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Inside the Pee Party: One Striking, Glaring Truth about College Tuition…

For a bunch of folks that sit around, copulate, defecate and expectorate, they sure do have a bunch of lusty, active demands: “Destroy the Greedy Banks!”, “Punish the Eco-Defilers!”, “Give Everyone Money!” the “Occupy” crowd yells incessantly.

But one demand is striking, given that “education” has, for years, been the touchstone as the entree to the American Dream: “Free College Education” the “occupiers” are demanding. Why would a “movement” that eschews the capitalist, materialist vision of America want a college degree, when it seemingly is only a step up the ladder to a bourgeoisie existence?

For a movement completely bereft of coherence, this takes the cake. But, it underscores a very real, very dangerous reality: The entire framework of American higher education is out of economic whack, and we are graduating entire populations unable to pay off the loans they took out to pay for that education. It is weird in the extreme.

The Readers Digest condensed version is this: Student loans, and other forms of publicly financed college tuition assistance has created a massive, mammoth welfare education ghetto that consists not only of the indentured students they graduate, but the vast administrative state created to sustain it.

When my mother attended Michigan State College (-later, Michigan State University) in 1946, it cost $3 per credit hour to attend. The average yearly wage in the United States that year was $2,100. It cost roughly 6% of an average yearly wage to attend, at the in-state rate, Michigan State.

By 1971, twenty-five years later, (-the first year my oldest brother started attending MSU), that tuition rate had increased six fold, to $17 dollars per credit, or about $680 per school year. The average wage in the United States that year was $10,500, so the percentage cost of the tuition, vis-a-vis this wage was still 6%. Even though federally guarenteed Student Loans in the private market had only been available since 1966, costs had begun to spike even at this early date.

Now, forty years later, that $680 yearly tuition has skyrocketed to $35,475; — nearly 84% of the average wage in the United States, which aggregates at $43,550. This is not only obscene, it represent probably the biggest consumer fraud in American history.

That first year my mother attended MSC, there was one administrative position for every 110 teaching positions. The size of the campus was the same size as today, and its total student population was a little under 15,000. It had Jennison Field House, an ice arena, world-class biological labs, student housing, and so on. There were practically no teaching assistants, and most professors taught students. A large minority of these professors were part-time. By the time my brother started attending, there was one administrator overseeing 35 teaching positions. Today, that ratio has ballooned to 1:3.

The reason that 40 years of Democrat party hegemony in Academia has been crucial is because of this: It has become the biggest client-state of government sponsored jobs welfare. There are roughly 14,000 employees at Michigan State (it is the second largest employer behind the State of Michigan in the metro Lansing area);  Many of these are full professors of studies that didn’t exist 20 or 30 years ago, creating degree programs so obscure as to be unrecognizable to any real-world educational paradigm.

Young folks have been instructed endlessly that the most effective ticket to achieving the American Dream was an advanced education. Perhaps. But not anymore. We need to seriously address the fraud that exists in American Higher Education, and the sheer populations and amounts of edu-crats, teaching assistants, and phony degrees is a place to start.

In this realm, the Pee Party has a legitimate gripe. But, once again, their anger should be focused at the Democrats in Washington and elsewhere.

COMMENTS

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    have indeed run from the idea that they are places of higher learning, teaching useful skills to the best and brightest. They are now places run by and for administrators and generally teach not much that could be referred to as “useful”.

    • conservativecurmudgeon

      It is a serious issue, as you clearly understand, that needs to at least be discussed. I understand it is not unusual for a recent medical school graduate, or early resident, to wind up with nearly a third-of-a-million dollar debt– piled on top of malpractice insurance premiums that gobble up another quarter mil for a million dollars worth of coverage, before they ever get to bill a patient.

      This is seriously, seriously messed up. I won’t even go into the graduates of such colleges as “materials and logistics management” that come out over one-hundred and fifty grand in debt, and are lucky to land jobs that pay $40,000 a year now.

      Just as government created a housing bubble, it has now created an education bubble, that is in the process of bursting.

  • aesthete

    First of all, remove government from the equation. At most, government should be providing some subsidy (Pell Grants and such) to private institutions, not controlling higher ed’s labor or curricula standards.

