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Dems Offer Nelson up to $500 Billion, er Million in Earmarks to Vote Yes

By: Dan Perrin (Diary)  |  December 15th, 2009 at 10:40 AM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

The White House and Democratic Leadership in the Senate has told Senator Nelson they will close every military base in Nebraska — a threat that is not credible, really — but they have also offered Senator Nelson between $300 million to $500 million in earmarks, according to key hill health care operatives. These hundreds of millions will be available for whatever he wants to spend them on in Nebraska.

Given Senator Nelson’s hard core earmarking history as an appropriator, the word on the street is that this is the real carrot that could get Nelson to agree to some cover amendment that would allege to protect the innocent unborn from government funding of abortion, but, in fact, would not.

Unless a Sanders or Burris — or some other liberal — objects to the bill having no public option, then if Nelson holds the bill dies, and if Nelson does not hold, the bill passes. Given that the Dems have caved to Lieberman — this is the whole ball game — Senator Nelson. The Dem leadership could still win without Nelson, if they got Snowe since there is no public option, or they could cave to Nelson like they did to with Lieberman (who now will likely back the bill). Or Reid could follow in the Speaker’s footsteps and add in the Stupak abortion restrictions, but this would tempt fate since their liberal base would have to swallow both no public option and abortion restrictions.

The next 36 hours are key to this fight, given the fact the Dems caved to Lieberman. It’s all about Nelson now, plain and simple. Will he do what his constituents want and kill the bill, or will he take the cash?

COMMENTS

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  • 5ini5ter

    Nelson will be taking the cash. It’s the sad state of our government. Vote them all out 2010 and 2012!

    • Richard Mullins

      Really, there isn’t anything that could change is mind. This whole BRAC Offult is a stupid idea for Obama to use as a threat. The best thing that could ever happen is for Offult to get BRAC’d and become a job increase for Nebraska. Former SAC bases are working as job creators for cities. Bergstrom is the new airport for Austin,Kelly is a great boom in business for West San Antonio,England in Alexandria,LA is an Airport their. None of those SAC bases kill the place when they closed, in fact it’s quite the opposite.

    • farstar99

      He’s bought.

  • http://www.skiloveland.com skicougar

    Not that the GOP can’t be bought either, but they will at least do the right thing(a la cancelling immigration reform bill) if you are loud enough.

    I am younger than many liberal friends of mine. When their health starts declining and they are rejected for coverages and drugs the first time, I am calling them every day for a month and telling them “I told you so”.

  • clowngirl

    How can they possibly offer a bribe of that size? And how could Nelson possibly get away with taking it?

    • minister_of_war

      They’ve already said that the entire cost of the Senate bill is in the $800 billion range. There’s no way that they’d give one Senator $500 billion dollars of play money. He must have meant $300-500 million. And Nelson then would become a whore just like Landreu.

      • Dan Perrin

        n/t

      • clowngirl
        • Dan Perrin

          where Dr. Evil is demanding cash…

          • clowngirl

            I was taking it all literally – of course, it does kind of fit in. Everything about this monstrosity is so ridiculous it all could be mistaken for a joke, (though not a funny one) and it’s not that I don’t think Democrats would waste $500 Billion on a bribe ( what else was the Porkulus?) just not to one person.

            Of course, I don’t see how they are getting away with what they ARE doing.Are there no ethics violations related to threats and bribery?

          • nessa
          • bk

            Sanders can say he’ll vote against it because it doesn’t have a public option. But perhaps for earmarks to do $400M of improvements at Stowe for the snow bunnies he might change his mind.

            Lincoln can say her voters will kill her, but if she brings home enough bacon she might live until the next election. $600M would help most Arkansans eliminate outhouses. ;-)

            And so on.

    • The_Gadfly

      What’s a couple of letter between friends?

      The idiots running the show in DC are so disconnected from reality they wouldn’t know the difference anyway. To them it is all just words on a page.

      • Richard Mullins
  • minister_of_war

    all of the Democrats who didn’t hold out on their chance to become whores. He’ll take the money & do the deed.

    • http://barnettlaw.org Frozen_Man

      why other dems don’t just suddenly decide “I’m not for it without a similar buyoff.” I know it isn’t that they have a moral aversion to it so why not?

