It takes a family to fix a government:Moral relativism in the age of Obama


It has of course, been a long while since I have blogged on a regular basis; in fact it was only this week that I have begun re-establishing my presence on RedState, reborn from BlackRepub to BlackConservative, the name I hold today. When I first began blogging, four years ago, I was simply here, on Redstate.org (smile) as a Republican, looking for someplace to vent in the midst of two extremely liberal colleges (Texas and Wesleyan). I made my bones as a libertarian, railing against both the Left and Right,  fancying myself as an all knowing McCain like Maverick conservative, more concerned about appearing above all pro-free market regardless of the moral implications of that free market. As someone who cut their political teeth during the Bush years, I wrongly assumed that the failures of the Bush administration were due to the social conservative movement stranglehold on the administration, forcing President Bush to turn a blind eye to fiscal issues.

Four years later, we have a new president, and I, aided by the births of my two wonderful, healthy (and at times overactive) boys, see a new purpose in life, and within my mission inside of the GOP. While I hold firm in my belief that the free market is the answer to our fiscal problems, it is impossible to look at the fiscal problems without also addressing the moral crisis that America faces in the age of Obama. I once was a moral relativist myself, having adopted the libertarian stance that the government should stay out of all affairs and let the people govern themselves. This is not a stance that I have abandoned; however it must be noted that one persons freedom should not be allowed to trample on someone else’s. While the Left believes in the village of Big Government overseeing the bitter, clinging people in flyover country, I know that it is not a village and all purposeful Big Brother government that the people need, but the family. While I once viewed this as the talk of radical Christian fundamentalists, it has become abundantly clear under Obama that the family is under attack.

Many of my socially conservative friends told me that I would become more socially conservative as I grew older with my two sons. I scoffed then, but I look now and see the need for a return to moral values and sensibilities as I worry about what kind of world that I am sending my children off to, both in the sense of school, and in the sense of morality around them. The problem is not the Christian Right attempting to foist a morality on the United States,a s I previously believed, but a need to defend our way of life from the liberal left which would seek to destroy our institutions in the name of the “common good”. I of course, can turn to the arguments for both abortion and gay marriage to confirm this moral decay. Liberals want us to turn a blind eye to both abortion and gay marriage because they are convenient for adults. The need to get rid of something out of a matter of convenience is simply the way things are supposed to be done according to today’s leftist. It is not a question of whether it is right or wrong for a woman to kill something living inside of her, it is simply a question of whether this decision makes the woman happy and feel better about her place in society. The same goes with marriage: it does not matter that marriage is created for the purpose of a family, and raising children within that marriage; in today’s society, marriage has shifted from being about children, to a societal need to confirm a sexual relationship between two adults. Since Walmart marriage for convenience is already on the table, it is no surprise that with this we are also treated to no fault, easy out divorce which makes it easier to get out of a marriage than it does to break a contract for chicken feed.

But really BlackCon, why should you care? Why should it matter what two loving couples choose to do within the walls of their own home? Shouldn’t we, as conservatives support freedom and liberty? I know these are the counter arguments, because I once made them in a diary on Redstate where I made the conservative case for gay marriage. However, my road to Damascus has been paved with light, in seeing that it is not a case where both parties are able to co-exist peacefully. Marriage is only the tip of the iceberg in which the liberals have used to seek and destroy the family. We have already seen how the gay rights agenda has begun the breakdown of Christian society, which would be more than happy to live in peace, undisturbed by the government. But when liberal insist on Christians adopting the gay agenda, that is when we are called to fight back for our own things. This has begun in Massachussetts, where the Catholic Church was forced to close because it would not adopt to gay couples in Catholic Charities. How long before Christian Churches would be stripped of their tax exempt status and sued for refusing to marry gay couples? How long before Catholic and Christian schools would be sued for discrimination for refusing to allow “Heather has two mommies” in their kindergarten classrooms? And what’s more, how is this appropriate material to begin discussing with kindergarterners in the first place?

The proof is in the pudding of the Obama administration, which employs a man who believes the Earth would be better without people, a man who believes in forced sterilization and abortions, a weather underground terrorist, someone who believed 9/11 was government conspiracy, and most recently, the Safe School Czar who wants to “queer the elementary schools”, has a goal of promoting the homosexual agenda within the classroom, and encouraged a child to continue to seek sex with older men as long as he is sure to wear a condom. The President who told us that personnel is policy, and to judge him by the people he surrounds himself with, has presented this statement to America: the age of morality is over, and the age of moral relativism has begun.

