The Speaker of the House and the President have two options right now: hold and lose the vote in the House, or wait and vote after the Senate.
By my own count the Speaker and the President are light at least ten votes — and could be light as many as twenty three — depending on the dynamic on the House floor.
The problem is that some yes votes could get changed to no as the loss becomes apparent — why take a beating for a tough vote when the thing is going down?
Members of Congress will not take a beating, just for the sake of taking a beating. They will switch votes, and that is how you get to the fifty to fifty-five House Dems voting no.
The smart play for the Speaker is to don the robes of Mother Protector — I will save my House Members from Walking the Plank — we are waiting for the Senate to vote first. That way her House Members are protected against the bill dying in the Senate, without having taken a tough vote.
As one Senate Dem lobbyist told me yesterday, “Reid can get on the bill, he just can’t get off.” Translating from Washington-speak: Senator Reid can get past the filibuster of the motion to proceed, he just cannot end the filibuster against the bill itself. It is like Senator Reid’s own version of Hotel California hell — he can check in but he can never leave.
This is why the smart play for the Speaker and the White House is to punt. And Harry Reid’s offense takes the field.
Reid then takes the blame if he can’t get into the end zone. The Speaker merely points out the obvious: I was acting in the best political interest of my members. Why should we take tough votes on Medicare cuts, guns, immigration, abortion, taxes, spending, mandates (government control) and watch the Senate fail? (Again.)
But the continued forever quest for the holy-health care grail is making her look like Captain Ahab and the search for the Great White Whale — which in the end he found — it killed him, his ship and all but one of his crew.
If the reaction to waiting for the Senate is an acknowledgment that Senator Reid will fail, then this underlines even stronger the reason why the vote should wait — unless the goal really is to force the political death of some of the red state Democrats.
Failing is Succeeding
On the other hand, there are two arguments making the rounds in Washington about why the Speaker should have the vote, and lose the vote.
First, notwithstanding her dictum that she “does not like to show weakness,” she will first and foremost end the misery of the walking health care political nightmare she is living. Health care has divided her caucus, radically divided it. There are not just petty differences — but raw, unadulterated anger and hatred that you save for members of your own side. Some on the left want the Blue Dogs to lose and have argued that forcing a vote will insure losses by the Blue Dogs. (The Blue Dogs understand that they are hated in some quarters to the point of those doing the hating wish them dead, politically speaking.)
Her caucus is being ripped apart. She is living night and day health care pain, and has been for months. At some point you have to put down the razor blades and knives and stop your team from cutting itself anymore.
So, immediately ending the political pain for her team is the first result of losing the vote. The pain of losing will be shorter lived than the current poked-in-the-eye-with-a-sharp-stick-pain, where every opposed organized lobby and angry citizen just keeps pounding day and night on her and her flock, who in turn are fighting each other.
Second, losing the vote means her left wing base is intact in San Francisco and nationally. She took the risk, she delivered a liberal’s fantasy-health-reform bill to the progressives. It is not her fault that the left did not have the strength to pass it — she went well beyond the call of duty to try and get it passed.
Third, the country, just like the Speaker’s caucus, is continuing to be harmed by the uber-health care focus. There are other problems that need the attention of the U.S. House.
Finally, if the Speaker does not have the vote now, is waiting going to make getting the votes any easier? Or is waiting going to illustrate to everyone that the Speaker has never had the votes for her health care plan. She doesn’t have them now, and never did have the votes.
It is time, Madame Speaker, to act in the interest of your caucus and let them off the hook. Don’t force them to walk the plank. Wait for the Senate. Then again, perhaps saving Sen. Reid’s skin is more important to the Speaker than saving her own members from this brutal vote.
Kill this Bill
OneCleverCookie Saturday, November 7th at 10:30AM EST (link)Is there anyway possible for the House to just drive a stake into the heart of this freedom killing, money sucking Vampire of a bill? Chaos is reigning supreme while this bill has life.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
Winston Churchill
They conceded they don't have the votes
bk Saturday, November 7th at 10:36AM EST (link)by changing their minds and allowing the Stupak vote instead of the Ellsworth vote, correct? Do you think Stupak will pass, and if it does do you think the bill is still dead? If it passes, then the pro-choicers will still vote for HCR and the pro-lifers would pretty much have to, unless they are also blue dogs and vote against it strictly because of cost.
Like you say, the final vote tally doesn’t really matter - if it wins it might be with 218 but if it loses it will be with way more than 218.
What's the chance of any R. Votes?
SteveLA Saturday, November 7th at 10:48AM EST (link)Dan
What’s the chance of Nasty Nancy getting any R. votes in the house? If there is any chance, please post some names and contact information of the guilty parties.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity
Not. One.
IJB Saturday, November 7th at 11:00AM EST (link)I haven’t heard of one Republican in *either* Chamber who is even contemplating voting for the House Bill.
This is ‘93 Part Deux - the Dems won’t get a single GOP vote to help them out of this mess. Serves them right…
Figured so
SteveLA Saturday, November 7th at 11:30AM EST (link)How about some Blue Dog Democrats that need some help bucking up to face down Nasty Nancy?
Personal calls from Fred, SWMNBN, even ex-President Bush. What ever it takes to deliver a defeat to Nasty Nancy.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity
Cao
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 2:06PM EST (link)Cao is on the fence, per Michelle Malkin: http://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/5511056850
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Ironically
JoeG Saturday, November 7th at 2:41PM EST (link)Given his district, he may vote yes if defeat is certain.
And I think we should stay away from any criticism so long as it does go down.
There was One.
treeofliberty Saturday, November 7th at 11:14PM EST (link)Cao votes Yes the bill passes.
Dark day in America.
When ObamaCare voting begins, will Pelosi hold open the vote?
SoFiMil Saturday, November 7th at 10:58AM EST (link)I hope a reporter asks her to commit to have a standard 15 minute vote. If necessary, she can be reminded of her opposition to open votes. http://www.house.gov/pelosi/press/releases/Dec03/NormalRulesofDebate120803.html
(Parliamentary question: Do the rules allow for holding open a vote at this stage in the legislative bill?)
http://www.suvstrategery.blogspot.com
I'm worried about the Stupak Amendment
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 11:04AM EST (link)I think the floor vote on the Stupak Amendment changes this game exponentially. Stupak has been saying that he has 40 votes to kill this thing, without a vote on the amendment. Well, Pelosi is giving him that vote. Just strictly looking at the odds of the thing, I’d say that it is highly likely that at least 10 of those 40 (since they are 10 votes short) will be appeased and will cross over.
Yesterday, I’d say the gears in the House had pretty much ground to a halt. The people who were opposed to it were opposed to it, and the people who supported it supported it. This amendment though has popped the bean jar. There are more moving pieces now than 24 hours ago–more chances to pick off votes than before. If she only needs 10, then I’d say she probably has the ability to get them now.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Even if the amendment loses?
illinoisconservative Saturday, November 7th at 11:14AM EST (link)Are you saying if the amendment gets voted down, there will be 10 who still vote for the full bill?
I Want Stupak To Fail
DavidSage Saturday, November 7th at 1:08PM EST (link)If this bill has public funding for abortion, it’s much more likely the bill will fail altogether. If abortion funding is stripped, many blue dogs will hail that as enough of a compromise for them to vote for the bill.
If for whatever reason this bill passes, Democrats that voted for it will be WIPED out if they’re anywhere near a Red State. I want passage of this bill to be as politically damaging as possible for Democrats,
Even among pro-choice and middle of the road Americans, using taxpayer dollars to pay for abortion is a HUGE loser politically.
It hasn't got a prayer.
Menlo Saturday, November 7th at 2:25PM EST (link)The Stupak amendment, or identical amendments, failed by huge margins in every committee that voted on a version of the bill. Anyone who thinks it has even a slim chance of passing in Congress is deluding himself.
It is unfortunately not going to be a loser politically because the vast majority of voters, including those who would otherwise oppose the funding, do not care about it enough to let it impact their vote. The majority are not even opposed, according to Rasmussen.
“Guess which party these big insurance companies favor? Big companies love big government.” -Ann Coulter
Your Forgetting Republican Votes
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 2:52PM EST (link)Mutliple sources ay Stupak has 220. The GOP lifers + Blue Dog Dems + Dems who will support anything to get a bill passed.
Its not that haard
Not Dead Yet!
No I am not
Menlo Saturday, November 7th at 7:55PM EST (link)The committees had proportional representation. There were not enough pro-life members. Of course, now we find out at least four supposedly “pro-life” Republicans will vote against it in some dumb “strategic” move. Even Stupak himself would not vote against the bill if the amendment fails, making it the dumbest argument I’ve heard.
“Guess which party these big insurance companies favor? Big companies love big government.” -Ann Coulter
There is some buzz that is the case n/t
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 1:13PM EST (link)nt
Not Dead Yet!
That Stupak's Amendment Will Fail? (nt)
DavidSage Saturday, November 7th at 1:15PM EST (link)Not That It Will Fail; But The Good Faith Effort Will Sway Them
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 1:36PM EST (link)There wasa fight to get it on the floor, which required the Bishops and the vote to pass, which has an un-hill climb.
Dems are hoping their good will gestrue will allow their reps to say “they fought the good fight” but had to vote yes because of the “historic” nature.
Not Dead Yet!
Stupak himself
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 1:56PM EST (link)has said that all he wanted was a vote. Even if it fails, he will vote for the bill itself, because he got his vote. I’m guessing there are probably at lest 10 (or close enough to 10) of those 40 who feel the same way.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
well, cr@ap.. ok.. thanks
illinoisconservative Saturday, November 7th at 4:15PM EST (link)I have a feeling this bill will pass then. Obama has been working them all and promising who knows what to get their vote.. grrrrr.