      • clowngirl

        “Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, is of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.”

    • anotherindyfilmguy

      the process isn’t over yet… they could all still do it… after which, at a minimum, they all need to be voted out…

  • ottomustaine

    Any word on whether the Senate Republicans are finally ready to go postal and use all those procedural tactics they’ve been holding in reserve? Because, you know, the clock is running out, and those idiots better not take three timeouts into the locker room at the end of the game.

    • Dan Perrin

      is “message” amendments

      He knows not what to do to OBJECT, and he is rolling over and playing dead and telling his caucus to as well.

      • Joe_Cor

        standing in front of this rally this afternoon? Making manly statements to a safe audience, that no one who isn’t there will never even hear or know about, accomplishes nothing. After 9 years of disastrous results, you think the Republicans could find a strategy to replace New Tone.

      • Mayhem

        I am so disgusted by these rats.

        Where is Coburn?

        Where is DeMint?

        ANY Senator can object here. McConnell is tacitly becoming a part of the passage of this bill. That being the case, Coburn and DeMint need to recognize the failure of the GOP strategy, and stop it before it destroys the Republic.

        Coburn and DeMint: Save our country RIGHT NOW!

        • Dan Perrin

          bill will be on them if they object.

          And they are not objecting.

          • cari

            I don’t understand the logic behind this. How can objecting to the bill secure its passage?

    • anotherindyfilmguy

      no matter what the R’s do they must rely on at least one Dem to not vote to shut off debate and vote or otherwise bypass obstacles.

      The 40 vote block of the R’s means nothing if the Dems manage to unite the other 60 against them.

      The other interesting dynamic at work is that a lot of Dems know that passing this monstrosity will be either political or national suicide (if not both) and are in no hurry to pass it-except the Dem leadership that wants to press through no matter what beat downs, arm twisting and bribes it takes to kill the country.

      This bill is treason in action against the nation.

  • http://travismonitor.blogspot.com Freedoms Truth

    1. Oppose ALL unanimous consent requests.
    2. Make CLEAR that “TIMES UP” for this year and the Senate should wait until January.
    3. Force a reading on all bills.

    Now is the time to use THE POWER OF DELAY.

    “Any word on whether the Senate Republicans are finally ready to go postal and use all those procedural tactics they?ve been holding in reserve? Because, you know, the clock is running out, and those idiots better not take three timeouts into the locker room at the end of the game.”

    Well said!!!

    It’s time for a CODE RED to get only coal in Reid’s stocking for Christmas.

    • izoneguy

      This is war and you have to use EVERY weapon available…..

      Love your blog BTW!!

    • bs

      McConnell does not have the guts to do this. He’s already demonstrated that.

      • Dan Perrin

        disarming himself and the Republicans too

        • cari

          some logic to McConnell’s strategy or Coburn and DeMint wouldn’t stand by while this thing goes through. They know what’s at stake. I think they’re willing to start stalling once they sense the Dems are no longer self-destructing. They just haven’t reached for the panic button yet. I hope it’s because there’s something they know that we don’t, and that they haven’t waited too long.

          I am reading some positive things at NRO’s Critical Condition, and a Roll Call piece at Hot Air.

          • bk

            Either that or McConnell’s feelings would be hurt if the Democrats called him bad names.

  • Achance

    that everybody on both sides of the aisle – and here – had over a lousy 200 million in a highway appropriation bill that didn’t increase the total appropriation but which happened to be NOWHERE. I guess Nebraska is somewhere – if you’re a cow or pig.

    I’m sure our new Democrat Senator, Marky Begich, will make better use of his money than that evil old Ted Stevens would have. People can consider how useful someone like Ted Stevens might have been to the Republican caucus in fighting off the Democrat assault on America. But, we can all congratulate ourselves on our purity.

    I’m about ready to write Sen. Murkowski and tell her that since the house is burning we should keep warm and she should see how much they’ll pay her for a vote. God knows Alaska could use some stuff.

    • Third Street

      Had it not been for her, we wouldn’t even be talking about this right now.

      You already know this, of course, Art… I wonder if we’ve all learned our lesson yet.

