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He'd always say

"Boy, get yourself an education, but be careful, you could educate yourself to be stupid!"

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So they need to move the goal posts out farther.
Remember:
The AGW promoters are lying.
They claimed to *know* that AGW was happening *NOW*. That storms were getting more frequent and stronger *NOW*.
That the oceans were warming and acidifying *NOW*.
That temperatures were going to continue increasing *NOW*.
They are wrong, as us on the skeptical side predicted.
They are simply rewriting their models to make sure they never have to visit their assumptions.
The biggest assumption they do now want to visit is that they actually knew what they were doing.

That we were supposed to have record landfall for Hurricanes on the American continent for the past two years...

I don't remember...did we even have one make landfall the year after Katrina?

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We have had something in the range of two Cat-1 storms hit the US.
There were some strong storms that hit Mexico/Central America.
Total storm count, and total strength, are both way down globally since 2005.
Taht obviously does not make a trend, but if climate is as chaotic as it appears, we should be happy for 2 years of good storm results.
AGW is in implosion mode.
If it becomes the popular perception in time for the election, it will help blow out the extremists who have been bs'ing the public for so long.
I hope McCain is nimble enough to read the writing on the wall irt the AGW scam.

2 in 3 years...and don't forget...2006 was predicted by the educated idiots to be the worse on record!

Hopefully McCain will change his stance on Cap & Trade legislation!

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Maybe he can do something for the nuclear power industry first then move on.

apparently he's decided on eight because he's commented recently that it he couldn't balance the budget in four years after all that he would do it in eight

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“Natural variations over the next 10 years might be heading in the cold direction,” Wood said. “If you run the model long enough, eventually global warming will win.”

Global warming will win? sounds almost like this guy's at a ball game rooting for the home team doesn't it?

Thene theres the pasrt about letting the models run long enough...what he didn't say is if you put in the right data it will "win even quicker"

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It will eventually land on its edge and stay there.

"I believe we must adjourn this meeting to some other place." - The last recorded words of Adam Smith.

n/t n/t n/t

Oh..and the Ice Caps melting that proved global Warming, you know the ones that went away and created a norther passage for shipping in the North Atlantic that proved we wewre warming at an alarming rate...It seems they're back and thicker than ever after one year...

But MMGW is real and we shouldn't be fooled when the next Ice age appears!

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wreaked on an innocent world by the execrable Cheney and his minions at Halliburton. It vaporizes water that then falls as increased precipitation on the ice caps.

So while the precipitation takes the form natural to that habitat, this just cleverly disguises the warming and provides fodder to hick charlatans like the ones on RS. As warming progresses, the unstoppable hockey stick will be manifest and put an end to life as we know it on this planet.

Inquiring minds know the score!

Don't forget GW Bush and his "Big Oil" loving Daddy!

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But it is also predicted to snow in NE Wyoming. I think we have about a foot of snow coming along with 50 mph winds and 70 mph gusts. It is going to be enough to shake my already weak confidence in MMGW.

"I repudiate the idea of voting for a Democrat

eight inches of snow in the last 48 hours.

Which proves that the climate is changing at a rapidly variable constant rate disproportionate to 350,000-year-old gas bubbles drawn from ancient ice cores as CO2 and methane deposits and glaciers melt and seas rise and fall and hybrids and fear and then more fear and then flooding and then ...

chaos.

Peace,

Bill Gnade

‘It will never be known what acts of cowardice have been motivated by the fear of not looking sufficiently progressive.’ - Charles Péguy

will it still be there when I arrive????

Get this...it's been in the 40s in south Texas the last two nights...If global worming heats us up any more...I don't think I can stand it!

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to just below freezing last night. Had to turn my heater on. It's MAY people! I'm supposed to have the A/C on!

"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me

Is giving the rest of us guilt by association.

Thanks for not reading anything anyone said here and projecting your own ignorance on the discussion. I know this is a lot to ask but maybe maybe just maybe try to find fault with the point being made ?

I mean engage the Republican side of your brain and reason things through. Surely if we are being such morons you can actually come up with some kind of reasoned argument that will show us the error of our ways ?

If someone said if you invest in a dow jones index over 70 years, there may be a 10 year period where your profits are flat or maybe a 5 year period where you lose money, BUT over the long haul, the index will do better than your mattress, would you jump all over this? that all the factors that go into the stock market are complex, but trends emerge over time.

