Surprise, Surprise: Franken Catches All the ‘Breaks’


With Democrats Calling the Shots in MN, Every Major Decision Went Against Coleman

The Wall Street Journal:

Mr. Franken started the recount 215 votes behind Senator Coleman, but he now claims a 225-vote lead and suddenly the man who was insisting on “counting every vote” wants to shut the process down. He’s getting help from Mr. Ritchie and his four fellow Canvassing Board members, who have delivered inconsistent rulings and are ignoring glaring problems with the tallies.

How have Democratic officeholders helped Franken so far? Read the whole thing, but here’s a quick summary:

  • Local elections officials have forgotten to label some ballots as ‘duplicates,’ and more than 25 precincts now register more ballots counted than voters who appeared at the polls. This has yielded Franken an additional 80 to 100 votes.
  • The Canvassing Board has been inconsistent. Franken charged that one Minneapolis precinct had ‘lost’ 133 votes that were recorded on election night. Though there’s no proof to the charge, the Board endorsed Franken’s view, giving him a gain of 46 votes. Meanwhile, a Ramsey County precinct ended up with 177 ‘extra votes’ — more than recorded on Election Night. Here the Board decided to go with the extra ballots, rather than the Election Night total, even though the county is now showing more ballots than voters in the precinct. This gave Franken a gain of 37 more votes, which means he’s benefited both ways from the board’s inconsistency.
  • With regard to absentee ballots, Franken complained that some were wrongly rejected. Counties were directed to review their absentees and create a list of those mistakenly rejected. Many Franken-leaning counties did so, and their 1.350 additional ballots were counted over the weekend. Many Coleman-leaning counties have not yet done so however, and the State Supreme Court hasn’t yet ruled on Coleman’s request to standardize the review statewide. Nevertheless, the Franken-leaning counties had their ballots counted this weekend, giving Franken 176 votes more.
  • Both campaigns have also suggested that the Democratic Secretary of State made mistakes in counting votes challenged by either campaign. The Canvassing Board appears to have applied inconsistent standards in how it decided some of those challenges — in ways that have favored Franken.

This afternoon the State Supreme Court rejected Coleman’s request to block certification of the count and order the counting of the 650 absentee ballots from ‘his’ counties. Notably, the Court has not ruled on the question of whether these ballots should have been counted; it’s merely refraining from inserting itself into the ongoing dispute, in favor of allowing a lower court to review the matter at greater length. However, that won’t stop the Democrat-leaning Canvassing Board from certifying Franken’s ‘victory,’ and making it harder for a court to overturn down the road.

And that’s just another way of saying the Democrats have their thumbs on the scale for Franken, as they have during the whole count.

Via Jennifer Rubin

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92 Comments Leave a comment

One other thing

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 12:53PM EST (link)

The courts are about as in the bag for the Democrats as Richie is… in fact they account for 4 of the 5 votes on the canvassing board. So I don’t see much hope in these court challenges, either.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

At least

I would have thrown a million Arabs on the fire to defeat Bush. Monday, January 5th at 10:38PM EST (link)

when OUR man won Florida 2000, there wasn’t a suspicious parade of authorities totally in the tank for him.

*yawn* Blam. -nt

Leon H. Wolf Monday, January 5th at 10:41PM EST (link)

————
They’re *illusions*, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money. Or candy!

 
 
 

I pray that Coleman wins in the end.

Rod_Patrick Monday, January 5th at 12:55PM EST (link)

As for Franken, I have nothing to say except bull… hmm.. never mind.

 

off-topic but important

warkarma Monday, January 5th at 1:06PM EST (link)

For any site admin,

Redstate is serving up FakeAlert. This is a pretty annoying trojan. You might want to scan your server for vulnerabilities. I’ve trapped it 3 times thus far, all from your front page.

Regards…

It's not our server, it's an ad server

Neil Stevens Monday, January 5th at 1:57PM EST (link)

And I don’t have access to the third party ad servers.

Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis

You *do* have control over ad servers

rocketeer Monday, January 5th at 2:57PM EST (link)

I don’t buy that you can’t control this. You don’t accept porno ads, or from DK, and so you can control what you serve up. There is something to adjust here, and it needs adjusting.


Never buy a dog and bark for yourself: ‘Slippery’ Jim DiGriz

Actually no, I don't

Neil Stevens Monday, January 5th at 3:20PM EST (link)

I’m just a volunteer. I have no control over Eagle and its advertising deals, nor do I have access to those resources.

Eagle is able to turn on or off certain ads, yes, but I personally have no access to any of that.

Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis

 
 
 
 

Oxymoron party

Kyle-MI Monday, January 5th at 1:39PM EST (link)

With the Washington governor recount fiasco a while back, and now this abomination, the terms democrat and Democrat almost have opposite meaning.

I'm just wondering

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 1:57PM EST (link)

When they will expand the card check principle to the election of Democrats. That way they can send some “helpful” people to your house if you “forget” to sign on to the Democrat. It would be much simpler than having to wait until they lose, then go back and figure out how to manufacture enough votes.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 
 

what's with Minnesota?

Janice Cantore Monday, January 5th at 1:44PM EST (link)

Cheating aside, what the heck is with the people of this state? How could any sane, thinking person vote for Al Franken?? This race should NEVER have been this close.

Janice Cantore

The same way people voted for Obama

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 1:53PM EST (link)

Most of the people who voted for Obama would vote for any fool with a D after his name. They could have put Obama’s cat on the ballot and he would have probably received more votes than Franken.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 

From the home of Jesse "The Body" Ventura comes Al "The Sphincter" Franken. nt

Vladimir Monday, January 5th at 2:15PM EST (link)

There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is generally adopted. - Arthur Schopenhauer

 

Any politician with "D" on his/her name is palatable to libs/dems. nt

Rod_Patrick Monday, January 5th at 2:25PM EST (link)

If I ever run for partisan office I think . . .

Lammo Tuesday, January 6th at 12:34AM EST (link)

I’ll change my middle initial to “D”. That way I can appear on the ballot as “Last Name, First Name D” and probably pick up a whole mess of votes.

ACORN: Association of Criminals Obama Represented in the Nineties. (jupitersuite)

Don’t be so open minded that your brains fall out. (Fr. John Corapi, SOLT)

Crime never takes a holiday. (Dennis J. O’Shea, R.I.P.)

Unlawful is against the law. Illegal is a sick bird. (Ooold joke)

Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read. (Groucho Marx)

If you smell like a "D" then go on and try it.

Rod_Patrick Tuesday, January 6th at 6:49AM EST (link)

If not… PLEASE DON’T. And I’m not sure if you can buy a D perfume at any store. Some say that the D smell is “inborn”.

Dems and libs know the smell of a real “lib/dem”. And they are ready to “kill” if they find out that a “D” is really an “R” after all.

D Test No. 1: Can you do “corruption” with a smile in your face?

Blago, Kirkpatrick, Rezco, Richardson, etc. have passed this basic requirement and look where it has gotten them into…. FAME and GLORY.

 
 
 

Can You Say Acorn?

davo119 Tuesday, January 6th at 6:55AM EST (link)

Acorn registered 43,000 of the 100,000 new voters. I wonder if they all got ACORN tee shirts?

Never give in! Never! Never! Never!

 
 

Minnefranken disease

izoneguy Monday, January 5th at 1:49PM EST (link)

Brains frozen, fingers cannot function, must pay more taxes, must give all to democrats, uggghhhh……

“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson

 

Well now you know what the Dems felt like after FL 2000

mondol Monday, January 5th at 2:15PM EST (link)

Do I detect a hint of whining in these posts? I especially liked the comment about the courts being “in the bag”, remember the Republican courts ruling on FL/2000?

Of course the other “answer” is that the people of MN are a bunch of fools because they voted for Franken, somehow I thought that voting for a candidate is part of the definition of democracy. Fools or not this is how our country is supposed to work (unless you want to go back to pre-17th amendment and let the state legislatures decide- meaning a guarantee of 46 Democratic Senators and 28 Republicans with the rest from split or non-partisan state houses).

You mean the Florida Supreme Court?

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 2:19PM EST (link)

You know, the guys who were inventing law and changing the rules after the fact, as many times as necessary to get a win for Gore? Are those the courts you are talking about? Yea, the Minnesota courts are pretty similar. As are the Washington courts. Seems like there might be a pattern emerging here.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 

The Republican Court???

Attack Mode Monday, January 5th at 2:20PM EST (link)

Seriously, I hope you are not referring to the SCOTUS from 2000 as being Republican.

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

I don't mean SCOTUS

mondol Tuesday, January 6th at 2:35PM EST (link)

Aaron:

I meant the title of the post to imply I meant the Florida Supreme Court.

 
 

That meme is getting old and tired.

NightTwister Monday, January 5th at 2:21PM EST (link)

And no, I’m not going to explain it to you. You wouldn’t have the capacity to understand anyway.

