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Rick Perry — conservative?

There has been much, and seemingly lately an increasing call for Governor Rick Perry to enter the fray to end Barack Obama’s presidency with just one term.

It is rather easy to see a case why Mr. Perry would make an excellent candidate. As a governor, Mr. Perry automatically has executive, political bona fides that are hard to match. Being a governor alone isn’t enough though; you have to be a good governor.

Mr. Perry seems to have that qualification answered well, too. During Mr. Perry’s tenure, the private industry in his state has been a job-creating machine. In fact, during this Great Recession, and non-recovery Recovery, his state has been the locality for a large chunk of the net jobs created. While much of the country is suffering and languishing, the state of the economy in Mr. Perry’s state is not too bad, thank you very much.

Further, Mr. Perry is not just a governor of the average state. Mr. Perry is the governor of Texas, whose economy ($1.22 trillion in 2008) if ranked as a country unto itself would nearly qualify Texas for the G8.

This leads to another positive spin for Governor Perry – fundraising. Mr. Perry is not in the field of candidates right now. He cannot use political funds donated for his Governor campaigns to run for President. Effectively, Rick Perry has ZERO dollars in any campaign accounts for President. He has no ground game built. He has not built a staff to put together a campaign – many candidates for such a staff are presently working for other active candidates, such as Tim Pawlenty. However, Texas again is a large state chock full of large corporations, large private investors, and other legitimate benefactors that would presumably be happy to fund a Perry for President campaign. While Rick Perry might enter the campaign relatively late, he would have access to one Great Equalizer™ that would partially make up for that in a primary campaign – fundraising. Rick Perry is probably the only other potential candidate for President that could match the fundraising of Mitt Romney, or for that matter Barack Obama.

Perry for President?

So, what about Rick Perry as a candidate for President? What kind of Presidency could we expect from Rick Perry? What are Rick Perry’s conservative bona fides? Because for me, in this primary contest, I am not interested in simply unseating Barack Obama. The candidate I am seeking to support in the primary would also be a strong leader of conservatives in government. I believe to truly unwind the vast depths of tyranny that has taken root in Washington, D.C. we will need a candidate devoted to Constitutional first principles as much as Barack Obama is devoted to centralizing the powers of government over people.

Well, an interesting thing happened in my household last week. As we had the TV on in the living room around supper time, Fox News had a blurb about how more rumors were swirling regarding a potential Rick Perry for President campaign. My wife immediately said something to the effect of, “Oh Rick Perry, he is a very bad man.” My wife is not exactly a political junkie by any stretch of the imagination. Frankly, I was surprised she even knew who Rick Perry was, so naturally I asked for clarification. My wife immediately relayed to me a story I had never heard about: how Rick Perry sought to mandate by executive order young women be immunized against human papillomavirus (HPV).

For those who might not know, HPV is a virus that can lead to several cancers, particularly in women. The point of contention is this – the virus is essentially a sexually transmitted disease. The chief vaccine – Gardasil – can prevent against such infections, but obviously is only effective before such an infection occurs. Gardasil is a vaccine, not a treatment. Thus, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration recommends Gardasil be administered to young women in adolescence, before the likelihood of any sexual activity.

The Opt-Out Clause myth

Naturally, the first response to defend Rick Perry is the “opt-out clause” encased within the executive order.

Without using the obvious comparison to Obamacare “waivers,” let me point out that the Governor’s sole vision still puts a mandate upon parents to apply for a waiver to not be immunized. My point remains, parents already had that right and privilege before the Governor’s order. Instead, the Governor changed the status quo to mean a child would be immunized unless you petition the government to stop the train and allow your child to disembark.

Further, this opt-out clause is not quite as simple as you might imagine. From Politifact:

The order included an opt-out “in order to protect the right of parents to be the final authority on their children’s health care.” Perry ordered the Department of State Health Services to allow parents dissenting for philosophical or religious reasons to request a conscientious objection affidavit form. That form, which has been available since 2003, enables parents to enroll their children in public school even if they lack state-required immunizations. It’s automatically granted as long as parents provide all required information.

According to the Department of State Health Service’s 2008-09 immunization report, which uses data from kindergarten and seventh-grade students at 1,300 independent school districts and 800 private schools, 0.28 percent of the students filed conscientious objection forms.

Parents must renew exemption affidavits every two years to maintain their validity, according to Allison Lowery, assistant press officer at the Texas Department of State Health Services.

We thought the opt-out form for public-school students proved Perry correct until we learned that not all private schools accept the affidavit. That means some private schools may not allow their students to exempt themselves from any state-required vaccinations. Some 15 percent of more than 1 million Texas girls in fifth through 12th grade in 2008 were enrolled in private schools, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

According to a 2006 Texas Attorney General’s opinion: “A private school that does not accept state tax funds is not required to accept for enrollment a child who has received an exemption from the immunizations required by the Texas Health and Safety Code.”

In its policy for Catholic schools, the Catholic Diocese of Austin states: “Immunizations are not in conflict with the Catholic faith. Conscientious objections or waivers, which may be permissible for enrollment in public schools, do not qualify as an exception to this policy.” Catholic schools in the diocese do accept medical exemptions, meaning if the immunization could somehow harm the child, it’s not required to enroll. [emphasis added]

To repeat, by the stroke of a pen Governor Perry changed the status quo, that parents must appeal to the government to not have their child immunized against a sexually transmitted disease. In practice, an opt-out provision is much more difficult than it sounds, particularly when scores of service providers (not just in Texas) require compliance with government mandates.

This is not liberty, this is tyranny.

The appearance of impropriety

While I was earning an advanced degree in business several years ago, you can imagine that “business ethics” was a hot topic in nearly every class within my curriculum. The news of the day was Enron and Sarbanes-Oxley. One definitional standard that stuck with me when seeking to determine ethical versus unethical behavior was the appearance of impropriety. In other words, maybe a particular action you are considering is wholly above board and completely honest. However, a valid test question could be: what will this action look like from the viewpoint of a disinterested third-party observer? What would it look like if the details were published in a newspaper report? If you can see that an action might appear unethical, then at the very least it is best to seek an even higher standard of scrutiny before proceeding. The mere appearance of a lack of ethics can make an honest and upright decision look untoward.

This standard brings us to the Merck Corporation, manufacturer of the only vaccine on the market at the time (Gardasil) that would satisfy Governor Perry’s executive order.

As part of its lobbying campaign, Merck has been funding Women in Government, a Washington, D.C.-based advocacy group made up of female state lawmakers. An executive from Merck’s vaccine division, Deborah Alfano, sat on Women in Government’s business council last year, and many of the bills across the country have been introduced by members of the group.

Merck declined to say how much money it has funneled into its lobbying campaign, or contributed to Women in Government. A spokeswoman for Women in Government, Tracy Morris, declined to say how much it had received from Merck. In Texas, one of Merck’s lobbyists is Gov. Perry’s former chief of staff, and Merck’s political action committee contributed $6,000 to the governor’s re-election campaign.
The Wall Street Journal, February 7, 2007 [emphasis added]

By authoring the mandate via executive order, rather than seeking a full public debate and allowing the light of the legislative process to shine upon such a government-mandated action – Governor Perry’s objectivity comes into question.

We all know that it takes cash to run successful campaigns. We know that businesses large and small donate money to candidates in that regard, just as do individuals. The mere nature of a political process will create associations between politicians and interested parties.  We do not need to assume the worst: that this was a quid pro quo, a “thanks for the donation” by Perry to Merck. However when presented with the sequence of events, it is not exactly a giant leap of faith to conclude that Governor Perry’s choice of action in this case was less than ethical. At the very minimum, it appears unethical due to the associations between the parties, casual and actual. I submit the Governor should have sought a higher scrutiny of his desired outcome, if only to maintain the appearance that his actions were not biased by his political donations and associations.

