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Indiana Immigration Reform
By averagejoeblogs Posted in Archived — Comments (19) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
What impact might the new Indiana Immigration Law (currently in the State Legislature) have on illegal immigration in Indiana? Read on...
From The Indianapolis Star:
Immigrations Laws Send Hispanics Elsewhere:
| Thousands of illegal immigrants have fled the two states that have enacted tough new immigration laws similar to the one before the Indiana General Assembly.
Since passing their laws, Oklahoma and Arizona have seen declines in school enrollments, a scarcity of construction workers and the sudden emptying of rental homes and apartments. The same, some people say, would happen in Indiana, though advocates of stronger immigration laws say they would welcome the change. The impact in Tulsa, Okla., was startling to Judy Feary, a principal at an elementary school where 59 percent of 1,000 students are Hispanic. On opening day last fall, 180 Hispanic students did not show up for class at Kendall-Whittier Elementary. ... "There were lots of rumors going around that they would be arrested and their children taken away. So we did some community outreach, and we had to talk them into returning to school." Eventually, about 100 children were coaxed back, many of them U.S. citizens whose parents are not here legally. But across the Tulsa school district, the enrollment of Hispanic students is down by 257, an unexpected reversal of rising enrollments in recent years. Whether that's good news or bad news depends on your view of illegal immigration. Supporters of the bill by state Sen. Mike Delph, R-Carmel, say jobs left open by fleeing immigrants will be filled by unemployed Americans, and fewer tax dollars will be spent on social services for illegal residents. Critics see a looming gap in the state's economy as workers take their local spending dollars elsewhere. Delph maintains that his bill, which would crack down on employers that hire illegal immigrants, does not target a specific group of people, but the fact that some who are here illegally might scatter is "part of the intention of the bill." "You can't have it both ways," Delph said. "If you illegally entered the country, there are consequences. Just because the federal government has chosen not to enforce the law or an individual has skated by for years does not mean that judgment day won't be coming." Statistics from both sides Foes of Delph's bill are armed with some of their own numbers. In recent weeks, testimony offered at the Statehouse has suggested that the Hispanic buying power in Indiana is nearly $5 billion a year and that even those who are not legal residents help contribute an estimated $200 million in taxes to local and state governments. M. Esther Barber, executive director of the Mexican Civic Association of Indiana, told legislators in a written report that Indiana's economy would suffer a 30 percent hit from lost wages, lost business and less taxes paid if Delph's bill passes. Evidence of similar trends can be seen in Oklahoma and Arizona. In Tulsa, where an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Hispanics have left, restaurants are cutting back hours or closing, and local corporate leaders say many businesses are dealing with a 50 percent drop in business. "I know that many of them have bolted to Texas, California or Minnesota," said Feary. "This kind of reminds me of some of the prejudice we experienced back when we integrated the schools." Oklahoma was home to about 250,000 Hispanic residents out of a population of 3.57 million in 2006, according to the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey. Arizona has 1.8 million Hispanics out of a population of 6.1 million. By comparison, Indiana has nearly 300,000 Hispanics out of 6.3 million people. "It seems to be working pretty well," he told The Associated Press. "What was Oklahoma's problem is now some other state's problem." The immigration crackdowns in Oklahoma and Arizona, according to the Houston Chronicle, have resulted in a large number of Hispanics -- up to 100 people a day -- moving to Texas, home to an estimated 1.6 million illegal immigrants in 2006. Mike Means, executive director of the Oklahoma State Home Builders Association, said home builders have noticed a 5 percent to 10 percent drop in the number of available workers in Oklahoma City. "We are worried," Means said. "In general, our masonry crews, roofers, bricklayers and concrete . . . it's almost 100 percent Hispanic workers. And a lot of guys are legal. It's been kind of like a dark cloud on things. "To me, it's a profiling issue. You can't tell by looking at them if they are legal or not. And this doesn't fix the immigration problem. It just pushes it off to another state." That is perfectly fine with Dan Howard, a former Oklahoma state trooper who founded OutragedPatriots.com, a Web site that tracks illegal immigration news and views from around the nation, including Indiana. "The only people that are whining about the shortage of labor now are those who profited off the backs" of illegal immigrants, Howard said. "And now they are no longer able to do so." As to opponents who say the law has resulted in racial profiling and has racist undertones, Howard vigorously responds: "We are not racists. We are not bigots. We have an invasion going on in this country. It may not be armed, but we have the largest invasion on U.S. soil in U.S. history going on right now." |
So what do I think about it? I have had to deal with one confirmed illegal immigrant who was hired by my predecessor. He falsified his Social Security card by creating a Social Security Number that didn't exist -- the sequence of his number was completely invalid. He feels that what he did was not wrong because he was not stealing someone else's identity. I am currently dealing with another likely illegal immigrant at work, hired by my predecessor's predecessor. This person claims to be from Texas and has a Social Security Number issued in Illinois. We have already confirmed that the name, birth date, and Social Security number he provided to us do not match. He, I suspect, has stolen someone else's identity. I'll know the outcome of his status some time in the next three weeks. And then I have one other suspected illegal immigrant working for me, also hired by my predecessor. Though I have no solid means for my suspicion -- his documentation appears to be in order, Indiana driver license, valid Social Security number -- all of the things that the INS requires an employer to check. But there's just something about the appearance of his Social Security card and the fact that the number was issued in Delaware that makes me suspicious. I have some sources checking on it unofficially for me.
