Redstate

"Help the R get elected? Yes. But that doesn't mean we should withhold criticism or comment."

It's not helping. In fact, it's giving cover to conservative RINOs who are looking for an excuse to feel-high-and-mighty and vote against McCain.

Instead of focusing on the conservative parts of McCain's campaign and reaching out to win votes, the focus on the (from your perspective) negative things is turning off voters.

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1. It makes him appear moderate---it solidifies that characterization by being attacked from the right

2. It may encourage state parties to limit themselves in the way that McCain is limiting himself.

3. We need to win state/local races.

I don't remember McCain holding back his criticism of conservatices, Bush, or anyone else. He "supported the R" but felt that criticism must not negatively impact R changes of victory? So why does that calculus change now?

Does my criticism cause harm, but McCain's criticism somehow not cause harm?

putting a flag of an upside down elephant on his website. Could you provide a link?

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and I am not participating in the upside down McCain banners either.

McCain has sold Republicans down the river before when he thought that was the best course of action. The comments about Katrina just the other day are a great example of taking the easy way out, going for the cheap shot, instead of explaining the proper role of the federal government.

Same thing for comments about tax cuts for the rich, or Big Pharma, etc.

Why can't I be a maverick Republican? I am supporting McCain. I will undoubtedly persuade some fence sitters to vote for McCain. I will almost certainly give money to his campaign when he is attacked by the MSM and democrats.

I am one maverick supporting another.

My two main gripes are:

1) The stickers are insulting to the GOP nominee and the give cover to conservatives to be anti-McCain (like Haley here).

2) The amount of time spent by a lot of posters whining about McCain seems to far outweigh the efforts to help get conservative Rs elected. The SEN and the House look pretty bad this year but people prefer to spend two hours coming up with creative ways to insult the GOP nominee rather than putting that time and creativity into cutting a viral ad or finding a promising up-and-comer (like Jindal was) and writing about them and fundraising.

If neither of those gripes apply to you, please disregard my prior comments.

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...is to be expected and even encouraged; better here than somewhere that undecided voters can notice.

The tricky parts are:

1), to not let it cut into the time that could be spent on efforts that would help local/State conservative candidates and groups;

and

2), not to let venting turn into brooding.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

That's why I didn't chime in on the first one or two diaries that were venting. But hearing that people are putting insulting bumper stickers on their cars now seemed to single to me that the "venting" had boiled over to action that hurts, not helps, the GOP nominee in November.

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The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

You keep saying insulting... IMO your being a lil hyper-sensative. Maybe you should read more of what GC has been writing about PCness. I'm just saying, if upside down bumper stickers and tag icons insult you, the skin must be mighty thin.

Quite a few things, actually.

Like the time McCain's staff approached the Dems about him switching parties.

Or the time that his lap dog friend Lindsey Graham basically called me and those who think like I do on illegal immigration racists.

Or the times McCain got high-60's to low-70's ratings by the ACU in the past few years, which should tell a person a lot more than a lifetime rating when your career goes back to 1982.

Listen. I'm going to vote for McCain, OK? I don't like it, but I'll do it. Heck, I might even find a penny or two to throw the way of McCain. I might even put a bumper sticker on my truck.

But me, and those here who feel like me, need release. We have to go out in public every day and paint a smile on a face that is extraordinarily upset. Let us have our moments. Those of us who will go out and vote for McCain in November (and who will probably be angry about it for the next four years as we curse out the new president every time he turns his back on us) deserve at least that.

In politics, you have your word and your friends; go back on either and you're dead. (Rule #11 of the public policy process)

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

and have made the point myself. I will sugest, however, that there might be a better way to make the point than to use something that's associated with the flaq and patriotism... Also if this is done publicly on your care or whatever, there should be some way of indicating that you're actually going to vote for McCain otherwise, it increases the morale of the other side and decreases are morale. Finally I'm not sure I agree with having these things as sig lines, because it can be rather divisive to those who like McCain to see the screaming of those who don't like him. Its okay for awhile, but I would suggest not making it permanent.