      • Achance

        I really do beleive Sen. Stevens believed he had paid Allen for the improvement to his Girdwood home. He’d paid over $130K to Allen. Unless you’re in the remodel business, you really don’t have a clue what things actually cost. What I think really happened was the the FBI was after Ben Stevens who’d made some big-time enemies in the Seattle-dominated fishing industry. They tried to get Ben to cop to something by holding the Senator hostage. Clearly the Senator and Ben committed to sticking to their guns.

        Only a couple of the corruption charges brought by the FBI, not Palin, against Alaska legislators have held up to scrutiny on review or appeal. The fundamental predicate of most of the convictions is a federal statute regarding “honest services” by public officials. Problem is, honest services seem to be what a prosecutor says they are. As I wrote here contemporaneously, the FBI succeeded in making being a politician illegal. Their prosecution theory was: Company A wants X legislation/Officeholder B accepted a contribution from Company A/Officeholder B voted for the legislation desired by Company A/Therefore, Officeholder B voted for the legislation because he accepted a contribution from Company A. It is a definitional post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, but they were successful in getting juries to buy it. Of course, their leaks and rumors combined with Palins fulminations had generated such a lynch mob atmosphere here that you could have convicted anyone merely of the crime of holding office. That case is currently before the USSC on the question of Constitutionally impermissible vagueness in the statute and other questions brought on behalf of Juneau Republican Representative Weyrauch. Bruce is a lawyer and still fairly young. A felony conviction for what was essentially just asking for a job will cost him his law license, so he will not go gently.

        In any event, there is a Primary election in August and I’m thinking there’s going to be a day of reckoning for those who styled themselves the “un-Republicans.”

  • johnt

    what’s the difference, it’s only paper, it’s only the future of our children and grandchildren, the future of the nation, small potato’s compared to the future of the Democrat party and the primal urges of liberals[?].

    In a better world Nelson would be bribed by the Party’s own money, instead of being bribed with ours. The corruption here is nauseating, being bribed with other peoples money, the taxpayer, to vote against their interests. Cutting up the swag in the den of thieves.

    • Dan Perrin

      We are just printing our future away…

      It really makes me sick

      • penguin2

        I feel sick too.

        • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

          Those with character in DC departed decades ago. The crop now in Congress reflect the decades of inaction by good people in the political process within the two parties. Especially within the Republican Party. I’m guilty as charged. But no more.

          Think of it. Half the precinct committeeman slots were vacant in the Party. It seems most registered Republicans can’t even get themselves to the polls for primary elections — turn out is usually in the 20 per cent range and sometimes lower. Remember that NY-20 race to fill the open congressional seat when Gillibrand took Hillary’s senate seat? Republican turn out was about 32 per cent, according to this article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29972159/ . In a district where Republicans had over 70,000 margin over the Democrats in registered voters, “they the New York 20th Congressional District Republican people” couldn’t muster a win. According to this article, a whopping 36 per cent of registered voters turned out for the NY-23 special election: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2381273/posts .

          We lazy conservative Republicans deserve the government we have.

          My experience here in “Goldwater Country” is that most registered Republicans have never heard of the this strange thingy called a “precinct committeeman.” I’ve met members of Republican Clubs who don’t know what a precinct committeeman is.

          But, hope springs eternal. I just received the following message in an email from the Pachyderm Coalition, a group of conservative Republicans I work with here in AZ:

          The fight is simply the method to reaching the goal.

          The goal is Winning the War!

          Arizona’s Political Success Story

          and how to preserve and build on it!

          by Pachy

          Nevada used a well documented Arizona blueprint last year to take over the Nevada GOP. A small group of about 30 GOP/Tea Party activists began filling vacant GOP precinct chairs, first at the local level, then the county and six months later, these activists seized control of the state GOP, placing people, approved locally, at the head of the Nevada GOP.

          Nevada precinct activist Tony Warren describes their success.” Our approved slate of candidates swept the elections and we now control the entire State. No RINO was left standing. Every one of them has been moved out of our way. Every change to the State Party bylaws we didn’t approve of was voted down. It was a complete and total VICTORY for the grassroots conservatives in Nevada.”

