Comments on: Does Obama have to serve a penalty for lying to the Pope? http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:53:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: JHancock http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1607 JHancock Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:29:19 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1607 Want fewer abortions, the question is how we intend to achieve this aim. Democrats waive their hands in the air and envision a far off future where birth control will be free and sex plentiful...A Brave New World. In their "fewer abortions", woman just get pregnant if they want to...or from the radical feminist point of view not at all. Until that time they view abortions as unfortunate but necessary, kind of like working or paying taxes, or from a 1700's tobacco farmer's view, slavery. Republicans on the other hand envision a future where people have a responsibility to act ethically and also have laws to encourage ethical and responsible action. To us abortion is not "unfortunate" but is manslaughter at the very least if not murder. It is unnecessary and unconscionable, and we don't want it to end "someday" along with religion and marriage like the lefties, we want it to end NOW. Want fewer abortions, the question is how we intend to achieve this aim. Democrats waive their hands in the air and envision a far off future where birth control will be free and sex plentiful…A Brave New World. In their “fewer abortions”, woman just get pregnant if they want to…or from the radical feminist point of view not at all. Until that time they view abortions as unfortunate but necessary, kind of like working or paying taxes, or from a 1700’s tobacco farmer’s view, slavery.

Republicans on the other hand envision a future where people have a responsibility to act ethically and also have laws to encourage ethical and responsible action. To us abortion is not “unfortunate” but is manslaughter at the very least if not murder. It is unnecessary and unconscionable, and we don’t want it to end “someday” along with religion and marriage like the lefties, we want it to end NOW.

]]> By: daezy http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1606 daezy Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:26:32 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1606 He lied to the wrong guy! The Pope's boss isn't going to like it. He lied to the wrong guy! The Pope’s boss isn’t going to like it.

]]> By: Neil Stevens http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1605 Neil Stevens Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:47:48 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1605 ]]> By: libertymt http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1604 libertymt Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:47:05 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1604 People only care about "the '64 model", and questioned whether he had changed his position on abortion later in life during the 80s. I'm just pointing out that the '64 model of both Goldwater and the Conservative movement held the same position on this and a whole host of other issues. Which, as he summed up so clearly in one sentance back then, is that “You can’t legislate morality.” As for lionizing him... this thread was started by someone with the user name "electgoldwater". It was him I originally replied to. :D People only care about “the ‘64 model”, and questioned whether he had changed his position on abortion later in life during the 80s.

I’m just pointing out that the ‘64 model of both Goldwater and the Conservative movement held the same position on this and a whole host of other issues. Which, as he summed up so clearly in one sentance back then, is that “You can’t legislate morality.”

As for lionizing him… this thread was started by someone with the user name “electgoldwater”. It was him I originally replied to. :D

]]> By: Neil Stevens http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1603 Neil Stevens Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:29:52 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1603 He was right for his moment, but he wouldn't be right now. :-) He was right for his moment, but he wouldn’t be right now. :-)

]]> By: libertymt http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1602 libertymt Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:12:35 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1602 I just don't think we should lionize someone, or some group of people without being honest about who they were. Goldwater supported abortion for the same reason he voted against the civil rights act in '64. He viewed both things as being outside of the government's scope. As he said at the time, "You can't legislate morality." That wasn't just Goldwater being himself or being out of step with the movement, that was the essence of the Conservative position on both issues at the time. I just don’t think we should lionize someone, or some group of people without being honest about who they were.

Goldwater supported abortion for the same reason he voted against the civil rights act in ‘64. He viewed both things as being outside of the government’s scope. As he said at the time, “You can’t legislate morality.” That wasn’t just Goldwater being himself or being out of step with the movement, that was the essence of the Conservative position on both issues at the time.

]]> By: Neil Stevens http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1601 Neil Stevens Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:54:16 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1601 No more, no less. No more, no less.

]]> By: libertymt http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1600 libertymt Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:41:19 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1600 He wasn't then. His 'hands-off' attitude didn't just happen to mesh well with Conservative views back then, it defined them. It sounds like you're trying to argue that Goldwater was somehow all alone in his position on this issue, and no one noticed it until the 80's because it wasn't talked about or a big issue. I don't think that's true at all. There were tons of Conservatives at that time who held the exact same 'hands-off' attitude (specifically about abortion) as him. He wasn’t then. His ‘hands-off’ attitude didn’t just happen to mesh well with Conservative views back then, it defined them.

It sounds like you’re trying to argue that Goldwater was somehow all alone in his position on this issue, and no one noticed it until the 80’s because it wasn’t talked about or a big issue. I don’t think that’s true at all. There were tons of Conservatives at that time who held the exact same ‘hands-off’ attitude (specifically about abortion) as him.

