Discussion of TSA’s recent actions has focused on procedures. But procedures do not implement themselves. Someone has to be comfortable with looking at naked pictures of strangers. Someone has to be comfortable searching breasts and testicles for likely nonexistent explosives. For every woman savaged and every child fondled, there was a person in a blue shirt willing to participate in the process. That is disturbing at best.
Front line TSA staff is caught between a rock and a hard place; between their public bosses and their bureaucratic overlords. They seem unaware of response options they have other than to develop a siege mentality. I remember a sign I saw in a DMV office complaining about the public’s bad attitude. The DMV concluded the public’s attitude in their office was unrelated to their DMV experience. The public was wrong to be offended and the DMV was free to behave as it pleased.
But being unaware of options doesn’t mean there aren’t any. They could quit. They could say, “I will not sexually assault and humiliate another human being in the name of security merely because I am told the measures are necessary.” Yet I know of no TSA employee, not one, who has opted to quit rather than obey orders.
TSA knows the pain, humiliation, frustration and anger they produce. They ignore it. Management says it’s “necessary” and staff implements with gusto. Nobody quits. Nobody objects. They all just hunker down. Any outrage they feel is over how they are treated and perceived.
It reminds me of The Milgram Experiment at Yale in the 1960s. Psychologist Stanley Milgram “… measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience.” They were ordered to shock a person for giving wrong test answers. The voltage increased with each wrong answer. No actual shock was delivered. An actor in another room screamed and pounded on walls, feigning distress. Nevertheless, a huge percentage of participants delivered the maximum voltage.
Wikipedia quotes Milgram on the implications of the study,
I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects’ strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects’ ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.
Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority. (emphasis added)
Milgram’s actual experiment, and variations on it, have been repeated since then including, it is reported, as recently as April of 2010. In every case, the results were the same.
To quote Milgram, “…the extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any length on the command of authority … most urgently demand[s] explanation.” Patriots talk of Liberty. Tyrants talk of security. Until we explain why Americans, whose nation was conceived in Liberty, agree to implement tyranny because they are told to; until we understand why Americans, whose Liberty comes from almighty God, surrender that Liberty without a fight because they are told to, Rights bought with Patriot swords will be stolen by tyrant pens. Unless we again become the Americans our Declaration and Constitution were written for we are doomed.
Not that this specific issue will break us, although it might. Who knows the exact location of the point of no return? But this is movement away from Liberty and into the counterfeit embrace of currently benevolent tyrants. When we have a choice between Liberty and tyranny, and we choose tyranny, our chains become more comfortable and more easily worn. Eventually tyrants need do nothing because we will have enslaved ourselves. Somewhere the Founders are weeping.
Neil Stevens
Caleb Howe
Daniel Horowitz
Lori Ziganto
"The Milgram Experiment ..."
eastbaylarry (Diary) Monday, November 29th at 1:16PM EDT (link)I remember reading about this way back when and found it interesting, but unimportant to my daily life.
Now I’m thinking this is the most depressing conclusion about human nature ever discovered. Seeing it in action brings it all home.
2+2=4 dammit!
Milgram found 65% of people would do horrible things ...
Blue_Collar_Muse (Diary) Monday, November 29th at 1:48PM EDT (link)if ordered to. That leaves 35% of us who would not.
Thank God for groups like Oath Keepers where people have thought this through and have pre-determined they have the internal resources to refuse to obey immoral and unconstitutional orders.
My take is that those folks who refused have some external authority to which they have submitted themselves; the Constitution or the God who inspired that document, for example.
Without commenting on the notion of the correctness of either of these examples or those others might offer, the common variable is that both serve as objective, external authorities by which adherents can be influenced. Further, both of these hold, as their highest goal, the liberty of the individual.
Absent the objective authority, or given an external authority which has as its goal the control of the individual, the 65% find themselves ill equipped or eagerly in league with tyrannical behavior of any sort, including the most heinous behaviors imaginable.
Thus our job is to continue to engage the 65% with the power and promise of individual liberty with a view to growing our minority. Considering the benefit our 35% has brought to the world, imagine what increasing that figure to 40 or 45% would bring. What if we scored 60% or more?
Don’t be depressed. Be encouraged and motivated!
Blue Collar Muse
Smaller Government! Lower Taxes! Stronger Defense! More Liberty! Complete Transparency!
personalize the process
tex41lb Thursday, December 2nd at 1:39PM EDT (link)and understand not only will a person impose pain under the color of authority, that person will endure pain from the same authority.
Soften the issue to removal of rights and find the reason so many accept the loss of a right is a response to the authority perceived behind the removal ala Milgram.