This is unfortunate not only for all Americans, but especially for African-Americans, who are the hardest hit among dysfunctional families, and because of this, unsurprisingly, are most affected by crime, abusive relationships, teenage pregnancy, and of course, a disproportional amount of abortions. Where people like former Senator Santorum stood up and addressed this with among other things, the Welfare Reform act, from Obama, Black America has been treated as if it does not exist other than when it is necessary for a photo op. Obama claims to believe that the key to Black America’s success is through the creation of stronger families, and yet gives all of the power to the Left which seeks to destroy the family that even he claims to understand is the key to success for the impovershed.

So where does that leave us as a party? It leaves us to take up the mantle of the family, because this is no time for hyphenated conservatism. Too many of us, myself included, sat back like fat cats in the Bush years, all too content to fight amongst ourselves while we were certain we were marching towards a permanent Republican majority. We must remember that our 90 percent friends are not our 10 percent enemies, in every single facet of conservatism. We must throw out the liberal McCainiacs, who seek the moral relativism of accomplishment and praise over principled leadership and moral stands. If we are to die like Leonidas and the 300 Spartans, let us make a glorious stand for conservatism, for we know that a new army of conservative Spartans is coming. Now is no time to appease and kneel to our liberal enemies in the name of compromise. We will fight, we will fight, we will fight. Because in the end, it is not our village that is under attack, but our families. And our children deserve it.

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50 Comments Leave a comment

Highly reco'd and......

Kenny Solomon Monday, October 5th at 12:33AM EDT (link)

……a reco to “the-powers-that-be” for this diary to be front-paged.

Kenny Solomon
Senior Expediter
The 72 Virgins Club Travel Agency
Offices throughout America (all 57 states).

Of course you can have my guns……. Bullets first.
I didn’t say rounds, shells or magazines…… I said bullets first.

 

Awesome!

$peciallist Monday, October 5th at 12:57AM EDT (link)

GC highly reccos and rejoices in BC fka BR Christian conservative epiphany - Praise God - nt

Mike gamecock DeVine Monday, October 5th at 10:48AM EDT (link)

Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson

 
 

FP with reservations

Erick Brockway Monday, October 5th at 1:00AM EDT (link)

I like the really good diaries to hover in the Reco box for a while.
Welcome back!

Note to lefties;
“Don’t be afraid to see what you see.”
Ronald Reagan


Chip in to get rid of “Babs” (Yes ma’am) Boxer.

Agreed.

Flagstaff Monday, October 5th at 3:44AM EDT (link)

That’s a drawback of a rapidly changing front page.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

But then we don't know who reads what

Erick Brockway Monday, October 5th at 8:23AM EDT (link)

FP diaries get lots more reads I’m told. I think as many people should read the good ones as possible so…

Note to lefties;
“Don’t be afraid to see what you see.”
Ronald Reagan


Chip in to get rid of “Babs” (Yes ma’am) Boxer.

FP material, IMHO...

roscopico Tuesday, October 6th at 11:51PM EDT (link)

The final paragraph gave me tears… you really cannot deny a great piece.
Inspiring like Moe Lane’s assertion that “we cannot wait around for the cavalry, we are the cavalry”.

Highly reco’d, and many good tidings to BC.

Im Himmel gibt’s kein Bier…

 
 
 
 

He's baaaack! -nt-

Brian Simpson Monday, October 5th at 1:03AM EDT (link)

The Minority Report | Twitter | Facebook | Digg | Politics4All | Missouri Matters | Rebuild the Party
Important principles may and must be inflexible. ~ Abraham Lincoln

 

Reco'd! Front page material! nt

TNJim Monday, October 5th at 1:06AM EDT (link)

image

“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane

 

5 BlackConservative

mom2oneson Monday, October 5th at 2:28AM EDT (link)

“Because in the end, it is not our village that is under attack, but our families”

GREAT QUOTE!!!!

 

Caught you yesterday in that other thread.

Flagstaff Monday, October 5th at 3:57AM EDT (link)

I’m in and out myself.

Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!