Remember how many people said "I can't vote for McCain, I just can't" after he became the presumptive nominee? 99% of those folks (myself included) have all cooled off and admitted that such a reaction makes no sense.

This is a site for Republicans. To the non-Republican, I will defend McCain heartily. However, "within the family" I will criticize as I see fit.

In that regard, I am less maverick than McCain, a person who did not keep his criticisms "in-house"

that there might be a better way to make the point than to use something that's associated with the flaq and patriotism

I appreciate your firm grasp on what I would say is obvious, but apparently several people here don't get it.

"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas

(lame) Also if this is done publicly on your care or whatever, there should be some way of indicating that you're actually going to vote for McCain otherwise, it increases the morale of the other side and decreases are morale. Finally I'm not sure I agree with having these things as sig lines, because it can be rather divisive to those who like McCain to see the screaming of those who don't like him. Its okay for awhile, but I would suggest not making it permanent. (lame/)

I wish HTML had tags like that...

"40 million American households with guns are generally happier
than those people in households that don't have guns."

by those of us who would question McCain? or is that just your impression?

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

That's the most recent example. But Rush had a similar negative effect when after McCain wrapped things up, he continued focusing on the negative without talking about the positive parts of McCain's record. It gives a lot of conservatives a misrepresentation of his overall record. Rush could do a segment about how McCain was wary of the Souter appointment b/c he didn't like stealth nominees... or he could do one on McCain-Feingold. Somehow the latter comes up repeatedly and the former never.

This relentless focus on the negative helps create the illusion that McCain is anti-conservative and not an ally. I think that can hurt turnout or create more Haleys who are detached from reality and McCain's record.

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Help the R get elected? Yes. But that doesn't mean we should withhold criticism or comment.

And you shouldn't withhold criticism or comment. To follow someone blindly is ridiculous. Hell, I might share your criticism of McCain's Embryonic Stem Cell research and the closing of Gitmo. However no one is perfect.

The "Conservative Movement" is not in danger, the White House is in danger. If you want to hand it over to Obama or Clinton, keep up this rhetoric.

BigGator5.net

Since my signature line was specifically brought up, I'll mention it. "Fred Thompson, 2008" will remain in my sig through the official end of the Primaries, for two reasons.

First, because he was my candidate of choice; he may have withdrawn his candidacy, but I have not withdrawn my opinion about his fitness for the job.

Second, and mostly, because it's easier than writing out all the values and principles I support. When I say I support Fred Thompson, I'm saying I support what he stands for.

If some posters think I'm stuck in the past, or some kind of idiot... I guess I can live with that. I didn't care what you thought of me before I started posting here... no reason to start now.

Fred Thompson, 2008

n/t

i>"40 million American households with guns are generally happier
than those people in households that don't have guns."

The politically moderates, especially the independents, wait until the last minute to choose. In the end, the decision of the undecideds usually tip the scale.

n/t

i>"40 million American households with guns are generally happier
than those people in households that don't have guns."

might keep me awake. Goin' out on a job hunt! Hopefully I won't be interviewed by some 25 yr old kid any time soon! Thanks for the offer! Where do you hail from??

(If I lose a lot of weight do I become a mini-ME????)


omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

n/t

Where is, my friend, your unhelpful and divisive upside down banner?

As you can see by who the recommended this entry, that I am not the only one who thinks this way. The point of this blog was, yes, conservatives are the base of the Republican Party. You guys make up a good part of the party and we are the minority.

However we need you as much as you need us. You cannot keep asking us to vote for conservatives, then fringe disgust at voting for McCain and think we will stay silent. It won't work, as it smacks of hypocrisy in what the 2004 Republican Convention was all about: Republican Party unity above all else.