          The solution for a runaway government is the patriots’ control of a primary party and its primary elections. The PAChyderm Coalition was founded in 2002 with the Reagan Republican Party Platform and Matthew 10:16 as the founding principles. In 2003, these constitutional conservatives wrested control of the Republican Party away from the liberal establishment. It is important to remember that taking over the Party structure does not in and by itself change legislative or executive policies. However, properly used, it can result in the election of conservative candidates at local, state and national elections.

          The PAChyderm Coalition was instrumental in electing four constitutional conservatives who were running against liberal incumbents in the 2004 Primary Elections. The PAChyderm Coalition has had unparalleled success throughout the rest of this decade. But our opponents have not gone away. They are investing a large amount of time & money attempting to undo our successful efforts.

          Rasmussen reported on December 7, 2009 (Pearl Harbor Day): “Running under the Tea Party brand may be better in congressional races than being a Republican.” Once again, the devil is in the details… That report goes on to state – “In a three-way Generic Ballot test, the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds Democrats attracting 36% of the vote. The Tea Party candidate picks up 23%, and Republicans finish third at 18%. Another 22% are undecided.”

          The 22% so-called “undecided’s” will likely break nearly 50/50 at the end of the day. And there you have it! Democrats end up with 47% of the vote. A minority of the vote, but a winning minority that will win once again if the right remains divided. (Check out the 1992 Presidential race on how that works.) The citizens of Arizona and America can only win with the combined support of the 18% RNC voters, the 23% Tea Party voters and at least forty percent of the undecideds. Only if Tea Party folks unite with RNC folks can they defeat the DNC, better known today as the Democratic Socialists of America. Scattered over numerous 3rd party efforts, the American Right has NO chance of regaining political power, much less saving U.S. sovereignty, security or freedom today.

          If the right unites, they win in a 53 – 47 take over in the next election cycle. But if they allow themselves to be divided among 3rd party efforts, they lose again to a 47% leftist minority. Once you understand the simple math, you must ask what it will take to unite the pro-American political right with what’s left of the old RNC. First and foremost, the people can no longer leave the “doing” to others. They must directly engage in the process individually and at the local level, the precinct level.

          Maricopa County Chairman Rob Haney and The PAChyderm Coalition have shown the way in how to retake Arizona and America with their hard work since 2002. With a combined effort from the conservative PC’s already in place and the infusion of Tea Party activists on the foundation laid by Rob and the Pachys, the combined efforts will lead to a strong Arizona State Party that will stand for constitutional principles.

          As easy as 1, 2, 3…

          1) Elect precinct committeemen 2) Retake the Party 3) Retake the nation

          WWII Democrats and Jefferson liberals who are also angry with the current Marxist regime in Washington must either begin the process of retaking the DNC by the same methods or they must follow the course charted by Ronald Reagan, Congressman Bob Stump, Jeane Kirkpatrick and millions of other former Democrat constitutionalists – join the large base of conservatives already in place within the RNC which is ripe for the taking.

          For more information on how to reclaim Arizona, reply to Pachy@q.com, or r_b_haney@yahoo.com or visit the PAChyderm Coalition website.

          We look forward to the infusion of additional troops to carry us to victory in the on-going battle. The good news is that you are not alone! Conservative, freedom loving Precinct committeemen are being appointed every day.

          <<<

          Guess where I’ll be tomorrow night? Meeting with four other conservative precinct committeemen who are running with me on a slate of “conservative Republican precinct committeemen” for the five open Maricopa County GOP member-at-large positions on the Executive Guidance Council. Where will we be meeting? At a restaurant where the Pachyderm Coalition will be having its meeting to educate conservative Republican voters about the need to become precinct committeemen.

          Then maybe we’ll be able to, in the future, send some men and women with character to DC.

          Thank you.
          ColdWarrior

          • penguin2

            I am on board. Will begin to attend the meetings that get one appointed as a precinct committeeman. Apparently they are “thrilled” to have someone interested. Along with that, is my goal of seeking out who are the conservative activists in this area, there is definitely a difference between the establishment Republicans running the show, and Tea Party Activists and others like myself, who want to stop this business as usual stuff.

            Wish you were in my area :) and 2) do you know if there is any national database being collated to aid local conservatives in this quest?