That meme is getting old and tired?

mondol Monday, January 5th at 2:46PM EST (link)

Explain what? I know what a meme is, which one do you refer too?

What's the matter mondol...first two reponses confused you so you moved on to the third...

Attack Mode Monday, January 5th at 2:52PM EST (link)

“The 2000 election was stolen” meme has been debunked, if you don’t accept that you are either:

1. Absolutely ignorant

2. Willfully ignorant

3. A petty troll

4. All of the above

Take your pick….I am going for number 4.

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

Aaron - this is what I meant

mondol Tuesday, January 6th at 2:38PM EST (link)

Aaron:

You method of listing my possible faults while ignoring the question doesn’t seem to further discussion.

I seriously had no clue as to what “meme” you were referring to in your post. If you take the time to take your readers into account when posting then more people will understand what you are trying to say.

If you read the other comments I have made here you will see that I don’t necessarily believe that the 2000 election was stolen.

Regards,

mondol

mondol...I was pretty clear...

Attack Mode Tuesday, January 6th at 2:44PM EST (link)

If you take the time to take your readers into account when posting then more people will understand what you are trying to say.

Don’t blame your reading comprehension problems on me.

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

 
 
 
 
 

As for "how it's supposed to work"

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 2:21PM EST (link)

Yea the guy who loses by over 700 votes on election night is supposed to win a few months later after enough votes magically appear to move the totals 1000 votes in his direction… I’m pretty sure that is how it is supposed to work.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

Heh. Moral of the story: don't let elections

icbm Monday, January 5th at 2:32PM EST (link)

be close, especially not when, as John Fund has demonstrated, voter fraud frequently favors Democrats.

John Fund demonstrated what?

mondol Monday, January 5th at 3:05PM EST (link)

I don’t recall John Fund coming up with more that 2 examples of voter fraud. Maybe you are thinking of voter registration issues? I would love to see an actual article that gives evidence demonstrating voter fraud.

See John Fund's book, "Stealing Elections"

icbm Monday, January 5th at 3:21PM EST (link)

http://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Elections-Revised-Updated-Threatens/dp/1594032246/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231187223&sr=8-1

It’s a quick read - or browse - and although he does show that voter fraud favors Democrats overall, he also points out examples of Republican voter fraud as well. It’s not a black and white picture. But yes, overall, according to Fund, fraud favors Democrats.

(I liked the St. Louis chapter the most.)

I don’t have any articles for you. I’ve read only his book.

Thanks for the reference

mondol Tuesday, January 6th at 2:43PM EST (link)

ICBM:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I haven’t read the book, only read about the book. I am perfectly willing to believe that more voter fraud has been committed by Dems than Repubs, on the other hand I don’t believe that there have been very many cases of actual voter fraud in the last 20 years or so, at least in elections of import. I do believe there has been a variety of voter registration “misbehavior” fortunately this doesn’t usually affect the outcomes of elections. The differentiation may be subtle but it is incredibly important.

 
 
 

I gotta agree with you on that one, icbm

bs Monday, January 5th at 3:31PM EST (link)

There was/is no excuse for that election in MN to be so bloody close. It just proves the profound lack of judgement by the MN electorate. Oh well, you get what you pay for. It’ll be entertaining to watch Franken make Minnesotans look like the stupendous fools that they showed themselves to be by voting for that moron.

Decorum is fo’ suckas - unless it’s one of the good guys

Kowalski briefly...

bs Monday, January 5th at 3:33PM EST (link)

There should be a big market for the “I didn’t vote for him” bumper stickers up there from our GOP friends.

Decorum is fo’ suckas - unless it’s one of the good guys

 

what? you're agreeing with

icbm Monday, January 5th at 4:05PM EST (link)

a religious bigot?

heh

Broken clocks, etc. :-)

bs Monday, January 5th at 4:08PM EST (link)

But seriously - I almost never hold grudges against my neighbors here. Almost. :-)

Decorum is fo’ suckas - unless it’s one of the good guys

 
 
 
 

How it is supposed to work.

mondol Monday, January 5th at 2:49PM EST (link)

So, whatever the vote count is ,on election night, you take as the “democratic” method. I suppose you wouldn’t have wanted suspect counties in TX and IL recounted in 1960, had you been around then, because that wouldn’t have been democratic?

Why? So the Democrats could increase their lead?

