In a frightening expansion of executive power the United States military is planning to have 20,000 uniformed troops INSIDE the United States by 2011. With congressional approval and funding, the federal government lead by the Bush administration, is riding rough shod over the Posse Comitatus Act passed in 1878.
From MSNBC dot com
The U.S. military expects to have 20,000 uniformed troops inside the United States by 2011 trained to help state and local officials respond to a nuclear terrorist attack or other domestic catastrophe, according to Pentagon officials.
The long-planned shift in the Defense Department’s role in homeland security was recently backed with funding and troop commitments after years of prodding by Congress and outside experts, defense analysts said.
There are critics of the change, in the military and among civil liberties groups and libertarians who express concern that the new homeland emphasis threatens to strain the military and possibly undermine the Posse Comitatus Act, a 130-year-old federal law restricting the military’s role in domestic law enforcement.
Americans are suspicious of the use of military force on American soil and for good reason. This suspicion is rooted in the American colonial experience. Dana Somerville at HNN dot com provides some insight in her article, What is the Posse Comitatus Act?.
This prejudice against the military is rooted in our experience during Colonial times. In the tumultuous years preceding the American Revolution the British military was sent to the colonies to enforce British control. In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson expressly cited the use of the British military in America as one of the colonists’ central grievances: “He [the king] has kept among us, in times of peace, standing militaries without the consent of our legislatures. He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to the civil power.”
Once the United States was formed, Americans were determined to protect themselves from an overbearing military. The Articles of Confederation limited the role of the military. The Constitution mandated civilian control of the military, with the elected president serving as commander-in-chief.
More recent events should raise concerns about the increased involvement of the military in civilian affairs. In 1993 President Clinton used the United States military to massacre 82 civilians at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. Picking up where Clinton left off, President Bush has removed any limits on the executive’s power to wage war, seize and confine. Now this expanded power will be handed over to an unrepentant marxist.
“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” –Benjamin Franklin
God help us!
Moe Lane
Dan McLaughlin
Dan Spencer
Jeff Emanuel
Neil Stevens
Caleb Howe
Daniel Horowitz
This news creeps me out.
CFPeterson (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 4:52PM EDT (link)For real I get a sick feeling in my stomach. Is it all really that necessary?
I’ve read the Pentagon reasoning and it isn’t quite right. We don’t need a standing military to respond to gas attacks, poisonings, nuclear attacks… You need civil defense and police.
Military is for fighting wars. Not only is it an afront to our freedoms, its bluring the line between military and police.
Exactly!
Crippy (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:01PM EDT (link)And this gives the incoming administration precedence for even more egregious attacks on personal liberty.
God help us!
-Crippy’s World
Wave bye-bye to The Constitution and Bill Of Rights.
Kenny Solomon (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:23PM EDT (link)Pitchforks and torches, everyone.
Pitchforks and torches.
In the world of extraordinarily BAD ideas...
mbecker908 (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:51PM EDT (link)this one is at the very, very top. I can’t think of a move that I would be more opposed to, including nationalizing heath care and expanding the Department of Education.
The job description of the US military is to kill people and blow up things. It most certainly is not to be worrying about anybody’s constitutional rights to do anything other than die.
This really stupid idea will not only degrade our ability to project military force – not that the Congress and the Courts haven’t already done enough with the detainee rulings – but it will give the federal government virtually unlimited power to project force internally.
If you really think that the people in Washington DC are worthy of being trusted with this kind of power, you live in an alternate universe. This measure might get me to donate to the ACLU.
NOTE: I posted this comment in Loozianajay’s diary here…
The really scary thing is that he seems to think it’s a good idea.
aka brownshirts
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 5:59PM EDT (link)The good news is, the military as currently constituted will never become the kind of flackeys required to become the American version of the brownshirts.
But this sort of thing creates a stepping stone. A truly alarming step would be that this ‘first-response’ force fall under the authority of somebody other than military channels – such as DHS.
Oh wait….
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
No way can we let this happen
Cowboy (Diary) Monday, December 1st at 11:08PM EDT (link)Their is nothing that this force can do that the National Guard, state and local police, and well armed citizens can’t do.
Except oppress you.
Apparently Bush enacted Obama's 'civilian defense force' on his own...
Xasteius (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:07AM EDT (link)The problem is that we have two months of this genius and his compassionate conservatism cringe.
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
The only poll that counts is the one at the ballot box.
I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be a Chance/Soros hybrid.
This is getting a bit Socialistic...
dbecraft Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:11AM EDT (link)I’m tempted to run out and buy a lot of guns when this type of activity occurs…
Any advice from the more experienced of the group?
