I’ve had plans to do something to expose the clowns at the RNC that run this party and game the system to keep liberal Republicans in control of a center right party, but after reading this post ” No Wonder The GOP Is On It’s Knees ,” on the front page, I’ve decided move this project up and challenge all Red Staters to help lead a conservative insurgency against the establishment of the Republican Party!
I’m busy digging up stuff on the “RLC”, “It’s My Party Too” “Republicans for Choice,” “Log Cabin Republicans,” etc. as part of this effort and hope to have a second installment of my blog on the “RMSP” next week…(I hope I didn’t just screw myself with that because every time I publicly set myself a deadline to do a blog I get writer’s bock and can’t complete it)…so. I don’t have time to do that and do what I’m about to ask you all to do….SO HELP ME PLEASE!
My intention has always been to take on the RNC and these arrogant fools as well as the committee structure at the national convention so “we can make these guys famous” (to quote one of their squish nominees). Some of you have time and the ability to access info that I don’t. You can all help me and Red State by finding a roster of the 168 members of the RNC and post it. Each of us can pick one of them at a time, do a bio on each of them complete with their committee positions at the Conventions and their offices within the RNC. Maybe add their scores ACU, CFG and other scores if they can be found so everyone knows who they are, and what they are all about.
This is how we start a Conservative insurgency against the northeastern establishmentarians that have kept us over a barrel since Reagan! It is our ignorance that has kept us slaves to these people!
Martin Luther King Jr. said, “Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
With this in mind, I’d say we’ve had a “sincere ignorance,” of how our slave drivers have kept us captive to their liberal views,(in the way of believing our liberal leadership when they tell us we need to tolerate their liberal proclivities and demand we pander to moderates and liberals in the center to win elections)!
We’ve been “conscientiously stupid” in that we’ve let them continue to control us despite the expansion of the “Great Society” under Nixon and Ford from 1968 through 1976, and the disastrous elections that occurred in 1976, 1992, 1996, 2006, and now 2008.
I love the quote from I don’t know where, “Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.” I would say it’s time to fix our ignorance and avoid the stupidity of continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result…Its time to know our enemy within the party and stop being controlled by him.
Another example of our “sincere ignorance,” would be refusing to learn how to participate in the convention process and influencing the party by finding out how you and other Red Staters can start working at the precinct conventions and work through the local, state and national convention system each election cycle. This needs to be done to short circuit the networking system these liberals use to thwart us at every turn.
My second Challenge is that you find out how you get started in conventions and caucuses at the local and state levels and write about it here, at TMR and any other forum so we can get as many like minded individuals as possible involved in the process.
The only way we will ever get control of this Party is for conservatives to participate at each level of the convention process and get our people into the power structure at the RNC.
The way this works for the Rockefeller crowd is they have liberals at the top and they work to make sure only liberal Republicans are promoted into the working apparatus of the Party behind them. They promote liberal Republicans to the level below them…and so on until they have control of the party from the precincts of the party all the way to the top.
We need sleepers who can play the part of squishes and get promoted. Once at the next level they can promote conservative members including more sleepers who will leap frog them and move more conservatives up to even higher levels. We need to vote out chairmen wherever we can and continue to network with each other at each level of the convention process…We need to work on getting positions on committees within the party and not allow the old guard to protect their turf by hand picking members for the platform committees, the credential committees and every other controlling committee in the party.
We also need to stay engaged in the process in off years and congressional election years. Most conservatives who participate in the conventions show up every presidential election and are nowhere to be seen the rest of the time leaving the party to those who do not have our best interests at heart in control for the following four years and into perpetuity. This self destructive behavior must end if conservatives are ever to take control of this party and maintain it!
When you go to any party function, don’t just stay to yourselves…talk to as many people as possible and exchange contact info with everyone you find who are three legged Conservatives…stay in touch in off years and move to control your conventions as much as possible each election cycle…and above all…Regularly meet with contacts from each of your conventions, whether it be local, district, state, or national and discuss strategy for moving up and gaining control over your sphere of influence whether it be on bulletin boards, blogs, internet chats or in person. When votes and motions are brought forward at conventions or at party headquarters, compromise as little as possible as you work within the system, but be careful and don’t kill your chances to move up and do more later.
So…Who’s ready to get in the game and go to work?
Jeff Emanuel
Neil Stevens
Caleb Howe
Daniel Horowitz
With all due respect ...
exitsfunnel Friday, November 28th at 2:06PM EDT (link)weren’t you a Huckabee guy during the primaries? He’s about as squishy as they come.
-exits
I was...but not because I was in the tenk for him...
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 2:13PM EDT (link)I saw him as the lesser of a hole bunch of evils…I really wanted Fred to succeed but he didn’t and I disliked or distrusted the rest of the candidates more than the Huckster…That being said, as it is at this point…I wouldn’t vote for Huckabee for dog catcher now!
That’s all beside the point now and has absolutely nothing to do with this diary…so what’s your point beyond snarking when you have nothing constructive to say?
Fair Enough
exitsfunnel Friday, November 28th at 2:19PM EDT (link)I really wasn’t trying to be snarky so much as just point out that for all of the talk about RINOs -vs- ‘True Conservatives,’ a lot of that stuff is in the eye of the beholder.
-exits
We have to give Ace credit.
mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 2:25PM EDT (link)As a long running debate participant on the subject of Huckabee with Ace, he saw the light vis Huck and made no bones about it when he did. And, while he was still supporting Huckabee, he made good arguments for his support and responded to factual arguments in a rational manner. Which is more – a lot more – than I can say for the vast majority of Huckabee supporters who showed up here (including one recent advocate). By and large they seem to pop out of the same dumpster that houses most of the RonPaul™ folks.
I’m always willing to pay attention to any of Ace’s posts because he’s earned my respect as a thoughtful guy who both makes and evaluates good arguments on a reasonable and rational basis.
So Aceintx you are asking us to be Republican Citizen Soldiers....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 2:27PM EDT (link)Well I am all in and you all can start with your RNC Chair…..let me do some hunting around on VA’s and I will get back to your post with what I find out!
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Absolutely
exitsfunnel Friday, November 28th at 2:43PM EDT (link)He even mentioned his change of heart in his response to me and I meant to acknowledge it in my second post but forgot. So, ace, consider it officially acknowledged and no doubt that this undercuts my first post in the thread (at least as it applied to you specifically).
-exits
Let me enlighten you where the RINO vs True Conservative arguement in concerned from my perspective...
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 2:44PM EDT (link)I limit the term RINO to apply to people like Christy Todd Whitman, Arlen Specter, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Chuck Hagel, and the rest of the fools who not only hold different positions from Conservatives but who go out of their way to be as disrespectful, vicious, and bigoted toward conservatives as Possible…
They’re the ones who lie in wait for the most opportune time to pull the rug out from under the majority of the party at the most damaging time for the goals we are working toward and the majority of the party who are working toward those goals.
They are the ones who lord it over the majority of this party and hold the reigns of power by way of networking and kissing the rings of the country club crowd that has preceded them…
They’re the ones that think the world owes them something because they were privileged enough through their old wealth families to attend Harvard, Yale, or one of the other elite universities that hold anyone who went to public universities for the surfs who exist only to serve them.
Finally, They’re the ones who think they can win by acting like our mortal enemies in the Democrat Party and refuse to paint a bold and bright contrast with those who would enslave us to their socialist/communist/internationalist/collectivist ideology and choose to collude with the socialist Democrats against us at every turn.
Clear enough?
Thanks mbeck
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 2:47PM EDT (link)nt
5^^^
mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 2:54PM EDT (link)And I would add, from my perspective, that while I’m OK with any of those you’ve mentioned being part of the Party, and I’m willing to support most of them for lower offices, nary a one of them should have any place in the leadership of the Party nor should they have a say in drafting policy.
For instance, I’m >>gag<< OK with Specter being the Senator from PA (although I’d prefer Toomey), but he should be on the Judiciary Committee, either as the Ranking Member and certainly not as the Chair. His pathetic performance over the last eight years should cost him his seat.
Thanks Jaded...abd absolutely...Citizen shoulders is a good analogy...
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 3:02PM EDT (link)We need to take on the attitude that they don’t attack one of us without attacking us all. When one of us hears the sound of distant battle we need to gather our arms, organize our forces and run to the sound of the guns.
Probe the enemy’s (our RINO masters) defenses…look for his weaknesses and exploit them when he least expects it…once defeated…if he refuses to join the team and be a team player…he should be driven like the dog he is into the Democrat’s camp to remain forever, where he belongs.
It’s time to seize the day. Seize this moment and take the reigns of power back from those who would subvert our cause and frustrate our will. They are a minority in this party and can’t be allowed to collude with the enemy and undermine our cause any longer!
Hoo Ahh!
Amen to that brother....that is quite an expression...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 3:12PM EDT (link)of the battle we are about to do with the squishes in this party! I was truly moved by it!
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How to find your local states' Representatives
UnderCoverGuy (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:18PM EDT (link)Nice article Ace. Here’s some help for everyone.
There are 168 members who will be voting to decide the next RNC Chairman at the RNC Winter Meeting on January 20, 2009. There are three members from each state who are able to vote, the state Chairman, the state National Committeeman and the state National Committeewoman. To locate the names of who your local state members are, perform the following steps:
Go to the National GOP Website – States page and select the state in which you live, which will bring up all three party member names for the state selected.
There are 50 states plus DC, include also Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands. Three members voting from each location makes a total of 168 members who will decide our next RNC Chairman.
————————————
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
————————————
The Declaration of Independence
Here is the skinny on my VA Chairperson...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:19PM EDT (link)Jeff Frederick has a 74 percent ACU rating…didn’t find anything on the Club for Growth but I will call them on Monday…put it in my calendar. Let me just say it was Jeff Frederick who made the comment about Obama and Osama having friends who bombed the Pentagon….I don’t know him BUT I know I like him!
Morton Blackwell – National Committeeman
I couldn’t find his ACU rating but that may be because he has been on the board since 1979…same as above on the CFG but will ask them on Monday!
How I wish they could all be this way
Kathy Terry – National Comittewoman – I cannot find anything on this woman on the net…..so I will call on Monday and find out what I can find out!
WE CAN AND WE WILL KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE…..it’s a new day dawning you two faced Rockefeller Republicans….and the base is taking back the party…and oh it feels so good.
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Hey my conservative friends can we get some RECOMMENDS over heah ;-)
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:25PM EDT (link)nt
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I think you meant should not be on the judiciary in which case I agree with you wholeheartedly
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:38PM EDT (link)nt
Great!!!! now get with as many conservatives as you can in VA and work on them to represent you or get out of the way!
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:47PM EDT (link)nt
Oh...and find out where someone who's never been to a convention would start out
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:49PM EDT (link)on their way up the convention structure in VA.
And blog on it...
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:51PM EDT (link)BAHHH!!! not sure where my head is today!
Thanks for the info...I wouldn't have known where to start...
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 4:56PM EDT (link)Can you do a blog on it? Maybe include a list of them? and also do a how to on getting started in the convention system from your state for those who don’t know where to start?
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh. Thanks Ace.
mbecker908 (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 5:03PM EDT (link)It’s good to deal with folks who know what I thought I said. :>)
:>)
AceInTX (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 5:10PM EDT (link)nt
I'd love to do a diary on it...
UnderCoverGuy (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 5:51PM EDT (link)…but at the moment I am working on something pretty big that is using up a lot of my time. Maybe at some point in the near future I’ll be able to put the details together for everyone and post them but at the moment I won’t be able to do it. Hopefully people will go to the link above, find their local state voting representatives and contact them so they know who they support as RNC Chairman. I personally support Michael Steele for numerous reasons but everyone should call and make their voices heard.