 

BlackConservative, this is among one of the best diaries I have ever...

penguin2 Monday, October 5th at 6:51AM EDT (link)

read at RedState, and there are many. All of your points are right on. Related to your observations about the African-American family and the attack on them, no one has yet talked about the impact of the Healthcare reform bill. IMO, of all the groups in America, it will have the most negative impact on the poor and minorities. That is a subject for a different diary.

As I said, this is one of the best. Thank you for being able to put this into words. Liberalism, with help of the State is destroying the core foundation of our American Society.

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.
Benjamin Franklin

 

Re: Libertarian vs Social Conservative

kyle8 Monday, October 5th at 7:04AM EDT (link)

I have always been socially conservative. But I must warn you that no matter what intellectual road you go down you always end up with the following: It is very difficult to craft any government program or legislation that promotes social conservatism. You will usually always be better off with less government involvement in people’s lives. Laissez Faire, “Leave us alone” is almost always the best solution even to social concerns.

Of course that does not mean you cannot fight against policies that actively attack families and the social contract. Such as government funded abortion or gay marriage.

Although Libertarian I have always been against that last one because I see it as a tyranny of the minority pushing a change upon centuries old traditions.

“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle

Oh certainly kyle, agreed with you in terms of legislating social conservatism

BlackConservative Monday, October 5th at 10:15AM EDT (link)

But I think that becomes a battle that is only necessary when it is, as you say, a tyranny of the minority pushing their views on a majority. The legislation such as FMA comes out of an attack on our institutions by a people who have no respect for those institutions, and simply want everyone to feel good about themselves.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven.-Jesus Christ

 
 

I agree with the FP posts.

The_Gadfly Monday, October 5th at 7:27AM EDT (link)

Might I suggest as part of one of Erick’s Roundups or link lists instead of the unrecommendable FP status?

We’ve been called racists enough now that it shouldn’t bother us any more.

-AChance, http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/11/03/what-men-may-do-we-have-done/#comment-24463

If NY23 was a beat down for Conservatives, what do you call what happened to Progressives in NJ and VA?

inspired by ColdWarrior, http://www.redstate.com/hooah_mac/2009/11/04/ny-23-the-agony-of-defeat-not-so-much/#comment-156

 

It would be nice to roll back

Uma Richie Monday, October 5th at 8:25AM EDT (link)

no fault divorce also, at least in cases where children are involved. I credit my parents’ strong marriage and commitment to putting their children’s needs before their own as the reason my siblings and I are fully functional members of society, and conservative Republicans to boot.

I wonder how a voter who did not grow up in a family environment can comprehend the family’s role as a bedrock of our society.

……………………………………………………………………………..
“We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless.” -Lech Walesa

Uma Richie

mom2oneson Monday, October 5th at 2:54PM EDT (link)

That is funny you mentioned no fault divorce. I was writing out a $10 check (not much but I owe them about $130 that I’ve been trying to repay at $5 or $10 once or twice a year) to an organization that helps homeless people that helped us years ago. They paid for my birth certificate send away and then later paid the deposit to get our lights on at our apt we were approved for in the projects. They were so nice.. when I walked in I was very overwhelmed by all the men there. I didn’t feel like I was above them and none did anything to me but it was one of those moments where you can’t believe this is really your life and I just started crying and couldn’t stop. We lived at a different shelter but had to go to this one for my birth certificate send off fee. One of the men that worked there took me into his office and got me a drink and gave me a few to compose myself…so this place was VERY nice I am not criticizing them at all.

My dad decided he wanted a relationship with me so we met up a few weeks ago. Anyway I was writing out this check and saw the United Way logo on their page when getting their address and I thought oh no another democrat non profit thing. It came full circle to me them, I saw how irresponsible he had been to us and thought if there were no no fault divorce laws he never would have been able to do what he did, I never would have needed to live in a shelter had they stayed married, I would have had a home to go back to and would have had a home all while growing up. The whole dem policies and the great amount of need for social assistance came full circle in my head. Now I am not saying a law makes a person or not but I do see how they can open the door and make it “easier” on those not wanting to do the right thing. It provides an alternative or support for them.

For the last question I think the only way at least for me is by having my own child but it comes at a cost of seeing what you missed type of thing. Also to note the few nice single Christian men I’ve come into contact through the years with don’t feel strongly about homeschooling /private schooling or about having a stay at home wife so I doubt I’ll be able to provide my son with a dad or have more children. I’m sure most will change after they have kids but I require that he values it already.