    Having established that, eliminated any program that ends in “Studies”, or that begins with, “Womens’ “, “Black”, “Hispanic/Chicano”, “Native American”, or any ethnic/socioeconomic indicator.

    Refuse to hire any professor who hasn’t either spent time in the private (read: non-academic) sector, or who cannot not find a job offer from a private employer within a reasonable period of time. If the private sector does not recognize the value of a professor, it is unlikely that his students will.

    On that note, end tenure and establish academic posts as either at-will employment positions or renewable contract-based positions.

    End Title IX requirements for sports. Sports lose money for universities primarily because a university funding an all-male football or basketball team is required by law to do the same for female teams. Make university sports fun and profitable again by ending this absurd requirement. (University sports deserves its own diary, but I digress.)

    Use technology to make instruction and classes less labor-intensive.

    Either end tax breaks for academic institutions or reform them such that they can be applied easily to the great variety of emergent and alternative ways to pursue higher education.

    • SKully

      I liken this to many civil rights issues – one thing Title IX did is even up some expenditures, and not just for college. Except for Cheerleading, there were very few high school sports available for girls in the 70′s – 80′s, and now they are abundant. This was a wrong that needed to be righted. Like it or not, females HAVE been discriminated against and laws were needed to fix it. If those laws have outgrown their use due to societal changes, then they can be repealed.

      I agree with your need for another diary on sports, but I think it needs to be not just for Universities. Several new diaries can be written about education funding – what is and is not part of the public ‘need’.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        interscholastic sports as opposed to intercollegiate sports. Why should schools be paying huge sums for traveling teams for sports that lose money and the vast majority of students do not participate in. Spend less money on interscholastic sports, expand the population who participate by a factor of probably a hundred.

        And, I’m a firm believer in shutting down big time college football as it is today. There is virtually no such thing as a student athlete, just athletes who attend college on scholarship and can’t deal with real academic majors. Let the NFL – and the NBA for that matter – either start a farm system or pay the schools and let the schools admit football players, pay them and let them go to class at the local community college or not at all.

        I listen to professional players being interviewed and it’s obvious most of them couldn’t deal with a decent fourth grade curriculum let alone what should be university level academics.

        • SKully

          Opportunities, NOT mandates. And again, NOT just for universities. This stuff starts earlier than that.
          We need to re-think education as a whole. What should be minimum requirements, what is optional. What is for the ‘public good’ (ie, taxpayer funded) and what is not.
          I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I have way too many bad experiences in my (and my kid’s) childhoods to shut up anymore.

          I’m in the midst of college hunting for my 3rd child, and I can’t believe how much tuition has gone up. Meanwhile, I see complete financials on others and what the ‘state’ is giving them based on the school’s jacked up financial costs. No wonder why me and my kid are going to pay top dollar, and she will go to the lesser college or be in financial ruin for 1/2 her productive years.

        • Xasteius
          • rightwingmom52

            Of course, why do they have a girl and a female teach in the video anyway? They don’t play football.

            And…………Roll Tide!

      • http://whattoreadtoday.blogspot.com/ Paula

        has been one of the most wide-reaching government power grabs in history. Schools are completely at the mercy of the myriad of rules and regulations governing every dime that is spent on every locker room that is painted and every baseball field that is lined. Sports like men’s gymnastics have virtually disappeared on college campuses (there are perhaps a dozen left in the entire country) due to quotas. The same with a host of other men’s teams like swimming, wrestling, tennis, etc. The quotas are so strict that they won’t allow a men’s team to self-fund because the head-counts will be off.

        You can blame the men’s football and basketball programs if you like, but they bring in the big bucks for many of these schools, keeping the other programs afloat. The blame lies in the big-government social engineers that decided that there needed to be exactly the same number of male athletes as female athletes, regardless of their actual interest in sports.

        • SKully

          Like all public funding, this degenerates into the blame game. The blame does not lie in that :

          ‘big-government social engineers that decided that there needed to be exactly the same number of male athletes as female athletes, regardless of their actual interest in sports.’

          but in that big government decided to put ANY $$ into these in the the first place, years ago. Once they did that, then it needed to be done regardless of gender.

          The disparity still exists, but no one calls it out. Again, I’m not looking at just collegiate, but high schools and earlier. Fields, ice rinks, pools, tennis courts, etc availability ALL revolve around the traditional men’s schedule. Women’s sports are still evolving, but they are limited by the parameters set 80+ years ago.

