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In response to “The Republican Pro-Life Plank”

I was originally simply going to write a response in the comments section of Vassar Bushmills blog titled “The Republican Pro-Life Plank, a Philosophical Stance or a Political Stance? Or Both?” but decided that it was a complex enough subject with enough people on both sides of the issue that it was more appropriate to simply spell out a counter argument in my own diary.

The first issue I have with the point of view expressed is the premise. This is not an issue that needs any moral standing in order to be conservative.  The simple fact is that the founders of this country believed that there were granted rights and that there were natural rights.  Natural rights include life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness.  They saw the truth in these rights to be self evident, as in beyond contestation.  To deprive an American citizen of life completely at the behest of another (in other words not a death row inmate who was convicted by a jury of his peers) is to deprive them of one of the most basic natural rights.  A right which our government, according to our founding documents, does not have the authority to grant or deny.  You do not have to be a Christian to subscribe to this point of view, nor do you have to be a “Bible thumper.”  This is basic stuff related to our founding and for conservatives is the only step we need to go to in order to defend the pro-life position.

Empowered individual states are of course an important fortification against the possibility of tyranny by a central federal government.  And the right of states to differentiate themselves from one another allows people to “vote with their feet” and live where the laws and regulations suit their ideologies.  I choose to live in South Carolina because it is closer to my values and beliefs then living in New York.  I live in SC vs NC because SC has lower state taxes, etc etc.  This does not detract from the role and responsibility of the Federal Government to enforce certain laws ahead of the desires of the states.

When Terry Schiavo was being forcibly starved to death at the whim of her soon to be ex-husband, the Republican congress stepped in and the battle cry from the left was predictable and hollow.  ”I thought Republican’s were for state’s rights!”, they cried.  Being for state’s rights does not mean NEVER being for federal pre-emption.  For instance if Texas decided to go to war with Mexico, I have a feeling that the Federal Government might be allowed to step in and exert some authority over it’s Governor.

If we can all agree that State’s rights does not including trumping that which falls under the discretion of the federal government then the obvious next question would be the basic pro-life vs pro-choice argument.  Is a fetus alive?

I’ll save us the drama of going through the arguments since this is a conservative website and say simply this: If you’re of the position that a fetus is not alive, then the argument we need to have is clearly scientific (not philosophical) in that we need to determine when a life begins in order to move forward.  If you’re of the position that a fetus IS alive, then, as a conservative, you have no business trying to make this a state’s rights issue.  Life is a basic natural right which no state has a right to make decisions on.  I’d sooner hear the argument that assisted suicide should be a state’s rights issue then to hear that killing babies is.

The other premise that I reject is that this is somehow a losing or divisive point for Republicans & Conservatives.  Last I checked, the public was much more pro-life then pro-choice.  Why do we need to start sacrificing our belief that there are natural God given rights that are protected by the government but in no way granted by them?  To have a “bigger tent”?  No thanks.  First of all, the “big tent” doctrine has failed miserably.  If these last 15 months have proven anything it is this: It’s not the size of the tent or the people you “allow” in; it’s whether or not you are standing by a clear set of principles that relate directly to our founding.  All of our differences don’t have to be separate legislative issues.  We only need to agree on a few to be in good company and let the rest live themselves out in the market of ideas and in the culture.  One of those few that we should agree on is the defense of an American citizen’s right to be alive.  To exist.  That should, I would think, be a fairly basic conservative and Republican principle.

There’s just some things that are too important for us to pretend that they are simple disagreement that should be left up to the states.  We may have separate governments, separate laws, and separate beliefs.  But ALL states are unified by the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence & The Bill of Rights.  Find me within these documents where it indicates that a state has the right to determine life and death for citizens with no voices and you’ll make a constitutional revisionist out of me.

COMMENTS

  • JSobieski

    A conservative enacts laws solely for moral purposes. The power of government is not something to be wielded except in limited ways for limited purposes.