Thanks
————————————
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
————————————
The Declaration of Independence
your wish
David Hinz (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 6:10PM EDT (link)and all that jazz
The Minority Report — The HinzSight Report — TMRB.tv — MFOB “Miss Tagart, do you know the hallmark of the second-rater? It’s resentment of another man’s achievement.”
I'm gonna see what I can do here in South Flori-duh.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 6:21PM EDT (link)I’ll try and find the good peeps down this way to run ‘em up here at RS for big-time kudos and support.
Then we can locate “the others” and help start sending those abject schmucks packing.
Hey DaveInFla….. can you handle upstate ?
Cheers !
Mr. Hinz do you mean....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Friday, November 28th at 6:28PM EDT (link)Unified Patriots – How-To:
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???
itsonlywords (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:10AM EDT (link)I’m sorry, I’m confused. What am I supposed to do right now? So I found out who from my state will be voting for the RNC chair. What am I supposed to do with that information?
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
I'm busy digging up stuff on the "RLC",
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:39AM EDT (link)when you say the “RLC” are do you mean the Republican Liberty Caucus? If so, you will be attracting as many enemies as friends. I don’t want to say any more on this because we have always got on, and I want to be sure what you are talking about.
anyone who takes on libertarians in our party is taking on me. Anyone who think “Rockefeller” Republicans (a group that went away long ago) are in any way connected or similar to Goldwater-Reagan Republicans is either totally confused or trying to smear through lies and misdirection.
I will wait for your explanation Ace. But I will say self proclaimed Socons like Bush, Frist, Kyl, et al ran this party into the ground. Sure they had many forces against them, but libertarian-conservatives, and the antiquated “Rockefeller Republicans” where not the problem. one addendum, many in Bush’es wing took on Rockefeller type fiscal policies, is that what you mean?
Molon Labe!
We must tell all conservatives to contact their county GOP
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:41AM EDT (link)and get on their mailing list for events and get the dates, tims and places for PRECINCT meetings. That’s where it starts.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Call them and TELL them who you want to be the RNC Chairman!
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:42AM EDT (link)I called mine and was stone cold serious that if they locally and nationally wanted my donations they would seriously consider the person I most wanted.
Now I want Michael Steele and the other 3 members of my family do as well as do a lot of my friend so that is what we told them.
Think of it like calling the Senate during the Comprehensive Immigration (AMNESTY) bill and knowing WE WERE HEARD.
These insiders are so unaccustomed to being called and told who WE the base want and what we want that massive calling in our states by WE THE PEOPLE to these 168 “voters” WILL make an impression!
So get to it on Monday my man and tell your folks who you want and OBTW find out what you can about them and post that information here. WE need to know who they are and get to the ROOT of the problem…..it’s our party and we are NOT going to let a few tell the many the direction of this party EVER AGAIN!
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I don't know.
itsonlywords (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:48AM EDT (link)I don’t have an opinion on who should be RNC chair. I don’t know enough about any of the candidates to make an informed decision and I don’t really know how to find out…I’m not even sure what I would want to know. AND I don’t know how to find any information about these people. They are all people I’ve never heard of. I feel useless.
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
You are not useless just go out and pull up their names...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:52AM EDT (link)see what they have to say about policy and look on youtube for video’s of speeches they have given. I have done a diary on Steele myself.
Than pull up the three people from your local GOP the Chairman, the Committeeman and Committeewoman and pull up their American Conservative Union rating or for short ACU and than their Club for Growth rating or CFG and see where they stand and let us know. We can do this Paul WE MUST DO THIS!
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I swear I'm not trying to be difficult.
itsonlywords (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:15AM EDT (link)What do I do when I get to the ACU website? or the Club for Growth website? Are those only for people who have been in the US Senate or House?
And by the way, I’m Paula, not Paul! ;o)
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
Here you go.
Diogenes314 (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:55AM EDT (link)American Conservative Union
Club for growth
Republican Leadership Council
Diogenes314 (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:02AM EDT (link)I’m pretty sure is who he’s refering to.
Thanks
itsonlywords (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:14AM EDT (link)I found the websites, I just wasn’t sure how to find the information I was looking for. I looked at their ratings but I only found ratings for people who had served in the US Senate and House.
The people from my state (Washington) who will be voting for RNC Chair have never served in the US Senate or House. I’m not even sure if a couple of them have been elected to public office in Washington. Or to anything for that matter. I have never heard of them. I’m not having much luck finding any information in their local newspapers.
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
Ok, I hope you are right
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:35AM EDT (link)you probably are. I have a short fuse when people call out libertarian-conservatives, Ace and I have argued this before. The RLC, RLC is part of our solution, they are not the problem.
Molon Labe!
Same thing here
Diogenes314 (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:51AM EDT (link)I just went ahead and plugged the names into google to get a sense of who they were. If there are any other residents of the People’s Republic of Kali…
Board of directors of Kali GOP
OK paul than just call and ask them where they ....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 8:41AM EDT (link)stand on issue’s particular to you…..I could find nothing on my committeewoman so I will be doing that on Monday!
If we don’t take these limited steps we will right back in the same place we were in 06 and 08 and lets be honest if Americans didn’t love their country so much and hated the anti-war left in 04 because they are despicable we probably would have lost seats then!
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5, adding that RHINO-ness should be evaluated on a sliding scale
JSobieski (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 8:58AM EDT (link)For example, Lindsey Graham wouldn’t be a RHINO if he was from Maine or Pennsylvania. Similarly, McCain wouldn’t be such a albatross if he wasn’t from the Red-Red state of Arizona.
The problems with our party are not the Chris Shays or the Peter Kings as it is the Lindsey Grahams and John McCains.
Lincoln Chafee was a category all too himself because he literally was a Republican in name only.
Chuck Hagel is the RHINO of the century, coming from a red-red state, and yet making McCain look right wing.
Did you know that China has been losing manufacturing jobs since 1995? For the specific data, see Table 1 in the following link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/07/art2full.pdf
5, adding that RHINO-ness should be evaluated on a sliding scale
JSobieski (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 8:59AM EDT (link)For example, Lindsey Graham wouldn’t be a RHINO if he was from Maine or Pennsylvania. Similarly, McCain wouldn’t be such a albatross if he wasn’t from the Red-Red state of Arizona.
The problems with our party are not the Chris Shays or the Peter Kings as it is the Lindsey Grahams and John McCains.
Lincoln Chafee was a category all too himself because he literally was a Republican in name only.
Chuck Hagel is the RHINO of the century, coming from a red-red state, and yet making McCain look right wing.
Did you know that China has been losing manufacturing jobs since 1995? For the specific data, see Table 1 in the following link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/07/art2full.pdf
Hey Doc it is the Republican Leadership Council...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 9:20AM EDT (link)Here is the link and the one thing they agree to is that they want to keep more money in their pockets and you be anywhere you want to be on social issues…..ie what I like to call a Rockefeller Republican…..a rich person who is socially liberal BUT LOVES their money and expects to get tax cuts!
You don’t need to believe in anything but the MONEY HONEY
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Finally, some sense! Thanks, GC
Achance (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 10:53AM EDT (link)There aren’t many here who are going to be influential in the selection of an RNC head or even a state or district chair or committee person. The “ground game” starts at ground level. Trying to insert yourself at the state or national level is going to get a “who the Hell are you?” reaction – unless you bring a stack of checks.
Leaving aside interest groups, there are only three ways to have political power: 1) successfully run for office, 2) be closely associated with someone who holds office, and 3) work your way up through the party organization by demonstrating an ability or organize and deliver votes, money, or both. Note: being conversant in political philosophy is NOT on the list.
If you don’t know who your precinct, county, or district chair is, you don’t need to know who the head of the RNC is, because you’re not a part of the Party process. It is irrelevant whether you’re a so-con, fis-con, def-con, all three, or an outright RINO. In fact, I’ll take a RINO who works or writes checks over any of the others who does nothing but pest my meetings about policy, or, worse, never even comes to meetings but calls or writes me about policy causing me to say, “who the Hell is this guy?”
It is totally unglamorous and totally boring – just look at how long any diary on nuts and bolts government or politics lasts here. Sitting here in your bathrobe plotting cleansing the Party accomplishes exactly nothing. The people who’ll decide who’s running things are the people who organize precincts, districts, and states and who bring organization, people, and money into the decision making process.
In Vino Veritas
and OBTW I meant Paula....my apologies :-0
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 12:21PM EDT (link)nt
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Well...
itsonlywords (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 12:25PM EDT (link)I did manage to find out that one of my guys, Jeff Kent, is (was?) vice-chairman of the Western Region of the RNC…I’m thinking that pretty much for sure makes him one of “them” as opposed to one of “us?”
Still digging.
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
Disarray.
itsonlywords (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 12:30PM EDT (link)I have contacted my county GOP and they seem to be in fairly dire straits; however, the chairman, at least, sounds optimistic (even though she will not be running for reelection).
I also contacted the chairman of my congressional district and after a brief exchange of e-mails, he stopped responding to me. I don’t know what’s up with that.
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
WA is tough!
Achance (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 12:48PM EDT (link)You have SEA/King County and everything else. Anchorage is the 800 # gorilla here, but there is at least some balancing if the rest of the State can gang up on them. Doesn’t really seem possible in WA.
We had Rossi here a few years back for our Lincoln Day Dinner. He was amazed at the kind of turnout we could gin up in even a Blue/Purple town like Juneau. ‘Course, over half the crowd weren’t Republicans at all, but we were in power, had been for a long time, and looked likely to be in power for awhile, so even unions and greenies had to make nice with us and give us money for a grip and grin.
I think I saw that the Rs had gotten control of one body of your Leg. You’ll find that is the best cure for “disarray.” The only trouble is you’ll attract a lot of “born again Republicans,” so you’ll have to watch to see who’s really with you and who’s just an opportunist.
In Vino Veritas
Don't even get me started on King County.
itsonlywords (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 12:54PM EDT (link)I am just over the county line in Snohomish County and the Seattle liberalism has overtaken us here and is creeping every northward.
Republicans don’t control either the House or the Senate right now, although I think we briefly controlled one of them in the 90s.
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
I don't necessarily agree...
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:03PM EDT (link)There should be a sliding scale yes…but if a blue state Republican put’s him or herself in the category as those who viciously attack and slander the base and the Conservative leadership of the party or scheme behind the scenes like a Christy Todd Whitman or George Voinovich or the RMSP crowd working to undermine the agenda of the majority of the Party or work to undercut the message…or deliberately time their betrayals in such a way as to cause maximum damage to the particular bill being debated, the particular Goal being sought, or the party as a whole…Or vote for such unconstitutional provisions as McCain(I still Can’t believe he was our nominee…Spitting)Fiengold, or the Gang of 14 then they are RINOs no matter what state they are from…
Ther National RNC Membership from Texas...I'll add bios later...or hopefully another loan star conservative can do it
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:09PM EDT (link)Ms. Tina Benkiser
State Chairman, TX Republican State Committee
PRESENT
PREVIOUS
RNC ACTIVITY
Mr. Bill Crocker
National Committeeman, TX Republican State Committee
PRESENT
PREVIOUS
RNC ACTIVITY
Ms. Cathie Adams
National Committeewoman, TX Republican State Committee
PRESENT
PREVIOUS
RNC ACTIVITY
[+]Mr. Eric Opiela
Executive Director, TX Republican State Committee
While I'm at it...do they have officers and who holds the leaderhip positions in this group of 168?
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:12PM EDT (link)nt
Find out who the voting members are from your state and find out as much as you can about them and blog on it...be sure to put your state's tag on it
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:15PM EDT (link)so the Directors can add the post to your state’s info
No Doc...You know...I forgot they use that acronym
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:17PM EDT (link)I’m speaking of the Republican Leadership Committee…they’re the liberal Republican version of the DLC…
Ace, take out the indents.
NightTwister (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:24PM EDT (link)That will keep your text from doing that on a bullet list.