Debate (?) on the floor::Circus is on cspan now. nt
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 11:12AM EST (link)“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
I will be down in DC at 1:00 to have my say and...
JadedByPolitics Saturday, November 7th at 11:13AM EST (link)I called Connelly’s office to visit but they say he will be on the floor all day…I said fine I will come visit with you all for a little bit!
WE MUST STOP THIS ATROCITY!!!!!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
You gotta watch Dingell on the house floor
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 11:20AM EST (link)right now on C-Span. It is a circus.
Cr@p, I missed it ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 1:05PM EST (link)but the wonderfully exceptional (and good lookin’) David Drier is speaking now. I heart DD.
Ugh. Louise Slaughter (if only someone would) is yakking away …
Oh yeah, Dingell’s talking now - why is his face crooked? How old is this guy? Shouldn’t he be retired?
If I was from another country and was watching this on C-Span, I would have absolutely no idea what was going on …. heck, I can’t tell what going on.
You gotta watch Dingell on the house floor
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 11:20AM EST (link)right now on C-Span. It is a circus.
Mark Schauer (Mich.) NRCC quickly pounced on Schauer's support of bill
djemi Saturday, November 7th at 11:31AM EST (link)According to the Hill.com here
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/66091-current-house-healthcare-bill-whip-count
and the call I just made to his DC office, told the intern that if he does vote Yes I ‘ll do everything in my power to unseat him, the clown voted Yes on Cap and Tax claiming it would bring 3000 jobs to the district.
I do hope that John Boehner pull the same stunt as with C&T but this time goes all out and reads the most erroneous parts out loud until he drops from exhaustion. Can you imagine him reading from the 2000+ pgs for 24 or more hours, that would be something to see on C-Span
“If I can’t shoot rabbits,then I can’t shoot fascist”
“With age, comes Wisdom, but only if you are paying Attention, son” my ‘Old Man’
RS Help files (h/t JLenardDetroit) Grassroots in Michigan
Moes Strategy
I doubt the Stupak amendment changes anything...
writeblock Saturday, November 7th at 11:33AM EST (link)If the amendment goes down to defeat–which is the most likely scenario–most of the pro-life caucus will still vote against the bill. Their opposition will hold.
Another significant development: a lot of undecideds are publicly announcing they are voting no–and they’re not all blue dogs or freshmen. Seems like they are acknowledging which way the political winds are blowing generally across the nation.
At this point I don’t think Pelosi cares. She wants the thing over with one way or another since she already knows it’s hopeless in the Senate. Meanwhile this monstrosity is killing all Democrats politically and she knows it. It’s losing the Independents. It’s losing the seniors. It’s losing the suburbs.
There just is no percentage in keeping up the charade, especially since the President offers so little politcal cover and is himself losing altitude. So she’s taking a chance and hoping for the best but expecting the worse.
Interesting article by BETSY MCCAUGHEY in WSJ
blaze422 Saturday, November 7th at 11:43AM EST (link)http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704795604574519671055918380.html
A FEW HIGHLIGHTS……….
On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.
Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.
• Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a “qualified plan” for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.
• Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what’s called a “medical home.”
The medical home is this decade’s version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to “disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis.”
• Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.
• Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs. For example, grants for nursing schools should “give preference to programs that provide for improving the diversity of new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population.” And secondary-school grants should go to schools “graduating students from disadvantaged backgrounds including racial and ethnic minorities.”
• Sec. 305 (p. 189) Provides for automatic Medicaid enrollment of newborns who do not otherwise have insurance.
So, who is still on the fence ?
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 11:39AM EST (link)I’ll start calling, faxing and emailing if someone will throw up an updated list.
I got a list from the Young Republicans - conservative coalition; but I’m not sure if that is still good today.
Throw me a bone redstaters, i’ll go fetch it !
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
AK - Davis - against.
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 11:46AM EST (link)Artur Davis - AK - is voting against as of 11:44am as told to me by his office.
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
AK is Alaska and there's no Davis in Congress. nt
Achance Saturday, November 7th at 11:55AM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
Artur Davis Alabama I think they mean <NT>
PaRep Saturday, November 7th at 12:06PM EST (link)Davis is in Congress
chbroussard Saturday, November 7th at 12:38PM EST (link)Yes, Artur Davis IS in Congress, representing the state of Alabama.
No Davis representing AK nt
Achance Saturday, November 7th at 1:53PM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
says Davis - AK on my YR list.
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 2:34PM EST (link)thats all i know and as “skicougar”; i know AK is Alaska.
i’m up to 25 calls today, “how you doin’ ?”
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
Politico's Morning List of Undecideds; Support Kos?
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 12:34PM EST (link)http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/The_Undecideds__Where_the_fate_of_the_bill_rests_.html
The nutroots are “whipping” his own against the Stupach amendment. I hope the succeed. There’s about a dozen swing votes hinging on the amendment. They worked all night on it and got approval from local Bishops.
Not Dead Yet!
Hmm, this is interesting
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 12:45PM EST (link)Cuellar and Ciro D Rodriguez still undecided. Hmm, I wonder that will last.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
Everyone grab this pdf file and start e-mailing it out and faxing it to those dems sitting on the fence
izoneguy Saturday, November 7th at 11:46AM EST (link)http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10710/hr3962Dingell_mgr_amendment_update.pdf
Senator Gregg: Updated CBO Estimate of House Bill Pulls Back the Curtain on Majority’s Intent to Grow Government by $3 Trillion
Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH), ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee today commented on the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) more detailed cost estimate of the manager’s amendment to the House health reform bill.
Senator Gregg stated, “The CBO estimate released last night finally sheds light on the smoke and mirrors game the majority has been playing with the cost of their health care reform proposal. Over the first 10 years, this legislation builds in gross new spending of $1.7 trillion – and most of the new spending doesn’t even start until 2014. Once that spending is fully phased in, the House Democratic bill rings up at more than $3 trillion over ten years.
“Additionally, this bill cuts critical Medicare and Medicaid funding by $628 billion, accounts for nearly $1.2 trillion in tax and fee increases and will explode the scope of government by putting the nation’s health care system in the hands of Washington bureaucrats. The $3 trillion price tag defies common sense – we simply cannot add all this new spending to the government rolls and claim to control the deficit.
“If we continue to pile more and more debt on the next generation, they will never be able to get out from under it. The health care system needs reform, but this massive expansion of government, financed by our children and grandchildren, is the wrong way to proceed.”
“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson
Keep Melting the Telephones Lines
PaRep Saturday, November 7th at 11:49AM EST (link)In Wash. & home districts
Kill
frammis Saturday, November 7th at 11:49AM EST (link)Yes, kill medicare too. No socialists allowed. No gvt programs, no osha, army, navy, either. No vets. OK?
Idiot......
makemyday Saturday, November 7th at 12:00PM EST (link)‘nough said
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
TurdBall Lib ALERT !!!
PaRep Saturday, November 7th at 12:01PM EST (link)1 Day & 16 hours worth of Membership down the Drain
You, sir, must be an idiot.
roscopico Saturday, November 7th at 12:09PM EST (link)Call in the blam-stick.
Im Himmel gibt’s kein Bier…
Imagine there's no lefties. Hey, sounds like a song! nt
Achance Saturday, November 7th at 12:14PM EST (link)In Vino Veritas
Calling pest control....
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 12:16PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
What do you have against veterinarians?
janis Saturday, November 7th at 12:21PM EST (link)And I’ve got 6 cats, 4 dogs, 6 horses, and umpty dozen chickens who are smarter than you are. Hell, I’ve got driveway gravel that’s smarter than you are.
HEY !!! wehere's My Scooby Snacks you Promised
PaRep Saturday, November 7th at 12:22PM EST (link)HMMMMMMMMMM ???
By the Way Hi Janis
Hiya, PaRep. Good to see you around again.
janis Saturday, November 7th at 12:35PM EST (link)Did your paws heal okay? As for your Scooby Snacks, they were found to contain transfats and the Chief Marxist had them confiscated. They are coming out with a new line of doggy treats which has been approved by PETA.
Can I assume that you will now change your snack preferences? Been thinking of putting out my own line of doggy chew snacks, Shaped like Obama and containing all the transfats and meat byproducts that I can stuff in them. Ought to be a hit, don’t you think?
Paws Are A OK !!
PaRep Saturday, November 7th at 12:38PM EST (link)I Don’t Care You PROMISED ME SCOOBY SNACKS DARN IT!!
Now I am going to hold my breath till I get them hahaha
Janis- I've got 4 dogs, and, people think I've lost my mind
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 4:59PM EST (link)Did you hear one of the Republican members today question why there was a provision in the bill for Veterinarian loan forgiveness, and, the gentlewoman from NY, Slaughter (her name for real) answered him by saying “have you heard of the swine flu sir.” It was a classic.
Janis- I've got 4 dogs, and, people think I've lost my mind
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 4:59PM EST (link)Did you hear one of the Republican members today question why there was a provision in the bill for Veterinarian loan forgiveness, and, the gentlewoman from NY, Slaughter (her name for real) answered him by saying “have you heard of the swine flu sir.” It was a classic.
Yawn. Blam. (nt)
Neil Stevens Saturday, November 7th at 12:30PM EST (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Thank you Neil
makemyday Saturday, November 7th at 12:49PM EST (link)n/t
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Kill
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 1:33PM EST (link)Your extremely intelligent opinion, insight, and sarcasm in this matter. And all matters for the record …
TN - Gordon - against.
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 11:53AM EST (link)TN Bart Gordon - is voting against as of 11:52am as told to me by his office.
