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Standing On Principle Or Tilting At Windmills On The Abortion Issue


So…here we are…it’s been two weeks and I’m kicking my next piece on the RMSP down the road again. I’m currently engaged in a job search since the credit crisis has been a disaster for the Commercial Real Estate market. “WHERE’S MY BAILOUT?”

Anyway…I’ve learned how to use Feedly and Yoono to track front page and member posts while working on other things and at the same time track my peeps on Twitter, (Thanks Aaron G) and Facebook. Anyway, I still pop in from time to time to comment in threads that catch my attention but my time to post articles is limited.

So, I’ve recently had a back and forth with a person in a recent “Goodbye Cruel World Post” from an individual that has crossed the thin line between standing on principle and tilting at windmills.

The reason for the parting of ways according to the original poster is the policy of Front Pagers being required to be pro life to be accorded that honor of being Front Pagers.

The person leaving the site over this issue is typical of the Washington crowd and Moderates/Liberals on abortion. They demand ideological purity when it comes to their libertine views and their pet issues whether they be on fiscal or defense issues yet they have no tolerance at all for Pro Lifers and traditional marriage proponents who stand on their principles and they demand that we forget our “Pet issue” and shut up! How dare we stand for anything and how dare we commit the heresy of not appeasing their delicate sensibilities on their “pet issue”?!

My thread posts in reply to this individual and others started me thinking about doing a whole post on this since it is an issue that demands to be addressed as we try to rebuild the house that Reagan built. So…here we are…My RMSP post is delayed yet again and I’m off on a tangent.

Where to begin?

One example of the problem I want to discuss is the person who professes to be pro life, and/but can’t see why this issue is so important to some of us that it can’t be put aside indefinitely. Other issues take precedence over abortion in their mind.

Then there are those that say they are pro life but in favor of a woman’s right to chose.  Again, if you are pro life and believe abortion is the taking of life…how does one person’s right to chose to kill another person take precedence over the other individuals right to live?

So, they are pro life, (which by definition is a belief that abortion is murder) yet they can’t see why allowing 1.5 million abortions to be legally committed every year isn’t something that shouldn’t be put off for the foreseeable future or even permanently while we deal with other “more important issues.”

They more often than not will go out of their way to ensure Pro Choice Moderates and Independents aren’t offended by the majority of this party. To this person the expansion of the “big tent” is the be all and end all of politics. Yet somehow the people that are expected to sacrifice to grow this tent are SoCons and those who care about abortion or traditional marriage.

Next we have the RMSPers who put the tent above all else. These people are the worse of the bunch because they will compromise with any group on every issue in the Republican platform to “expand the tent.” But the Pro Life Majority of the Party is a different matter entirely. For these people there can be no compromise with us. We are to shut up and be seen but not heard…We don’t matter even though we’re the majority of the Party. Anything goes with this bunch but somehow they’re never expected to sacrifice for the tent while the rest of us are expected to do all in our power to forward their pro-choice/pro gay marriage agenda!

Then there’s the canard that we have to run people who can win in blue/purple states followed with a line about “true believers” losing “valiantly” as if anyone is arguing we shouldn’t run people who can win in blue states…Nobody with any brains is making that argument…the issue is and always has been the idea that the majority of us shouldn’t be expected to knuckle under to this minority once they’ve arrived!

For these folks, presumably Pro Lifers should be happy to accept second class status within the party to expand the tent and just forget an issue that fur us is the basis of all other rights guaranteed under the Constitution. On top of that, apparently there is no problem whatsoever with Pro Lifers being made second class citizens by people who profess to want to “Team build.” The self same people that make us second class citizens in the Republican Party are the very ones that grouse about our intolerance driving others from the party…Uhm…excuse me…shouldn’t the first step in “Team building” be to stop demonizing your own team members and consigning them to second class citizenship?

So….Putting the shoe on another foot…lets try a hypothetical to dive home my central point:

What if the Party said FisCons should shut up about the bail out fever currently overwhelming us because we need to “Expand the tent” and “we can’t win with just Fiscal Conservatives and we need to appeal to the middle on fiscal issues”? Ditto socialized health care? Or increasing taxes? What if the party decided that the only way to save the auto industry is to reinstate the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act to protect American Industry?