The article says GW is complex and not linear. This post seems to be saying the fact it's NOT linear and NOT simple enough to explain using two soda cans means that the scientist behind it are evil lefties trying to ruin us.

teh post was talking about the ability of the ocean to hold more CO2 as it cools vs. releaing CO2 as it heats and that CO2 increases may following warming not preceed it. You clearly have a hard time following a civil discussion.

ten year period. Of course it's already been ten years since we saw any temperature increase, so by the time the ten year period teh article is talking about ends, it will have been 20 years without warning. Then there will be the next short ten year period. At what point are you going to realize taht the computer models may be wrong?

Over the last ten years or so, we were told that things were going to grow RAPIDLY worse and that runaway GW would start showing its effects in highly visible and tragic ways soon.

Every time the facts show evidence against a rapid, destructive trend to warming, we get "But its a long term thing! You need to be patient to see it."

You can't have it both ways. Scare me with science or scare me with fiction. The latter belongs in the movie theater with Freddie and Jason, the other needs to be shown to me with facts.

"Government of the people, by the people, for the people."
A. Lincoln

That it was happening *NOW*.
Hansen has been peddling his doom and posing as a martyr for decades.
2005 was the start of the reign of killer storms.
The heat wave of 1998 was the start of never ending heat waves.
If there is actually anyone who McCain listens to, now would be a good time to get him to stop worrying about the AGW crisis.
And to start drilling some oil.

Thats going on 20 years now ? And CO2 output is the highest it ever has been.

What the post says is that there are whole lot of predictions that were flat out wrong

In particularly the good mr Hansen's predicitions

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=1...

"In April 2008, scientists at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory announced that while the La Niña was weakening, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation—a larger-scale, slower-cycling ocean pattern—had shifted to its cool phase."

and

"Unlike El Niño and La Niña, which may occur every 3 to 7 years and last from 6 to 18 months, the PDO can remain in the same phase for 20 to 30 years."
.
Maybe 20 -30 years will be long enough for people to forget how bad their models were and they can recycle them.

people to give your religion the money it needs to grow and the Rev Gore and fellow "earthers" have been ginning up the masses for a good 10+ years now and the money is starting to flow....now would not be a good time for the "facts" to change for the Religion of Global Warming now would it?

Lets see over the 70 years of this index we have been warming, cooling, warming, and now cooling...I think my money would have done much better in my mattress because this trend would have given me what I started with....Earth...which is what my mattress would have given me!

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Not bad for making a science movie the way Michael Moore makes documentaires.
Al Gore: The profiteer prophet.

You can scoff if you wish Lib Rep but the evidence is piling up to show these GW chicken littles to be the fools they are.

Starting with jackbenimble's post, you totally glossed over the fact that CO2 level increases lag warming trends so how is it possible that these increases cause Global Warming?

Secondly, there are a couple of recent studies that demonstrate a correlation between solar activity and GW as well as other studies that prove a correlation between ocean currents and GW. I haven't seen anything substantiating this but my instict tells me that the ocean currents that influence Global Weming/Cooling, can be proven to be influenced by the aforementiond solar activity.

Finally, you want us to act like there is no political motivation involved in the alarmists propaganda. How else do you explain the push to force the US to reduce CO2 emissions but allow China and India, (who are the worse polluters) to skate past it?

America is expected to increase the cost of doing business in our country to decrease CO2 emissions. Businesses move to countries with developing economies who are the worse polluters on the planet. This just happens to cause a redistribution of wealth from "those greedy Americans" to nations that are poorer and less fortunate than us, (which gives liberals orgasms). But we're supposed to believe the authors of this entire scheme and those politicians that use it to increase their own liberal inclinations have entirely altruistic motives? Can I sell you some ocean front property in Dallas?..I'm sure you'd love the views and the great deep see fishing you can do there!

I wish I could remember where I read it...it might have been a book review. Whatever the source, the story laid out the earlier activities of the MMGW alarmist leaders...funny thing...it seams these same "Respected leaders" were the most vocal in the late 60s and early 70s demanding the American economy be regulated lest all mankind become extinct in the coming global ice age!

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If natural factors can stop "man-made" global warming for a period of ten years by causing natural cooling, couldn't it be argued that natural warming was responsible for the warming we saw in the 1990s? Incidentally, it's stopped warming since 1998 and has been holding steady to slightly cooling since. I hate to burst your nihilistic bubble, but you and Al are all washed up in your desire to throw human progress under the bus. It's OK to love your car. God bless Big Oil!

