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Arizona, Washington, and the Failure of Comprehensive Legislation

There’s been an enormous amount of heat and not much light on the new Arizona immigration law. I lose track from time to time of which state the Left is hating at the moment – I believe in the past year or so we’ve been through at least Massachusetts, Louisiana, Texas, Alaska, Virginia and Arizona, but I could be missing a few – but the mostly emotional response from people who have no idea how the bill actually works has consisted in large part of Democrats and media liberals taking a break from lecturing us about calling people Nazis to go back to their traditional practice of calling people Nazis themselves. Despite this, or perhaps as the cause of it, polls have shown fairly strong support for the bill; Gallup shows a 51-39 lead for the bill nationally among people who have heard of it, Rasmussen shows 60% support nationally for the bill’s provisions and 70% support in Arizona, as well as surging approval ratings for Gov. Jan Brewer. It’s harder to get a fix on the reaction from Latinos; a Rasmussen poll seems to suggest a majority of Arizona Latinos also approve, while Markos Moulitsas is pushing PPP polling data suggesting a dropoff in support for Brewer among Latino voters.

In terms of the bill’s actual effects, Andrew McCarthy and Byron York shed some useful light on the real workings of the legislation, and I recommend you read both. There’s a lot more care that went into drawing this legislation up in response to public outcry in the state than the news reports might suggest.

I won’t rehash here the full scope ofall my views on immigration (I wrote here and here about the pros and cons of the McCain-Kennedy bill), save to say that I think I’m basically a moderate on the issue, and largely where Jonah Goldberg is. Like a lot of people on the Right, I’m comfortable with the basic idea that police who (1) have already stopped someone for other lawful reasons or (2) have very good reasons for suspecting that someone is an illegal immigrant should be able to check their citizenship status but do have some concerns that the law could end up leading to too many stops intended to check citizenship status without a particularly good reason. Matt Welch reasonably notes the plethora of justifications police already have for stopping a car, for example. McCarthy and York make clear that the law is carefully written to reduce that problem, but it’s a balancing act, and how the courts read the law’s definition of lawful contact will go a long way to working out whether the law makes things worse.

Overheated rhetoric aside, federal law already requires lawful permanent residents to carry ID, and the Democrats’ own legislation would create a national ID card for employment purposes, so we’re hardly dealing with a radical step here; what’s different in Arizona is mainly that the state is creating a mechanism to enforce laws that are already on the books. As it is, our immigration system is kind of a worst-of-all-worlds system, with largely draconian laws that are only sporadically enforced, and a Byzantine bureaucracy that discourages legal immigration while looking the other way at illegal immigration. Meanwhile, the Border Patrol suffers three assaults on an officer per day, among other problems created by the inability to control points of entry, while companies looking to hire legal immigrants face long waits for visas. As Marco Rubio – who is also sympathetic to the Arizona law’s goals but uneasy about how it will play out in practice – notes, we have come to the pass of states trying to enforce the law because the federal government has failed to handle any aspect of the problem correctly.

And the Democrats huffing and puffing about the Arizona bill are really not serious about immigration reform themselves. There’s little sign that comprehensive legislation could pass Congress today, and even left-wing sites acknowledge that the Democrats’ motives for bringing comprehensive bills back up now are more or less nakedly political. Kos is trying to play racial wedge politics on the issue in the hopes that Latino voters in Arizona will hold a grudge over this bill, while white voters in Arizona won’t hold a grudge against its critics. As for the President, Obama himself cast the deciding vote on a ‘poison pill’ amendment to McCain-Kennedy in 2007. And the hypocrisy doesn’t end there, as Mexican leadership brays about the law while Mexico’s own immigration laws are far more draconian and even explicitly permit the government to deny immigration if it would upset the racial/demographic balance of the nation.

The McCain-Kennedy bill was not, in fact, a good bill, but the Democrats aren’t proposing to fix any of its problems. What they should do, if they were really serious about fixing the system, is do what Bush should have done, and what Rubio is currently pushing – drop the whole business of trying to do yet another “comprehensive” thousand-page nobody-read-the-whole-thing bill, pass piecemeal (likely with strong bipartisan support) the various parts of McCain-Kennedy that had broad support – more border and employer enforcement, more visas, guest worker programs – and then if the Democrats want to, they can campaign on the narrow pieces that remain sticking points, most notably the “path to legalization”/”amnesty” parts of the bill. That is how a party serious about immigration would run things. The GOP failed that test in 2007, and Obama – imitating Bush’s and McCain’s mistakes – seems bent on failing it as well.