Formally known as Deagle… “Golf is a way of life…”
if you mean about guns
Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:40AM EDT (link)all I can tell you is you are way back in the line, not that that is a reason not to get in line! People have been buying firearms, scary looking rifles that Obama plans to ban, and ammunition at frenzy levels for a couple of months. Combine this with the two wars going, and ammo and weapons are in short supply for civilians. To say there is a buying frenzy would not be an understatement.
This is not to say your average pistol, hunting rifle, and some ammo can not be found. This is a sellers market and people are selling as much as buying (of course).
If you really are unarmed and would like to change that, my suggestion is to got to an NRA sponsored course first. NRA gun courses
then I would consider if you want a firearm for home defense only, or want to get a carry permit. If you want to get a carry permit, and are in a state that allows such, you will likely have to take another course. some info
If you want more specific information just ask. If this was not what you are getting at, at least the info might help someone.
If you are a gun owner and just asking if this is a good time to “stock up”, then you will have to answer that yourself. The stock trader in me says this is a panic and time to sell not buy. But the realist in me says the panic may be based on reality. My advice/ guess would be to look for suppliers who are not gouging and look to buy after the holidays or to get on a backorder list.
My personal belief is every free man should own, and know how to use a pistol, shotgun, and rifle.
Molon Labe!
yeah that was stupid
Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:44AM EDT (link)even if he believed in it, make the other guy cross the Rubicon. Man, Bush has got to have the worst instincts in politics.
Molon Labe!
yeah that was stupid
Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:45AM EDT (link)even if he believed in it, make the other guy cross the Rubicon. Man, Bush has got to have the worst instincts in politics.
Molon Labe!
You'd have said that of the Wehrmacht,
Achance (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:54AM EDT (link)a thoroughly professional, non-political force, just before all the officers took an oath to Hitler. Be afraid. I greatly admire the American soldier and am the father to one, but I have no illusions about how deeply most of them think about this stuff. If they get the order, they’ll follow it, no questions.
In Vino Veritas
yeah
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 12:57AM EDT (link)a few pistols, because they are easy and quick, great in tight spots. Decent power, at least 9mm. 9 mm is great because ammo is cheap and easy to find.
At least one assault rifle. A semi-automatic. Don’t waste time with a deer-type rifle. Bolt action is slow. When trouble comes, you want the ability to spray out ammo pretty quick.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
okay, but xnay on the "spray" word
Doc Holliday (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 2:58AM EDT (link)the left hoplophobes use that word to make people think they are banning machine guns. The Assault Weapons Ban AKA Clinton Gun Ban of 1994 banned scary looking (black) semi-automatic rifles, and any firearm that held more than ten rounds.
With a semi-automatic rifle, whether it be a hunting rifle or military type “black rifle”, you only can fire one round at a time. If you pull the trigger once, one round fires, if you pull it again, then another fires. And if you are not aiming each round, you will not hit your target I promise you that.
Ironically, the “machine guns” that the liberals lied to us about during the Clinton Gun Ban where never made illegal, only scary semi-autos. Fully automatic weapons are covered under the 1937 National Firearms Act, and can be purchased with a $200 tax stamp and background check. You have to be a serious enthusiast with a hell of a lot of money to get a fully auto weapon, since you can easily blow though a hundred dollars of ammo in a minute or so.
For home defese or close quarters fighting, nothing beats a shotgun. If I only had one firearm it would be a revolver with at least a 4 inch barrell. But if you want to piss off Obama and the nutroots, definitely get a scary looking AR-15, it even has a bayonet lug (something banned by Clinton in 1994).
Molon Labe!
Self Defense?
GreyCloak (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 6:43AM EDT (link)My sweet wife keeps a couple of .410 cartridges with her lipstick. They fit in, although I question whether her single-shot shotgun would be sufficient to do in an intruder … on the other hand, she was trained by duck- and goose-hunters … I trust that her first shot would be accurate.
I prefer my 9 mm handgun for the house, but the advent of Obama may force me to pick up that 8×57 Egyptian semi-auto rifle that I’ve put off buying … although the Saiga AK-47 knock-off in .410 chamber is a tempting alternative.
Thus the "oh wait....."
E Pluribus Unum (Diary) Tuesday, December 2nd at 11:32AM EDT (link)My thoughts exactly, Achance.
Kill the Terrorists
Protect the Borders
Punch the Hippies h/t IMAO
I just submitted this to Digg...
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 6:59PM EDT (link)please log in and Digg it!
The brownshirts...
Diogenes314 (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 8:49PM EDT (link)Weren’t military. They were the Nazi party’s privite thug brigade of veterans and unemployed hoodlums. As far as the Wehrmacht, our troops already take an oath-to the Constitution.
According to the article the idea is to have a rapid response force in case of an NBC attack. Not that I think this is a good idea. At least with a CinC with a good deal of blatant disdain for the Constitution.
