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In Praise of Chaos in Iran

Let The Heavens Fall

Iran, we are told, is on the edge of, if not sliding immediately into, chaos. Both sides of the presidential election have claimed not only victory but landslide victory, and as happens in such cases in states that are not genuine democracies, the candidate who is out of power has apparently found himself under arrest, and the population is edging from restive to explosive. The usual voices of the status quo will undoubtedly tell us that America needs to be worried about this. But while chaos in Iran is not without risk, it is greatly to be encouraged.

First, Iran has been a thorn in the side of the United States, both in Iraq and more broadly around the region, and as often as not it has meddled in our and others’ affairs without cost. There are few principles of international relations more critical than always giving the other guy a downside for making trouble. The disputed election makes the Iranian regime vulnerable; it is precisely at such moments of vulnerability that the regime can be made to suffer the downside of making us an enemy.

Second, the Iranian regime is bad for the Iranian people. Anything we can do to improve the chances of eliminating that regime improves the odds of cracking open Iranian society for the better. Violence is, unfortunately, the rule rather than the exception in revolutions, but freedom often isn’t free – and as we have seen in recent decades, a surprising number of brutal but brittle regimes have crumpled in the face of popular uprising when they lost the will to stage their own Tianamen Square moment. There is only one way to find out; if the Iranian people are ready to take the chance, we should do whatever we can in our power to encourage them.

Third, a weak and inward-facing Iranian regime will be a lesser threat to continue pursuing its nuclear program and other forms of mischief, and may even provide opportunities for well-funded intelligence operations to take advantage of an unstable situation to further weaken Iranian capabilities.

Fourth, Iran has long stood as a propaganda victory for the Islamists, proof of a sort that an Islamic revolutionary state could stand against the West. That victory has inspired even Sunni Islamists who otherwise have little in common with Shi’ite Iran. The collapse or weakening of the regime at the hands of popular unrest would further demonstrate the dead end that is the radical Islamic political project.

America today has a great opportunity to make trouble for a hostile government while at the same time potentially lending an opportunity for freedom to its oppressed people. We should use whatever resources are at our disposal to make the best of that chance.

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COMMENTS

  • USNJIMRET

    Unfortunately, I have no faith or confidence that the current Oval Office Occupant will.
    And our “Chief Diplomat” went to Canada to offer words of severe’ warning to North Korea for it’s exploits, and diplo speak for Iran.
    I don’t doubt that a Golden opportunity will be allowed to slip away, again.

  • ivorykeyer

    Hats off to the Iranian clerics and political orthodoxy for responding in the worst and most blatantly self-serving manner. Hopefully they’ll continue to inflame the Iranian public.

  • OccamsRazor

    The Universe may be heading towards it, but the Republican Party Is Not.

    Satiate Yourself in that Thought.

  • DONTREADONME

    solely to make its decision what this election will mean for the future. There will be no America ready to boost their aspirations. Our only present to the people of Iran was a free Iraq and shortly again Afghanistan. Other than that, America’s leaders will not be on board to support a popular uprising, that ship left the docks back in November 08 and began rolling out of port back in January of 06. I do not want to watch a repeat of our tepid support for a popular Shiite uprising against Saddam that we saw in ’91-92. Anyway, heres praying to God that the Iranian people will experience their freedom without bloodshed.

    • 6eorge Jetson

      and the Iranian uprising flies in the face of his position that Iraq was a big mistake.

      Or perhaps Zero will start claiming that he gave the orders to free the Iraqi people back in 2003.

  • Hera

    many times how much the Iranian people hate the mullahs and strict
    Islamic rule yet they never do anything. I’m not optimistic that they will do much of anything this time. As for the opposition candidate who “lost” the Presidential election.Brigitte Gabriel was on FOX saying that he has a history of praising the killing of 230 US Marines in a suicide bombing in Lebanon and had bragged about killing 141 people.He does however want to get rid of the religious police and allow for more choice for women in the way they dress. I suppose this is what passes for a “progressive” in Iran.