“Baseball fits America well because it expresses our longing for the rule of law while licensing our resentment of law givers.” ― Major League Commissioner of Baseball A. Bartlett Giamatti
Jaded...If you all want to tell them who you want as RNC that's fine..
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:31PM EDT (link)But my reason for wanting everyone to do this is so we all have a source to go to and so we know who our current leadership is….it’s to shine the disinfecting light of knowledge on them so we know who to blame for the upcoming primaries which they’ve already set up to be a repeat of the last one…i.e. front loaded with Big Blue States with a compressed schedule so conservatives won’t be able to get traction and consolidate behind on candidate.
I can tell you all…that unless conservatives get behind one candidate early and stay with them till the end we will have another squish as our nominee.
The other thing I need someone to do is find out what you can about the convention…What are the committees and who is on each one…
For those of you who don’t know how the conventions work…There is a platform committee that decides what amendments to the platform are accepted and forwarded to the next level for consideration…so I can right an amendment and if it’s approved at my precinct convention it is forwarded to the Senate District Convention…A platform committee controls whether my or someone Else’s amendment is considered on the floor of the Senate Convention. If it is adopted it then goes to the State Level…
We need to know who is on the national platform committee so we know who has influence on what motions are actually allowed to be considered at the National Convention.
The other reason this is so important is we need to know who the dumb asses are that came up with the idea of putting platform motions out on the internet to allow non party members to have input on our platform and undercut the party activists who attend conventions and put their hearts into this process. These idiots deserve to be fired!
Well Ace WE have to start here because I personally have a....
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:47PM EDT (link)Governer’s race here in VA BUT than we ALL have 2010 so this is our first BIG test of how much we can influence a PROCESS that WE NEVER have attempted to involve ourselves with.
Good Lord man IF we had been more forceful WE wouldn’t have crying whining Boehner running the House right now.
So for ME I just see this particular RNC Chairman issue a “GET OUT THE VOTE”….if WE cannot even can the insider’s enclave to PUT someone of substance heading the RNC WE will know that WE will never be listened to. I see some want Flake or other’s like him running it BUT this has to be a FULL TIME JOB to GET REAL CONSERVATIVES running and someone who will NOT get involved in the primaries in the STATES!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Let me kowalski myself and say for a lot of people this is a GREAT...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 1:51PM EDT (link)first step at finding who is doing what in their states…..this is a learning tool…..a class on civics if you will…There are people like you and me and lot of political junkies on here who might know who to call and where to go BUT there are a lot who are on here and America C2C and other sites that my husband and I have been populating with this information who are junkies
I get where you want to go BUT lets see what we can get done on this issue right in the beginning of the New Year and hopefully we will have someone we can work with in the RNC and move on to the next level of taking BACK the party!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Doc...I agree with the RLCfor the most part...
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:02PM EDT (link)We’ve indeed discussed this before…The only times I’ve locked horns with them…or you is when they/you take an anti SoCon slant.
As for Bush/Frist/Kyle…you won’t get any argument from me…and this is one of the other areas we lock horns on and that’s the broad brush you insist on painting all SoCons with…I’m a Natural Law Conservative which means I’m for the maximum Liberty possible undergerded by a strong moral fabric that eliminated the need for Government to over reach and over regulate when free men refuse to govern the darker nature of there character and natures!
Piece brother…we are on the same side for the most part.
:>)
RPV Chair.
Scope (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:10PM EDT (link)Here is some additional info on the Republican Party of Virginia Chairman.
http://virginiavirtucon.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/klinge-calls-for-fredericks-resignation-as-rpv-chairman/
Have to differentiate between votes a different way and leads the opposition
JSobieski (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:16PM EDT (link)McCain and Graham also suffer worse under that criteria. Let Snowe do what she needs to do—you don’t see her acting like McCain by leading a “third way”
Did you know that China has been losing manufacturing jobs since 1995? For the specific data, see Table 1 in the following link: http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2005/07/art2full.pdf
Morton Blackwell Virginia
Scope (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:23PM EDT (link)Info on Morton Blackwell who is one of the Virginia GOP voters.
http://www.leadershipinstitute.org/AboutUS/?PageID=Morton
That's ne of the things I'm asking for...
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:31PM EDT (link)I want those who know in each state to blog on where you start to get involved with the conventions…I said so in the OP.
For instance…In Texas, the way you get in the game is by waiting till the polls close in your precinct, (Where you cast your vote, usually a school…they post which precinct will be conducted in what room on the front door), Before you go read the state and national platform and if you have an issue that’s not covered you write and amendment to be considered at the precinct convention. Once at the precinct convention you vote to adopt or reject each person’s amendment and select delegates to the Senate District Convention where the amendments from the precinct are discussed and adopted and delegates are selected to the State Convention and likewise there for the national convention. I’ll blog this on Texas…and want everyone to do it till we have a base of knowledge on how everyone on Red State can start doing more and exerting more influence.
Everything you are calling for here is what I'm asking for
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:39PM EDT (link)Yeah I’d like to know who the top dogs are and what they are about and it’s a part of the OP…but I also put in my blog that I want Red Staters to figure out who to get involved in conventions at the local level and move up the chain.
If knowledge is power then we must learn…those that know need to teach…(hint). You could do a blog on how to raise funds and bring it money to get us started Achance…I’d love to profit from your knowledge and experience and frankly we don’t get enough of it from you…we more often than not get a slap down on why something we suggest won’t work and then crickets.
With all do respect, can we count on more from you on this?
Saidly there is a lot of turf protection that goes on...as Achance mentions...you get the, "who the hell are you reaction
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:46PM EDT (link)when you start…You’ve got to start at the precinct level and volunteer for committees, or to work on checking in delegates…This is part of what I’m asking for…find out from your party where you start and post it here.
I’d also like to be able to share any scuttlebutt on the people at each level so we can learn who the characters are…who the weak links are and work our way to being in a position to take them down.
Ace, I did a diary on local involvement
Achance (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 2:58PM EDT (link)back on Nov. 22, that Moe put on the front page. It got a total of 7 comments and passed into oblivion, as do most posts and diaries on actual political work.
I actually don’t think there’s a hope in Hell of Republicans accomplishing a thing on the National level in the near future. So, all I care about is my precinct, district, and state, and as I said in that diary, I’m going to do it the old-time Democrat way with just plain old pothole fixing and skid greasing. We need to hold on to our states and protect ourselves from a fraudulent census in ’10; that’ll give us plenty to do. If we don’t get reapportioned out of existence, maybe we can capitalize on some Democrat over-reaching in ’12, ’14′, and 16. Unless someone absolutely magnetic comes along or something catastrophic happens, we’re in the wilderness at the National level for a long time.
In Vino Veritas
Many of these guys wont have ACU ratings but if they do...post them
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:15PM EDT (link)Read through this thread there are som good posts here on where you start…Call your party offices and find out where you start to get involved in the convention process…any info that you can provide is usefull
"who are not junkies"....jeeesh....!
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:26PM EDT (link)nt
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Please understand...I'm not undercutting you...what you want to do isn't outside what my goal is here...
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:28PM EDT (link)The RNC Chair is important…though I don’t agree that Steele is the best choice due to has past comments on abortion and his prior associations with the most liberal members of our party…but by all means…do as you will…
My goal with the OP however is as I’ve stated…get people started on the lower level of your state and work your way up. Educate people in your sphere of influence how they can get involved. Each of the goals I’ve enumerated are as important as the RNC…it’s our ignorance of the process and who the decision makers are that has allowed them to control us all these years…let’s shine the light on the cock roaches and watch them scatter!
Misunderstand I mean
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:29PM EDT (link)nt
We agree here
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:33PM EDT (link)nt
We agree...my goal is to get people who don't know how looking how to get started
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:40PM EDT (link)that’s my first priority here…exposing and knowing everything we can about those who are the decision makers in the party is priority #2. Learning how the convention process works and who decides on open primaries and primary schedules and other info is #3
It is a start…and an education tool…exactly…and it was my intention to be so when I wrote it.
I realize short term influence is out of reach
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 3:57PM EDT (link)This is why I want to make a start now..getting as many people starting at the local level…even if it means taking out the trash and mopping floors so we can grow our influence for the future…if we don’t start now…we’ll never get where we need to go…
As for the stuff you posted…I’d like to get the directors indulgence to start an education section which would stay up permanently and could be accessed by those of us who’d like to learn, so people with your level of experience to post “how to” info and educate us.
As for me personally…I’d like to start a dialogue with you…even if it’s through email on how to fund raise…I’ve been working on a 521 nad have things figured out on how to incorporate and am now at the point of raising seed money to get it started. I have no clue where to start finding a couple donors who’d be willing to get us started!
Thanks night...I copied it direct and didn't edit
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 4:00PM EDT (link)nt
Visualize panhandling; will do politics for money.
Achance (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 4:25PM EDT (link)I hate it! Find somebody with money who will give it to you because you’re you or who wants the government to do something and you can convince them you’ll get it to do it. To me, it is a thoroughly distasteful undertaking even for far more noble undertakings than politics. Both our high school football team and our HS/Legion baseball teams were funded by donations when my oldest was into HS sports; I spent a lot of time begging for money. Helped a lot that the baseball coach was the Governor’s COS, though.
In Vino Veritas
Here is some more info for noVA....
ww1posterfan (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 4:44PM EDT (link)By the way AChance, I read your diary entry and it motivated me to act. I have researched the GOP party organization for Prince William County. See the following link, http://www.pwcgop.org/. I have also contacted my district chair and offered my services. I was unable to attend the first post election meeting, but have it on my calendar for Dec. Lastly, I have an email into Jeff Frederick, Chairman of the VA GOP, as referenceed above. He is my district (52nd District) delegate. I have met Jeff personally on a few occasions. While I may not agree with him on every issue, he is extremely responsive and has been a good delegate. The other members of the VA state party leadership are the Honorable Morton Blackwell (previously mentioned by Scope) and Mrs. Kathy Terry. The Republican Party of VA website is www.rpv.org. As I learn more, I will post it.
“A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.” Bertrand de Jouvenel
“Hold power accountable.” John W. Garner
Money for Ace
WHAT (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 6:33PM EDT (link)For thirty years I did nothing but raise money for GOP candidates; local, county, state and federal candidates.
Here’s some basic advice for personal fundraising;
Of course there is also direct mail fundraising, online fundraising, event fundraising, but that’s another story for another day. Hope this helps you.
An issue or two doesn't make you a RINO
jeffreywturner (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 8:15PM EDT (link)Look, we have to differentiate between moderate Republicans and RINO’s. Licoln Chafee was a RINO, not John McCain. McCain’s preening for the MSM in opposing Bush was more a personal thing than an indication of liberalism. His voting record for his entire career puts him around the middle of the GOP caucus. Chafee on the other hand did not agree with the GOP on ANY major contentious issues. That to me is a RINO.
Furthermore, and to piggyback on some of the comments below, we can use moderate Republicans and should be happy to have them. We just don’t need to have the pro-activism Republicans (like Specter) on the judiciary committee, or McCain on the Finance Committee (though the Budget Committee is perfect for him). Put Specter on Finance and McCain on Judiciary, problem solved.
“Life is too short, can’t we all just eat pork and kill some terrorists?”
Why are you attacking Jon Kyl, Doc?
Martin Knight (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 9:02PM EDT (link)[n/t]
Sorry. I cannot accept your challenge.?
Mark Kilmer (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 9:21PM EDT (link)I am a conservative Republican. I view the Republican Party the way Ronald Reagan saw it, and the conservatives in the party are in much better shape than they were in 1980.
As a Reaganite, I see the abject folly in attacking the party apparatus. This can only do bad things for the party and thus for conservatism.
I will spend my time supporting conservatives and, when I feel the urge, berating liberal Democrats. I will support conservatives at the RNC, but most importantly, I will support conservative candidates.
We’ve got a bigger problem than bogeymen hiding under the bed.