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
Don't count on it
PaRep Saturday, November 7th at 12:21PM EST (link)http://tinyurl.com/y9ng37p
Gordon's in a pretty conservative district. If there's
janis Saturday, November 7th at 12:22PM EST (link)any way he can vote “No”, he’ll take it. But I think he’s going to get primaried anyway. 12 terms is 8 too many.
FNC Says That Jim Cooper Is a "Yes" Vote
IJB Saturday, November 7th at 2:26PM EST (link)And, unfortunately, with his district, he’ll probably still survive even with a ‘Yes’ vote.
Most of the rest of the TN Dems probably aren’t nearly as solid…
C'mon Moby dick...
larryp Saturday, November 7th at 11:55AM EST (link)eat the Donk Crew, every last one.
That is one of the funniuest lines that Dan wrote
Great coverage . I had no idea allthis isgoing on. Isn’t the MSM
stupid notto coverthis blow-by-blow. The greatest story. Next to
all the stories in IRaq of Our troops. Never covered all those evernts over
the last 6 yrs. Stupid.
I just seen on TV where the leader of ACORN
bobojake Saturday, November 7th at 12:16PM EST (link)has went over to the House of Representatives to kick some tires with deadfish. deadfish and axlerod must of not got the job done.
OK, what's your take.......
makemyday Saturday, November 7th at 12:54PM EST (link)on the post President meeting with the democratic leadership? Smiles of contentment or resolve? Do they have the votes or are they still short but hopeful?
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Looked like a scared rabbit to me ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 1:40PM EST (link)Seemed like Obama almost broke into a run after all the handshaking was completed.
Then, the press conference was just a bunch of blustering and fawing over the GREATEST PRESIDENT EVAH TO GRACE THIS PLANET AND OTHERS WE DON’T KNOW EXIST BUT IF THEY DO EXIST THEY’D LOVE HIM SO MUCH TOO!
They don’t have the votes, it seems to me. But I’m not overly hopeful - you can’t trust any of these Dems.
Ooops ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 1:42PM EST (link)fawning.
Obama's Pep Talk Has Them Juiced
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 1:07PM EST (link)… all accounts, Obama’s rah, rah behind the scenes talk this afternnon has Dems buzzing with optimism. All emotion, no facts.
Kill this bloody thing.
Not Dead Yet!
This thing will win by 1-3 votes or it will lose by 30. This will be fun to watch!! nt
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 1:12PM EST (link)“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Send a copy of the constitution
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 1:23PM EST (link)to every member of congress you contact today. Here’s a link from the Cato Institute that you can download and attach to your e-mail or I guess that you could copy and paste and put in the body of the e-mail. Whatever.
This is also good for future e-mails.
http://www.catostore.org/pdfs/PocketConstitution.pdf
Politico Is Officially Drunk On ObamaCare
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 1:24PM EST (link)Their reporting is getting worse and worse from their coverage of the Bishops to Obama’ pep talk, one word: PATHETIC.
Not Dead Yet!
O in rose garden sounded perfunctary. No fire. nt
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 1:27PM EST (link)“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
Yeah, he didn't sound too confident
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 1:53PM EST (link)at all. Just the perfunctory statements about this is a historical moment, etc. and how the members in the house should pass this bill for all Americans.
Sounded really tired and out of gas to me.
4 Hours of general debate
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 1:49PM EST (link)will be taking place now (on C-Span).
Now everybody is applauding Dingell for surviving this blowhard process.
Why is this guy still alive, er, I mean still around? Who keeps voting for this decrepit skeleton? How does he campaign? Is there a crypt in his office? Is he a vampire, a member of the living dead? Oh, yeah, that goes without saying, he’s a Democrat. My bad.
The Longer The Better
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 1:58PM EST (link)The Dems need emotion and energy. Any sober reflection will dim all the morning hype about history.
Not Dead Yet!
Dan-how do you know they don't have votes
CajunKate Saturday, November 7th at 1:59PM EST (link)I hope to goodness sakes you’re right but everything I’ve read this morning seems to point to the Dems having the votes. Wondering where you get your info.
Pence concedes defeat
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 2:19PM EST (link)according to Politico
Which article ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 2:24PM EST (link)are you referring to?
Politoco article
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 2:33PM EST (link)Its under LIve Pulse
Doubt That
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 2:26PM EST (link)… if so, its probably a strategic front. Many Dems wont to vote no for personal reasons, but want the bill to pass. If they think passage is inevitable, more will vote no to save their hides.
That’s the only reason I think Pence would concede anything. Most figures, I’ve seen have Dems about ten short, but gaining fast.
Not Dead Yet!
Mike McCintyre Official No nt
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 2:20PM EST (link)Not Dead Yet!
Rep. Clyburn's talking now ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 2:20PM EST (link)following Steny Hoyer. Look out folks, lots of personal letters will be read today.
While Hoyer was speaking, I found a special video via HotAir. You can start it any time a Democrat starts speaking. It’s kind of symbolic.
Caution: it could offend people but is funny.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11yc7_robot-libido_fun
I keep hearing applause from the gallery
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 2:29PM EST (link)after each republican speaks. Jaded, is that you?
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
Game Changer: Stupak Says He Has 220
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 2:35PM EST (link)Wow. Massa is off. Kucinich is close. I can’t believe I rooting for a liberal backash on a socialist bill.
Not Dead Yet!
Waxman just stated the language of
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 2:39PM EST (link)the stupak amendment, if passed, is NOT guaranteed to survive after passage of the bill.
Boehner just nailed it to the church door.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
I Hope It Resonates
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 2:46PM EST (link).. but I doubt it. The pro-life Dems are just looking for a moral victory. As long as Stupak and Ellsworth and Co. make some headlines fighting for life, they will end up voting for the bill.
Not Dead Yet!
Is Boehner threatening to vote no on Stupak?
bk Saturday, November 7th at 3:06PM EST (link)I think that would be a bad move. Stupak’s folks could say we got the vote we wanted and the GOP killed it, so screw ‘em.
Nope. Just exposing it for the
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 3:16PM EST (link)fig leaf it may become once the bill is passed by the house.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
Game Changer
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 2:42PM EST (link)for bill to pass or fail
Changes The Whole Dynamics; But Probably Bad
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 2:44PM EST (link)Its bad, but we dont know if their will be any liberal revolt.
Not Dead Yet!
Sorry for my ignorance,
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 3:05PM EST (link)but if bill would fail without abortion admendment why wouldn’t the republicans vote against the admendment to kill the whole bill
I think it's because of fear of backlash
NDPhog Saturday, November 7th at 3:20PM EST (link)The thinking is that if the GOP votes no on the amendment, it gives some democrats more cover to say that the GOP is just trying to gum things up.
Principle
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 3:30PM EST (link)Its not definitive that the Stupak Amendment will automatically close the deal. It should give Pelosi more votes though.
In the end, your asking the GOP leadership to get all Republicans to betray their conscience, support government funded abortion to make a Machavellian vote that may or may not have difference.
Not Dead Yet!
I think Republicans Should Be Machavellian...
DavidSage Saturday, November 7th at 4:10PM EST (link)and vote against Stupak’s amendment.
The pro-life leadership and those “in the know” will understand what’s going on, and that it’s a poison bill to kill the entire bill. You’re best bet to stop publicly funded abortions is to kill the entire bill. I can easily see language for publicly funded abortions being reinserted during reconciliation.
I don’t see any Democrat challenger that’s going to run against a Republican and effectively be able to use this vote against them. I also don’t see pro-life political groups beating any Republican over the head for this vote who otherwise have solid pro-life credentials.
To me this is a game of chess, and I’m willing to give up a pawn in order to capture their King.
lolol! swamp. Why bs and scope fightin eh? guys ... com'n. Pray instead. nt
Rod_Patrick Saturday, November 7th at 10:08PM EST (link)only 15 Ds vote nay on the Rules vote
pilgrim Saturday, November 7th at 3:00PM EST (link)only 15 Ds fear voters more than Pelosi
Jason Altmire (D - PA-04)
Brian Baird (D-WA-03)
Dan Boren (D-OK-02)
Bobby Bright (D-AL-02)
Travis W. Childers (D -MS-01)
Artur Davis (D - AL-07)
Parker Griffith (D-AL-05)
Frank M. Kratovil, Jr. (D-MD-01)
Jim Marshall (D - GA-08)
Charlie Melancon (D-LA-03)
Walt Minnick (D-ID-01)
Loretta Sanchez (D - CA-47)
Heath Shuler (D - NC-11)
Ike Skelton (D - MO-04)
Gene Taylor (D-MS-04)
It is a great advantage to a president, and a major source of safety to the country, for him to know that he is not a great man.Calvin Coolidge
Allan Boyd = No
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 3:05PM EST (link)26 down, 15 to go.
Not Dead Yet!
Swamp Yankee
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 3:07PM EST (link)how are finding out who is voteing no
Various Sources
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 3:12PM EST (link)… its the age of twitter. Politico has a reliable count, but its about an hour behind.
Chet Edwards announced on his homepage.
http://edwards.house.gov/
Not Dead Yet!
Chet Edwards = No
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 3:09PM EST (link)27 down, 14 to go
Not Dead Yet!
Looks like
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 3:33PM EST (link)Baird will vote no also look at his web page
Saw That: Baird = No; And He Actually Seems Like Conscientous Dem (Hard To Find)
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 3:39PM EST (link)28 and 13
http://www.baird.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1041&Itemid=99
Not Dead Yet!
Politico
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 3:43PM EST (link)just added Barrow
Dropping Like Flies: 29 Dem Nayes and 12 To Go
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 3:45PM EST (link)High Drama.
Not Dead Yet!