You thus get groped at the airport, denied the food you want at McDonalds, put on a helmet, stop going to the airport to watch planes and people from within the terminal, (a once favorite activity of mine) and on and on experience small painful losses offerring no resistance to the focus of authority.
Insight allows us to resist and resist we must in any way dictated by the power directed against us. Peacefully, in civil resistance, for now.
Where is the outrage?
Flagstaff (Diary) Thursday, December 2nd at 10:32PM EDT (link)The process is patently unconstitutional in the first place. Government agents are conducting warrantless searches, with no probable cause of any kind. Are they unionized? If so, why hasn’t at least ONE of the TSA agents gone to his union to protest?
Why is the ACLU silent? The New York Times?
It’s time to stop flying until the administration wakes up.
Am I wrong, or have not the courts previously found that roadblock checkpoints for drunk drivers on New Year’s Eve are not permissible?
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
I think a 1990 Michigan case found that random DUI checkpoints can be constitutional. The standard is an intentionally
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, December 2nd at 10:59PM EDT (link)vague “reasonable”, meaning considering all the circumstances, and so the likely ruling of the court on particular types of searches is not clear in this area given the issues of public safety and the choice to fly. But I lean strongly on the side that thinks these intrusive pat downs are over the line.
I think the TSA is in the process of unionizing but not yet so.
I think the ACLU has filed a few cases.
more later
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“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
FWIW
Lammo (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 12:28AM EDT (link)Out here in WA DUI checkpoints are unlawful under our State constitution. City of Seattle v. Mesiani, 110 Wash. 2d 454 (1988). I especially like this part:
“This court takes judicial notice “there is no denying the fact that there is a very strong societal interest in dealing effectively with the problem of drunken driving.” 4 W. LaFave, Search and Seizure § 10.8(d), at 71. Nevertheless, the City has offered little assistance in balancing interests because it attempts to weigh the national carnage of drunk driving year round against the minimal intrusion on Seattle drivers for a few seconds each. “The easiest and most common fallacy in ‘balancing’ is to place on one side the entire, cumulated ‘interest’ represented by the state’s policy and compare it with one individual’s interest in freedom from the specific intrusion on the other side …” State v. Tourtillott, 289 Or. 845, 881, 618 P.2d 423 (1980) (Linde, J., dissenting). A fairer balance would weigh the actual expected alleviation of the social ill against the cumulated interests invaded. Moreover, the City has failed to demonstrate the need for sobriety checkpoints or that less intrusive alternatives could not achieve most of the constitutionally permissible benefits sought, such as the addition of more officers to its special enforcement unit. (page 459)
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
yes, state law can expand civil liberties. Federal law only sets
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 2:42AM EDT (link)minimum parameters below which states can’t fall. Love the court’s analysis.
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“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
The SCOTUS will say LEOs can do "x"
Lammo (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 3:22AM EDT (link)and I have to keep telling my cops “Not so fast. Our Court of Final Error probably won’t let you do that.” And, they do it all the time. I’ve talked with prosecutors from the east coast and they are amazed that we have our own body of state constitutional law.
Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (John Corapi, The Black Sheep Dog)
Interesting. SC's constitution has had an explicit right to privacy for
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 3:35AM EDT (link)over 100 years!
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“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Lawsuits have been filed.
Menlo (Diary) Thursday, December 2nd at 11:28PM EDT (link)Hot Air covered one of them. Others have since followed.
Several lower court rulings have dealt with airport security before, one of which was written by then Judge Alito. Current procedures would fail the “test” he established for airport screenings then.
I would not count on anything though with the current court system. Best to insist the next Presidential candidate promise to stop it.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
Don't you think that public pressure will force changes well before 2012? I do.
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Thursday, December 2nd at 11:34PM EDT (link)The first could well be the importation of masking machines like some in Europe that are not revealing of body part details.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Not with 80 percent support for the measures. nt
Menlo (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 12:07AM EDT (link)“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
Just curious, Menlo, but do you have a reference for that percentage?
acat (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 12:36AM EDT (link)I find it very hard to believe that 80% of the public approve of the pornoscanners or the random gropings….
Metal detectors and chemical sniffers I think people were pretty okay with. Those make an amount of sense at least, and there are metal detectors at a number of places. (schools, some county buildings…)
I wonder .. how does that 80% stack up to the percentage who fly rarely or not at all?
Mew
——

Caveat Suffragator
That is among those who fly
Menlo (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 12:46AM EDT (link)I looked at multiple different polls from here as well as a series of national and local polls here and this poll.
The results appear consistent.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
Those polls are not worth much
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 1:04AM EDT (link)considering only one asked had the been subjected to either type search and the answer was 75% and 85% no. If you have not gone though it, can not see where your opinion on if you would mind it is really valid.