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            Thanks for becoming a PC in Virginia — can you write up a short “how to become a precinct committeeman in Virginia” article and post it on the web so I can link to it? Or, if such a guide exists, could you point me to it.

            And, thanks for not mentioning the Army-Navy game.

            I also hope you will be dragging your husband to the meetings.

            There are several conservative groups that sort of mirror the Republican Party and urge their members to become precinct committeemen. The Pachyderm Coalition is one. There are state organizations called Republican Assemblies that are “conservative Republican” groups. In some states they are strong, in some not so strong. You may also know that Campaign for Liberty is more of a amalgamation of libertarians who have decided to try to work within the Republican Party.

            I have come to know Tony Warren, Phil Glass and JB Williams, who have started a new precinct committeeman recruitment web site project at www.nationalprecinctalliance.org

            I help them out as best I can and have linked to it on my little blog.

            Thanks again for coming into the real ball game. You are going to have a lot of fun!

            Sincerely,
            ColdWarrior

          • mom2oneson
          • penguin2

            Most of us had no idea that our representative government had turned into a political aristocracy. Now that we are aware, we must do something, even if it seems small. Have not got all the details ironed out yet, due to holidays, but will keep you posted.

            On Mr. Penguin, funny you should mention him, because he looked at me and said, “I hope you are not planning to drag me into being one too.” And of course, being the wise penguin that I am, I just looked with soulful penguin eyes at him, and smiled.

            It would have been cruel to mention the outcome of the Army/Navy game. I certainly had you on my mind that day, and we never wish for our friends to suffer. For me, the most beautiful moments of the game came after, in the interview with the coach and his recognition of the character and strength of those young men and women. Military academy rivalries are just a match between true friends.

  • bk

    Never mind, we know the answer to that.

    • Dan Perrin

      that’s a big no

  • izoneguy

    You cannot trust Obama and his goons…..

    The minute these Senators lose their re-election bids – there goes the money. What – these Senators are going to run TV spots saying they were bought off to pass a crappy bill that will take your freedom & choice? How stupid can they be?
    They might have a snowballs chance in hell to get re-elected if they stand AGAINST Obama….but we all know that they are rigging the system so that the democrats that lose will be going to work for the new government run healthcare system – for life……

    • cari

      there was an amendment idea floated to require any formerly elected member of the house or senate to abide by a 10 year waiting period to be able to hold any paid position created by this bill, including lobbyist.

  • izoneguy

    800,000 Doses of Kids’ H1N1 Vaccine Recalled

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580281,00.html

    ATLANTA ? Health officials are recalling hundreds of thousands of doses of swine flu vaccine after tests indicated they may not be potent enough to protect against the virus.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention notified doctors about the recall Tuesday. The recall involves about 800,000 doses made by Sanofi Pasteur.

    • bk

      “Bush lets his rich pharma friends get away with murder — literally.”

      “H1aN1 shortage proves Bush doesn’t care and HHS is worried more about politics and not protecting people’s lives”

  • http://guyaverage.blogspot.com guyaverage

    it will indicate that he was never dedicated to Pro-Life or any other cause. The cost of baby-murder will have been set at $500 Billion (or $500 Million or whatever the true figure is) from his point of view. Actually, the cost of baby-murder plus the cost of the destruction of Liberty if the long-term implications are considered.

    • izoneguy

      Where will this money come from when the US is insolvent?
      The NEW Great Depression will clear the decks of most US taxpayers.

      The Chinese will tell Obama to take a flying leap.

      But hey – we have Universal HealthCare!!!!!!
      Too bad the doctors & nurses all quit.

  • bs

    According to Michelle Malkin, Susan Collins is with Lieberman in DC. I suspect that either she or Snowe will vote with the Dems and Reid gets his 60 without Nelson.

    • bs

      Collins says “”It’s still too deeply flawed for me to support it.”"

      For now.

    • Richard Mullins

      Really, they still have Single Payer on the table and the Vapor bill isn’t even up. Today is 15th Day of the month of December and I’m sure that nothing is going anywhere before Christmas. Heck, not even before New Year’s Day.