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COMMENTS

  • throwback59

    issue if you support more visas and guest worker programs. In addition to the influx of illegals, one million legal immigrants is far too many and should be drastically reduced.
    What we should really do (which will never happen) is reinstitute the strict quotas that existed before the 1965 Immigration Reform Act. What that terrible piece of legislation did was transform this nation from a uni-cultural European based nation into the multi-cultural mess we have today.
    Arizona took a tiny step to restoring a bit of sanity to the system.

    • aesthete

      then you might want to note that, firstly, the Iberian Peninsula *is* part of Europe. If you meant to say northern Europe, you’re still out of luck: Italians, Poles, Jews, Irish, and the whole gamut of immigrants from the 1800s would beg to differ with your definition of “unitary”. Add to those the recently freed blacks, Puerto Ricans, American Indians, Japanese and the Mexican Americans living in the annexed territories after the Mexican-American War, and it’s likely that we as a nation have spent more time as a “multi-cultural mess” than as a northern European power. At any rate, no one currently alive can claim to have lived in the day when the US was a majority norther European country.

      While I’ll refrain from reiterating the “hard-working immigrants” cliches, immigrants are mostly value adding, and judging by the immigration “problems” we’re having, equilibrium has yet to be reached. Moreover, illegal immigration will remain a problem until and unless paths to legal immigration are made more accessible.

      • throwback59

        referring to a general Euopean culture, which includes those dreaded “Southern ” Europeans, of which I’m descended.
        As late as 1965 about 90% of the US population could trace their ancestry to Europe. Now it’s around 60%. and dropping. As Pat Buchanan has often said, when did the American public vote to transform itself so fundamentally?

        • aesthete

          be thrilled that illegal immigration is increasing the number of people who can trace their ancestry to Europe (Spain is, after all, a part of Europe).

          I highly doubt the veracity of statistics that claim 90%, when blacks alone accounted for more than ten percent of the population.

    • kateusa

      I don’t believe we should simply be replacing illegal with more legal immigration. We have an incredibly generous immigration policy with the highest immigration levels ever due mainly to chain migration. However, we are on track to become the next China or India. We need a reduction in both legal and illegal immigration. The problem with guest workers is that with birthright citizenship, the guest workers would continue to have citizen children here, anchoring them in this country. This needs to be fixed if guest worker programs are to be truly temporary, and we also need to implement a visa exit system.

      Rather than haggle over another comprehensive amnesty bill, Senate Republicans ought to re-introduce Harry Reid’s ‘comprehensive’ Immigration Stabilization Act (of 1993) which would effectively deal with illegal immigration and correct most of the flaws in our current system. Once upon a time, when Harry Reid was against amnesty, he eloquently spoke about his bill on the Senate floor.

      • publiussteve

        Good points kateusa. We admit well over 1 million legal immigrants annually. Iit’s time to reduce this number to the historic levels that existed prior to the disastrous 1965 Immigration Act. We should have a welcoming immigration policy of fewer people based on needed skill sets for the national interest, not chain migration.

        Regarding illegal immigration, I cringe every time I hear the “since we can’t round them all up” we need to make them “learn English” etc., put them on a “path to citizenship,” but give them immediate legal status (see Reid scheme unveiled today). This is the same old amnesty scheme that we saw in 1986 and which Rush Limbaugh properly criticized today.

        The fact is mainstream leaders of the pro-enforcement side aren’t calling for mass deportations. Rather, as Professor Kris Kobach (one of the authors of AZ’s law) notes, if we enforce existing illegal immigration laws, a great number of illegal aliens will leave over time. We’re already seeing this attrition strategy work somewhat in AZ.

      • bay0wulf

        I believe that we should adopt a system of Immigration closely akin to Switzerland’s. I have no problem with “Quantity” but I think we need to focus on “Quality”. Keeping in mind that many of the immigrants we receive are “follow-on” to the initial admitee (relatives & etc) ….

        Anyway … I firmly believe …

        Applicants who are seriously considered should have useful, valuable trades, skills or professions that we have need of. They should have known and provable means of support/income. They should have proof of a means of support/income awaiting them when they arrive. They should have a reasonably clean criminal record.

