Comments on: The Critical Missing Piece in the Automaker Bailout, And A Message For Senator Corker http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:51:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Flagstaff http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2368 Flagstaff Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:15:23 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2368 that's the right thing to do? I don't know about the others, but Alan Mulally seems to be part of the solution at Ford, not part of the problem. That's why he was hired two years ago. that’s the right thing to do?

I don’t know about the others, but Alan Mulally seems to be part of the solution at Ford, not part of the problem. That’s why he was hired two years ago.

]]> By: Flagstaff http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2367 Flagstaff Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:58:02 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2367 Health benefits and retirement plans are not the same between the average GM, et al, worker and the furriners, either. Nor are they the same among all US auto workers. Ford and (I imagine) GM and Chrysler installed less lucrative medical and pension benefits for newly hired workers years, even decades, ago. Ford no longer pays health benefits (at least not beyond an HSA) to non-union retirees over age 65. Often missed, much of the white collar pension benefits are accrued from voluntary pension contributions made by the worker while active, not payed by the company. That source of pension benefits is now sorely underfunded, through no fault of the employees. I agree that the difference in age of the two parts of the industry is a significant aspect of the problem, combined with the different treatment by their respective home governments. Health benefits and retirement plans are not the same between the average GM, et al, worker and the furriners, either. Nor are they the same among all US auto workers. Ford and (I imagine) GM and Chrysler installed less lucrative medical and pension benefits for newly hired workers years, even decades, ago. Ford no longer pays health benefits (at least not beyond an HSA) to non-union retirees over age 65.

Often missed, much of the white collar pension benefits are accrued from voluntary pension contributions made by the worker while active, not payed by the company. That source of pension benefits is now sorely underfunded, through no fault of the employees.

I agree that the difference in age of the two parts of the industry is a significant aspect of the problem, combined with the different treatment by their respective home governments.

]]> By: Mike gamecock DeVine http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2348 Mike gamecock DeVine Tue, 09 Dec 2008 04:21:08 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2348 by nearly a third. Bush's purpose was not to kick the can down the road. If we know one thing about President Bush, it is that he is not afraid of taking heat for cans immediately obstructing the road he presently travels. more later by nearly a third. Bush’s purpose was not to kick the can down the road. If we know one thing about President Bush, it is that he is not afraid of taking heat for cans immediately obstructing the road he presently travels.

more later

]]> By: Achance http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2347 Achance Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:44:46 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2347 Management and the UAW are conconspirators in this. Management doesn't want to do Chp. 11 or Chp. 7, they want the good old days of pattern bargaining. Management and the UAW are conconspirators in this. Management doesn’t want to do Chp. 11 or Chp. 7, they want the good old days of pattern bargaining.

]]> By: mbecker908 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2346 mbecker908 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 01:38:45 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2346 member of congress or any of the Big 3 execs. member of congress or any of the Big 3 execs.

]]> By: rcov092 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2345 rcov092 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:55:48 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2345 There is a rumor floating that the "Car Czar" could be none other than UAW head Ron Gettlefinger. Can you believe the audacity (of Hope)? There is a rumor floating that the “Car Czar” could be none other than UAW head Ron Gettlefinger. Can you believe the audacity (of Hope)?

]]> By: JLenardDetroit http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2344 JLenardDetroit Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:18:53 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2344 rather than untying some of the knots they have the industry twisted up in. Like this Car Czar BS, unless it is an anti-Govt meddling Republican appointed that the Dem's couldn't immediately replace in 2 months... NO THANKS!!! rather than untying some of the knots they have the industry twisted up in. Like this Car Czar BS, unless it is an anti-Govt meddling Republican appointed that the Dem’s couldn’t immediately replace in 2 months… NO THANKS!!!

