goes first stuff some States MIGHT be voting on Christmas (jusk Kidding). I live in Florida and I don’t think IOWA should be choosing our candiatates but one deals with the cards they are delt. She can add to the ticket or she can be like now causing ripples in the lake when we don’t need additional ripples.

    But I think the differences of opinion are more over how we look at governmnt. I CAN’T FREAKIN stand the feds. I am almost Ru Paul crazy about government at times. No matter who is in office I see the same people writing the same laws and NOTHING getting repealed. I see the same people getting elected who should have been in JAIL for the stuff they have done. I see the same nannys and more regulations ect. I see the same companies backing laws that will crush their compention and our Gov’t holding them up like they speak for me! What I see with Perry is 20+ years of Gov’t and that 20+ tells me he plays the game of Gov’t and since I am Ru Paul bat nuts crazy when it comes to Gov’t it makes me cringe a little. With Palin I have seen taking on the Good ole boys and she still pushs that message and THAT is what I want. I don’t want another someone who just pushes the wave back the other direction a tiny bit, I want them to undo the wave altogether. Perry has hinted at it and he is for State Rights so I have no problem getting behind him whatsoever but I want to be more comfortable that he will do what he campaigning on now.

    Off Topic I tried to post a diary yesterday after reading Krugman’s column but I don’t have that option on the Masthead. Anyone know what’s up with that?

  • kowalski

    Sarah Palin fighting for support among the editors at Redstate. And some guy named Abie Rubin chiming in to tell us all how wonderful she really is.

    Myself? Sarah Palin is a nice person, I guess, until you get to know her. I like her as far as it goes, and I don’t know her very well. I’m not a political supporter in the sense of her holding office, because I think she’s basically a high-profile Fox News commentator with nice boobs. I don’t want her to be President or Vice President. I don’t want her husband, the “First Dude” and I don’t want Alaska’s Mama Grizzly as my Commander in Chief, either. So tell her to accept what she has achieved or get off the stage, because I’ll protest vote for Lyndon LaRouche instead of her, nice as she is, and as much as I like her.

    • kowalski

      She’s not going to be the President. I’ll actively campaign against the Republican Party if they nominate her. Same thing with Bachmann.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    Erick and many of the other redstaters are starting to see the light. That light being that the tea party express is slowly going off track. This isnt because of the principles behind it, which we can all agree with, but because of the people leading this movement. The people leading this movement have become more concerned with gaining hedlines and making controversial statements rather than quietly build up a grass roots army aimed at knocking out democrats in 2012. Sarah Palin is the perfect face of everything that is wrong with the tea party movment at this point. When Sarah wakes up every morning, she thinks of how she can make healines this morning, not how can I make this country better.

    Redstate is realizing now that the focus of the 2012 election is to defeat the democrats, not to raise a tea party flag eveywhere one can.

    • Tbone

      Dude, you are so lame. Give it a rest.

      • Goldwater_Conservative

        I despise self-absorbed, media hungry, spotlight hording public figures who play conservative so they can stay in the spotlight and continue to build their own bank account. Call me old fashioned, but I like my public servants to be actual servants to the public, not the other way around.

        • Tbone

          nt

        • Tbone

          is she running to be one, is she?

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            and thats the point. If she would just come out and say point blank that she is not running then fine go off and make a fortune on your minnions. But she is intentionally teasing the idea of running for public office so that she can profit off it personally, and thats immoral and its spitting in the face of true public service.

          • Tbone

            You have always expressed some rather twisted opinions but this takes the cake.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            Immoral, definition: transgressing accepted moral rules; corrupt

            Its been a long held principle in this country that to run for the highest office is one of public duty, much like a young person who decides to join the armed forces. It is a service to their country most times at the immediate expense of their own personal welfare.

            Palin is turning that accpeted moral rule on its head as she is doing the opposite, thats why I call her immoral.

          • Tbone

            Dude, at least try to make some sense.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            here is one for you: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/palin-having-great-time-not-running-president-174343110.html

            There you have. Your girl said the words herself, she is having a great time teasing and making a mockery out of the GOP Presidential Primary. Here we have the most important election maybe in our lifetime, and this media whore is out there playing games with the process. Anyone like you who would defend her at this point needs to be sent to an institution.

    • JSobieski

      is accelerating the process. Her aggregate pronouncements are incoherent.

      She puts forth no specific in terms of taxes or spending cuts.

      She refuses to any increase in the debt ceiling and uses it to prove how “tough” she is.

      She turns on the senior scare machine with regards to SS (Perry) or Medicare (Ryan Roadmap).

      If Bachmann wants to show that she is serious, she should put forth a budget that wouldn’t add to the debt. Until she does that, nothing she says from this point forward means squat to me.

    • rightwingmom52

      the grass roots tea partiers I know. We have a rather large contingency who are actively involved in our local GOP. Several of our meetings this year have been nothing but training sessions on how to get out the vote and work toward electing conservatives. I know that to be true of neighboring tea parties as well. If you think otherwise, maybe you need to attend a tea party meeting.

      • Goldwater_Conservative

        people, but I am saying that these self proclaimed leaders of the tea party or destroying the public image of the movement with their own self serving crusades.

        • Tbone

          Names and links to their proclamations please.

          Can’t provide them? I’m shocked!

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            mark williiams, dale robertson, palin herself, right now a lot of the leaders are rushing out to jump in the mud pit and match hoffa’s comments with their own equally repulsive comments.

          • Tbone

            Now I need links to both self-proclamations of leadership AND equally repulsive comments or you are just spewing nonsense like a rainbird.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            if you were worth my time, but you clearly are not.

          • Tbone

            BS.

  • expanding_man

    You are going to get banned! They will not tolerate this kind of talk around here.

  • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

    Everything in this diary is factual and if the truth cannot be stated over here, then why my name is worthy of being scrubbed.