    Laws against murder are based on morality. Laws against abortion would have a similar basis.

    There are categories of laws with no direct moral purpose, but even those laws have an indirect moral purpose. For example, traffic laws have a moral purpose in limited accidents and fostering freedom to travel.

    To a conservative, a law without a moral purpose is a law that should be repealed.

  • kyoufuu

    When she did die, the autopsy showed that she had no brain activity and that the cause of her state was not due to any foul play by her husband. Just a bit of an FYI.

    I read (most of) Vassar’s diary, and the point was that there are pro-choice conservatives out there who agree that Roe was bad case law. His point was that there is common ground to be found. Your response seems to be to wave your hand, paint a picture in simple black and white and state: “If you’re pro-choice, don’t try to make Roe v. Wade into a state’s rights issue. Just go away, because you’re no conservative.”

    This completely ignores the fact that there are many who are pro-life who agree in regards to the constitutional principles of Roe.

    I understand there is a desire to paint such issues in terms of black & white, right & wrong. But not everyone shares that worldview. And certainly there are instances where we can say that one person’s inalienable rights outweigh another’s. Consider the plank of carneades or the willingness of many to overlook abortion in the case of rape or incest. Even the dissenters in Roe said that there might be some order of importance in which rights are to be placed, but the court did not have a standing in which to determine that order. The court could not dictate to the states the order and priority of values.

    I’m not arguing everyone should be pro-choice. All I’m saying is that we do a great disservice to the conservative cause by not trying to use an optimal strategy. By constantly disagreeing on the method to reach a specific goal, we run the risk of ending up like Buridan’s donkey.

    • houstoneagle

      on this issue can agree that Roe (et al) is (are) bad law and should be overturned

  • aesthete

    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

    Since deciding the penalty for murder is not a power delegated to the federal government, it follows that abortion restrictions are similarly the purview of state governments. Also, neither the Declaration of Independence nor natural rights are legally binding in any way, and as such, shouldn’t be used to determine the Constitutionality of having states as the deciding authority for abortion laws. Suffice it to say, your example of Texas going to war with Mexico doesn’t hold, because the power to declare war and manage foreign policy has been entrusted to Congress and the President, not the states. And yes, assisted suicide, the Drug War, and several other things that the federal government is currently undertaking should be delegated to the states. The Terri Schiavo situation was unfortunate, but the fact remains that the federal government involved itself in the issue in a most un-Constitutional manner.

    Considering that even in liberal Europe, there are far more restrictions on abortion than post-Roe v Wade America, what makes you think that the situation will be any worse under a federalist paradigm than under the current setup? (And if you’re for a constitutional amendment, you are effectively pro status quo, considering the improbability of passing such an amendment).

  • Ben Howe

    Is expressly pointed out as one of three unalienable rights (life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness.

    The definition of unalienable is “incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another.”

    Therefore, since they are non-transferrable rights that are not granted to us by the government, it is clear that the states do NOT have the right to make their own determination.

  • redneck_hippie

    Whether we challenge Roe in court or strike it down in legislation, it is unconstitutional.

    We got rid of the DC gun ban without a constitutional amendment. I don’t see why we can’t do the same with abortion law.

    My preferred republican plank would be pro-life and constitutional originalist. Judges may not agree that a fetus has constitutional rights. Then we have our work cut out for us to show that where puppy abuse is grounds for loss of liberty, the destruction of a fetus is as well. We put people in jail for “exposing” a newborn before its second breath. We can punish these before-first-breath murders as well. The moral argument will win people over and elect conservatives who will uphold the constitution and nominate originalist judges. Why is a baby not human until he exhales CO2 which the court says is a pollutant. The rulings of the court are not sacred, stare decisis is not the tablets and 9 guys in black robes are not infallible.

    Murder is illegal in all 50 states. As the abhorrence of abortion becomes more prevalent, there is every reason to think we will prevail.

