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Is Gillibrand in trouble in New York?

For those of us who’ve been watching and waiting for this election since November 5th, 2008, it’s pretty safe to say that only the most optimistic Republican activist would predict anything but Doom in New York.  Even the special election to replace Secretary of State Hillary Clinton when it was announced didn’t seem to garner much interest from any major Republicans in the state (if there even is such a thing any more in NY, of course).

In fact, the only person I’ve seen openly discussing a Gillibrand loss is Dick Morris, and while over the past few years Dick has been pretty solidly behind the Republicans, I still have to take a fair bit of what he says with a grain of salt.  After all, it is Dick Morris, and he did work for Bill Clinton.

That said, I think there are several factors coming in to play that may very well result in a “shock” in November, when New York wakes up to Senator DioGuardi, whose name recognition is so high, I had to look it up to make sure I spelled it correctly.

I’ve been thinking along these lines for a while, but something happened over the past few days that clinched it.

Morris has repeatedly talked about Gillibrand getting caught up in the Republican wave, especially one with low voter turnout.  The question was and is, how big is the wave?

This is what caught my attention.  On Sunday, Rasmussen released a poll of the Hawaii election contest between long-time Senator Daniel Inouye, and challenger Cam Cavasso showing the incumbent up by 13 points, 53-40.

What?  That’s it?  A 13 point lead?  And only 53%?

Couple that with Republican Congressman Djou looking as if he’ll keep his seat, and Democratic Gubernatorial candidate (and former holder of said Djou seat) Neil Abercrombie failing to create any kind of meaningful lead in that race (~2 points as it stands today), and you see that certainly in Hawaii, surfs up – the wave is definitely coming.  Enough to defeat Inouye?  Probably not, but still, 53%?

But what does this have to do with New York and Gillibrand?  After all, Hawaii isn’t New York, except perhaps for blindly voting for Democrats for far too long.

Well the wave is only one part of it.  Two other factors are in play in New York, one since the special election was announced, the other only more recently.

New Yorkers are faced with a relatively rare scenario this election.  They get to vote for two Senators on the same day.  People like balance.  Especially if you’re fed up with Washington D.C., but don’t want to elect a Republican because, as we’re all constantly reminded by the inhabitant of the White House, we all know they created the mess.  But New Yorkers get two votes.  People like balance.  One ‘R’, one ‘D’.  Cha-ching!

Think about it: asked by a pollster about the Gillibrand-DioGuardi race, a respondent may say “Gillibrand” as they typically pull the lever for the Democrat.  But faced with two Senate choices in the polling booth (or on the absentee ballot), and, well, that answer will change for some people.  My instinct says 5-20% of the people voting will split their vote.  The question is, 5%?  or 20%?  (As much as I’d like to see “Chuckie” gone, it’s not happening, but we can dream…)

But there’s another factor.  Carl Paladino.  And no, I don’t think DioGuardi is going to be riding any coattails in that race.  But people like balance.  And Paladino is making it real hard for people to vote for him.  Which means more chance of an ‘R’ vote in the Senate races.

Gillibrand is currently polling ~53%.  DioGuardi, ~38%.  15 points.  Sounds a bit like Hawaii, no?  Except in this case, drop the ‘D’ turnout a bit, add in the now-obvious wave, 2 Senate races and a self-imolating Gubernatorial candidate*, and I think she’s in real trouble.

–CWFU

* A man I’d still vote for if I lived there, simply because he is what he is, not what some strategist is telling him to be.

COMMENTS

  • Oz

    I mean even O’Donnell is showing movement in the polls.

    However, I wouldn’t say it’s out of the question.

    • IJB

      I mean, I guess it’s *possible* that NY state will vote as Democrat this year as in a regular presidential year (which is what current polling seems to be showing). But I’m not sure I buy it.

      Part of the problem is that a fair amount of NY polling is from outfits like Siena and Marist, which are outfits I don’t trust very much.

      Anyway, guess we’ll see soon enough…

      • proudgop

        Her 2 ads she has out make her look like a joke. Serious they have to be 2 worse ads I have ever seen.