Kyl?
Diogenes314 (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 9:27PM EDT (link)I missed that one. If you think Kyl is some sort of moderate/rino/squish/whatever the huck you want to call them, we might have a problem. Speaking as and Arizona expatriate in the People’s Republic of Kali, I’ll trade you Feinstein, Boxer, and a player to be designated later for Kyl and a future draft pick.
But, Mark, wouldn't a bogeyman purge
Achance (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 11:12PM EDT (link)be a lot of fun? And we could just type and type about it.
In any organization, you work your way up, take your lumps, and pay your dues. Occassionally, usurpers, interlopers, and even revolutionaries take over; usually they are just irritants. Some things need to change at the leadership lever, but the best way to change them is to go to work at whatever level you work and back good candidates or be a good candidate.
In Vino Veritas
ditto - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 11:32PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
McCain is the RINO's RINO...
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 11:34PM EDT (link)He’s the chief RINO…He’s been behind or a huge part of every bad piece of legislation that has come out of the Republican Party…see McCain Fiengold, Amnesty and McCain Lieberman, Global Cap & Trade etc…
I also point you yo my other qualifier for RINNness and that is potting his betrayals and timing them in such a way as to cause the Republican Caucus the most damage. See the gang of 14!
McCain isn’t a RINO?…
Please!
for the most part lol :)
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 11:36PM EDT (link)well we are on the same side because the left hates both of us
I am not up for it right now, but we should have a bit more debate/discussion on the idea of being anti-socon and what it means to be socially conservative or liberal.
I don’t think libertarian conservatives are socially liberal at all. They simply do not think the government should or can force “morality” at the point of a gun. And another thing to consider is that your version of morality, and the version of our present or future government may not be the same thing. I think the less power the government has over our lives, the better for people, and the better for morality.
as GC says, more later
Molon Labe!
I know he is well liked
Doc Holliday (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 11:52PM EDT (link)I know has done a lot of good stuff in the past. I probably need to get over his almost fetish-like zeal when he kept trying to force FEDERAL ban on internet gambling. There is only one reason Kyl did this, it was to help out casino interests. I am sorry, I don’t respect people that would play with our freedoms this way.
Kyl still whining about his gambling ban
Molon Labe!
This isn't about a purge Achance...I've said that over and over again...
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 11:53PM EDT (link)It’s about getting people in the game…it’s about getting RS members from each state finding out how to start and how to move up…it’s about knowing who the movers and shakers are and what they are about.
Really…if all you want to do is cat call from the wings and trash anyone trying to do something around here I’d just as soon you stay out of my threads!
Nobody is talking about "attacking" the party aperatus
AceInTX (Diary) Saturday, November 29th at 11:58PM EDT (link)If you don’t want to learn anything about who our leaders are and what they are in to that’s fine…and if you’re not interested in participating in the convention process then that’s fine to…or maybe you do participate in them in already in which case you could try teaching others who are interested in getting involved.
But from your post all I see is someone who is apparently happy with the status quot and would rather be a blind follower that participate in making this party better.
Oh well…to each his own.
Kyl denies he did this
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 12:20AM EDT (link)to protect brick and mortar casinos, and I said it wrong when I said he only had one motivation. In fact, he says he hates all gambling to be fair I give you his own words responding to a Reason Magazine op-ed
The fact of the matter is people should have the right to dispose of their own money how they see fit. Almost every state in the Union profits from and supports gambling. And the form of gambling they support, lotteries and scratch off tickets, are the most regressive and unfair types of gambling games.
I simply can never understand when someone wants to use the Federal government to curtail our freedoms. People should be free to do what they want as long as they do not hurt others. When a precedent is set that the government can ban x type of activity, then sooner or later they will get to y and z. I defend smoker’s rights although I do not smoke, the reason should be easy for any RStater to understand.
The reason I said we were damaged by Bush, Frist, and Kyl, is they are the ones who grew the government, weakend liberty, and gave us the drubbing of 2006. I am not saying Kyl is even in the top 50 of my least favorite Senators. I am saying that we as a party, a party on the rocks, need to go back to liberty and personal responsibility.
Molon Labe!
I think it is a fair question
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 12:57AM EDT (link)if we are going to go along with this insurrection, we better all agree on what it means to be a conservative. Huckabee is not a conservative, he is a big government populist. He fights for the freedoms he likes, and against the freedoms he does not like.
Ace, I would appreciate it if you gave a few more examples of these so called Rockefeller Republicans that have taken over. As I have said many times, self described Socons have had control of this party for a long time. Remember, I said “self-described” so don’t get too angry. The only Rockefeller types I know of are North East Repubs, and they mostly all been defeated at the polls.
I argue that we need to go back to the party of Goldwater-Reagan. We need to get rid of the big government know it alls, not social liberals. In fact, I would like you to name one social liberal in charge of our party during this severe decline since 2004.
Molon Labe!
sweet Jaded
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:11AM EDT (link)I saw my unit patch there. I joined at 17 because they don’t let you do it at 16
. Anyway, we do need to fight for the heart of this party, and end that fight quickly and decisively. Then we need to join together and take on the big threats.
Molon Labe!
Back good candidates or BECOME candidates
Neil Stevens (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:12AM EDT (link)Red State needs to get to the point where it can be a better help for people who want to get active at the local level to back or become candidates, but we’re not yet.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
I agree
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:23AM EDT (link)but leave McCain alone. He has done enough for our country to be allowed to retire or become irrelevant. If we take down Hagel, Graham, etc, John will have no one to lead.
Of course if he does more things against the party, he should be called out. But I think at this time he should be left alone and we shall give him a chance to be the Reagan conservative he claims to be.
Molon Labe!
Right there with you Doc....glad you enjoyed the video!
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 1:50AM EDT (link)I know back when my father was part of the National Guard they called them the Mickey Mouse army NOW they are the heart and soul of this country and fighting for the hearts and minds in others….they as all the branches do make this lady proud to be an American!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
yes
Doc Holliday (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 2:35AM EDT (link)during Vietnam the National Guard got a bad rep as a place to hide from the draft. That is actually sad because 23,000 Guardsmen served in that war. And many other reserves, had to be prepared to fight our Cold War enemy.
After the Reagan build up, the Army realized that it could not support the required combat divisions on active duty. The Army National Guard soon represented 50 percent of our nation’s combatant divisions. The Army Reserve focused mainly on non-combat roles, replacing active forces that where sent abroad. This was not the case for all of course, but was and is the general order of forces.
I agree of course that we honor all those who serve in all branches, and many serve this country in countless other ways.
Molon Labe!
Here is my contribution.
itsonlywords (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 3:16AM EDT (link)Washington RNC Members
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
We is dat bogeyman
vernonia Sunday, November 30th at 6:47AM EDT (link)The GOP’s “fall in line” primary system annointed John McCain after such bellweather states as New Hampshire and South Carolina gave him narrow victories.
It was primogeniture that led to the nomination of Dole and McCain.
The GOP’s affection for Poppy Bush led them to line up behind his son, the Restoration candidate.
It’s not a conspiracy of party elders, it’s the rank and file primary voters of Iowa and New Hampshire winnowing our field.
Change the primary process, change the result.
Dave Ramsey in 2012!
Whoa, cowboy.
Josh Painter (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 9:27AM EDT (link)Ace, though I guess I’m supposed to be flattered that you linked to my post, you missed the point. My fault for violating one of my own rules: “Never post when you’re angry.”
I beat up Curly Haugland rather severely in that post, but nowhere in it did I frame my argument in terms of conservatives vs. “RINOs.” What set me off was the way a candidate for RNC chair was dissed for not being an RNC insider and therefore “not qualified for the postition” simply because he’s not an RNC member. It’s not a prerequisite, according to the RNC’s rules.
A politician can have a 100% lifetime ACU rating and still not be able to lead a one-car parade. I believe that the RNC has a leadership deficit, but it has nothing to do with the purity of lack of same of conservative convictions.
BTW, Curly responded to my post, and he did so as a true gentleman. He was much kinder to me than I was to him. And for the record, like me, he’s a Reagan conservative who thinks Sarah Palin was one of the few bright spots in the McCain campaign.
I still disagree with him about Michael Steele or any other outsider who wants to be RNC chair, but my argument was about leadership, not ideology. Please don’t use my post as a rallying cry for an RNC RINO hunt.
If you want to change things, encourage people whith real leadership abilities who want to be RNC members to keep that committee independent of the control of the White House or of any politician’s campaign organization.
“An armed society is a polite society” – Robert A. Heinlein, “Beyond This Horizon” (1942)
You want change.
Mark Kilmer (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 10:05AM EDT (link)I feel your pain, Ace, but what will you change? Seriously. You might change the Republican Party apparatus into a fine discussion club, but the RNC is about winning elections. There is a runoff Tuesday for the U.S. Senate from Georgia, but we’re to concern ourselves with bogeymen in the RNC?
I want a conservative GOP. The way to a conservative GOP is to elect conservative candidates and keep them governing as conservatives. The power in the party is in its elected officials. We have to keep pushing everyone from the Senate Leader on down to the local councilman to govern to stick to principles.
The conservatism of the GOP will not alter in either direction if the national chairman is Michael Steele or if he’s Rich Bond.
Get angry if you want, man, but direct your anger sanely.
Ace, if you want people to "stay out" of your threads,
Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 10:49AM EDT (link)don’t put them up. I once was a member of a political party that young, inexperienced, and naive ideological zealots thought needed “grass roots” reform. The “reformers” took over at the precinct and district caucus and convention level and threw out the ideologically impure established leadership.
The states where those people got a firm grip on power have ever growing social problems and social welfare spending and most have economies in precipitous decline. In those days, I worked for organized labor, specifically the Laborers and the AFL-CIO. We quickly found that we were far too anti-communist internationally and pro-development nationally and locally to be tolerated by people whose primary litmus tests were abortion on demand, legalized marajuana, and socialist economics; in about that order.
The ascention to power of those people sentenced their party to the Wilderness for a generation in which they could only hold power in the decaying Northeast and Midwest and in the urban Hellholes. The only time they could hold national power is and remains with candidates who deny or obfuscate the fundamental belief structure of the Party they represent. That is true even down to the House of Reps level and even in the last two elections. Even with a Party essentially wearing a disguise, it took a heavily biased media and astounding stupidity in both Congress and the Executive Branch to give them a narrow victory over a decidedly third rate Republican ticket.
I am a liberal as that political philosophy was once understood. I am a conservative in the sense that approach to life was once understood. I do not believe in dramatic change unless someone is shooting at you. In government particularly, I believe that one should first try following the directions before coming up with a new process. There is room in my Republican Party for the Main Street types that you decry, for the libertarians, even for the Log Cabin types, and for fiscons, socons, and defcons so long as they are willing to adhere to a few basic federalist and republican principles – not the lower case “R.”
I want to bring people into the Party, not push them out. That said, if one of the aforementioned factions comes to dominate the Party at the expense of the other factions’ interests, then the Party’s structural mechanisms are adequate to restore some balance.
We lost the last two elections because we, with a lot of help from the Ds and the media, demonstrated to America that we could not be trusted to govern cleanly and competently; it is just that simple. Other than the kiddies and the Blacks coming out in somewhat greater numbers than usual for their New Hope candidate, nothing much changed in the turnouts and interests of the American people. What had changed was that they had lost confidence in the Republican Party to govern. There was no great ideological shift, even the Ds had to run as R-lite to get elected. The McCain-Palin ticket ran as Gov. Palin herself had run here; as the un-Republican and un-Bush. They had to try to run against the perceived, and too often real, corruption and incompentence of THEIR OWN PARTY.
There is no need to reform Party structures. There is a need to use and maintain those structures. A decade ago we were all talking about a permanent Republican majority and we put the Party on cruise control and enjoyed the spending party. Nobody cared what was going on and nobody much went to meetings and caucuses ’cause everything was rolling along just fine. Right up until the day it stopped rolling at all.