  • acat

    Palin could still persist her way into the big chair, but .. there’s no guarantee of the timing. Fortunately, she’s still quite young, and appears to be one of those women who age well, unlike our current HHS or SecState …

    I could easily see either a cabinet post (Energy – since it’s going to matter quite a lot and is her wheelhouse) or a Senate seat (Arizona …) or even GOP chair.

    The point is, she’s persisting, and that’s the win to this cat. The timing will work itself out later.

    Mew

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    that there is no justification for conservative attacks against her. I would also say that I think one of the main reasons Romney and Rudy did poorly in 2008 was their long campaigns.

  • gt80

    Thank you for taking the time to put this together. What is it about the “end of September” that people do not understand? Also, how come there are no Redstate front pagers commenting on the numerous policy positions that she puts out or her record as governor?

    Which republican has been most out in front on the most controversial issues of the day? Which republican has taken the most arrows from the left/media? Now she has to endure the same from Redstate? How ’bout defending her instead?

    Also I though it was very interesting timing that Erick and Leon waited for Laura Ingraham and Ann Coulter (who both were early supporters of Boehner and his debt limit deal) to take the lead on bashing Palin. The fact that they jumped in one day later was very interesting timing, and not very courageous either.

  • lineholder

    Even if your concerns are valid, you’re going to wait until 3 weeks after these events occurred to post your opinion? Why?

  • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

    When something is of true concern it’s never too late.

    btw- I’ve posted this on my blog a few weeks ago and thought it would be beneficial for Red Staters to see the truth.

  • Darin_H

    Yeah, I still can’t get beyond that. She needs another elected post prior to running for Pres to show she can fulfill at least one term.

  • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

    nt

  • Darin_H

    nt

  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

    People tend to project onto her what they want to, both pro and con.

    That said, I’m really struggling to determine the goal of your post. Running for President is a cutthroat affair, but believe me that any attacks the candidate are facing now are just warm-ups for the hurricane attacks they will face in the general election against the Democrats and the media and various front groups.

    No blog site is the neutral arbitrator – all are going to have their biases and preferences.

    In the end, Sarah’s fate this year is not in the hands of RedState – they don’t have that much power. She’s going to have to make the choice to run or not, and face the storm like any of the other candidates. She got treated abominably in 2008, but it’s a new match and there are no carry-over sympathy handicaps in this match.

  • smitch61

    Redstate has been disappointing for a bit now. It seems to have taken a wrong turn someplace. A once respected blog has become unbearable to read.

  • onemovoter

    That PDS – Palin Derangement Syndrome was THIS bad. I really feel for you on this stuff. I do hope you have a good filter on your email so it sends crap like this to a PDS folder.

    Seriously though, I can understand being hung up on rooting for a particular candidate…. OH wait she isn’t an “official” candidate yet. Well at least for a “potential” candidate…. HMMmm.. well she really hasn’t completely said she would like to jump in, just taking her time thinking about things and letting her supporters know who ELSE to back in the presidential campaign. Oh sorry about that part that she slipped out to the media that only a few noticed.

    In the end the campaign for GOP presidential candidate will end up with one person, who I hope everyone can support, no matter who. It’s a shame that I’m already tired of the accusations of “Erick meant this when he said that” crap. Seriously get a LIFE. Exit question is… what will the Palin supporters do when they find out they have been strung along all this time just so the TEA party can get some positive publicity? hmmm?

  • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

    nt.

  • APA Guy

    Why are so many here willing to put Sarah Palin’s interests ahead of the country’s?

    Sarah Palin doesn’t have a snowball’s change in hell of beating Obama in a general election. Perry will crush Obama into dust.

    As a wise Jedi once said:

    Only a fully-trained Jedi…with the force as his ally…can defeat Vader and his Emperor.

    Rick Perry has the experience, money, principles, and the mojo to send Obama back to Chitown. Only if we desire to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory do we nominate Sarah Palin.

  • radicalrighty

    I got a crush on Palin . . .

  • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

    setting the truth straight.

  • jerry39

    Those who don’t continue to make SP their gal, despite her not being a candidate, are establishment hacks and sell-outs with no integrity. Got it, nothing to do with SP, just a PSA by a disinterested blogger.

  • J. Leg

    …with far more accomplishment in 2 1/2 years than some of the other people in the GOP primary, Rick Perry included. Let’s not forget that.

    It was also RESPONSIBLE for her to resign her governorship.

    Watch “The Undefeated”

  • JSobieski

    Here big 2 policy accomplishments were raising taxes on oil companies and initiating a pipeline with a Canadian company that isn’t being built. Both of those accomplishments relate to Alaska’s unique existence. Neither translates well into something you would see come out of the White House.

    Alaska is basically a socialist state. Obama would love the other states to become like Alaska and have the state collect money from industry and distribute it to the citizenry.

    Palin picked a lot of fights with some corrupt people, but those are more political accomplishments than actual governing accomplishments.

    Perry took the most pro-trial lawyer state in the country and implemented the strongest tort reform that I am aware of. Doctors are moving to Texas. This accomplishment alone scales ot a federal level better than anything Palin has done.

  • snowshooze

    Alaska started an incintive program, we are now eating the production cost’s of movie making in this State, mostly to spotlight our State, but also to generate revenue to the hotels, rental agencies, and restaurants… it is supposed to bring on a boom for Alaska.
    Sarah was the very first one to take advantage of it.
    I was a part of paying for it only because I am a Resident…and had I a choice I would not have agreed to contribute even one single red cent.
    What accomplishments is it that you refer to? Certainly, I should be aware of them as I just live down the street. So it is funny I should be asking you a question like that, I’d be willing to bet you don’t even live in the State.
    Looking at the Perry record, I would casually remark that it appears he did at least 20 times as much in pure activity, as compared to Sarah, and of those ” Accomplishments ” of which you speak…
    just which ones would you want her to try to run on? Most of them need to be ran FROM.
    Hey, I live here. She is practically a neighbor.
    What can you say about ACES and AGIA???
    Or are you just a groupie?

  • Finrod

    Please explain to me how Erick and Leon trashing Palin helps us defeat Obama in November 2012.