What if the Republican Party decided that DefCons should shut up about winning the War On Terror and immediately pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan because we need to “Expand the tent” and “we can’t win with just Defense and Foreign Policy Conservatives and we need to appeal to the middle on Defense issues?” What if the party decided military spending is taking money that could better be spent on bailouts and universal health care and call for an immediate cut of 50% of all defense spending?

To the leadership in the Republican Party…Please tell me…why is it that the SoCon wing of the party is expected to remain a part of this grand coalition but we shouldn’t expect a place at the table on abortion, or traditional marriage? Why is it that we can’t expect the party to stand up to the anti-religious pogrom being directed at us by radical secularists and the “gay rights” crowd whose main purpose is to minimize us and make us pariahs in our own country?

Growing the party and expanding the “big tent” is the goal for you?…So…how do you expect it to grow by picking up maybe 5% to 10% of moderates and independents while at the same time ticking off and alienating 40+% of the party by doing so?

And why would you assume we owe this Party anything if it refuses to represent us?

HMMM?

Finally, I’m all about the stool… It does indeed take a coalition of all three legs to make a majority…so where does this idea come from that the coalition ends at the SoCon leg where we’re expected to tow the party line and expect nothing in return? I, like Reagan, support the big tent but not when expanding it means painting “Pale Pastels.” I’m rare in that I support the whole stool…To be sure, SoCons aren’t the only ones that keep getting preached at by the country club set and the leadership of the Republican Party on compromising our principles to expand the “big tent”…but we’re certainly on the front pew and we’re always the ones wearing the dunce cap at the front of the class!

The issue at hand and the main point of my column is “yes we need a “big tent”…and we win with a three legged stool…but to say one leg of the stool has to give up on their principles to appease the other two legs puts things in the wrong order!” Where we’re getting in trouble is with a coalition of naysayers and malcontents from each leg working, (some consciously, some unconsciously and some banding together with others from each leg), to undermine the goals of SoCons and the party as a whole!

What we need as a party is for each leg of the stool to stand up for its principles and stop insisting that each of the other legs give up on their own principles. We as a Party can only stand on three legs…and we can stand taller based on how strong each leg is! By continuously gnawing at the SoCon leg we end up weakening the whole stool!

The key to this thing is that if each leg stands up for their issues they can count on large segments of the other legs to support them in their causes. In those instances where some from one leg insist on silencing an entire leg…they must be resisted by the rest of us. An attack on one leg must be recognized as an attack on the whole stool. Once we recognize this reality we will again achieve majority status and likely maintain it.

But let any two legs continue to actively attack the remaining leg and tear it down at every turn?

Well we richly deserve the place we now find ourselves!

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COMMENTS

  • Pingback: aceintx?s blog ? Standing On Principle Or Tilting At Windmills On …

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com LJ “Beaglescout” Miller

    They will win by explaining their principles and their plans in ordinary, common-sense language that everybody understands. The common-sense ideas Americans have thought up all through our history all still work. Classical Liberal ideas are still overwhelmingly popular among Americans, whether they are phrased the way Locke phrased them, or Rothbard, Rand, or Reagan’s way.

    Remember, the Revolutionary War started over a 2% tax on tea. Our present tax burden is vastly worse than the spark that lit the war that founded us as a nation. There is a huge, pent-up demand for classical liberalism and we are the ones who by rights should offer it up.

  • Diogenes314

    You might want to reread the original post.

    I?m willing to accept being a second-class citizen in the Republican party because there are more important issues than abortion right now and Democrats just can?t be trusted to run things. However, it?s still not smart to rub in that ?you?re not a real conservative? stuff too deep. It doesn?t do a lot for team-building. Plus, keep in mind that to win back the Congress we have to start running people that can win in bluish-purple states. ?True believers? that lose valiantly don?t do us any good.

    First off?if you?re pro life as you profess to be, what issue is more pressing than the systematic elimination of 1.5 million children every year? Oh and don?t worry about all those lost to this butchery, we?ll get around to them some day?!

    Then there?s the canard that we have to run people who can win in blue/purple states followed with a line about ?true believers? losing ?valiantly? as if anyone is arguing we shouldn?t run people who can win in blue states?Nobody with any brains is making that argument?the issue is and always has been the idea that the majority of us shouldn?t be expected to knuckle under to this minority once they?ve arrived!