This is getting much too long, so I’ll go back to where I started in my diary of Nov. 22. I’m not getting myself wrapped around the axle over who’s heading the Titanic’s dance band; there’s not much I can do about who’s in the band or what their playlist is. I can do something about Alaska House District 4, Mendenhall Valley Precinct. If I and lots of other people go back to that,the rest will take care of itself.
In Vino Veritas
Change the primary process, change the result.
Diogenes314 (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 10:53AM EDT (link)It has less to do with the two states mentioned than the overall acceptance of winner-take-all voting. More than anything else, a nove towards proportional/instant runnoff voting would help to insure that the eventual candidate has the support of as many voters as possible. And if we expanded that to the general election on a state by state basis, it would increase voter turnout and diminish the out of proportion effect of urban Dem strongholds, among other things.
I’m all for more involvement in the political process at the grass roots, but IMNSHO working for election reform would be far more productive than paranoid RINO hunts.
Doin' a Kowalski:
Achance (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 11:46AM EDT (link)4th para s/b: “note” the lower case …
Just to elaborate on the corruption and competence issue: Democrat constituencies don’t care if their officeholders are corrupt and/or incompetent so long as they say the right stuff and vote the right way. Republican constituents and the NPs that we have to attract DO CARE. I think we care too much and too readily kick good people to the curb over relatively minor stuff, but the fact remains that there is a double standard. Some of it is media bias but a lot of it is a legitimate expectation of our constituents that we will govern cleanly and competently – something we’ve shown remarkably little ability to actually do.
In Vino Veritas
I forgot to mention the important part.
itsonlywords (Diary) Sunday, November 30th at 12:09PM EDT (link)After I contacted my county GOP, one thing led to another and now I’m on their “Membership and Communication Action Team.”
It was ridiculously easy to get involved; they are desperate for input. I suspect that in many blue, blue states there are many counties that are in the same position.
Moral of my story – if you want to get involved, just start contacting people and see what happens.
Tu ne cede malis sed contra audientor ito. ~Virgil
Do not give in to evil, but proceed evermore boldly against it.
First of I'm sorry for the stay out of my threads crack
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:25AM EDT (link)I was in a bad mood when I wrote it and regretted it as soon a s I posted it.
That said I keep trying to disabuse you of the notion that this is a post about…or that I advocate purging anyone from the Party. This is about who controls the Party and my issue is with the fact that 10% of this party controls the message, tactics and agenda of the other 90%. But in no way am I saying throw anyone out or ban anyone. yet you insist on setting up that as a straw man and knocking it down.
I don’t disagree with you at all here…the media is a huge factor in this but their bias is becoming so obvious that I don’t put near as much weight on them as many do. I put more weight behind the “astounding stupidity in both Congress and the Executive Branch”
And who is responsible for that astounding stupidity…it’s not SoCons contrary to popular belief because SoCons didn’t ask for a massive expansion of the education system called no child left behind…we’re the ones behind the home school movement because we don’t trust the government to educate our kids…We didn’t ask for a massive expansion of the medicare system with the prescription drug benefit. We didn’t ask for McCain Fiengold…or Amnesty. All that occured against our wishes and the amnesty bill was defeated only after a massive effort on our part!
I agree…there is room in the party for them and I don’t advocate throwing them out…but there isn’t room in this party for them to lord it over the 90% of this party that they relentlessly attack and aggressively work to undermine and defeat at every turn…and I wonder, when you say “they should so long as they are willing to adhere to a few basic federalist and republican principles If by adhere you mean they can collude with the Democrats to advance their big government and socialist agenda and still get to thwart the overwhelming majority of the party?
Fair enough…what you seemingly refuse to acknowledge what I’ve said over and over again is my goal to restore a balance because the leftist faction of this party has dominated this it for 50 years with a few exceptions in 1980 and 1994…and in those two instances and in 2004…that faction immediately went into apoplectic fits about how they needed to band together and push back the barbarians that had imposed themselves on their fiefdoms and threatened to stop the crumbs falling from the master’s, (Democrat’s) table. well…if the “Party’s structural mechanisms are adequate to restore some balance” then what are they…cause I think it’s time a little balance was restored.
OK…thank you for making my point…How did this all come about?…is it because I or the majority of the party agreed with the K street project? or no child left behind? or McCain Lieberman, or McCain Kennedy, or McCain Fiengold?…Hell…the majority of this party didn’t even want the candidate the party saddled us with…so whose fault is all of the above? it damn sure ain’t mine because I don’t have any say about it!
Again…fair enough…but did they run as the un-Bush or did they run as Democrats? It’s a serious question because you could easily run as the un-Bush by adhering to conservative principle…God knows that would have been a change…but no…we got “I wouldn’t drill in ANWR because that would be like drilling in the grand canyon or the everglades.” or at an speech before an Irish group that Immigration Reform is his goal first last and always and then promised amnesty to 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants…and speeches about the wonders of his Global Cap And Trade legislation, (Al Gore’s Carbon Tax). Oh…and the sniveling about Obama refusing to tie his own hands and keep his promise to tie himself to the abomination that is McCain Fiengold!
Again a straw man…I never said anything about reforming the Party structure…I said we need to systematically work to take it over from the bottom up…It’s in the OP…you should read it…I’m really proud of it….I’m told it’s quite good!
I agree Doc H---I'm just replying to the absurdity that McCain isn't a RINO
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:28AM EDT (link)nt
Definite food for thought Doc H...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:42AM EDT (link)Wheat I keep bumping my head up against with you is the SoCon/SoLib thing…My issue isn’t limited to that one dynamic…it’s the whole package…My issue is with the crowd in leadership today…Mike Duncan for starters that insist that we moderate on nearly every issue.
McCain didn’t just de-emphasize Social Conservatism and not mention abortion one single time in this campaign except Saddleback…He sang from the radical environmentalist hymnal with his global cap & trade crap. He bellied up to the bailout trough….He’s still pushing amnesty first, now, and forever….it’s the people who pushed him…the people who ran his campaign…it’s the people who rig the game and allow open primaries and compressed primary schedules with big blue states voting first that almost guarantees a moderate to liberal nominee…
Truth is….I don’t know who they are because these aren’t the people we see…they work at the conventions and at Republican Party offices across this country. They get the juicy committee chairs at the national conventions and decide who the RNC chair is. They lurk behind the curtain and pull the levers of power and we never know who they are…that’s what moy challenge is…it’s a plea for Red Staters to put in some time to find out who they are
Doc...We've been around and around this
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:55AM EDT (link)you insist on laying motivations on me that I don’t have…
I’ve never advocated the government enforcing morality at the point of a gun…I’ve advocated limiting the government to the maximum extent possible buy encouraging morality without enforcing it…there is a huge difference…I have continuously made the point with you that I believe it is the absence of morality that causes the government to grow…The more immoral a society the more imperative it is that government grow to impose and enforce order…
Maybe it’s a chicken or egg arguement but it’s a question of which comes first…Morality or liberty…History has proven liberty inexorably gives way to tyranny as a society decays morally…It’s why I think the dems spend so much time attacking the moral fabric of our society and the only issue I have with some libertarians is that they are unconsciously helping the Dems grow the government when they go after SoCons.
VCopied into my database...Thaks for the info
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:59AM EDT (link)nt
Niel...it's what my challenge is about...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 1:03AM EDT (link)find out how to become a delegate at each level…get to know your local, county, state and national leadership…learn the scuttlebutt and pass it around…
Is the insurgency comments melodramatic and over the top? maybe…but it’s my style….
Nice sentiments Mark...but...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 1:20AM EDT (link)Really? Coulda fooled me cause they haven’t been winning a lot lately…but it’s not about a discussion club…it’s about how we put more conservatives in positions within the Party apparatus.
OK…who recruits these conservative candidates? Who gives us the choices we have on the ballot each election cycle? This isn’t rocket science….there is a structure and a process and there are people behind the structures and processes…all I’m asking for is to identify who they are and what they are about…if you don’t want to be a part of it fine…but please stop dumping cold water on those of us trying to do something…
And this isn’t about misplaced anger…it’s about learning…if nothing else comes of this beyond encouraging some here to make some contacts and learn how to get involved as a result then I’ve achieved at least part of my goal. and it looks like I’ve achieved at least that much from a few of the posts here
Thanks paultag1955
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 1:24AM EDT (link)At least there are a few folks here who read my post and don’t insist on characterizing my challenge as a “RINO hunt or a “PURGE”!
Obviously you haven't read my post...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 1:45AM EDT (link)and this isn’t about a RINO hunt or purge…it’s about finding out who controls this party and what they believe in…it’s about helping conservatives learn how to get involved in the process at the precinct level and work your way up…it’s about shining a light on parts of this system we’re all a part of that not very many people…including me…know a lot about…
Your post fired me up and pointed me to how the system works around the RNC when I had already been wondering how it worked myself. It prompted me to write this to encourage Red Staters to find the answers as to who these people are and how the process works…I liked your piece and recommended it..or at least meant to and I linked to it because it answered questions I had and it motivated me to write this but that’s the extent of it…You give yourself too much credit if you think this is supposed to be a continuation of your post…I’m glad you got things straightened out with Curly and I’m glad to learn he’s one of us….at least where the ideology goes…but the arrogance he displays in his email doesn’t speak well of him no matter what he believes and is typical of the people that have driven this party to ruin…
If we’re going to discuss your post and the relationship it has to what I wrote, it’s the “you have no right to be in that position because you’re not one of us” attitude that I’m always accused of having. I’m accused of it…yet I keep running up against when Curly and his type have their turfs encroached upon.
I’m not supporting Steele for RNC chair for reasons I’ve posted on but the idea he can’t be RNC chair because he didn’t come up through the good ole boy network says something about the trouble we’re in…and my post addresses the problem of networking and the buddy system that keeps the same people in charge from one generation to the next.
It’s folly to allow this to continue and we won’t get new blood in the system as long as it’s allowed to continue
I hit reply to this but it came out as a separate post below
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 1:48AM EDT (link)nt
Well, Ace, that provacative and over the top style
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 3:25AM EDT (link)is why some of us question your seriousness.
If you want nuts and bolts politics, there are a lot of people here who can do it. There is no one answer since much varies at the local, county, district, or state level, but the prnciples are the same. And there’s really only one principle that matters; you must have influence to accomplish anything. You can get that influence by being a reliable precinct captain, good at making and putting up signs, good at making GOTV calls, or good at bundling hundreds of thousands of dollars, but you have to be known to be able and willing to do SOMETHING.
In Vino Veritas
And you have to be a reliable team player
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 3:51AM EDT (link)If people think you’re flighty, then you’re not useful to the cause, and so you can’t develop any influence.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
'Fraid I've failed that one a few times, Neil.
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 3:54AM EDT (link)I’m pretty good at bailing when I don’t like the odds. Unfortunately, I have all too many friends and acquaintances who’ve become guests of the US lately for not having the same sense.
In Vino Veritas
Not sure we're talking about the same things then
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 3:57AM EDT (link)I was trying to refer to the tendency some have to back third party candidates at the drop of a hat.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
No, never done that.
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 4:25AM EDT (link)Have gone home to tend my own vegetables a few times, though.
In Vino Veritas
That has the virtue of doing no harm (nt)
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 4:35AM EDT (link)RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
I didn't tell you it was quite good.
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 4:52AM EDT (link)Most of it is divorced from reality, actually. There is not a conservative party. You couldn’t get agreement from self-described conservatives on what conservatism is if your life depended on it. To my mind it is more a way of dealing with change and societal conditions than any specific policy. I live in a socialist state and I’m both quite content with that socialism and very conservative towards any attempt to change it. How does that square with your definition of conservative?