      • SKully

        right before Paladino lost a lot of credibility with the Fred Dicker incident. Since then she has been double digits.
        But I tend to agree with you about the choice factor. Many NY’s are going to hold their nose voting for Cuomo, which just might make them go the other way in the Senate race.
        The other thing to watch in NY: I still think Paladino will be a big draw for upstate Republicans. The down-ballot effect could turn some House races that no one saw coming. Just today Higgins went from ‘safe’ to ‘likely’ in CD-27. Now if we could only get Slaughter to stumble.

        • SIConservative

          NY is a deep blue state and getting more so. Pataki & Co. ran the state GOP into the ground. We will lose the top-billed races, and Paladino’s implosion could well cost us House seats. Although there are a few tight House races in the state (as an aside, I’d be shocked if more than one of them flipped), the most important battle is for control of the circus that is the state Senate. If Democrats have control in the next session, there is a very good chance that 1) it’ll be decades before Republicans can win it back and 2) they will redistrict the state to ensure a 27-0 House delegation for the next ten years. At this point, the top of the ticket is a distraction at best, and a wrecking ball at worst.

          • distantvoter

            NY 29 is a lock. 19 & 23 are more likely than not to switch. Nate Silver has 24 at a 58% chance of flipping. We should get at least three of those, and very possibly 4.

            There are also decent chances in NY 1, 20, & 25. I don’t think we’re favored in any of them, but we could definitely catch a wave there. 4, 13, and 22 are longshots, but perhaps not impossible (especially if Hinchey keeps opening his mouth and attacking reporters).

            But you are absolutely right about the importance of the Senate. I doubt they can make it 27-0, but they can probably lock down 25-2 or something for the next ten years. This is where Paladino really hurts, and why people MUST get out and vote even with a sure loser at the top of the ticket.

          • SIConservative

            There will be coattails, and long ones. NY-29 is the one I expect to flip. NY-19 is a toss-up, the kind of race that could be determined by weak Republican turnout in the state. Doheny leads in the 23rd, albeit slightly. Bishop, Murphy, and Maffei all hold double-digit leads. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that we can’t win these, which I do more often than a lot of people like here, but I don’t see it happening. Blow outs in the statewide races will be very significant and will severely impair our ability to win down-ballot races.

          • congressworksforus

            New York City came close to dumping Bloomberg in 2009. The exit polls showed him with over 70% approval. The same voters said they voted against him because he removed term limits so he could run again.

            You think people like that don’t think that some balance is required?

            I give people a little more credit than that, even New Yorkers…

          • SIConservative

            I’m not being patronizing here, just explaining. The Mayor of NYC is a unique position, changed dramatically by Giuliani. He’s an administrator, and is hamstrung on taxing and spending by the City Council (45-5 Democrat, with one vacancy).

            I’ll go a step further here to defend my fellow New Yorkers. Many of them are ideological liberals. Just as “balance” wouldn’t be a reason for any of us to vote Democrat, “balance” isn’t a reason for them to vote Republican. They know what they want and the most effective means of achieving it. New Yorkers, at least the liberals among us, don’t want Obama hamstrung by a Republican Congress.

          • congressworksforus

            Look at the details of today’s NYT poll. Conservatives are the majority, even if they aren’t Republicans.

            Just because it’s blue, doesn’t make it liberal blue. Massachusetts is even bluer. Ask Martha Coakley how that worked out for her…

          • powertothepeople

            but it is def not a majority conservative. Unless something has changed no one but you knows about, it is still a state not ruled by a conservative majority. New York is a lot like Michigan, get far enough out of the major cities, conservatism rules. But overall, the state leans left of moderate to liberal.

    • congressworksforus

      That was part of the argument: they’re polling individual races, not the entire ballot. Two Senate elections gives voters a third choice — one of each. That wont show up in polling.

      That, and as another commenter said, the polling in NY is by outfits that are best described as “suspect”.

    • mirac777

      Today on the LMS MSNBC they did a whole session on Gillibrand. They fluffed her up on how she is a great this and that. Yes they said she is a mother who works, a truly amazing woman. On and on with the liberal fluffy stuff without EVER saying just what has she done to deserve to be a US Senator! Not one accomplishment, Just like Hillary all fluff and zero real world accomplishments. Tell me this. How many women in this country work and have children? MILLIONS yet does that qualify them to be a Senator? Lets add in the fact that elitests dont raise theri children, Nannies do. Just take a serious look at the very dysfunctional Chelsea Clinton and you will see what I mean.