  • Ben Howe

    but in case you missed what I wrote below:

    The right to life is expressly pointed out as one of three unalienable rights (life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness.

    The definition of unalienable is ?incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another.?

    Therefore, since they are non-transferrable rights that are not granted to us by the government, it is clear that the states do NOT have the right to make their own determination.

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    Look, some things shouldn’t be left up to states. The practice of human ownership, for example, is NOT one that should have been left up to municipalities or state governments. Ultimately, we’re dealing with peoples’ lives in that situation, and allowing such a practice to continue negated everything we purportedly valued when this country started.

    Abortion is today’s slavery. It is built largely on the premise that a fetus “belongs” to the mother, not as a human being and, therefore, a responsibility, but as a simple object to be kept or discarded as seen fit. This premise is wrong here, just as it was when Plantation owners thought it about the folks out in their fields.

    My kids are mine — but I don’t, and shouldn’t, have the right to simply NOT care for them, or to toss them aside, or to murder them, as I see fit. They are my children; not my property. A fetus — by any responsible scientific definition, a living human being — needs to be given the same status.

  • houstoneagle

    While your opening quote is accurate, you forgot about the 14th amendment: (excerpt) “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

    Also, Article 6: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the SUPREME Law of the Land; and the Judges in EVERY STATE SHALL BE BOUND THEREBY.

    Supremacy Clause + deprivation of life forbidden = Your opening quote is inapplicable here because we are talking about a “power prohibited by it [the Constiution].”

    Usually I am defending states’ rights, but you have taken the pendulum too far the other way. Would you ignore the two clauses I just quoted in the name of states’ rights? Might as well go back to the Articles of Confederation, then. See how that works out for ya.

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    This is something I’ve said in every discussion we’ve had on this subject. You’re dead on with this, and the rest of your points as well.

    That said, while the ultimate goal of totally destroying this barbarianism is vital, we ARE talking about lives. Thousands every day we don’t do SOMETHING to curb the tide.

    This is going to have to happen in steps. Our first goal must be the overturning of Roe v. Wade — and it’s SUCH a faulty decision on so many levels, that this shouldn’t be hard IF we strike hard and fast (read: before the liberals gain another seat on SCOTUS).

    Second step, as part of the first, will be to revert to States’ Rights. It may not be ideal in this situation, but it WILL save lives, AND, it will help to deal with those pesky “taxpayer-funded abortions” we keep having to worry about.

    Many states will outlaw this practice. And it will buy us time to draft proper legislation.

    A Constitutional amendment may or may not be a pipe dream (let’s face it… they’re damned near impossible, and they’re that way on purpose), but reverting to state’s rights may well help us to get the nation into the right mindset to pass it.

  • Doc Holliday

    btw, slavery did not negate our Constitutional values, our Constitutional values set in motion the end of slavery.

  • JSobieski

    Without a similar amendment for abortion, the issue goes back to the states except to the extent that equal protection comes into play.

    However, you should note that states already have varying laws with respect to justified self defense, aggravating/mitigating factors for murder, criminal punishments, “right” to die, medical powers of attorney, etc.

    So I think the equal protection argument wouldn’t and in fact shouldn’t prevail. It would just be Roe in reverse..

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    “slavery did not negate our Constitutional values, our Constitutional values set in motion the end of slavery.”

    Yes, I know. Notice, I didn’t say Constitutional values (think they call that a straw man: it’s not what I said, and it wasn’t my point)? My point is that the practice of slavery negates the concept of freedom and justice — of “all men being created equal.” I’m not saying anything about the Constitution in that, nor even about the country itself. My comment refers only to the institution of slavery, and the fact that it stands in opposition to values of liberty.

  • SteveLA

    Ben

    So what is the construct of the abortion plank that you assert that conservatives should support? That’s probably the real argument, how strict a plank should there be.

    The all abortions should be banned, life begins at conception, no exceptions for rape, incest or the life of the mother? That’s about 23 percent of the population’s view plank.