    If I could I’d give your worthless comment a NEGATIVE 5.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Is the GOP primary that frail?

    What if she gets in? What if she’s the nominee?

    Will conseratives bolt the party and re-elect a Marxist four more years? Will moderates warm up to the rhetoric of Trumka or Hoffa?

  • jerry39

    It helps in the same way that trashing Ron Paul helps, or trashing Rick Perry helps, or trashing Michelle Bachmann helps – or trashing any other candidate during the primaries. Its how we vet candidates and its what this site does on a daily basis and has done on a daily basis for years. Nothing new – except you guys elevating it to some conspiracy that doesn’t exist.

    Didn’t hear anybody shouting conspiracy when Daniels went from big potential to outcast according to many of us. Or the fact that T-Paw was a favorite as the anti-Romney, until he just failed to get any traction. Primaries are very fluid and dynamic on one hand, while also l(hopefully) leading toward a a coalescence around one or two candidates, and that process is messy. Shouting conspiracy because we change loyalties in the primaries is to make the process itself a conspiracy. But to cry conspiracy when the change is against a non-candidate – is just plain silly.

    Look, I get it. I understand that SP has been wrongfully accused of everything from stupidity to calling for political assassinations. I understand that giving it right back to the media has worked pretty well for Palin and I understand the necessity of an us versus them attitude to be a Palin supporter.

    I even understand how that can lead to the assumption that anyone panning Palin is disengenous.But you also have to be objective enough to recognize legitimate criticism. It’s fine to take a position in defense of Palin – as there are arguments to made in her favor, but attacking conservatives the same way you attack Chris Mathews creates the impression of blind Palin worship.

  • rightwingmom52

    There are 4 pro Palin diaries in the Reco section. You’d think they’d have been removed by now. You say:

    Since Red State is not the Atlantic, and it holds sway with many conservatives who can

  • Finrod

    Most of them anyways. Note how not a single one of them has been promoted to the front page.

    If you can’t see that the front page of RedState lately has taken a distinct pro-Perry and anti-Palin turn of late, then there’s nothing I can say to you to persuade you otherwise. “Dead men DO bleed!”

  • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

    which have been banned from the site for disagreeing with the front page.

    Red State front page, which is considered Red State proper, has had a hidden negative attitude towards Palin for quite a while, with it becoming more open and pronounced with the passage of time.

    The only front page diary that spoke positively of Palin during the last few months was the Ben Howe review of The Undefeated. It was so atypical of Red State that it was pointed at in surprise across the blogosphere.

  • jerry39

    Sorry, couldn’t resist – just playing off your “tease” line.

  • runner12

    I did not agree with Leon’s characterization of Palin, but this diary’s characterization of Erick and Leon is equally is bad. Why is it okay to question their motivations, but wrong to question Palin’s? You cannot have it both ways. IMHO, casting aspersions on a fellow conservative-in-good-standing’s motivations ( even if you disagree ) is never right. Argue on the merits, not personalities.

    I agree with Erick that Palin is unelectable as President in 2012. I wish it were not so, but it is. I suggest she run for Senate and then go from there.

    I might also add that the issue with Gov. Palin is not that she has not made a decision yet; it is that she has held several hyped-up press events similar to an announcement and then nothing happens. Even as someone who respects Palin like myself finds this behavior a bit annoying.

  • lineholder

    And I’m a Cain supporter at that. I’ve got a raging free-market streak a mile wide, so Cain’s promotion of the private sector’s success as a means of ensuring our nation’s economic future resonates with me down to the marrow of my bones.

    I’m sick to death of the status quo and game-playing that we see amongst politicians. There’s too much at stake for this nonsense this time. Private sector growth and development is the best option we have to provide jobs and increase revenues that will let us reduce our debt. The majority of candidates want to tip-toe around everything all the time rather than dealing with issues head because they’re afraid of “backlash”. Well, this is one time when we should be saying “backlash be da**ed” and get to down to the nitty gritty of long-term solutions.

    Now, if Ms. Palin has got what it takes to be the person to lead this nation in resolving those critical issues, let her get in the race and plead her case to the American people. Stop sitting on the sidelines and playing games with the situation as a whole!!

  • acat

    Your argument, abie, is .. flawed.

    Mew

  • jerry39

    But it;’s not because of whom they support, even its it Ron Paul they support. I don’t think you’ll get an argument that there have been itchy trigger fingers on occasion, but I’ve never seen it be soley because of whom they support.

    Now, if you got banned for earlier diary you would assume it was because you supported Palin. But that would not be the case, it would be because your method of supporting her is to attack the credibility, integrity, and honesty of not only moderators, but of EE. – Without any evidence.

    Many many many people have been negative on SP running for President for quite some time. That doesn’t mean we are negative on SP . So the “quietly” negative impression is probably accurate because that’s where many people have been. But there is nothing ominous about that.

    It also doesn’t mean she couldn’t win back the support of many of us, if she showed a path to victory. I’d love a SP presidency. But thanks to people like SP, Mitt Romney is the most (discounting Huntsman) liberal candidate in the field right now, wheras in 08 – he was the most conservative. That’s an astounding victory for conservatives and SP played no small part in that turnaround.

    If we were looking at a field of McCain, Rudy, and Huckabee – I’d be right there with you, saying elect-ability be damned we need to back the conservative. But we have choices, and there is no reason to lead with the chin when you have choices.

  • streiff

    If you made an inquiry instead of post utter bullcrap you might not make a fool of yourself.

    You don’t know where we stand on the candidates because outside of two or three we haven’t decided. From your post it is pretty obvious you can’t be bothered to read beyond what you think has been written.

  • Bill S

    Your comments and your diary are unadulterated manure. I published this on the front page at the end of April. But frankly, based on her antics since then, I wish I hadn’t. At that point I rally, truly hoped she’d run. Now I pray she doesn’t.

    I assure you that many on the FP feel similarly…we have tired of the silliness and we have especially tired of her sycophants. As I commented a week or two ago about Ron Paul … his biggest enemies are his supporters. Palin’s are rapidly reaching the same threshold.

