Clinton to Obama: Come out and debate me. If you're man enough, that is. [Update: He's declined.]
I'm guessing that the Thunderdome set has long since been dismantled.
By Moe Lane Posted in 2008 | Cut you if you Stand / Shoot You if You Run | The Best Democratic Primary EVER — Comments (52) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
[UPDATE: I'm impressed, Senator. I assumed that you'd need at least a day to decide to run away from this particular fight. Well, that'll teach me not to wait too long on matters touching on your... ah, "uncritical willingness to accept danger" is how I think Tom Wolfe put it.]
Just her and him, in two-minute back-and-forth sessions. No props and no prepared questions. Mano-a-mano.
Senator Clinton believes deeply that political debates are a vital part of our democratic process. It is the American way to place our would-be leaders side by side to hear them articulate and defend their ideas; to challenge each other on their visions for the future; to answer the tough questions about their plans, their records and their judgments; and to celebrate their achievements.
Senator Obama has declined the invitation from CBS and the North Carolina Democratic Party to appear for a debate at North Carolina State University tomorrow evening. Senator Obama has apparently declined the invitation of the Indiana Debate Commission to appear for a debate in Indiana next week. Senator Obama has not responded to Senator Clinton’s challenge to debate in Oregon. Will there be no debates in other upcoming states? The American people, of course, deserve more. They deserve debates before casting their votes. They deserve debates just like the states who have participated in this invigorating process before them.
[snip]
In the spirit of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, we make this proposal:
Senator Clinton and Senator Obama will participate in a 90-minute debate in an open public forum. Just the two of them — no questioners, no panelists, no video clips. One candidate would speak for two minutes, then the other, alternating back and forth all the way through the debate. Their discussion – not any pre-set rules – would determine how long they spend on one subject before moving on to another. Such a debate would range across all of the challenges, large and small, we face as a nation or it could focus on the most significant issue we face today, — the economy.
This all assumes that Senator Obama thinks that he can handle it, of course.
Read on.
Personally, I'd say that Senator Obama would be an idiot to accept this offer, given that everybody knows by now that his command of oratory is more or less limited to reading an already-written speech. The end result of him doing this would be to present the American public with the spectacle of Senator Obama being rhetorically clubbed like a baby harp seal; the only real question is whether Senator Clinton would make him cry first. It's virtually diabolical the way this is set up, in fact. From the elimination of the support structure that Obama's depended on in his campaign to date, to the careful linking of the event to one of the most well-known of (if not well-known) events in American political history, this entire scenario is a trap - and because it's a trap designed to puncture the far too-inflated public opinion of the target, Senator Obama has no real winning way out of this. Accept, and look the fool; decline, and look the coward.
Mind you, in this case the coward's choice is also superficially the smart choice. I'm figuring that they'll have him run away from this; it probably won't hurt him too badly in North Carolina, after all. The problem is, though, that he can't run away from us, in the general election. Or, rather, he can - except that Obama's already trying to run away from his current status as a fairly typical liberal politician, and the only direction away from that is smack dab into Senator John McCain.
So he might as well get it over with. Who knows? Maybe Senator Clinton will get hit with a meteorite.
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Clinton to Obama: Come out and debate me. If you're man enough, that is. [Update: He's declined.] 52 Comments (0 topical, 52 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
This would be a great way for them to settle things and prepare for the real thing in the fall - cage match - pass the popcorn.
Empty suit means no courage also?
Something like this
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
There won't be anymore debates between Obama and Clinton, no matter what happens. After the ABC debat-cle, I'm sure he's thinking that it's all risk and no reward for him...that he needs to cast Clinton as a defeated candidate, one not worthy of granting a debate.
And that may be a good decision for him, we'll have to wait and see. It's certainly the most obvious position for him to have at this stage of the game.
But it may also backfire -- understanding that his audience (and hers) right now isn't so much voters as it is uncommitted superdelegates.
His last debate performance, it's no secret, left a lot to be desired. It showed that he has trouble deflecting the sorts of criticisms that (maybe? hopefully?) will be coming from McCain...regarding Ayers, etal.
I might be wary, if I was him, of leaving the last impression of me in a competitive setting before the superdelegates make their final decision the one on the stage in Philadelphia. I might want another shot to get the mojo back...because the momentum's clearly with HRC, even if it's unlikely to be enough in certain important metrics.
But, clearly, he's thinking that he needs to cast himself as the frontrunner...let her demand the debates, and he be the one to say she ain't worthy of being on the same stage as him.
... we are TIRED of those @#$%^^ debates!
With malice towards none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see right.
Watching Obama give his "walleye fish out of water" impression whenever he's in even a neutral media setting is highly entertaining.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
I am humbled by your presence...I have visited your sports blog and I'm afraid to say its deserted..

ohh..sorry sorry sorry..no disrespect intended. I have a picture of you on my bathroom wall.ohh...no no no no....we dont use it as a bathroom. But anyways...I would ask of you, permission to (head bowing down) post a Sports blog..(gulp)..here tommorrow (if I feel like it)...please please...Because your so hansome..and tall...and Tan! And the Joke about the Wall-eye is making my sides hurt....