Swavmp Yankee, are you talking about no votes
Cheryl Saturday, November 7th at 3:48PM EST (link)for the health bill or the stubek amendent?
Hard "No' For The Actual Bill: Stupak's Numbers Are Going Up He's at 225 Now
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 3:56PM EST (link)Hard numbers look good. But Stupak is looking bad, a major obstacle.
Without Stupak, this thing would be dead.
I hope there is a minor liberal revolt of four or five reps. Kucinich could bail.
Not Dead Yet!
Hard to see anyone on the far left like Kucinich bailing
bk Saturday, November 7th at 6:23PM EST (link)no matter what the bill says about anything.
Kabuki theater.
swami7774 Saturday, November 7th at 4:06PM EST (link)The Pelosicrats will win this with 218 votes. Down-to-the-wire, but the “strong lady of the House persevered”, blah blah blah. The Clintons played this same game during their first 2 years.
Of course, this whole thing dies when it moves through the Rotunda to the upper chamber.
Donnelly, Ellsworth
hoosierdad Saturday, November 7th at 4:10PM EST (link)I’ve never called any Congressman’s office except my own (Mark Souder!) but I am so worked up about this I had to pick up the phone.
Just called Donnellly’s DC office and left a message. Tried Ellsworth’s office also and got “this mailbox is full” — is anyone even around to get a message? How do we continue to voice our concerns at this time?
Good Question
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 4:15PM EST (link)Probably too little too late, considering half the base is still stuck on election analysis and 2010.
Not Dead Yet!
Hoosierdad
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 4:28PM EST (link)Donnelly is my district, and I called him this morning. His staffer said he STILL has not made a decision. When I asked her when we will know (since the vote is mere hours away), she told me that I can find out after the vote. So, I’m guessing he’s gonna decided on the floor. He’ll probably watch the vote tally and that will factor in to his final choice. If its close, or losing slightly, he will probably vote no.
I met with him personally this week, and he said that he is very uncomfortable with this whole ordeal and that he is upset with the House leadership with how radical things have gone. I would be surprised if he was a Yes vote on this. But that is just my take, given his past voting habits and his uneasy feelings from this week.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
More Donnelly
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 4:55PM EST (link)Just called his office again. He does not have a decision yet. He is waiting for the outcome of the Stupak amendment (which he will vote for). I asked the staffer if she thought the amendment would push him towards voting yes on the bill if it passed, and she said that “it would be a step in the right direction, yes.”
Not good.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
The Stupak 40
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 4:10PM EST (link)According to Stupak, 20 of the 40 will vote with Pelosi regardless, 15 will vote against regardless, I guess 5 are for pickins.
Not Dead Yet!
Baron Hill
hoosierdad Saturday, November 7th at 4:14PM EST (link)Just called Baron Hill’s DC office too. There is a recorded message from a staffer which says, “We are experiencing larger than average call volumes” — I bet! But his mailbox is full also!
Anyone faxing?
I'd call my rep, but....
swami7774 Saturday, November 7th at 4:19PM EST (link)….my rep is Bill Delahunt.
’nuff said.
Don't Feel Too Bad Cape and Islander
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 4:21PM EST (link)…. I’m down the road in Barney Frank land.
Not Dead Yet!
Yeesh.
swami7774 Saturday, November 7th at 4:23PM EST (link)Not sure which of us has the worst of that pairing.
David Scott just played the "pass it for Kennedy" and 'Arc of history' card.
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 4:19PM EST (link)History must have Congressional members on it speed-dial; all I get is telemarketers….
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
"efficient, concise healthcare program..." as she waves the 2000 page bill around. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 4:22PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Tim Holden - no
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 4:26PM EST (link)told to me at 4:15 today.
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
Nice Catch For Us
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 4:30PM EST (link)if confirmed, 30 hard nayes.
Not Dead Yet!
Harry Mitchell - voting for.
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 4:36PM EST (link)Harry Mitchell - AZ is voting yes according to his staffer - told to me as of 4:20pm.
if you live in Scottsdale, you may want to hammer away at his staff. if this passes, life could become miserable for many of us; might as well make it miserable for them now.
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
Mitchell is Toast
DavidSage Saturday, November 7th at 6:56PM EST (link)That’s a district that has a 10 point Republican registration advantage, and it overwhelmingly went for McCain.
If Mitchell voted for this health care bill, he must have a death wish.
Vote Sceduled For At Least 9:00 P.M.
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 4:27PM EST (link)Here’s The Schedule
* General debate will continue for about three more hours
* Debate on the Stupak anti-abortion amendment
* Debate on the Republican health care substitute
* Votes on the Stupak amendment and the GOP substitute
* Debate on the “motion to recommit,” a procedural move used by the minority party
* Vote on the motion to recommit
* Vote on the full bill
They are hoping for 9:00, but if this gets pushed into the wee hours. It is possible that they may have to re-schedule for tommorow.
I guess it is worthwhile to keep fighting and also Patrick Murphy sucks
Not Dead Yet!
Stupak amendment -- GOP stealth option?
hoosierdad Saturday, November 7th at 4:43PM EST (link)If the conventional wisdom is that if the Stupak amendment passes, it gives cover for pro-life Dems to vote for the entire bill….would it even be a procedural option for the GOP caucus to vote against the Stupak amendement to ensure defeat of the entire bill?
Or do they risk voting against the Stupak amendment and the entire d*mn bill passes anyhow?
Or could anyone as a prolifer even vote against conscience in the name of procedure??
Here's my count as of 4:45
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 4:45PM EST (link)I’ve looked at various sources around the web (NRO, The Hill, Politico, etc.) and put a big list together of the combined Noes and Lean Noes from those sites. Here’s the no votes, from what I gather:
1. Adler
2. Barrow
3. Boren
4. Boyd
5. Bright
6. Childers
7. Artur Davis
8. Edwards
9. Gordon
10. Griffith
11. Herseth-Sandlin
12. Holden
13. Kissell
14. Kosmas
15. Kratovil
16. Lipinksi
17. McIntyre
18. Marshall
19. Massa
20. Matheson
21. McMahon
22. Melancon
23. Minnick
24. Nye
25. Peterson
26. Ross
27. Skelton
28. Tanner
29. Taylor
30. Teague
Lean-No:
1. Altmire
2. Baird
3. Boccieri
4. Boucher
5. Costa
6. Lincoln Davis
By my count, there are 36 members that are prepared to vote against this as of 4:45. The Hill lists a good 25 members that are still undecided. I’m not expert, but I think there is a good chance that the opposition can steal at least 5 of those 25, no?
If the sources have these numbers right, I think we are close to killing this thing. We still have to get passed the Stupak amendment, so that variable is still in play. We shall see.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Eric Cantor
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 4:59PM EST (link)says on twitter that the “firm no” votes are now at 31. So there is another vote against this bill, bringing the No “realm” to 37. He did not say who it was though.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Boucher is the new no vote, per Cantor
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 5:04PM EST (link)He has moved from “lean no” into the “firm no.”
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Baird I Believe
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 5:06PM EST (link)is a no vote. Did he say anything about if he thought anymore may vote no?
leaning no's.
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 5:05PM EST (link)of your lean no list:
1. Altmire
2. Baird
3. Boccieri
4. Boucher
5. Costa
6. Lincoln Davis
i couldnt get thru to 3 thru 6 in DC. i guess i’ll hammer away locally.
hadnt called 1 and 2 yet. theyre not on the politico list posted here this a.m.
in the 40’s on calls now. yes, i am en fuego ! (i wonder if i’ll have to use that word over “on fire” when i call 911 if this passes.)
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
I think Altmire and Baird will vote nay
pilgrim Saturday, November 7th at 5:15PM EST (link)They are 2 of the 15 Ds that voted nay on the rules vote I posted upthread
http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2009/11/07/todays-house-vote-by-the-numbers/#comment-2410
It is a great advantage to a president, and a major source of safety to the country, for him to know that he is not a great man.Calvin Coolidge
Rangel lecturing Boenher on ethics? Laughable. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 4:47PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Yes, and today the Dems
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 4:51PM EST (link)have rendered the word “historic” totally meaningless.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
Just called Altmire's
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 4:53PM EST (link)office they say he still does not know how he will vote.
then he has a price IMO.
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 5:11PM EST (link)I wonder of the people in congress that have been caught with prostitutes, which feel dirtier “afterwards”.
He’s just a gigolo and everywhere he goes…
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
"This is a freedom-killing bill" - Reichert
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 5:10PM EST (link)And his opposition goes on without a second thought.
I’m quitting C-SPAN; the Democrats are starting to tick me off.
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
if Stupak passes...
hoosierdad Saturday, November 7th at 5:18PM EST (link)Then is there a chance that enough die hard libs will vote against the bill?
[HOPE and CHANGE thinking here!]
Why don't the Repubs just vote
CajunKate Saturday, November 7th at 5:31PM EST (link)PRESENT! That way they don’t vote against their conscience but they still could stop HCR.
Some Dem congresswoman...
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 5:31PM EST (link)just said thank you democrats for standig strong on the House floor.
WTH ?
if the democrats were standing strong, the house would have passed this already and I could take the, “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” philosophy and consider any attempts to stay healthy or lengthen my life to be for nothing and commence to beer, pizza and ice cream as staples and excercise be darned !
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
Politico reporting
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 5:46PM EST (link)that the democrats have 218 locked up
if so,
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 6:05PM EST (link)i’m going to quit calling and start drinking.
(and I wish I would have sold out of some stocks Friday, the market is not going to like this on Monday. Down 250 on the Dow would not suprise me.)