    You have an industrial-strength chip on your shoulder. Perhaps you’re in the wrong place.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    a candidate whether it be Paul, Palin, Perry, Romney or whoever. The ritual involves trucking off to the worship site for that particular candidate, C4P for example, and whining about getting banned at RS because they supported “X” and the moderators don’t support “X” and have it out for their supporters.

    That is inevitably untrue. Other than the “ban on sight” for Ron Paul supporters in 2008 because they go SO nasty the site needed the equivalent of an antivirus run multiple times a day and the moderators were doing nothing but dealing with complete kooks, if you actually look at the particular individual and the issues surrounding the banning, you’ll find that they were simply unhinged.

    Here’s a good rule of thumb for you. When you make a wild and unsubstantiated charge like the this one, you’d better be prepared to produce screen names and links. Without those, you’re just another irrational idiot.

  • jerry39

    In case you didn’t notice the President is giving another campaign speech tonight. He did a bus tour campaigning a few weeks ago. The man never stops campaigning. He is the one we need to defeat in 2012. Some would argue the verry survival of our republic depends on beating this man in 2012.

    We must have a primary season, but at the same time, the faster we can get down to 2-3 candidates, the better, and the faster conservatives can unite around a favorite, the better.

    The fact that practically a third of Red-state activity right now is centered on a non-candidate is not productive to those goals. The fact that conservative bloggers and commentators are forced to give Palin a wake up call on this issue detracts form the asset that Palin is and can continue to be for the conservative movement. The fact that her supporters are blind to any of this gives further ammunition to the left to say – see we told you Palin was a wing nut. The fact that Palin supporters are attacking Perry like crazy – when they don’t even know if Palin is running.is needl4essly destructive.

    I am not one who assumes the worst of Palin. Perhaps she wants to support Perry or Bachmann, but wants to keep her options open to run in case they implode. This goes along with her previous statements that she would run if she was needed, But at this point, she still needs to be in or out – she can always change her mind if the other conservatives evaporate, but everyone gets hurt if she keeps playing this game.

    She gets hurt because she doesn’t appear to have a valid excuse for waiting this long. She gets hurt because the more her and her minions are out attacking conservatives, the more conservatives she will lose – for good. Her supporters get hurt because they are put in the position you find yourself in – forced to attack those who are trying to give her the hint that the act is wearing very thin. Those who like Palin (like myself) but don’t think she should be running this election – or if she is – that she better let us know ASAP are hurt because the primaries sit in a kind of limbo for far too long.
    The American people are hurt because the left wing media gets a nudge of credibility out of this.

    I could go on, but if your not seeing any of this, then there is no point.

  • JSobieski

    Without getting to the specific subject matter of this diary, I just wanted to point out that as various center-right constituances gnaw at each other in various ways, we tend to throw out a lot of labels which serve to inflame more than shed light.

    Calling Palin a “moderate” is just such an example. Criticize her for things the she does/says. Compliment her for things she does/says. Critizing her, her opponents, or her supports with conclusory labels like moderate, RINO, establishment, etc. is pointless. Why not just stick to the facts?

    Is DeMint a establishment hack because he won’t say that SS is unconstitutional? Isn’t it better to just say you are disappointed?

    Is Palin a moderate because she won’t definitively declare or not? Isn’t it better to say you are frustrated by not nowing whether she is in or not?

    Are social conservatives closet statists who want to ressurect the 1950s? Isn’t it better to acknowledge that the people who are most reliable on fiscal issues tend to be solid social conservatives as well, and just acknowledge that there are outliers everywhere?

    Is Paul Ryan a RINO because he voted in favor of TARP? Or did he simply make a different judgment call that you disagree with?

    Are libertarians anarcho-capitalists seeking to erradicate government itself? Maybe a few, but there are outliers in all groups.

    We would all be better served as a movement if we were more specific in our language and avoide using labels as substitute for arguments/facts. Better to increase the facts, and minimize the labeling.

    Ultimately we all want Obama out in 2013. There is no point in insulting your own voters. We would all be better off if we were less lazy and relied less on proxy characterizations and more on specifics.

    Say what you want about Palin, but I don’t think her politics vascillates from true conservative to moderate or vice versa. She is who she is. She may make different tactical judgments than I would make, but that doesn’t make her a moderate or a different person than she was in 2008.

  • jerry39

    nt

  • acat

    if he felt I had crossed the line.

    Mew

  • streiff

    there is nothing anti-Palin about the front page. We do think a good share of her online supporters are indistinguishable from Paultards but that is a different story.

    You guys object because Palin gets treated like a non-deity and you can’t handle it. You seem to have missed the whole Perry-Gardasil disagreement between me and Erick on the front page. I know that wouldn’t fit your narrative so don’t bother to look it up.

  • Finrod

    When many people don’t even start paying attention to politics until Labor Day 2012 and we’re only just past Labor Day 2011?

    When the first caucus and primary is still about 4 months away?

    What justification do you have for this bizarre thesis?

    If Palin doesn’t run, nobody is going to be talking about her in 2012 at all. If she does run, the voters will decide her fate.

    Trying to claim that Sarah Palin is somehow destroying the election process is the second-silliest thing I’ve read on RedState today.

  • Finrod

    .. attacking conservatives the same way you attack Chris Mathews …

    You should be giving that advice to Erick and Leon, because they’re the ones attacking a conservative in the same way they attack Chris Matthews.

  • phlogiston

    You yourself threatened to have me deleted for… what was it?… being obnoxious? Or for violating some nebulous “standards of a diary vs. comments rule?” Did you ever find that rule Bill? Seeing as how you’re a moderator an all, you should know what the rules actually are. You never did get back to me about that one.

    No, my real offense was posting something negative about the almighty Rick Perry.

    As for chips on shoulders, you really might want to look up the definition of “projection” as it applies to psychology.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

  • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

    nt

  • rightwingnut2

    …”idiots” and “fools’ as some of you have in this thread, I’m fairly certain I would be banned. Right below this comment box, are the words, “Be respectful, or be banned.” Does this not apply to everyone?