]]> By: Diogenes314 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2343 Diogenes314 Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:12:48 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2343 That was funny. Next you'll be saying the Dems in Congress might tell the unions to do something instead of vice versa. BTW, it's the little three, and the Big One. And its Congressional waterboys. That was funny. Next you’ll be saying the Dems in Congress might tell the unions to do something instead of vice versa.

BTW, it’s the little three, and the Big One. And its Congressional waterboys.

]]> By: JLenardDetroit http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2342 JLenardDetroit Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:37:16 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2342 but what he means is, they will scrutinize the DEFENSE BUDGET for any and all cuts they can find, not the General Budget. but what he means is, they will scrutinize the DEFENSE BUDGET for any and all cuts they can find, not the General Budget.

]]> By: bk http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2341 bk Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:33:59 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2341 So much for Obama's promises to reinstitute PAY-GO, bring fiscal discipline back to Washington, carefully review every dollar spent page by page and line by line, etc. So much for Obama’s promises to reinstitute PAY-GO, bring fiscal discipline back to Washington, carefully review every dollar spent page by page and line by line, etc.

]]> By: bs http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2340 bs Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:30:11 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2340 At the rate the Big 3 are burning through cash, how long do you think it'll take them to repay that "loan?" I'll be six feet under and worm food by the time any of those companies even entertains the notion that maybe, they MIGHT, want to pay that money back. And what, pray tell, is going to change their revenue/profit/cash flow scenario so that they could even do it if they wanted to? If you <u>honestly</u> are naive enough to believe that any of the senior executives in GM/Ford/Chrysler plan on paying that money back, well, you fall into the category of your username. At the rate the Big 3 are burning through cash, how long do you think it’ll take them to repay that “loan?” I’ll be six feet under and worm food by the time any of those companies even entertains the notion that maybe, they MIGHT, want to pay that money back. And what, pray tell, is going to change their revenue/profit/cash flow scenario so that they could even do it if they wanted to?

If you honestly are naive enough to believe that any of the senior executives in GM/Ford/Chrysler plan on paying that money back, well, you fall into the category of your username.

]]> By: Jack_Savage http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2339 Jack_Savage Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:34:06 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2339 Exactly the scenario, and exactly in that order. Exactly the scenario, and exactly in that order.

]]> By: Jack_Savage http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2338 Jack_Savage Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:32:30 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2338 "But because this is an emergency situation, there’s been no time to fully debate the issue, and to deal with the fact that no one has bothered to try to convince the American people that their tax dollars should be used to reward a couple of badly-failed businesses." Deja vu all over again, and I am so damn sick and tired of this recurring nightmare. If the poor, downtrodden union workers would make it their business to be productive and help their companies make a profit instead of making it their business to elect Democrats, maybe things would be different at EVERY SINGLE UNIONIZED BUSINESS ON EARTH. But they won't, so it won't. It will be a cold day in hell before my wife or I, my children, or my grandchildren buy a car made by one of the Big Three Bailout Whores / UAW. “But because this is an emergency situation, there’s been no time to fully debate the issue, and to deal with the fact that no one has bothered to try to convince the American people that their tax dollars should be used to reward a couple of badly-failed businesses.”

Deja vu all over again, and I am so damn sick and tired of this recurring nightmare. If the poor, downtrodden union workers would make it their business to be productive and help their companies make a profit instead of making it their business to elect Democrats, maybe things would be different at EVERY SINGLE UNIONIZED BUSINESS ON EARTH. But they won’t, so it won’t.

It will be a cold day in hell before my wife or I, my children, or my grandchildren buy a car made by one of the Big Three Bailout Whores / UAW.

]]> By: mbecker908 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2337 mbecker908 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:30:54 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2337 They can be profitable and continue to gain market share even with cost parity with the Big 3. They can be profitable and continue to gain market share even with cost parity with the Big 3.

