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The Free Trade Creates Wealth For All Open Thread
And a rising tide lifts all boats
By Neil Stevens Posted in Free Trade | Mexico | NAFTA | obesity | Open Thread | Taxes — Comments (29) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Relatively, the United States has more obese people than any other country in the world, and per capita Mexico is second on the world obesity list. Diabetes is now the leading killer.
These weren't always true of Mexico, but now they are. Why? NAFTA created wealth, a rising tide lifted all boats, and now Mexicans are ever more likely to be able to buy the food they need, plus the food they want, so much so that they can eat too much.
The human body is made to withstand food shortages. Perpetually having enough food will always create obesity. Weight is a sign of prosperity, and I for one am glad that NAFTA could help Mexico as much as it helped the USA.
Open Thread.
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That doesn't counter my point (nt)
by Neil Stevens
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I believe that most Mexicans are just plain old large and fat due to genetics. Lord knows I live among a whole lot of them, and they just tend to be big people, period.
Yes, a rising tide lifts all boats, but there remains a portion of the public who will NEVER be satisfied with that position because it takes away their shiny toy, which is political power which they can wield over their neighbors.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
I have visited Mexico quite
by PhxG
I have visited Mexico quite often over the pact 15 years and I can say that with the exception of the central region, where the majority of the illegals come from, prosperity is advancing considerably.
I will agree there is a ton of fast food there today, and more every day then just 10 years ago and it IS a factor contributing to the obesity of Mexicans. No different then here too.
The biggest change I noticed was the variety of available products in the grocery stores. Certainly it is no where near what we have in the local Kroger, but just speaking with locals, they have more today then ever before. They have the opportunity to be consumers and thus this has spawned new businesses that cater to the new wealth that is part of Mexico.
The real problem is that once you go 50+ miles inland it is the Mexico of 1901 with only a few exceptions. I spent a week in Cocula, LA, MX it was amazing. Literally like stepping back in time. And as poor as you can imagine. But growing!
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Hooray for brilliant open threads with brilliant premises. (n/t)
by Pejman Yousefzadeh
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid." --Friedrich Nietzsche
food that has no nutritional value. The real reason American leads in obesity is not because we have excess food but because much of our food is trash and we are suckers for good marketing. (thus eating the trash and thus having diabetes)
If your reasoning held true then there would be plenty of countries on the list above Mexico.
Then why didn't they have these problems before? (nt)
by Neil Stevens
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I have traveled in Mexico several other South American nations. I agree with you that Diabetes is a problem created by American goods but in my experience the principle instigator is Cola.
In third world countries where Cola is introduced it has experiences incredible popularity but because they have no or very little dental care, it causes a great number of health and dental problems. In addition it causes a marked up tick in calorie intake even while people continue to eat like they always have.
Cola was already in South America well before Nafta and I would assert that it has a much larger role in Mexican obesity rates than Nafta or any assumed economic prosperity.
Very true.
But I'd take a
by PhxG
Very true.
But I'd take a coke in a bottle over local water any day.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--Aristotle
Mmmm ... Twinkies.
by Canthros
Although it's not as though pastries are new.
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This too shall pass.
a nitpick ...
by scotchex
Not to be a nitpicker, but the phrase "no nutritional value" just isn't accurate. All food has nutritional value, otherwise it's not food.
Fast food has proteins and carbs and fats -- the basic nutrition we all need. If anything, it has too much nutritional value -- it provides so many calories, so cheaply, that many people over-indulge.
I have food snob friends that are obese and I have another friend who eats fast food every day and is thin (and almost 40). One of my fat food snob friends wouldn't be caught dead in a fast food restaurant. He also doesn't drink soda. What he does do is constantly eat and drink very expensive food and wine. My thin friend eats fast food practically every day with a soda, but not very much.
The growth in obesity rates is a complicated issue. Still, I have to object to the phrase "no nutritional value" as just being an inaccurate description of modern fast food.
"nutritional value". (I'm not ranting on fast food here, in fact I love fast food as much as the next guy however)(In addition I was applying the term as much to grocery store foods like Captain Crunch as I was to Fast foods.) - However, it is incorrect to equate "nutrition" with "calories". Google "brix " and "food". Many of the minerals, that your body needs to survive and thrive are not found in fast food, nor in much of the junk sold in grocery stores.
don't buy that .....we are obese because
by jdub19
of laziness and no exercise. IMO
" Got to love the Lord for making things like that."
Morally Compromised
yes...but it's a simple equation...
by jdub19
take in more calories than you burn, you gain weight.