    Furthermore, I regularly see threats of banning directed to various commenters. Many of these comments don’t contain the vitriol I see from some of the regulars on this thread.

    Anyway, It’s all too bad. I like Redstate, and used to visit the site often. Erick and some of the others were instrumental in the success in Nov. 2010…as was Sarah Palin. Hopefully, we can get back to fighting the Democrats and RINOs some day.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Disruptive, single issue twits? Yes.

    These idiots show up regularly, see the great diary on screen names. In 2008 it got so bad that any mention of Ron Paul was considered reasonable cause for banning. I won’t be surprised to see the same thing happen to the Shriner element of Palin supporters, namely the idiots who’ve inundated RS over the last few days.

  • azaeroprof

    You’re wasting you’re time here. Banging your head against a concrete wall only dents your head.

    mbeck routinely flouts the “be respectful” guideline, calling Palin supporters idiots, fools, twits, and even regularly includes juvenile comments implying that these folks masturbate over Palin while they type. (This is a shame, as I like beck and enjoy what he writes when he’s not talking to Palin fans. And he can even make a cogent-sounding anti-Palin argument when he wants.) And this is not an occasional slip. Just about every Palin-related diary over the last two years is littered with these types of comments.

    I have yet to find a dictionary that defines “respectful” in a way in which these comments would fit. I have publicly called out these insults, and have even privately asked the moderators for an explanation of how this is “respectful”. The response…crickets. I must, therefore, conclude that he does this with the patent approval, even blessing, of the moderators.

    So my advice, give up this line of reasoning and put forward the most intelligent analysis of Palin’s pros and cons as you can, and worry about convincing those whose last name is not becker.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    It was a great video on tinfoil hat making.

  • acat

    take it up with contact@redstate.com.

    Otherwise, it’s just whining.

    Mew

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    when they attack the commenter, and not the comment.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    nt

  • acat

    There needs to be a balance between time under the klieg lights, which should be minimized, and time building the campaign structure and followers, which should be maximized. Just as it wouldn’t be good to field a team of just all-star outfielders, nor a band of just amazing guitar players. (although seeing Buckethead and Slash and Alexi Laiho on the same stage would be .. amazing) there has to be balance.

    However.

    In the case of Palin, who has been wilting under the klieg lights since she was plucked out of the audience, as it were, there is no such thing as a shorter campaign. All that would be accomplished is reducing the time available to gain the support of the establishment and the general election voters.

    Mew

  • Scope

    isn’t publicaly whining about how awful and unfair RS is, and how awful the moderators are the point for some?

    Isn’t this diary a public flogging of RS because they are so unfair to Palin.

    If they think this is so terrible and unfair, how do you think they would have fared back in the 08 Paul ban on site rules. Sometimes the kinder and gentler approach actually makes it more unfair for the rest of the members.

  • azaeroprof

    nt

  • acat

    at one point you were a Palin supporter.

    Mew

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    I’m not seeing any separation between real objections and gratuitous references to pop culture.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    overexposure. My point is, so what? Why criticize here? No one forces the media to cover her and she does publicize the conservative message. I just don’t get the need to write columns lambasting a, so far, non candidate with admonitions that not having “gotten in” is somehow a disservice to …what I don’t know.

    Nice pic btw

  • Scope

    I’ve often said in the past that she did great stuff with helping get some good people elected in 2010, and that she was great at making the liberals heads explode, but, I never supported her for president.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    I’d support her for President

    Wouldn’t you?

  • JSobieski

    The better question is what they independents will do.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I see this from a lot of people commenting about Romney, e.g. “I’ll vote for him, but I wouldn’t do any work for him.” I suppose this is true to some degree with all of the candidates.

  • Scope

    If she won the primary I’d support her for president. No question. The only one I won’t support is Ron Paul.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    smile

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    I don’t care for Ron Paul. HE’s out there. But I’m not screaming at the top of my lungs that he’s trying to crash the system.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    party. This is the major problem in American politics. But I do think the economic failure is so deep that a hocked oyster could beat Obama. more later

  • acat

    and it produces “negative coattails” on all the down-ticket races.

    But hey, if you really want to vote for her in the primary, I can’t stop you.

    Mew

  • The_Gadfly

    would stock up on precious metals and non-hybrid seeds before heading for Montana ir RP or SP are the nominees.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    That17th Amendment thingy he wrote about in his book? In-state tuition for the children of illegals? A more in-your-face repudiation of Social Security than even Palin offers?

  • http://www.gmsplace.com/ civil truth

    Whether it’s genetic or conditioned reflex, breaking the vote Democrat instinct is difficult and prone to unpredictable relapse.

    Which is one reason I don’t trust generic polls, particularly, because no matter folks tell a pollster (sincerely at the time), when that curtain closes, it’s very hard to challenge the gut reaction.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    And that is, he doesn’t generate hatred as hot as 1000 suns.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    and I am not a Palin hater and think she did a good job as an insurgent on ethics before being Governor and was great on energy and many issues as governor…before she QUIT, which is advantage #1.

    Perry hasn’t quit.
    Perry hasn’t overexposed himself as a FNC commentator.
    Perry has presided over a large state and job creation before and during this depression.
    Perry’s voice.
    more later

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Besides Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, Perez Hilton, and Whoppi Goldberg?

    What’s the threshold for hatred the right should expect? Only few dozen suns?

  • rightwingnut2

    Give it time.

    With his prayer rally, controversial statements in his book, and the fact that he brings back memories of GWB when he speaks, he has the potential to draw the hate of 2000 suns.

    If that happens, will you be done with him too?

  • Scope

    She said if her Dad can’t be president, then she’ll support Romney. LOL Does anybody care? Nope.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    no text

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Palin needs to be more like Meghan McCain, the gay Cheney kid, or the former Bush first ladies who are now pro choice and/or pro gay marriage or something.

    That’s what it will take for the independents to show some love, I guess.

