Redstate

That woman absolutely disgusts me. She should be ashamed, but she's a monster. She makes Hillary almost seem likable. Almost...

But this race? She actually sunk so low to jump into a race with one of the POW's whose lives she helped make a living hell, not to mention defamation, etc.

Obama seems to have difficulties denouncing figures celebrated by the left... I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't denounce this one. Disgusted... but not shocked.

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- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"

and that is all that matters to her.

Faithful. Yes, I met with Shame; but of all the men that I met with in my Pilgrimage, he, I think, bears the wrong name.
:
Christian. I am glad, my Brother, that thou didst withstand this villain so bravely; for of all, as thou sayest, I think he has the wrong name; for he is so bold as to follow us in the streets, and to attempt to put us to shame before all men, that is, to make us ashamed of that which is Good; but if he was not himself audacious, he should never attempt to do as he does; but let us still resist him; for notwithstanding all his bravado's, he promoteth the Fool, and none else. The Wise shall inherit Glory, said Solomon; but Shame shall be the promotion of Fools.

soli Deo gloria

She's probably come the closest to the line separating treason and dissenting free speech of anyone since WWII.

Vets *HATE* this woman and with good reason. She didn't just speak out against the war... she crossed into enemy territory and worked with the enemy to produce propaganda and then came back and defamed our POWs, including McCain, Obama's would-be opponent in the general election if he gets the nomination.

When a whackjob like this endorses you it hurts your image unless you make it clear that you do not support them.

It would be even better if he took it a step further and pointed out that he detests what she did and is angered by her petty excuse for a partial apology later.

That's just not going to happen though because so many anti-war folks are so anti-American that they actually respect this scumbag... and he needs their votes.

But if he wants to keep the votes of all those independents and moderates out there who actually love their country he needed to denounce Wright outright, not with his puzzling attempts of trying to denounce without fully denouncing. I, as well as many others, consider Fonda a traitor, not just some protester, but technically and legally a traitor who should have been charged with treason.

If Obama doesn't denounce her pretty clearly if this becomes a hot topic in the media, it will, and it should, hurt his image.

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- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"

She's him.

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Gone 2500 years, still not PC.

Please explain.

Barack wholly accepts the notion that dissent is not only the highest form of patriotism, but that any other form of patriotism is suspect. You cannot read his speeches without tripping over that idea, and they don't come into focus without it.

His mother would have thought Jane to be next in line for sainthood.

Like him, she's a liberal Christian who came to full faith as an adult.

He could no more disown her than ...

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Gone 2500 years, still not PC.

I believe it was much harder to condemn Jane Fonda's actions, because of the duplicitous way the American government was conducting the Vietnam War itself.

On the one hand, America had sent half a million troops to Vietnam, and 50,000 of them had died. On the other hand, those troops were being shot at with weapons and military assistance provided to the Vietnamese Communists by the USSR, which the Lyndon Johnson Administration stoutly insisted we wanted "peaceful relations" with.

So as far as the diplomats were concerned, there was no linkage: The Soviets could be supplying whatever arms and other aid it took to slaughter our troops in Vietnam, while our negotiators continued to dicker with the Soviets over arms control and space treaties without reference to the war in Vietnam.

The Vietnam War, therefore, stopped being a black-and-white issue of beating the Communist bloc, but instead was seen as a "limited war" that needed to be "managed" so it wouldn't affect other aspects of East-West relations.

Into that murky mess stepped Jane Fonda, who sees herself as a "peace activist" who didn't have a dog in that fight. Well, neither did our arms control negotiators either.

Reagan's alternative policy--"We Win, They Lose"--was far more successful, because it was easily understandable even by the uneducated. It didn't require complex balancing of multiple variables in multiple dimensions against conflicting goals. It had one overriding goal--and it got there.

At least with al-Qaeda today, it's a lot more clear cut: Nobody has seriously suggested we negotiate with al-Qaeda about any "cultural exchanges" or anything else. It really is a case of "We Win, They Lose"--the only debate is over tactics.

1. We didn't send 500,000 troops to Vietnam and have 50,000 of them killed. About 2.594 million US troops served in Vietnam and an additional 3.403 million served in theater or afloat.

2. Not to defend LBJ, or Harry Truman, but Reagan was not engaged in a large scale shooting war with a Soviet proxy. That made his strategy viable. The fact is that during the Vietnam war our primary interest remained western Europe and keeping the Red Army somewhere east of the English Channel. That foreclosed a lot of our options in Vietnam. We could have done a lot more but that strategic reality would have remained the same regardless of who was fighting it.

The Soviets faced the problem in reverse in Afghanistan where they were fighting our proxy with a sanctuary supplied by our ally Pakistan.

Reagan's success was due to his ability to balance a huge geostrategic problem. Anyone alive during his two terms should be at least vaguely familiar with the pushback he got on deploying the Pershing-IIs and GLCM to Europe, on the brush wars in Africa and Central America, etc.

As the philosopher said, those who do not read history are doomed to invent it.

"A man does what he can and endures what he must."

Into that murky mess stepped Jane Fonda, who sees herself as a "peace activist" who didn't have a dog in that fight.

Your description of Fonda's activities is...lacking in specifics. It's also false. Fonda is perhaps the clearest example I can think of, besides Ramsey Clark, of an activist who was, plain and simple, on the other side. She did not support peace; she supported armed conquest of the South.

"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill

...to understand that Fonda was merely being objective about the whole situation and seeing both sides when she called returning POWs war criminals. I mean, how dare they react badly to her photo ops!