Tim Schieferecke

But that would mean these "Experts" would have to admit the possibility that they could possibly be wrong about something.

Of course the prospect that they could ever be wrong is too much for their fragile egos to withstand! Besides, They've got to justify the years they spent and the small fortune they paid to know it all!

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I hope it is argued.

This is a complex issue and hard to get your arms around. It could be a big nothing or the biggest issue of our day. Hard, at this point, to tell which.

The dumbest thing would be to pretend its not an issue because you don't like the politics of the scientists doing the research or the messiness of the debate.

This is just one more point...It smacks of the experts knowing they are wrong and trying desperately to come up with a way to get people to ignore the FACT that the earth is cooling and has been for 10 years

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Is whether or not we lose our heads and "ACT NOW TO SAVE THE WORLD AND OUR CHILDREN!!!!"

You responded to my list of questions with a simple "I don't know."
None of the rest matters right now until and unless those questions are answered. IF we need to act now, then answering those questions should be pretty simple and straight-forward.

But, no. The AGW cranks around here are too scared to pop in and drop an answer and the only one honest enough about it just doesn't know.

So, the only viable alternative is to sit back and allow the data to accumulate and keep the government out of the business of trying to solve a potentially nonexistent "problem".

"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me

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Can you give me the exact date and time of the next terrorist attacks?

Can you tell me exactly how many will be killed?

Any honest answer is "I don't know"

But that's no reason to pretend the threat doesn't exist and that nothing needs to be done.

recent data shows the earth has cooled for the last ten years an the so called scientists in this article says the earth will cool for another 10 years but don't believe there is no global warming based on the cooling...it's just not warming as much as it would have otherwise...meanwhile we are expected to pass global cap & trade legislation, expand the reach and scope of the EPA, wreck the American economy all on the "Possibility that GW might exist?

I don't think so!

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Can I have some of what you're smoking?

OK, let's play it your way. I warn you, it's going to make you look pretty stupid, though:

1) What is causing it? ie: How is this happening?

2) What will be the human cost if left unchecked? (ie: How many will die?)

3) What can we, as Americans do, to affect it?

4) Who else in the world will actually put their money where their mouth is and help us?

5) How much will the "solution" cost us?

6) What will that do to our economy?

7) What will be the human cost of implementing the solution (ie: How many will die?)

8) What can we do to adapt to the presence of constant terrorism if we can't eliminate it?

9) What will adapting cost us?

10) What will that do to our economy?

11) What will be the human cost of adapting? (ie: How many will die if we adapt?)

And now, the kicker:
12) What is best?
a. Letting the terrorists have their wayO
b. Attempting to kill all the terrorists we possibly can
c. Letting the terrorists continue what they're doing and just ignore them and adapt to their activities

Oh, and Quantify your arguments, if you please. "Lots will die." is not an acceptable answer.

I believe these questions have already been applied. Care to offer Your answers since you obviously feel the government was wrong?

"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me

or are you going to just make your typical off topic superfluous comments. Nothing in this thread about political leanings of researchers, just more data that their computer models are worthless.

lr,
Either start actually responding to the posts - or at least stop lying about what others say- or perhaps you should post elsewhere?
I have no idea of the politics of the scientists who wrote the study referenced above, nor do I care, what the politics of any scientist is. And I know quite a few.
I care about the integrity of the process.
If you think AGW is acting like well proven science, like Evolution or Quantum Mechanics, you are not paying attention.
If you think a 90% confidence level - the confidence level of AGW, even according to its promoters- is the level of confidence required for science- you are uninformed.
And if you think scientists are somehow immune or excluded from making very large errors, even as a group, then you are ignorant of history.
The data has diverged long ago from the AGW models. the promoters are rewriting the models and even, as the IPCC states openly, editing the science to fit the conclusion.
Skeptics are not part of a conspiracy.
Skpetics are not being paid off by some cabal of big bidness.
They are simply asking taht AGW proves its assertions, like any other thesis, and pointing out the fact that AGW has not done so by any reasonable standard.
Your pose as a Republican seems as insincere as your pose as an informed observer of the climate science issue.

I don't have a DR. before my name...but when I walk outside in San Antonio Texas in May and the night time temperatures are 40 degrees, and I know it's snowing a foot of snow in the north west this late in the year...GW looks less and less likely as a viable scientific theory...