  • Composer_Man

    I’m not convinced this is a completely done-deal. There are still a few more hurdles before our goose is cooked. (Like that mixed metaphor?)

    For example, all the “progressives” (i.e., socialists) need is one Senator to buck the compromise and insist on public option and they’re back at stalemate.

    Also, it’s not clear what is going to happen in the House. The dynamic is very fluid right now, and I will be very interested to see how it all plays out.

    (For now, it sure is fun to see the liberal websites going ballistic over the “sell out” of the “corporatist” “shills” masters” and “corrupt shills.” I’d say they are taking it badly, eh?)

    • Richard Mullins

      in fact we should guarantee it happens.

    • LibertarianHawk

      I agree that the game isn’t over. Finding a single bill that can pass both houses (in a politically timely fashion) may prove to be a bridge too far. We’ll have to wait and see.

      But I disagree about the Senate calculus right now. With folks like Harkin, Brown, Rockefeller, etal saying that they’ll vote for the bill without the PO, without the Medicare buy-in, and probably even without the 90% “Medical Loss ratio”, I’d say that they’ve got the numbers they’ll need.

      Keep in mind, they’ve always got Snowe and Collins if they need them. So far as I can tell, the only two possible defections from the left are Burris and Sanders. And, even if they defect, they don’t necessarily have to vote against cloture (that’s important to remember….a Senator can vote against the bill without holding it up by way of cloture).

      So the bill’s fate is probably on its way to the other side of the Capitol. Whether or not Pelosi can cobble together the votes there remains to be seen. I’m pretty skeptical, given how the earlier vote turned out. The left has more collective power in the House than it does in the Senate — and the grassroots left is apoplectic about this compromise (or capitulation, as they’d call it).

      But maybe she can win over enough Blue Dogs who voted against the House version to render the Weiners and Franks of the world powerless.

      Thing is: from a policy standpoint, the bill is still a bleepin’ disaster.

      But, from a political standpoint, I think the successful passage of this kind of bill is actually the best result for our future prospects.

      The left hates it, so they’re not going to gain any political energy from it. And I think the Dems long ago lost any hope of having independents on-board with the reform — with or without the public option.

      They’re going to enact a bill that almost no broad constituency likes very much. I suspect we’re going to see support numbers for the legislation plummet in the near future — as the remaining holdouts on the left throw in the towel.

      • IJB
  • LibertarianHawk

    By capitulating on the public option (and the whole Medicare buy-in insanity), I think they’ve opened themselves up to wooing over not only Lieberman and Nelson, but quite possibly Snowe and/or Collins, too….if necessary.

    And I really don’t get the sense that they’re fearing McCaskill, Lincoln, or Landrieu will vote against cloture (and their votes clearly aren’t needed on the bill’s passage itself).

    So that gives them a possible pool of 62 votes — which would mean that both Burris and Sanders could join the filibuster without impacting the bill’s fate.

    At this point in time, I think the question goes back to the House. They passed a much more liberal bill with only a couple votes to spare.

    How does the Senate bill’s lack of a “Stupak-Pitts” amendment affect a conference bill’s fate in the House (or vice versa)? How about its lack of a public option or anything like it?

    As of this morning, I think it’s virtually guaranteed the Senate will pass a bill. What seems like it could be pretty tough will be whether or not the conference can produce something that would thread the needles in both houses.

    I’m still skeptical on that count. The numbers are very, very close — and they’ve gotten to the point where the liberals are going to have to forfeit almost everything at the top of their wishlist.

    In that vein, watch what happens with drug reimportation — and remember that the WH bought off the Pharmaceutical industry with a guarantee that this wouldn’t be in any bill he signs. I, personally, think they were suckers to take that pledge.

    • izoneguy

      to trust Obama. He lies….he manipulates….and will say or do anything to get something passed. Something that will be changed later – in the dead of night and then signed into law while the American people are caught up in the Christmas holiday…..

    • bk

      “I have some concerns with the bill and after much consideration have decided that I will vote against it, but this is an important enough issue that I believe it deserves a fair up or down vote and we’ll let the chips fall where they may.”

  • Paul Seale

    For those who have not followed her voting record and condecending tone during town halls, let me fill you in.

