Redstate

This is a different crazy preacher whose endorsement McCain sought. Falwell is the third one.

As for Falwell, he was dead and buried long before the McCain resurrection.
But you can keep trying.
Why don't you go on over and research Johnny Mac's real pastor and get back with us about all those hate-speech sermons he has delivered. Please, enlighten us.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

Apparently he attends North Phoenix Baptist Church. I don't know anything about them, and I don't really care.

It's good to know that it doesn't matter whose endorsement you seek as long as you don't attend their church for 20 years, though.

There is a difference in seeking or accepting a political endorsement from someone and allowing them to guide you spirtually for two decades. If the Dems persist in pushing this issue, it will make the Obama-Wright ties look all that more secure.

If the Democrats or the MSM try to push this story, it will only serve to keep Rev Wright in the news and in people's minds. That can't be good for Obama.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

that would be a non-story?

....because regardless of Hagee/Parsley's statements vis a vis Muslims, they are not even close to being in the same league as Louis Farrakhan.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

I'd love to hear the difference. Other than the fact that Farrakhan is black Muslim, while Hagee and Parsley are white Christians, and they preach hate against different groups of people (although they all agree about the gays), I fail to see distinction.

The distinction that I see is that Farrakhan and Wright are blatantly racist, while Hagee and Parsley's positions are not racist. Religiously intolerant maybe. I would have to listen to more of their material to understand if they were calling for the government eliminating their religion or if they are calling for the conversion of their adherents to Christianity.

(to the point of calling for the American government to destroy Muslims [Parsley] and blaming Jewish "rebellion" for the Holocaust [Hagee]): OK

Racially intolerant: Not OK

Glad I'm up to speed.

...and he essentially gave the same answer Obama did: that he repudiates their remarks and doesn't agree with everything they say. The Farrakhan thing hasn't really gone anywhere, and neither will Hagee/Parsley.

Obama had to be more forceful with Farrakhan than McCain did with Hagee/Parsley because Farrakhan is a well-known racist who is pariah to the vast majority of Americans. Hagee & Parsley don't have that same reputation, even if some of the things they have said are out of line.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

Obama on Farrakhan: "I have been very clear in my denunciation. I did not solicit his support." When asked if he rejects in addition to denouncing, after poking fun at the idea that there is a difference, he said that, if there is, then "I would reject and denounce."

McCain on Hagee: "They are supporting my candidacy, I am not endorsing some of their positions. In no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee's views, which I obviously do not."

McCain on Parsley: *crickets* (Despite your assertion, he has never addressed Parsley's hateful comments. Unless "I don't agree with everyone who supports me" covers all endorsements, past, present, and future no matter how insane the endorser might be.)

And the only reason Hagee and Parsley don't have that reputation is because they are crazy white Christians instead of crazy black Muslims. It has nothing to do with their level of insanity relative to Farrakhan's.

Yeah right, just like he never heard Jeremiah spew his hate.
He might be able to honestly say he has not sought his support FOR THIS ELECTION, but I have a very hard time believing he hasn't given the old wink,wink, nod, nod to Uncle Louis in the past.

Look, you will never convince me that Obama sitting in the church of crazy for 20 years is even remotely equivalent to McCain's endorsements.

But hey, you guys can keep bringing this up well into November. I just don't think it will be a winning issue with all those rural, bitter, white voters clinging to their guns, God, and bigotry.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

that Obama must have solicited Farrakhan's support at some point. And that, plus that fact that Obama's preacher was Jeremiah Wright, makes it O.K. that McCain actively sought out the support of crazy hate-mongers (in reality, rather than in c17wife's imagination).

My premise is that McCain's endorsements are vastly different than Obama's pew parked butt.
As for him not soliciting Farrakhan, who really knows? What I do know is that Farrakhan is part of the shady Chicago political arena and Obama is a prolific liar, so I take his denial with a big 'ole grain of seasalt.
But please, do encourage your party to keep bringing up the issue. Obama will be so thankful.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

I heard that Obama went to a MUSLIM school in Indonesia. I know that he has been a Christian for over 20 years and that he denies ever being a Muslim, but there's something kind of "Muslim-y" about him. I know there's no proof or anything, but I take his denials with a big 'ole grain of seasalt.

Also, I heard that Hillary ate a baby one time, and you know, she just has a "baby-eater" look about her. Once again, just a hunch.

You are probably partially right. This is, after all a majority white/Christian nation. Farrakhan is much further out of the mainstream than Hagee/Parsley. Whether that's right or wrong is up for discussion, but it is what it is.

The Farrakhan issue won't go anywhere, just like the Hagee/Parsley issue won't either. The Rev Wright issue will probably dog Obama throughout the campaign because of reasons already laid out.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

Of course McCain won't denounce Hagee or Parsely. He needs to crazy fundamentalist vote to win. And of course it won't have any impact on him, because Republicans will ignore the crazy fundamentalists, as usual, and Democrats will be too afraid of getting labeled as "anti-religious" if they point out how crazy some Christian fundamentalists are.

All I was looking for was an acknowledgment of the double standard.

in the Rapture or at least get pounded by a huricane.

There may be a double standard. There are double standards in every facet of our society. There was a double standard when Obama referred to his grandmother as a "typical white person". Can you imagine if McCain referred to someone as a "typical black person"? Can you imagine if John McCain referred to David Duke as his spiritual advisor? What if John McCain attended a church where David Duke was a preacher for 20 years? What if John McCain donated $50,000 to a white supremacist church? Can you imagine if John McCain did that? His candidacy would be over. He would have no political future. There's a serious double standard. Obama is the beneficiary of most of them.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

a nanosecond of play compared to
Wright, Hagee, and Parsley.
Obama denounced Farrakhan's positions, as did McCain in both cases.

Look, your guy has spent the better part of his adult life in a church that believes it should have a seperate society and theology from mainstream Christian Americans. And that pledges allegiance to the motherland of Africa.

You can try all you want to equate the situations, but it ain't gonna work. Keep it up and you guys truly will split your party in half.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

But when Farrakhan endorsed Obama (who didn't seek it by the way), he got grilled about it in a debate and he renounced him and rejected the endorsement.

McCain, however, sought out both endorsements (plus Falwell's prior to his death), and when he was asked about it he said, "Just because someone endorses me doesn't mean I agree with all of their positions."

I'm not trying to compare this to Wright. Wright is its own issue. The analogy here is Farrakhan. Obama rejects the endorsements of crazy people, while McCain seeks them out.

Falwell did overreach at times, but he was not a nut.

Farrakhan's followers talk about his spaceship for gosh sakes.

Some of my personal favorites:

So paranoid about homosexuality that he called Tinky-Winky gay.
Said 9/11 was God's punishment against the gays and others.
Claimed AIDS was God's punishment against the gays.
Called homosexuals "brute beasts" and said that when they are annihilated there will be a "celebration in heaven."
Claimed that the (Jewish) anti-Christ would appear within 10 years (in 2009, only a year to go!).
Produced a documentary which claimed that President Clinton orchestrated the deaths of journalists and confidants.

You won't get any defense for Farrakhan out of me, but Falwell was insane as well.

and equate them with the character of the man. He's done so much good for the community.
Obama's words regarding Wright. Don't see why we can't use them as well.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

The defense of both men is hollow.

To liberals, their guy is always defensible.
No matter how hateful and racist.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

defend Parsley, Hagee and Falwell. I'm not excusing the liberals in any way, I'm just saying that our side needs to clean house too.

I am not defending anyone. Wright is a nut, Obama was right to denounce him and wrong to stay in his church if that's what he was preaching from the pulpit. Farrakhan is a nut, Obama was right to denounce him.

Hagee and Parsley are nuts. McCain was wrong to seek their endorsements, and will be right if he ever denounces them and rejects the endorsements he sought.

If I were defending Obama sitting in Wright's church, then I would be using a double standard.

Your insistence that McCain's seeking out of Hagee and Parsley's endorsements is OK but Obama not renouncing his pastor soon enough is not does smack of a double-standard, though.

Is not the same as having someone officiate at your wedding
baptize your children
or spend Sunday Mornings with for 20 years.

If that doesn't get through someone needs to drop a 16 tonne weight on you because you're into self parody.

and I'm not comparing Hagee/Parsley to Wright. I'm comparing them to Farrakhan. If you can honestly say that you would not have criticized Obama had he sought out and accepted Farrakhan's endorsement despite the fact that he might have some "disagreements on some issues" with the man, then fine; you and I just differ on which kind of endorsements one should seek out.