    Or legal under some limited circumstances plank?

    There is a difference, and the 40 some percent of people surveyed on abortion who self identify as pro-life support legal under limited circumstances.

    It is clear that a large number of the Republican base can be counted among the 23 percent who think all abortions should be illegal, but it is not clear at least to me that the Republicans as a whole support that position.

    My numbers are from a 2009 Gallup survey.

  • penguin2

    as well. Nothing has changed for us regarding our passion and desperate desire to stop the atrocity of abortion. It makes sense to start somewhere….I said in Vassar’s diary:

    How do we stop shooting ourselves in the foot and getting nothing for our efforts. The moral ground still belongs to us and going about this in a logical manner to keep the Left from using our own morality against us in the arguments?.that is a reasonable goal. We have to start somewhere. So far, nothing we have done for the past 37yrs. has worked, the number of unborn killed only exploded, despite our intentions and desperation to stop the atrocity.

    I said the same thing about the Constitution protecting life, yet it has not done so; I am afraid it will not change in my lifetime. At this point I am willing to seek some reasonable moves for some relief for the murdered babies. If all we can do is get it to the states, so be it. Nothing stops us from continuing the fight in each and every state.

  • Doc Holliday

    but why would I set up a straw man against you? I was once a huge Civil War guy. Many people who focus on the Civil War tend to downplay what came before, this is a view pushed by Ken Burns and Shelby Foote.

    But when you really study the Revolutionary era, and the Constitutional Convention, you see that slavery did not negate our values at all. The acceptance of slavery was what allowed our nation to form. Those words about the rights of man grated for a long time and the Civil War was a result. The end of slavery was not the goal of the Union when the war started, but the victors, and many of the vanquished realized the time finally came to make right with our values.

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    But those who understood what they were writing knew that’s what it was – an evil (so we don’t continue talking past eachother — I KNOW why it was left in, and I know why the 3/5 compromise was the way it was–brilliant on their part, ftr). And it had to end.

    My point is simply that the founders weren’t spinning in their graves when the practice ended on a federal level. I firmly believe that, if they COULD have done away with it and still gotten the votes they needed, they WOULD have.

    Where that scans with the abortion argument is simply this: as much as slavery is an issue of human rights, so is abortion.

  • Doc Holliday

    and I really don’t have a problem with it. I tend to respond to comments and not always the diary, that is my fault. I was only trying to discuss history, not so much politics. BTW, as you know and many don’t, the 3/5ths rule was something the North wanted to reduce the South’s power, the South wanted slaves to count as full people.

    On the abortion issue I am all for reversing Roe vs. Wade first and then seeing where we stand. I think you want a Federal law banning abortion. I understand the strong feelings even though I might not feel them as strongly.

    It is not that I value life less, it is that I simply value the righteousness of our leaders less. I have a lot of questions about how a ban will be enforced and if we will not create others wrongs trying to do right.

    If there was a vote on a federal ban tomorrow I would vote for it. But I don’t think there will be a ban any time soon, do you? I hope we can have Roe overturned and then work to ban the practice in the states. But even if it is banned, and even if people are jailed, the practice will go on to some extent.

    I have a fatalistic view in many ways influenced by my Christian beliefs. I think man does his best but will always fall short. In the end, God will judge, and man can never change that fact.

  • Ben Howe

    that polls are reflecting a smaller percentage of the rigid pro-life description that I subscribe to.

    However, I would argue that a mere 20 years ago, the percentage was even smaller then it is now and that people truly believed that abortion on demand was paramount to “women’s health”.

    It has only been through our continued perseverance that the numbers have started to shift upward to a more pro-life society.

    That being said, I think that regardless of the polls, either life is an unalienable right subject to no person’s decision (rape or no) or it’s not. I don’t think that we should try to find middle ground with this if there is none to be had.