    Most infuriating in this line of thinking is this ?I?m willing to accept being a second-class citizen in the Republican party because there are more important issues than abortion right now?? Presumably Pro Lifers should be happy to accept second class status since this person is happy to consign himself to the same status. On top of that, apparently there is no problem whatsoever with Pro Lifers being made second class citizens by people who profess to want to ?Team build?? These self same people that make us second class citizens in the Republican Party are the very ones that grouse about our intolerance driving others from the party?Uhm?excuse me?but shouldn?t the first step in ?Team building? be to stop demonizing your own team members and consigning them to second class citizenship?

    I know?that?s one person referring to second class citizenship?but that?s only one that?s willing to tell the truth about their thinking on this?many who think it would never say it!

    • AceInTX

      and if you read my post I’m discussing those who say they are pro life but have no problem ignoring life issues.

      I even called this person out for their inconsistency:

      First off?if you?re pro life as you profess to be, what issue is more pressing than the systematic elimination of 1.5 million children every year? Oh and don?t worry about all those lost to this butchery, we?ll get around to them some day?!

      • Diogenes314

        Because I got the opposite imjpression…

        It?s fine for the website?s creators to make rules that suit their purposes. They control the space – they make the rules and people can stay or leave accordingly.

        I would point out that while the majority view in the Republican party is pro-life, it?s not unanimous. There are many Republicans for whom abortion is not the main issue that motivates them to go to the polls. John McCain is pro-life. He?s generally pretty strong on national defense with the exception of the immigration issue. I think he?s usually a fiscal conservative. I was happy to vote for him on 11/4 because he was far closer to my views than Barack Obama, and I have a heck of a lot more respect for Sen. McCain. If Sen. McCain made it a point to tell every pro-choice American that they weren?t welcome in his party, I probably still would have voted for him this year, but it would have been a lot more grudging and my checkbook would have remained closed. Imagine my very great displeasure to discover that many of my fellow Republicans sat this race out because of old grudges against Sen. McCain or purity principles that wouldn?t let them support him vs. a socialist.

        Republicans can?t win if the social conservatives sit home because they?re ticked about abortion (or something else). We probably also can?t win if pro-choice Republicans that are with us on the fiscal and defense issues absorb the message that they?re untrustworthy, baby-killing squishes that should be purged. Or if as in 2006, the fiscal conservatives decide to sit home. I?m willing to accept being a second-class citizen in the Republican party because there are more important issues than abortion right now and Democrats just can?t be trusted to run things. However, it?s still not smart to rub in that ?you?re not a real conservative? stuff too deep. It doesn?t do a lot for team-building. Plus, keep in mind that to win back the Congress we have to start running people that can win in bluish-purple states. ?True believers? that lose valiantly don?t do us any good.

        • AceInTX

          advocates back burnering the issue to get other things done…You have a point however that they could be arguing the other way…I’ll rewrite that part of my post.

          Thanks for drawing my attention to this.

          • AceInTX

            http://www.redstate.com/aceintx/2008/12/12/standing-on-principle-or-tilting-at-windmills-on-the-abortion-issue-updated/

            NT

  • IL_Glock21

    Infighting among factions of a party is normal, and indeed expected, among those of a coalition party. Unlike parliamentary systems we don’t have the luxury of forming a coalition of parties after the election to choose the executive, so the two largest big-tent parties form a coalition within themselves prior to it.

    But these issues need to be hashed out in the primaries. The resulting candidate is unlikely to make all factions happy on all issues all of the time. Some factions are going to feel left out in the cold and be highly tempted, if not defiantly swearing, to take their ball and go home… even if that means that the end result is an admittedly worse candidate who will admittedly push for even more policies they disagree with and to admittedly greater degrees.

    By the time the general rolls around, about the only choices left are voting for a lesser evil or either directly or indirectly aiding a greater evil to win. The claims of a principled stand will fall on deaf ears to the other factions since the choice is between supporting most principles or abandoning most or all of them.