    • mom2oneson

      nt

      • Mike gamecock DeVine
    • mom2oneson

      There is no way to get rid of religious police there under the current regime since the law is based on Islam. All they could do is possibly make changes.
      As far as progressive goes the issue with the current regime is they are fundamentalist. Many initially supported this regime because they were afraid of losing their cutlure and religious freedom. I think less fundamentalism is what people want but they do not want freedom from a religious government/laws. When they say freedom is not like what we think it is, they hate the free market system and stuff.

      • Mike gamecock DeVine

        many fled
        One became my econ professor.
        Many more were intimidated into silence by the radical islamists.
        A majority of the yutes have grown to hate the mullahs and long for the freedom of the West.

    • Dencal26

      From what I have read there is not much difference between these candidates. Perhaps its more meaningful to Iranians as far as internal policy.

      As a college student in 1979 I actually shared an apartment with 3 Iranians. They were affluent and 2 of them ( Brothers) came from a family who owned the largest paint manufacturer in Iran. At that time the family sent each of them $500 per month to live on plus rent money. Not bad. They seemed westernized in every sense of the word. They dated American girls. Threw parties and served booze. Wore western clothes etc. After Khomeni ousted the Shah they celebrated . I was a little shocked but they told me the Shah was evil and the Savak had tortured Iranians. Soon after the revolution Khomeni ordered the execution of 700 Iranian Army Officers claiming they were CIA agents. Certainly I thought my roomates would reject this idea since there are probably not 700 CIA Agents on planet earth let alone in the Iranian Army, I was shocked when they supported these executions and agreed with Khomeni. Then they stopped drinking and became devout muslims. Eventually we parted ways and they moved to the west coast but not before rejecting their own father who they claim was a Shah Loyalist. No matter how westernized they may seem they just aren’t.

      • Mike gamecock DeVine

        that could be seized to bring about change in Iran via the streets.

        • Hera

          Both of the leading Presidential candidates are extremists. The main difference is that one of the candidates favors getting rid of the religious police and greater opportunities for Iranian women

          • Mike gamecock DeVine

            and are trying to USE this election to demand freedom. We should support them.

  • DCTrav

    People tend to get used to freedom, and if one candidate offers an iota more of it we should support that candidate.

    At the same time, politicians have to play to their electorate. Considering that we are the US, I would say it is reasonable to expect every national election in every country will have some sort of platform involving putting pressure on us in some way and/or successes in dealing with us. Unfortunately a leader in any Iranian election is going to have a much harsher message than we like to hear.

    Realistically, we can’t expect anyone who openly loves this country to win an election there right now. However, we can work toward it.

    • http://www.publiusforum.com Warner Todd Huston

      It’s actually the lesser of two evils, if you will. The Mullahs run Iran. The “president” is more of a figurehead (though admittedly, Akmoodinnerjacket has taken on more power than other past presidents).

      Iran is a long way from any kind of progress. In fact, Iran is becoming more and more powerful as the mover and shaker of the mideast. The Arab coalition is proving itself powerless against the Persian hoards.

    • reddog9

      Especially what you said about

      “People tend to get used to freedom, and if one candidate offers an iota more of it we should support that candidate.”

      That is so true. I think we as a country need to support anybody, anywhere, who reaches for true freedom.

      • mom2oneson
  • Doc Holliday

    You have Hillary talking Newspeak about the “dialogue” going on in Iran. Then you have the CANADIAN foreign minister talking tough about voting irregularities! The link was on the front page but I think they reformatted everything so I can’t find it.

  • Tim

    Seriously. What can be done?

    You can’t send in the troops, for obvious reasons (not the least of which is they’re otherwise engaged). And do we really think that condemnation from the US is going to matter one jot to them? It hasn’t thus far.

    So what exactly can the US do at this point?

    • mom2oneson

      They teach their little children to say death to America like we teach our kids to say the pledge before their school day starts.

      • Mike gamecock DeVine

        A majority of Iranians love America. It is the oppressive and violent minority. Moreover, the mullahs have made Iran an economic basket case. Don’t forget that the people put their hope in Ahmedinijad when he was first elected, hoping for econ reforms. The fact is that these are sham elections, but the yutes in Iran are getting tired of the oppression and are ripe for revolution, which we should encourage.

