This started as a comment to dpayton’s diary titled Obama Derangement Syndrome and expanded to the extent that I thought it better to write my own diary.
As part of the RedState community, we all are to be on the same side in terms of opposing the policies and direction that Obama and the Democratic Congress would take us and instead trying to preserve and expand our individual liberties, building upon conservative principles.
We all see the terrible actions taking place and the destructive effects that each individually will have on our nation.
The challenge here has to do with perception of the larger picture when you step back and try to discern the larger pattern. It’s like looking at a puzzle where some pieces have been put in place and you see other pieces being prepared for placement and you try to figure out what the final image is going to look like.
The problem is that if you wait until nearly all the pieces are in place, then you will face nearly impossible odds of preventing completion. Conversely if you intuit too soon, you risk coming up with the wrong image.
So what it boils down to is at what point we intuit the image and take action accordingly.
And we all have different points when we are willing to take that inductive leap to intuiting the whole and to take a stand and act on that conclusion.
So to dpayton and others who worry (rightly) about ODS, what many RedStaters are telling you is that many of us as we connect the dots (to change metaphors) are intuiting that what we see is a radical effort to change the Rules that have governed our nation’s political process to create a one-party state. And as we increasingly see classic tactics that totalitarians have historically utilized to seize and hold on to power, we more strongly come to the conclusion that a totalitarian goal is behind these tactics.
Now, you recognize, and we all recognize that a certain percentage on the left (those with BDS) had apocalyptic views of the Bush administration ushering in a Fascist state and rather feverishly connecting the dots to come up with that picture. And they were very wrong, as history demonstrated.
And thus you - and all of us - are understandably skittish about repeating the mirror error and doing ODS with Obama. And caution is certainly in order, because credibility of one’s judgment is at stake.
And so I would leave you with two fundamentals differences between the Bush administration and what we see of the Obama administration.
1) We see a monotonic effort by Obama to federalize and central areas of endeavor that historically have been in state or private hands, most notably the government take-over of GM and Chrysler and expansion into the financial industry. And we see their support for Obamacare and Cap-and-Trade, and federal hate laws legislation - and more notably the whole net-neutrality issue coming to the for - what we see is uniformly and effort to expand the scope of the federal government and to increasingly regulate every sphere of individual and corporate behavior.
When this trend is uniform and always in the direction of increasing government power, then the evidence becomes preponderant that the goal is an all-powerful state and curtailing of individual freedom. The end of just a trajectory is the fundamental idea that rights reside in the government, who gives rights to people as they see fit. This is the root upon which all tyranny finds nurture.
The radical alternative that was expounded in our Declaration of Independence, the novus ordo seclorum upon which our nation was birthed was that rights inherently reside in individuals, who give to government those limited powers as are necessary.
And this ancient deception- that rights reside in the government, not in individuals, is a fundamental move off the bedrock foundation upon which our nation and our liberties are protected and a move onto sand.
Although some of Bush’s actions arguably augured increasing governmental powers (such as the Patriot Act) - in the larger picture of the actions of his Administration, these could reasonably be viewed as aberrations from a general pattern of increasing individual and private power. Conversely, in the Obama administration, the pattern is uniformly towards increasing governmental control.
2) The second line of evidence are the statements and writings of the various people who Obama has appointed to positions of power in his administration - and also the statements and writings of his admitted mentors.
And a preponderance of these individuals by their very words have stake out radical positions that involve revolutionary changes in the system of government of our nation and the adoption of a Marxist-type of government and concentration of governmental powers to impose their programs upon the nation. They don’t want to abide by our Constitutional governance.
And it this is what they’ve said and written, we need to take them at their word. Too many times in the past, people have said “no, they really don’t meant that, it’s just posturing” - and then act shocked when these individuals then proceed to do exactly what they said they would.
Let’s not repeat that error in our time.
So when you weight the evidence, you must at least conclude that the danger signs are evident. At what point you will make that jump, that is up to each person’s judgment.
It’s certainly more comfortable to think that the rules are being honored rather than that an effort is underway to change the rules - especially when the rules have been in place for at 140+ years (i.e. the end of the War Between the States).
But seriously consider whether the game is changing - because all our futures and those of our children and generations to come may be at stake.
An excellent response civil_truth. recommended.
Vegas_Rick Tuesday, October 20th at 2:39PM EDT (link)The evidence is substantial and building. And the foundation of that evidence is this:
“We are five days away from fundamentally changing the Untied States of America.” Barack Obama
I will do everything in my power to stop it.
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
I think point one is valid
Streiff Tuesday, October 20th at 2:50PM EDT (link)Point two, places one parlously close to extremism.
The ability of any person, or group of persons, to undertake any fundamental shift in government is minimal. I believe you can take these people at their word, which I do, but also realize that they simply can’t do what they want to do without the cooperation of a lot of people. If they win, it is because a lot of idiots on our side thought that turning the GOP out of Congress would teach us a lesson.
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
You're probably right, Streiff.
Vegas_Rick Tuesday, October 20th at 2:57PM EDT (link)Just the same, let’s keep an eye on them.
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘press on’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” Calvin Coolidge.
totally agree
Streiff Tuesday, October 20th at 4:03PM EDT (link)and we need to declare war on guys like Van Jones and his NAMBLA Czar and hang them around his neck in 2012. But we can’t afford to go paranoid.
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
I am not sure that I agree with your conclusion.
larueladue Tuesday, October 20th at 3:05PM EDT (link)I am not sure that is extremism…
The current administration is packing the Federal bureaucracy and courts with like-minded leftists, communists, etc. That right there qualifies for a good portion of the “cooperation of a lot of people” that you mentioned. And with the “passive/aggressive” RINOs in Congress and at the state level playing into the hands of the Democrats, we have a LOT of people trying to fundamentally change our government. I agree that if they win, it is the result of faulty reasoning on the part of a lot of voting idiots, but I am not willing to simply let this exercise in civics run its course…
“Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.” - Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus (Vegetius) in “De Re Militari,” Book III.
well that just isn't true
Streiff Tuesday, October 20th at 4:02PM EDT (link)the federal bureaucracy, except for the 3K Schedule C appointees are the same people who were there the last administration. Obama only has 3 judges approved.
What you worry about is your own business but I’ve always found it more useful to worry about real stuff.
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
The current consolidation of power in the hands of the Federal Govt...
nessa Tuesday, October 20th at 4:17PM EDT (link)…from the government’s complete control of energy production and distribution resulting from Crap and Tax, their complete control of jobs, wages etc resulting from Card Check, their complete control of American’s very lives resulting from ObamaCare, the administration’s generous treatment of Iran and their utter disregard for the Constitution of Honduras, the influx of undeniably vetted Czars each exceeding the last in their depths of socialist/progressive depravity, the minimization and disdain the Tea Parties and Town Hall Protesters received at the hands of our benevolent progressive leaders, the utter disregard for the wishes of the citizens as these leaders strive to force an unpopular healthcare bill down our throats by subverting their own long standing parliamentary procedures … Need I go on?
You’re absolutely right Civil Truth, “At what point you will make that jump, that is up to each person’s judgment.”
Each action by this administration and their socialist/progressive allies follows the “worst case” course of action. I made that jump quite a while ago. Each of you is gong to decide whether to jump or not in the near future.
Remember the Five Points of Performance, have a safe jump, I’ll see you on the Drop Zone.
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Contributor to The Minority Report
On the money, nessa, well said.
janis Wednesday, October 21st at 8:15AM EDT (link)I made it to the Drop Zone, all limbs intact. Got tangled in the ‘chute, though, and was dragged into the nearest cow pasture. Must have been some lefty cows as they crapped prodigiously and never even offered to help. Rude moo-stards.
That was an interesting reference, nessa
civil_truth Wednesday, October 21st at 11:34AM EDT (link)I wasn’t thinking of parachuting, but your analogy is apt, especially if one is jumping in the face of hostile fire. I also got to read about the Five Points of Performance, which I hadn’t heard of before.
Do you have real-life experience, or are you just knowledgeable?
Thanks for your kind words.
And Rightly So!
Civil Truth, I spent most of my career in the 82nd...
nessa Wednesday, October 21st at 12:28PM EDT (link)…experienced and knowledgeable, at least about exiting an aircraft while in flight. The Army invested a great deal of time, money and effort teaching me to memorize things. Sustained Airborne Training (Pre Jump) is one of them, its been over a year but once I started the words were still there.
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Contributor to The Minority Report
Quite a lot of fascinating personal stories among our RedStaters
civil_truth Wednesday, October 21st at 12:49PM EDT (link)This is true diversity, not that poison that the left has brewed.
And Rightly So!
I was plotting out the intent and trajectory
civil_truth Tuesday, October 20th at 8:55PM EDT (link)Outcome, as you indicate, will depend on the response of others outside the Administration.
Unfortunately, as we’ve seen with Mao and Chavez and Mugabe and other dictators, the liberals and intellectuals and “reasonable” people played the denial game and willfully allowed themselves to be deceived that these folks didn’t mean what they said or that the citizenry or courts wouldn’t allow it to happen. Just as people didn’t take seriously what Hitler wrote in Mein Kampfe.
The point is that we need to recognize the nature of this Administration - and their Democratic fellow-travelers in Congress - and that is that they are committed to revolutionary change - peacefully if possible.
What I can’t predict for certain is what will happen if we thwart their peaceful efforts. But the way they have followed the Chavez script (and other leftist dictators) with demonizing opponents in the press and elsewhere and calling for their ostracization - couple with their mobster-like intimidation of private industry and individuals who oppose them - this trendline makes me fear that they may be willing to resort to illegitimate methods to maintain power, subverting our Constitutional governance in the process.
We need to believe people when they tell us that they want a Marxist state - and keep in mind the history of how these states come into power and the unhappy end to that.
And Rightly So!
What you said, civil truth, that you can't predict
janis Wednesday, October 21st at 8:28AM EDT (link)what they will do when their plans are thwarted, that’s the part that worries me as well. The majority of us in this country don’t want what these folks are telling us we need, yet I have no doubt that they don’t give a rat’s red rear-end what we want, they mean to force it on us anyway.
So the question becomes, which side stands up and shouts “NO” first and how will they back that up?
Good diary!
larueladue Tuesday, October 20th at 2:54PM EDT (link)I think you have eloquently articulated what a lot of us think, feel and constantly worry about. Much, much better than I could have done, and evidently, in a very short amount of time!
“Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.” - Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus (Vegetius) in “De Re Militari,” Book III.
It is a swing of the pendulum Civil
kyle8 Tuesday, October 20th at 3:32PM EDT (link)but the swing will be in a far right ward direction. The blowback from these idiots in DC will be profound.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Appreciate the thoughtful response
dpayton Tuesday, October 20th at 3:51PM EDT (link)All I would add is that my actual diary post referred to the Oath Keepers group as an example of Ron-Paul-inspired extremism. The initial commenters excoriating me also said they wouldn’t necessarily sign on with them either or had no opinion about them. Of course, that was the crux of my charge of ODS on them, so without knowing of what I spoke, they nonetheless ranted at me for pointing it out.
But thank you very much for your considered diary.
Considerettes
they are Ron Paul inspired loonies
Streiff Tuesday, October 20th at 4:04PM EDT (link)nt
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
You know what though? Ron Paul was right about the Fed wasn't he?...
JadedByPolitics Tuesday, October 20th at 6:33PM EDT (link)He may have had a lot of paranoid schizo’s around him but the things he said with regard to the Federal Reserve has been on the money and who is out there screaming for them to be audited? Oh yeah….US! Why? because our country is falling apart at the seams and an UNELECTED bunch of bureaucrats are controlling all the strings. This win by a hardcore leftist has awakened something in Americans that has been dead for a long time and that is a desire to get back to the basic’s of the Constitution. RP may be 90% crazy but 10% of him is in all of us!
If you don’t know anyone in the Oath Keepers who are you to judge what they are? If anything they were doing were illegal they would be all over the leftist media so it is apparent they are within their Constitutional RIGHTS to gather & profess their OATH to the Constitution of the United States of America! They at least are doing something ARE YOU? or do you just sit back and lob insults at them?
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
Paul is either a knave or poltroon
Streiff Tuesday, October 20th at 7:02PM EDT (link)I don’t know what is worse, the thought that he believes the crap he tosses out when it is 99.999999999% hogwash and insanity, or that he doesn’t believe it and is simply preying on the addled for political gain.
The Larouchies aren’t illegal but I don’t want to be associated with them. All I know about the “oath keepers” is what is on their website. If it isn’t written by a staff writer for The Onion then they have no place in any political discussion.
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
Given the GOP history of winning with unapologetic conservative truth-telling that I document here, it shouldn't take courage to call Obama out for his radicalism and not just his Van Jones et al flunkies
Mike gamecock DeVine Tuesday, October 20th at 8:00PM EDT (link)Given the GOP history of winning with unapologetic conservative truth-telling that I document here, it shouldn’t take courage to call Obama out for his radicalism and not just his Van Jones et al flunkies
but apparently it still does, and if we don’t muster the courage we could still fail to re-take DC despite the Great Recession.
If the obvious import of Onama’s pre-election statements, coupled with his post-election actions aren’t enough for us to take the gloves off directly against him, rather than against his subordinates, then surely the Town Hall rise up of conservatism from the grass roots should grow us some spines.
Czars? He is the head czar! He is governing like a mobster threatening to unleash the pitchforks! He berates this country abroad to our enemies and betrays allies. He is a clear and present danger to arsenal of democracy and Liberty itself. Before the USA there was no Shining City and he is about putting out the lights.
The same voices of mderation were heard against lesser Obamas and we lost every time we heeded them.
Courage!
see here for instructions on same
http://www.redstate.com/gamecock/2009/10/20/only-rush-like-courage-can-defeat-obamadem-left/
amen?
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
For some reason when I thought of the current crop of
ColdWarrior Tuesday, October 20th at 8:28PM EDT (link)Republican “leaders” this came to mind:
“Lions of the Senate.” Indeed
Thank you.
ColdWarrior
http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com
American first, conservative second and Republican precinct committeeman by necessity.
http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com, so you can say, “I became a precinct committeeman before it was cool.”
“Elections have consequences, my friends.” — John McCain
thx CW! - that made my day - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Tuesday, October 20th at 8:36PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Ron Paul is a jerkoff nutjob who thinks we had 9/11 coming to us.
Third Street Wednesday, October 21st at 6:55AM EDT (link)Ron Paul often brings to my mind one of my favorite political cartoons of all time. It was by a local (Baton Rouge) cartoonist by the name of Fred Mulhearn, and ran during the David Duke Senate campaign of 1990. In it, a woman confronts a man carrying a Duke sign and decked out in Duke campaign regalia, and she begins to lay out for him in detail his candidate’s long, horrific, hateful past.
The man simply and calmly replies “Yeah, but I like what he says about affirmative action.”
5 (nt)
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 7:06AM EDT (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
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well I guess I am like that man
kyle8 Wednesday, October 21st at 7:38AM EDT (link)I know Ron is a kook, but I wish we had about fifty more like him in the House. At least he is a more reliable vote against big government than the average Rino.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Ron Paul was and is completely wrong about the Fed (nt)
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 7:08AM EDT (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
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Well then Neil I guess DeMint was wrong too huh?.....
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, October 21st at 7:55AM EDT (link)He wanted the Fed investigated as well. You certainly seem to know they are wrong so why don’t you tell us why they are wrong or is it something you “feel”.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
Huh?
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 8:27AM EDT (link)What does Sen. DeMint have to do with the crazy ramblings of Ron Paul?
Ron Paul has said more than that we should “investigate” the Fed. Much More.
I suggest you research Ron Paul’s rantings about the Fed before you fly off half-cocked, defending him.
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I suggest you all read what I wrote....
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, October 21st at 8:45AM EDT (link)I will say the same to you I just said to mbecker….READ!!! I said it needed to be investigated I said RP opened up people’s eyes to that fact…I said he is 10% not crazy and 90% crazy I said all of that but NONE of you READ what I said.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
You're not helping your cause
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 8:54AM EDT (link)Why even bring him up?
The only reason to bring him up is if you want to associate him with your views. And if you do that, yo u’re going to get pushback because he’s a psycho and/or a corrupt panderer to psychos.
It’s like that example elsewhere on the site today. If you want to oppose affirmative action, you don’t say “Well David Duke was right on that, wasn’t he?” Yes, he may have been right, but he was right on it for the wrong reasons, and was still wrong on his greater position.
The same is true with Ron Paul: He may be right that the Fed can use oversight, but for the wrong reasons, and his actual position on the Fed was and is entirely wrong.
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I brought him up because I had not given the Fed....
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, October 21st at 9:00AM EDT (link)any consideration until I heard his sycophants go on and on about it. He was brought into the mix by the tool from yesterdays diary. I will give credit where it is due. I am not going to sit here and pretend somehow I brilliantly decided that the Fed was a problem and we need to fix it when the reality is that the Paulites brought it to my attention and to DeMints attention as well. One NEVER knows where lightening will strike but once struck a lesson is to be learned.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
If you think Ron Paul is due credit on the Fed...
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 9:02AM EDT (link)… you’re more wrong than I thought.
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In the first place Jaded, you need another cup of coffee.
mbecker908 Wednesday, October 21st at 9:01AM EDT (link)You didn’t read, or misread, my comment for sure and probably Neil’s too. Oh, but for specifics I’d be interested in a diary about the 10% of stuff that Nutjob Paul is supposedly “not crazy” about.
Get off it Jaded.
mbecker908 Wednesday, October 21st at 8:30AM EDT (link)There’s a HUGE difference between “investigated” and “done away with”.
Ron Paul is the only person I can think of who could do more damage to the US than Obama. The best thing about Paul is that he couldn’t lead a meth-head to five pounds of crystal.
As far as the Fed is concerned, if you link our currency to gold we’ll just be a third world country and if you’re planning on doing away with the Fed and keeping our current monetary system you’d pretty much have to do that. See blackhedd for a complete dissertation on the subject.
How about you GET OFF IT mbecker....
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, October 21st at 8:42AM EDT (link)I did NOT say anything about doing away with the Fed and if YOU specifically ad read what I said I said RP was about 10% correct with regards to his insanity which brought INTELLIGENT thinking Americans to the conclusion that the Fed which is a lot of unelected officials deciding the monetary policies for every HARD WORKING American NEEDS oversight they NEED to be investigated NO ONE should have that amount of power without being held to account! I get you all hate him so much that you are BLIND to anything but your hatred however some of us can see the forest through the trees!
OBTW I read blackhedd everytime he writes a diary because I respect his intelligence cannot say the same for 95% of the others.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
Now you're just trolling
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 8:56AM EDT (link)If you’re going to insult 95% of RS diarists, you’re just a troll now.
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There Is No Crisis
trolling? drop dead!
JadedByPolitics Wednesday, October 21st at 12:45PM EDT (link)…
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
You compared DeMint (who wants to investigate the Fed)
mbecker908 Wednesday, October 21st at 8:58AM EDT (link)to Ron Paul (who wants to do away with it). That was the basis for my comment. There is NO comparison between the two men or their positions.
I have no issue with the concept of “oversight” and said nothing against it in that comment or any other post I’ve written, although I have lots of major issues with the practice of it and for examples of that I would offer Congressional oversight of banking and intelligence to name just two.