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 3:05PM EST (link)

Do the Democrats ever lose votes in a recount? Not that I have seen. Any time an election gets overturned on the recount it is in favor of the Democrats. There is a pretty clear pattern that has already been established here. I guess whenever the Republican doesn’t win by at least a 5 or 6 digit margin, they should just concede on election night.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

Democrats always win recounts?

mondol Monday, January 5th at 3:13PM EST (link)

What about Sen. John Warner (i.e a Republican) in 1978, there are other examples but I restrict myself to Senatorial races.

Wow you only have to go back 3 decades

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 3:20PM EST (link)

And he won that election by 5,000 votes. You saying the Democrat finished ahead and he found over 5,000 new votes on the recount?

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 
 
 

That's exactly what Richard Nixon did in 1960

Finrod Monday, January 5th at 3:06PM EST (link)

He asked for there not to be a recount in IL and TX in 1960 because he didn’t want to divide the nation. So will you now admit that that made Richard Nixon a better man than Al Gore?

Finrod’s First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.

“Obama: ancient Kenyan word for Kennedy” — Robin Williams

Either that or he just knew the first rule of recounts

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 3:07PM EST (link)

And that is that the Democrats have an even easier time manufacturing votes during a recount than they do on election day. And that’s saying something.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

In Nixon's book, "Six Crises," he explains that

icbm Monday, January 5th at 3:24PM EST (link)

he believed that he could not have won even after fraudulent votes were thrown out (although Mrs. Nixon did not share this view).

Perhaps he was only being magnanimous and privately he believed that he’d been cheated. I’d be sincerely interested in hearing any evidence that Nixon himself thought that the 1960 victory was properly his.

 
 

Nixon vs. Gore

mondol Monday, January 5th at 3:17PM EST (link)

Well I hear what you are saying, but I believe it had more to do with the fact that it would have taken a miracle to show and change all the cooked totals in those states. Somehow the first President to resign because he personally ordered the burglary of his opponent’s headquarters seems like an odd example to hold up as a “better man” than Al Gore.

that is a lie, mondol

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 3:19PM EST (link)

Nixon did not personally order the burglary of Watergate. If that is what you think, that really explains your other candy-land claims.

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

Hinz Rule EPU....nt

Attack Mode Monday, January 5th at 3:20PM EST (link)

“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!

Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.

yeah I think so

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 3:23PM EST (link)

although there’s never anything wrong with a mid-afternoon snack.

Of sardines.

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

 
 

Mr. Unum

mondol Monday, January 5th at 4:19PM EST (link)

OK, you’re right we know that because Nixon said “I had no prior knowledge of the Watergate break-in,”. Subsequently he also said “I neither took part in nor knew about any of the subsequent cover-up activities; I neither authorized nor encouraged subordinates to engage in illegal or improper campaign tactics. That was and is the simple truth.” So that must also be the truth. Maybe he didn’t ask them to break in, maybe he just wanted to get his hands on some files and didn’t give a whit about how they did it.

More to the point what candy-land claims are you referring to? You seem to be the one with the ad hominem claims.

Well, you spelled ad hominem correctly

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 4:48PM EST (link)

The Watergate Hearings uncovered *zero* evidence that Nixon had prior knowledge, yet you present it as if his personal statement was his right up there with OJ’s stated quest to ‘find the real killer’.

You claim, without qualification, that he “personally ordered” the burglary. Nice….. Put that on the shelf with your other whoppers (this would be the candyland I spoke of):

  • The ‘Republican’ courts in FL/2000 - -the ones that kept ruling for Gore’s absurd cases.
  • Because you have been made personally aware of only 2 examples of Dem voter fraud named by John Fund, those are the only 2 in the universe.
  • Holding up Warner’s ability to hold onto his 4,721-vote margin in 1978 as somehow the counter-claim to Franken’s and Gregoire’s naked thefts of elections with vote margins less than 1,000.

Savvy?

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

Funny

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 4:57PM EST (link)

How the only examples he has been able to come up with of Republicans “stealing elections” are actually cases where the Democrats tried to do just that after a Republican victory, and then couldn’t manufacture enough votes to pull it off.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 

Mr. Unum

mondol Tuesday, January 6th at 3:10PM EST (link)

Bullet point 1- It was a Republican appointed court, you seem to believe that they kept ruling in favor of the Democrats. Not quite sure where that comes from, maybe because they finally kicked up to the US Supreme Court?

Bullet point 2 - I only ask that you provide me with other examples, I have looked and haven’t found any. Quite likely there are other examples, in the interest of clarity and argument could you provide some?

Bullet point 3 - Warner did hold onto his margin, I think it was something like 150 votes that changed. So I guess you are right the 2 cases are quite different.