If you would not be OK with Obama seeking out and accepting Farrakhan's endorsement, then you've got a great big double standard. (Unless of course you agree with Hagee and Parsley, in which case I really don't know what to say.)

Just a typical, small town, white girl...

but the comparison is between the unsolicited endorsement Farakhan gave Obama, which Obama rejected and denounced, and the endorsements that McCain sought and received from these unsavory characters, Parsley, Hagee and Falwell. I agree that the Wright relationship is much different and that Obama can't get away from that easily.

Dean's non-stop bleating that the two are one in the same.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

So the question is just what does it take to get Obama to find a different parish. Especially since Oprah dropped trinity like a hot potato.

I'm making a point about McCain and the nut-cakes he now thinks he needs the support of in order to win this election.

I wouldn't want to have to defend Obama's mentors either.

I'd really hate if all I could come up with are insane comparisons and equivalences that aren't even in the same universe of discussion.

who never find fault with their own.

Projection much?

Try using that on one of the McCainiacs. I'm not one and have found much fault with the man. In this case it is just stupid.

I'm not voting for the man and I don't think he can shake his 20 year association with the hateful crackpot Wright just by giving a nice speech. I'm also not directly comparing the intimacy of the Wright/Obama relationship with the purely political relationship McCain has with these other preachers. Now that you can't tar me by associating me with an Obama supporter, perhaps you can comment on my assertion that McCain has made a mistake and has put aside his principles by actively seeking the support of these wacko preachers.

Falwell built a megachurch and founded a university, but when was he ever involved in leading any kind of community work?

Falwell started the Moral majority and got them to do all the grunt work for the conservative wing of the GOP, and registering voters, and was instrumental in getting Ronald Reagan elected.

You might not like that, but it's the truth.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

That's political activism.

Working to get your political views enacted is not the same as "community work." That involves feeding poor people and such.

you obviously hate the guy, but don't pretend he did nothing good in his life.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

I just think that he was mentally off (just like Farrakhan). I pitied him more than anything.

Just a typical, small town, white girl...

1. Jerry Falwell never said anything about Tinky-Winky's sexuality. You might want into that one
2. What he said was that God had protected this country through history, but because of our current acceptance of immorality we should expect God to allow us to be chastised in the same manner as ancient Israel was.
3. You need to cite that
4. Again, a cite
5. About the timing I never heard a particular time frame, but about the Jewish part, if the Messiah is Jewish, is it not expected the anti-Messiah should be Jewish as well?
6. I only vaguely remember him referencing a documentary on the subject...would need more specific information to comment on this fully.

Jerry Falwell was a good man. He was one of the best human beings I've ever met, and honestly cared about the people around him. Look into the Elim home for Alcoholics, the Liberty Godparent Home, and many other ministries.

Tinky Winky is "modelling a gay lifestyle":
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501E5DB123AF936A25751C0A...

9/11: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen."
If you make a major distinction between God punishing America for disobedience and God "allowing us to be chastised" you've got a finer razor than I.

AIDS is God's punishment against the gays:
http://www.milforddailynews.com/opinion/x1987843539

Homosexuals are "brute beasts," etc. (he denied this one, until the video surfaced):
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070528/blumenthal

Falwell's crazy documentary:
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/03/cov_11news.html

Antichrist by 2009 (and Jewish):
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,272936,00.html

Falwell is dead. Falwell Jr. endorsed Huckabee. Neither one of the Falwells qualify as an apples to apples comparison either. Even liberal journalists like Joan Walsh agree. This story doesn't have legs.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

When does it really matter if it is apples to apples for the media? They are going to dumb it down for all Americans.

Ask not what I can do for my country, ask what my country can do for me. Washington Elected Elite

He invited the man to become part of his family. He even said so.
Huge difference.
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Just a typical, small town, white girl...

I am not claiming any moral equivalency per se. It just bothers me that McCain had to go hat in hand to get the support of the folks he rightly, in my opinion, called the "agents of intolerance".

but their church can't. Politicians can come speak at churches about issues facing America or whatnot, but they can't say "Vote for me."

It's a hazy line, and it misuses religion in a way that turns my stomach, but it's technically within the rules.