]]> By: mbecker908 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2336 mbecker908 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:28:20 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2336 (and I'm being optimistic) 1. GM, Chrysler & Ford get all the cash they want. 2. The UAW is required to give no concessions. FWIW, this really strengthens their hand going into the next contract. 3. Card check passes. 4. State right-to-work laws are invalidated. 5. Union elections are held at all currently non-union auto manufacturers. The unions make ACORN look like a kindergarten bug collecting club. They win all the elections. 6. New contracts force the price of foreign cars up by about $1,000. 7. GM, Chrysler & Ford continue to lose market share. 8. The feds pick up Big 3 legacy costs. 9. Big 3 undercuts foreign pricing by a tad. 10. Big 3 continues to lose market share. 11. Barney Frank nationalizes the auto industry. (and I’m being optimistic)

1. GM, Chrysler & Ford get all the cash they want.

2. The UAW is required to give no concessions. FWIW, this really strengthens their hand going into the next contract.

3. Card check passes.

4. State right-to-work laws are invalidated.

5. Union elections are held at all currently non-union auto manufacturers. The unions make ACORN look like a kindergarten bug collecting club. They win all the elections.

6. New contracts force the price of foreign cars up by about $1,000.

7. GM, Chrysler & Ford continue to lose market share.

8. The feds pick up Big 3 legacy costs.

9. Big 3 undercuts foreign pricing by a tad.

10. Big 3 continues to lose market share.

11. Barney Frank nationalizes the auto industry.

]]> By: Warrior http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2335 Warrior Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:23:32 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2335 for sure. You can't continue to pay high school drop-outs $75 an hour (not to mention healthcare, retirement, etc) and compete against the Japanese, I believe the free market should prevail and push these dinosaurs out of business. Of course, the free market never intended or accounted for predatory unions, gubmint interference and so on. However, it's time for the big 3 to go. for sure. You can’t continue to pay high school drop-outs $75 an hour (not to mention healthcare, retirement, etc) and compete against the Japanese, I believe the free market should prevail and push these dinosaurs out of business. Of course, the free market never intended or accounted for predatory unions, gubmint interference and so on. However, it’s time for the big 3 to go.

]]> By: asleep06 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2334 asleep06 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:18:58 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2334 Since it seems unlikely that the federal govt will continually give these highly publicized bailouts to the Big 3 and tariffs seem to me to be too ineffective, what option will the Obama admin avail themselves of? Will it be, as AChance and mbecker suggest, by passing various forms of equal compensation regulations for all auto companies operating in the US? Since it seems unlikely that the federal govt will continually give these highly publicized bailouts to the Big 3 and tariffs seem to me to be too ineffective, what option will the Obama admin avail themselves of?

Will it be, as AChance and mbecker suggest, by passing various forms of equal compensation regulations for all auto companies operating in the US?

]]> By: asleep06 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2333 asleep06 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:12:16 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2333 And what makes you think a loan will be paid back? Just because They Say So? No, you look at their economic prospects, and when you do so, you realize that it's not going to happen, especially if the UAW doesn't agree to lower benefits. No one has a right to a loan. No one. And what makes you think a loan will be paid back? Just because They Say So? No, you look at their economic prospects, and when you do so, you realize that it’s not going to happen, especially if the UAW doesn’t agree to lower benefits.

No one has a right to a loan. No one.

]]> By: DavidS1787 http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2332 DavidS1787 Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:11:16 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2332 to resign from their jobs. to resign from their jobs.

]]> By: redneck_hippie http://www.redstate.com/blackhedd/2008/12/08/the-critical-missing-piece-in-the-automaker-bailout-and-a-message-for-senator-corker/#comment-2331 redneck_hippie Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:11:13 +0000 http://wordpress.redstate.com/blackhedd/?p=88#comment-2331 with every point. Now since I only have Durbin in my state, I'll try to select a suitable substitute since I don't believe in wasting my time. Maybe I'll give ole Lindsay a shout. with every point. Now since I only have Durbin in my state, I’ll try to select a suitable substitute since I don’t believe in wasting my time. Maybe I’ll give ole Lindsay a shout.

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