I wonder... During that same convention were you cheering on Bloomberg, McCain, Giuliani, Schwarzenegger, and many other moderates while cursing them under your breath? Are you secretly hoping McCain loses, so that maybe a by-the-book conservative will take the lead in 2012? Please go back to your corner of the web to sulk, because you are doing RedState no amount of good by being jerk to Moderate Republicans here.

BigGator5.net

MODERATE: Limited as to the degree in which a quality, principle, or faculty appears; as, an infusion of moderate strength; a man of moderate abilities.

You claim to be a moderate, and that is fine. By definition that means that you are “limited as to the degree in principle.” Conservatives tend to have principles that we stand by, principles that may vary well keep some of us from supporting the likes of John McCain. That is our decision.

You come here to a conservative Republican forum and tell us that we need you, and that we are the base and that you want the guidance of the base. Yet you say that one of our much respected contributors treats moderates like a jerk, and that Dave should return to his corner and sulk. I think maybe you should STFU and start acting like the moderate that you claim to be!

Yes you have recommends, not many, less than the man you show little respect and tell to go away. Please take note that we principled conservative Republicans are not squishy; we are not limited in our quality, principle, or faculty; we do not have moderate abilities. Sit back and do what moderates do, feel uneasy in your moderation while others lead. Moderates do not build parties, or nations.

It's amusing being told the reason I don't like the prospect of voting for John McCain is because he's a moderate, when other McCain supporters keep insisting how conservative he is; especially since my first choice amongst those that were running was Rudy, who was attacked viciously by many here for being a social squish (never mind his record in cleaning up Times Square, etc).

If those here that support John McCain would talk to those of us that are reluctant to support him like we were adults instead of attacking us with lame accusations, we might be able to come to an understanding. None of us really want to see Obama or Hillary in the White House, after all.

---
Finrod's First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.

I do think there is definitely some anti-moderate sentiment. It's not among the moderators or most of the front-page contributors, but it certainly exists among some of the more vocal commenters.

Calling people out in diaries is definitely not cool...I agree here.

Upside down banner...definitely counter productive.

I'm just taking a wild guess as to who you were referring to here. I recommended this one because (while there is some sense of frustration in the piece) I think the over all message that conservatives need moderates just as much as moderates need conservatives was my take from it.

18-11. Team record for most wins in April. Tied for first place. Cubs in town this weekend. Life is good. [Interestingly enough the Cards are in the bottom half on HRs. They seem to have brought back Whitey-ball.]

are anti-moderate. I took it as he was saying the site as a whole. I'll re-read.
I would have left it all alone had he not insulted the Fred-heads and called us "ilk".
Adam's Redhot at the top is why I think we all need to cool our jets and focus on the task at hand. Keeping the socialists out of the WH, and not shoving people out in the rain.

Gotta love those Cards! Gaw-I miss baseball. This continent lives and dies for soccer. Bah! It's for sissies.

Keep 'em in the win column for me, 'kay? With any luck I can catch a game or two when I am in the states in August.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

in particular cases, but in general,

Revelation 3:16 applies to self described moderates and actual ones, i.e.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

NT.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

NT.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

themselves very conservative voted for Huck or McCain. I would say that's pretty good evidence nobody agrees on the meaning anymore.

was split.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

rights and We the People's right of self government at the hands of the usurpation of same by 5 lawyers

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

when it comes to socons contradicting the principles of small govt. As it stands now, abortion is legal nationally and there has been a movement to redfine marriage at both the state and national levels. There is nothing contrary to the principles of small govt in wanting the state to protect the lifes of all if its citizens equally (and the feds to force if the state refuses) or to want traditional institutions to be left unchanged. Whether or not you believe that abortion is murder is beside the point. Socon goals remain within the realm of federalism. Only after those issues have been resolved propperly will socons become a potential problem for federalism if they try to force other moral laws, but even then there is nothing anti-federalism about forcing some standards of morality as long as you do it at the most appropraite level (usually the lowest level of govt).

"Hey, I call 'em like I see 'em. I'm a whale biologist."