        Of course America should be the beacon of Liberty for the people that yearn to breathe free.

        That’s what we do. What I am most proud of America for is our efforts at liberation of the oppressed whether in Europe twice from fascism; over the USSR, Korea, Phillipines, Grenada, Kosovo, Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan.

        • mom2oneson

          I don’t believe the majority of them love America. Maybe the wealth that America offers but I don’t believe the majority love what it stands for. They call us captialist, imperialist, and it’s negative to them and it’s very much a part of their culture. They think Americans going to h*ll in a handbasket. Do you know how people here sometimes have stereotypes of people and they apply that to everyone from that group? That is what it’s like they as far as how they stereotype people’s morality here. They stereotype Americans as having low moral standards etc. It is not just the rural/villagers even the educated people there do that. I guess my main point is these things are not from the past 30 years. It’s not just the fundamentalist that think like this, most of the nominal Muslims there have these type of attitudes.
          As far as your professor there are many Iranians here that have contributed to great things here it seems especially in fields like engineering and medicine and real estate. I’m not denying that at all.

          • Mike gamecock DeVine

            if you did about whites, blacks or Americans.

            Iranian society is split much like America and my professor fled in ’79 and is quite representative of a large portion of the nation which portion that longs fro freedom has gotten larger the longer Iran has suffered economically under the mullahs and esp given the yutes that have discovered the West via technology over 15 years ago.

            But we can agree to disagree, but I do think it is quite inaccurate for you to suggest anything like unanimity of thought in Iran re the west.

          • mom2oneson

            is very much present in their language and even of the middle/upper class professional that are in America. Imperalist, colonist, capitalist etc are negative terms in Farsi and they genrally believe that Americans have low moral standards. They often believe that everthing that happens in the West falls under Christian beliefs. I’m not trying to stereotype anyone I am writing what I have observed.

          • ocleverone
          • mom2oneson

            thanks for your patience Mike!
            Just to make it clearer, this is from people that are only nominal Muslims, that hate the current regime, and are so burnt out on religion due to their exposure to that fundamentalism. I’m saying those anti America anti capitalism attitudes are still present as part of their language and culture and attitudes. I’m not talking about extreme or even dedicated going to the Mosque on Friday & fasting during Ramadan and praying five times a day Muslims.

          • pilgrim

            http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/6964

            The impact Hitler had survives among Muslims drives the hate that was not evident in the history of Muslim empires.

          • mom2oneson

            Thank you for that link.I have seen some of that Aryan type of elitist race type of menatlity. I know there are Americans with that type of thought too so it’s not specific to a nationality. I guess I’m saying is there is anti-Arabs attitudes in that culture too. I just bookmarked your link thank you sharing it.

          • mom2oneson

            I think what I mean is, many people there do not want the extreme fundamentalism and the craziness associated with that, and there are problems with extreme fundamentalism if it’s with any religion, but that doesn’t mean they love America. The Shah was too far reaching putting restrictions on dress people should not be forced to give that up and obviously they swung the other way to a leader that appeared more conservative. I don’t think they bargained for the extreme fundamentalism supporting khomieni.

          • Doc Holliday

            these days? The fanatical Muslim’s hated “Infidels” a thousand years ago, but they could not do that much about it. Sometimes you can’t make the perfect the enemy of the better. It would be better if Iran was not run by a fanatic.

          • mom2oneson
          • mom2oneson

            for supporting Iraq in their war with them.

          • Mike gamecock DeVine

            He is the foremost expert on Iran and has been for over 30 years and he says that the Iranian people are among the most pro-American in the Islamic world and in the greater Middle East.

            some of his writings
            http://author.nationalreview.com/?q=MjE2Nw==

            ps

            devine loves you mom and please also be patient with your wanna be second son!