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
but the stock market isn't an opinion poll. /snark nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 6:12PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Dems say they have 218
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 5:46PM EST (link)per Politico: http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/Dems_sources_218_is_on_the_way.html?showall
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Cantor: 33 Dem No votes now
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 5:56PM EST (link)http://twitter.com/BDayspring/statuses/5516913639
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Of course they will pass this beast, pyrrhic victory, make the Kos bloggers happy..nt
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 6:41PM EST (link)“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Those Seeking A Pyrric Victory Are Delusional
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 6:52PM EST (link)…. its a lousy play.
Not Dead Yet!
It is stupid...just an effort by D's to placate their progressive base.
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 6:58PM EST (link)Very stupid but they always do it when they are in power. They are over reaching and have not learned that this nation is not center left!!
“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
You can ever get to see that
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 7:01PM EST (link)they really live in a parallel universe that seems what we have but only has the viewpoint that they have.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
They don't realize that the problem with socialism is
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 7:03PM EST (link)that you eventually run out of other peoples money. Of course they will just try and print more!
“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Well for them your is their money as well as their money
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 7:06PM EST (link)so that what think. See if we had real conservatives this wouldn’t be happening.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
yep, GWB's compassionate conservatism helped bring about this mess
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 7:09PM EST (link)and I feel guilty that I actually fell for it and supported it.
“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Well it's part of the problem
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 7:40PM EST (link)but it never slowed down there spending anyways, it help makes it bigger and more palatable.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
Correction: It's can't instead of can. Major problem with the fingers. -nt-
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 7:04PM EST (link)For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
Not About Elections; Its about the Republic
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 7:07PM EST (link)Its about governance and the Republic. You realize that we are Joe Lieberman veto away from 1/5 of fthe economy being swallowed up in government excess. Million of people of the government dole, thousands of government jobs. People want to celebrate because it means we pick up a few House seats, so what.
We are not going to pick up 60+ hard core conservative Seantors, 220+ hard core conservative reps.
This program stays, probably forever. Play election politics if you find that more entertaining. Some of us are trying to save the Republic.
Not Dead Yet!
Right on..
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 7:26PM EST (link)I don’t care about elections right now…I care about the Enumerated Powers in the Constitution..I could not find National Health Insurance in there.
“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Of we have people that don't care about constitution anyways
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 7:41PM EST (link)that all agree on spending money that they never should.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
I Agree
crosley Saturday, November 7th at 8:19PM EST (link)Do they need Lieberman? Can’t they go around the filibuster with reconciliation, only needing a simple majority? I don’t see them getting 60, but I could easily see them getting 50.
Conservatives are deluding themselves if they think Republicans are going to overturn this so quickly. If that were true, they would have gotten rid of Medicaid a long time ago.
Betsy Markey Update
gnomechumpsky Saturday, November 7th at 6:48PM EST (link)I’m told by her office that she recognizes that this bill reduces the deficit. She is caving although they won’t say how she will vote.
Incredible.
Hell they won’t say how she voted after the vote. C’mon Northern Colorado - we need better than this.
If she votes yes...
skicougar Saturday, November 7th at 7:26PM EST (link)i’m taking my name “skicougar” and skipping out on Colorado to ski. No more Texas oil money from this ski fanatic into that state.
Man, a a two for one tonight: college football and House dog and pony show. Wish Obama would give me some of his Obamamoney so I could buy another TV.
Eat ‘em up Houston Cougars !
Read on Twitter
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 7:07PM EST (link)there are now 34 no’s
Not Over Until The Botox Lady Sings;
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 7:11PM EST (link)Dems may be pushing false optimism. The closer it gets, the more weight each vote carries. Blue Dogs cant hide behind inertia or irrelevance.
With 34 down. They have a bullseye on their head.
Not Dead Yet!
Wise man sayeth: Never count your votes while sitting at the debate...
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 7:54PM EST (link)It’ll be a time for primaries when the voting’s done
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Follow Cantor on Twitter ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 7:11PM EST (link)by clicking on this link. 34 no votes posted a few minutes ago.
http://twitter.com/GOPWhip
Marion Berry
bilmar Saturday, November 7th at 7:30PM EST (link)is a yes vote
This is going to pass
bs Saturday, November 7th at 7:51PM EST (link)I would have fronted it as a diary a couple of days ago, but it’s counterproductive.
I have been saying this for a couple of months now. The Democrats believe the party line of their leadership - that the “tea partiers” are nothing more than a fringe group of nutjobs who do not represent the opinions of the general population. This is why you don’t see them shaking in their boots over the ramifications of their vote. Once the pols are in their cozy little offices in DC, they forget what goes on at home. They are held sway by their leadership, not by their constituents.
The tea parties have been nice expressions of our feelings, but they were largely ineffective because the politicians don’t believe them. To the DC Dems, NY-23 was a reinforcement of that opinion…the objections to the liberal policies of the Obama admin are the ravings of a few extremists.
Don’t count on the Senate being the place where this stops, either. Reid will muster 60 votes by pulling a Stupak. And then it goes to conference, where the GOP will have NO say in what happens. So the Dems are free to formulate a compromise bill that they can push through both sides. And thus healthcare socialization is going to pass and we won’t be able to do a damned thing about it.
It boils down to this: The only tea party that matters is the one that takes place on election day. That is the only thing these people are going to understand.
Elections have consequences. We are paying the consequences for 2008.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
They're lining up the final theatrics now
bk Saturday, November 7th at 7:56PM EST (link)Just saw on CNN that it’s orchestrated for Dingell to cast the 218th aye vote.
Agree, we are suffering the consequences of 2008
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 8:02PM EST (link)The pendulum has swung to the left(we can argue to no end on the reasons for that). This new legislation may join the institutionalized programs of Social Security, Medicare, Medicade etc. Thus it will never be done away with.
“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
Defeatist Attitude
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 8:05PM EST (link)If it passes, it will be by one or two votes. This could have been defeated.
Why focus on 2010, when the most harmful piece of legislation in the history of the Republic is being debated. This legislation is about more than socialist policies, its about securing a permanent majority. Govnerment dependents and jobs will ensure millions of more voters for the Democrats Party via this bill.
Not Dead Yet!
The way people vote sucks
bk Saturday, November 7th at 8:10PM EST (link)If you polled the House and said, “If you were not the deciding vote tonight, how would you vote?” There would probably be at least 60 Democratic nays.
bs- I really don't think you are an honest Republican
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 8:30PM EST (link)but, I am really seeing you as a reliable Democrat, no matter what you say in weak favor of the republicans.
bs- I really don't think you are an honest Republican
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 8:30PM EST (link)but, I am really seeing you as a reliable Democrat, no matter what you say in weak favor of the republicans.
Just be happy I didn't take you up on a bet
bk Saturday, November 7th at 8:35PM EST (link)I said at the time I hoped you were right, but my gut said otherwise. I’ve learned over the last several years never to underestimate how devious Democratic leaders are and never to overestimate how ‘moderate’ any so-called Democrats are.
P.S. Not sure whether you meant bs or bk, but you’re wrong in either case.
bk, bs- I don't know who you are talking to
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 8:49PM EST (link)I never wagered any bet with you either bk or bs. So, are you saying that you are both bk and bs? Another deception to be sure. Both are phonies, and. it’s about time the Redstaters found out.
As to bets
bk Saturday, November 7th at 9:04PM EST (link)It wasn’t THAT long ago that you were saying in here that unless I was willing to place a formal bet on HCR passing that I must not be very confident about it.
I said at the time that I wished I was wrong but feared that I was right. Don’t get all pissed off at me now because you got it wrong. I was pulling for you to be right all along.
Listen, pinhead
bs Saturday, November 7th at 10:00PM EST (link)I don’t sockpuppet, except for my dog Clyde, who probably possesses more intellect than you do. I happen to be a front page contributor here on this site and to the right of just about anyone here. Any of the contribs on the list (and/or my friend bk, who introduced me to Redstate in 2007) can confirm that. But frankly, I don’t owe you squat for an explanation. I’m sorry that you can’t deal with reality. Go somewhere else if you can’t take it.
Now I will have Neil deal with your sorry butt.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
Scope, you're so far off base that it's laughable.
janis Saturday, November 7th at 10:11PM EST (link)Both bk and bs are well respected members here for longer than you have been. And both are solid conservatives.
You owe both an apology. Don’t take out your anger at the Dems on your own side.
Yep.
bs Saturday, November 7th at 8:21PM EST (link)Of course that’s what it’s about. That’s why the threat from the Dem leadership and from organizations like Moveon.org is so strong. The Democrite reps are more afraid of them than they are the voters.
But I will say that there is a hell of a lot of ideology involved as well. Remember, there are as many hard left mouths out there calling their reps to tell them to vote FOR this as there are us calling against it. Leftist Congresspeople believe in this. They honestly think it’s good for the country AND good for their future. They think they’re going to heal the sick and bring healthcare to the needy. And they want their votes.
And I think one or two votes is a little low. I say it’ll pass by at least 10. Once the line-straddling leftists find out that Pelosi has the votes, they’ll vote with her to keep from losing funding from Moveon or their committee seats.
I repeat: these guys forget what goes on at home when they get to DC. Calls are interesting, but we’re not the only ones calling. The calls that really count are the ones from Nancy Pelosi, George Soros and Barack Obama.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
I have read many of bs comments
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 8:23PM EST (link)and have actually questioned his/her defeatist attitude in the past. I am of the thought at this time that bs, is working in conjunction with the Liberals. There is no way you can be so “defeatist” unless you want the Republican party to be defeated. My own personal opinion is that bs is trying to use a Liberal Kalinsky tactic on all of us at Redstate. Just tell everyone you have no way to win anything, we cannot gain anything, despite the Republicans wins in NJ and VA, and, voilla, you have the person among you that will take us down, rather than build us up. After Tues, bs has become even more telling, in my opinion of course. Reverse psychology in the works.