Now those who believe so much that simply isn't true to demend that we not confuse them with the fact's is beyond ironic and becoming absurd!

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ice skating in April on the river there. They'll just say San Antonio freezing equals warming. Beware of ManBearPig!
Tim Schieferecke

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It is an unproven and currently unprovable theory (also it is currently unfalsifiable). Making it no different from I.D.

"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me

but evolution is supported by multiple lines of evidence, from fossils to genetics to evo devo.
It can be falsified, and has been rigorously tested.
As a very active and faithful Chrisitan, I find myself puzzled by the conclusion that there is some sort of competition between Christianity and science.

You're right...this isn't the place...but there is plenty of evidence that would indicate that evolutionary scientists have accepted Darwin's theory and skewed the evidence to fit their assumptions.

As a Christian you should understand the incompatibility of Darwinian Evolution with Christianity since evolution would require death being present before Adam's fall which directly contradicts scripture and is a direst attack on the need for a savior since the concept of original sin would be eliminated.

and now...back to the MMGW discussion


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I don't beleive scientists have skewed the evidence on evolution. I do not agree with your explanation that a particular interpretation of scripture requires ignoring the science. St. Augustine said long long ago that theological interpretation must follow reason and knowledge. Evolution is based on multiple lines of evidence, and frankly when I read books on Evolutionary Development, it is clear that we are not here by accident. I know more than a few PhD level biologists who are Christians and who are reconciled with Evoluion, and use it everyday in their work. My daughter is one of those people, in her undergrad major and her lab work. Evolution poses no threat at all to my faith or the the faith of the vast majority of Christians. God is much bigger than our science or any single interpretation of the Bible or our theology.
The focus on the failure of AGW as science is not equal to the disputes over evolution. AGW is one of many apocalyptic pop beliefs that have occured in history. It is yet another conclusion whose proponents have created models conciously or not, to prove it. This latest study, that it is going to get cold before we all roast, is just the latest implosion of AGW.
Evolution has never had a major tenet implode like this, and has been strengthened by the past, not contradicted, as has AGW.
Enough for now.
It is enough that we can agree on vital politics and climate issues.

He is not making science arguments.

That politics and religion are "two different worlds," then we can certainly say the same about science and religion.

However, ask your daughter how macroevolution leads to metamorphosis. Or bisexuality, for that matter.

I really don't want to get into a dragged out discussion on this here but I have in another thread recently so look it up. I will say there is plenty of evidence developed by numerous scientists that call into question many of the assumptions made by Darwinian evolution.

If you doubt me check out research by the following:
Dr. John Witcomb
Dr. Ken Hamm
Dr. Walter Brown
Dr. Robert Gentry
Duane T. Gish, Ph.D.
Dr. Larry Vardimon
Dr. Richard Walker
Dr. Emmett Williams
Dr. Andrew Snelling
Dr. Sean Kruger
Dr. Benjamin Aaron
Dr. Ross Anderson
Eddy Miller, Ph.D.
David A. DeWitt, Ph.D. Astrologist
Danny R. Falkner, Ph.D. Biologist
Russell D. Humphreys, Ph.D.Physicist
John D. Morris, Ph.D.

As for Christianity, The foundation was set in the Garden of eden with the fall of Adam. It was Adam's Fall that brought death into the world. It was Adam's fall that brought about God's condemnation of all mankind, (read original sin) which necessitated a savior to atone for the sins of all Mankind. The doctrine of original sin is based on the fact that man has fallen, that a perfect creation was perverted by man's fall and death cam about as a result of the fall.

If evolution is right...you can take the bible and everything it teaches and throw it out the window because it's foundation is a lie.


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Neither evolution nor darwinism has an answer as to where life came from. Whether it be life on earth or life anywhere else. That still leaves open the opportunity for Eden.

Even if Evolution is eventually proven, it still doesn't eliminate the possibility.

"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me

Once again...If Death preceded the fall the doctrine of original sin is a lie...and Christianity as a hollow religion as a result. Darwinianism is a religion of Secularists the same as MMGW is a religion of the Green Weenies

Check out the scientists and other sources such as Answers in Geneses, the Creation Research Institute, and others...If you look through theirs data with an open mind, you'll see the enormous holes in Darwinian natural selection and evolution as well as come to an understanding that it's not necessary to twist and justify scripture to fit Evolution!