          Pull ALL public funding out of it, let the parents duke it out, and see what wins.

    • rightwingmom52

      At Alabama, ticket sales for the football games not only fund that program, but all other sports as well. They are not funded through tuition. I think Coach Saban’s salary is funded through ticket sales and alumni donations, but I know it isn’t paid through tuition. I’m not sure, but I’d bet this is true for most universities that have very competitive teams (i.e., most SEC teams).

      Like most things in life, this may not be fair, but in these instances, the schools actually benefit from the football programs.

      • rightwingmom52

        . . .

      • aesthete

        Depending on the college, it can be very profitable, and is a great booster for the school. ATM, it isn’t all that profitable because it is tethered to other losing sports, like womens’ basketball or whathaveyou.

      • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

        is unique. The vast majority of big time sports programs are big time money losers.

        • Repair_Man_Jack

          Maybe the comptrollers are as drunk as the alums on Homecoming Day.

        • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

          Can be found here.

          This is from a posting by a Prof. of Computer Science at Berkely…

          Glenn Dickey

  • http://whattoreadtoday.blogspot.com/ Paula

    The Dems long ago began pushing the idea that everyone”deserved” a college education as a “right.” Schools – state schools- were forced to lower their standards so that everyone could get in.

    The truth is, not everyone needs a college education .Some people are perfectly happy and gifted in the arts, construction, automotive repair….dozens of fields that do not require one to study the classics or algebra at a government-approved university. The whole idea of a government-approved education is a joke.

    I happen to believe that studying the classics, religion, history and a wide range of subjects (my husband is still trying to convince me about the benefits of algebra in real life) is beneficial and even necessary to decent and fulfilled life. But we live in a day and age when all of those subjects are available with a few keystrokes or a touch of our iPhone. We don’t need to depend on the government to teach us what or how to think.

    So your argument about the high cost of a college education is especially true in light of that fact. However, part of the problem lies with employers who continue to insist upon an expensive piece of paper as a ticket to employment.

    Even backing that up, in some states, homeschool grads have had problems obtaining employment in jobs that required government permits (daycare workers, law enforcement) because they didn’t have a state-approved high school diploma.

    That said, we have begun to see a sea-change in education in the past 20 years. Millions of successful homeschoolers have demonstrated that schooling can be successful outside of the government classroom. Online classes at both the secondary and college level have pushed the boundaries and made college more affordable. “Non-traditional education” is no longer a dirty word.

    Schools like Hillsdale College are thumbing their noses at the government regulations. In addition to refusing to participate in the federal student aid (including student loan) programs, last year, they pulled out of Michigan’s state teacher certification program because of the burdensome regulations and costs. It’s a start and I hope more schools will find the courage to follow suit.

    • norris

      The federal government has assumed all educational loans,soon they will decide which subjects are worth funding.

  • valrobex

    My wife and I have five children. Three have college degrees, two sons do not.

    One of the two has an extremely high paying job in the computer field. He attended college but quit because he knew more than the PhD instructors and obviously didn’t need a degree. His skills are in tremendous demand and entirely self taught.

    Our other son delivers pizzas and makes more money than his wife who is a full time RN at a major hospital. He’s self educated and can’t justify “buying” a degree. There’s no job out there that will increase his income sufficiently enough to justify the prohibitive expense (and debt) of a 4 yr degree. I couldn’t agree more.

    Our college system has oversold the importance of college degrees. Degrees might be necessary in some technical fields, (chemistry, medicine, etc.) but I’m finding it harder and harder to justify a college education today. I have an office manager whose contribution is based on her work ethic and effort, not her Master’s degree.

    My recommendation to any small (or large) business employer is to place more emphasis on your new higher as an individual and what they bring to the table and less on their degree(s). Keep in mind that neither Lincoln nor Jesus ever attended college and look at what they contributed to the world.

    • powertothepeople

      You are showing cases that are exceptions to the rules, not the normal. Most computer jobs require degrees and continuing education, your sons luck is not the norm. I could care less how much he knew or if he did know more than the teachers, first it shows he has an arrogance that he knows it all and second, the lack of a degree will most likely come back to bite him. Most companies do want experience as you state, but they also want to see the degree.