The rest of the polls ask a range of questions with many being quite generic concerning the scans. They also do not ask if the person being questioned has even been though one of the scans.
They also do not ask do you fly often, has your man pouch been felt up from the pat down, do you fly more than once a year so that your opinion actually counts, have you stood there as a male TSA agent “pats” down your wife, have you stood by and seen a TSA agent touch your young son or daughter in a way that would be considered sexual assault anywhere else, etc.
If I am correct, I believe you have been defending these search assaults since the start. Look hard enough and you will always find “proof’ for your argument. But lets now play stupid shall we, we all know what you are trying to pass off on us is absolute nonsense. You know it, we know it. Those polls are about as scientific and reliable as Al Gore and no one is buying your claims or other peoples claims that 80% of the populous is OK with these searches. We have been in the airports and seen the reactions, we see the massive anger in response to these searches across the country, and when the left feels the same way, we know it is not anywhere near 80%.
First line correction
PowerToThePeople (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 1:06AM EDT (link)should be only one asked had they been subjected …….
It appears that despite the polls, TSA is already considering new machines and also turned off machines over the holiday
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 2:23AM EDT (link)I can’t believe these public molestations will stand for long.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Huh?
Menlo (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 2:20AM EDT (link)I’m certainly not defending them!!! I was appalled back in 2002 when I saw such a thing existed! I have no intention of touching one of those things. Then again, I stopped flying in the late 90′s when the airlines’ business models changed completely and became unbearable.
The SurveyUSA polls give crosstabs. Some of them are for specific cities, and one was nationwide. It did indicate how often people flied, and it probed into some very specific questions. Rasmussen also mentioned flight frequency. I doubt you’ll get a good sample of those who had been screened since it is not done to most passengers.
Anyway, I’m only arguing it is not going to change unless a future President decides to do so. What is and what should be are two different things.
You don’t understand the Obama administration. They do not cave to pressure to change their ways.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
more under the radar indications that TSA will be reined in sooner than 2013 - LINK
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 4:38PM EDT (link)http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/2/state-city-lawmakers-seek-tsa-options/
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Agreed GC
Scope (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 6:57PM EDT (link)I personally think the Governors, and state legislatures are going to play a tremendous role over the next two years. I’m feeling that the Senate will not be on our side, and, I’m not yet sure of the House. Cantor, with his lose lips, and, unability to think or speak on his feet, has done some real damage lately. Please don’t allow him anywhere near a microphone.
We must think alike, Scope.
Flagstaff (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 9:37PM EDT (link)Cantor was an example I thought of using when writing about “articulating” our principles and policies. A bad example, that is.
I think he gets way too much deference about everything.
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
agreed Scope, but I really expect a drastic change in TSA policy on their own initiative very soon based on
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 11:02PM EDT (link)the vast array of court, media and other attacks on these grotesque policies and procedures. It could come soon after an ugly incident or two either in privacy violations that go viral or a man taking offense at the pat down of his girlfriend in the next line!
One way of the other, TSA will change and soon. Cockstradamus called for his home in The Azores.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson
Considering the ridiculous arguments against "The El Al Way,"
Flagstaff (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 11:38PM EDT (link)there is at least some chance of improvement. The same people who will spend that billion dollars on the porn machines claim that we can’t afford to train agents to do the same things that El Al does every day, just because we have more flights. Ridiculous because the cost per passenger should be approximately the same.
And, The El Al Way would be constitutional, because only passengers who give some cause would be chosen for follow-up questioning. In fact, they’d just be doing what border customs agents have been doing for years.
It hasn’t come to a head yet because only about 1% of us fly each year, and only 7% of those fly more than four time per year. Eventually enough corporate executives (and/or lawyers) will be inconvenienced and aggrieved by the TSA Grope that pressure to modify security will be effective.
It’s all a plot directed by MSNBCDEF’nG anyway. Why else did they recently change their slogan to “Bend Over!”?
Buffett Rule #1: “Tax rates don’t matter if you don’t pay your taxes”
– Unnamed tax adviser to Warren Buffett, Leavenworth, KS, 2011
Buffett Rule #2: “A parrot in every pot and two Volts in every garage”– Jimmy Buffett, at a seance in Margaritaville, 1977
I wouldn't count on it.
Menlo (Diary) Saturday, December 4th at 12:58AM EDT (link)I think Cockstradamus is counting his chickens before they hatch.
“The ultimate touchstone of constitutionality is the Constitution itself and not what we have said about it.” -Felix Frankfurter
polls also change and squeaky wheels get grease - the public groping will
Mike gamecock DeVine (Diary) Friday, December 3rd at 4:41PM EDT (link)not stand, nor will the porno stag shots….eventually
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com and Charlotte Observer columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson