lady? Honestly, do you truly expect anyone in their right mind to get on board the Crazy Express with you on this subject? Carrie Prejean has not been, to my knowledge, held up as a picture of family values. She has, however,and rightly so, been held up as an exemplar of someone who gave the answer that her conscience dictated she do without worrying about what it would cost her. And once it did cost her that title, she didn’t change her answer or her opinion or back down from what she said.

Mostly all your 21 years has brought you is a stiff-necked pride in your own opinions with no regard for the opinions of others. That game can be played two ways, my dear. I’ll be very surprised if your arrogant little screed gets even one recommend.

This is a world-class strawman.

If you read through the entire article Janis, you would see that she has in fact been held up as a “picture” of family values.

Hopefully you will read it, think about it, and if you feel so moved come back with a comment more constructive than assumptions and comments like “crazy express.”

Your comment shows the intolerance and lack of foresight that I discuss in the article, hopefully that will change.

Thanks.

I think it’s problematic that Ms. Prejean is touting family values whilst competing in a pageant that overtly sexualizes the contestants….

This just in, Christians are still sinners. Every Christian is a hypocrite, unless you’ve become perfect and thus no longer need salvation (incidentally that’s what Jesus said to the Pharisees). Ya know, when I get thinking too much of myself is when I need to be reminded of a great trait - humility.

or do you really think(I’m leaning to the former). A conservative feminist is one oxymoron and right up there with the biggest ones of all. I think you might want to rethink things with your split loyalty as far as being conservative. So please, stop being a sockpuppet for someone else.

in the wrong forum. When Carrie was on the political stage (in the news), she appeared to have some pretty conservative values. I don;t think she ever tried to present herself as speaking for all Conservative women, only for herself, at this age, at this time. You seem to be picking a fight where one is not necessary. I think it is important to accept some of the minor differences and be glad for the bigger agreements.

Unusual to see someone your age be so judgmental. I just don’t think beating up on Carrie is fair or helpful. On a positive note, she actually did a lot to expose the vile hatred the Left has for Conservatives, and we can be more accepting of her as a person.

and I’ve just about worn my keyboard out from typing that phrase so many times, but I am a Christian, and I don’t see any problem or conflict with modelling whatsoever. 90% of the rest of this site will disagree with me here, but I also don’t see a problem with nude modelling in and of itself, as a form of art (before anyone attacks me, I’m not defending Playboy and the rest of those selling the sexual aspect of nudity). After all, one is forced to ask himself how it is that it is wrong to use one’s physical attractiveness to gain employment, but perfectly okay to use your intelligence or strength to get it?

As to your Carrie Prejean diary, it comes at an odd jucture: generally speaking, Prejean was a one-hit wonder who was wrongfully maligned for her answer in a beauty pageant, and promptly forgotten about after that. I wish her well, but I could really care less about what happens to her from here on out relative to the larger issues that we face with the healthcare bill and other statist expansions looming over us. I suggest that you direct your blogging efforts towards more current and relevant issues, rather than an issue that has been buried for a while; just a friendly suggestion.

…and you are not Henry V.

You’re acting more like an allied commander at Gallipoli, 1915.

Please, at least post some pictures. It’s the least you can do.

Your attitude reflected in your post shows forth your internal state about the subject and does much more damage to the cause of Christ than the good you intended.

Unconditional love is the hallmark of Christianity. So I would ask you, how have you demostrated God’s love both in your post and your comments?

If you truely see yourself and Ms. Prejean as God sees both of you then this post would have been written with much more humility.

To be honest, quite apart from the fact that you’re a very obvious troll, I really don’t see what there is to argue about with you here.

I’m sure everyone here agrees; Carrie Prejean does not represent you. Yay! Though I’m quite sure she does not actually think she does or that anyone else thinks she does either.

I mean, I’m pretty certain when you walk down the street no one points to you and exclaims; “Carrie Prejean represents her!”

So where’s the beef?

---

 To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it.
      - Margaret Thatcher
NOTE: “consensus” = “Bipartisanship™”/”Centrism™”

This is really my favorite part:

I don’t know about other women, but I don’t believe that lingerie modeling is targeted to us.

Because obviously, Christian, conservative women never buy things to make themselves feel sexy and special. Cdyer, you would DIE if you ever saw my top drawer.

I’ve never understood this squeamish fear of the human body. Sure, she’s in a bikini…so am I, when I go to the beach. (Good heavens, avert your eyes!) Sure, she’s modeled in her underwear, but honestly, who looks at a lingerie ad and says, “Good HEAVENS how disgusting!” Not me! The human body is a work of art–there’s nothing hypocritical about appreciating it. However “meh” I may feel about pageants, it doesn’t make me spew venom about a girl who had the courage to stand up for what she believes. She’s not doing porn, posing for Maxim, or sitting on Heff’s lap; she’s cool with me, because 1) she’s a great example to follow with regards to taking care of your body, 2) she stood up for what she believes in, and 3) she bitchslapped Perez Hilton across his smug face.

And for the record, I’m 24, in law school, a christian, a political activist, and have managed to make it through life without letting my black lacy thong turn me into a hypocrite.

Try again.

“Ms. Prejean is allowed to have one foot in the world, and one foot in championing Christianity.”

It seems to me that one *must* have one foot in the world in order to champion Christianity. When Jesus broke bread with sinners, that is exactly what he was doing, and it was part of the Pharisee’s problem with him.

As far as the other parts go, take a few minutes and read Song of Solomon. I think you’ll find it is perfectly OK for a Godly woman to be smoking hot. In a Biblical sort of way, of course.

…or, rather, she would be, if she were personally opposed to gay people getting married while wearing swimsuits.

I, too, would like to see some photographic evidence of said hypocrisy, unless cyder has run out of one-word, adjectival subject headers at this point.

That said, I’ve been very disappointed that Conservatives have chosen to champion former Miss California Carrie Prejean. Regnery Publishing, a Conservative book publisher, is even publishing a book by her called “Still Standing”.

You didn’t mean to say that she shouldn’t be allowed to publish a book did you? Or that a publisher shouldn’t be allowed to publish her?

And here:

I would never have assumed something like Miss USA or pageantry in general to be something that a Conservative would champion. Apparently I was wrong.

We’re all supposed to be lock step opposed to beauty pageants? And then are liberals the only people allowed to enter one?

And here:

Second, Ms. Prejean is competing in a pageant that requires her to walk on stage in a bikini that in no way can be called modest. I don’t think anyone would think that this would be a very Christian thing to do, call me old fashioned.

Do we Christians need to dress like the 1920s? No bikinis allowed either. How much of my stomach am I barred from showing? Any?

Pot meet kettle:

Parading Ms. Prejean around not only makes conservatives look like hypocrites it reinforces the stereotype of the chauvinistic Conservative male.

This entire diary makes you look judgmental, and just to show that you don’t represent me (and I know, you never said you did, just as Carrie Prejean didn’t ever say she represented me or you either), I’ll say this:

Conservative women can enter pageants or not, as they choose. They can wear swimsuits, model, buy lingerie, wear lingerie, etc. strictly and only based on whether or not they want to. Whether or not I would makes absolutely no difference.

Conservatives believe in freedom and liberty. Forcing conformity is for the other side.

This one is either a young fool with no self-awareness or a troll trying to be the stereotypical unsophistocated and judgemental Christian that is the image all lefties see. Beyond observing the creature’s behavior a little, this hardly seems worthy of any effort. Now, if they’d been some good pictures, I might have another view.

I cannot reply to your response, but what aesthete said is very appropriate.

Obviously, you do not fully understand the term “meek” for it is a term that Christ himself uses to draw sinners unto himself, and is part of the fruit (not fruits) of the Holy Spirit that enables us to draw others unto Christ. Meekness is an action term, like all the fruit of the Spirit, and flows from the strength of humility found before a Loving/Merciful/Long Suffering/Holy God.

the way she is dressed while she said it! and you are whom exactly to sit in judgement of anyone? GROW UP!

Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy

Why don’t you use your energy to fight real battles of chastity in our society. Sex education and the whole NEA shoving garbage down kids throats might be a good place to start. I’m totally serious, the attacks on innocent children’s mind and soul are non stop from the NEA.

Don’t confuse women’s beauty with your disgust over how our culture uses it. God made women beautiful for their husbands. None of us would turn into tired looking moms if we weren’t cute at 21. We wouldn’t be here if our fathers didn’t find our mothers attractive.

listen, 21 years old is no age to be firm in your ways. You will learn how your opinion will change once you reach 28, you will find that the gender feminists are nothing more than male-chauvinist counterparts, like my wife. Big differential between 21 and 30, my word she sounded just like you at your age. Then again, feminist would claim I brainwashed her, but then again, she’s still a woman and proud of the differences between men and women. Two poles of the same magnet.

You would have head off a lot of criticism by letting us know what set you off, the release of her book. I was just a few years older than you are now when I read something that just hit me “upside the head.” I am paraphrasing St. Francis “preach God’s Word and sometimes speak it.” Your anger comes through in your post and in your response to criticism which does no good. Methinks you need to reflect on the anger to find the root of it and grow up.

.

With all the important things going on in the conservative world I click on this web site to read a self righteous rant about the Epic Crisis of Carrie PreJean?

Good grief.

PreJean has shown a great deal of courage and written a full length book. That buys something of value in my store.

I don’t follow beauty pageants, but a huge number of women, and men, do. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but prudery is not a core conservative value.

Why are we wasting time or energy on this nonsense?

Cdyer88

I’d like to encourage you to continue developing your thought, both moral and political, and finding ways to put your thoughts out there for consideration and response. Its one of the best ways to learn discourse and debate skills, which, as a christian conservative in our country, you’ll need to perfect. You’re obviously passionate about your views, so find ways to present them that don’t leave you open to easy rebuttal or counter-punch.

What I would suggest you consider is this: many who read this blog would probably agree with your point that answering one question in a “conservative” manner doesn’t make you a pillar of conservative thought. As Ms. Prejean gained exposure( pardon the pun) I had the same reflexive reaction. Namely, why should she be looked at as spokes model (sorry, couldn’t help it) for conservatism because she got some blow back for an un-pc answer?

However, when I read the opening paragraph I had the following thoughts (I being honest, here, so pardon my directness)…1. The word feminist is rarely a positive, even though you try desperately to redefine it. The libs own that word, so don’t go there. Can’t you just be a capable woman? 2. You’re bitter about mistreatment of women that you’ve likely never endured yourself. You get to vote, you get to enroll in the same schools, take the same classes and apply for the same jobs as any man. If you don’t make the same money, it may be due to negotiation skills, not some chauvinistic slight. Why be a victim when you don’t have to be? 3. You’re probably not attractive. Now, you may be beautiful with a rockin’ physique. But you fixate on the sexualization of women in a way that screams jealously, not concern. 4. You forgot to ask the key questions…why are we quick to hold up the latest and greatest? and would you, in her shoes, turn down book deals and TV appearances? Those questions get to the issue of where we are as a society and culture and they are bigger than Ms. Prejean. Your approach makes it much too personal and made me think of the advice of Jesus…take care of the beam in your own eye first.

Again, I had all these thoughts coming from an initial favorable impression of your entry title.

Our side needs young, passionate, and sure men and women who aren’t afraid to stand up for conservative values and principles. Keep getting better…there is much to accomplish.

1. I enjoyed reading your post, and I feel the same way you do. I expressed the same sentiment (in less words) to my husband earlier tonight. You are stating the really glaringly obvious here.

2. I cannot explain the responses you’ve received, but I just wanted you to know that not everybody who is reading this is off their rocker, nor are you.

3. I think I’m seriously done with Redstate. The abusive posts in this thread are the kind of tripe I usually expect from Liberals.

i don’t know what the words ‘christian’ and ‘conservative’ even mean anymore. i thought a conservative was someone who believed in smaller government, lower taxes, free enterprise, and individual liberty. i thought that a christian was someone who followed the teachings that tell us to love one another as ourselves, to turn the other cheek, and not to judge.
instead, we see articles like this one that ooze with judgement in the name of being christian and espouse the infringement of individual liberty as a conservative value. many here have written off this writer’s article due to her youth, but the sad fact is that she learned her understanding of what it means to call oneself a christian and a conservative from her elders. it’s her parent’s generation who warped two admirable concepts to fit their prejudices, ignorance, prudishness, and impulses to control the lives of others. if the writer really wants to be a rebel, perhaps she can find a way back to tthe values and politics that unite us in freedom and love rather than nitpicking at ancient bigotries and setting artificial limits on what it means to be a good person and an effective citizen.

.. and the same goes for the young ms. prejean who has allowed herself to be used by rather unscrupulous people masquerading as defenders of ‘tradition’ to further their agenda to demonize and marginalize a significant portion of the citizenry ,,, also under the banner of being ‘christian conservatives’, we can be better than this.

Cdyer88 - I understand that you’re very passionate about this, but the critiques from the commenters are spot on. Your post comes across as a self-centered cry for attention in an inappropriate forum..

There is a place and a time to espouse your belief that Christians should not look up to Prejean (although it’s a silly view, because no one, least of all her, has ever said she is a role model - Christians just didn’t like the way she was treated), but RedState is not the place for that.

Carrie Prejean, despite her professed biblical values, is not the best spokesperson for conservatism, or Christianity . Her stand for family values (she spoke at the Values Voters Summit) stands in contrast in the liberal media to her alleged profession (displaying her beauty for a contest: not unlike Esther of biblical times). And as was pointed out by Jack Savage, the Song of Songs describes a woman’s body and what the guy wants to do with her.

However, the Song of Songs describes this in context of a monogamous and wedded relationship, which is really the only acceptable arena for sexual expression. There’s a clear difference between wearing sexy clothing (i.e. intended to draw attention to your body) for your significant other in the privacy of your home and in public. If dress is not important, why not just negate clothing altogether, or legalize prostitution, if its such a virtue? Is modesty so out of fashion that it is labeled ‘prudery’ nowadays?

The Bible has a lot more to say about prudery modesty:

Prov 11:22 - Like a gold ring in a pig’s snout
is a beautiful woman who shows no discretion.

1 Peter 3:3-4
Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes (or lack thereof - X’s addition). Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.

Now, I’m a 26-year old Christian who happens to be male. God designed guys to be visually attracted to good-looking women; if he hadn’t, we’d spend our time fishing or fixing cars or drinking and cracking jokes with the guys or whatever we like to do, thereby dooming the human race. But I like to think that women are more than their body (I happen to find brainy women very attractive), and some of the prettiest women I’ve met were also the most shallow (not to be construed as a generalization), otherwise they are just soulless objects.

The Bible has a few things for us guys too:

Matthew 5:27-28

You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’[a] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

David and Bethsheba, anyone?

Thankfully I have a mother and sister (21, BTW) who are pretty in their own right, but dress modestly (defined as ‘loose enough to be modest, tight enough so I know you’re female). I

So we have a 2-way street: guys don’t give the ’second look’, and
women don’t dress like whores (don’t advertise if you aren’t selling). I’m not suggesting burqas, girdles, or no makeup, but there has to be a happy median between ’spinster aunt’ who dresses in ankle-length black dresses and prostitute. Sadly too many females, including Christians tend towards very revealing clothing.

Chelsea, you said, “The only way that she should be even remotely allowed to champion family values is if she were to come out and say that her previous actions as a model and pageant winner were in fact immoral.”

I just don’t understand this. Are Christians not allowed to be models? I’ve never been a model, but I have worked in advertising and hired models. Have I suborned sinful behavior by paying someone to stand in front of a camera and smile, holding up my client’s product? What about acting? Actors have to stand in front of cameras — or even live audiences — and perform scripted actions. Is that immoral too? (What if the acting role involved dressing in a bathing suit?)

If you were only talking about nude or obscene photography, I could understand. (And to be sure, Miss Prejean has done that.) But you seem to be saying any woman who allows herself to be seen in swimwear, or wins a beauty contest, is ipso facto doing something immoral. This is a very weird and, to my mind, unsupportable assertion you have made.

Conservative/Republicans should stop this moralizing BS. Carrie Prejean is God’s lamb she is being destroyed by the left….ohhh she took some topless pictures? uhhhh well every lamb strays from time to time….. Oh she has a SEX tape well ummmmm ummmm ummm ummm

See where this gets you… What if Ms. Prejean had just stuck by her pronoucement that she was against Gay marriage but not tied it all up in God. As soon people who claim to be holier than thou show the slightest crack in their Godly exterior the attack begins. If you hold conservative views and defend them based on liberty and freedom then who cares if you did a lil blow, or smoked a lil weed, or made a lil sex tape.

I believe in freedom for EVERYONE. To me that means Ms. Prejean can denouce gay marriage from the mountain top while pole dancing high on crack. I would let her do that because I want freedom in my life and your life. I may not agree with any of your decisions but if you dont HARM me or others I really got no beef with you.

The higher you build your tower or Righteousness the farther you have to fall. And quite frankly Carries tower is pretty tall thanks to a lot of people who rallied around her and her trumpeting of christian ideals. She isnt even close to the bottom yet but I suspect she’ll be there soon.

“Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Left-Wingers are never happier than when they get to point the finger and self-righteously accuse the other side of that most greatest of sins; “hypocrisy!”

The problem, of course, in this case, is that this young lady (if she is indeed young or a lady … or even female - she certainly is no conservative and is quite frankly, hard to believe as someone with much more than a fleeting relationship with religion) is really unhappy with Carrie Prejean for standing up against gay marriage.

So the next thing is to attack her personally (Rule 13: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.) and play the hypocrite card by accusing Prejean of failing to live up to their imagination of her Christian standards.

Then comes the attempt to conflate everything together.

You see, Prejean is a hypocrite for opposing gay marriage. Why? She wore a bikini on stage and she has made a (solo) sex tape. David Vitter is a hypocrite for opposing gay marriage. Why? He slept with prostitutes. John Ensign is a hypocrite for opposing gay marriage. Why? He had an affair …

One wonders what one (e.g. gay marriage and wearing swimsuits in public) has to do with the other. According to Lefties like this poster, one can’t do both - or else one is a “hypocrite”. Strangely enough, they’re completely oblivious to the fact that they’re not making a good argument for themselves by implicitly arguing that people who visit prostitutes and adulterers should naturally support gay marriage.

Now if Prejean, Vitter, Ensign, etc. were married to people of the same sex while opposing gay marriage then I’d be more inclined to pay attention to the charges of hypocrisy.

Otherwise … I’m just amused by it.

---

 To me, “consensus” seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects … There are still people in my party who believe in “consensus” politics. I regard them as Quislings, as traitors … I mean it.
      - Margaret Thatcher
NOTE: “consensus” = “Bipartisanship™”/”Centrism™”