      I close with another question: Do all former cheerleaders who never actually worked a day in their lives , qualify to be in the US Senate? Shes basically a manufactured Politician, a Socialist Democrat as 98% of them are today.I am sick and tired of people who cant speak on the issues without reading from a teleprompter or piece of paper written by someone else! How flipping phoney is that? Like Obama having to read from a paper about howTeddy the drunk was his mentor! All phony b/s artists begging for the taxpayers money.

  • distantvoter

    Remember the time difference. If it’s a huge wave, then by mid-afternoon in Hawaii everyone will know it.

    If the House has flipped, if the Senate has already flipped, if Reid and Boxer and Frank are gone, if the Republicans have already won more than 60 seats, what is the impact on those who are just heading out to vote?

    If they are going to vote D, they may just be discouraged and stay home. And if they are undecided, it can cause them to push the R button since that’s what everyone else is doing.

    You don’t get that kind of impact in New York, because they vote first. But that kind of factor might make a difference of a percent or two on the West Coast, and maybe even a little more in Hawaii. If Cavasso can close up within 5-6 points, it could get very interesting.

    I’m surprised some of these big money outside expenditure groups haven’t been targeting the Hawaii and Oregon Senate races. The media buy isn’t that expensive, relatively, and if you can put them even remotely in play, who knows what happens in a wave election, especially in the later time zones?

    • congressworksforus

      Today showed Gillibrand with a 25 point lead.

      But here’s the caveat. It’s 50-25.

      Those 25 “undecideds” are ripe for 1 ‘D’ and 1 ‘R’, and there will be some in her 50% who’ll do the same thing.

      She’s far more vulnerable than anyone realizes.

      And yes, I think there’s a shot in Hawaii given that Abercrombie was supposed to run away with the Governor’s race (he polled over 60% in his last three House races) and yet he’s basically tied, but unseating Inouye? That’s a Tsunami, not a wave :-)

      Oregon is much, much harder because it’s all mail-in ballots which makes “depressed voters” on election day pretty much a non issue.

      • distantvoter

        I forgot the mail-in thing in Oregon. I still think that could be made somewhat competitive with a big push, but it isn’t happening, and it probably would have to be happening now.

        And you are right about Gillibrand’s relatively low numbers. But the thing is, assuming the poll is accurate, those 25 just aren’t going to break more than 4-1 for us. The “incumbent” rule isn’t absolute, and she doesn’t have the normal incumbency position, anyway. So even with ticket splitting and undecideds breaking, the best we could really hope for is 55/45.

        Which means someone needs to get on the air advertising big time to flip at least a few of her supporters. Flip 3% from D to R, and drive up her negatives so maybe 2-3% of her current supporters don’t vote, and you might have some hope. If it’s 45-30 with 25% undecided, we can begin to think there’s a chance. But if it is really 50-25, the only way would be if someone has about $50 million to drop on advertising in the next week and a half.

        Or unless there’s pictures of her and Spitzer. But I’d rather not win that way — that damages the country even when it takes out a Democrat.

        • congressworksforus

          From the NYT poll:

          Generally speaking, do you usually consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent, or what?

          Republican 17
          Democrat 44
          Independent 30
          DK/NA 8

          Now, I am no expert on New York, but that poll seems awfully tilted in favor of the Democrats…

          • distantvoter

            Well, we’ll see what happens.

            Here’s one other reason for hope. The fact that there are so many competitive House races will drive conservative and Republican turnout in a lot of districts, even if the Senate and Statehouse races look bad. And even in races where people may not have much hope, a lot of conservatives are still highly motivated to vote, to send a message across the board.

            Even if you know you can’t win in your district, if the Democrat who usually wins by 30 only wins by 10, you’ve sent a message there, too. And I think a lot of people will have that attitude.

            I don’t think Paladino is going to suppress conservative turnout, at all. So keep hoping!

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