I don’t “hate” Ron Paul. I’m frankly amazed at him. The idea that a guy who has accomplished exactly nothing in 20+ years of being in government can draw any support from anybody on anything simply leaves me scratching my head. The is just as wrong on economics and economic theory as he is on foreign policy. Mr. Paul hasn’t proposed a single policy in his career that is rational or workable. He also hasn’t been able to pull any semblance of support from anywhere but the ether that breeds conspiracy nutjobs.
Couple of points here
aesthete Wednesday, October 21st at 12:04PM EDT (link)1) Congressional oversight, while nice in the theoretical plane where we have effective and competent government (with Fred Thompson as King-for-life, of course), will not be as effective at corralling the Fed’s fiscal policy blunders in practice: there will be a dog-and-pony show of “what people knew and when they knew it”, regurgitated partisan sniping, and a general ignorance of the process. The Fed has an enormously complex job, which could be regulated and/or investigated properly with the right approach, but which probably would be pigeonholed into a talking point for some demagogue or other. Essentially, it is the same principle as investigation of the armed forces: though it can be beneficial in small doses and in measured steps, it’s not at all good at a time when emotions are running high and government officials are looking for a scapegoat. Auditing the Fed is the last thing I would do right now: it would repel anyone who is being professional, for fear that any false moves would end their careers, and would provide Democrats with an easy target on which to foist the blame. In short, there is little to recommend the policy even when the political environment isn’t charged (would you trust the members of congress with looking over your shoulder at your expenditures?), and there is absolutely nothing to recommend it in a Democrat-dominated Congress desperate to both find a whipping boy for their policies, and to “punish” the Fed, as their mythology posits that the current crisis is completely due to the Fed’s policies and lack of regulation. (Heck, I wouldn’t even trust the GOP in its current state to do a good job with such a complex issue.) That is DeMint’s position.
Ron Paul, OTOH, wants us to go back to the feudalistic practice of backing our cash with gold; a concept that is silly to the extreme, and that made the governments which backed their money this was do some really absurd things to keep up with price changes in gold (and devaluation of currency).
With that in mind, perhaps pointing the sharp sticks towards our real enemies (Al-Quaeda, Obama’s agenda, the Black-Eyed Peas) would be a better course of action than applauding Ron Paul’s quixotic quest to “restore” the gold standard.
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
Most of commenting on your little screed, dpayton,
janis Wednesday, October 21st at 8:36AM EDT (link)already knew about he Oath Keepers group. You brought no new information with you. As I was one of those “initial commenters”, rest assured that I wasn’t going to share what I knew of them or believed about them with someone like you. What they represent is a notion that is, in this super-charged political atmosphere, dangerous to contemplate and even more dangerous to support out loud.
It is you who are the under-informed. Although my opinion of your behavior is that probably all of it was designed to drive some traffic to your sites, which are probably snoozing peacefully and uninterrupted. Suggestion for the future in that endeavor: If you wish to tempt people to come read your stuff, then offer them a tasty hors d’ouvre instead of a nasty little turd in the punchbowl, hmmm?
I'd never heard of the Oath Keepers
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 9:09AM EDT (link)His warning me of those nuts was of great value to me.
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So, Neil, you never saw Alex Kowalski's diary
janis Wednesday, October 21st at 9:35AM EDT (link)on the highly reco’d list? Just look up there on the right side of the page. It’s been there for a few days now. If you want to stay informed, just look at that list daily and check the RedHot list.
Just wanted to be helpful.
I have to admit
Neil Stevens Wednesday, October 21st at 9:36AM EDT (link)At times I get too busy to follow the site as much as I’d like. And since I started on Twitter I’m following the FP more through that, than actually visiting, heh. Which hurts my Diary and Red Hot reading.
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Twitter, Neil?
penguin2 Wednesday, October 21st at 10:27AM EDT (link)But we need you here.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.
Benjamin Franklin
You basically wrote my diary
dpayton Wednesday, October 21st at 10:40AM EDT (link)What they represent is a notion that is, in this super-charged political atmosphere, dangerous to contemplate and even more dangerous to support out loud.
In my original diary, that’s basically my point, with the addition that we shouldn’t be afraid to call them out when we see them. That was it, man. For that I was called an enabler, an apologist and a useful idiot.
And as I’ve said, and as you’ve continually refused to do, you can read my other RS diary entries to try to justify those charges. Up to you, mon. Common courtesy would be nice, is all.
Considerettes
dpayton, I hope you also agree with Rush on who to go after and on what: transcript
Mike gamecock DeVine Wednesday, October 21st at 12:13PM EDT (link)So you got two high-ranking White House officials citing their appreciation for and respect for the philosophies of Mao Tse-tung. It is happening! And I’ll tell you what really amuses me at times is people, when they hear about this. “Does Obama know who these people are?” (snorts) Obama is Anita Dunn! Obama is Ron Bloom! Obama is Van Jones! Obama is Mark Lloyd! Obama is ACORN! You think these people just accidentally got chosen to serve in this administration. Obama is these people! He gets to go out there and portray himself as Mr. Perfect. He always smiles. He never ever does anything wrong. He never commits one faux pas. He never loses his cool. He never says radical things. He’s the public face of centrism and moderation, and yet the people doing his dirty work are the same radicals that he is.