    If the right to be alive is “incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another” as it is defined, then the polls, the supreme court and the blathering of politicians are irrelevant.

    This country was absolutely founded on the idea that there are some rights that are NOT subject to the desires of the electorate or the government. Life is one of them.

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    see my stand-alone comment below.

  • breeanneh

    were not considered equal in their talents, rights & duties. The book that I am reading right now makes an important clarifying point about our founding fathers – they came from English culture and their definition of equality did to. They believed in a “natural aristocracy” and felt their rights and duties were different from slaves and women. That is why many of them were slaveholders but not hypocrites; their definition of equality was not what ours is today. Therefore, one cannot make the argument that they compromised their values for a time to get to their greater goal of freedom for slaves – that wasn’t an original goal for them. To that end, the comparison of freedom for slaves and abortion doesn’t exactly work. In church I heard the phrase, “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.” We do stand against abortion and the founding fathers would not advocate compromising that value for the purpose of beating the evil left. What does that plank include? That’s an entirely different discussion. But we stand against abortion and in that we should definately be united.

  • aesthete

    diminish. The military and law enforcement take some part of our liberty; regulation prevents us from pursuing happiness. The Declaration is a beautifully-written explanation for why the US’ denizens took control of their destinies, and why they bid adieu to Great Britain’s protective and stifling hand. “Inalienable rights” or no, if the only way that they can be enforced is from the long end of a rifle, they aren’t as “inalienable” as they might seem. Moreover, lack of abortion regulation isn’t a promotion of death, persay; rather, it is a lack of penalty for a specific type of murder. That, in my opinion, is wrong and unjust, but not a government infringement on any of those rights.

    Thanks for your reply, Ben.

  • JSobieski

    You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater.
    You can’t conduct a human sacrifice to please your god (heck, you can’t even kill an animal nowadays without an applicable government regulation)

    States have different laws that distinguish self defense from manslaughter/murder

    The government itself can kill, using capital punishment or by ordering policemen, firemen, and military personnel into situations that result in death.

    Even the right to life is not absolute if you really look at it. If a terrorist put a bomb in my stomach or otherwise loaded me up with something deadly, you have every right to kill me even though I am innocent of any wrongdoing.

    The only absolute is the right to believe what you want under the First Amendment, but that is not necessarily the right to practice any of your beliefs.

  • aesthete

    that equal protection of laws demands that we have laws protecting the unborn in a manner similar to those protecting other citizens. (Though that argument is based on the mistaken assumption that deprivation of life is treated equally in all circumstances: manslaughter, murder, and infanticide all have different legislation and penalties attached.)

    However, as you will note, the first clause of the 14th only concerns State deprivation of life, liberty, or property. Abortion as an act doesn’t involve the state, and as such, can’t be said to be a state deprivation of life. Also of note is that, if we’re to go by the spirit of the legislation, it can’t be said that the ratifiers of the 14th thought that the 14th applied to fetuses. Even Scalia, when asked if he was supportive of such reasoning, stated that the 14th applied to “walking around” humans.

    I understand the motivation behind wanting there to be a penumbra that prohibits abortion; as one of the last forms of non-government perpetrated, widespread, and socially accepted evil in the US, and the desire to erase such evil from our borders. But a federalist solution in this case is not only the most viable way to enact those changes, but is also the Constitutional way to do so,

  • houstoneagle

    Show me in the Constitution where it grants a right to an abortion, and I’ll show you in the Constitution where it specifically talks about fetuses being included as deserving equal protection.

    You have taken the concept of states rights too far.

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics

    That it is entirely within the purview of the states to make all forms of murder illegal, or if they choose, legal?

    Abortion as an act doesn?t involve the state, and as such, can?t be said to be a state deprivation of life.

    By making murder for hire legal a state is acting within its rights? What is abortion if not murder for hire?
    The federal government would have no say if, for example, rape were legalized? Or in Michigan sharia law were implemented by public officials where mullahs were allowed to pass judgment and impose sentences? Or even Christian pastors were in charge of judging and punishing their flock?