      And most pizza delivery guys do not make what you claim your son is making. You just seem to have very lucky sons but they better pray the luck always continues.

      The problem with many so called higher degrees is the idiots who chose the major. They go to school to party or to play and take nonsense courses that do not help them in the real world but that is not a reflection on the need for as much education as possible.

      By the way, Lincoln was quite educated and in fact was a card carrying member of the bar association. Different times than now, but even Lincoln recognized the need for an education. And to bring Jesus and his life into as an example for your argument really shows no one should take your advice seriously.

      • http://whattoreadtoday.blogspot.com/ Paula

        But why do computer jobs require degrees? Do you really need a bachelor’s degree to program a computer? Can it be taught at a 2-year tech school? Just because a company requires that degree doesn’t mean it is “necessary” for the job.

        My husband has been in the IT field for 10+ years at a Fortune 500 company (he’s a senior systems analyst/programmer). He recently checked out the computer science/IT programs of many colleges and universities in the area and out of state. Many of the programs had almost nothing to do with what is actually happening in the IT field currently. They are teaching basic programming skills, but sometimes using programs that are outdated. While it’s good to learn the skills, a student with a BA or BS in computer science coming out of those programs wouldn’t necessarily have entry-level job skills in that field.

        My son’s friend is in a reputable CS program where he’s required to write his programs out by hand on notebook paper. My son had to do that in his C class as well (he’s a CS minor at a liberal arts school). Things like that may be fun to practice (not really) but they just have no practical application for the real world.(and especially frustrating for the dyslexic kid!!)

        FWIW, my husband doesn’t have a degree. He took a few computer programming classes and taught himself the rest, mostly on the job.His job description says the job requires a 4-year degree. However, Y2K came along and suddenly the degree thingy wasn’t all that important. They just needed people who knew their stuff.

        • powertothepeople

          Just so I do not get a slew of people coming in telling me of some success story who made it without a degree, I know they exist. But like it or not, it is the exception to the rule.

          There are a ton of reasons why companies want degrees. One reason is they want someone who has proven themselves to being committed. Are there some out there who are just as reliable and committed who do not have degrees, yes. But they are the exception.

          Are some schools teaching outdated material, I am sure there are. Can some people simply teach themselves all they need to know about a certain subject, yes. But the reality of this technological world and global marketplace is that if you want the best chance at success, you need as much higher learning as you can get. In fact, when I graduated from college years ago, a simply four year degree gave you an advantage over a majority of people applying for the same job. Now it takes a masters or doctorate to have the advantage.

          The reality of education is that to avoid labor heavy jobs and to have a shot at the big bucks and serious promotions, you need the degree. Some will make it without it, most will not. And for anyone, especially a parent like the guy above, to state that college is no longer needed shows a real lack of understanding about the business world, shows a serious lack of common sense, and shows that they do not need to ever be a counselor of the young.

          • johnconradarens

            But, conservative curmudgeon has an important point, too: How much sense does it make to end up so far behind the eightball in terms of your earning power with a degree TODAY.

            But, if your goal is simply to further your education, without regard to the employment side of the picture, then a college degree is as important as ever. Looking at strictly the earning power, though, it doesn’t make nearly the sense it did even twenty years ago; that is simply a hard, cold fact.

          • powertothepeople

            the problem is not the cost although it has gotten high, it is the majors the kids are taking today. You will pay the same for a business degree as you will a fluff degree, yet the fluff degree will make you a burger flipper with a piece of paper.

            Not going to keep arguing reality with a few of you. We live in a technological world that is becoming more and more technical as we speak. Can a person get a job without a degree or even make it big without a degree, yes but the reality of this world is that it takes higher education and continuing education to make it in the business world and to have a chance at decent pay.

            I can agree that the cost of an education has become very high, but that still does not negate the fact that without a real degree in a viable field, the chances you will make a decent living and have promotion opportunities is slim.

            You should really take a look at the earning power of a degree versus only a high school diploma/drop out. It would demonstrate the need for as much education in a real world field.

          • johnconradarens

            An acquaintance of mine graduated three years ago from a small private college in Ohio, with a degree in “International Business”. She studied for nearly a year at the American University in Paris, and minored in French. She is very accomplished.