He is a radical. It’s there for everyone to discover. Some people just don’t want to believe it.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Yep, he's Che's (philosophical) kindred spirit in a country that, by and large, won't let him get away with it nt
aesthete Wednesday, October 21st at 12:19PM EDT (link)Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
Indeed I do
dpayton Wednesday, October 21st at 12:44PM EDT (link)Don’t let these guys who’ve never read anything else I wrote affect your perception of me. I think that Beck and Limbaugh (and those kids who video’ed ACORN) are doing quite a service in unmasking these folks for who they really are. They’re also demonstrating who Obama really is and his poll numbers are tanking to prove it.
You have no need to wonder about my position, good sir. I’m not a RedState diarist to be a spoiler.
Considerettes
dpayton, I have a good perception of you brother. I don't think we should
Mike gamecock DeVine Wednesday, October 21st at 1:01PM EDT (link)spend much time on the Oath Keepers and certainly don’t want us to fall into the trap many did on immigration, who used the fringe racists a sa reason to attack anyone that was for a fence, but I do agree that the Oath Keepers’ talking points go too far, but too too far, if you know what I mean.
I bemoaned the loss of liberty before Obama and even before Bush 43, and this Obama sucker is 1000 times worse than anything we have ever seen.
I think we are on the same page.
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
I meant but NOT too too far...nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Wednesday, October 21st at 1:02PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
20 years in a church where the pastor cursed America.
David123 Wednesday, October 21st at 9:54PM EDT (link)That is a bad sign, by itself.
David123
Neville Chamberlain and the GOP Senate Leadership would disagree with you, c_t
Joe Rivers Tuesday, October 20th at 4:17PM EDT (link)nt
Maquisard
I leapt right after Honduras.
redneck_hippie Tuesday, October 20th at 8:57PM EDT (link)That wasn’t the first proof that Obama dishonors the constitution of a country, of course. It was the most gratuitous, however, because for once he wasn’t doing it for political expediency or to buff up the fundraising. The guy is a collectivist. What name you use doesn’t matter. Try to catch the first hour of Mark Levin’s Oct. 19th program on his web site where he plays clip after clip of The One confessing his collectivist ideology.
Audio Rewind: 10/19/09
http://marklevinshow.com/sectional.asp?id=32930#
The misery this man plans to foist on all of us and generations to come is criminal.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
I leaped after reading the communist Dreams from his pa and Rev Wright's hate America audacity of hope; after Obama HIMSELF
Mike gamecock DeVine Tuesday, October 20th at 9:11PM EDT (link)said the Constitution has a fatal flaw and that this nation needed FUNDAMENTAL change; that the coal industry needed to be bankrupted and that we needed to learn a lesson with $4?gal gas, only with a longer run up! That those that disagree need to shut up lest he stop standing between banks and pitchforks! That America has been derisive of the rest of the world! That Iran’s people can burn so long as he can deal with the mullahs. After all we sinned with the shah 60 years ago, so anything goes against the country that occupied the fruited plain before Obama came to redeem us.
Wake up and smell the rose folks rather than falling into the old MSM trap of acting as if fringe groups define the GOP.
No, the fringe groups took over the Dem party and rule us now!
I been leaping more than those seven lords on the 7th day of Christmas…
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
I was a leaper, too, it just took a little
redneck_hippie Tuesday, October 20th at 9:25PM EDT (link)more of a shove to get me over the threshold of my C-130.
There was a bit of a distance between seeing leftist jackassery and being able to believe we had elected a communist as our president.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
understood bro - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Tuesday, October 20th at 9:31PM EDT (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
I was a bit wrong
Hooah_Mac Tuesday, October 20th at 10:19PM EDT (link)I knew what Obama was, but I never dreamed he would actually try to go this far and this fast. I assumed that his “handlers”, advisers or puppet masters - either way, would have told him how badly this would crash and burn and get him to go more subtly.
“You can call yourself a Republican, but if you’ve lost the support of Fred Thompson, you are an unholy thing that will be destroyed by a rain of fire.” -IMAO
redneck-hippie- Seems that today is the day for those still half asleep to come out in unison
Scope Tuesday, October 20th at 9:48PM EDT (link)I’m not sure what else this administration has to do to get their attention. If they still do not get it, they never will. In this thread, Strief and dpayton still seem to be in the denial stage. With the overwhelming mounting evidence, the proof of the affiliations of this administration, with the unconstitutional ploys being used by the D majority to get their progressive policies passed at any cost, with the recent war against the first amendment in attacking Fox, Rush, Beck and now the Chamber of Commerce to totally control the media, with the fact that they are now infiltrating christian religious organizations, with the lack of any coherent plan to protect our troops in Afghanistan now serving there and on and on, they can’t possibly be awake or remotely aware of what is actually happening. It astounds and shocks me that there are some that read Redstate, and read any other number of other websites that have facts, proof, and detailed information on the overreach of this government, that still think that we are all just paranoid. I would suggest thet they pinch themselves and see if they feel anything.