Would you have been happy with no recount had Franken won it by 300 or so votes? From your extremely partisan posts I believe not. Basically it appears that you think having an R after your name guarantees probity and having a D after your name guarantees a lack of morals. I like to look at facts not labels.

 
 

mondol, if you are interested in learning

icbm Monday, January 5th at 5:05PM EST (link)

about the various examples of voter fraud that John Fund has written about, just Google “John Fund” and “voter fraud.” You will see many articles he has written, and you will also see criticism of his work.

This is one of his juicier articles, I’d say:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110005278

WSJ Opinion piece

mondol Tuesday, January 6th at 2:56PM EST (link)

ICBM:

Thanks for the ref on voter fraud, I read the article and find one direct quote relating to voter fraud - “At least 935 of the felons, or some 40%, had apparently cast a ballot in a recent election. Within the context of the article it appears to be a conclusion drawn by the WSJ editorial writer. It may be true, though, if it is, I wonder why none of the very motivated federal prosecutors did not follow through.

In ways the article confirms my conclusion that there is very, very little voter fraud. People on Red State seem to confuse voter registration fraud with voter fraud. Convolving the two leads to the conclusion that Republicans are losing elections due to fraud, I just don’t think this is the case.

 
 
 
 
 

Finrod - nobody, but NOBODY is a better man than ManBearPig

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 3:31PM EST (link)

Except maybe Hillary.

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

 
 
 
 

you misspelled your name

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 2:38PM EST (link)

But it’s pretty close….

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

 

Not really, mondol. We're not conspiracy theorists...

Moe Lane Tuesday, January 6th at 4:24PM EST (link)

…who need to believe that the 2000 election was stolen.

Shoo.

And, I remind people: when the crazies show up, TELL US.

Moe Lane Tuesday, January 6th at 4:26PM EST (link)

It’s not like this is my job. :)

Here's your reminder:

profg Wednesday, January 7th at 4:57PM EST (link)

that you're a Paultard?

Streiff Wednesday, January 7th at 7:53PM EST (link)

we didn’t need a reminder of that. We knew it already.

“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”

 

Erick suffers fools. I don't.

Neil Stevens Wednesday, January 7th at 11:12PM EST (link)

You are a drag on the site, and you’re still detached from reality and not a person I want in our movement if you haven’t apologized yet for your comment that you rightfully got banned for.

Contrary to your blathering, I routinely ban for the kind of lie that you told.

Now, lest anyone get me wrong, I’m glad we have Erick as a backstop for banning. Having his kind heart do reviews of the bans is good for us.

But that doesn’t mean I can’t mock you.

Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis

 
 
 
 
 

No dice

civil_truth Monday, January 5th at 2:30PM EST (link)

Your 2000 analogy only strengthens the MN Coleman’s case - as you recall, the D’s fought against counting all ballots, they just wanted recounts in the counties that were Democratic strongholds. Only after dragging things out to the last minute did they then change their tune, and then it was too close the electoral college vote. 2) The Rep secretary of state applied consistent standards, unlike MN. 3) independent recounters from the media after the fact all agree that Bush had a narrow victory based on the ballots cast.

Read the Journal article. Personally I believe the seat should be declared vacant and another election held as the results have lost legitimacy due to too much imprecision: regardless of how the courts rule, half the state will believe they were cheated.

I also know, based on the Washington governor outcome this year after the 2004 fiasco, that 6 years from now, the vast majority of voters will not give a s**t as to whether this election was fair, which heightens the need to get this one right.

Why am I having so much trouble with "reply to this"

civil_truth Monday, January 5th at 2:31PM EST (link)

This was meant as a reply to “mondol”.

 

The Dems fought against counting all ballots?

mondol Monday, January 5th at 2:53PM EST (link)

So the Democrats fought against counting all the ballots in FL/2000 while the Republicans fought the valiant fight to count all the ballots, but somehow lost that fight because of the Republican appointed courts. Not quite how I remember it. On the other hand it may well be true that Bush had more votes than Gore, it looked that way to me.

My point is that a lot of the posts here seem to be taking a rather subjective view of reality (i.e. cheating when Dems win and the god of democracy being just when Repubs win). In fact I don’t believe that 300 votes out of 3,000,000 is convincing in any way.

that would be YES, smart guy

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 3:14PM EST (link)

Of course they fought against counting all the ballots. They got a bunch of military votes rejected on technicalities. IIRC, there was a whole country (in Red country) that they wanted rejected because of some technical glitch on the part of local electoral officials.