  • Scope

    I’d put her in the same category as non-supportable with Ron Paul.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    I’m still in the undecided camp.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    rather head-in-the-sand.

    Brian Williams was just throwing warm up tosses.

  • rightwingnut2

    Perry’s biggest problem is that he lacks political talent and skill. That’s not something that can be learned or overcome in one election cycle. His style may have worked in Texas, but he’s in the big leagues now. Much like a rookie pitcher in a late September call up from AA, I expect him to get hit hard from here on out.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    That’s a reasonable argument, but as of right now, he’s not toxic like Palin. Having to explain this toxicity to Palin supporters is, quite frankly, tiring. If you don’t already know it, there’s nothing I can say that would convince you, so I won’t even try.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    when he has a commensurate amount of political and personal dung heaped on him.

    Only his will peak close to the election, and Palin’s peaked long ago.

    Give it time.

  • http://www.nighttwister.com NightTwister

    But that’s just me. People are really getting tired of the whole Blame Bush thing anyway.

  • snowshooze

    But those who are adamant in their support of her are unaware of the reality of the situation.
    She is just great at flash and fire and PR..and so many are taking the bait that it is funny.
    All I can say is do your own homework. Don’t let anybody else do it for you. And if you haven’t done your homework, well, just so long as you make sure that everyone doesn’t confuse fact with opinion… I see no harm.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    arguably bad.

    ACES is nothing but huge business tax.

    The phantom pipeline has been a boon to Canada. A Canadian company took about $300MM and has so far produced nothing of substance.

    Her fabled ethics reform was passed by the Democrats in AK, which should tell you a whole bunch, and so far it’s biggest causalty is Palin.

    Then there’s the cut and run act mid-term. All she had to do to make the “ethics” charges go away was ask for and get certification from her AG that her actions fell within the purvue of her job as Governor. She didn’t do that. Why?

    Since she bailed on the job she was elected to do, she’s had any number of nasty personal attacks from the media and she refuses to deal with her attackers directly. Nobody has paid any attention to her positions on anything substantive and she wouldn’t darken the door of a traditional media outlet to discuss her positions. She panders to the red meat base and seems to go out of her way to piss of independents. She won’t get them back.

    You accuse Erick, etal of a lack of courage, I would offer that the real acts of cowardice have been Palin’s. Resigning her job, refusing to deal with media directly. She’s not fit to be POTUS, any more than Newt Gingrich is (for different reasons). “Good” ideas or positions on issues are meaningless without a track record of being able to accomplish important things. Without that, we’ve got nothing more than Obama redux.

  • acat

    Let me try writing it more simply for you.

    DeVine Gamecock pointed out that Palin could be waiting until the last minute to shrink the length of time she and her family have to stand behind a podium and eat the media’s crap sandwich.

    There is a merit to this. Perry, I think, used this technique quite well. For example, Perry is in, but Barbour, Daniels, and Pawlenty, former Governors who were candidates at one point, are now out.

    I countered that this may not apply for candidate Palin because she has been in the media nonstop since she joined the McCain campaign.

    Do you need me to repeat this with shorter words?

    Mew

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    when McCain picked her. Her own candidacy won’t change much in the way of that.

    Perry jumped in once it was clear Romney was getting no traction with conservatives. Every poll said they were waiting for something better.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    acat

  • acat

    The more vocal and less politically seasoned Palin supporters see her as some kind of outsider heroine.

    The more vocal and politcally seasoned Red State commenters (and some Front Page folk) have grown tired of watching the ongoing attempts to defend her non-campaign.

    For this cat, it appears quite simple. Palin is noted for being straightforward, but her followers are resorting to more and more oblique reads of her statements to assure themselves she’s still going to run, and the whole thing is wearying.

    If she wants to run, fine. She has until the end of September, unless she’s going to *really* try something new and try to win the first few primary States as a write-in.

    I don’t think she’s going to run, I think she’s trying to keep her powder – her supporters – dry, for when she can use them to help one of the top four…

    Mew

  • snowshooze

    I start talking AGIA and ACES… I get a blank stare..a bunch of dead air..I mention that she made such a mess of her office with her dealing with some truly unfortunate personal matters, some with very real and glaring points in her favor such as troopergate..but handled so poorly as to exacerbate an already terrible mess…and then try to bury it in the front yard, in broad daylight… with an entire parade going by…
    I do see some similarities to the RP crowd, but in this case, I think I see more blind, uninformed cultish followers. ( Needlessly so, as these things are so easy to verify )
    Not once have I came across someone from the choir that wouls say…”Yeah, ACES was a great tax program. Them Oil companies really deserve to pay more because they are doing so well, and I think that ACES just balances out our risk/reward ratio because of this point and that point…”
    Or… ” Yeah, that AGIA program was just brilliant, and the 500 million we invested with TransCanada is pure common sense, and this investment is going to pay off because of this point and that point”

    They seem to be a bunch of Ostriches with their heads firmly planted in the sand. You pull their head out…show them the truth…. they promptly stuff their heads right back into the sand.

    So anyway…Sarah can run if she wants. It can’t hurt either way.
    She would get gutted on points, and I can only hope their aren’t so many Ostriches out there that they generate some sort of vote splitting 3rd party run that Obama is praying for.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    of getting another executive job for a bit…and a bit ain’t over.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    very persuasive

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    Is it her fault that al the MSM cares about is Levi’s johnson?

  • The_Gadfly

    LOL

    Ironically, even though I have a beef with the Palinistas, I don’t have a problem with ACES. Not because I want to stick it to the oil companies, but because I see no reason the amount of money the government collects from making a natural resource available shouldn’t increase with demand. I think the same thing should happen with all natural resources. I don’t know enough about AGIA to have my own opinion of it.