.

You are the one person

Uma Richie Tuesday, October 6th at 9:27AM EDT (link)

who gives me hope of breaking the cycle with or without the cooperation of men. When your son grows up I wish you would go on a speaking tour from project to project imploring single moms not to raise thugs. (I also think you could teach others how to homeschool on a library card.)

You are a great mom and you’re doing an awesome job. I’ll say a prayer that your reconnection with your father enriches life for all of you.

……………………………………………………………………………..
“We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless.” -Lech Walesa

Uma Richie

mom2oneson Wednesday, October 7th at 10:44AM EDT (link)

Thank you for your kind words. :)

 
 
 

Blame Reagan

Menlo Monday, October 5th at 5:25PM EDT (link)

He was the first to sign it into law as California’s governor. Only then did the other states follow his lead.

“Guess which party these big insurance companies favor? Big companies love big government.” -Ann Coulter

Blame California and the times.

Achance Monday, October 5th at 5:45PM EDT (link)

There were all too many really bad marriages being held together by draconian divorce laws in many states and by a huge social stigma attaching to divorce. Call it the law of unintended consequences; nobody saw making it easier to get out of a truly bad marriage as the slippery slope to huge percentages of the Country living lives of serial monogamy and dragging truly dysfunctional kids along on their sleighride to Hell.

Looking back at one “no-fault” divorce and coming close to a divorce more than once in my current marriage, Wife 1.0 and I had no particular reason to divorce other than we didn’t much like each other anymore and both of us were remedying that by seeking “more space.” “More Space” was/is code for “I’m seeking body parts unknown.” I don’t know which would have been better; it wasn’t a good marriage and it was at times a poisonous environment for our daughter. Yet, the breakup was so nasty, and most of that nastiness came from her lawyer, that my daughter has NO relationship with her mother - NONE; her mother didn’t even come or send a gift to her wedding.

Interestingly, my wife and I, both having been through divorce, are much more able to just let things slide and not nearly so dedicated to finding our identity in the marriage. Frankly, being married to me was probably a detriment to her career; she’d always avoided controversy and I was controversy personified. We had lots of fights, mostly about her kids, we split up a few times, but whether age or experience was the key, I don’t know, but neither ever resorted to the old “the best way to forget one is in the arms of another” ploy. And young and foolish people really do believe that you can forget one in the arms of another.

In Vino Veritas

I wonder what critical mass

Uma Richie Tuesday, October 6th at 9:10AM EDT (link)

of failed marriages leads to the mess we are in now. Or perhaps it takes only one or two (i.e. Stanley Ann’s).

There must be a reason your generation lost confidence in marriage. How many baby boomers grew up in dysfunctional families because their parents jumped into “shipping off tomorrow” marriages that turned sour once they actually had to live together? Or was it a planned attack on marriage in 1960s universities?

……………………………………………………………………………..
“We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless.” -Lech Walesa

Two things: The pill and more women in the workplace.

Achance Tuesday, October 6th at 12:37PM EDT (link)

Sex with little danger of pregnancy and much more contact between unrelated males and females and marriage started taking a big hit. Best thing that’s happened to marriage since the pill is AIDS.

In Vino Veritas

 
 
 
 
 

Nail, hammer, etc.

Socrates Monday, October 5th at 8:42AM EDT (link)

The problem is not the Christian Right attempting to foist a morality on the United States,a s I previously believed, but a need to defend our way of life from the liberal left which would seek to destroy our institutions in the name of the “common good”.

Our goal should be to have laws and government systems which support morality, rather than enforcing immorality. The problem with allowing gay marriage is that it puts a societal stamp of approval on gay unions, which from my point of view (and that of most people) enforces immorality.

Anyway, recommended.


Gone 2500 years, still not PC.

 

BlackConservative, great doesn't do it justice . . .

mailloux Monday, October 5th at 9:58AM EDT (link)

This is a superb diary. You have powerfully gotten to the root of the matter: destroy the family and you destroy civilization.

Thank you for writing this!

Take Care, mailloux

 

this so well sums up seeds of ideas in my head

techsan Monday, October 5th at 10:12AM EDT (link)

This is a brilliant summary of so many threads running through my head. Thank you for taking time to put it on “paper”. I very much believe you can judge the health of a nation by it’s family.