            Last year, she was hired by JB Hunt Intermodal starting at $38,000. Subsequently, they laid off some of her co-workers, and she says she feels lucky to still have a job, even though she’s not seen a raise since the day she was hired. Her total student loan debt (which, as of now, her father is paying for her) is somewhere around $100,000. If she’s like most of her friends, she will quit her job (now that she’s married) when the kids start coming, and there she’ll be: with a $100,000 debt, and no way to pay it. If she stuck with the job, and paid only the minimums, it would take dozens of years to pay off, and this comes right off the top of her earning power.

            “Business” degrees seem like a fairly normal degree to me, by the way, but it hasn’t opened many doors for her.

            Meanwhile, I have a good friend that works for a company that does data work for restaurants (called Micros), and he started as a subcontractor with no advanced schooling (he started installing telephone systems), and is now earning enough that he has purchased several apartment buildings, and has less debt, and real assets that are throwing off real cash.

            My friend’s work is, as you’ve suggested, “technical” in a “technical world”, that is getting “more technical as we speak”.

            We all have similar stories, and, as I said, in the main, what you alluded to is true about advanced education. But it is no longer the leg up (in terms of earning power) it once was. That is a fact, sorry.

          • powertothepeople

            you or anyone may have to show how someone is not earning a great deal. It is irrelevant to the bigger picture. In fact, it makes little sense to bring up someone who has been in the workforce for around a year and use their current salary as a reason to claim they are not making more than an uneducated person. One would have to look at many factors when using anyone such as market that they are in, years of experience, type of experience, 5 years in the workforce, 10 years, etc.

            And for every single person you show me that has made a decent or good living without a degree, I can show you a 1000 who have not.

            And your last line, get real. A simple google search will show anyone that degrees give people a much better chance at success and people with degrees make 6 and 7 figures more in a lifetime than those without a degree. That bub is an actual fact.

            Now, I am done with any moron who wants to claim that somehow not being diligent enough to get a higher education is the smarter person or anyone who wants to claim that higher degrees are not the smart way to go. It is a moronic claim not worthy of anyone’s time.

          • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

            The outcomes are going to vary…

            Successful people learn regardless of the environment. When they have gleaned all they can, they move on, sometimes to riskier environments, sometimes to roles that will stretch their knowledge and expertise. With or without the degree… what will you do with the knowledge you absorb?

            Let me tell you something… some college physicists believe it should be common knowledge to know the circumference of the Earth… but how many of those dweebs ever made money? Are they happy? Who cares…

            Outcomes don’t determine the outset… if you go into any journey assuming you’ll arrive at some eternal knowledge destination you’ll fail…. we’re not meant to know things so completely that we have all the answers.

            You can get your college education with a library and a list of good books for next to nothing… I mean what’s the difference if you’re still gonna live in your parents basement and eat their food for 4 years anyway?

            The degree if anything shows a person’s ability to jump through hoops and stick to it… but jumping through hoops without critical thinking leads to these OWS clowns… they think they’re so learned and free because they can protest injustice and articulate their anger… how freakin’ pathetic… how about articulating your anger of injustice by creating your own pursuit of happiness and see where it takes you…

            The economic outcomes shouldn’t determine the value of the experience, the value of the experience should determine the value of the knowledge gained.

          • conservativecurmudgeon

            To argue from the specific to the general.

            It’s also a tad bit in the weeds from my point, which was: We are now graduating an entire generation of folks that cannot afford the educations they’ve received. 87% of the average wage stacked up against the typical tuition cost is a formula for involuntary servitude, and it is owing entirely to the interventionism of liberal social policy in the form of governmental tuition assistance.

            This assistance has not only warped and misshapen the student, it’s also done the same to the University: Institutions are hooked now on the narcotic of easy money, and won’t give it up easily.

            By the way, I don’t think it’s particularly helpful, powertothepeople, to argue the case for higher education by calling people who don’t agree with you “morons”. It rather becomes a circular argument then.

          • Justin Spagnolo (standardcandle)

            My brother is a Dean of Admissions and a private university. His role is to drive enrollment, he does it by all means of marketing… we’ve argued the efficacy of a degree in the ‘real world’ and he touts numbers of graduates that matriculate into real world jobs, and touts the median income of graduates in different fields… He has all the numbers that suggest getting a degree provides more earning opportunity… which may be true, if all you want to do is work for someone else all your life. He’s yet to provide me numbers of how many graduates go on to start their own businesses…

            The fact is his job is to market to youngsters, recruit from the children of alumni, and sell the dream of higher education raising the student’s ability to earn. There is nothing wrong with this.