This is a VERY bad idea no matter who is President.
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 9:04PM EDT (link)It will degrade the military. They’ll be taking classes on criminal justice, use of deadly force doctrine, Miranda, 4th Amendment Search & Seizure, etc. The very last things we want running through combat troops heads.
Every decent size city has a SWAT team that does exactly what this force is proposed for. That doesn’t include FBI, DEA, ATF and all the other alphabet groups. Their tactics are all modeled on the same role and they can (and do) work together.
Before the FBI HRT unit was formed someone suggested using Delta Force, at the time a highly classified unit. They put on a demo for the Director of the FBI and some gnomes from DoJ. After dinner the gnomes got a tour of the Delta barracks and the guys had all their equipment arrayed and went through everything. At the end of the presentation the FBI Director asked the Delta commander, Col Charles Beckwith, where they kept their handcuffs. Beckwith put on his best 1000 yard stare, looked the Director in the eye and said, “We don’t use handcuffs. We don’t need them.” That is as it should be.
To paraphrase, we don’t need the military acting as a “fast reaction” team or anything else within our borders unless somebody (those pesky Canadians come to mind) starts air dropping commandos in division level quantities.
That deserves to have been said many, many more times than it had been.
birdmojo (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 9:12PM EDT (link)“This is a VERY bad idea no matter who is President.”
Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. –Voltaire
Agreed, but as a former Marine...
Mark Malcolm (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 9:15PM EDT (link)I can tell you if the President tells the Marines to go, they go. He also has the authority to send the US Marines anywhere, even into combat, for up to 90 days without any oversight or approval from congress whatsoever. That’s right now.
After 90 days the President either has to have congressional approval or he has to withdraw the force.
Barack has already said he wants to create a 250,000 man civilian force equipped equally as well as the US military. Why? what possible use do the United States have for an independent force with tanks, planes, missiles et al? Oh, that’s right, putting down an insurrection.
Here’s a scary timeline.
First, the quarter mil folks are drafted and given shovels and rakes to do make work projects in all 50 states. They’re organized and deployed very much like military units, but don’t worry, the simple uniforms are just to identify them. They’re harmlessly picking up trash along the highway.
A motion in Congress is made to limit gun ownership in some simple way, and it’s rammed down the throat of America, because after all, what do hunters need with AK47′s?
A natural disaster strikes and the quarter mil are mobilized to assist the local authorities. They are put in simple positions of authority organizing relief distribution but something goes horribly wrong and a large number of them are injured trying to orderly distribute aid but are over come by an angry mob.
A recommendation is given to arm a limited number of them with side arms, which is also rammed down America’s throat.
The next time they take over relief duties they stay in place, just to relieve the real local authorities for more important work. They’re never removed from these positions.
Soon they’re in control in key places in every state answerable only to a federal authority vested in and controlled by the President.
Imperial expansion begins inward to control all 50 states fully.
Some recluse who didn’t turn in his AK47 like he was supposed to turns loose on the New Authority causing collateral damage.
The MSM turns neighbor against neighbor to find ALL the guns and suddenly it isn’t even safe, let alone politically correct to have a toy plastic gun let alone anything one could remotely consider useful in self defense.
You wake up and suddenly realize you fell asleep during The O’Reilly Factor after eating a cheese steak with heavy jalapenos.
I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it to the very death.
Bingo.
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 9:22PM EDT (link)My son went to MCRD SC in Feb 2001. On 9/11 he was assigned to the fleet (2/4 out of Pendleton). They pulled his Btn and for a short time trained them in riot control and told them they might be deployed within the US if it became necessary. They were specifically disarmed except for batons and pepper spray and were told that local police would handle any “shooting” situation.
That was the only time during his four years and three deployments that I was really scared for him (and for us). Thankfully, they rotated them right back to MEU status and nothing ever happened with their “training”.
OoooRahh, mac...
Mark Malcolm (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 9:38PM EDT (link)I’ve been trained in riot control as well as snatch and grab. It’s a part of MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) training. They explain you’re looking for ‘enemy’ agitators in a mob that’s trying to, for example, storm an embassy or other headquarters unit in a foreign land. Replace the idea that it’s an embassy with, say the local TV station and replace the foreign land part with, say Tuscaloosa. Scary, that.
I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it to the very death.
This wasn't MOUT. He did that later &
mbecker908 (Diary) Wednesday, December 3rd at 11:35PM EDT (link)a couple of times. This was specific riot control for US cities.
First time thru MOUT his 1stSgt ask the platoon what the best way to clear a building was. Josh jumped up and said, “Squad in front, squad in back, fast rope onto the roof, and clear it floor by floor going down.” The 1stSgt smiled (you know that 1stSgt smile) and said “NO!” “The BEST way to clear a building is with artillery.”