In any event, it isn’t some conspiracy of effete northeasterners and Beltway elitists that got us here. It was a lot of good “conservatives” from the South and West who couldn’t keep their hands out of the cookie jar and their thing in their pants.
As I said above, the whole Party got way too complacent. We bought that permanent majority stuff and left the Party and its politics in the hands of whomever would show up and do it. Ok, its time to get back in the saddle, but it isn’t time to start looking for scalps.
In Vino Veritas
ok Ace, I understand you better
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 8:28AM EDT (link)I certainly am not the type to want to blur lines. I want to make the lines as clear as possible. I totally agree with you on anmensty, global warming, etc. I want real conservatives, supporting real conservative ideals. Many come to Washington to change it, but it changes them, they want to be popular with the DC elite as Rush often mentions.
I am not quite so worried about back door deals as you seem to be, but what the heck, I agree there should be sunshine. Heck, we should certainly be able to know who voted for RNC Chair etc and whom they voted for.
Probably my only quibble would be open primaries. That is a state issue. I am sure open primaries seem as odd to people from closed primary states as having to register with a Party to vote seems odd to us.
I will tell you we did not put the best candidate up there, but I would lay odds the best candidate did not even run.
Molon Labe!
and while we change the process of picking our candidates...
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 9:34AM EDT (link)let us make sure that you are a registered Republican to VOTE in the process!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
It's not a state issue if
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 9:35AM EDT (link)by state, you mean the state government. The USSC has held that participation in a party’s primary is strictly a matter for that party. Even though state governments conduct the primary election, they cannot dictate to a party who it allows to cast a ballot to choose that party’s nominees.
There may be good reasons for a national party to leave the issue to the states, but the party has every right to dictate how persons who “join” that party may participate in its activities, including voting in primary elections or participating in caucuses or conventions.
I am adamantly opposed to open primaries and am not sure we have it right here when we let NPs vote in the R primary. Actually, I’m more of the smoke-filled room kinda guy (though I’ve quit smoking) and prefer no primary at all but rather the caucus and convention system.
In Vino Veritas
you paint with too broad a brush sir
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 9:58AM EDT (link)every state has election laws. My state has open primaries in its election laws. Democrats and Republicans have primaries on the same day and one must choose which primary to in which to partake.
Molon Labe!
And if your state's open primary
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:22AM EDT (link)law is challenged by one of the parties, it will be found unconstitutional on freedom of association grounds, as was the case with the CA open primary law that went to the USSC.
Fundamentally, choosing a party’s nominee is not a state issue, though most do exercise some control over it since they conduct the election.
I can’t imagine why a state Democrat Party would want a bunch of Republicans voting to choose the Democrat nominee or vice versa. Our experience here was that an open Republican primary gave us D-lite nominees, so much so that former Governor Hickel, probably the foremost R in the State at the time, bolted the Republican nomination of a very liberal candidate in ’90 and ran himself under the Alaska Independence Party banner and was elected as the AIP nominee rather than the Republican. That election is also the source of all the controversy about Todd and Sarah Palin being “secessionists” and all that stuff.
The Alaska Supreme Court came to Gov. Knowles’ rescue and opened the ’98 primary, which resulted in a lot of Ds and NPs nominating an R nominee that no Republican in their right mind would have voted for. It did get Knowles his second term. Then the USSC handed down the CA decision and we returned to a closed Republican primary, though we do allow NPs to choose a Republican ballot. The Democrats still have an open primary in that they allow any registered voter to choose the D ballot.
In Vino Veritas
Please not my call for all Red Staters to blog on how to get involved at these levels...in the OP
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:24AM EDT (link)Fair enough Neil...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:29AM EDT (link)I agree totally that we need team players and need to be team players…see “RMSP”, “RLC”, “It’s My Party Too” and any number of others whose specific and stated purpose is to undermine and thwart the success of the team…
I just don’t get the fact that I and conservatives in general keep getting beat about the head about purges and team play when the same standard I/we are held to is never applied to the left/moderate wing of the party?
please explain.
Who amongst us did that?
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:30AM EDT (link)nt
Exactly...Sometimes I wonder if you even read my posts instead of just jumpin thin the thread and popping off
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:51AM EDT (link)they want to be popular with the DC elite as Rush often mentions.
So…who are these DC elites that keep changing all these great conservative candidates we’re sending up there?
Seriously…This is more than just a rhetorical question…you scoff at me for suggesting there are boogy men that out there rigging the game and undercutting us at every turn but then you reference the exact group of people I’m wanting to expose to the light of day. I’m glad you get it but come on man.
I’m unclear what you are saying here…are you for or against open primaries?
If you’re for Open primaries….why? I mean shouldn’t Republicans be deciding who is going to represent them instead of Democrats who have candidates who are unopposed in their primary jumping to our side and making sure we have the most liberal candidate possible?
There is nothing that can be done to stop people from switching parties to vote in primaries
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:59AM EDT (link)as in operation chaos…but at least they have to commit to being a republican for at least the next 2 years that way…open primaries are totally different in that you can be a registered Democrat and request a Republican Ballot
When have conservatives ever been purged in my lifetime?
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:01AM EDT (link)Hint: I was born in 78.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
It doesn't...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:13AM EDT (link)As so often happens with language…especially in politics…meanings change…you quote a true definition of conservatism is it is in the English language but not what it’s come to mean in politics…Frankly it’s a joke that Conservatism in the political sense can’t be defined…it was defined by Reagan and has been understood to be limited government, strong national defense and and support for the traditional morality that has made this country what it is…
If you want to maintain socialism and help it thrive…(which I would say is impossible because socialism inevitably falls in upon itself)…then you don’t fit with what I understand conservatism to be…somehow I don’t think what you wrote above is necessarily true…I think you are making a rhetorical point because you’ve never came across as pro socialist to me but to each his own…
As to my post being detached from reality…what’s wrong with finding out and posting info on who is a part of the group that chooses our RNC chair…or those who work on the platform committee and shape or policy as a party, or finding out how primaries are scheduled and what the party does to influence when and where they are held? What’s unrealistic about knowledge?
Seriously Achance…you sound bitter about your experience in Government…and maybe your trying to protect me from my own idealism…but why do you have to try so hard to be so negative?
That's not what I said and you know it Neil...Can we be serious for a minute?
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:24AM EDT (link)Team play is more than not kicking someone off the team…it’s doing whatever is possible to help the team succeed…it’s taking care of your assignment to make the play succeed as much as possible even when you don’t like the play that was called…it doesn’t mean anything close to purging any one…
The groups I mention exist to undermine the team and ensure defeat for huge swaths of the Republican agenda…why shouldn’t they be expected to be team players as you described it…why are they exempt from your standard of team play when I and conservatives are not?
I never said they're exempt, Ace
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:33AM EDT (link)But two wrongs don’t make a right, as they say.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Purge is good
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:40AM EDT (link)That is all.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
conservatives have been the whipping boys
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:46AM EDT (link)for the party, pretty much your entire lifetime. They have been systematically excluded from party leadership and decision-making, for pretty much your lifetime.
They have been blamed for everything when they never had a dog in the hunt, pretty much for your lifetime.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Neither should one wrong be acceptable...n/t
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:46AM EDT (link)n/t
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
How exactly?
Diogenes314 (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:55AM EDT (link)For example, if the Kos types in a race with no primary challangers on the Dem side (Boxer’s re-election and Obama’s in 2012 come to mind) get together and switch party registrations to screw with the GOP primary, what do we do about it? Require new registrees to wait a year before they are eligible? Invalidate ballots by anyone registered as a dem in the last two years?
This one, I have no answer for. At least no good answer.
That's not really the same as a purge though
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:26PM EDT (link)It seems to me that from 78 to 81 we made the move from the outs to in, capping off the effort began in the 50s by WFB.
And of course from 80 to 93 the party was lead by (dun dun dun) Reagan/Bush. Yes, I know that Bush wasn’t conservative, but he won because he donned the Reagan mantle.
94 conservative ideas stayed at the fore when we took the Congress.
Gingrich eventually was driven out, but on ethics charges by Democrats, not any intraparty purge.
Then in 2000 we had a race between McCain and Bush. No conservative there to purge to begin with.
So I’m not sure when we’ve been systematically targetted, the way some at RS would have us target ‘moderates.’
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Sure there is if you have a Republican legislature.
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:36PM EDT (link)Just set the registration cutoff for thirty days before the election. Thirty days is the max residency the VRA allows, so you can’t have more time.
That won’t stop it all, but it will put a real dent in it.
As to the open primary, the only thing the Party would have to do is just make a rule/policy that it will not seat a delegation selected in a primary that allows Democrats to vote in the Republican primary.
In Vino Veritas
Neil....have you read anything about the RMSP....
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:40PM EDT (link)Seriously, Ace did a diary on them…their stated purpose upon their creation was to work against the proposals of the Gingrich Revolution in 1994. Not much of a team player aspect to that.
If you don’t want to confront the truth that there are groups in the Party who are purposefully driving the party into the left lane…despite the oncoming traffic, the least you could do is not poke at those who are willing to.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Achance...I like this idea...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:46PM EDT (link)The only problem is how can we implement this rule/policy if we don’t control the Parties rules committee…seems like a catch 22 to me. Of course I may be ignorant on the process…care to clue me in?
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
apples, oranges
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 12:49PM EDT (link)I guess the description of a ‘purge’ of conservatives from GOP party leadership would imply that we have ever BEEN in leadership, so in that sense, there has never been such a purge.
But the nearest approximation, systematically excluding conservatives from party leadership, seems (to me) an inescapable conclusion. Considering that the conservative faction typically makes up say 35% (a number I am only guessing at, based roughly on RSC membership) of the Washington GOP delegation in a given year, yet the top is, year after year, dominated by squishes, implies that the exclusion is deliberate.
Newt does not count in this discussion, IMO. Championing the Contract With America was a bold and courageous move in a conservative cause. But in large part he governed as the average power-hungry squish. You should read Coburn’s opinion of Newt as Speaker. His conversion to conservative powerhouse, like Romney, is both recent and incomplete, very convenient for a guy not holding office.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
Gingrich eventually was driven out, but on ethics charges by Democrats, not any intraparty purge.
Diogenes314 (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 1:34PM EDT (link)Not really. Out of 84 politicly motivated ethics charges, he was found guilty of one violation by the ethics committe, who left it to the IRS to decide sanctions. After which the IRS cleared him. The GOP leadership (Armey, DeLay, Boehner and Paxon signed on to the coup designed by Largent, Graham and Souder) attempted to force him to resign in the summer of ’97, but failed when Dick Armey backed out. It was the congressional losses in the ’98 election that forced his resignation.
The point being there was no conservative vs. liberal issue here, it was about being a party of ideas vs a party of governance. When it went from being Gingrich’s GOP to DeLay’s was when it decided political power was more important than issues and that keeping their jobs was more important than doing them. This was what lost us the congress in 2006, not some secret cabal of RINOs, but a leadership (most of whom are considered conservative)that prefered power over principle.
But good luck to all concerned with whatever it is you are trying to do here. I think some are out of focus and missing the big picture, but getting involved in the process is commendable.
I like that...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:01PM EDT (link)I do have a problem with people being able to change parties as they are signing in to vote…that’s the way it is in Texas…I’m not being clear…I meant what you are saying in that they should have to change parties ahead of time and not on election day…I’d also like to see an end of the early voting…It sucks…
Kowalski...I said I liked it but forgot to say what I like
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:08PM EDT (link)Ace....look at the comment I made above...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:17PM EDT (link)Achance must have gone to lunch…how do we get that rule/policy in place?…Seems like a catch 22 to me.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Rule making.
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:30PM EDT (link)Like any other rule in any organization. Get yourself in a place to be heard at whatever level is attainable to you and start networking the idea and lobbying for it. Get to a place where you can get your district committee to petition the state committee or convention to pass a resolution asking the National committee to do it. That’s the broad strokes and bright colors anyway.