So, was there some way in which the Florida GOP committed fraud, ‘discovered’ boxes full of ballots all for Bush, rigged the recount, rigged the machines, kept blacks from voting?

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

Mr. Unum

mondol Monday, January 5th at 3:23PM EST (link)

Here is my point, things happen in elections. You seem to be completely and totally convinced that a democratic machine “rigged the machines” and/or “‘discovered’ boxes full of ballots”; while I believe that it is almost impossible to count 3,000,000 ballots with a 0.001% accuracy. In fact sometimes Republicans win recounts (Bush, Warner et al) and sometimes Democrats win recounts (Franken {probably}, Wilder, Gregoire et al.).

So you admit Florida 2000 and Minnesota 2008 are unlike then (nt)

Neil Stevens Monday, January 5th at 3:30PM EST (link)

Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis

Comparison of Fl/2000 and MN/2008

mondol Monday, January 5th at 4:08PM EST (link)

Of course I agree that they are different, what I do think is that Democrats had a reasonable basis for concern about the recount (where the margin was much bigger but the number of unclear votes was much much bigger) in FL/2000 and that the Republicans have reasonable concerns about the MN/2008 recount. Having said that I repeat, now you know how the Democrats felt back in 2000. Is it possible to agree with me that both Democrats and Republicans are not infallible and that an involved public is a requisite for good democracy?

Mr. Unum has included his tagline “To cheat is Democrat”, so I will not ask him the same question. Clearly he is more interested in divisiveness than in democracy.

thank you for noticing

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 4:13PM EST (link)

and for the record, that’s E Pluribus Maximus Bartlett Unum XIV, Esq to you.

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

I'm predicting you just gave speciallist his new sig line. -nt-

Brian Simpson Monday, January 5th at 11:27PM EST (link)

The Minority Report | Twitter | Facebook | Digg | Politics4All | Missouri Matters | Rebuild the Party
Important principles may and must be inflexible. ~ Abraham Lincoln

As soon as I get tired of the stinking Badges...

$peciallist Monday, January 5th at 11:34PM EST (link)

it’s on the list…EPMBUX,E….Sweet!!

 
 
 

Wrong

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 4:17PM EST (link)

Democrats don’t have a right to “feel bad” because they tried to steal an election (FL in 2000) and failed to pull it off. The only difference in 2000 is that the Democrat desperate attempt at thievery was eventually stopped before they could successfully generate enough votes to overturn the election, where there was nobody to do that in WA or MN.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 
 
 

A few problems with that. . .

RedWhite_and_Truth Tuesday, January 6th at 10:13AM EST (link)

First of all, Bush won the FIRST TIME, no need to win only in a recount. Secondly, Demoncats cheat and steal all the time. (Missouri, Chicago, etc.) I will say, however, that Repubs up to now have mostly stepped aside and let it happen. Ashcroft should have never conceded back in 2000.
And, John Fund is not the only one who has reported on voter fraud and stealing elections. Look up John R. Lott and search for his voter fraud articles.

Coersion, after all, merely captures man. Freedom captivates him.
– Ronald Reagan

“Anyone that wants the presidency so much that he’ll spend two years organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office.”
—David Broder

 
 
 

It's simple,

Wayne Monday, January 5th at 3:27PM EST (link)

really. We just need to take over the local election boards, then put enough ballots marked for the R candidate in the trunks of our cars, so that if there is a recount, we trot out the ballots that are pre-marked and have them counted. That’s what the dems did in Mn. Then we make sure the election canvassers count the pre-marked ballots twice. It is enough to make anyone with any sense gag. The bigger problem is that Franken got more than 4 votes. The dems must be giddy with happiness, Acorn floods the roles, days before an election, insuring that the Cowboys offensive line votes all over the country, foreign students all register at a house and vote, people all over the world contribute to the Obamunist’s campaign through pre-paid Visa and Master Card cards, and they win, showing the world that “democracy works”.

“Hell, these are Marines. Men like them held Guadalcanal, and took Iwo Jima, Baghdad ain’t s–t”. Maj. Gen. John F. Kelly, USMC, Deputy CG, First MEF

 
 
 

These Are The Rules Of The Game

DavidSage Monday, January 5th at 2:50PM EST (link)

If the race is close, count on the Democrats winning. They ALWAYS win when it’s a small margin, even if they’re behind.

There’s too many cracks in the system, and “finding” a few thousand votes is always possible with the Democrat machine. The Republicans just lay down and surrender, hoping there will be a backlash from public opinion. It never happens.