    After a loss that appears to be due to lower turnout, all factions start the finger pointing… the supporters of the candidate that lost point the finger at the factions that continued to attack the nominee long into the general election… the disgruntled factions will point the finger at the faction(s) that didn’t take their concerns seriously enough. The resentment becomes animosity. The accusations and name calling start to fly… disagreements on defense lead to attacks on loyalty to country, disagreements on fiscal policy lead to accusations of socialism, and disagreements on social policy lead to accusations of religious extremism or being anti-christian.

    Meanwhile the opposing party starts popping popcorn for the show and starts feeling all warm and fuzzy that their victory looks to have some staying power as the rival coalition tears itself apart.

    In this case the opposing party is no more immune to infighting and factionalism than the other, so in time they’ll inevitably be back on the losing side tearing themselves apart with endless and unproductive blame games between the wilsonians and pacifists, the average union guys versus the radical social liberals, the keynesians and the democratic socialists, etc etc.

    But relying on their failures or their propensity to nominate some mind-boggling candidates isn’t enough. With the right electoral environment, this election has shown, they can still tear each other to pieces in a primary, produce a horribly inexperienced candidate, and push policies that would otherwise turn off most voters… and win.

    Meanwhile the conservatives were busy firebombing their arguably flawed candidate from almost all sectors. The Kathleen Parker types after the Palin pick… the Dobson types before the Palin pick… the libertarian leaner types like Gun Owners of America constantly… the hawks off and on over disagreements on torture/gitmo… etc etc etc.

    While some may want to blame any one of these groups/factions within the party for the loss, that’d be a tough case given all the other contributing factors such as the overwhelming unpopularity of the incumbent, the shift in party label support generally, the cult of personality of the opposing candidate, the flaws in campaign strategy and longstanding factional conflicts that precluded any major organizational effort on his behalf, etc etc etc.

    All of these factors may have made this election very well may have been doomed for the GOP regardless of the candidate they nominated. A theory tossed around quite a bit even before the campaign season went into high gear and before it was ultimately lost.

    But what’s to gain by tearing each other down afterward? To help ensure a divided party for the next round, which depending on how Obama plays his cards could be similarly difficult to pull off?

    The anti-SoCon folks need to take this post to heart just as much as the anti-Squish folks do or the anti-interventionalists or the anti-this/that/the-other-faction do.

    Many, if not most, of the disagreements are based on strong convictions that are unlikely or absolutely not going to change. Compromise won’t usually be a realistic option on policy, but that shouldn’t remove all hope for compromise on a coalition candidate when the alternative is worse on those pivotal issues and on many others. On the national level a no-compromise stance on a candidate becomes untenable due to the diversity of opinion of the electorate in general elections. No compromise becomes a no-win situation. The libertarian party is learning this in an almost embarrassing way as they continue to lose to other 3rd parties for the past 20 years. For all the screaming and adherence to purity over winning, there’s no room for partial victories, only total defeat.

    If a three legged candidate wins the primary in 2012 or beyond, this issue becomes mostly moot. But in the likely chance that the candidate will have imperfections, even some major ones, hopefully the party can have enough cohesion to at least fight as one for a partial victory than another total defeat.

    • AceInTX

      I agree with most of it and take issue with a few points.

      The most important in all of this is that those in each leg that are three leggers can’t continue to sit back while others in the party attack it…an attack on one leg is an attack on the whole stool since it can’t stand on two legs.

      Each leg has it’s detractors within the party but I focused on the SoCon leg of the stool because it is the one that is most often under attack from radical libertarians and left wing Republican groups. Only the SoCon wing has specific groups within the party whose sole reason for existence is to attack and eliminate the existence of that leg of the stool…You have the Republican Leadership Council, The Republican Main Street Partnership, The Republicans for Choice, The Log Cabin Republicans, It’s my party too, Pro Choice Republicans etc…

      We’re seen as the hicks and yahoos of the party that needs to be marginalized and pushed into a dark corner by the Washington elites and leadership of the party….We’re the crazy aunt in the attick!

      • IL_Glock21

        It seems both sides of the divide you’re focusing on feel that they’re being the reasonable ones and the other side is organizing to make them sit on the bench during the big plays.

        Worse, there are some on both sides that get the distinct impression that they’re being tossed out of the game altogether, or into the proverbial ‘lion’s den.’

        Sadly there are plenty of folks on both sides that help solidify this impression in various rants and accusations, even if it isn’t accurate in general.