It's okay with me, Scope, that not all who
redneck_hippie Tuesday, October 20th at 10:16PM EDT (link)“belong” to Redstate have leapt to the same conclusion as you and me. Civil Truth really nails the issue with this diary. Only gradually can someone “change” their mind. For now it is enough that the fear of losing our foundational underpinning is waking people up. The threat of socialized medicine is teaching the masses that not every “change” is good. Nobody likes to lose what they have sweated for and worked for and paid for. It is happening all around us every day.
One of the things that scares me the most about our politburo government is the fact that they know the majority of voters are against their health care schemes, and they are still pushing it. They no longer fear the electorate. That is a terrible, frightening fact.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
Well, That's Because They're Stupid
IJB Tuesday, October 20th at 11:26PM EDT (link)The Left doesn’t fear the electorate because they are unable to understand the world around them on a most fundamental level.
The thing you have to understand about the Left is that they believe their own hype, and believe their own myths.
They never believe they can lose. Until they do. Over, and over, and over again…
Even France muddles along
6eorge Jetson Wednesday, October 21st at 1:23AM EDT (link)On the economic front, if we become like the Western European nations, we’re likely to see growth like the Western European nations. Maybe a long run deduction of 1% or so in GDP per year. And a totally unsustainable entitlements social contract that will have to be broken. In numbers alone, it doesn’t sound too bad, until you consider the compounding effects over, say, the next 25 years.
On the other hand, I wouldn’t want my portfolio to be underweighted US stocks when the light at the end of the tunnel, Obama’s sinking popularity numbers, becomes a brilliant flash as the likelihood of the end of the Obama agenda transitions from maybe to just a matter of time.
On the foreign policy front, we can also reestablish leadership. But their will be some horses out of the barn. We’ll have to reestablish the capability to shoot them down.
Plus, there’s just the outright annoyance of this American that doesn’t like to be told what to do. I like my freedom.
nope afraid that Euro style slow decline is not in our cards
kyle8 Wednesday, October 21st at 7:43AM EDT (link)Because it will cripple our ability to react to anything going on in the world, and without the US to do the heavy lifting the bad guys will run wild.
Europe could afford to commit suicide because they had us looking out for them.
Also, in Europe, they always had a group of hard headed socialists who could come in every now and then and lower taxes or cut some welfare subsidies when things got too bad.
We have no such people in our socialist movement. They are all so radical they will absolutely not stop until the train is in the ditch. Witness present day California.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
After I hit post & reflected, another consideration worsened the outlook of my thoughts above
6eorge Jetson Wednesday, October 21st at 8:10AM EDT (link)France is built for socialism, the US is not.
It has years of experience of adjusting for the inefficiencies/disappointments of a socialist system. And a workforce that has been bred in that shackled culture.
The motivated US worker, on the other hand, has an expectation that he/she can make an impact. The ball & chain ankle-weights of a realization of Obama’s agenda would undoubtedly cause some early retirements, or semi-retirements of those deciding that it’s now time to coast. We’re just not built for “it doesn’t matter much what you do, so just show up and go through the motions.”
Agree in large part
aesthete Wednesday, October 21st at 2:03AM EDT (link)and it’s a great response to dpeyton’s diary, but I completely disagree with the idea that Bush was some sort of champion for the neoclassical free-market, with a few unfortunate aberrations in his record. Are not massively increased federal involvement in K-12 education (and higher), government prevention of various, non-harmful activities (online gambling, for starters), Medicare expansion, skyrocketing debt, and the appointing and general reliance on Neo-Keynesian economists enough to disabuse one from the notion that Bush was in the same mold as the preceding presidents? Don’t get me wrong, Obama is much worse on many, many levels than Bush, but that’s a far cry from good governance! Bush, while a genuinely decent and honourable human being, was a terrible president, and his policies and appointed personnel were a remarkable departure from the neoclassical dominance which characterized the post-Reagan years (even if, unfortunately, that ideal wasn’t lived up to), to a more Keynesian, technocratic style of governance. /rant
That said, I agree with basically everything else that you said, and it was brilliantly and incisively laid out, as almost all of your contributions to RS have been. (The reason I include the qualifier, “almost”, is because I have surely missed several of your contributions on one of my several hiatuses from RS. I’m sure that they’re just as excellent as your norm, though.) Recoed!
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
Addendum
aesthete Wednesday, October 21st at 2:10AM EDT (link)I’m pretty sure that, as always, Keynesianism wasn’t so much an ideology as a useful bumper sticker that sounds better and more acceptable/politically correct than, “we’re gonna toss your money down the memory hole!” Still, if there was a direction that government was going under Bush, it was definitely towards more acceptance of Keynesianism.
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
keynsianism wasn't an ideology
kyle8 Friday, October 23rd at 6:48PM EDT (link)it was an excuse. An excuse that few people really believed would work. If you read anything about the New Deal, you will see that there were many different opinions and nobody, especially FDR, knew what the hell they were doing. But they did know that they wanted high taxes and government control of the economy, because they were marxists. So Keynes gave them an intellectual cover for their anti constitutional actions.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
Even my profs. in college
Leopard1996 Friday, October 23rd at 7:02PM EDT (link)Taught the theory of Keynes, and made us take the test on it, then when that test was over the next day, they said that it was full of s*&t.
“The accumluated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout, “Save Us!”….and I’ll look down and whisper, “No”…The Watchmen
Bush and Obama - and for that matter McCain, Graham,
mbecker908 Wednesday, October 21st at 8:37AM EDT (link)and most of the Senate and Obama - are two peas in a pod when it comes to the role of government in our daily lives. None of them have ever seen a problem that “the government” couldn’t solve. Every last one of them gets their suits from the DC tailor shop specializing in “Empty Suits”. One size fits all.
mbecker, see my reply to aesthete
civil_truth Wednesday, October 21st at 11:59AM EDT (link)…which should appear just below here. Your comment is quite on-point.
And Rightly So!
Your objection is well-taken
civil_truth Wednesday, October 21st at 11:56AM EDT (link)I’m afraid what was my intent didn’t quite come out right, and I thus overstated my case by apparently stating that Bush was a great defender of the neoclassical free market. That wasn’t what I was trying to drive at here.
I agree with you and mbecker that Bush did not fight against ongoing government encroachments into our economic affairs and was responsible for significant government expansions. NCLB and his Medicare drug benefit law comes to mind immediately. Not to mention enabling the congressional porkfest and government spendings during the Republican majority rule that led to their loss of their majority and the ushering on of Obama.
The issue that I was trying to deal with was not economic policy but rather civil liberties. I was trying to draw a distinction between Bush’s actions around the Patriot Act and 9/11, which subsequent actions to me indicate that his instinct were not Orwellian but rather aberrations in the time of unprecedented hostile actions against the U.S. mainland.
On the other hand, I do perceive a pattern of Obama administration actions that does indicate their sympathies (and probably intent) to suppress dissent and use government powers to monitor and intimidate dissenters along the Chavez model.
I would be willing to hear your arguments if you (or mbecker) think that the Bush and Obama are “peas in a pod” regarding this level of government intrusion and attempts to control and suppress dissent, as I see a substantial difference.
But when I expanded that contrast on civil liberties to “a general pattern of increasing individual and private power” - I agree that was a bridge too far.
And finally, thank you for your high compliments on my contributions to RedState. It was very gratifying to read them.
And Rightly So!
On Bush and civil liberties:
aesthete Wednesday, October 21st at 12:17PM EDT (link)I would say that, given the emotions running after 9-11, the administration was remarkably restrained, from a historical perspective. After all, Lincoln suppressed dissent to an almost tyrannical extent (not that the CSA was much better; just more undermanned), and the FDR administration’s “internment camps” program unjustly imprisoned an entire class of Americans on the basis of race, as well as confiscating their assets. In that sense, I would like to rate Bush highly on civil liberties, and really, he does deserve props for that restraint. That said, as you yourself noted, he never really pushed for increasing civil liberties, and yes, the Patriot Act could easily be considered both unconstitutional and a curtailing of our civil liberties. Also, the handling of the José Padilla case completely undermined the rule of law and citizens’ rights. I suppose that I would say that, while Bush was pretty good at keeping civil liberties mostly intact, he wasn’t so much a defender of civil liberties as much as he was asleep behind the wheel. Also, it should be noted that his administration’s occasional undermining of the rule of law (again, Padilla) has greatly aided Obama in his endeavors by providing both precedent and cover for his actions.
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
as well as his
kyle8 Wednesday, October 21st at 12:55PM EDT (link)undermining of federalism.
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
aesthete- Don't forget McCain Feingold
Scope Wednesday, October 21st at 1:31PM EDT (link)which Bush signed into law, knowing it was unconstitutional (as to free speech), but still signed it thinking it would never pass muster with the Supreme Court. I believe, if I am not mistaken, it is only before the Supreme Court now.
Forgot about that crapper
aesthete Wednesday, October 21st at 1:36PM EDT (link)probably a suppressed memory
And now I’m mad all over again! Thanks for noting that one; an example that clearly didn’t further America’s interests (unless by America, you mean John McCain’s gigantic ego).
Guilt is a rope that wears thin.
-Ayn Rand
“I am a freeman in a free state!”
-Last words of Dumnorix, chieftan of the Aedui, 54 BC
CFR and SCOTUS
cwilson Wednesday, October 21st at 5:10PM EDT (link)Nope, they told Bush they weren’t going to do his dirty work for him wikipedia and upheld it in 2003. This new case is a different approach to try and get it scrapped.
Here is how most of my friends & family view the Obama administration
izoneguy Wednesday, October 21st at 8:23AM EDT (link)“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson
If TheOne™ is a joke...
From ME to You Friday, October 23rd at 3:47PM EDT (link)why am I not laughing????