    I am about as states rights as it gets, There are some lines.

    This entire argument is similiar to the problem the Party or even the conservative movement in general is currently experiencing. Do we have the right and the will to pick a few critical principles and say if you don’t support those you can’t be one of us?
    Does the union have a right to say to the member states the same?

    Life
    Liberty
    Property
    Or get out.

  • TheSophist

    Some folks are conflating “protecting human life” with “FEDERAL protection of human life”.

    You can be a Constitutionalist and be pro-life (or pro-abortion). The Constitution itself is silent on the issue, which means that it’s a State issue in my book.

    -TS

  • aesthete

    The Constitution says absolutely nothing concerning abortion one way or another. That makes Roe v Wade wrongly decided, but would also make attempts to criminalize abortion equally incorrect. As such, the 10th Amendment prevails, and allows states to form legislation to address the problem of abortion as they see fit. If Roe v Wade ever gets repealed, I will advocate most strenuously for our state legislature to criminalize abortion in an effective manner. I would not, however, support legislation from on high, or the creation of new federal bureaucracy, to handle what should fundamentally be a state issue. I don’t want abortion to go on, but I refuse to presume that the Constitution says something that it clearly does not, even if one asks our most conservative judges.

  • aesthete

    It would make any attempts to criminalize abortion through the judicial system as it’s currently constructed incorrect. (I would certainly hope that a criminalization of abortion wouldn’t be “incorrect”!)

    Also, absolutely no hard feelings on my end. Mood is difficult to transmit on the internet, so let me assure you, I don’t have any ill feelings toward you; I just happen to disagree that the federal government and the judiciary system are the appropriate avenues for the pro-life movement.

  • houstoneagle

    States are violating the right of unborn children to live and to enjoy the equal protection of the law (punishment for their murderer the same as if a “walking around” human got murdered). The Fourteenth Amendment prohibits this violation of rights and makes it a matter of federal jurisdiction.

    Your argument is premised on unborn children not being people.

    You speak of “attempts to criminalize abortion,” but abortion is already illegal; it is in violation of many laws, not the least of which is the Fourteenth Amendment to the Supreme Law.

    This argument is what a prochoicer would make, or a Ronulan. If you’re a prochoicer, then this site probably isn’t right for you (double entendre intended). If you’re a Ronulan, I’m sure there are some great libertarian websites to post on. There’s states rights, and then there’s the Ronulans who think the Constitutional amendment process stopped at the Bill of Rights.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I also think that a blanket national abortion ban would be unconstitutional.

    I dare you to call me a Ronulan or pro-abort. Double dog dare you.

  • aesthete

    And I suppose that such an accusation concludes any attempt at having a reasonable conversation on the issue. It’s late (at least it over here, and I assume in TX as well), so I’ll just chalk your response up to your being tired, or (horror of horrors!) a miscommunication on my part. At any rate, if such a belief makes me pro-choice, then I guess I’m in good company with Fred Thompson and others.

  • http://thesandsinstitute.org Vassar Bushmills

    …but I’ll bow to the various arguments put up by others above.

    I raised a political issue, i.e, the existence of the plank (pro-Life), vs a different plank (ending Roe), not a constitutional, not a philosophical/moral/religious one.

    As proved in the comments here, when you try to parse a political strategy with moralisms and legalisms, even among friends, you find a lot of unnecessary nipping at heels over things that have nothing to do with the political goal, which is to create common ground with people you otherwise wouldn’t like, but with whom you need to join together to defeat a common, mad-dog murdering enemy.

    Or something like that.

  • houstoneagle

    If the Supreme Court reverses Roe v. Wade, Casey, et al (the abortion rulings) and instead of returning it to the states decides to issue a sweeping ruling that hinges on the 14th amendment, imposing it on the states via the supremacy clause…would that count as an unconstiutional blanket national abortion ban?