        For all the groups you consider anti-socon, there are those on the other side of that divide who generally look at the the diehard socon groups as being equally intolerant of their views and taking a ‘either support us or get out of our way’ approach.

        Both sides feel that they’re being reasonable, while the other is not, and both tend to justify their views that are far more compelling to their own side than to the other, if they’re compelling to the other side at all. They’ll both be duking it out in the primaries for some time to come… but each side hurts the whole when they let those disagreements result in total defeat instead of partial victory.

        The accusations add to the resentment. The claims of victimization get scoffs from those they accuse of victimizing them, as they consider the other side to be the one trying to force them to adhere to ideas against their principles through some antagonistic organized effort.

        Arguments, like the recent one on a libertarian/classical liberal approach to being pro-life, are far more productive, imo. I was happy to see that front paged as it generally falls along the lines of my own arguments for restricting abortion… but had some compelling arguments justifying going beyond the restrictions I generally support.

        Unlike the disputes that solidify the us vs them infighting between the factions, it built a bridge of common interest and provided an argument from what many might consider a competing perspective (especially given that it could be described as a secular argument for being pro-life).

        And though there will always be some issues where the factions may just have to agree to disagree, attempts at bridge building help the cohesion on shared concerns in spite of the disagreements where their base convictions may otherwise prevent agreement.

        [and apologies for being overly verbose... I'm concise-impaired]

        • AceInTX

          I did rant in this but I tried to tie it up at the end by saying I’m not fired up about those who take a different approach than me or belive something different that me…my issue is with a group that is in the minority opinion Lording it over the majority.

          My issue is with those who know they are in the minority who aren’t content to work in the areas where they agree with the majority of us but insist on having their way and freezing out what the majority of us are trying to accomplish…

          Let me give you an example where I stray from the Party line…That would be free trade…I’m not a protectionist by any means but I’m not an absolutist on trade by any means. I know I’m in the minority in the party on this issue and I leave it alone because I know I’m in the minority and I want to work with those I disagree with on this issue to accomplish what we can for the whole cause.

          That’s what I mean in my post where I say an attack on one leg by a distinct minority from one or both of the other legs need to be taken as an attack on the whole stool…If you’re in the minority you don’t get to tell the majority what to do!

  • Aaron Gardner

    n/t really..n/t

    • AceInTX

      http://www.redstate.com/aceintx/2008/12/12/standing-on-principle-or-tilting-at-windmills-on-the-abortion-issue-updated/

      • Aaron Gardner

        n.t

        • AceInTX

          and be on the member diaries the rest of the day…my old one was posted late last night and was practically off the board before I got up this AM.

          Tactics Bro

          :>)

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            The sidebar isn’t there to be tactically played with.

          • Leon H. Wolf

            Given that I have been checking in regularly to delete non-substantive diaries. Thus, if your diary was bumped off the list, it was bumped off by people who made at least a minimal effort in their own diaries. There’s nothing that makes your effort more special than theirs.

          • AceInTX

            I explained it to Niel and will expand here by way of explanation. As I told Niel I thought that taking the quotes out and reworking it as I did it justified a re-post. I obviously was wrong in that assumption and ask your forgiveness.

            As for whether mine is more important that one line posts that you’ve been deleting…The only reason I would differ with you is that I had to go to considerable effort to take out the quotes I posted and commented on and had to work pretty hard to redirect the discussion to make the article flow and make sense. In many ways that was harder for me than sitting down and writing a new post from scratch.

            That being said…but obviously bow to your judgment.and promise it won’t happen again…

            Lord knows I’ve learned a lot of hard lessons around here…and this is another to add to the list…

            Again my sincerest apologies.

          • AceInTX

            The reason I reworked it and made it a second diary is because by taking the quotes of the person I criticized out, it changed the tenor and direction of the piece enough to justify a different header and post…I meant no offence and was just cutting up with Aaron

          • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

            Edit the diary, don’t repost. That’s bad form.

          • AceInTX

            ny

          • E Pluribus Unum

            Hey brother, you gotta spell it N-E-I-L. Not the ‘i’ before ‘e’ rule here.

          • AceInTX

            I’ll go back and change it 1 out of three times but anyway…I put the i first every time I type it