    Even though the people and state of Missouri opposes this healthcare bill she has made it clear not only she supports the efforts – but wants the public option in.

    So do not think for a second she may be sitting on the sidelines doing nothing.

    She is one of those people who issues press releases to play headlines then votes about as hard left as you can.

    • Dan Perrin

      to believe anything else is fantasy land.

  • gnomechumpsky

    …now I’m not so sure. I will say this however, this cannot be over even if it is passed and signed into law. The worst thing we can do is accept it. Anyone running for a seat in congress or the senate should have to pledge to overturn it to get your vote – no exceptions. This is as bad as it looks and will cause a lot of misery if it isn’t stopped.

    • izoneguy

      Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, Communists. whatever you are.

      The purpose of this bill is too take control of 1/6 more of the American economy. Americans that still have jobs will be taxed into oblivion.
      I just wonder how long this statist government – run by thungs can keep grabbing before their hands get cut off?

  • conservativegeorgian43

    Nelson will cave. Lieberman will cave. They’re all whores – in fact, prostitutes have a lot more honor than these people. In fact they’re guilty of treason! They took an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution and they’re destroying it. They have no constitutional authority whatsoever to do what they’re doing – but they don’t care. What is the law, after all? Just something to be manipulated.

    • http://www.examiner.com/x-1597-Charlotte-Law--Politics-Examiner Mike gamecock DeVine
      • nessa

        She’s getting ready to vote FOR it!! Someone asked the other day what the definition of a Rino was…

        • ericstenner

          “I think something is going to pass and I would like to make that bill as good as possible, even if ultimately it’s not a bill that I can support.”

          What kind of moronic logic is that? She thinks the bill is going to pass, therefore she wants to improve it??? As if she has no say in whether it passes or not? She must not realize that she has a vote on whether or not it passes.

          It’s not even fair to say the Dems have 60 seats in the Senate. They really have 62.

          • IJB

            Basically, what she’s saying in so may words is, “I’m not going to vote for anything Reid puts up. But if I can take out things like the Public Option, before these morons pass something, I’ll do it.”

            If that’s what she’d saying/doing, I have no problem with it.
            In fact, I’d even laud it.

        • Marcus_Traianus
          • nessa

            “As good as possible, even if it’s a bill I can’t support?” Is that McConnell’s Commanders Intent? Is that the Endstate he has the Senate Republicans working towards? What a way to run a fight. Idiots.

            In the Airborne we have a thing called LGOPs. Little Groups of Paratroopers. As it is explained, amidst the confusion on the Drop Zone after an airborne insertion, a frightening thing happens. While trying to assemble into fighting elements what you end up with are LGOPs, small groups of pissed off 19 and 20 year olds, seriously lacking in adult supervision and who collectively remember the Commanders Intent as “March to the sound of the guns and kill everyone not dressed like you.” Happily they set about their day’s work.

            That Senator, is how to fight something.

          • Marcus_Traianus

            My friends in those units have more character and integrity in their little fingers then the entire Congress- both sides of the aisle.

            It’s like comparing a man who would sell his mother for a cookie to the baker who feeds a town for free.

          • nessa

            It requires character and integrity to serve something bigger than yourself. Our congress crittrers can’t imagine anything bigger than themselves.

  • Mayhem

    The GOP Senate leadership has stated that until circumstances turn dire on the bill, they will continue to use messaging amendments to try and stop the bill.

    In the last 48 hours, circumstances have turned dire.

    Mr. McConnell, now is the time to hit the panic button. It is debatable whether your initial strategy was wise or not. That doesn’t matter now. The Democrats have found a way to get 60 votes. That means you MUST start nuclear war on the Senate floor. As the leader of the opposition, you have the obligation to block this bill. You must do everything you can to save this Republic, or you are just becoming a part of the problem. You will tacitly be part of passing this bill.

    Mr. Coburn and Mr. DeMint: If your leader won’t bring the Senate to a grinding halt, you must start viewing him as you view the Democrats–a part of the problem. You must start opposing your party leader and objecting to these unanimous consent requests. Force the delay of this bill until 2010.

    Gosh darn it, save our Republic!