        I am sure there are a few other items but … if they can fulfill these, I believe that we will be admitting Immigrants who would be a cresit to our Nation and help our Nation grow strong in aspects.

        I don’t think that they would have to meet ALL of the requirements but. like a survey, assign values to each point and when the answers are in, anyone scoring at least an “average” score … succeeds.

        NO more of this Immigrant arrives and then gets monies and special financial assistance right out of the box.

        Of course, we shouldn’t completely close the door to Political refugees and other similar, but … we really should slow things to a gentle stream rather than the raging river it appears to be today.

    • georgeinla

      that serves as fodder to those on the left that argue that people are only opposed to illegal immigration because of the fact that it involves brown people. For now, the main thing is that it doesn’t matter what kind of immigration system we have on paper if the majority of people are going to come in outside of that system. Once we have control of the flow of people into and out of the country, then we can start to argue about who should get in and who should not.

  • JamesSmith130

    The only thing that they want is the votes of the 12 million illegals. That’s all the Dims want (other than the votes of Latino citizens on this issue). The Dims are willing to compromise on much of the rest of the bill provided that they can get these votes.

  • aesthete

    The laws governing Federal IDs are subject to enforcement by a very limited number of individuals, reducing the chances for civil infringements. I’d also note that part of the reason that SB 1070 is so schizophrenic is because parts of the bill have been floating around and subsequently perfected for some time now (such as the employer sanctions). Other parts are either new or roundabout ways to enact the substance of the 2005 Real ID Act (which was smacked down by AZ voters when it was introduced). Other than that, fantastic post.

  • SteveLA

    Dan

    That sticky bit, “amnesty”, what is and is not the threshold for that particular term of art in your view?

    If I recall correctly from the failed immigration bill that was a major issue was that some of the hardliners pushing for a complete withdraw from this country for illegals with application at some unspecified location in the illegal’s home. Anything short of that was amnesty.

    Is that still where the line is drawn on the term amnesty or are there shades of gray? I’ve always questioned the logistics and cost of the return home to apply point of view, believing that the funding to really implement that system would never be found and such a program would be effectively a full deportation without any hope of return.

    I’m probably more of the pay a fine, get a background check, apply, go to the back of the line sort of point of view sort. Mostly because of a disbelief that the other approach would ever pass and the cost and logistics problems would doom the harder line to failure.

    • Dan McLaughlin

      My bottom line is, I’m fine with amnesty, I don’t object as a matter of principle…but the cost has to bite, it has to at least be the cost of a new car.

      • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
  • http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com katesmith

    Re: statement from commenter that illegal immigration will remain a problem unless/until paths to legal status are more accessible. I could easily see this statement being made by people like George Soros, David Rockefeller, and certain 24/7 media republicans. What the statement says is that chaos and anarchy long inflicted on American residents will continue indefinitely. That this has gone on for one minute is a crime. Do people who are fine with chaos and anarchy know that suffering and death of innocents is a guaranteed outcome, and if they happen to be in the area they would be on that list? The borders could easily be protected, that isn’t the problem. Other countries have found ways of handling it. If one doesn’t want to protect the border, that is a different matter.

    • aesthete

      “high fence, wide gate” maxim; that is, I would like to see reasonably secure borders and laws that prohibit the provision of non-essential government services and that penalize businesses that hire illegals. In addition, I would love to see much more immigration than we are currently seeing. That the US is the #1 country for accepting immigrants shouldn’t deter us from taking in more, it should instead be a lesson to other countries, and encouragement for the US to increase the number of immigration visas. I highly doubt that George Soros and David Rockefeller favor such an arrangement, but if they do, I have no problem with them agreeing with a really smart guy called aesthete, even if they’re wrong on everything else :)

    • Leopard1996

      He probably has the same investment arrangement he used to break England’s pound ready to go when the “open borders/Amnesty” thing bites us dead in the ass, and he will make billions, while we suffer under tons of govt debt.

  • youngmonte

    A couple of observations.

    First, regarding Hispanic support for measures that are tough on illegal immigrants, remember Arizona?s Prop 200 in 2004? It was modeled on California?s Prop 187 and essentially did three things: required proof of citizenship to vote, denied public benefits to illegal aliens, and required state workers to report illegal immigrants seeking benefits. As with SB1070, we were told the sky would fall. The proposition passed with 58% of the vote ? half of Hispanics voted for it (much to the chagrin of Rep. Raul Grijalva, who lamented, “There was no overwhelming rejection of Prop. 200 in the Latino community, and we knew that going in. I wish there would have been higher opposition than it was.”)