I deal with hiring difficulties on a daily basis. It is hard to find good people willing to give me an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. It's hard to find applicants who actually want to work. But you know what? As a patriotic American, I would much rather run short-staffed and struggle with staffing my store than staff it with people who are in this country illegal, stealing benefits from my fellow countrymen.
And if Indiana's Immigration reform bill is passed, then the penalties for having an illegal alien in my employ are much too severe to make it worth the risk. As a patriotic American, without some serious Immigration reform in this country, I might just find it easier not to even hire someone who appears to be of Hispanic origin. That would at least eliminate some of the chance of hiring an illegal.
We do need much stronger immigration reform.
by NightTwister
But the burden on employers should not be so great and vague that they would have to resort to refusing to hire certain ethnicities to reduce their risk.
The government will need to provide specific steps for employee verification so an employer that reasonably follows them will avoid prosecution.
Federal courts vs State Immigration laws
by Aurelian
Before these laws can prove too successful, the Sup Court will probably strike them down.
This pessimism has a solid foundation in light of how Anthony Kennedy -- author of the 'sweet mystery of life' doctrine of Constitutional interpretation -- likely holds the ultimate power.
And really, on this issue I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of the otherwise-excellent justices go wrong.
I really mangled that topic line
by Aurelian
It should have read, 'Because I have learned to expect the worst from the Sup Court'.
For being Americans, some of us are not real educated!
by thisisridiculous
This article really upset me. When I read comments like "stealing benefits from my fellow countrymen." First of all, let me say, I know many hispanics in Indianapolis and many are family. Out of the 9 family members I have all 9 pay taxes. I am not sure what you are talking about when you say stealing your benefits. They are paying into your benefits, that they will never see. They are illegal citizens, without green cards or permission to be here, but they pay their taxes every year through the IRS, just like me and you. They pay for what are called ITIN numbers and with this they file their taxes every year, with the hope that one day, someone will give them a chance to live a good life here in the United States to support thier families. (You never hear about anybody educating the American people about ITIN numbers)O and another thing, what are we going to do with all the American children that are left without mothers & fathers. Uneducated single mothers will go on Welfare because daddy can't take care of the babies. You say, Not my problem. Ahhhh, but it is. There are quite a few, American/Hispanic Children here. I know many women that are married to illegal hispanics. When you marry an illegal hispanic in Indiana, you give up your rights as an american to get Welfare and Food Stamps. Take their husbands away and I am sure there will be more than a few applying for benefits.
As for all the minimum wage jobs that all the illegal "aliens" are stealing, please, we are a spoiled nation and no one wants to work at "Taco Bell" or "McDonalds" for the rest of thier life. The only people that do are the "Hispanics." I think it is pretty easy to judge these people, while we drive around in our new cars, buy are diamonds and have top notch medical care. It is not so easy over there, to obtain the items that we have. You want to go to the hospital for sickness or a car accident or injury to your child, pay up front, that is the policy there. If you don't have the money , you don't get any help. No Medicaid or Medicare and if your job offers insurance(not likely at all)you can't afford to pay for it or your family does not eat. I have been to the poorest areas in Mexico, seen women with their babies out in the cold begging for money, seen children in the street (shoeless) asking for food. You tell me, If your family was poor and you thought you could help them by coming to the United States to help, What would you do? What would God say to all the judging that happens here in United States? As this country moves forward I am getting less proud to be an American every day.
If the rules are transparent and clear, and if the state has no authority to license businesses or restrict exports and imports, there will be no opportunities to pay bribes in those areas. Mart Laar
You're not proud of America?
by mbecker908
Then feel free to move to Mexico. Then you can see how repressive immigration law works.
And, good riddance. Take your "hard working" family members with you. They'll do just great in Mexico. Yall can wire money back to you family left behind in the states.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Which part of ...
by jsteele
... ILLEGAL alien do you not understand. It is illegal for them to be here, end-of-story, full-stop. Regardless of whether they pay taxes, they are simply not entitled to hold jobs, they are illegal. ILLEGAL. Why is this such a difficult concept?
I have nothing against immigrants, over the years immigrants have brought great vitality and energy to America, adding to our wealth of creativity, inventiveness and just plain hard work. LEGAL immigrants.
Amnesty for the illegals already here will simply lead to yet more illegals --- we did that last time and that's how we got the problem we have today.
And if you are less proud every day please call 1-800-MICHELLE, there is probably room in their club.
PS
They are illegal citizens, without green cards or permission to be here,
They are most assuredly NOT illegal "citizens."