As an IT employee, my company works with many Indian consultants. Interestingly, in the part of India where some coworkers live, extended family is incredibly important. It is common, if not the norm, for 3 generations (or more) to live in the same house. Sons live with parents and grandparents…all taking care of each other. While I don’t look at this with an eye to “import” the customs, I do look at it with an eye toward the future. Given the strength of the Indian family, I can’t help but feel that their culture will grow on the world stage. Conversely, it concerns me that my children’s country could shrink on the same stage, for reasons you eloquently describe.

In the end, all we have on our side of the debate are facts and history.

 

Thank you BlackConservative

Andy W. Monday, October 5th at 10:20AM EDT (link)

For putting into words for me something that has been weighing on my mind and which I was seriously considering writing about just this morning.

The movement from on high in this country to eliminate any rule of morality other than relativism or even forced immorality is appalling and cannot be allowed to succeed.

I was blessed to grow up in a whole family. We had our issues and I am far from a perfect person, but I was blessed nonetheless.

I am aware that it is not workable to legislate morality. It is morally repugnant to force religion on people. Each person must make his or her own moral decisions. But I fear that the road we are currently traveling as a country will cause this country to lose its bearings and fall into irrelevance and impotence in the eyes of the rest of the world. Our moral compass needle has lost its magnetism and is freewheeling.

God is not for or against countries. God is for individuals that make up countries. He blesses (and disciplines) those whom He loves.

come on 2010 and 2012

Keep up the good work Sam Graves (R, MO-6)

 

Good diary, but to be the dissenting voice

aesthete Monday, October 5th at 12:17PM EDT (link)

While it’s true that social/cultural conservatives have a much better grasp on the moral and societal problems that confront our nation (infidelity, abortion, underperforming students, ghetto violence, the list goes on) I find that, with the notable exception of abortion, their “solutions” tend to be somewhat underwhelming. As an example, let’s look at the growing acceptance of homosexuality as a sexual norm: though it is accurately assessed by social conservatives as being damaging to the institution of marriage, the “solution” seems to be to prevent the government from issuing a slip of paper to two people who live together. Would it not be better to remove government from the business of marriage and entrust it to those who will be better stewards of such a sacred institution (churches, mosques, synagogues)? The same goes with marriage: social conservatives rightly remind us that marriage is a sacred institution which has positive benefits, and lament the break-down of marriage, but the solution seems to be providing tax cuts to married couples, or to provide more affordable loans. This is besides the question of whether or not it is moral to force another human being to change their behavior by using the power of government, which is certainly an open question, as far as Christianity goes. In short, the question of whether or not a government should concern itself with the morality of its citizens is one without a clear answer. (I personally fall on the side of that it’s both somewhat creepy and too much in the tradition of considering the citizenry as “subjects” who must be paternalistically “guided” to the right decision, but I digress.) Even if we do accept that the government does have that prerogative, we have to acknowledge that the solutions offered up so far are either ineffective, or such egregious offenses to freedom that they are incompatible with republican government, or even the precepts of religion itself!

To conclude my long-winded post, I would probably agree with much of what the social conservatives of the 80s stood for (w/the exception of the drug war), as their goals were both limited and seemed to stem from a “leave me alone” type platform. The social conservatism of today, OTOH, with its ineffectiveness and seemingly perennial penchant to intrude in the private affairs of its citizens, is something I can’t get behind, esp. considering that many (though certainly not all) of the most prominent social conservatives in the public sphere gave Bush a free pass on his fiscal irresponsibility.

Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand

“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC

society has an interest in reproduction and rearing of healthy, stable children

LJ "Beaglescout" Miller Monday, October 5th at 2:12PM EDT (link)

That’s why there should be a society-wide way of recognizing marriage and reproduction. The question for gay marriage is, what is society’s interest in gays getting married? Is it something society cares about one way or another? If not, then why bother with it?

I don’t see why society would care whether gays got married or not. So why should society go to the bother of delegating government to marry people who are not going to reproduce?

“Each of us has a natural right, from God, to defend his person, his liberty, and his property.”