    Methinks you would first need to repeal the 14th to make the case that it would be just as much an abuse of Court power to do that as it was to affirm abortion using the faulty reasoning it did in the past.

    Can’t you at least agree that the Court has a whole lot more authority to impose such a ban nationwide under explicit 14th amendment verbiage than it ever did to impose abortion on demand via an inferred right to privacy?

    P.S.: This also serves as a response to aesthete. I’m glad you guys aren’t prochoice or Ronulan, I was just saying I could not differentiate your Constitutional perspectives from positions they would take. I was obviously wrong about prochoice and that went too far on my part and for that I am sorry. But you could see hopefully how I would think it was Ronulanesque, at least.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    Courts don’t have the authority to set policy.

  • houstoneagle

    “It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department [the judicial branch] to say what the law is. Those who apply the rule to particular cases must, of necessity, expound and interpret that rule. If two laws conflict with each other, the Courts must decide on the operation of each.

    So, if a law [e.g., a statute or treaty] be in opposition to the Constitution, if both the law and the Constitution apply to a particular case, so that the Court must either decide that case conformably to the law, disregarding the Constitution, or conformably to the Constitution, disregarding the law, the Court must determine which of these conflicting rules governs the case. This is of the very essence of judicial duty. If, then, the Courts are to regard the Constitution, and the Constitution is superior to any ordinary act of the Legislature, the Constitution, and not such ordinary act, must govern the case to which they both apply.

    Those, then, who controvert the principle that the Constitution is to be considered in court as a paramount law are reduced to the necessity of maintaining that courts must close their eyes on the Constitution, and see only the law [e.g., the statute or treaty].

    This doctrine would subvert the very foundation of all written constitutions.”

    If your bomb-toss of “Courts don’t have the authority to set policy” is true, then what are Courts but mere opinion-givers, subject to the mere whim of the other ostensibly co-equal branches of government as to whether those opinions are given effect?

  • JSobieski

    and courts can only strike down laws when presented with cases that are ripe.

    The Supreme Court has a limited power of negation when it comes to law.

    The Supreme Court can’t for example say “We adopt the House Health Care Reform Bill as the law of the land because it is constitutionally necessary”

    There have been a couple of controversial exceptions to that rule (for example, school busing and a court in Kansas requiring a tax increase for schools), but those examples are outliers that should in any case be condemned not followed. Moreover, the exceptions were at least losely based the Civil Rights Act, so the courts weren’t expressly making things up out of full cloth,

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    It was a pure power grab and it was shameful (but typical) that Thomas Jefferson went with political expediency over principle and went along with it.

  • http://dreamsfrommyforefathers.com RoguePolitics
  • TheSophist

    Roe is unconstitutional because it overreaches.

    The DC gun ban was unconstitutional because of the Second Amendment.

    Puppy abuse is grounds for loss of liberty under state law; you can criminalize abortion all you want in your state. You cannot do so at the Federal level without a Constitutional Amendment — at least not while calling yourself a constitutional conservative.

    Murder is illegal in all 50 states, under the laws of those 50 states. I happen to be opposed to federal criminal statutes that reach common law crimes that are properly the province of the States.

    Prevail, by all means — convince the voters of your state (and all 50 states) that abortion should be illegal. Just don’t do it at the expense of the Constitution and the federalist system that we must restore and protect.

    -TS

  • redneck_hippie

    amendment. I am advocating overturn of Roe and fighting it out in the states. I realize the difference between federal and state law. I want the states to criminalize abortion, as many of them already did before Roe was cobbled together to imitate a reasonable facsimile of law. When I spoke of puppy abuse and murder it was to point out that the states are where these laws reside.

    I think we are in agreement in that the invocation of nonexistent penumbras do not justify the overstepping of federalism. N’est pas?

  • TheSophist

    I’m 100% okay with states criminalizing abortion, if that’s what the people of that state decide they want to do.

    -TS