/Brown-nosing finished
"40 million American households with guns are generally happier
than those people in households that don't have guns."
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Oh wait, they do.
It shows how long you spent reading my site though. These days I only make the occasional sports post, instead of what I did in the past which was post about every Dodgers and Lakers game.
Most of the site is just RS cross posts and video game talk. Mostly just the RS cross posts though.
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
n/t
"40 million American households with guns are generally happier
than those people in households that don't have guns."
That's deserted right now because the bulk of the participants are football fans.
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
n/t
Wuss Wuss Wuss Wuss Wuss.
HTML Help for Red Staters
"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
but wuss.
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
He should really do this, and they should play the song "just the 2 of us". that would be good. he is too liberal she is too conservative. why can't we all just get along. no really if you are a democrat you should be happy with either. some reason many dislike Hillary when it seems they would dislike Obama more, because of lack of experience, and certain remarks.
however he really needs to do this debate, b/c what else does he have to lose. she can take it but he makes it look like he can't. do we need that kind of president that can't handle the heat or pressure? also if you REALLy think about it..... is it now very ironic that his name is obama and the only difference between obama and osama is the b&s. really i was just typing and realized that, and that would be strange considering our president had the same last name except one letter difference as the most wanted terrorist in America. i actually like him, and get mad when people say stuff like that, but it is wierd. get it bs? thats ironic.
Knowing his or her vote is not really going to matter - it's up to the party hacks.
Anyhow, for Obama now, discretion is the better part of valor---Herbert today was right on the money, he's hemorrhaging cred & just trying to run out the clock.
Politics 101: Never consent to additional debates when you're ahead...period. Since Senator Obama is leading by every legitimate metric, he would indeed be an idiot for consenting.
Btw - Newsflash: Ms. Clinton is Not. Going. To. Win.
I can understand the MSM wanting to elevate what is normally a dry political process into Primary X-treme!. What happened here is just more lame realpolitik wanking by an amateur.
---
PS: It's pretty ironic you would mock Obama for not being able to handle a debate, seeing as how you guys immediately ban anyone who doesn't demonstrate sufficient fealty to today's wind direction.
PPS: 28% and falling...
...that you be banned instead. Sorry, but fealty is a must!
PPS: What are you going to do on January 21st, 2009? Simply explode? Or just go back to popping zits in your mom's makeup mirror, and letting the world go by on its own as though you didn't really matter to anybody? Wait, did I say "as though" in that sentence? Because it was completely unnecessary.
fealty- Talk about a word that can only be used in context once a decade.
_____________________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--Aristotle

popping zits in your mom's makeup mirror
Ahh yes...insulting one's mother, a classic debate tactic.
letting the world go by on its own as though you didn't really matter to anybody?
WTF does that even mean? Would you like me guess?
One hopes that this wasn't a significant life event for him.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Do a goggle search with 'mass mouth'...I may be wrong but it looks like he blew up his own site with his foolishness....crowds always love a good wreck
For God's sake, this is Redstate. We expect more out of our spammers!
=)
I mean what kind of pain must there be behind this ?
Is it the stress of seeing what was supposed to be your day slip away ? The only thing you can do is watch and impotently cry out "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" ?
Or is the slow dawning realization that the cause you have pledged yourself to, is not what you thought it was ?
Just what is it that drives you come here and try to bother people that will only think you ludicrous ?
Please before you start to foam at the mouth, take advantage of the community mental programs that are available to you.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
BTW- newsflash: Mr. Obama is not going to win the general election. Some democrats are so sure he has won the democratic nominee but that means nothing. He cannot carry the large states needed to win the general election, and that is a problem. You think Hillary has been nasty toward him, just wait until the republicans get their chance and bring up new stuff that senator clinton has left alone. Barack cannot answer tough questions in a debate, b/c he gets uncomfortable when talking about his record, character, and past. He is obviously not the character we need at this time or never for that matter. he needs to do more than win the black vote to win the presidency. or the young vote and also the sexist male vote. there are more union workers, mid-older class voters, RURAL voters (which obama has turned off), catholic/churchgoing than nonchurchgoing, and the list goes on.
it looks like obama has more support b/c he has gotten all the af. american populations and young voters to register for the first time. they are a tiny fraction of the U.S. population. this election is starting to remind me of american idol where you have those trying to sabotage the truth by voting against someone rather than for them. Hillary technically is in the lead now anyhow, but this election has been ruined thanks to not counting two important states. gee i wonder who they'll vote for in nov. they WOn't! their voices were not heard the first time, and their candidate is getting beat by delegates thanks to not counting their votes. she kicked his butt in FL and MI. michigan sure did not even have him on the ballot, but that should tell you something too!
Good idea on the Lincoln-Douglas format. There's been a lot of debates between these folks and the last debate was pretty silly , so I don't know how much more debates are going to add to our knowledge of their positions. Clinton and Obama have similar positions on issues anyway, so I feel that more debates won't add much.