  • snowshooze

    And she would have a job nobody would love trying to defend her actions in open debate.
    Obama would be easier to get to a debate.
    Anyhow, delay is in her favor in those respects.
    In the interim, she can blithely continue her PR drive, grandstanding, camera hogging from the safe and unassailable position of a private citizen.
    What is bad about waiting is that she needs to line up some dough.
    Private sector and individual contributors who want to start to move the process along have finite resources, and if they have already contributed what they feel they can afford by the time Sarah makes up her mind and gets in…if she gets in..those contributors may at that time be unable to help.
    I don’t know how long her contract with FOX runs, and I do not know the deadline to declare for the GOP nomination, but I think those two dates are the ones to be looking at if one is really interested in when she might declare. .

  • The_Gadfly

    If she wanted to defend those positions, she needn’t go to the MSM to do so. A posting on FaceBook will do just fine.

  • acat

    You found the “Reply To This” button, and you replied with facts.

    Yes, Perry jumped in when it was obvious – based on polling data – that Romney was not rising.

    Is it not equally valid to say that Palin should stay out – based on polling data – because she’s not gained any traction either?

    Mew

  • snowshooze

    He got the AOK from the Missus…
    Isn’t that how it came down?
    I gotta discuss it with my Wife, we aren’t sure we really want to do this…when we are done with that issue… then we will let you know…
    Isn’t that correct?

  • acat

    The problem Palin faces is that she’s had since 2008 to defend this stuff… and she .. .hasn’t. Not really. Posting crap on Facebook is not a full-throated, no-surrender, pistols-at-dawn defense of her record. The movie comes closer…

    Let me try it this way. If Palin has good political instincts, then she would have to know that her efforts to change her polling data have failed, right?

    From that, there are two conclusions. Either she does not actually have good instincts, or she has not actually tried to change her polling numbers.

    Mew

  • acat

    different ending, though.

    I suspect we are not being told the whole truth.

    I accept this, as I am not interested in electing a saint.

    Mew

  • The_Gadfly

    the last hurdle to running, not the first. The polling data showing Romney’s name is the placeholding leftover from last election came first. The Texas legislative session came second. Whether or not his wife would agree came last.

  • http://www.usdebateboard.com usdebateboard

    She doesn’t think the primary process is so lame that it needs to be managed by the chattering class.

  • snowshooze

    And the cameras love her. And she talks about all the good old fashioned values, and common sense..
    I can’t bring myself to watch the Alaska Taxpayer funded movie.
    Yeah, we put in this program to attract the hollywood types, underwriting production costs in order to highlight Alaska and also generate revenues from the business side such as motels, restaurants, all that stuff… and Sarah comes out with this movie almost instantly…
    And I tried to look at the C4P site… I really did..but it was so sickly sweet that I was gagging in less that two minutes. I cannot bear the thought of taking another run at it.
    Yeah… and then there is Facebook. I joined back when I was really interested in what she was up to…
    But after a while, I had all these friends I really didn’t want to see that much… my page was taken over by something called farmville..and rather than throwing out the offenders… I just sorta quit. And twitter? I really can’t figure it out.
    Anyway… you get the point. All the stuff she is and has been doing are all fluff and clutter. She will go on attack, but nowhere do I see her either defending or even discussing any of the Palin mess. That term pretty much the shotgun description of just about everything she did…She has every opportunity to clear up the mess or spin it… you couldn’t buy a more willling media..but she won’t touch it. Won’t bring it up, wont address it..And at this point, she doesn’t even have to. But should she declare…that game will be history.

  • acat

    It means, and I’ll put it in simple terms for you, that what you said does not follow what I said.

    Now, you could have said “She is smart and has a strategy and it will be revealed in time and her poll numbers will go up”. That would follow. It’d be borderline-conspiracy-theory, but .. it would at least follow.

    Mew

  • acat

    Both Sarah Palin and Ron Paul do one thing better than any other candidate this cycle. They bring new people into the process.

    Erick had this to say:

    Ron Paul
    Ron Paul will not be the nominee, but his ability to excite a base of youthful voters is something that continues to impress a lot of people who should know better.

    back in his June 30th horserace piece.

    Palin has a similar ability – she’s bringing people who the GOP had marginalized, who took politics for granted since getting rid of Carter (or for whom Carter is something from history class) …

    All this new blood is great, but it comes with a price…. Neithers’ followers seem to understand that their preferred politician is, first, a politician.

    Mew

  • aesthete

  • snowshooze

    She very nearly, single-handedly, won the election for McCain
    And..
    She didn’t quite win the election for John McCain…
    Personally, I am still struggling between the two.
    I do think that nothing could possibly be worse than ” Obama II, the antichrist”
    Yes they both bring more bodies into the process.
    In my personal opinion, the more one knows about Sarah Palin, the less likely they are to support her. Same goes for Paul.
    So I wonder at those that are brought in, will they actually learn and mature, or will they just be a bunch of groupies?
    Certainly, both will happen to one degree or another, but a lot of what I have seen so far is the groupies.

  • gt80

    80%

    She must have been pretty bad. Why don’t you do your homework?

    http://www.adn.com/2008/09/30/542179/palin-approval-rating-drops-in.html

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    humorous. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    Snowy happens to live in Alaska. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    And her approval is in the tank maybe because she ran out on her job. And all of her signature programs are in or headed to the crapper. And the guy she supported against Murk is lucky he’s not doing federal time.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    And not a very bright one at that. Oops. That’s redundant.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    With most of the Palinistas who seem to post here – and there are notable exceptions – they WILL NOT discuss Palin’s record nor will they discuss any issue as it relates to her. Her record as Governor is off limits, her reason for her resignation is off limits, the programs she initiated as Governor are off limits, her unwillingness to take on her detractors in the media is off limits. Try to address any of those and you’re labeled a h8tr.

    Frankly, the problem isn’t Palin. She’s just another politician with good qualities and warts. The problem is with the idiots who worship the ground she walks above and the water she walks on. Just like the Pinheads4Paul (and RuPaul is a special case, HE is a problem), and [idiot]4prez crowd.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    nt

  • KBDay

    I agree with you on that point–as soon as I learned she wouldn’t finish her term, I figured she’d be on to easier, greener pastures as a media figure/activist. I think she’s capitalized on that very well.