          • mom2oneson

            no chance of disowning you!!! :)

            I am going to read him thank you for the link! :)

            One more thing I forgot to add when I wrote about the contributions to real estate, engineering, medicine, is there is virtually no feminism in Iranian culture. Whatever that is called that mothers do that raise good strong citizens is another contribution many make to America. The women are usually every dedicated to their families well being. I’m sure it exists but I’ve not seen the same type of dysfunction with kids dealing drugs, drinking, running away with the new boyfriend etc that I do with native born American families. I’ve seen tons and tons of successful families that produce educate kids that are professionals even when the parents are not professionals here.

          • Mike gamecock DeVine
    • Doc Holliday

      we can support moderates and those that oppose Islamic Fundamentalism. The USA has supported opposition groups around the world for decades, remember the Cold War?

      I am not saying we can foment revolution or control it if it happens, but there are certainly things we can do. For example, if this turmoil persists or gets worse, it would be a possible opportunity to sabotage the regime and its nuclear plans. But that is just an example, there are literally unlimited things we can do.

      • Mike gamecock DeVine
  • EagleWatcher

    The protest aren’t going anywhere without US backing.

    • Uma Richie

      I think that the Iranians have long hoped for and expected American intervention to free them from their regime. They are trapped on a runaway train with a lunatic president hell bent on an a suicidal war with Israel and they look at weak Obama and realize that the cavalry isn’t coming. They now realize they have to save themselves.

      Unfortunately for them, Obama’s apparent understanding of Iran is way off base. If he had a realistic perception, he could get down to the business of helping this uprising along. Instead, he is probably being recalibrated as we speak.

      • EagleWatcher

        Clinton went into Kosovo because of public pressure. There’s nothing like that on Barry. He will go golfing, grab dinner in NYC and push his Government Run Death Care plan.

        • jcincy

          Clinton went into Kosovo because of dry cleaning* issues and little problem with lying*.

          Clinton was being impeached and needed a distraction. Kosovo was a convenient out. The media hopped on board… “How dare the Republicans attack a president during a war!” The naive, stupid Republicans worried more about their press clippings than doing their CONSTITUTIONALLY mandated job.

          * – The stained blue dress.
          * – Perjury.

          • EagleWatcher

            Just to complete the picture, the French also put pressure on Clinton to take military action.

            There’s no such pressure on The Man Who Would be God.

          • EagleWatcher

            n/t

      • mom2oneson

        I don’t believe any of the people want war with Isreal but we can’t deny that they hate Isreal and Jews. That is the other thing they have their six year olds chant besides death to America it’s death to Isreal.

        • Uma Richie

          when they need to deflect criticism off themselves. I believe that is where the hate chanting comes in to play.

          • Uma Richie

            .

      • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

        the opinion has been split around here as to whether the US should/could or would “need” to take on Iran. The general concensus has been that Iran would/could/might implode from within because the people of Iran are among the most pro-Western in the entire Mideast, and are the most likely to rebel against their own theocracy if the United States supported their efforts [covertly] without threatening them overtly.

        Those people who were hoping for that covert assistance now realize that this president does not care about them, and as so often happens when we realize that help is not coming from anyone else [not to go back to the government run assistance and healthcare debate] we take matters ourselves — or in this case, theirselves — and solve them.

      • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

        the opinion has been split around here as to whether the US should/could or would “need” to take on Iran. The general concensus has been that Iran would/could/might implode from within because the people of Iran are among the most pro-Western in the entire Mideast, and are the most likely to rebel against their own theocracy if the United States supported their efforts [covertly] without threatening them overtly.

        Those people who were hoping for that covert assistance now realize that this president does not care about them, and as so often happens when we realize that help is not coming from anyone else [not to go back to the government run assistance and healthcare debate] we take matters ourselves — or in this case, theirselves — and solve them.

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

          [hic], [hic]

        • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

          [hic], [hic]

        • Mike gamecock DeVine
          • mbecker908

            Bush did basically nothing in either Iran or NoKo. In both of these instances, he seems to have “learned his lesson” from Iraq and turned the problem over to the Euroweenie/UN faction. Sooner or later both Iran and NoKo will blow up. (It won’t be “Bush’s fault”, no administration has dealt with either of these actors.)

          • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz

            and I seem to remember that both you and I said repeatedly that President Bush would NOT leave the Iranian mess for Israel to have to clean up or for his successor to screw up.

            we were both wrong…

          • Mike gamecock DeVine
  • panchita

    can’t help but notice how his responses to media questions mirror bambis.

  • louisiana

    albeit many moons ago, you have to know their history & culture. Reza Shah Pahlavi came into power through the army & with U.S. help. He had the
    power of the army behind him. He was forced to abdicate to his son ,Mohammad, by the Allies when he started getting friendly with the Axis powers.Mousavi does not control the army, nor will he receive help from the U.S. Since Mousavi has been arrested, his movement is leaderless(I think
    the only way for him to come out of this alive, is for him to accept the elction
    results via orders from the supreme leader) In order to be successful, the opposition has to get control of the army & the state run media which I don’t see happening , unless someone steps up to take a leadership role. I don’t
    see that occurring right now. For me personally, I would say now is the time for Israel to move in & destroy their nuclear facilities.

    • Mike gamecock DeVine

      http://www.anncoulter.com/

      To the contrary, in Cairo, Obama endorsed Iran’s quest for nuclear “power,” while attacking — brace yourself — America
      for helping remove Iranian loon Mohammad Mossadegh.

      The CIA’s taking out Mossadegh was probably the greatest thing that agency ever did. This was back in 1953, before it became a collection of lawyers and paper-pushers.

      Mossadegh was as crazy as a March hare (which is really saying something when your competition is Moammar Gadhafi, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and Saddam Hussein). He gave interviews lying in bed in pink pajamas. He wept, he fainted, and he set his nation on a path of permanent impoverishment by “nationalizing” the oil wells, where they sat idle after the British companies that knew how to operate them pulled out.

      But he was earthy and hated the British, so left-wing academics adored Mossadegh. The New York Times compared him to Thomas Jefferson.

      True, Mossadegh had been “elected” by the Iranian parliament — but only in the chaos following the assassination of the sitting prime minister.

      In short order, the shah dismissed this clown, but Mossadegh refused to step down, so the CIA forcibly removed him and allowed the shah’s choice to assume the office. This “coup,” as liberal academics term it, was approved by liberals’ favorite Republican president, Dwight Eisenhower, and supported by such ponderous liberal blowhards as John Foster Dulles.

      For Obama to be apologizing for one of the CIA’s greatest accomplishments isn’t just crazy, it’s Ramsey Clark crazy.

  • oklahomajon

    Correct Me if wrong but i believe It ilegal to own gun in Iran. seem like read that one time one major strike opposeing gun control. just go show you that tyrant fear guns in the hands of the people.I think China also might be that way
    So the only way for the people to revolt is for the Army to get behind them.And I know that mullah call the shots but this guy Amad that is whole bunch eaiser to spell is a mananic.Glen Beck said one time said that even the first Ayatollah thought his pol.group was nuts.

  • rbdwiggins

    whose numbers were strong enough and was capable of undermining the current Fundamentalist regime from within, our Special Forces would have found them by now.

    It’s my opinion that the “students” in Iran, much like many “students” in America, aren’t willing to bear the cost of Liberty.

    Luckily, we don’t have to depend on our “students” to defend our Liberty.

    • pilgrim

      .

      • rbdwiggins
    • Mike gamecock DeVine

      willing to take the heat for massive covert operations.

      But bottom line, I agree with you about the lack of the extraordinary courage required. I say that to elevate our Founders, not to denigrate Iranians.

      • 6eorge Jetson

        Any chance that we’d aid Iranians fighting for freedom left office on 01/20/09.

        Under Bush, our adversaries had to assess whether the US had the bandwidth and capability to act. Under Obama, they know that the US won’t respond. (Except with those intimidating “words” that apparently mean something. Until their expiration date.)

      • rbdwiggins

        and you are correct… The United States lacks the political will to oppose China and Russia, and without the overwhelming support from the Iranian people, the US is right to be wary of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

        Note: Faced with a student uprising, the Theocracy in Iran would not approach the civil unrest as a matter for law enforcement.