            Where our society gets into trouble is we don’t teach responsibility any longer… what’s wrong with this OWS crowd is they take on student loans just to take on student loans, they live on those loans and gripe about having to pay them back instead of working while going to school and paying their own way.

            The student loan industry needs government to stop making and guaranteeing loans, it’s the same model as the housing Community Re-investment Act… Government is getting WAY too involved for my taste.

            I’m a full-time Student, and a Full-time Employee, I did my research and found a school that would provide some flexibility. It’s taken me 4 1/2 years to get to 5 classes left, I hope to graduate in the next 6-9months. But I’ve minimized my costs for School and I’ve also remained gainfully employed and have been working on my career in the field I’m getting my degree.

            It’s not been easy… in this time frame I got married, had 2 children, and bought and sold 2 houses and have moved 3 times to different states all during the great recession.

            This isn’t rocket science it’s personal accountability and a little research before committing myself to an educational track, as well as a life track.

            I work to succeed and to do what I can to provide for my family, all while staying involved… I’ve found that I’m that much more effective remaining busy and working than being unproductive complaining how the world is unfair.

            When I’ve been involved in hiring processes, I can say that whether I’ve been on the hiring side or the applicant side… the hiring process is simple… does this person have the right attitude and the competency to grow and thrive in this role? End of story… you’re simply not going to prove anything to me by your resume or your degree, you answer my questions properly, you impress me as having the right attitude, I’m going to see to it that you’re on my team… I want people that make me look good, and I don’t know a single hiring manager that doesn’t feel the same way.

            So let’s not kid ourselves… OWS doesn’t deserve any credible support for their tantrums… If they put on their adult pants and worked to shrink government the system would work for the masses, and education would return to personal accountability.

          • powertothepeople

            to see the difference between your side of the argument that costs have skyrocketed and schools have become more about the money than a real education and the argument the people are posting above that college degrees are worthless or at least not the thing to do anymore.

            Had they stated that costs were an issue, I would agree. If they argued that schools are adding fluff courses designed to draw more money in but that do not end up preparing the graduate for any job, I would agree. But for some idiot to come in and claim in this tech driven world that degrees are not needed, I will call them morons each and every time.

            30 (+) years ago when I left high school, I was working for a fast food store. As I went into college, I was promoted to a shift manager and then ended up as store manager and kept that position till graduation when I moved up to district manager. Stores and food joints promoted like that even as little as 10 years ago, but now many or even most want at least a 2 year degree to be a manager. Do some still make it to the top without the degree, yes. But most now have degrees of at least 2 years. This is the new world we live in and for someone to state otherwise, they are sorely misinformed.

            Years ago even preachers could hold a top position based solely on their life story or their knowledge of the Bible. Now, while it still happens, even the smallest of churches want a divinity degree.

            Even daycare workers, sanitation workers, dangerous spill containment employees, forklift drivers, construction workers, and so on are starting to have tech degrees and companies are looking for the ones who do. Will they ever get rich off of these jobs, maybe but most likely not, but this is the new way of employment.

            To tell anyone that a tech, associate, bach, masters, doctorate degree is not the way to go and not the prudent thing to work for is moronic, hence he who is making the claim is a moron and should be confronted before some impressionable young person buys into the nonsense.

            The right thing to say would be to tell the youth to be very diligent in their studies so more careers are opened to them and better schools are willing to accept them, be prudent about researching the course or courses the want to take and make sure the degree will translate into real world success, and use as few loans to make it through school as possible. This is the right thing to tell them, not the idiocy the posters above were trying to pass off as truth.

          • valrobex

            I found it rather interesting, and somewhat amusing, your contentiousness over my original comments that a college degree is no longer necessary.

            You maintain that fork lift drivers and construction workers need technical degrees? Good grief! How many of the illegal aliens,… excuse me, “undocumented workers” that work in the construction field and drive fork lift trucks crossed the border with college degrees?