    In 2006, there were another 4 very tough propositions on the AZ ballot. They sought to deny bail to illegals, deny lawsuit awards to illegals, declare English the official language, and deny illegals in-state tuition. Again, the left howled and again AZ voters passed them overwhelmingly, with 77%, 74%, 74%, and 71% of the vote respectively. You don?t pass props in AZ with those kind of numbers without significant Hispanic support.

    There is a vast difference between the views and attitudes of legal Hispanics and the left on these issues, and based on past prop results in AZ, I would tend to believe Rasmussen?s numbers on SB1070 ? half of Hispanics support the new law. It would be interesting to see some actual polling to be sure.

    Second, a guest worker program would be the worst thing we could do on illegal immigration. Instead of getting into the many reasons why it?s a terrible idea, I?ll simply ask this question: Can you name one country that has a successful guest worker program? Answer: There are none. Germany, Spain, Switzerland, and others have all experimented with guest worker programs; all regret doing so; and all have ended them. Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia guest workers are treated no better than indentured servants or slaves. The US did have a guest worker program, the Bracero program, but it was ended by LBJ because it kept wages low and took jobs from Americans. The fact is, even though guest workers are supposed to be temporary, they never leave. As the old adage goes, ?there is nothing more permanent than a temporary worker.?

    The key to solving the problem of illegal immigration is to secure the border and crack down on the businesses that hire illegal aliens. As long as businesses face almost no penalty for hiring illegal aliens, they will continue to do so and the illegals will keep coming.

    • oltex2

      Everyone seems willing to place the burden on any businessman who needs to hire labor.
      There has been laws on the books for years making the hireing of undocumented labor illegal. We had to keep files of documents forever for every hire. Seems like since about 1975. There is now the E-Verify program that checks the legality of every worker seeking a job. It could be universal very easily, However it can’t seem to make it through congress. Wonder why?

    • http://thefiscals/blogspot kinggging

      I think you miss the point republicans. we have become a secular country because of liberalism..Divorce is massive after liberals passed no fault divorce in California 1968. abortion (80,000) last year in Florida alone is massive.. 40% do not pay taxes so why be productive or rich.. 54% high school drop out rate nationwide teacher?s union handbooks on teaching: only 1% have college degrees. It all started when liberalism to hold in 1952 Pat Brown Victory in California. Look at the facts. For the last 115 years Democrats have had the majorities in the US House of representatives for 82 of them..In that time there was one span from ?55-81 were all the damage was done in union labor law, public education and Criminal courts system nationwide.. smell the coffee? liberalism and independents minded are the problem. ?Real leaders apply their principles to their circumstances? – Gen. Patton. Change will come if we become a majority party for at least 20 straight. To do so , if republican ever want to be a majority party we must bring the future voter into the GOP they are brown and they will force upon the United States bi lingualism and eventually tri-lingualism. Start in florida with MARCO..RUBIO cuban heritage is anti communist and REPRESENTS only 4% OF THE BROWNS in the United States. American -Cubans and Cuban-Americans are the only hispanic that are republican in masse If you want a country that WANTS UNITED ‘AS ‘ STATES NOT UNITED ‘FOR’ THE CENTRAL STATE. vote for conservative hispanic if you can find them running for office at any level.. Please crackers see the big picture stop the disdain for the browns. Welcome now is how they will out reproduce you and form a third party

  • bay0wulf

    “… The problem with the USA is that there are too many (conservative) Americans. If we can’t MOVE them out we’ll OVERWHELM and BREED them out. …”

    OK so that is a paraphrase from Edward “Longshanks” in Braveheart. His Scotland didn’t stand for it and Scotland achieved its independence … at least temporarily.

    Seriously WHY would any Liberal or Progressive politician WANT to throw the illegals out? Amnesty makes all the sense in the world … Fast track to citizenship followed by a fast track to the polls & voting booth.

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine

      realized that the status quo chaos serves Dem purposes.

  • paulrph1

    I am wondering how many of the protesters are illegal? Is it legal for an illegal to protest? Are the protester really for America? Seems not! Are the protester corrupt just like Washington DC? 87% of illegals that come here already have a record. We are not getting the cream of the crop we are getting the bottom of the barrel.

  • bheld

    that refuses to keep its’ borders and protect its’ women will soon cease to be a country.