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I think we should have a whole diary about this instead of just trying to cram some debate about Creation/Evolution and its relation to MMGW into the comments here. Unfortunately, to present the Biblical Creation framework and how all the evidence (the same evidence Evolutionists have) compliments it takes more space than is available here, and we risk irritating those who want to keep this strictly political.

For those who are interested in why intelligent and reasonable people (including a whole host of scientists) are saying that all the available evidence support the Biblical Creation model, you can find all the answers you ever wanted right here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

For those who are already sure they have all the answers, I suppose they won't bother...

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Not the place, etc, etc, but Ace is exactly right. Creationist and Evolutionist have the same evidence (fossils, rock layers, etc), but a different set of starting assumptions. In the biblical framework, all the pieces of evidence fall into place beautifully. I highly recommend the Answers in Genesis website for people who are interested Creation Science.

Frankly, the whole "Climate Change" hype is based on a model of history that assumes millions of years and cycles of climate change... ice age, tropical planet, ice age, etc. The Biblical Creation model has one ice age (due super warm oceans) after the world-wide flood. An understanding of the Biblical Creation model exposes MMGW for what it is: Bunk.

AGW/MMGW is not bunk because of one Christian community's interpretation of the Bible. AGW/MMGW is bunk because the science does not support it. The evidence for many ice ages is absolute, jsut like the evidence for an ancient Earth, plate tectonics, an ancient Universe, etc. AGW/MMGW is bunk because it confuses models for data. And Christians who confuse their interpretation of the Bible as the equivalent of the Word of God are making similar mistakes. Humans like apocalyptic stories. Like all other apocalyptic stories told throughout history, they do not happen. They are teaching stories, just like the two or three creation stories in Genesis. My Faith in Christ is not dependent on fundamental literalists who confuse the teaching of God as told by inspired people thousands of years ago with science.

And for those who think that if you do believe in the science of evolution, you cannot be a Christian, I can only offer my pity and hope that you are not judged as you judge.

I am active in the American Scientific Affiliation group that meets in my city.
http://www.asa3.org/
We meet every other month to study exactly these questions.

I'm not asking you to take what I say as fact...I'm willing to be proven wrong which should be a basic tenet of science because if we become too dogmatic...we'll not acknowledge truth when we see it.

If you are a scientist I encourage you to look at the sources I have given you up thread with an open mind. If you decide to stick with evolutionary theory at least you will be doing so based on all the evidence and not just accepting one side on faith while ignoring the evidence that supports the other

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You've said there is a problem with MMGW because it's not observable, repeatable etc...how can you say Evolutionary theory is absolute truth when nothing in the theory is observed...

I can look at a body buried at the side of a mountain...A conclusion could be made that it was buried by another person or that it was buried in an land slide. Same evidence different interpretation.

A better example is...let's say you come to a faucet that is dripping at .5 gallons an hour and there is a gallon bucket that is full to the top. You know the water hasn't overflowed the bucket so you could assume that the faucet has dripped for around 2 hours. What you don't know and can't quantify is whether someone might not have turned the water on full blast and set it at it's current drip rate. you also have no way to know how much water was in the bucket when the dripping started if any. If there was no water in the bucket and someone put a half gallon in it before it started dripping at it's current rate that would mean it's only dripped for 1 hour not two...

So, what else can be said except that the assumptions of those scientists who are interpreting the only evidence available to them without being able to prove what's happened before they found the evidence are unprovable and that those who use it to allegedly prove evolution are doing so starting from a false premise just like MMGW proponents are now doing!

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the body in the hill- good forensics willshow the difference between landslid and burial.
With the bucket, if the dripping is actually a dripping that occurs worldwide, a lot of information can be inferred about how the dripping behaves.
If you think God is turning on and off the laws of physics to get things done, then there is no need for any science, wince it is just arbitrary.

I don't deny the validity of the scientific method as observed. Granted my landslide analogy is a simplification of what the evidence would be for the sake of discussion as is the dripping water...

Your answer to the dripping water is brilliant by the way and I knew the problems with both my analogies when I posted them. My answer to my water analogy however has an answer where the evidence for and against Evolution is conserved and that would be the global flood as described in the Bible. I would urge you to read the Genesis Flood by Dr John Whitcomb and I highly recommend Dr's Walter Browns theories on how the flood could explain the fossil record. His theory encompasses Geology explaining the fossil record as well as how the changes made by the shifting of the earth's tectonic plates could have occurred rapidly.