John
----------
Why would God invent something like whiskey? To keep the Irish from ruling the world of course
Fix
by rjd27
Mexico. Coming to America won't solve the problems in Mexico. It just transfers those problems here.
All this talk about a "better life." It's all bs. If you want a better life, then work hard to reform the Mexican government and its institutions.
I'm proud of America, and one of the reasons why, is because that's what this country did. The people worked hard and each generation improved on the last one.
Yes, but ....
by Repair Man Jack
many of us are taught at an early stage of elementary education that paragraphs are useful. Implicit in that descriptive adjective is the sugestion that you use them.
"I believe we must adjourn this meeting to some other place." - The last recorded words of Adam Smith.
Mr. Intelligent
by thisisridiculous
You tell me how Mexican law works. You know everything right. And damn skippy, If I have to Move to mexico for my family to be together, I will. This is my family illegal or not. Aliens or not. They say to treat people the way that you want to be treated. Watch out for the karma to come back at you and bite you in the butt. Sometimes I ask myself, Do these people have nothing more to do? All the issues that we have in this world? Hunger and disease? We only think about ourselves. So you continue to live in your bubble with your eyes closed and I will continue to have mine wide open. Understanding that I am grateful for what my country has given me but sad that we only see what we want to and not the real deal. Do you think these people want to be here? Would you want to be in a country where you were not born, can't speak their language and have no rights, because your a "alien" and treated like one.
They leave behind their families not knowing when they will see then again. They don't like it, This is a very racist and judgemental place to be and they don't want to be here at all!!!! THEY HAVE TO! Something you know nothing about!!!
We are much kinder to illegals from Mexico
by JSobieski
Than the laws of Mexico are to illegals from places like El Salvador.
Racism has nothing to do with it.
I follow the law. I expect others to follow the law.
Folks, LET US KNOW when we have to do cleanup.
by Moe Lane
Use the Contact link to the Directors.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Hadrian Had a Point
by Repair Man Jack
I'll stipulate up front that I'm to the left of most Red-Staters on immigration. I married an immigrant, and feel she's a much better American than a lot of the people who attempt to shut down legal immigration pathways because the immigrants compete favorably with American labor.
That being stipulated, our border with Mexico is a security nightmare waiting to visit vast death and destruction on our nation. We know that there are people in the world who want us dead for no logical or decently moral reason. We know these people are seeking nuclear weapons to accomplish this very explicit purpose. We know that vast stretches of the Mexican and Canadian borders are totally unsecured.
This is no fault of either the Mexicans or Canadians and is of no consequence to their national leadership. However, given the desire of others to come into our country and to kill our people almost indiscriminately, we should be significantly upgrading our border security.
I sincerely believe two things. One of our next 9-11's will be thermonuclear and the weapon will come through our very porous land borders. This has got to be stopped. Hadrian had a point!
"I believe we must adjourn this meeting to some other place." - The last recorded words of Adam Smith.
My last thought
by thisisridiculous
Obviously, this is not the place to try to get common compassion, or ask for any moral ethics. So let me explain it in my way (with no paragraghs). This is what I know from living, working and loving the common illegal alien.
If you take their right to get plates for their cars, There is always an American waiting around the corner to pay (a couple hundred dollars)and they will get the plates for them. You take away their licenses, They are still going to drive. It will just be illegally. Worst case scenario, they get pulled over, the police take their cars and the American that helped the Hispanic pay to register their plates, will go get the car out for them for $50.00. They will be driving again the next day. You take the few ways they have to work away. Well,they might not be at that job on paper, but they will be at that job. If not at that one, another one.You also take away the taxes that they do pay, because they will all get paid in cash. As for the Border, People pass daily and come to the United States. I don't have a answer for that one. I do know that there are millions of illegal aliens in the United States right now, that do not plan on going anywhere. Until we figure out what to do with the ones that are here, you will never solve the problem of them crossing. Everyone has the quick answer, fix the Mexican goverment. O Yeah ok, We will get to that tommorow. I hear "I'm proud of America, and one of the reasons why, is because that's what this country did. The people worked hard and each generation improved on the last one." I agree, we sure did, with the help of immigrants. Things are made so simple, They are illegal citizens, without green cards or permission to be here. Again, come on, Don't you think that if any Jose, Carlos or Juan could go pay for the application wait the 10-15 year waiting period for it to get approved and then come, that they wouldn't. I have already explained their reasons for being here. We make everything so simple. We all have rights, Why because we are Americans. This is why I want my family here, to get the same opportunities as me. They are not less of a person, because they were not born here, nor do they deserve the treatment that they recieve from you or anyone else. They come here to survive, and people will do all kinds of things to maintain the survival of themselves and their families. Like it or not, they are here. They have been here for many years and they will continue to be here.
As much as I have enjoyed this conversation, I really must go.
I would love to thank all of you for all of your uneducated ideas. I will continue to have a fantastic life in the United States with all of the aliens I know and I hope you do too! :)
How about me and my family survives in your house
by JSobieski
we are just people after all, and your house is just a place with stuff.
I hope everyone has a fantastic life---just respect my rights when you do it.
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