In Vino Veritas
Ok Achance...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:39PM EDT (link)In other words…exactly what Ace was suggesting in the original diary post.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
No, not exactly.
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:45PM EDT (link)Because I’m not calling any of the people that I’d like to influence “fools” or “clowns” or publicly advocating that they are tools of some nebulous secret society and that they should all be removed.
In Vino Veritas
Well said Aaron...My thing is this Neil
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:50PM EDT (link)if they’re going to work to undermine the team…why am I wrong for pointing it out?
Ace didn't claim them to be members of some "nebulous secret society" ...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 2:53PM EDT (link)He named specific groups with specific agendas that we should oppose.
But I suppose it is much easier to just be condescending and write him off as a conspiratorial kook.
Ace was calling for Conservatives to be more active and to know their enemies in order to effect the change they want. I would say this is the same as what you posted, you just did it with less words and avoided calling out any specific group to challenge.
I wasn’t trying to be an ass Achance…I was trying to agree with you. Sorry you to my agreement as an insult.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Like the Lions on Thanksgiving...
vernonia Monday, December 1st at 3:25PM EDT (link)Iowa and New Hampshire are passe deciders of top candidates. Let’s get a rotation going.
Winner-take-all is alleged to help minimize the party’s internecine blood-letting. Perhaps a knock-down, drag-out primary would do the party good–give conservatives everywhere a chance to weigh in.
Also, Obama won the DEM nomination with strong organization in caucus states. Caucuses might better measure the enthusiasm of party activists and weed out lefty interlopers.
Dave Ramsey in 2012!
Again with the mischaracterizations...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 3:52PM EDT (link)I’ve never claimed they are part of a secret society…just that they fly under the radar and work the party apparatus in obscurity…It’s what I’m busy doing bringing them from obscurity into the light of day…it’s why I have the RMSP in my sights now with plan to take on the RLC, “It’s my Party too” and other groups that have crippled the conservative movement for far too long…
As I said above…maybe I am over the top with my rhetoric calling people fools and such …and I likely won’t ever have a postilion in the party leadership as a result because I’m too blunt and to the point in the way I say things and address problems when I see them.
Subtlety has never been my strong point and I’ve never been able to overcome my proclivity to spout off and call people on their foolishness…On the flip side, I expect the same from them when I’m being especially stupid which is one reason I have a profound respect for you.
It’s aggravating to have you twist everything I say into something it’s not. Anyway…I’ve tried to temper my more colorful way of saying things with little success…like it or not…you’ll likely see more of it from me and you can take it for what it is or leave it.
What I’d like to see from you is maybe looking past the more strident paragraphs and some input on the rest of it i.e. getting people involved, educating the party at large how the process works, who are the movers and shakers in the party leadership at the national level and blog on it while also doing the same on a local and state level…
Finally…Patrick Henry was accused of being a bomb thrower and for being extreme in his rhetoric and while I’m certainly no Patrick Henry I would say that every movement has it’s clarion rhetorician to call out the issues and call people to action…There are some of us here trying to do the same…if you’re happy with the status quo that’s fine too and this post isn’t meant for you.
Sad thing is…I had some people doing just that but now I’m engaged in a back and forth with you and Neil and Doc H about what a jerk I can be…and everyone that was fired up and ready to get in the game have tuned out and moved on…
Thanks a lot!
Again with the mischaracterizations
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 3:54PM EDT (link)I’ve never claimed they are part of a secret society…just that they fly under the radar and work the party apparatus in obscurity…It’s what I’m busy doing bringing them from obscurity into the light of day…it’s why I have the RMSP in my sights now with plan to take on the RLC, “It’s my Party too” and other groups that have crippled the conservative movement for far too long…
As I said above…maybe I am over the top with my rhetoric calling people fools and such …and I likely won’t ever have a postilion in the party leadership as a result because I’m too blunt and to the point in the way I say things and address problems when I see them.
Subtlety has never been my strong point and I’ve never been able to overcome my proclivity to spout off and call people on their foolishness…On the flip side, I expect the same from them when I’m being especially stupid which is one reason I have a profound respect for you.
It’s aggravating to have you twist everything I say into something it’s not. Anyway…I’ve tried to temper my more colorful way of saying things with little success…like it or not…you’ll likely see more of it from me and you can take it for what it is or leave it.
What I’d like to see from you is maybe looking past the more strident paragraphs and some input on the rest of it i.e. getting people involved, educating the party at large how the process works, who are the movers and shakers in the party leadership at the national level and blog on it while also doing the same on a local and state level…
Finally…Patrick Henry was accused of being a bomb thrower and for being extreme in his rhetoric and while I’m certainly no Patrick Henry I would say that every movement has it’s clarion rhetorician to call out the issues and call people to action…There are some of us here trying to do the same…if you’re happy with the status quo that’s fine too and this post isn’t meant for you.
Sad thing is…I had some people doing just that but now I’m engaged in a back and forth with you and Neil and Doc H about what a jerk I can be…and everyone that was fired up and ready to get in the game have tuned out and moved on…
Thanks a lot!
Iowa and NH impart initial momentum...
Diogenes314 (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 4:26PM EDT (link)But that’s about it. In the last election, McCain was able to secure the nomination by A)triangulating between social conservatives’ irrational hatred of Romney and anyone who wished to win in November recognizing Huey Huckabee for the disingenuous whackjob he was and B)the depressed voting for any other candidate due to people who would otherwise support them voting against one of the three mentioned. With proportional voting, McCain would never have reached the lead he did on Super Tuesday, after which it was all over. And with instant runoff voting (you have a first and second choice, any candidate whose numbers fall below a certain threshhold is discounted and the voters second choice counted), not only would all of the Thompson, Guliani etc votes gone to one of the candidates in the running, but their supporters who may not have actually voted for them because they were ‘out of the race’ would have been able to vote for the candidate of their choice instead of holding their nose and voting for the least offensive.
Maybe a little too outside the box for some here. But it would make more sense than the current system. Or complaining because your state doesn’t hold elections when you want them to.
And that’s just the primaries.
Because it's wasteful
Neil Stevens (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 4:27PM EDT (link)Every bullet you don’t fire at the Democrats is a bullet wasted.
We have finite amounts of time in a day. Let’s not give the Democrats a moment’s rest. They never give us that luxury.
Let the intraparty stuff wait until the primaries.
RS contributing editor and “a hardy variety of crabgrass.”
Read the RedState Posting Rules
Unlikely Voter: Poll Analysis, Election Projection.
“I rejoice that America has resisted.” – William Pitt, the Elder
Neil I would disagree...
Attack Mode (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 4:39PM EDT (link)If we wait until the primary to do the internal fighting then the primary is wasted and we end up with another McCain.
Can we fire at the Dems and clean our own house at the same time? I think so. Are we incapable of chewing gum and walking at the same time? I think not, in fact I believe Moe has said many times on the FP that we can multi-task…or was that all just for show.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
That's a quaint notion Neil...but what do you do when the folks I'm talking about are giving our ammunition to the Democrats?
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:01PM EDT (link)nt
Yeah...well...when it get's to primaries we're not supposed to attack other Republicans because we might damage them if they become the nominee...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:05PM EDT (link)and then when we’re stuck with a squish in the general then we all have to shut up and get in line because at least he’s better than the Democrat…and then after he loses the election we’re supposed to concentrate on being the loyal opposition and work on raising money and recruiting etc but never ever criticize those leftist/moderate Republicans that never miss a chance to criticize us…
Ain’t it great the way this all works?
5*5*5*5*5*5
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:08PM EDT (link)nt
News flash Niel...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:19PM EDT (link)Bush lost in 1992…and it wasn’t because he carried the mantel for Reagan forward…and the folks I’m railing against decided to form the RMSP after the 1994 victory to roll back the Gingrich Revolution…
and once again…I’m not calling for a purge…I know the Democrats think that if you say something often enough it becomes a fact…and you can follow that tactic if you want…but that’s not at all what the OP was all about…yes I made references to getting rid of some of the most egregious amongst the traitors I’m working on exposing but the bulk of my post was encouraging people here to find out who is in the Republican leadership on the convention levels and the RNC leadership and blogging on them…I’m asking for conservatives to turn out for precinct conventions and work their way up through the party machine so we have some influence on the direction of this party…
Why do you insist on making this about something it’s not when I’ve explained it over and over again…and why defend those that exist to back stab the party faithful and work aggressively to undermine the team?
There's a lesson in that. nt
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:27PM EDT (link)nt
In Vino Veritas
OK which is it...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:28PM EDT (link)you argue that it was the fact that political power became the driving force so conservative principle was abandoned for retention of power yet you say RINOs, (who are loosely defined as opposed to conservative ideology in order to retain power) had nothing to do with the loss of a governing majority…seams like you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too…
And before you go apoplectic and ask me if I consider Delay, Boehner and the rest of the big spenders who drove us into the ditch RINOs…let me save you the effort…my answer in a word is YES!
Is this post in English?
Leon H. Wolf (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:39PM EDT (link)If so, why can’t I understand it?
————
We can’t stop here. This is bat country.
I like the idea...good luck getting those who've gamed the system that exists allowing us to change it
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:47PM EDT (link)nt
As long as it doesn't become self defeating APU...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:51PM EDT (link)but in forestry…cutting out the dead wood is a good thing!
oops...EPU
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:51PM EDT (link)nt
?
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:54PM EDT (link)I’d be happy to try and explain but I need to know what you don’t understand?
Lesson in what?
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 6:02PM EDT (link)the fact that you’ve succeeded in dragging the discussion into the mud and drove off those that were inclined to do something productive?
I knew Patrick Henry, Patrick Henry was a friend
Achance (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 6:17PM EDT (link)of mine … OK, I won’t push it any further.
Patrick Henry wasn’t really one of the Founders, though he made the Founding possible. The first casualties of a revolution are the revolutionaries.
The same is true in any large organization; “change agent” is a very temporary job. That’s what makes consultants rich: they come in, kick over the slop jar, and leave. If something causes too much trouble, the old boys who hired them can just attribute it to the consultants overzealousness, undo it, and be a hero. Nobody has to stick any of their vital parts out; that’s what America runs on these days.
I spent most of my career as a fixer and at times a hit man; if somebody needed to change their career plans, I was usually the one that delivered the “German Choice.” Even my friends were just a bit afraid and apologetic for being seen with me. Politicians HATE controversy. If you cause controversy, you usually fail in politics. The key is being able to do very controversial things without provoking controversy. Watch the old Patrick Swayze movie, “Roadhouse” sometime and learn about how to “be nice.”
In Vino Veritas
That depends on who's gaming the system.
Diogenes314 (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 6:30PM EDT (link)The only ones I see really gaming the system are candidates like McCain who would never be nominated without triangulating the opposition and counting on early overwhelming leads. And this would be to the benefit of anyone supporting a longshot candidate who wants their vote to count. To apply it to the general election would have to be on a state by state basis (via referendum possibly), as far as applying it to the GOP primaries, all it would need would be exposure to those who run the RNC (hopefully someone capable of thinking outside the box-one of the reasons I like Steele) and grass roots support.
I can see that...and again it's a fault I have that I acknowledge...
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 8:13PM EDT (link)Again I’m not comparing myself to Patrick Henry because I don’t think I could be as eloquent as he could…the thing is he was there pointing out the outrageous behavior of the Crown, the House of Lords and the House of Commons and sicking the dogs on them…if I can do a little of that…why not…I know I’ll never be in leadership because I’m not a politician…I don’t think about who I might offend when I point out what seems to be obvious to me and I will never bend the knee to kiss someone’s ring…so…be that as it may…I still don’t get your objection to someone pointing out the fact that we need to know who our leaders are…who makes the decisions for the Party and setting about getting new blood and new ideas into the system?