On a side note, since there is no other Republican candidate, maybe McCain can debate himself. He can debate his pre-nominee positions with his current positions on taxes, the environment and immigration. There are more differences there than between Hillary and Barack.
It's not our fault that Senator Obama's flaws become more and more glaring, the longer this contest goes on.
Mind you, it is our fault that we decided not to have a primary meltdown this year, but then again we don't really care if you're annoyed at that.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
I'm not whining. I simply thought the last debate between Obama and Clinton was silly. Judging by the news reports a lot of other American's did to. Maybe they are whiners too?
Not really annoyed about us having a "primary meltdown" either. Since I support McCain (probably a lot more than most folks on red state) and he was my favorite candidate from the get go. And in 2000 for that matter. However, it is clear he changed several of his positions especially on taxes and immigration, since he started running for president. Just pointing out the obvious.
Have a good weekend! Hope where you are its as nice outside as it is here!
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
You don't play nice with the Clintons. Slime them! Hillary wouldn't be talking the Lincoln/Douglas nonsense if Obama went after their utterly corrupt WH record. He thinks he'll pick up votes by staying on the so called high road but sadly that is not the condition of current American politics, dirt pays, dirt wins and nobody offers more opportunities for exploitation than these two freaks.
Hillary is experienced ? In more ways than one. She wants a debate, give her one, with the gloves off ! The whining that takes place afterwards should be exquisite.
"a man's admiration for absolute government is proportinate to the contempt he feels for those around him". Tocqueville
Another thing that obama supporters should worry about.... well the Mccain supporters have not all showed support for him and the republican party b/c they do not have to. They all support him, but knew he'd be their nominee whether they went out to the primaries or not. They knew he would be their nominee. He was far enough ahead of the other repub. nominees. So in November is when they ALL come out. Nominating a republican is much different than nominating a democrat to run in Nov. Obama turns many off except for those not owning a television (young voters out partying, and african american voters do not care).
the truth is that obama is nothing different than any other politician. he is not about change, and the only change he represents is that he is african american. i could think of many other african americans that deserve this chance other than obama. he is not the one. for example.. condoleeza rice, alan keyes, well thats about all except maybe snoop dogg. he'd make a better president than obama! i just can't figure out some of his supporters when he is clearly racist his wife is one of the most racist people i have ever heard speak, but yet some young white voters love him. he does not have your best interests at heart although he may sound like it on camera, but its off camera when he makes those remarks and his life reflects this point. his rev. is racist and ANTI american. how can you listen to such hate against american for 20 years OBAMA? but i guess he cannot answer that since he hasn't. for those saying race is not a factor.... it clearly is african americans go with obama 90% of the time. they are going with him b/c he is the same color not b/c he is the better candidate. the intelligent ones are doing the right thing by going for the better candidate. i kind of hope he is elected so he can show all of his supporters what a mistake they have made!
what i meant to say is that LIBERAL african americans do not care about politics. they never have. only when an african american is running. where have they been before now? race is clearly an issue. you can disagree but it is the truth, numbers do not lie. in the past these handful of voters have never casted a vote, and know nothing about politics. Now they have a candidate that is the same color and all of the sudden they care???????? HIS own wife proves my point! "For the first time I am proud to be an American"
Whether you agree with them or not, LIBERAL African-Americans care about politics just as much as most Americans; Black, Brown or White, liberal, moderate or conservative.
Indeed, using the silly standard that you evidently proffer -- that because Black voter turnout is higher this year than in previous then only this year have they begun to care about politics -- then White conservatives still don't care about politics.
Face the facts, in 2008 liberals of whatever amount of melanin in their skin have been registering and voting in greater numbers and percentages than ever before. And they have been registering and voting in higher numbers and percentages than conservatives. Using your silly reasoning, does this "prove" that conservatives (and Whites) still don't care about politics or just care less than liberals (and African-Americans)?
you are exactly right. that is why obama needs to do this debate to show that he cares about politics, and answering the tough questions Hillary and the rest of America need answered.
obama is a whiny baby and that is the truth. you don't hear senator clinton whining about how tough questions are or that everyone is ganging up on her when clearly they have. he can't stand heat or pressure but he wants to be the president of the usa??????? lol.
Obama IS a whiner, and SO IS HILLARY! Don't track mud on the floor, and PLEASE don't think you can get away with leaving droppings without being called on it.

wierd thing is i actually probably agree with you on many issues that are important to our country. i am not that liberal at all actually. i just feel on the democratic side of it, hillary is definitely the better choice. i am a red democrat and a blue republican as i like to say.
n/t
"40 million American households with guns are generally happier
than those people in households that don't have guns."

I used to believe in McCain. Then I went to DKos and my heart went out to Obama. Now back at RS I can't believe I ever supported him.
Moral: Politics will always be...politics.
Can you explain why?
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
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I would actually watch a debate, rather than the mutual pressers to which we've grown accustomed.
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.