]]> By: Alberta http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1599 Alberta Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:29:35 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1599 -nt -nt

]]> By: Neil Stevens http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1598 Neil Stevens Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:15:40 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1598 His hands-off attitude meshed well with conservative views back in a time when marriage, abortion, and other issues were enshrined in law the conservative way for the most part. But as pillars of our culture come under attack, priorities change. Goldwater's views on those new priorities show him to be out of step, and so he never could have been a leader of the conservative wing of this party any time after Roe. His hands-off attitude meshed well with conservative views back in a time when marriage, abortion, and other issues were enshrined in law the conservative way for the most part.

But as pillars of our culture come under attack, priorities change. Goldwater’s views on those new priorities show him to be out of step, and so he never could have been a leader of the conservative wing of this party any time after Roe.

]]> By: alarm1201 http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1597 alarm1201 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:09:48 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1597 I think he gave the 10 suggestions. I think he gave the 10 suggestions.

]]> By: libertymt http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1596 libertymt Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:09:47 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1596 It's hard to say if he would have been the same icon had he ran after Roe v. Wade. His thoughts on the issue weren't all that different from the rest of the movement back when he ran. It took decades for this to become the issue it has. The party was not at all united in opposition to abortion at the time, and the first platform after Roe shows it. It's not good (or honest) to pretend the party hasn't changed, or that it was only Goldwater who changed. Things are a lot more complex than that. It’s hard to say if he would have been the same icon had he ran after Roe v. Wade.

His thoughts on the issue weren’t all that different from the rest of the movement back when he ran. It took decades for this to become the issue it has. The party was not at all united in opposition to abortion at the time, and the first platform after Roe shows it.

It’s not good (or honest) to pretend the party hasn’t changed, or that it was only Goldwater who changed. Things are a lot more complex than that.

]]> By: 6eorge Jetson http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1595 6eorge Jetson Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:01:43 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1595 This time, there was no need for the middleman Moses. This time, there was no need for the middleman Moses.

]]> By: CincoSolas_del_Bronx http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1594 CincoSolas_del_Bronx Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:28:04 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1594 As John Knox to Mary QoS (related by Michael Horton): "Madam, God hath not sent me to whisper pleasant things in princes' ears." As John Knox to Mary QoS (related by Michael Horton):

“Madam, God hath not sent me to whisper pleasant things in princes’ ears.”

]]> By: Rod_Patrick http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1593 Rod_Patrick Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:26:10 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1593 So there will really be no worries for Abortionists out there. So there will really be no worries for Abortionists out there.

]]> By: Neil Stevens http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1592 Neil Stevens Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:23:01 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1592 In 64 it wasn't a big issue. It only became one when the usurpers on the Supreme Court made it one. He'd never have gotten the reputation he has, had he run after Roe. thanks, In 64 it wasn’t a big issue. It only became one when the usurpers on the Supreme Court made it one.

He’d never have gotten the reputation he has, had he run after Roe.

thanks,

]]> By: bs http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1591 bs Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:01:56 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1591 ]]> By: bk http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1590 bk Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:49:44 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1590 He doesn't count the morning after pill as an abortion, so if we can get more PU486 and condoms dispensed in schools, maybe the number of abortions will go down. Voila! He doesn’t count the morning after pill as an abortion, so if we can get more PU486 and condoms dispensed in schools, maybe the number of abortions will go down. Voila!

]]> By: Mike gamecock DeVine http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1589 Mike gamecock DeVine Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:48:13 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1589 ]]> By: libertymt http://www.redstate.com/bs/2009/07/14/does-obama-have-to-serve-a-penalty-for-lying-to-the-pope/#comment-1588 libertymt Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:41:11 +0000 http://www.redstate.com/bs/?p=446#comment-1588 In his autobiography and his collection of speeches from '63. He also voted for it for years. Says he didn't want government involved. His wife founded the Arizona Planned Parenthood organization in the 40's, and the national organization still gives out an award named after him. every year. Here, dug this out one of my books: "They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the religious right. It's not a conservative issue at all." Don't get why people continually gloss over this. In his autobiography and his collection of speeches from ‘63. He also voted for it for years. Says he didn’t want government involved. His wife founded the Arizona Planned Parenthood organization in the 40’s, and the national organization still gives out an award named after him. every year.

Here, dug this out one of my books:

“They think I’ve turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That’s a decision that’s up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the religious right. It’s not a conservative issue at all.”

Don’t get why people continually gloss over this.

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