Liberty versus Tyranny

What gives me serious pause is Rick Perry’s clear, unforced choice that he apparently believes the government knows best regarding a child’s vaccination for a sexually transmitted disease. For me, it speaks to a troubling vision of government’s relationship with its people. While I know there is certainly evidence in Governor Perry’s background to counterpoint this example, it does not allay the concern. As I have said, the candidate I seek to support would restore the Constitutional vision of the relationship of the government to its people. Barack Obama, liberals, and statists in both major political parties have been shooting holes in the protections of people from their government within the Constitution for decades. It will take a spirited leader with enormous courage of convictions to do this in today’s Washington, D.C. With actions like these and others, I have serious reservations that Rick Perry would be such a person. In fact, I fear that in terms of leading a conservative movement, Rick Perry could be another George W. Bush. That is not a good thing in this case.

For my wife, she plainly states “I will never vote for that man.”  I suspect her viewpoint (and conclusion) as a mother and a conservative woman is not unique.

Further, I think the larger point is that for a potential candidate like Rick Perry, we cannot casually dismiss the fact that he has not been vetted by a national audience. While he may have run several successful campaigns for Governor in a very large state, that is still not equivalent to the microscope of national politics and national voters. If we effort to draft another candidate to the field, we do still run the risk (however significant) of drafting a candidate we may not “know everything” about. What might have been acceptable at one time to voters in Texas might play very differently on a national scene.

On my scorecard, I have serious reservations about the statist tendencies of several candidates:

  • Pawlenty – supported a state cap-trade energy initiative; decidedly not conservative. Apologized, for what that is worth.
  • Romney – his behavior regarding state control of medical care is well documented, and seriously troubling.
  • Perry – I have serious issues distinguishing Rick Perry from the above two candidates at face value. Perry’s obvious counterpoint is the relative success of the economy in Texas during his leadership. Pawlenty and Romney largely lose relative to Perry on this point. Make no mistake; this is a terrific trump card for Governor Perry to hold when the economy figures to be the chief issue of this Presidential campaign. However, does it matter if we restore economic prosperity in America, when a President cannot dependably lead from the front on conservative, Constitutional principles?

The Choice

Having other options, I will not caucus for a candidate who apparently sees no issue with government mandating my child be vaccinated against a sexually transmitted disease.  In a free republic, this should be a decision left to the parents of children, not the government.

Crossposted at BA Cyclone’s blog

UPDATE:

In Rick Perry’s first days on the campaign trail, he openly apologized for issuing the executive order mandating HPV vaccines:

On his first day on the campaign trail, Texas Gov. Rick Perry admitted he made a mistake on the sole issue some pro-life advocates bring up as a concern despite his sterling pro-life record.

Perry, in a conversation with a New Hampshire voter, walked back his decision to mandate the vaccine Gardasil to 11-year old girls. According to a Politico report, a voter confronted him on the issue — explaining his remorse for the decision and indicating he put an opt-out provision in place allowing parents to decide not to have their young girls receive the vaccine.

Perry explained that, in his zeal to protect children, he went too far.

“I signed an executive order that allowed for an opt-out, but the fact of the matter is I didn’t do my research well enough to understand that we needed to have a substantial conversation with our citizenry,” he said. “I hate cancer. Let me tell you, as a son who has a mother and father who are both cancer survivors.”

“I hate cancer. And this HPV, we were seeing young ladies die at the early age. What we should have done was a program that frankly should have allowed them to opt in, or some type of program like that, but here’s what I learned — when you get too far out in front of the parade they will let you know. And that’s exactly what our legislature did.

UPDATE: “I made a mistake on that,” Perry told Iowa Radio later in the day Monday, calling it “an error in not having a conversation with the people of the state of Texas.”

“I agreed with their decision. I don’t always get it right, but I darn sure listen,” he said of the legislature responding to his decision.

“One of the things I do pride myself on, I listen. When the electorate says, ‘Hey, that’s not what we want to do,’” Perry told Houston’s ABC affiliate on Monday. “We backed up, took a look at what we did.  I understand I work for the people, not the other way around. There was a better way to do that, I realize that now.” [empasis added]

In modern politics, you rarely get a far-reaching and complete ‘apology’ like this on any issue of importance.  When someone offers an apology, I believe we need to consider their sincerity and by discernment, consider the matter closed.  I believe we have that situation here.

Considering this mea-culpa, I consider my issues with Rick Perry’s candidacy completely closed.  Rick Perry is a true conservative, and he is also human.  Rick Perry is a governor and has served as governor for 10 years.  Everyone makes mistakes.  What is critical is that our leaders learn from such mistakes.  I cannot help but consider that a candidate with Rick Perry’s level of experience as a leader and executive in government public service would make an excellent President of the United States.

COMMENTS

  • averagevoterdotcom

    your perfect nominee? And VP?

    • gekster
      • Toby Calvert-Lee

        I think he would. And quite frankly, if you’re going to get hung up on something as small as that, you will never find a perfect candidate. Because all candidates, especially ones with such long experience, they will have done things that we disagree with. For example

        Sarah Palin: Appointed a planned parenthood executive to supreme court, increased taxes on businesses

        Michele Bachmann: Originally supported ethanol subsidies, Voted for cigarette tax increase, campaigned for Carter

        No candidate is perfect. But we have to ask “Is this candidate a Conservative on 9/10 of the issues.” and the answer, regarding Perry, Palin, and Bachmann is unequivically “Yes!”

        • BA Cyclone

          If a candidate can’t figure out that it isn’t their place as a Chief Executive to tell me that I must inject my child to prevent a STD, they don’t need to apply.

          I don’t consider that small potatoes.

          I am my child’s chief and best advocate. The government is not.

          I don’t appreciate Rick Perry telling parents they ‘have a right to opt-out’ when he was the one who would take away the option to opt-in.

          • Toby Calvert-Lee

            Small potatoes compared to his pro-business, pro-constitution, states rights, anti-trial lawyer, limited government record on everything else.

            Who do you support?

          • BA Cyclone

            I just happen to heartily disagree. I place a very high weight on Liberty and Constitutional first principles.

            If Rick Perry enters the race and does the hard work of campaigning in my state, you can bet I will question him directly on that topic.

            My personal favorites right now are Herman Cain and Michelle Bachmann.

          • Toby Calvert-Lee

            But I have some questions aboutCains support for TARP.

          • BA Cyclone

            You should ask him, or do some diligence on Herman Cain’s answer to that. There are a number of YouTube videos out there — he seems to get that question every time I have seen a Q&A of his, anywhere.

            Mr. Cain does not duck any question and has a respectable answer to the issue. He isn’t the only conservative that supported the idea in the abstract, but vehemently disagree with the application in practice.

            I do like Bachmann as I said, but I have not seen her doing the kind of retail politics here that Herman Cain has done and is doing. Frankly I am not certain of her commitment to win the nomination just yet, which might sound odd. It seems to me like she is going through some significant motions but remains almost non-committal for 2012, at least for the top of the ticket. Half-hearted?