  • oklahomajon

    When we Invade Iraq there was one madman that decided he had better get a little bit more civil and that was the Libya colonel.By way from now on I am going to refer to the three extreme nut case as as the three stooges that is whole lot eaiser to spell . Of coarse that the N.K. leader which that one Kim is easy and so is Hugo but my point is that they say so many dumb thing that the world loves to gobble especially some those thugs at the U.N.but some the amb.did walk out on the first stooge when he spoke there the last time oh well maybe one of those day he going learn that he cant have everything,but i dont think it will any time soon

  • http://theminorityreportblog.com David Hinz
  • louisiana

    want direct intervention into Iran’s affairs. I firmly believe that America’s
    attitude that’we know better than you do” probably led to the
    ’79 revolution. When I lived there, even the poorest American was much richer than the average Iranian. My Dad worked for SEDCO (now Schlumberger),
    and there was no effort made by them or the U.S. gov.t to teach us to
    respect their culture ( can’t speak for how the military prepped their
    personnel). The American school did not teach about Iranian culture,
    and there were no classes teaching Farsi. Americans were arrogant ( I
    do hate to admit that). Case in point, back then, girls wore dresses, not
    pants (you youngsters may find that hard to believe); thus we were
    exposing not only our heads,but arms, legs, etc. You can see how this
    was an affront to their culture (religion). If America tries any covert operations,
    and fails , then we only give A’Jad (mullah’s mouthpiece) the right to say, “see
    I told you the West wants to take over,Imperialist infidels!” Although Mousavi
    is considered more moderate, this is only in comparison to the present regime.
    I have read nothing that convinces me that he is pro western (especially in
    regards to their nuclear development). If anyone is interested, the
    Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi (son of the late Shah), has a website:www.rezapahlavi.org. He comments on the current unrest in the
    country.

  • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

    I’m not sure that’s the important thing here. It’s not what they think of us, it’s what they *do*.

    Is he less of a nutcase? Less of a Jew hater? Less of a terrorist? That’s what I want to know.

    • Mike gamecock DeVine

      that seek the freedom to have their own candidates that the mullahs don’t approve of!

  • louisiana

    what they think of us, because what they think of us will certainly dictate
    what they *do*. I do not pretend to be an expert on Mousavi, but from
    what I have read, he is no friend of Israel, and there are no indications
    that he would try to limit Iran’s terrorist activities. I’m not promoting A’jad,
    I’m just saying that Mousavi could well be promoting “hope” & “change”
    In Iran, & we all know how well that’s worked for us.

    • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens
      • louisiana

        I’m an old lady of 57 & have very basic computer skills. So If I have
        offended you because of some etiquette breach, then I do apologize.
        But just like many of the other posters here, I stand by what I have posted.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          I’m just letting you know how it works here. If you use the Reply To This button, as you just did, it makes it all easier to follow.

          Thanks,

  • Wing Zero

    My concern is that an eventual Armageddon-jad loss would be seen by the American People as “OK – Iran problem solved.” Whoever gets elected, Iran will continue to develop nukes with the ability to hit more of our bases or Israel.

    I am, however, excited that there is a real possibility of more chaos in Iran. I want it to go country wide. I want whispers of freedom to run from Tehran to the Persian Gulf. I also want any iota of freedom the Iranian people can get for themselves. One that door is cracked, it becomes harder to shut.

    • Wing Zero

      Some conservative elected official needs to “man up” and say something to the effect that the free peoples of the world stand with the Iranian people who have had their freedom denied for far to long, because Obama most certainly won’t say something so bold.

      • mom2oneson
  • izoneguy

    I had a free preview of HBO and started watching this program.
    You have to watch it. It just documents real people in Iran.
    No narration.

    HBO’s Spotlight On Iran to Air “Letters to the President”

    http://letterstothepresidentmovie.com/webpages/clips.html

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    Keep several Poll locations open as late as needed to pad the vote while letting all others close (Early- (and the new Late-) Voting trends)….

    I wonder what they call their version of ACORN there?!?!?

    The Democrats here, of course, don’t have to shut down media outlets and/or information flow as they control 95% of it. Wait, same as there – guess they figured out that the populace is getting the real news from that other 5% alternative. If only more Americans would wake up to it.