I also acknowledge that it’s not easy and that you have way more experience in dealing with the cut throat aspect of this than I’ll ever have…but if things are ever going to change for the better…and if what I’m asking people to do here won’t work…can you try to point us in the right direction instead of throwing a bucket of ice water in our faces?
One other thing on this Neil
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 8:23PM EDT (link)If we wait till the primaries we give the squish leadership of the party another 2 to 4 years to game the system and freeze us out for another cycle…what sense does that make?
They game the system in the primaries.....
AceInTX (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 8:31PM EDT (link)by scheduling big blue states like early in the process and leave big red states like Texas to vote after the election has already been decided…
They also game it by having early voting states allow open primaries…
If we don’t do as I suggest in the OP and find out who our leadership is and how they do this while working to increase the Conservative’s representation at these levels of decisions we’ll be back here in 2010 and 2012 hashing the same issues over again as they lose another cycle for us…
Unless I'm mistaken...
Diogenes314 (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 9:04PM EDT (link)Texas can move their primary up anytime they like. And if we had proportional instead of winner-take-all voting in the early primaries, one candidate might have an advantage early, but it wouldn’t be game over after Super Tuesday. Of course, if certain early primary states insisted on WTA primaries, then it would be up to the RNC to ensure those with proportional voting went first. Which would be an additional incentive to reform.
Would this actually work? I think so but who knows yet. But even the attempt to reform the electoral process (unlike the idiotic campaign finance ‘reform’) would put the GOP on record as the party of reform. And even trying to expand it to the general election would attract third party voters, and let other parties know who it is trying to level the playing field.
no Ace
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 9:50PM EDT (link)that is the point, these states do no require party registration. I don’t care if my view is in the minority here, to me their is something wrong with registering your party affiliation with the state. I am for maximum freedom, minimum registration. Anyway, I don’t make the laws, we all can choose which state in which we want to abode.
Molon Labe!
Heck, I am with you
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:00PM EDT (link)and would take it even further. I think Election Day should be a holiday and that is when all able bodied people must vote. There can of course be exceptions for expats,military, and the truly sick, but this early voting scheme has become a weapon of the Demonrat Party.
Here is an example Demonrat “hey if you come with me and vote early I will give you some Mad Dog”
I do not think we need more party registration on the state level, as far as I think, the gov can keep their nose out of my business. OTOH, I am all for making it more difficult to vote, not easier. Yes, I said that liberals. Voting is a sacred right, it should be taken seriously, people should be registered (to vote) well in advance, they should have a clue about the world, and they should make an effort to participate in our Democracy.
Molon Labe!
wow Ace, you really have a burr under
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:23PM EDT (link)the saddle. And I never use western metaphors so this means I am serious lol.
I am very surprised at your response. I agreed with you in totality once you explained the forces you were up against. How you can come back with the critcism that I did not read your post is hillarious. How can I agree with you, tell you I understand your point better, then you say I did not even read your post?
You ask what I mean by the DC elite? Ok, that is mostly the media, K Street Lawrers, the chattering class etc. One paradox of true conservatives is that they must join the government to weaken its hold, many join and no longer feel the desire to reduce their own power, re. about 99 percent of the results of people’s revolutions.
I really can’t say too much more on this subject. If people are claiming McCain is a result of something other than a free election, then come out and say it, and then offer proof. The sad fact is conspiracies were not what did us is, but leaders who became part of the system and lost their electorate.
Molon Labe!
I can not believe you wrote this!
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:32PM EDT (link)“History has proven liberty inexorably gives way to tyranny as a society decays morally.”
as Malkin says “Dude”.
Molon Labe!
That is excellent writing Achance
Doc Holliday (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 10:54PM EDT (link)I do support accountability in our party, as Ace seems to. I do support grass roots efforts and sunshine, as Ace seems to. I better not say I agree with Ace or he will go off on me for ruining his diary lol.
As I said earlier, if we must fight amongst ourselves lets end it soon and start fighting Democrats. If Ace and a “coalition of the willing” want to start some cause, then they can do so, wont bother me.
Having said all that, you made some very good points. Our party was on cruise control and people took the majority for granted. In fact, we could have used our majority to deal with issues such as immigration and other ones that have now bit us in the butt.
We lost for the reasons you outlined. We will always face a confrontational media and people who are afraid of personal responsibility. We knew that going in. But we have won many elections, and now we are losing because we lost our raison d’etre. We need to focus on small government, maximum freedom, defense, and low taxes. KISS.
Molon Labe!
Challenging you isn't throwing ice water in your face.
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 1:41AM EDT (link)I actually admire the “youthful enthusiasm.” I just like to point out things that you might not have thought of.
In Vino Veritas
No bur under my saddle...or panties in a wad or undwear caught sideways here
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 9:35AM EDT (link):>)
I don’t remember why I asked if you’d read my post but it matters little at this point.
As for the people I’m fussing about…are you denying there is a leadership out there that controls the primary process…decides whether there are open primaries or close, decide where RNC funds are etc? Are you denying there are committee chairmen and committee members at the national convention that set party policy, primary rules and processes etc? Are you denying there is an establishment group that back one candidate over another with money, contributions etc? I mean come on…the same people that gave us Bush one worked on Doles Campaign worked on Bush two’s campaign, worked on McGoo’s campaign etc…and I’m going to make a prediction here that the same players will be rifing Romney all the way to the nomination next time around because I seriously believe a deal was my by these guys to back him if he dropped at at CPAC this year…I’ve been able to pick the nominee for the last 4 Presidential primaries by watching who is backing whom and they’re on the Romney wagon now…
Am I full of crap?…we’ll see in 2012
Why do you find this difficult to understand?
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 9:45AM EDT (link)Liberty inexorably gives way to tyranny when free men refuse to govern their own passions…as society’s traditional structures decay and more and more chaos ensues as men are no longer bound by any moral code…
What’s the result…in comes government to impose a moral order, regulate behavior and control more and more of our lives…
I believe this is why one of the first and formost goals of the left in this country is to continuously and relentlessly attack America’s traditional institutional and civic structures in order to maximize chaos and further their goals of expanding government.
what’s so hard to understand about that?
We agree on this by and large...
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 9:54AM EDT (link)A especially despise the WTA approach…the idea that all the delegates go for one candidate when the party folks didn’t all vote for that candidate is foolish in my mind
Ace and Doc...
Attack Mode (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 9:55AM EDT (link)I actually wrote about this around a month ago…you can see it here.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Thanks for that and don't think I don't appreciate it...
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 10:01AM EDT (link)It is frustrating though to see you so quick to point out why something won’t work while not giving suggestions on what will…
or when we agree but you insist I’m saying something I’m not like my continual statements that we need conservatives to get involved at local conventions and move up through the process…You’ve repeatedly berated me by saying the only way we can influence things is to do what I’m saying as if I never said the same thing…
Anyway I’m arguing points and don’t mean anything to be personal…with you or anyone else here
Were you replying to someone else or addressing the OP Leon?
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 10:03AM EDT (link)nt
I read it and trhink I recommended it...
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:20PM EDT (link)are of one mind on it
I know Ace...that link was more for Doc...n/t
Attack Mode (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:31PM EDT (link)n/t
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
of course...
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 1:52PM EDT (link)just pointing out we agree
Well Diogenes....it would show a higher rate of..
JadedByPolitics (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 2:48PM EDT (link)Republican voters as Rush did the same thing and then the pollsters would have this flood of Republicans and the NEWS would actually have to reflect it….
Think about the R’s in states who later had no one to vote for and registered D and than all we heard was how wide the margin is some as high as 9 percent due to flips….so if they want to register in their state and take the extra time just to vote in our primaries…so BE IT!
Unified Patriots – How-To:
Activists Taking Action
Is this what you're getting at?
Diogenes314 (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 2:53PM EDT (link)“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.” -Alexis de Tocqueville
There’s also this apocryphal quote ascribed to Alexander Tytler…
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.
That's the long way around the bush but I can't say it better
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 3:06PM EDT (link)nt
this is one of the flaws of the argument
Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 6:35PM EDT (link)we can not used words such as liberty and democracy interchaneably. Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting one what to have for dinner. Liberty is the right of the lamb to not be dinner.
I am sure I could read a lot of philosophy on the failings of one theory or another. If I get time, I will read the link posted upthread. But I still believe that liberty is the only form of moral existence for man.
The Romans did not lose their Empire because they had too much liberty, but because they became consumed with decadence. They no longer cared enough about their liberty to fight for it, they farmed out the fighting to others. They no longer cared to preserve the best frome their society and were left simply with the worst.
If some of this sounds like America today, with our poor education, lack of civic knowledge, patriotism, and history, then you see what I see. But certainly America is not inflicted with too much liberty, it is afflicted with political correctness, self-loathing, victimhood, and decadence. Most of this trash came from government in one shape or form, not from excess liberty.
Molon Labe!
but again I return to my contention that Liberty can not exist outside a moral order...
AceInTX (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 10:34PM EDT (link)the very idea that one can have a completely libertarian society without each person living by the golden rule is pure foolishness to me!
Again…a libertarian society will inexorably give way to tyranny as the government is forced to regulate more and more of our lives as those with absolute liberty trample each other in the absence of a moral order!
It’s inevitable!
this is why we can't get through to each
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 10:12AM EDT (link)other. Libertarian society IS a moral society. The key tenet of liberty is one can follow his own path but do no harm to others. I could speak of morality as much as you do but it would defeat my point. My point is morality comes from the individual, not from government.
Our Founder’s of course believed in morality. They followed the tenets of the Bible, British Common Law etc. But they risked everything to stop the tyranny of government, and created a government that protects the individual.
But to get back to the point, you misunderstand libertarianism if you think it does not include a type of morality. But since I am a libertarian-conservative, and not a pure libertarian, I do not agree with many of their tenets. I believe in following the Constitution to the letter, something this government has NOT done.
Molon Labe!
This is exactly what I'm saying
AceInTX (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 12:35PM EDT (link)But government needs to stop getting in the way of institutions that promote morality and not impose itself on the message of the churches, synagogues and other places of worship and instruction…
I’ve never thought we’re that far off from each other…I don’t want government to impose my faith on anyone but I want it to get out of the way and allow me the right to bring others around to my faith and to convince them that the golden rule is the greatest way to order a society…Our emphasis is in a different place but we share the same goal.
We are on the same page here…but there is an element of libertarianism that has no tolerance of people of faith and do everything they can to push people of faith behind the church door and shut it behind them…I’ve come to realize you are not one of them in our back and forth though you came across as one in our earlier discussions.
I’m with you pretty much 100% on what you said here.
Does this mean we have nothing left to talk about?
Doc Holliday (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 11:40PM EDT (link)that would suck
My old computer does not feel like finding your points and quoting so I will use my memory to paraphrase.
you said: We have the same goal but are just focusing on different ways to reach that goal.
I say: I completely agree. I knew we were already in agreement on 90 percent of the issues, but it was interesting figuring out how we came to slightly different ways of looking at the problem. But we are both conservatives that believe in a moral America and a free America.
you said: There are elements of Libertarians/ism that against religion and your right to promote your beliefs.
I say: Well anyone can call themselves anything. If you look at Wikipedia, they discuss many off shoots of libertarianism. I am of the Libertarian-Right, ala Milton Friedman, the Austrian School of Economics etc.
There is also a libertarian-left, that is mostly defined by the ACLU. Most of these people would not really even call themselves “libertarians”, they are “civil libertarians” and simple “left wing liberals”. Very few of these people are members of the Libertarian Party, and they do not read Reason Magazine or the stuff from CATO.
Most libertarians have consistently voted for Republicans and conservatives in the past. Ron Paul caused such a stir this time because of the war and the Bush aggressive increase of government.
I think the increased government is what angered the true libertarian conservatives, not the war. The looney anti-war kids that went for Paul early probably voted for Obama in the end.
Molon Labe!