            I personally followed the degree path obtaining two masters degrees and a doctorate only because my state of residence requires higher degrees for licensure. Did I learn anything by my education, yes. But to state that it is obligatory for entry level jobs and job promotion is simply not accurate.

            My son, who delivers pizzas, has been encouraged by both his district & regional managers to become a store manager. He kept declining. Eventually, he replied “pay me what I’m making and I’ll do it.” He told his district manager how much he makes and his DM said, ” That’s more than I make!” I ask you to carefully consider who made the more rational and proper financial decision. My son, or his boss’ boss, Why should anyone take on the financial expenditure (call it debt of perhaps $100k) in order to earn less money?

            I readily admit my son is brilliant and elevated pizza delivery to an art form. What started out as a high school part-time job has become his full time employment. I even suggested he write a book but he didn’t want others to know how he does it because it might possibly compete with his livelihood.

            I suspect you have bought into the post WW II concept of: “Go to college and get a GOOD job.” Back then, tuition was reasonable and the economy was short on highly trained and educated people. Not any more.

            You claim the work environment a.k.a. our technological era requires a post HS education. In some fields, yes. But in many areas, no. Since you didn’t appreciate my comments concerning Lincoln and Christ, I will offer to you Bill Gates & the late Steve Jobs. If you combined their collective college careers you might have the equivalent of an Associates degree. I do ask you to rethink your assumptions. Also consider the other comments above, the examples they cite can’t all be exceptions…

            And by the way, you are more than welcome to consider me moronic. I am a counseling psychologist and do a lot of career counseling for both teenagers and adults. My practice is booming so I assume I’m doing something right.

          • powertothepeople

            counseling children with this nonsense, you should be fired, period.

            And strange you claim to be in a position of influencing children on the course of the education yet you are unable to understand two simple concepts:

            A few example of success without preparation or the right tools does not negate the hundreds of thousands of stories of people unable to succeed due to poor choices not to get a higher education.

            And

            Cost of school has nothing to do with the need to have a degree. There are ways to lower the cost such as going to a technical college for the first two years, working while in school, stretching the education out further so you have less cost per year, etc. The rising cost of an education is an issue, but has nothing to do with the need for an education.

            And PS, illegals and companies willing to break the law to hire them again has nothing to do with the topic at hand or how most legitimate companies do business.

            If you really are a counselor, you not only need to be fired, you need to be sued by every person who buys into your moronic nonsense and ends up screwed. But by golly, maybe you can prove me wrong and pizza delivery will become the next “career” that produces millionaires.

            Get real. You are so full of it I am embarrassed that I have wasted precious minutes on your nonsense. It is a mistake I will not make again.

          • phenne

            … many people are not equipped (intellectually) to get results from going on to higher education.

            That group of people would be better served by a career counselor who told them, “There ARE other vocations in this economy that can be satisfying to you, enable you to support a family, and do not require furthering your “formal” education.

            America has need for ALL people to contribute to their community / society.

            It just won’t be as an articulate community organizer [sarc].

          • valrobex

            You are absolutely correct.

            I worked with a young man (18 yrs old) who was a miserable academic student yet incredibly sociable, very musical, and steeped in electronic knowledge he had learned by himself. We worked through a career interest instrument ( he needed some “coaching” to complete) and he was beautifully suited for working as a tech in the recording industry. (He never considered the field.) Some would have encouraged him to “go to college” for radio & tv but that was obviously not an option for him. I suggested he go to some of the recording studios in the area and see if he could intern and apprentice in order to learn the industry. He jumped on the idea with youthful exuberance and did just that. Last time I heard he was doing well.

            Another kid I worked with was in a great deal of trouble with drugs, the law, etc. When he was old enough we did some career counseling and I sent him to investigate various fields of endeavor and he came back saying he wanted to be a Marine. I do a lot of professional work with our military personnel and when I was at Camp Lejeune I was able to check up on him with the MEF Chaplain commander who confirmed that this young man was doing well.

            I could drone on about all the young folks who have been helped by being guided in a direction other than the modern path of “Go to college and get a GOOD job.” But I suspect by now, the point has been established that there are other paths that can lead to excellent jobs / careers which do not included higher education.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    No, don’t blame the college system that charged you an outrageous amount. Nah, let’s just blame Republicans.

    They do know that Democrats dominate Wall Street and Universities, don’t they?