Democrats will keep doing this until Republicans fight fire with fire. Why would they ever stop? It keeps working to their benefit, and the public just assumes both sides are guilty of it. Our side needs to push the envelope with “get out the vote” and “absentee drive” type activities. Eventually, both sides would agree to common sense reforms.

I hope Coleman is happy he voted for that $700 billion Wall Street bailout that’s going to places like the UAW. My guess is he would have won this race by a much larger margin had he voted against it.

Note to Republican politicians: If 70% of the public opposes something, you’re up for reelection in a tough year, and it violates basic conservative principles, don’t go along with it!

I can’t believe how stupid Coleman’s political instincts were. It now looks like it’s going to be Senator Al Franken because of it.

Thank you Minnesota.

"If the race is close, count on the Democrats winning."

mondol Monday, January 5th at 3:02PM EST (link)

It was pretty damn close in FL/2000 but somehow the Dems didn’t pull that one out. The Dems did pull Washington State out but what about Pawlenty vs. Hatch, seems like a good place to start if you want to really look at data.

I guess it is hard to be a Republican, what with all the wall flowers and people unwilling to take a stand, the Democrats (big tough guys that they are) running roughshod over the poor downtrodden Republicans. In other words make arguments that make sense, not ones based on your “sense” of injustice.

I do agree that Republicans need to work on voter registration and getting out the vote, good places to work on democracy.

the Dems are not big and tough

E Pluribus Unum Monday, January 5th at 3:07PM EST (link)

they are just relentless cheaters.

Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.

 

Corrected for you

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 3:10PM EST (link)

I do agree that Republicans need to work on voter registration and getting out the vote, good places to work on voter fraud.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

Voter fraud

mondol Monday, January 5th at 3:58PM EST (link)

My understanding of voter fraud is when votes actually are counted fraudulently. I believe you are referring to people registering fraudulently. As I have stated elsewhere I would love to see real, documented, evidence of recent voter fraud.

Google JFK, President.

Tbone Monday, January 5th at 4:32PM EST (link)

NT

Envisioning when all that is Left is the Right.

 

Mondol

itrytobenice Tuesday, January 6th at 11:43AM EST (link)

If you are willing to come to Newton County Missouri, you can see it for yourself.

Several elections ago, someone voted using my sister’s name. She was in Boston at the time, so I know it wasn’t her. That was prior to any voter ID requirements. We alerted the election judges, but there was nothing they could do about it.

When names get on the rolls, it’s easy as pie to vote it. Even now, with voter id requirements, I could make a neat little pay stub up on my word processor, use it for ID and vote any name I wanted to.

We should require government issued voter ID for every vote cast, and no one should be allowed to register anywhere except the court house or sheriff’s office.

And if I were in charge, I would completely purge every voter roll in the country and no one would be allowed to vote who couldn’t show valid ID and re-register.

The problem with America is stupidity. I’m not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don’t we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

itrytobenice

mondol Tuesday, January 6th at 3:31PM EST (link)

Sorry to hear that a relative of yours had her vote stolen. Having it stolen in Newton County makes me wonder whether it was stolen for a Republican or a Democrat seeing as Newton County voted 70% McCain to 29% Obama.

I do worry that your proposal of only allowing registration at court houses and sheriff’s offices would unfairly disenfranchise service men and women in addition to rural residents and the elderly- not exactly the Democratic base, most of the time.

While the 5,000 or so vote margin, for McCain, was close it would have taken an awful lot of careful work for voter fraud to have made a difference.

 
 
 
 
 
 

I hope the Dems enjoy Sen. Franken

Illinicon Monday, January 5th at 3:17PM EST (link)

because I will after every racist joke, tax avoidence, and mocking of tradtional American values leads to controversy after controversy with him. Everytime this moron shoots his mouth off it will probably be worth thousands of dollars in contributions to Republican candidates. I also wish Reid all the best trying to explain to all the racebaiters how seating Franken and not Burris isnt racist when there is more proof that Franken got his seat by fraud than Burris did, espiecially after Reid told Blago he did not want any black guys in the Senate club.

Jindal/Thompson ‘12

Bringing clear Conservative change to America.

Franken will present a treasure trove

izoneguy Monday, January 5th at 4:03PM EST (link)

of material for the (R) candidate in 2014….
Did people in MN know a Senator serves for 6 years?

“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson

That is the bright side

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 4:20PM EST (link)

The Democrats could have picked any random, unknown candidate on their side and they would have had a more formidable candidate than Franken. A random no name would have won by 10 points this election. They wouldn’t have even had to steal it. Consider that 150k people who voted for Obama refused to vote for Franken. If we can’t have a Republican in this seat, Franken is the best we could have hoped for.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

With all due respect, this just sounds like "sour grapes".