          • Toby Calvert-Lee

            With your assessment of Bachmann, and I have actually checked out those videos, as Cain used to be my absolute favorite candidate. I understand many conservatives have the same position as him, but ultimately, I prefer a candidate who doesn’t like the idea or the practice, as both are massively big spending and big government. Two candidates who opposed it from the beginning were Bachmann and Perry, and I like Perry’s proven Conservative record. I am not sure about Palins view on the subject, but I could support her aswell

          • BA Cyclone

            I simply encourage you to seek out Mr. Cain if he has a meet & greet event anywhere near you. Raise your question or concern either during the forum or during the handshake sessions afterward. I don’t think you would be disappointed if you gave him a chance to explain. I suspect his whole answer will never fit well into a soundbyte, so it might take a personal and pointed question to get the answer you want in the detail required for you to feel comfortable with him.

          • cpaguy

            TARP is a good program. Like the Savings & Loans crisis, it looks like the government may even eke out a small profit (GM, Chrysler, & Citibank being the big losers).

            The Obama administration has misused it greatly, particulary in regards to the auto industry (for which it was never intended). Terrible what they did to GM bondholders.

            However, it has been very successful in its main goal of stabilizing the credit markets.

            TARP is a loan program not a stimulus program. It was originally meant (and for the most part fulfilled) to increase the capital (i.e. the amount of assets they have to offset liabilities) of financial institutions to decrease their perceived risk and allow them to engage in lending and investing.

            Hermain Cain supports the original goal of TARP which was to unfreeze the financial markets after the fall of Lehman Brothers. However, he turned against it after the abuse of the program (particulary in regards to GM) by the Obama administration to use it to pick “winners and losers.”

            The credit freeze was one of the few instances were government intervention was necessary and legitimate (there was no “market” solution, the US government needed to calm down the global markets).

          • Toby Calvert-Lee

            Def. of Keynesianism:

            “Keynesian economics argues that private sector decisions sometimes lead to inefficient macroeconomic outcomes and therefore advocates active policy responses by the public sector, including monetary policy actions by the central bank and fiscal policy actions by the government to stabilize output over the business cycle.” (Wikipedia)

            How does that not describe TARP?

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            .

          • aesthete

            acknowledge a role for central banks to play. Monetarists generally favor steady inflation of the money supply (2-4%), while Keynesians generally favor more activist policy. Alan Greenspan was all over the place, but is mostly known for expansionary monetary policy in order to prevent the housing and .com bubbles from popping simultaneously — IOW, activist policy. The only somewhat mainstream camp in economics that currently favors free banking is the Austrians, and they have several problems with showing how free banking would lead to their desired results mathematically (though in fairness, the Austrians have always been opposed to mathematical models or analogies, seeing them as over-simplifying and seeing human processes as impossible to model).

            Favoring central banking is only Keynesian in the sense that almost all economics derives from Keynes’ observations and simple model — neo-classicals are, in that sense, more faithful to Keynes’ model than Keynesians themselves. However, in the sense of central banking being the domain of economists who also believe in stimulus packages and such during recessions, or left wing economists… well, no.

          • Tavern Keeper

            Because of his CA abortion policy? I think the HPV vaccination is a little less severe than that test
            Here’s why Rick Perry, not Mitt Romney, is the front runner regardless of the conventional wisdom –
            http://www.redstate.com/thelefty/2011/08/17/why-its-not-romneys-race-to-lose-rebuttal-to-post/

          • gekster

            Someone might read it.

          • acat
          • Tavern Keeper

            And sure I would like people to read that diary entry. I think I made valid points. I don’t post often so I like it to be substantive and something I care about when I do.

            I’m not sure I understand what your comment about “a diary from June” meant. I wrote that tonight.

          • acat

            I have to agree with gekster, posting here does seem to be a bit .. flogging for comments.

            I have, in any case, read your diary and posted my own reply there.

            Mew

          • Tavern Keeper

            I thought I replied to a comment that appeared on the “recent comment board” that struck my interest. I didn’t look at the date of the source diary.

          • Toby Calvert-Lee

            is valid to note, but the reality is his views have been evolving for some time now. He began denouncing some of his previous immigration policies and attacking Amnesty back in 2007, when he wasn’t even rnning for office, so it was not a politically calculated flip-flop. He has tried to ban sanctuary cities, has attacked the Obama admin. for not being tough enough, and deployed national guard to the border. Yes, he is a gainst a wall across the whole border, and I happen to agree, seeing as it would be costly to mainatin and would have questionable effectiveness. And yes he was against Arizonaa’s Sb1070, but that was not because it was too tough, or because it deployed “racial discrimination” (it didn’t), but rather because it A. wasn’t tough enough, and B. did not set up a special task force to take care of immigration. He liked the idea, just not the overall execution. Perry’s record on immigration as of late actually hasn’t been too bad.

          • gekster

            I thought it a bit odd that he would comment on one diary,
            but point to his own.
            When I have posted diaries, I try to keep myself from saying, Hey, look over here.
            I do want to, but I let them stand on thier own merits without my help.
            But hey, he can do what he wants.

          • gekster

            I try to read everything.

          • Tavern Keeper

            What’s wrong with promoting it? I’m not a bandwagon guy. You can refer to several posts I made supporting what Boehner did in the Debit Ceiling Debacle I’d dare say 90% of RS disagreed with. Yes, I want my voice to be heard because I believe in what I say. I believe, as of right now, that Rick Perry is our best option for the President of the United States. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe not, but I will always try to support the position with a rational, intellectual argument. Sorry if that offended anyone – and I honestly didn’t realize the comment was to a source diary from June – I just clicked on something that caught my eye on “recent comments.”

            And one other thing – anything that follows my activity on RS will notice that my postings are, in terms of timeliness, quite spaced. Its not because I’m a random visitor. I read RS. RCP, Drudge, you name it, every day several times a day. I just don’t get the opportunity to put in the work a post deserves very often. Work and family takes precedence as I know it does with most of y’all.

            So on a lighter note, can anyone tweet me with the answer to where my handle comes from? Clue – happiest (and most expensive) place on Earth . . .

          • gekster

            you can do what you want.

          • rightwingmom52

            I realize it’s 10 years old, but there was a story about the speech linked on Mark Levin’s FB page http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/jun/19/picket-does-gop-want-perrys-dream-act-too/

            Here’s a link to the speech itself on Gov. Perry’s website: http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10688/

            Now, I am a Perry fan (not necessarily my top choice), but I’m really troubled by much of what he says here, specifically:

            “The Rio Grande does not separate two nations, it joins two peoples. Mexico and the United States have a shared history, and a common future.”

            “Legislation authored by border legislators Pat Haggerty and Eddie Lucio establishes an important study that will look at the feasibility of bi-national health insurance. This study recognizes that the Mexican and U.S. sides of the border compose one region, and we must address health care problems throughout that region. That

          • izoneguy

            Rick Perry is absolutely against amnesty for illegal immigrants. In November 2008, Perry said, “if you want to be an American citizen here’s the way you do it… you need to get in line just like everyone else. Go get in that immigration line like everyone who came before you… Now do we want to have sensible immigration policies that allow people who want to come into our state and work… absolutely. Secure that border, have a sensible immigration policy, and if you want to be a citizen of the United States, there’s the line… But to go give 13 million people a citizenship because you came here illegally is… is… Assanine!” In addition,

          • rightwingmom52

            I like Perry’s record on job creation, his family, pro life and many other issues, but that speech really bothers me. If he gets in the race, I hope he addresses immigration, the border, in-state tuition for illegals, etc. in a way that allays my concerns. Guess I’ll have to wait and see, but I will keep an open mind.