Sheesh. Next you'll be expecting people to permit you to have an opinion on the dangers of terrorism to the civilian population...

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

How DARE you? How DARE you come into our home and spread your hateful, Communist propaganda, shamefully attempting to lie for mass murderers and their blood-stained accomplices like Fonda, by suggesting that we and our country were somehow morally EQUAL with them?

Shame, shame, shame on you.

You're just like Ron Paul. You clearly have no respect for human life (or at least human life outside North America, which given the population ratios is basically the same thing), and apparently can so easily shrug off some horrific things done to too many people.

How DARE you? How DARE you compare this country with the country that killed hundreds of thousands in cold blood, and sent off thousands more fleeing in rickety boats to starve, dehydrate, get assaulted, raped, murdered, and drowned, because the open sea gave hope when the alternative was certain death?

Get out of here. Go crawl under the rock you came from, and leave the surface world to the human beings.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

And lo and behold, that did turn out to be the case. Unlike Penn, who got caught with his hands in the same kind of cookie jar for real.

Not that that has anything to do with this post.

So yes it was a big deal It will be again if he gets the nomination,

I was in DC when Rolling Thunder was there during the GOE event to be heard against the shrillness of the anti-war left.....those guys care and many members of the military care....they hate her and they hated Kerry and they will hate Obama for being the leftist garbage they are.....there are plenty of I's and D's and R's who will see this...if Obama is pictured with her as a hateful disrespect of our military members....she should have hung in the 70's.
Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

.45 Caliber Politics

I never said that nobody cared about Fonda, I disputed that anyone cared (or should care) what she has to say anymore. She was a poison pill in the 70's, but now she's an irrelevant dinosaur struggling to stay on the radar. Unless Obama sought her endorsement--which he didn't--you're only helping her remain relevant by making a fuss about who she endorses.

And the only way Obama will find himself pictured with her is if she accosts him in public. Otherwise there's no way for any reasonable person to allege that he finds her or her agenda appealing.

came out and endorsed McCain, you'd better believe that McCain would waste no time rejecting that endorsement. To have Fonda endorse Obama is indicative of the kind of far Leftist "thinkers" that his campaign attracts. It speaks to a whole generation of people who are repulsed by her and those like her who betrayed our military regularly. To have her endorsement when our candidate was directly affected by her treasonous actions is a resounding slap in the face to everyone who served in Vietnam--and, yeah, it matters a lot.

Call me a liar again, even by insinuation, and you will finally be able to get to tell all your friends how that horrible Moe Lane banned you, YOU!!!!!

Moe

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Seriously, what the thunder is your problem with me, aside from your general bile towards anyone left-of-center? Your comments to me are almost invariably nastier than I usually see from you here, and you seem to make an effort to put words in my mouth and misrepresent what I've said (e.g. rhetorical silliness like "take that as a yes" when I've clearly said nothing of the sort). It's starting to feel like you're going out of your way to give flak to any liberal who knew and liked you at ObWi, though for the life of me I can't quite figure out why.

This isn't the first time you've threatened me with banning over something you'd have to twist pretty far in order to call a bannable offense. If you think accusing someone of manufacturing outrage to score political points--which never happens in political discussions, really!--is even remotely the same as calling them a liar, you're really reaching for an excuse to take umbrage. If you really want to be rid of me that badly, and you think I've done something actionable, then pull the trigger. Otherwise I'd take it as a kindness if you'd stop waving the ban stick in my face for kicks.

Thanks.

I told you not to call me a liar again.

:ka-click: You will now indicate that you understand. You get three letters in which to do it.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

of the woman in question in certainly capable of provoking outrage in me, and I wager many more besides. Treason is a difficult thing to, as they say, get over. James Webb is out of favor among us these days, but his remark about Ms. Fonda is memorable: "I wouldn't cross the street to watch her slit her own throat."

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And the Lord upon the Golden Horn is laughing in the sun.

Watching Webb have to repudiate that on national television.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

I don't see how that follows. Has Obama sought her endorsement?

No sane Democrat (or carbon-based bipedal lifeform, for that matter) WANTS her endorsement. I understand the visceral reaction she generates. Hell, I react similarly, and my father (who did serve in Vietnam) will practically foam at the mouth at the mention of her. He doesn't particularly care who she would endorse, though. I don't think he'd giver her desires or hopes any thought at all.

She's an idiot, and an irrelevant one at that.

Webb's got a very long history of openly despising the 60's-era antiwar Left; a group that makes up a very influential part of the Democratic Party. He can get away with it mostly because both he and they decided that Paris was worth a Mass, or at least a Senate seat; but put him on the Veep slot and questions about how he feels about working with people that he once lambasted will get asked. A lot. Until he explodes.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

I actually think that helps in a general election. The Jane Fonda sympathizers are on the far left, and are going to vote for Obama no matter what. Webb's statements in that piece is going to attract more moderate voters and perhaps even some crossovers who are just not sold on McCain.

I still think the most dangerous Obama Veep choice for McCain would be Webb. He's a guy who served within the Reagan administration and outside of his view on the war, is really moderate (and even conservative on some issues). He could make some of the swing states very interesting.

..is the best combination, or the best combination... on paper.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

oil and vinegar. Snake oil (mislabeled as EVOO), and a shot glass of vinegar that should have been fine wine by this point, but it ... turned.

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Gone 2500 years, still not PC.

Webb strikes me as the sort who'd cheerfully reaffirm that sentiment on national television.