My main point tying this back to the original discussion however is that as with the theories of evolution as well as those put forth by MMGW alarmists have infinite problems based not on what the scientists know...but what they don't and can never know!

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BTW....I swore I wouldn't participate in the evolution discussion any more and you dragged me back into it...Thanks a lot.

LOL

:>)

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If the bible is inspired then how can it contain lies hunter? you are violating one of the first truths of science by saying that which says that two opposite possibilities can not be true...one is true and one is not...

Either Genesis is is God inspired or it is not. Either it is true or it is not. If Genesis is not true...either God did not inspire it or God is a liar.

I'm not in a position to question your faith nor do I wish to do so...I'm only saying the same problems exist between MMGW scientists and Darwinian evolutionists...both theories are based on unprovable assumptions and must be taken on faith since neither can be duplicated so they can be observed.

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"People gave ear to an upstart astrologer who strove to show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the sun and the moon. Whoever wishes to appear clever must devise some new system, which of all systems is of course the very best. This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

and explaining things to nomadic pre-literate traders is different from engineering diagrams or statistical analysis, and using stories to illustrate wisdom is not lying.
Why do you seek to limit God?
Look how much explanation and dissembling and inference is required just to get around the biblical statement of 'pi'.
Genesis is true for what it is: A story to teach that humans are seperated from God by their own original sin, and that this has been around as long as people have been around. And it is clearly cobbled together from differing and conflicting sources.
It is not a book of geology. It is not a book of biology. It is not a book of cosmology. It is not a book of chemistry or physics. It is a book written from ancient stories that tells where God and man meet, and how he calls His chosen to Him, despite their many many imperfections and sins.
It was written by sinful imperfect humans inspired by God.
And none of this has to do with the failures of AGW as science.
BTW, here is a prediction made by evolutionary science that is completely true:
There are evolutionary traits in our genes that stretch from planaria to h. sapiens. These also correspond to the fossil record.
Read up on Evolutionary Development:
http://seanbcarroll.com/books/Endless_Forms_Most_Beautiful/
Now for me, the fact that the tools and switches you will read about exist, are a wonderful proof of the intervention of God.
There is no good reason at all for a bunch of chemicals to assemble, reassemble and evolve as life does.
Minerals do not do it. Cosmic sized structures do not do it.
Mountains form and then predictabily erode away.
Mineral crystals form and then stay locked away forever.
Life and life alone does what it does.
I see God's hand in that.

I have always looked upon the first part of Genesis as a series of allegories to help man understand the nature of God.

The earliest people in the book resemble myths and archetypes with long lists of begats by their name.

Only when you get to Abraham do you see what seems to be a real living, breathing man, with dreams and desires.

From Abraham on to some of the major prophets the Bible reads more like history, with the exception of the book of Job, which is clearly a parable.

Frankly, attempts to explain everything by a literal creation of six days bores me. There is nothing logical about it, and although God does want us to live by faith, I see no reason to believe that He does not also want us to use our understanding.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

either you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God or you do not.

You've acknowledges that Scientists can be wrong because they have accepted something to be true and stop looking at credible alternatives and/or can skew their research to achieve ideological ends by saying you think they have done so with MMGW. Isn't it possible that the same has been done with Darwinian evolution?

Again, I've given you plenty of material to research. If you want to be objective and study it, and make an informed decision based on knowledge of the subject, I am begging you to do so...if you want to take one side and ignore the evidence supporting the other side that's fine too...but don't say you are a scientist because the last time I checked, scientists "Say" they make informed hypotheses based on ALL the evidence.

I'm done with this discussion from here on because I wrote this to discuss MMGW, and I thank you for agreeing with me on that. The validity of what the Bible says and the role of God in writing it, and the validity of Creation Science isn't appropriate here because we don't have room to discuss three subjects that encompass so much information at once!

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

It is very easy to believe that God showed the authors of the Bible what happened. Maybe even took them there in person to experience it. But that they were then unable to explain to their readers exactly what they saw.

Just as Science is an imperfect attempt by man to understand God's universe. So could the Bible easily be a collection of imperfect attempts by man to record the perfect visions given to them by God.

After all, Jesus didn't write the Bible.

"Always be honest with yourself. Even if you are honest with no one else."
--me

is theopneustos - while the common translation goes "inspired by God", it is literally rendered "God-breathed".

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J