            The WA Times article has been updated to include a response from Perry that you might find interesting, although he doesn’t specifically address the Dream Act. Here’s a link:

            http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/jun/19/picket-does-gop-want-perrys-dream-act-too/

          • izoneguy

            This will be a duel edged sword for Perry.

            Gov. Perry and The Texas Dream Act
            http://blog.chron.com/texassparkle/2011/06/gov-perry-and-the-texas-dream-act/

          • acat

            I don’t have a problem with this, although I’d rather have seen Perry step up enforcement (as Arizona did) first… That is, first reduce the flow …

            Some of this seems like Perry was supporting Bush’s efforts to do a “Hispanic outreach” via “compassion” .. and while it didn’t work, it was a better effort than I’ve seen from the GOP before or since.

            I don’t view this as a reason to dislike Perry.

            Mew

          • izoneguy

            “Just another proof that immigration is not as cut-and-dried as we may like”
            Correct – Look at Obama’s stance

            ICE memos open another door to illegal alien amnesty-by-fiat

            http://michellemalkin.com/2011/06/22/document-drop-ice-memos-open-another-door-to-illegal-alien-amnesty-by-fiat/

          • acat

            Do you mean the one where Obama still has ICE rounding up illegals nearly to the extent Bush did? *

            Do you mean the one where he’s encouraging Congress to pass the pork-barrel amnesty nightmare scenario “Dream Act” and other amnesty-in-all-but-name programs?

            Guessing the latter, given your link over to MM.

            Mew

            * with the nagging question that I’m not going to take the time to research of whether the affected companies are politically targetted, just as the car dealer shutdowns were later proven to be…

          • izoneguy

            Obama “catches” the illegals for show – read the documents.

            On Friday, in another trademark Obama document dump, ICE issued a memo that pushes the perpetually-rejected DREAM Act for illegal alien students. As immigration lawyer Michelle Scopellite explained to me:

          • jollygiantsd

            From some backroom mentions and little known inner circle commentary, apparently the opt-out wording was implemented as part of a deal with state Democrats who said they would fight to override it, or at least take it to the courts and tie it up in legal battles until he either withdrew it or the next Governor came along to do something about it.
            So if we want to place the blame, I would be looking at pressure from the left.

            If we looked at every single “donator” that went towards an elected government official, I am sure we could create a link between any donation with a resulting bill, law or executive order…. such as linking NRA donations with loosening of firearm laws, link Comcast donations with net neutrality limits that allow them to alter/block legal data transfers, link Home Depot donations with gay marriage bills and so on down the road.

            The problem is that not all links are obvious and many times are coincidental, such as Perrys EO being altered to expedite action and satisfy powerful Democrats, which he may see as a small sacrifice.

          • BA Cyclone

            I don’t believe anything you’ve said there minimizes the points I have raised.

            The opt-out language is lame: it sounds fluffy and you can heap the old “well then I can at least get around this if I want” assumption upon it, but I think I have shown that is far easier said than done in practice. Further, you can find plenty of news articles where Perry himself is trumpeting this very feature as a Good Thing

          • rightwingmom52

            The whole issue of whether or not to educate children of illegal immigrants (who are themselves illegal) is a two-edged sword. Family members who are teachers in the same school system in TN tell me 2 different views. One is of the individual Hispanic students who are eager to learn and better themselves. They are respectful, smart, study hard and want to go to college. The other view is of the Hispanic students (sometimes including students from the other group) who, as a group, wear t-shirts bearing the Mexican flag, talk about how the U.S. stole their land, are disrespectful and feel entitled.

            Like most conservatives, I am against amnesty, but it’s not practical to think we can deport a few million illegal immigrants. There has to be some kind of solution in the middle, but I get really frustrated when foreign groups or governments start demanding what must be done for the good of everyone but Americans.

          • BA Cyclone

            I am not sure if Democrats particularly care for resolution of the matter. They can keep dangling this carrot in front of “immigrants” seemingly forever to get their empathy vote from those that are actual citizens already, while branding Republicans as “evil and out to deport their family.”

            Meanwhile Republicans generally fear the rhetoric and can’t bear the thought of being branded anti-immigrant for being a champion of reform; or being branded as pro-amnesty if they suggest anything short of deporting 100% of illegals.

            I am fully open to some “solution in the middle” because I don’t think it is humane to deport everyone here (that genuinely want to be a citizen), nor is the status quo humane — which encourages immigrants to live in the shadows AND propagates a stereotype that Latino = illegal. It is all morally bankrupt.

            We need a serious drive at reform — and that will take a conservative leader with some serious courage of conviction on that issue. The whole immigration policy needs to be thrown out and written anew. It has to focus upon:

            1) streamlining the process for applicants, either for citizenship or short-term work visas (strictly controlled)
            2) teaching intensive civics, promoting assimilation to our Founding and culture
            3) promoting smart growth; encourage immigration from a wide range of skilsets, not just numbers of people.
            4) strenghtening borders and enforcement; the natural act of living life here should make it difficult for non-documented persons to find work and make a living. You either get documented or find it’s not worth it to stay here outside the system.

            Continuing down the road without addressing the issue merely promotes the nonsensical balkanization of our society. The Democrats have no problem with this, they are all about keeping people in groups and pitting them against each other. I think our message is better, but we need to have the courage to tell it.

        • renny

          I like Perry for these reasons: 1) he has run a huge state during a terrible recession/depression and managed to avoid suffering the national ec. losses;
          2) TX has refused to bow to EPA attacks on its refining ind., and altho’ not exactly coming from the gov.’s office, the refineries targeted for shutdowns and changes in their emissions, have countersued the feds., and Perry must in some way be behind those federalist actions;
          3) TX has endured national disaster, and altho’ needing FEMA and a designation of national disaster, have not whined and moaned about their situation and carried on, which also must reflect on Perry’s leadership.
          4) Perry doesn’t have perfect name recognition, but he is no unknown and has a good reputation (barring the anomalous HPV situation),

          I am not enthusiastic about another TX Southern governor being president, but Perry has the policital, executive, and business experience to be a strong candidate. Better, he has first-hand knowledge of our border problems.

          And, even tho’ I also like Bachmann and Cain over other possibilities, Michelle lacks significant exec. credentials and Cain lacks time in politics.

          I do not like either Mitt or Gingrich as they are retreads and reruns from practically another time and place, and I think neither has the guts and gumption to face down the power libs. and obama will bring to the contest in 2012.

          • Toby Calvert-Lee

            And don’t forget about how he stood up to the TSA!

        • gwindybrown

          I think the Perry/Bachmann ticket would be a winner. Conservatives had better mind their manners in picking apart their candidates. They all have pros and cons. Perry and Bachmann have the ability to raise enough money to truly counter the Obama machine.

          Mrs. Cyclone’s reaction to Perry seems to be knee jerk. One issue does not a candidate make…or break. She has a right to her opinion and she can cast her vote for whomever she pleases. I just want to beat Obama.

          ABO [Anybody but Obama]

    • clefi

      According to you it’s merely an imperfection a nominee has no foundation of liberty as long as he sounds like he does most of the time. Such as Perry’s chairmanship of the Texas campaign for Al Gore in 1988, right??

      Does GOP want Perrys DREAM act too? http://bit.ly/lmyB3R

      Governor Perry and the DREAM Act http://fb.me/10RHytwZn

  • cpaguy

    :(

    Great job. Excellent perspective brought on by your wife.

    I guess I’ll have to settle for writing a diary debunking Perry’s impact on the Texas economy, his record of raising taxes, and explaining why the TTC is bad.

    However, the campaign is young…and I have work to do at the moment…

    • izoneguy

      If Rick Perry becomes the Republican nominee?

    • BA Cyclone

      With Perry so hot in the headlines right now, I thought I better strike while the story is hot.

      I already felt one-upped by the article I linked from HotAir! :)

      I look forward to reading what you have to offer, for sure.

      The campaign is still young and there are a lot of months between now and the caucuses. Who knows what will happen between now and then, but my hope for now is that either we end up with someone better than Perry/Romney, or that there is satisfactory conservative capitulation by one of these two that we won’t worry about having them in the Oval Office.

      The fight for Constitutional conservatism will go on, regardless of 2012.

  • cpaguy

    nt

    • gekster

      Can’t just throw out baseless claims.

      • cpaguy

        1. Raised Taxes (but called it a tax decrease….just like Obama does!)

        2. Tried to take away private land

        3. Infringed upon the right’s of Texans to make their own health decisions (very Obama-like…how that played out…executive order..not legislation…over the massive protests of the legislature and the People of Texas).

        4. Enriched his friends and political contributers at the expense of Texas citizens.

        5. Tried to give away Texas assets to foreign corporations (at the bequest of his buddies).

        6. Education for illegals.

        7. Poor immigration history (even the recent “sanctuary city” bill is all talk…won’t change immigration problems a bit).

        • gekster

          You are a dog chasing his tail, and you want everyone to jump in with you.

          • gekster

            You are making tribbles look bad.

          • runner12

            it pains me to read about such a breach of Conservative principles he exhibited with his support of mandating the HPV vaccine. I know many people are not aware of how controversial this relatively new vaccine is. Both for the young age of the children innoculated and the growing concern among parents regarding back-to-back vaccinations. Many parents are opting for alternative scheduling to vaccinations and the government mandating a vaccine and a timeline for it would rightly send parents in an uproar.

            I must commend you on your diary. Though it is critical of a candidate I am favorable towards, I want to know the truth about a candidate, warts and all, before I support him or her. I am not going to defend the indefensible with Perry on this one. My Conservative principles of limited government won’t let me.

            What I can do is wait and observe how Perry responds to questions on this issue. I accepted Pawlenty’s apology on cap and trade and I will give Perry his mia culpa moment. Perry has some positive things going for him and has done some great things in TX. I just hope he learns from his mistakes.

          • cpaguy

            Nothing has been refuted…some may wish it awy from their mind…but the truth is never refuted, just hid.

          • acat

            if the facts don’t support rejecting him.

            And at this point, you have so mis-sold your claim that Perry’s damaged that I’m more inclinded to like him than I was when you first showed up.

            Mew

          • Bill S

            when someone is so vociferous in their position – it has the exact opposite effect than what was intended. This is why Ronulans and a lot of Palin fans are so ineffective – they just make themselves so obnoxious that their positions are discounted by those who they’re trying to convince.

            And I am precisely in your boat, cat. I’m more convinced than ever that Perry is the right guy for us to support.

      • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

        that makes him the best damn candidate around, because this is just one blip on the radar screen, all the others have glaring weaknesses compared to this.

        • BA Cyclone

          I don’t think I can understate how SERIOUS I take it when some politician tells me I *must* shoot something into *my child* that I think is unnecessary or I have deemed risk outweighs reward.

          That is the upside-down view of statism versus liberty.

          Your mileage may vary.

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            It was a public health issue that went a little too far. Some do-gooder bureaucrat sold him on it, and he quickly backed off of it. You talk about how awful it is to have to opt out. But even if it had gone forward, there would be no real burden on you.

            Yes, you are sounding a bit drama queenish. I am not saying it was right, But I am saying that everyone gets a mulligan or two, or else we have NOBODY to choose from.

          • izoneguy

            The moderates and liberals have to start the Perry smear machine ASAP.
            Why? Because they fear him the most. The MSM and the establishment want to pawn off Romney and Huntsman to us.
            They tried to use the HPV shots and the TTC against Perry in the last election for governor. Look how that worked out for them. I think Americans will be more interested in jobs, the job killing mandates from the EPA & ObamaCare,
            the corruption of the gun walker program, the democrats addiction to spending, etc.

          • BA Cyclone

            I am anything but a moderate or a liberal.

            I am a conservative to the core, and I value liberty above most anything else. This kind of behavior from Perry concerns me.

            If it doesn’t concern you, that is your business.

          • aesthete

            but we are forced to grade on a curve when it comes to choosing our Presidential nominees. Even despite this egregious error, if this is the worst that Perry has done, then he sets the (admittedly low) curve.

          • BA Cyclone

            …my curve just happens to grade very strictly on areas that resemble state power over personal liberties, particularly when it comes to children.

          • izoneguy

            AND that is what we are talking about. If you claim to be conservative then you need to understand the stakes here. You can be concerned about Perry all you want. At the end of the day I think the choice will be Perry/Romney then
            Perry/Obama. I like Bachmann and Pawlenty but I am afraid that even if they
            won the Republican nomination they could not beat Obama. Of course WHOEVER the Republican nominee is I will vote for them over Obama.

          • BA Cyclone

            I would vote for a spare tire over Obama. I would even vote for Ron Paul over Obama. :D

            For me, I don’t want to get caught in the faithless banter of “electability” 18 months away from the election, 8 months away from the first caucus. It is defeatist at best.

            I want the process to work itself through, and part of that is asking the tough questions and making decisions with our eyes wide open.

          • izoneguy

            Fair enough

          • acat

            Came up in another thread that Gingrich and Perry are relatively close… as in Perry’s people in Iowa used to be Gingrich’s people .. and Gingrich wrote a forward in Perry’s book.

            This concerns me because Perry is a relative unknown to me, but Gingrich is all too known – Newt’s a past master at using conservative rhetoric to win elections but not himself being governed by them.

            Ironically, I could see a Perry/Gingrich ticket as the ultimate fusion… Perry appealing to the Tea Partiers and Social Conservatives to win the nomination, then bringing in Gingrich to calm the gutless D.C. wing of the party going into the general…

            I don’t have a problem with the *strategy*, mind. I don’t trust Gingrich, and would like to know if Perry is cut from similar cloth….

            Mew

          • BA Cyclone

            …that a lot of Perry’s “campaign” people are (were?) working on Gingrich’s campaign. Some of them are working for Pawlenty as well.

            There are some things I definitely like about Gingrich. But like you I think there is a lot not to trust about him — he is a bit smarmy to go along with all his great intelligence. Just like the deal with the Ryan budget, whether it was poor wording or not, he could undercut the momentum of the Tea Party conservative movement in a weekend.

            On the other side, Erick also points out that the “Bushies” HATE HATE HATE Rick Perry, which in some ways makes me like Perry. Don’t get me wrong there were things to like about GWB too, but he also owns a big share of why Barack Obama is President today, in my opinion. At least GWB nominated Alito and Roberts…

            Still if Gingrich and Perry are kindred spirits… meh.

            Like I say, let the whole process work and let’s not be in too much of a hurry. Have the airing of grievances, and hopefully coalesce behind one candidate before we give the field to someone like Romney or that Utah person that shall not be named.

          • acat

            And remember that Bush nominated Harriet Miers too….

            I’m letting the process play out, but for me it’s more a process of elimination. Dislike Romney, dislike Roemer, don’t think Giuliani’s all that, don’t trust Gingrich, Santorum creeps me out…

            Mew

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            That man was personally hated by the worst collection of not-yet-hanged, cross-political scum and villainy in Western civilization. It takes real skill to be loathed simultaneously by Commies, Nazis, Tranzis, anti-human deep ecologists, blackshirt anarchists, the Ku Klux Klan, International ANSWER, Stormfront, Code Pink, the radical antiwar movement, and the professional activist class; I will consider my life a success if I manage to get a third of those groups despising my name before I die. :)

            Moe Lane

            PS: I agree: Miers was a mistake.

          • izoneguy

            N/T

          • acat

            Nixon had a much more mundane enemies list. (grin)

            We’ll have to win in 2012, and 2016 .. and take back higher education .. if only to be able to make sure the history books get it right. (victors write ‘em, eh?)

            Mew

          • aesthete

            and pretty good proof that having the right list of enemies isn’t what’s required to be a good leader (as some here have suggested).

          • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

            I know this is an old thread, (what can I say? I am a schoolteacher and it is summer, I am bored)

            I don’t hate G W Bush, but man I hate the results of his presidency.

            I give him some credit that he recognized the imminent failure of the Social Security/Medicare system and attempted to reform it.

            But that was after he expanded it.

            The guy was simply NOT a very good president, and not very conservative, which is directly why we got saddled with Democrats.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            if thats what you mean. Principled leader are two words that dont describe him, either together or individually. He is Romney but was in a redstate instead of a deeply blue state, I see almost no difference in the two when it comes to core principles. But, sadly, this is something I guess I can ultimately overlook as long as we knock off Obama.

          • gekster

            You crack me up. :)

          • izoneguy

            Remember the 92 election? Bush was lackluster running up against Clinton. When Ross Perot came into the race I got jazzed up and I voted for him and we got 8 years of Clinton. 3rd party candidates will kill a Republican candidate and not voting for the Republican because he/she is not conservative enough will get Obama back in office.

          • Goldwater_Conservative

            I plan on voting for either of them, Perry or Romeny, in fact I wont in the primary. But I am saying if one of those two guys is going to be the inevitable nominee then I will get behind them and hope.

          • acat
          • BA Cyclone

            Well see, that is just it in my book.

            So what if some bureaucrat sold Perry on this, that is my chief point.

            Liberty is liberty. Give this man the keys to the whole country, and then what is Perry going to choose to do with my liberty “for my own good”? This is the kind of statist slippery slope that leads to state control of medical care, industry, etc.

            Rick Perry supplanted his judgement for the judgement of parents on this, and I am not going to take it lightly until Perry answers for it. It is a definitional case of a lack of conservative judgement and vision.

            Sure, maybe Rick Perry has a list of mitigating political choices that could make up for this, or balance it out. My point remains valid on this example, it was not a conservative choice and it is cause for concern with Perry.

            Your last line might be the point that we actually agree upon. My point is that I don’t think Rick Perry is some white knight on a horse that is going to save this Party and drive us to a conservative re-awakening. He has his negatives, just like anyone else. We need to be careful about heaping a pile of hopes onto one person, and pretend he has already been vetted because he’s been in elective office for decades.

            We have several conservative choices already in the race. If Rick Perry gets in, fine — but it will not be the end of the world if he does not.

          • gpclaw

            First off, after reading over the comments, it can’t be emphasized enough that you clearly stated that your objection to Perry is limited to the primary only, and does not apply to the general election.

            I agree with the position you and your and your wife have taken. Principles are not limited because of scale. Just because mandating a vaccine may not be as big of a policy decision, as mandating health care, the core principle driving the two are the same.

            The outrage over ObamaCare’s individual mandate, is because it places the government in the middle of the individuals health care decisions. Most people currently have health insurance, and have always had insurance, so technically speaking, the individual mandate doesn’t change anything for them. That said, the outrage is justified, because mandating what should be a personal decision is a step to far. This is the same principle at issue with Perry’s mandate.

            Regardless of the later actions of the legislature, the fact remains, Perry thinks it’s ok to place the government in the center of the relationship between a parent, a child, and their doctor.

            This isn’t to say that everyone has to agree with you on the issue, but it does need to be factored into the decision to support or oppose Perry in the primary – assuming he gets in the race.

          • californiagold

            Like others, I too question Perry’s big government decision to mandate vaccinations for HPV. That’s something a liberal democrat might support, but should not be something a limited government conservative should support. Perry fans might say it was just one issue, but the issue shows the mindset of the person at th core level.

          • BA Cyclone

            You nailed it, I won’t add anything more.

            I’d vote for a beagle over Obama, that’s not what this is about and you are perfectly on point there…just like all of what you said! Thanks again!

  • Martin Knight

    The obsession with running down Perry with the same old talking points despite the utter failure to convince anyone not already in his basement is a sign …

    • gekster

      But I like playing with tribbles.
      They are round, furry, cause no harm, but are extremely annoying.

      • acat

        because at this point cpaguy is just posting in circles like the proverbial cranial-deprived avian.

        Mew

    • acat

      http://hotair.com/archives/2011/06/20/everythings-bigger-and-now-also-brighter-in-texas/

      Rick Perry wants consumers, at least in Texas, to have a choice of what kind of light bulbs they want to use to read by.

      Note – since the bulbs have to be both manufactured and consumed in Texas, this is a very clear dodge of the so-very-abused Commerce Clause… as well as more jobs starting up in the Lone Star State.

      Mew

      • BA Cyclone

        It very well might be small potatoes, but this is also one issue that really chaps my hide. It is a perfect case study in the statist view of government over people — we cannot even be trusted to pick the correct lightbulbs for our house.

        Good for Perry and the state legislature. Texas is truly fortunate to have a group that boldly protects federalism. I’ve never lived there but I am sure I would enjoy making a home somewhere in Texas, just for this fact alone.

        We have a long way to go here to rid our state legislature of the squishes and statists. It will be done.

      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

        “This is clearly a loophole. We need national regulation.”

        • Goldwater_Conservative

          out-loopholing the loophole and this communist type of legislation deserves to be out loopholed. Cudos to Texas and Perry on it, hope they can hold up in court.

    • izoneguy

  • tea4me

    …from the very beginning. Since she first stood up to the stooges at MSNBC. And shortly thereafter was interviewed by Mark Levin. I really think she can win the Presidency. I love her spirit. She’s the one legitimate candidate who will directly take it to Obama and the leftists.

    Excluding Sarah Palin of course….

  • tea4me

  • BA Cyclone

    The drive for my diary was to give light to something I’d not heard much of anything about previously, that certainly gave me serious pause for consideration.

    My intent was to at least partially quell the “grass is greener” movement that we cannot seem to shake in the GOP nomination process. There are a couple nutjobs in our slate, but overall I like who we have running. If the Republicans go with what we already have running, I think it will be fine.

    Personally, I find a lot to like about Perry. However, this is one thing (among a few others) he will have to answer for (or explain fully) to earn my support — and even then I think Perry ranks below some other candidates due to some of these tendencies. But, if Perry runs I will give him a fair chance just like all the rest.

    • BA Cyclone

      This is a reply to runner12 above.

  • Scope

    http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2738137/posts

    Nothing there at all that I could disagree with.

    • acat

      Appreciate it.

      Mew

      • izoneguy

        And stumble and fall flat on his face then we probably would not even be talking about Rick Perry running. After all – Rick Perry’s advisors were working for Newt.

      • acat

        There’s nothing there I could disagree with either.

        About the only thing I question is why Gingrich spends as much space on the Contract with America as he does .. While the statistics Newt lays out are true .. he ignores that the Y2K “dot-bomb” bubble (and the real estate bubble) were both inflating, that neither were sustainable.

        Further, by 2006 – when the GOP lost the house to Pelosi – several of the same GOP leaders Gingrich had brought with him were the problem, not the solution.