Martin Knight Monday, January 5th at 5:19PM EST (link)

We just lost a seat for six years, there is no silver lining on this cloud.

Nothing wrong with keeping the troops motivated, in my view (nt)

Neil Stevens Monday, January 5th at 5:20PM EST (link)

Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis

 

Would you rather lose it by 0% or 10%?

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 5:27PM EST (link)

If they had nominated anybody besides Franken, there wouldn’t have even been a recount. Obama won the state by 10%. It was a very bad year to be a Republican… especially a D.C. Republican.

The fact remains that Franken is easier to beat than your average Democrat. That was the bright side when he announced, when they nominated him, and even now after they stole the election. That is a silver lining.

Obviously I would have preferred if the people’s vote for Coleman prevailed, but better that a divisive and unpopular guy like Franken gets in there with a margin of -0.01% than random Democrat lawyer #163 gets in there with a margin of +10%.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 
 
 
 
 

You are missing the Point

VanishingNYRep Monday, January 5th at 5:10PM EST (link)

You folks are forgetting that Minn had a third party candidate. The libertarian-conservative leaning party of the idiot wrestler Jesse Ventura. Ventura’s protege ran for Senate. He gathered a significant percentage of the vote that wouild have gone to Coleman. Don’t believe the liberal media’s blather and polls that the Ventura protege was drawing equally from Colemen and Franken. If you beleive that then you will believe that Perot drew evenly from the GOP and the Dems in 1992 and 1996.

You also forget that the Dems and ACORN came up with their “Secy of State” project to elect as many Dems-liberals as possible to Secy of State in each of these states just so they could steal these elections. We cannot win when the decks are stacked against us.

We must network in every state to create a communication system outside of the liberal media to spread the word to conservatives and the 20% of the popultation that get their info from the liberal TV media. We must network to raise funds for our candiates and so we can advertise and communicate our positions to the misinformed 20%. We must fight in every election. We must run canidates for School Board, City Council, County Board, State Legislator and every statewide office especially Secy of State. We cannot concede any office to the Dem-libs We must fight or become accustomed to living in a European socialized nation.

I know a lot of RedStaters and conservatives are annoyed at the GOP but it is the only vehicle we have to restore liberty and free markets to America. We must work within the GOP to make it truly conservative and to elect conservatives. We willnever be able to do that in the Dem party. They Dem conservatives are phonies. They get elected and then they vote with their liberal leadership.. They get re-elected by handing out gov’t money and not discussing their records.

We must organize and contest every election in every state. We may not win all of the time but at least our voices will be heard.

There is nothing either libertarian or conservative

zuiko Monday, January 5th at 5:21PM EST (link)

About the independence party. It’s filled with morons who for some reason don’t like the two parties, but don’t know and can’t articulate why. They are just like the reform party they are an offshoot of. The independence party doesn’t really attract votes other than protest votes. Since they don’t actually stand for anything, it’s not hard to see why.

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

 
 

Coleman let it get this far. He has only himself to blame.

Martin Knight Monday, January 5th at 5:15PM EST (link)

We need to get rid of this idea that the voting public admires politicians who smile while getting shafted by their opponents. Bush did that throughout his Presidency, and he’s leaving office with the lowest approval ratings since Nixon.

I said this before; once it was obvious that the Canvassing Board were really there to clinch a win for Al Franken, Coleman should have let loose with ads and daily Press Conferences challenging every single egregious (and they so are) decision against him - which was practically every one.

He should have openly called this what it was; an election being blatantly stolen in broad daylight over and over again.

The Democrats may not like it. The MN and National Press may tut-tut over it. He may even have to contend with the MSM’s menagerie of pet “moderate” Republicans brought in to agree with the liberal talk show hosts on Sunday Morning asking him to sit back and just take it.

But, at the end of the day, he would be in a far better position than he is today. Even if he ends up losing, he’d have established a foundation for himself to run against Klobuchar in 2012 or for Governor in 2010.

Agree. And by the way, Martin,

itrytobenice Tuesday, January 6th at 11:47AM EST (link)

I read your debate questions and you did a good job. I voted for each of them. Did any of them get asked?

The problem with America is stupidity. I’m not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don’t we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Sorry ... didn't watch.

Martin Knight Tuesday, January 6th at 5:20PM EST (link)

So I don’t know. Posted them up kinda late anyway so I wouldn’t expect it.

 
 
 

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