–Frederic Bastiat

Indeed, society does

aesthete Monday, October 5th at 2:49PM EDT (link)

but does government? See, it’s the aggregation of society and government which I find harmful: government does not define society, nor is it the end-all, be-all solution to society’s problems. Using the terms “society” and “government” as synonyms is dangerous, because unlike most elements of society, the only tools that government has at its disposal are coercive in nature, as suits its nature as the entity that we have entrusted with a monopoly on coercive force. Therefore, we should be careful in utilizing said force, and be clear in what we want government to do for us. Long is the list of abuses rendered to the citizenry under the all-to-true reasoning of that a given action is good/bad for society. From your postings, I know that you don’t support such a statist line of reasoning at all, but here, it seems that you advocate for society’s interest over individual freedom.

On a side note, there are several things that society has an interest in promoting, such as and educated and prosperous populace. By and large, and for whatever reason, gays tend to be both. So might you not also argue, using the reasoning behind societal interest, that increasing incentives for gays to emigrate and stay in the US would be a potential interest of society? Now, my example has a couple of holes, and is not one that I agree with (more of a “There is no such thing as society” person myself).

I, personally, am against gay marriage because in real life, it tends to lead to gays demanding that a pastor/congregation/denomination accept their marriage as valid, or that they marry them, which is an infringement on their freedoms (freedom of association, specifically).

Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand

“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC

Typo

aesthete Monday, October 5th at 2:53PM EDT (link)

“all-to-true reasoning of” should be “all-too-true reasoning”

Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand

“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC

 

aesthete

mom2oneson Monday, October 5th at 3:04PM EDT (link)

when I was going on about the horrors of CPS once civil truth encouraged me to write about conservative theory vs what our leaders have done you would be so good at writing that type of diary I don’t mean with the CPS issue but with it in general like with their faulty solutions.

 

I didn't mean to aggregate society and government

LJ "Beaglescout" Miller Monday, October 5th at 4:58PM EDT (link)

I thought that was indicated, if not clear, when in the last sentence I wrote of society (i.e. voters) delegating to government (their servants) to formalize gay marriage.

Of course, before changing the language to society’s interests, I first started my comment by writing that government had an interest in reproduction. This is obviously true, unless government perversely wants to kill off the same people from whom it draws its remit. I wouldn’t put anything past the communist/ luddite/ ecopagan left of the Democrat party, but don’t believe that voluntary human extinction is an official position of the US government. Government wanting to continue, it does have a selfish interest in reproduction of the people. Otherwise taxes will not be paid, program clientele will disappear, and government parasites will be out of a job.

So… in an ideal world should the Federal government care whether people get married? IMHO, no. It should just be the means by which the country is protected from enemies, the vessel of the law that is our mutual self-defense pact against violators of our God given rights, and the framework that allows our State governments to coexist.

However, in the real world there is a problem. If State A wants to endorse gay marriage and State B does not, when a gay couple married in state A move to B will they be treated as married or not? Something must be done to allow the people of B to define their institutions as they desire, and not as desired by A. That’s the whole point of the several States.

The other problem is the income tax, with its different brackets for married and unmarried. Because of this, the Federal Government cares a LOT about who is married and who isn’t. And with the restoration of the marriage penalty next year, the government is looking for a way to make gays pay more taxes than they do now. IMHO, that’s the real reason why government weasels want gay marriage. I’m in favor of repealing the 16th and 17th amendments, and if that happened the big reason for gay marriage would go away.

Maybe in the long run the answer is that marriage is not something that is performed by the state, but as you stated something performed by reliigous and other voluntary associations. So you could have a religious marriage, and it would be within the religious grouping. If it made a difference to the State, then the State would vet some marriages and not others, according to the laws of the State. That way no State would be required to reciprocate marriage status with other States, only with the religious and voluntary associations that performed the marriages in the first place.

The first step is still to repeal the 16th and 17th amendments.

“Each of us has a natural right, from God, to defend his person, his liberty, and his property.”

–Frederic Bastiat

Couple of points

aesthete Monday, October 5th at 8:47PM EDT (link)

First, and I don’t mean to offend, but I have no idea why we as conservatives should care what society wants, considering that its goals do not always (or often, even) conform very well to a free-market, republican government. On a related note, government certainly has a vested interest in making sure that someone is around to pay the bills, but again, I don’t know why that is our concern as voters and policymakers.