You're full of crap
bk Saturday, November 7th at 8:37PM EST (link)Not hard to have two posting accounts bk and bs
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 8:51PM EST (link)and I believe you just outed yourself.
You're an idiot
bk Saturday, November 7th at 8:54PM EST (link)We happen to have similar IDs and it just so happens we’ve known each other for a long while even though we’ve never met in person.
I don’t know what your making stuff up here has to gain, but whatever.
Scope, you need to quit drinking while posting on RS. nt
Aaron Gardner Saturday, November 7th at 8:56PM EST (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Scope, bs is just being a realist.
penguin2 Saturday, November 7th at 9:06PM EST (link)I’ve met him. He is very strong conservative. There are times he has written things that get me down, but he is being honest vs just trying to make people feel good.
If this happens, then we have to take it on full force in 2010 and 2012. It is rotten to feel powerless, but that is why we strive to fight another day. Believe me, bs is not saying anything I want to hear, but he is probably right and that is what makes it hard to swallow.
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.
Benjamin Franklin
Umm. No.
Moe Lane Saturday, November 7th at 9:10PM EST (link)They are not the same people.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Scope, you are so incredibly wrong, and you should apologize.
Aaron Gardner Saturday, November 7th at 8:55PM EST (link)I have sat face to face with BS and I will tell you that he has more conservative principles in his little pinky then you do in your entire body. You need to realize that BS is speaking in realpolitik and not just being a rah rah guy. The numbers are against us, we can’t stop anything in this congress as a party.
The fact that the tea party movement exists is evidence of the relatively small amount of influence the constituencies of our elected officials actually have. The power of the tea party movement is felt in elections, not legislative battles in between elections.
Quit being such an emotional nit wit and understand the difference between wants and reality.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Sorry, I am not a defeatist
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 9:37PM EST (link)and to be a “realist” in this day in America, is to believe that the Americans have discovered just how bad the current administration has been on everything. America has discovered that the progressives have some bad things on their agenda, and, they are going to overtake the socialism/marxism that is trying to take over my country. I refuse to kowtow to what the less than hopeful, the less than optomistic will have us believe. I’m rally dang sorry, but, I will never get on the bandwagon with someone/anyone who has only despair in their thoughts for who we are as a nation. No sir, I will not buy into the doom and gloom that bs apparently feels has become the US. No sir, I refuse to believe that we are just doomed by the Libs. Sorry, I am much more of an optimist than bs is. No appologies, ever. I just watched the same elections that all of you have. Hey, I live in VA. If you watched any returns, not only the nationally watched elections, but, also on the down tickets, you would all have reason for a better America today and tomorrow. It seems to me that bs has not paid attention to what has just transpired. Sorry if bs still harbours gloom and doom, but, I can’t go there.
kowalski- I HAVE FAITH THAT WE WILL TURN THIS AROUND
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 9:46PM EST (link)I am not an eternal pessimist, period. To promote anything less is only a self fullfilling prophesy.
Scope, who votes on legislation...the people or the elected officials?
Aaron Gardner Saturday, November 7th at 9:47PM EST (link)You need to learn how to distinguish between the two.
You should really consider apologizing to BS.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Perhaps
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 10:08PM EST (link)Scope’s double identity accusation was out of line. But Scope’s argument isn’t. I hope you are not asking him to apologize for his opinion. We made hay out of cap and tax and it only passed because a handful of republican defectors. We have stalled this vote for three months.
I too objected to the nonchallant attitude of BS that protesting is futile and “counterproductive”. If you agree with his premise, do you also agree that we should lie down on amnesty and card check and just wait unitl 2010?
Elctions are a means to an end. Governance is the end and the preservation of our Republic is that end. The important work isnt to wax poetic about a conservative tide twelve months from now, it is stalling and stopping these abominations from happening.
Plenty of conservative will be reactive after the vote. They always are. But those who are proactive should not be deterred. They make the most difference. Health care is the only fight that matters right now.
Not Dead Yet!
GMAFB
bs Saturday, November 7th at 10:14PM EST (link)Care to quote where I said protesting was counterproductive? You quoted it, therefore it must be there. Show me. The only place I used the word was in reference to me placing my opinion on the front page, which itself would have been counterproductive. Now futile - I may have implied that, but where I think we really erred was in letting up. The tea party activity ground almost to a halt after 9/12. And in my opinion, that is precisely what Pelosi and Reid counted on. Out of sight, out of mind.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
The Was A Protest
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 10:20PM EST (link)… two days ago on the Washington Mall. The House guest section is packed with protestors right now, our guys.
To just pronounce the debate is over and to keep talking about the next election cycle misses the big picture.
The may be no future is the socialist tentacles of socialized medicin, cap and tax, amnesty, card check and radical judges are implaced.
Some are getting ballons ready for 2010, that is their prerogative. Some wish to fight the good fight and stay focused on this legisalative cycle and fight tooth and nail for every inch. I care more about my country than my party.
Not Dead Yet!
I said "almost" for a reason [nt]
bs Saturday, November 7th at 10:23PM EST (link)Decorum is fo’ suckas
Swamp, BS didn't say that protestinf is counterproductive...
Aaron Gardner Saturday, November 7th at 10:24PM EST (link)He said that posting his opinion on the FP would have been counterproductive.
As far as Scope goes, she didn’t just disagree with his opinion, she implied that BS wasn’t a republican and instead was actually a troll. Seriously, a troll who managed to become a FP contributor.
BS, wasn’t talking about what he wants to happen, he was commenting on what he believes will happen. He believes it will happen because 1.) the blue dogs have no backbone and 2.) those in Washington who are against us quit caring what we think the day after elections are held.
Yes, elections are a means to an end, BS understand that. He also understand that the last election was won by the democratic party and they are the ones governing, and they don’t plan on preserving the republic.
BS never said to stop calling, BS never said to not be an activist. You and Scope are both putting words into BS’s mouth and taking what he said outside of the intended context. You both seem to be control by you emotions right now instead of any sense of logic or history.
You both should stop and re-read BS’s comment from the perspective of it being a sad commentary on our elected officials instead of a commentary on the Tea Party activists and ordinary Americans. If you did you might understand better what he was saying.
Right now you both just look foolish.
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
What he said [nt]
bs Saturday, November 7th at 10:27PM EST (link)Decorum is fo’ suckas
And by the way, your mention of the "blue dogs" is critical
bs Saturday, November 7th at 10:31PM EST (link)We must stop depending upon them. They are DEMOCRATS. They act like DEMOCRATS. They are beholden to the DEMOCRAT leadership. When the rubber meets the road, they have to kiss Nancy’s ring to survive in the House. They simply haven’t started worrying about getting re-elected yet.
One other thing - a while back EPU projected that we’d gain 80 seats in 2010. I thought he was nuts. This changes things significantly. I think there’s a fair chance that enough people get pissed over this that the “replacement count” goes up dramatically. BUT - we cannot let up on reminding their constituents that they screwed them by voting for this abortion of a bill (no pun intended)
Decorum is fo’ suckas
In the words of John Wayne...
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 10:34PM EST (link)“Send’em to H***.”
or at least unemploy them.
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Agreed BS, the blue dog is a myth. See the Scorpion and the Frog parable. nt
Aaron Gardner Saturday, November 7th at 10:36PM EST (link)Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Just Reading What Was Written
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 10:33PM EST (link)“And thus healthcare socialization is going to pass and we won’t be able to do a damned thing about it.
It boils down to this: The only tea party that matters is the one that takes place on election day. That is the only thing these people are going to understand.”
I read it from the persective of the health care debate. Do you wish to tell the above to the twenty thousand protestors who marched on Washington there is a “damned” thing they can do about health care. Every day matters, every vote matters. Every momenbt is a teaching moment. I disagree with those who are content on waiting for elections.
I do think there is a “damned thing” we can do about it. And I dont believe the outcome is inevitable.
Not Dead Yet!
Good grief, are you dense?
bs Saturday, November 7th at 10:37PM EST (link)The tea parties are over. The point is that this is going to pass NOW, no matter what was done then. That was a point in time statement. Look at what happened…this thing is going to pass despite the tea parties. NOW the only thing they will understand is election day.
Your skill in reading between the lines is lacking.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
Your Wrong Again
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 10:43PM EST (link)On the eve of the most important vote in my lifetime, you are still talking about tea parties and elections.
You still insist that defeat was inevitable. It wasnt. It isnt. If it was, why did Erick ask people to make phone calls. Seriously, why waste peoples money if its all set in stone.
You dont get it. It not about tea parties or elections. Its about stopping health care. That is the issue of the day. No one is talking about 2010.
And if I was lame, I could make it personal too.
Not Dead Yet!
No, you're wrong
bs Saturday, November 7th at 10:53PM EST (link)(and note the spelling, please)
Defeat is inevitable now, on this bill, in the House, tonight. There ARE NO MORE tea parties tonight. Erick’s plea for calls was almost 24 hours ago, before the Congressmen hit the House floor.
There is a slight chance the Senate can be convinced, but without a public option in the Senate bill, Snowe caves, and probably Lieberman as well. So the Senate probably follows the house in passing a bill. The last chance is the reconciled bill out of conference.
But you read whatever you want. This is my last response to you, as you are bound and determined interpret things to match your own opinion.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
You prove his point. This passed tonight, in spite of the protest. The protests didn't make a bit of difference.
Aaron Gardner Saturday, November 7th at 10:39PM EST (link)The bluedogs voted as Nancy told them too. That doesn’t mean the protests themselves were without purpose, it just means that those voting on the legislation were not swayed by it.