        I’m concerned about how close to Gingrich Rick Perry may be standing…

        Mew

        • izoneguy

          I don’t think you will see Gingrich within 100 miles of Perry. He will put a good word in for him but that will be it.

          • acat

            I’m concerned that Perry may share Gingrich’s, say, “flexible” conservatism.

            Newt is, at best, a fair-weather conservative .. he’s way too quick to cut deals, and he’s so convinced of his own smarts that he often cuts the wrong deals. Newt is why Bubba Clinton was able to win a second term…

            Mew

          • izoneguy

            Newt outsmarted himself by 1996.
            You can be very intelligent & dumb at the same time.

  • drfredc

    The issue is beating Obama, not beating down the GOP! It’s like your focused upon beating the quarterback squad of your team rather than beating down the opposition’s Blue quarterback and it’s team full of blue clowns..

    Like many, I don’t have the time to read thru any so called conservative’s tirad about the flaws some GOP leader has. So please, take your waste of time commentary elsewhere…

    The reality is every GOP Candidate for President (conservative or otherwise) is going to have flaws of one sort or another. The issue isn’t whether any particular candidate is the perfect conservative, but can they be elected to the White House in 2012! Perry has the passion and background to do so, as may several others.

    As far as I read, your misplaced tirad against Perry seem to center around some minutia in governance. If that’s your concern, then you should focus your efforts on the makeup of Congress in 2012 and beyond — and stop tearing down possible party/national leadership. The reality is the makeup of Congress is going to largely define the boundaries of what the next President can or can’t to, including how the executive can deal with the other branches of government. Perry seems as well suited as anyone in this regard.

    As noted above, your tirad is horribly misplaced. You seem to have skipped by the part of winning the White House by taking on Obama and the Obamacrats…

    • izoneguy

      Nail meet hammer…..

      Remember we have Senate races in 2012 to win.
      And we must keep the House momentum going.

    • gekster

      It is way before the primary season, and it will be kind of late to start our
      bickering about candidates then.
      Right now we can get it all out in the open, our likes and dislikes,
      and why we like one and don’t like the other,
      (though some to want to air out only the dislikes)
      Now is the time to argue about the potential and announced candidates.
      We have plenty of time to examine them really good.
      Every day it seams something new comes out, good as well as bad.
      Come the primary season, we should know all about who is running, but only because we participate in this forum.
      We post, read, learn, state our opinions, and get a better feel for who wants to lead us and the conservative movement.
      As they say, get behind it, get on top of it, get in front of it, or get out of the way.

      • acat

        Got your noseplugs ready? If we don’t “hash it out” before Iowa – before South Carolina at the latest, we’re going to be voting for a squishy RINO. Will it be Mitt? Huntsman? Who knows… but it won’t be Bachman, Cain, Palin, Pawlenty, or Perry…

        (source) http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/vplugs-yet-another-threat-to-hillary-s-coronation-t1726.html

        Note – The People’s Cube is bitter satire – think of it as The Onion, only with Marxists.

        Mew

    • gpclaw

      It’s about nominating the candidate who best represents Conservative principles.

      This isn’t directed at Perry, but winning with a candidate who represents Obama-lite, just because he/she is considered the most “electable”, isn’t really winning.

      • izoneguy

        Obama needs to be beatdown everyday 24/7/365….

        This is where McShame screwed up.

        • gpclaw

          when I cast my vote in the primary. The primaries are the only opportunity we have to be choosy, and I intend to take full advantage of it.

          The GOP nominee isn’t running against Obama. He or she will be running against the ideology that Obama represents. To do otherwise would suggest that it’s not Obama’s ideology that’s flawed, just the man who is implementing those ideas.

          Simply beating Obama isn’t good enough. His principles need to be defeated. The only way to do that, is to nominate the person who can best make the case for principles of limited government, personal responsibility and values, that are embodied by Conservatism.

          • izoneguy

            Amen, take that to the bank. If they are any left in 2012……

          • gpclaw

            as long as the bank owners get down on one knee and kiss Obama’s ring.

            Statists need cronies like rock stars need groupies.

  • izoneguy

    BILL WOULD OVERTURN HIS MANDATE

    http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/05/09/9hpv.html

    Feb. 2: Gov. Rick Perry issues executive order requiring a state agency to draft rules requiring girls to get vaccinated against HPV before entering sixth grade, starting in fall 2008.
    February: About 60 lawmakers call on the governor to rescind the order.
    March 12: Sen. Jane Nelson, R-Lewisville, after consulting with Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, declares the order ‘a friendly suggestion’ without the weight of law.
    March 14: House passes House Bill 1098, which would overturn Perry’s order.
    April 23: Senate passes bill to overturn the order. It tweaks the bill to say that the ban on mandating the vaccine would expire in 2011.
    April 26: Legislature sends the bill to Perry. There are enough votes in each chamber to overturn a veto, which requires the support of two-thirds of each.
    May 8: Perry declines to sign or veto the bill. Bill becomes law at midnight. Shots are not required.

    ——————————————————————————————
    It really is too bad that not enough Americans showed this passion when the Democrats rammed down a HealthCare take over bill that no one read.

    Or that Romney’s former state is struggling with the costs of the HealthCare bill he signed into law.

    The MSM will play up Perry’s mandate while other states keep losing business and population to Texas. Go figure?

    Oh, and don’t forget the TTC!!!!

    So who would your wife vote for?

  • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

    First of all, thank you for the information you’ve provided here. I must admit that the Gardisil mandate really set me against Rick Perry back when it happened, and you are correct in your description of it as tyranny.

    Couple of comments:

    Isn’t it ironic that Catholic schools would provide even less recourse for parents than would the public schools! Oy.

    Another concern is that the sole manufacturer of Gardisil, Merck, has been the target of a pro-life boycott for many years. The main reason is that Merck is the largest manufacturer of vaccines made using cell lines derived from deliberately aborted babies. Many vaccines by many manufacturers fall into this category — but for most vaccines, ethical alternatives (i.e., NOT derived from aborted babies) are available.

    The Campaign for Ethical Vaccines has copious information on vaccines and you can find which ones are abortion-derived and which ones aren’t. I have used their helpful guide whenever my own children have been due for immunizations.

    Gardisil itself is not derived from aborted fetuses, as far as I know, BUT it is manufactured solely by Merck, which has proven itself to be a truly nasty company from a pro-lifer’s point of view. Merck has repeatedly been downright ugly to the Campaign for Ethical Vaccines. Merck was also instrumental in getting RU-486, the abortion drug, to market, and gives major support to groups such as Planned Parenthood that perform and promote abortions.

    Some parents object to Gardisil because not only does vaccination presuppose that their daughters will be fornicators, but the vaccine itself has very serious potential side effects — and may not even be that effective. In other words, a lousy trade-off.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    please explain to me what is so unholy about the TTC? I still have not heard a coherent argument against it.

  • izoneguy

    Mountain out of molehill

  • rightwingmom52
  • BA Cyclone

    You really got the point I was trying to make here.

    I was not aware of the history of Merck in particular, as I have not dug that deeply on it or them.

    I think your last line in particular is what really chaps the hide of my wife, and to a large extent mine as well. My angle here on the larger point of tyranny and government in civil society is to apply this in the abstract to “what could we expect from President Rick Perry?”

    I am not one to try to shoot holes in every candidate, or any candidate, but I do want them to answer the tough questions now rather than after they are nominated — or elected. Hindsight is 20/10; to have foresight requires legitimate scrutiny.