“However, in the real world there is a problem…” In the real world, there are several problems. Must they, too, be subject to a top-down government solution? Is the answer to that question is yes, then we have no valid reason to oppose liberal governance, and in fact are advocating only for smarter government. If the answer is no, then what makes gay marriage, as a problem, the government’s purview as opposed to, say, inequality (which is a load of bull, but useful for the given example)? In this particular case, the solution is simple: states are free to establish their own laws as limited by their constitutions, and the federal government should stay out of it as much as they can.

As regards the tax, I don’t see why it would be a bad thing to expand the tax benefits that a married couple receives to other unions (roommates and the like included), including a gay couple, unless you are sticking with the idea that it is within the purview of the government to stimulate reproduction, in which case I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Hopefully my post doesn’t come off as harsh, strident, or condescending. You’re among my favorite diarists on Redstate, and I would hate for you to think that I harbor any animosity towards you. Still, I think that these are important issues that sometimes don’t get the thought and consideration that they deserve.

Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand

“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC

 
 

Remember, the govt

azred Monday, October 5th at 5:22PM EDT (link)

was not the product of itself, but of the people. Social and moral institutions of marriage were in place BEFORE the tax codes, and the social programs, and where a result of the commonly held values of the country.

With the introduction of moral relativism and the left itself, the commonly held values have been under attack. It is only then that the govt is perceived as not in line with the people. It is only then as the rise of the left agenda shines its spotlight on those areas that are at odds to their agenda. And with the decline of morality in general the whole system comes into question.

The family unit is key to the success of the culture and the country. The last 40 years has shown what happens if this is not viewed as the top priority.

You're absolutely right

aesthete Monday, October 5th at 8:03PM EDT (link)

But as I said, while social conservatives tend to be accurate in their prognoses of many societal problems, their solutions are underwhelming to the extreme, or so intrusive as to get overly involved in private affairs and to be completely antithetical to the principles of limited government (an extreme version of this would be the Russian route: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471324/Sex-motherland-Russian-youths-encouraged-procreate-camp.html). Perhaps I’m too pragmatic, but I don’t see the merit in wasting time and money on bills which won’t do anything. Personally, I think that if social conservatives spent half the time and effort reforming schools and pushing for school choice as they do on gay marriage and other (non-abortion) issues, they would achieve much more for their issues.

Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand

“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC

aesthete- that is key

Scope Tuesday, October 6th at 12:13AM EDT (link)

“I think that if social conservatives spent half the time and effort reforming schools and pushing for school choice as they do on gay marriage and other (non-abortion) issues, they would achieve much more for their issues.”

The leftists have gotten way too much control in our educational system, albeit for their own purposes of breaking down what were once American traditions and values. It’s no surprise to any conservative that the key to getting to the Progressive goals, they had to breakdown, through moral relativism, anything that was something we are all born with called conscience. As BlackConservative said himself, he could still come up with arguments for abortion and gay marriage. The moral relativists have a long way to go with their arguments, which usually only support their own needy/weak/uneducated minds. Even they cannot say, with certainty, that murder is acceptable, because the person committing the murder may have grown up in dire circumstances, it was what they felt was right at the time (the woman who drowned her children because the devil told her to do it), because in someones culture it was acceptable (the suicide bombers) and etc. I have a right to smoke crack, it is only my body that is involved, until you don’t have the ability to operate a vehicle, and, kill other innocent people in an accident. The values and traditions of American society are under attack by those that want the easy way out. If it feels good, do it. I don’t have to work, and I will sit back and let all those that have a big income share their wealth with me. Relegious education has been on the downslide for years. The ACLU may have been a good organization at one time, but, many organizations that grow, they have moved far away from doing any good, just as the Unions, ACORN, PETA and the like. I blame the ACLU for the most destruction, as they have been on a roll, for a long time, not helping the people they were created to help, but, have moved in a Communist direction in destroying every religious fibre that once existed, and what principles our country was founded on.

 

Schools are tied to the gay marriage issue

azred Thursday, October 15th at 12:17AM EDT (link)

Gay marriage, gay rights, and in whole the legitimizing of the gay lifestyle as a right as opposed to a choice does impact the education system.