How hard is that to understand?
Aaron’s Archive
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Boy howdy!
SteveLA Saturday, November 7th at 9:21PM EST (link)bs
Started with the election of ‘06 with the “We stink less” as the only reason to vote R, followed two years later without much of a change in direction, tone or wild spending by R’s, or as I like to claim, like Drunken Sailors on Liberty.
The Tea parties, and I’d probably argue the support that what’s his face from Texas who will not be named gained in ‘08 sort signals a change in what people are looking for, fiscal restraint and responsibility from government. Democrats sure as heck aren’t into ether of those behaviors, remains to be seen if Congresscritter R’s are figuring it out.
______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity
SteveLa- The longer we Republicans keep going back over what we did wrong
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 9:58PM EST (link)in 2006 and 2008, only feeds the Democrat talking points, as in , Obama is still talking about how he is still dealing with the Bush mess. Remember the mop he is still trying to use to clean up the Bush, Republican mess, Bush made a freaking mess, Amen. Can we get beyond 2006 and 2008 and Bush Derangement syndrome? Can we please get to talking at least something good about Republicans/Conservatives, please? How the hell are we ever going to get to an admisistration that is not Obama, Liberals, Progressives, if we keep bashing our own party, and keep the bad Republican policies alive and well. Talk about eating your own?????
SteveLa- The longer we Republicans keep going back over what we did wrong
Scope Saturday, November 7th at 9:58PM EST (link)in 2006 and 2008, only feeds the Democrat talking points, as in , Obama is still talking about how he is still dealing with the Bush mess. Remember the mop he is still trying to use to clean up the Bush, Republican mess, Bush made a freaking mess, Amen. Can we get beyond 2006 and 2008 and Bush Derangement syndrome? Can we please get to talking at least something good about Republicans/Conservatives, please? How the hell are we ever going to get to an admisistration that is not Obama, Liberals, Progressives, if we keep bashing our own party, and keep the bad Republican policies alive and well. Talk about eating your own?????
Rock Meet Hard Place: Shadegg To Vote Present On Stupak; Bucking Pro-Life Groups
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 7:59PM EST (link)I like it.
34 hard nos right now. A handful of Dems are banking on the pro-life languagee. Stupak needs GOP support to pass, but GOP support for the amendment may seal the deal for the final vote.
Rock Mee Hard Place
If enough GOPers vote present, about 20, Stupak Amerndment dies. Its risky and not popular with pro-life groups, but they need to know the Dems will strip this language anyway. Its not a no vote, just abstaining.
Not Dead Yet!
I don't see how that works
bk Saturday, November 7th at 8:07PM EST (link)Stupak’s folks will say they got the floor vote they requested, and it would have passed had the GOP not chosen to kill it for purely political reasons.
Hell, from what someone wrote earlier, half of Stupak’s 40 were going to vote for the bill no matter what, so they’re a waste.
I Actually Wrote That Earlier
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 8:13PM EST (link).. But’s its literally coming down to about three of four votes. A couple of Dems desperately want the pro-life language. Without it, they may swing no. Every vote counts at this juncture.
Not Dead Yet!
Why should we make it easy on them ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 8:13PM EST (link)Make the Dems pass this dang thing without ANY help from the Republicans. If pro-life Dems want to go against their beliefs, then so be it.
That's why Boehner has been asking
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 8:07PM EST (link)three different chairmen if they would guarantee that the amendment would be in the final bill. None said that they would. So I think this is a set up for the Repubs to vote present ’cause they don’t believe it’ll survive the final bill.
That’ll kill the amendment forcing pro-life Dems to vote no. I know some will vote for it anyway, at least that’s what I’ve read elsewhere.
How is that any different than Snowe voting yes on Baucus?
bk Saturday, November 7th at 8:14PM EST (link)She was voting based on what she hoped would happen downstream.
Voting against Stupak is based on what you fear might happen upstream.
Either way it’s based on what MIGHT happen later rather than how you feel about the thing you’re voting on.
Better if Stupak is there and it gets stripped in committee, then people can really go after the 20 or so allegedly pro-life Dems. If it’s never there to begin with, why should they feel any pressure to vote any differently on the conference report?
Don't we have enough "Pro-choice" Reps for thatl?
scarlos Saturday, November 7th at 8:08PM EST (link)I know we have about 50 RMSPs in the House, and probably at least Half of them are technically “pro-choice”.
Though counting on the RMSP to buck the Democrats has about as a good a success rate as negotiating with Iran.
How can anyone be surprised when an ideology that regards wealth as a cardinal sin cannot produce it?
A liberal is a person who thinks there is no problem that cannot be solved by consolidating more power in their own hands
The entire GOP should just vote present as a statement. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 8:45PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Cantor has it at 35 no. nt
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 8:26PM EST (link)“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
Quitters Never Win; Cantor Still Fights
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 8:29PM EST (link)… a half dozen freaking votes
Not Dead Yet!
35 Dems join us
makemyday Saturday, November 7th at 8:28PM EST (link)The count is 35 now
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
If this passes...
writeblock Saturday, November 7th at 8:41PM EST (link)there’s the Senate…and the Supreme Court. This is only the beginning of a cold civil war.
Dems have 220 votes
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 8:42PM EST (link)http://twitter.com/gregmcrc/status/5519810287
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
I don't deny that, but who is Greg Mueller?
NDPhog Saturday, November 7th at 8:46PM EST (link)Is he in a position to know?
I'm not sure myself
Mayhem Saturday, November 7th at 8:54PM EST (link)But Michelle Malkin was linking to him earlier today, so I’ve just been following his feed.
“I reject your reality and substitute my own.”
Pence, McCotter, Barton knocking em out the park, nice guys
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 8:48PM EST (link)I always thought McCotter underated. He’s got a tough district and isnt naturally telegenic or eloquent, be he’s tough, witty and steps he up.
Not Dead Yet!
McCotter is my rep
makemyday Saturday, November 7th at 8:51PM EST (link)Good guy all around, very vocal and very qualified speaker. Knows the material that he talks about. Heck, he even sends hand written notes as replies to my emails!
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
Some more on voting 'present' on Stupak
bk Saturday, November 7th at 8:56PM EST (link)http://www.nationalreview.com/doctor/
The national right to life folks are vehemently opposed to leaving abortion in as a hoped-for poison pill.
Shadegg says screw you ...
joayn Saturday, November 7th at 9:10PM EST (link)Article at Politico.
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/GOP_Shadegg_to_buck_prolifers_party.html?showall#
Apparently Stupak failed on a voice vote
bk Saturday, November 7th at 9:32PM EST (link)He asked for a roll call vote and was told it will be taken later. What is that all about??
They’re working on the GOP substitute now. Boehner is speaking as I’m typing this.
As to Shadegg, it’s not like the Pelosi House has done things in any fair manner since she took over, so it’s not like today is a surprise.
I'm asking about that now.
Moe Lane Saturday, November 7th at 9:35PM EST (link)It smells procedural, and the relationship of parliamentary procedure to reality is at times… shaky.
Check out my new blog at http://moelane.com/.
http://twitter.com/moelane
My (blogging-related) wish list.
Here's the link I based that on
bk Saturday, November 7th at 9:36PM EST (link)http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.html
What is going on?
I've been keeping that as an open tab today
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 9:38PM EST (link)and I picked that up really quick.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
Oh they always do that ...
zachv Saturday, November 7th at 9:38PM EST (link)The chair calls for a voice vote and declares his/her preference or the loudest the winner, to which someone motions for a roll call vote.
Doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not it will actually pass or not.
On the Stupak amendment
Kyle-MI Saturday, November 7th at 9:00PM EST (link)If the Senate approves a bill, and if the Stupak amendment gets stripped out in reconciliation, then doesn’t the House have to vote again on the reconciled bill? If they are barely able to get this passed with the Stupak amendment, then it is going to be much, much tougher with a stripped out bill.
Hopefully it gets stopped in the Senate and it will never get to a reconciliation vote, but I would rather have it go into reconciliation with Stupak then without it. Yes, it is a slim hope but everything is a slim hope anyway.
Its Called History!
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 9:06PM EST (link)Dems will use the same pleas about “so close”, “once in a generation”, “historic”, the “big picture” and all that rhetoric.
The more work that is put into this and the further it goes down the pike, the harder it will be to kill, regardless of what gets changed.
Best off kill it now.
Not Dead Yet!
Maybe, maybe not
Kyle-MI Saturday, November 7th at 9:33PM EST (link)If Coburn succeeds in delaying the Senate vote that puts the reconciliation vote much closer to the 2010 election. That puts double pressure on “pro-life” Dems to vote against it. They only voted for it the first time because of Stupak and it will be closer to the elections. In addition, the text of the bill will be better known with all of its garbage.
In general I agree with you. The earlier it dies the better. The Stupak amendment could be a possible insurance policy, a very weak one granted.
Yes
makemyday Saturday, November 7th at 9:08PM EST (link)I believe the process is if it passes the house then it goes to the Senate. The Senate will merge it with their own version or pass there own version and it goes through the process in the Senate for approval. The final Senate version then goes to reconcilation with the House where it will be changed again. I believe the final version then goes back to the House and Senate for a up or down vote with no opportunity to put forth amendments or changing. If both houses pass this final form it goes to POTUS for signature.
When all else fails…….. Shoot!
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.” –American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)
“We should never despair, our Situation before has been unpromising and has changed for the better, so I trust, it will again. If new difficulties arise, we must only put forth new Exertions and proportion our Efforts to the exigency of the times.” –George Washington, letter to Philip Schuyler, 1777
can someone tell me where we stand right now?
kyle8 Saturday, November 7th at 9:17PM EST (link)is it a done deal?
“Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty”
Kyle
35 Dem no votes per Eric Cantor
Cheryl Saturday, November 7th at 9:22PM EST (link)I can’t remember how many no votes from the dems are needed to defeat it, I think 40. They are suppose to vote sometime after 10 pm eastern,
No
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 9:22PM EST (link)Its not over until the votes are cast. On the upside we have 35 hard Nayes. We need 41 to reach 218. The most optomistic Dem number is 220.
Who knows who if puffing and what deals are being cut, but the Dems probably got their majority via the Stupak amendment, which is the pro-life amendment.
Some GOPers are planning to vote present, in hopes the Stupak Amendment is defeated for tactical reasons.
It doesnt look good, but its coming down to about five votes.
Not Dead Yet!
Well it seems like the stupak amendment is not coming for a vote for some time
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 9:34PM EST (link)as per the official record. I guess the progressive want things their way a bit too much. Oh well, that’s life. As for who knows what votes can be counted on, I think I’ll stick with Eric Cantor since he does know what votes he’s getting locked up. He does the horsetrading so I’m sure he knows.
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The Later They Debate Late Into A Saturday : The More Likely Patches Kennedy Heads For A Local Bar
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 9:42PM EST (link)…. and doesnt make it back. Dems -1
FLAG!
Pesonal Foul… Red Team.. Swamp Yankee Illegal Chop Block… 15 Yard Penalty
Not Dead Yet!
When I read that...
discerningconservative Saturday, November 7th at 9:44PM EST (link)I could hear Howie Carr’s voice in my head.
Howard Lawrence Carr!! nt
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 9:57PM EST (link)Not Dead Yet!
Howard Lawrence Carr!! nt
Swamp_Yankee Saturday, November 7th at 9:58PM EST (link)Not Dead Yet!
I don't what is the Kennedy's and Alcohol
Richard Mullins Saturday, November 7th at 9:52PM EST (link)but seems that this keeping him moving over to the bar.
For more on my views, go my wordpress site:
http://rpmullins.wordpress.com
For more on Happy jet airlines, go here:
http://happyjetairlines.wordpress.com
For a good dose of satire go here:
http://thesquash.wordpress.com
For more of I like to do a lot:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42008626@N03
Zero faith in the Federal Govt. I feel like I am in a foreign country right now...can I find safe haven in an embassy somewhere!! nt
neum432 Saturday, November 7th at 9:17PM EST (link)“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
I am very proud of John Boehner at this moment. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 9:40PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Party Line Vote on GOP health care plan; 1 R says nay. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 10:29PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
At least 12 Dems vote for GOP plan
GregInFla Saturday, November 7th at 10:56PM EST (link)nt
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
Support Marco Rubio for US Senate.
One R voted nay on Boehner
bk Saturday, November 7th at 10:38PM EST (link)I don’t know who it was. The rest voted the party line.
Timothy Johnson of Illinois. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 10:39PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Now three GOP vote no on GOP bill
GregInFla Saturday, November 7th at 10:58PM EST (link)Take down some names..
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
Support Marco Rubio for US Senate.
Which GOP voted YES? Johnson again?
GregInFla Saturday, November 7th at 11:12PM EST (link)Who is this guy?
Tyranny trumps Liberty
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
Support Marco Rubio for US Senate.
it was Joseph "gow" who said Yes to Tyranny as GOP
GregInFla Saturday, November 7th at 11:12PM EST (link)or former GOP
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
Support Marco Rubio for US Senate.
Cao Should Be Kicked Out of the GOP Caucus for This
IJB Saturday, November 7th at 11:14PM EST (link)It’s a low-risk move by Boehner - Cao won’t win in 2010 anyway - but it would send a very clear message both to the GOP caucus, and the Base, that some issues are just to important to stray on.
"Cao", Greg. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 11:14PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
R's are calling "rights of the trial lawyers" ouch. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 10:38PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Stupak ended up passing 240-194
bk Saturday, November 7th at 10:40PM EST (link)All the nays were Ds. Don’t know who sat it out. (Shadegg?)
Yes. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 10:46PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
GOP should have all voted Present on Stupak
GregInFla Saturday, November 7th at 10:56PM EST (link)Then after it failed, the pro-lifer Dems would have to vote no on the full bill. Stupak will never survive committee. Rangel even said that. Putting lipstick on a pig still makes it a pig. Stupak was just lipstick.
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
Support Marco Rubio for US Senate.
You are exactly right.
bs Saturday, November 7th at 11:00PM EST (link)Voting YES on Stupak was a tactical blunder by the GOP.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
I disagree
bk Saturday, November 7th at 11:05PM EST (link)According to K-Lo at the Corner, Boehner and company put out this statement:
No, for 2 reasons
Kyle-MI Saturday, November 7th at 11:10PM EST (link)1. All the so-called pro-life dems wanted was a vote on Stupak. Whether it passed or not, some of them still could have been peeled off and claimed they got their vote.
2. If it gets stripped in reconciliation (and it probably will because the liberals can’t help themselves), then there will be another vote in the House for what will be then a pro-abortion health care bill and it will be closer to the 2010 elections. The amendment is a potential landmine to the Democrats.
That post-reconciliation vote is what I'm counting on.
bs Sunday, November 8th at 9:31PM EST (link)And that will prove whether or not the Blue Dogs are really committed to the life issue.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
On removal of Stupak language...
bs Sunday, November 8th at 10:51PM EST (link)See http://www.openleft.com/diary/15909/stupak-amendment-update
Note item 1:
Now they say it’s a “rumor”. But I wouldn’t put it past Obama, the biggest pro-death POTUS to ever (dis)grace the WH.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
This is it... vote is NOW
GregInFla Saturday, November 7th at 11:01PM EST (link)n/t
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
Support Marco Rubio for US Senate.
Cao voted for it when it was clear that the D's had 218. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 11:12PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
I will make my first donation to a Democrat.
zachv Saturday, November 7th at 11:18PM EST (link)… against Joe Cao.
Done, 1 R voted for it
Cheryl Saturday, November 7th at 11:14PM EST (link)Gao (sp??) from LA, must be the guy who got Jefferson’s old seat?
Sell out.
New Orleans actually...(nt)
SteveLA Saturday, November 7th at 11:15PM EST (link)______________________________________
Competency over ideological purity
Cao only voted 'after' it was apparent the D's had 218. nt
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 11:17PM EST (link)Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
there was a procedural reason for his vote
JSobieski Saturday, November 7th at 11:18PM EST (link)I forget the specifics, but certain motions can only be made by someone who voted in favor, so the Rs needed someone to vote in favor if the bill passed.
Cao only voted 'after' it was apparent the D's had 218.
Xasteius Saturday, November 7th at 11:18PM EST (link)Great, now we are at the mercy of Leiberman and other Senator Blue dogs.
Elections have consequences.
Don’t leave the party, hijack it back!
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.
When I grow up, I don’t want to be Reagan. I want to be Art Chance.
~Aaron Gardner
Never heard so much
redneck_hippie Saturday, November 7th at 11:17PM EST (link)cheering over the passage of a turd.
“We must not lose our faculty to dare, especially in dark days.” - Churchill in March, 1942.
Remember NY-23.
Is it me, or did I just see tumbleweed blow by at Redstate? Have we been hacked?
DONTREADONME Sunday, November 8th at 10:01PM EST (link)Seriously, Redstate has been very inaccessible since after the vote last night?
“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
Nope, DTOM.
TNJim Sunday, November 8th at 10:11PM EST (link)Maintenance, no hacking. Been talking to Neil about it on twitter. Still some things to do, but not been hacked.
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
Good to know. BTW to all, turn on the D's (NY-23) not Cao...
DONTREADONME Sunday, November 8th at 10:24PM EST (link)1. Thanks TNJim I was beginning to think we gave up
To everyone else, lets write the narrative,
1. vote does not bipartisan make
2. Democrats lying to their constituents, ahem NY-23
“The UN is right? you can’t be any more “un”; Than you are right now, the UN is undone, Another mushroom cloud, another smoking gun, The threat is real, the Locust King has come, Don’t tell me the truth; I don’t like what they’ve done, Just give me ammo for the United Abominations”-Megadeth
Yeah, DTOM, can you believe that Owens?
TNJim Sunday, November 8th at 10:32PM EST (link)1 hour after he was sworn in he was breaking promises to his constituents. Then the vote last night was the capper. I think most of us knew Cao was a RINO, maybe not to that extent, but the bottom line here is there was bipartisan objection to the bill, and it almost worked.
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
Cao waited til Dems had the 218 votes
GregInFla Sunday, November 8th at 11:18PM EST (link)Watching that vote was painful. (Accessing redstate afterwards as impossible, but it seems to be returned to normal.) I would like to think that he would NOT have voted Yea if there were only 217 Yea’s. Plus, the House would still have the vote on the conference committee bill after Senate passes something else. I find it hard to believe that this bill will pas unchanged in the Senate.
– A true evolutionist would let endangered species die off. Anyone care to change sides?
Support Marco Rubio for US Senate.
Software update didn't work out so well
bs Sunday, November 8th at 10:19PM EST (link)so it was backed out. Neil worked his butt off to get the upgrade working, but just couldn’t get it there. I think the software is the problem, not the effort.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
I agree.
TNJim Sunday, November 8th at 10:27PM EST (link)Neil put in a great effort this weekend. I blame the software, also.
“No. You can’t” -Moe Lane
Thank you all
Dan Perrin Monday, November 9th at 10:31AM EST (link)for your activism and passion for saving this country from the fiscally and political insane Democratic House leadership