    In 2008 I was very angry with McCain about something mentioned by another commenter–they wouldn’t let Palin be Palin. To me, that’s her strong point: a no-nonsense, non-politico demeanor.

    Unfortunately McCain’s all-over-the-place campaign handlers did not prepare Palin for media in 2008. Many of us did our best to get this point across to powers-that-be but we were unsuccessful.

    I admire Palin very much, but I do not believe that the 2012 race would be a benefit to her in career terms. And I would hate to lose her as a valuable voice working within media and the populace for conservative values.

    That said, I plan to work hard for whoever the GOP nominee is. We have too much at stake to lose this election.

  • deVere

    It reminded me of why I have been absent from this website for almost 4 years.

    My compliments to the management for leaving it up.

    I like Sarah Palin. I was eager for her to announce on September 3rd, but instead she gave us a great speech. I can wait a little while longer.

    I also like Rick Perry, a man who seems better than his record. Is the Governor who attempted TTC/Cintra and Gardasil the same man as the author of “Fed Up”, who candidly tells us that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme? Perhaps he has grown over time. In any event, Rick Perry needs to be vetted, not venerated. We don’t want to find out on the Friday before the 2012 election about a DWI (or something even worse?), as happened with W. Let’s find out now. As this excellent article points out, Sarah Palin has already been exhaustively vetted.

    As for Ron Paul, he is 90% correct and 10% insane. It would certainly be a tragedy for this nation and the world if he was ever elected POTUS. But he also has many good ideas, and should be listened to carefully.

  • acat

    It would be a great springboard for taking McCain’s senate seat when he retires in 2016….

    Mew

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    Mostly because our Gov election is in 14 although I’d have no particular problem with her forgoing the gov race and running for Senate. She “could” even run for Kyl’s seat, although I doubt that go over well with the natives.

  • http://thethinkingvoter.blogspot.com abierubin

    http://www.redstate.com/abierubin/2011/07/05/would-reagan-have-been-able-to-win-in-2012-and-could-palin/

    at the above link, while arguing about her resignation and the frivolous lawsuits she faced which bankrupted her family and caused damage to her state, you mbecker908 didn’t respond to this comment which refudiated your claim.

    Mbecker908 : Read the Law before commenting
    Michael M. Keohane Sunday, July 10th at 6:36AM EDT (link)

    Alaska

  • JSobieski

    He said that all Palin needed to do was have the Alaska Attorney General say or do X (I forget exactly what X is) to have the state of Alaska pay for the legal expenses.

    Your citation above merely says that the charges that “every complaint be fully investigated”. Your assertion did NOT address whether Palin would have to pay for her own defense, or whether the State of Alaska would pay.

    So two questions for you:
    (1) Who drafted and exacted the applicable ethics law in the first place? (I believe it was Palin)
    (2) Could the cost of the litigation be passed along to the state of Alaska.

    Address those two points coherently and we will be getting somewhere.

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    The GOP needs converts and they need to hammer home how Dems, not just amorphous liberals, interest groups, etc are most responsible for failed econ policies. We must call them out by name. I prefer “Liberal Democrats” and we need to follow David Horowitz’s advice and frame issues in moral terms against Dems as being for known failed policies that hurt the poor and middle class.

    more later

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    him? I wonder…

  • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

    ‘ski

    and btw, have been enjoying your unique analyses as a lurker of late

  • gt80

    I do agree with you that people making complete fools of themselves is humorous.

  • azaeroprof

    All the things one could type (or not) to honor the dead, and more Palin ridicule is what rolls off your keyboard?

    Bye.

  • JSobieski

    Or else the people in the white coats come over and take me to my “other home”

    Thank God for football season!

  • The_Gadfly

    I am personally of the belief that if McCain would have let Palin be Palin, we would likely now be saddled with President McCain. But I think McCain sensed that even though she could have won it for him, everybody else would have known that was true too. And that would be the one thing by which McCain could not abide. In the end, I am thankful he didn’t because for most of us the Palin skeletons didn’t start coming out of the closets until well after the election.

  • The_Gadfly

    apologizing for it didn’t make it go away for Perry. It is still there like a dead skunk on the road. It’s just that on balance he’s very obviously done more good than harm for Texas. Palin and Alaska, not so much. Palin and herself,… Well, that’s what leads some people to think she’s only in it for herself.

    And yes, I’m still supporting Cain first, Bachman second, and Perry third. Declared candidates all.

  • Finrod

    I make a comment about the content of the front page, your response is an attack against me and anyone else that has a favorable opinion of Sarah Palin.

    Comparing Palin supporters to Paul supporters IS anti-Palin, no matter how much you try to spin it otherwise. Wouldn’t you see a comparison of Perry supporters to Paul supporters to be anti-Perry? Proxy attacks are still attacks. It’s no wonder that other conservative websites that I read think that RedState is in the tank for Perry, how could they think otherwise what with Perry’s announcement location and the frontpage content lately? Hate to burst your bubble, but what I was saying about the RedState front page is positively mild compared to what others are saying.

    I like RedState a lot (been here over 7 years and counting), but I’m worried that the site is headed down a rabbit hole, and that if anyone but Perry is the nominee, Democrats are going to mine things said at RedState to use to attack our nominee. I’ve seen apologists for Perry using logic that if anyone else tried using it here to defend any other candidate, they’d be laughed out of town.

    And I did see the whole Perry-Gardasil thing, thank you very little. I also saw the most important part of that whole issue be nearly completely ignored here, which is the appearance of impropriety of having a former Perry chief of staff being at the company that Perry was directing a great deal of business to. That’s the issue that Democrats would use to attack Perry should he become the nominee, not the petty crap that you and Erick were arguing about.

    But then again, none of that fits YOUR narrative, so I’m fairly confident that you will ignore all of it, to your detriment and to RedState’s detriment. Too bad.

  • The_Gadfly

    And Neil and I definitely crossed swords a ways back.

  • KBDay

    My post should’ve showed up under Mike Devine’s post–somehow it wandered astray.