You’re right, if we had control of the schools, we could reverse much of the mess, similar to the long term drift to the left that has occurred over the last 40-50 years. Once the waters have been corrupted though, and the corruption gains a life of its own, it is extremely difficult to undo it. The moral relativism that is so prevalent in the left opens the door to anything and everything. Without an absolute right and wrong, the morals of the society quickly erode. It does not necessarily equate to all people are bad that don’t follow a clear cut moral right and wrong, but the trend of society will always move to evil and wrong doing as evil and wrong doing are justified as ok in the new meaining (no matter what is defined in this moving category).

My point regarding the schools is with many examples of educators pushing their own agenda, our kids are now force fed. And as soon as it is legitimized by marriage, the fight against it is lost. Unlike what many will say, let people do what they want, if that was all it is, there would be no risk. But the activists and the educators don’t see it that way. They want to promote (Kevin Jennings is a heavy promoter and a Czar!). They want to force acceptance, and if not, suffer consequences (Hate Crime Bill??).

So yes it is a big deal. Unfortunately, it is only one of many big deals we face now.

 
 
 
 
 
 

BR, now BC, it's so good to see you back!

janis Monday, October 5th at 12:40PM EDT (link)

You came back with a vengeance this time, didn’t you?! Thanks so much for writing this diary as you have expressed the fear and frustrations of so many of us right now. We see our children and grandchildren’s futures being stripped of morality as we would teach it to them and having it replaced with the sterility of the left’s moral relativism. And that is just evil cloaked in a sociological term.

Your growth as a political creature is directly tied to your evolution as a husband and father. That’s the way it’s been for me as well. What makes for an interesting theoretical discussion when you’re single and childless is something completely different when you have a family and measure society’s quality by how it will affect your kids. Welcome Home, BR/BC!!!! You’ve been missed.

 

Great diary!

tcgeol Monday, October 5th at 12:54PM EDT (link)

Its good to see you back!

Just your typical bitter gun- and God-clinger

 

Great diary, and also as a father of

izoneguy Monday, October 5th at 2:38PM EDT (link)

2 over active sons (recovering from a long weekend) I concur that it will take stong families to fix a government. My sons are not supporters of Obama any longer….I told them about Obama’s plan for year round school and longer school hours…..I told them to “tell their friends” about that idea….

“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson

izoneguy- That was very clever

Scope Monday, October 5th at 2:57PM EDT (link)

and it has probably turned their entire school against Obama with just a few words, no matter what grade they are in.

 
 

Nice.

c17wife Tuesday, October 6th at 4:37AM EDT (link)

Very nice. Funny what a couple of kids will do to ya, eh?

Duty is ours, outcomes belong to God.~Mike Pence

Yup-good to see your back around these parts too

BlackConservative Tuesday, October 6th at 11:02AM EDT (link)

Word on the street was you took a hiatus too. Are you back in our part of the world yet, or still in Europe?

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven.-Jesus Christ

Still in Europe...

c17wife Tuesday, October 6th at 2:03PM EDT (link)

I can’t comment much because the new site hates me and most of what I have to say contains language that is prohibited. So, there you have it.

Duty is ours, outcomes belong to God.~Mike Pence

Heh.

NightTwister Tuesday, October 6th at 2:06PM EDT (link)

I know what you mean. Great to “hear” from you, c17wife. Looks like I’m headed back out your way in November. Boeblingen, Regensburg, Munich, Turin & Vicenza this time.

Ah...Munich. Fun city.

c17wife Wednesday, October 7th at 5:49AM EDT (link)

Hubby and I spent some time in Vicenza as well. He was deployed there in 2000/2001. The kids and I went over during Christmas and really enjoyed it. Enjoy your trip!

Duty is ours, outcomes belong to God.~Mike Pence

 
 
 
 

Good to see you.

Uma Richie Wednesday, October 7th at 7:53AM EDT (link)

I’m glad to know you’ve been around the whole time.

……………………………………………………………………………..
“We hold our heads high, despite the price we have paid, because freedom is priceless.” -Lech Walesa

 
 

WB, BC (BR).

NightTwister Tuesday, October 6th at 2:11PM EDT (link)

You’ve been missed. Glad to hear the family is doing well. I’m getting close to the other side now….3 1/2 years to an empty nest. 30+ years now with at least one kid in the house. Trust me when I say….I’m ready for the next chapter.

 

wow!

sanders6jr Thursday, October 8th at 3:09PM EDT (link)

That post says it all, exactly where we are as a Nation, unfortunately.

“The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” — Alexis de Tocqueville

 

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