    Frankly I am troubled that some voters are so quick to dismiss legitimate concerns for Liberty, which I beileve this is, as handwringing by a tinfoil hat society or some such nonsense. I posted this diary to explain to the best of my understanding why I think this is not picking flea excrement out of pepper. While I don’t speak for any large swath of people, I do consider myself relatively informed and since I’d not heard about the particulars until the last few days, I am guessing many other people have not either.

    I am strictly opposed to tyranny whether it comes from Republicans, Democrats, or even mostly-conservative politicians of any stripe.

  • izoneguy

    Perry’s Team Begins Scoping Out New Hampshire

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/23/perrys_team_begins_scoping_out_new_hampshire_110329.html

  • izoneguy

    Go spend your time fighting for the protection of the unborn.
    Instead of creating drama about a non-event.

  • BA Cyclone

    Sure, this is not some huge monstrosity of a bill that creates insurance mandates, bureacracies, and all that happy liberal schiza.

    However, my issue with the EO is that it speaks to a huge red flag about Constitutional first principles. As I said elsewhere, I prefer my favorite candidate to be 10/10 on individual liberty.

    I don’t think government should give one red cent to Planned Parenthood, etc. We can quibble about subsidies for this or that.

    For me, those things are small potatoes (details, if you will) compared to having an obvious problem of vision when it comes to just where “rights” and liberty belong in civil society.

    So out of the 3 mentioned, I’d rank them Pawlenty first, then pick-em between Romney and Perry. Maybe I’d prefer Perry over Romney — but to me they both come off as slippery and a little to statist for my pleasure.

    I would support just about all the rest of the mainstream conservative candidates, including Palin ahead of the 3 I mentioned — except for Ron Paul. But I repeat myself… :)

  • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

    …if you’re the parent of a twelve-year-old girl. If that’s not obvious, I don’t know how to explain it to you.

    As for the ethical vaccines issue, the reason I explained it in my comment is that almost nobody is aware of it, even amongst pro-lifers. As a former scientist, a mother, and a citizen, I get really, really miffed when important information is withheld from us. It’s like the Pill being an early-abortifacient. There are millions of pro-life women on the Pill who have no idea that the Pill sometimes works as an abortifacient. This information is withheld from them. I have known women who found out, after years on the Pill, how it works — and they were devastated, heartbroken that they may have unintentionally aborted a child. Maybe that would be a molehill to you, but to the women affected, I guaran-damn-tee you, it’s a mountain.

  • izoneguy

    It was for the poster if this diary,
    The skelton hunters keep bringing up issues that are dead.
    Maybe we should call them graverobbers.

  • Goldwater_Conservative

    and I cant see where they mentioned it, in fact everything but the TTC, which is why I raised it here when you mentioned it.

  • BA Cyclone

    I had to google that one to recall what that even stands for, to be honest.

    Frankly, it isn’t a concern of mine. I’ve also heard much dismay, similarly on the North American trade corridor, whatever that was called.

    I am for free trade and free markets. I am also for a strong Constitution and strong protections of individual liberty from government interventions. I want my candidate to be 10/10 on that.

  • izoneguy

    You as a parent must be informed and involved with your child’s healthcare.
    If you feel that following up with some paperwork puts undo pressure
    on you and it becomes a mountain then I suggest you move out of America if Obama gets re-elected. Talk about mandates, ObamaCare will be the mountain of all mandates – and ones that you cannot opt out of.

    Looking at the political landscape and being realistic, I feel Rick Perry has the best chance of beating Obama. Many conservatives are holding a grudge against Perry for something that did not come to pass. It’s a free country and you can rail against Perry all you want. I am fighting Obama and will help Rick. If Rick becomes the nominee will you vote against him?

    I would really feel empathy towards you IF this executive order was still in place. It is not.

    Human papillomavirus vaccine mandate

    Feb. 2: Gov. Rick Perry issues executive order requiring a state agency to draft rules requiring girls to get vaccinated against HPV before entering sixth grade, starting in fall 2008.
    February: About 60 lawmakers call on the governor to rescind the order.
    March 12: Sen. Jane Nelson, R-Lewisville, after consulting with Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, declares the order ‘a friendly suggestion’ without the weight of law.
    March 14: House passes House Bill 1098, which would overturn Perry’s order.
    April 23: Senate passes bill to overturn the order. It tweaks the bill to say that the ban on mandating the vaccine would expire in 2011.
    April 26: Legislature sends the bill to Perry. There are enough votes in each chamber to overturn a veto, which requires the support of two-thirds of each.
    May 8: Perry declines to sign or veto the bill. Bill becomes law at midnight. Shots are not required.

  • izoneguy

    sar

  • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

    Perry’s not my favorite, obviously, but sure, if he gets the nom, I’ll vote for him.

    But, izoneguy, I keep feeling like you’re missing the main point BACyclone was making, which is that Perry acted in a way that is essentially tyrannical. We want government smaller, less intrusive. Can you admit that this was an incredibly heavy-handed measure?

    Yes, obviously ObamaCare is much, much worse — but that doesn’t diminish the fact that Perry’s executive order was, in and of itself, an abuse of power. That has to make you question Perry’s conservative instincts.

  • rightwingmom52

    of heartlander’s comments or diaries, you would know that she is an ardent advocate of the unborn who puts her money where her mouth is, so to speak. Being familiar with her diaries and comments, and keeping that in mind, I see no “railing” against Perry, rather a disagreement with him on one issue (and for the record, I agree with heartlander). There isn’t a single candidate out there with whom I don’t have at least one or two reservations, Perry included. I’ve read most of the logical and cited comments you’ve made in his defense, but this one struck me as being rather defensive and undeservedly snarky.

    No doubt that heartlander can certainly take up for herself, and I’m certain I wouldn’t lose any money by betting that she’ll vote Perry if he’s the nominee, but you do yourself or Perry no favors with the kind of response you made. Not everyone who disagrees with Perry on an issue or two is like cpaguy.

  • BA Cyclone

    This is all about a Chief Executive who easily oversteps the bounds of Constitutional protections of individual liberty.

    That the Legislature quickly overrode it by Statute is fantastic for Texas citizens, but completely beside the point. If anything, it buffers my original point. Rick Perry was completely out of line to author the EO in the first place.

    That Perry didn’t veto the override statue it is certainly commendable, but it does not erase the original sin of vision on individual liberty.

    If Rick Perry thinks this is the proper role of a Chief Executive in government, I don’t want to learn from 2013-2017 what his next “exceptions” would be to my Constitutional protections of life, liberty, and property.

  • http://theheartlander.wordpress.com/ heartlander

    I didn’t know all the details. Maybe I won’t have to hold my nose quite so tightly when I vote for him…
    I still hate the obvious Merck cronyism, though.

  • cpaguy

    Perry did not have the option to veto. It is not an indication that he did the “right” thing. He went on TV, cried and tried to use cancer victims as stage prop puppets….a terrible showing. He still went on defending his action against the people of Texas.

    Given the the legislature overturned is executive order 178-3, they easily had the votes to overturn a veto and indicated they would do so.

    The governor of Texas has very little power, its not like a Texas Governor can just override the legislature willy nilly.

  • gekster

    I hate Perry….I hate Perry….I hate Perry…. :)
    I hate Perry….I hate Perry….I hate Perry…. :)
    I hate Perry….I hate Perry….I hate Perry…. :)
    I hate Perry….I hate Perry….I hate Perry…. :)

    Is that good enough, or do you need more.
    (I think you should take Bill S’ advice, but I know you wont).