Not trying to be a smart arse but it really is that simple.
A factor of lifestyle is exercise or lack of....
" Got to love the Lord for making things like that."
Morally Compromised
And the poor can't get away with that (nt)
by Neil Stevens
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me of a news feature recently regarding a young gal, that is an early morning runner.
She found time to go to the local homeless shelter, and coax some of the people there to run with her in the early morning hours.. She got them shoes, and every morning has been going by to get them...the group has not only grown large, but it has helped people in that group feel better not only physically, but also motivated them to improve their situation.
" Got to love the Lord for making things like that."
Morally Compromised
No I mean it
by Neil Stevens
If you don't have a car, getting a job inevitably requires exercise, even if it's not a job involving lots of hard physical labor.
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Fatter Mexicans
by Charging Piper
Maybe this will slow some of them down as they try to dash across the border. Then again, those who make it will end up using more of our taxpayer-funded health care. So all in all, a wash.
diabetes.
While diabetes is obviously a bad thing (and don't I know it from personal experience!), it is evidence that people are not being killed off at an earlier age by other maladies.
It's not just cola, it's starch. The corn-based Mexican diet is full of carbs, which is a risk factor. Add that to the sedentary lifestyle that goes with an information-based economy, and you have the basis for a sharp rise in diabetes.
Excellent point on longevity (nt)
by Neil Stevens
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I agree with you regarding starch as well.
by DGaines
Although I don't know that you could characterize Mexico as an information based economy.
The longevity point is an excellent one as well. However I would also argue that Nafta is not necessarily the source of either a. Increased Mexican prosperity, nor b. Increased Mexican longevity.
At this point the long term benefits of Nafta if any remain unknown and unknowable.
Actually, there are three Mexican economies at least
by streetwise
- the prosperous, middle-class economy that is the primary beneficiary of globalization
- the agrarian and industrial working people. Generally poor, but not quite as poor, and starch is cheap food, so their risk goes up
- the illegal work force in the US, which repatriates a good deal of their earnings to Mexico, lifting the living standards (and helping to pay for those cheap carbs).
Are there Taco Bells in
by Common Cents
Are there Taco Bells in Mexico?
Ask not what I can do for my country, ask what my country can do for me. Washington Elected Elite
Sometimes...
by El Cabra
...obesity is just another form of sustenance abuse.
(Yes, I have been waiting a long time to use that play on words; I'm not sure it was worth it.)
But there are clearly other factors that complicate this debate.
I happen to think High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) and Hydrogenated fats are what seals the deal for Obesity and Adult on-set diabetes in America. These fakes make food cheap so poorer people buy more of it, but the body has a hell of a time dealing with it. Would Mexico be any different?
You probably need to be extremely active to sustain that kind of diet into middle age without consequences, and even then it may not matter. I was in decent shape, working two jobs, one of them loading trucks for UPS for 5 hours a day, and I still ended up with high cholesterol. I eventually cut back the HFCS and Hydrogenated fats to avoid maintenance meds and it worked for me. But try buying food without this junk, on a budget. It's almost impossible; it's in everything. So what choice do poor people have? None as far as I can tell. The good food is bad, the bad food is worse.
I happen to think there is a nice tie-in here to the sugar tariffs and price supports debate. Cheap sugar would recduce the use of HFCS. Sugar in quantity probably isn't much better, but your body does a better job of metabolizing it. I don't know what we could do about hydrogenated fats, but there has to be an answer there as well.
Sure, calorie abuse is a huge problem, but these add-ins simply make worse. We could think of it as dietary poison for poor people.
555
by Darin H
Completely agree. I read labels and it's so tough to find just about anything prepackaged that doesn't include High Fructose Corn Syrup. Seriously, I see all the time HFCS, then Corn Syrup, and sugar in one product. Read the label on even supposedly healthy breads and you'll still see HFCS as the 2nd or 3rd ingredient.
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If you want to kill HFCS, kill sugar tariffs and subsidies (nt)
by Neil Stevens
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I have to disagree with you on this one. While free trade has increased wealth in Mexico, the obesity in that country rises as income diminishes. The poorest people in Mexico are the most obese (similar to the U.S.).
There could be a lot of factors for Mexicos obesity problem. I'm sure increased wealth in some parts plays a role. But you also have to look at the influx of fast food and other less desireable foods/drinks (that are cheap). As someone who goes to Mexico on business frequently, I've been astonished at how Americanized the cities have gotten.