    • bs
  • crosley

    My first preference would have been for NO health care reform bill be passed, but now that there’s no Medicare expansion, and no Public Option, this crap-sandwich is going to be MUCH easier to reform or repeal, and it will purge a HUGE amount of Democrats from Congress in the next two elections. The “blue dog” game is over in the Red States.

    In a weird way, the best thing that could have happened to Clinton and the Democrats would have been if Clinton’s budget and tax increases had failed in Congress (it passed by a single vote). You probably wouldn’t have had the Republican takeover in Congress in 1994.

    2010 will be a slaughter for Democrats if any health care bill passes, and I’m guessing most of the onerous parts of the bill will be repealed before they are even enacted.

    • realskinny

      You’re being awfully optimistic here.

    • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

      and historical revisionism. No way the Republican can get 67 Senate votes and 2/3rds in the House. Especially with Snowe and Collins waiting to sign on.

      • crosley

        That’s to overcome a Presidential veto. To repeal or reform legislation you can do it with just a basic bill in Congress signed by the President. It won’t happen until 2012 (when we get a different President) but most of the bill doesn’t even go into effect until after 2012 anyway.

        If there’s no Medicare expansion or Public Option, it’s much easier to to throw parts of this bill out because you’re not taking away an entitlement. Now the devil’s in the details, but if both those are thrown out, this bill will just make health care more expensive for the average American, it’s not going to win very many people over or have a captive audience like a new entitlement would.

        Don’t get me wrong, I would prefer nothing pass, but the Democrats will pay a heavy political price for this, and when you have 2/3rds of the nation against something, there’s a very good chance public opinion will eventually prevail.

      • IJB

        If it’s a regulations only bill, it *WILL* be much easier to either repeal outright, or at least knee-cap (through simple defunding).

        And Collins and Snowe have *not* signed on, at least at this point.

        • crosley

          Obviously, I don’t know what the final version of the bill will be, but if a compromise is made and the public option and and Medicare expansion are gone, this really becomes an easy bill to drown later on.

          My guess is the worst of it will be more regulations, higher taxes, and higher health care costs (all bad) but not a game changer that will enslave future generations.

          • erod

            But putting this into perspective, what is the health bill going to bring us. For one it will bring a lot of misery: higher taxes, more gov regulation, and medicare cuts that will result in rationing. However, taxes can always be cut, other reforms such as tort reform and selling of insurance across state lines can be brought in and medicare funds can be put back in.

            Yes, no doubt this can be reformed although it will create another burden for the next couple of years and higher taxes. But, it is not the end of private insurance it’s just the begining of a horrible piece of legislation that results in everyone paying more, and that is very bad.

            IMO I think this issue is not going to go away in the next election and in the presidential race. If we can elect a true consservative in 2012 and repeal some of the RINOS from congress we MAY be able to repeal a lot of this crappy legislation.

          • erod

            But putting this into perspective, what is the health bill going to bring us. For one it will bring a lot of misery: higher taxes, more gov regulation, and medicare cuts that will result in rationing. However, taxes can always be cut, other reforms such as tort reform and selling of insurance across state lines can be brought in and medicare funds can be put back in.

            Yes, no doubt this can be reformed although it will create another burden for the next couple of years and higher taxes. But, it is not the end of private insurance it’s just the begining of a horrible piece of legislation that results in everyone paying more, and that is very bad.

            IMO I think this issue is not going to go away in the next election and in the presidential race. If we can elect a true consservative in 2012 and repeal some of the RINOS from congress we MAY be able to repeal a lot of this crappy legislation.

    • Achance

      Anybody who thinks this toothpaste can be put back in the tube is deluded and by November ’10, only people like us will even remember this. National Health Care will just be an accepted part of life.

      • IJB

        Cut: Welfare (1996).

        I’m getting a little sick of the “oh, there’s nothing we can do!” if this passes. It’s not true. And it’s not helpful.

        It’s especially not true of the Dems are forced to take out Public Option.

        • Achance

          one’s actions on the expectation of a mistake by the opponent or on some future action that you don’t have the current capability to carry out. And looking past the current battle to something we “might” be able to maybe do in the future is certainly not helpful.

          • redpens

            the other day. Thank you Turban Durbin

          • bk

             

        • JSobieski

          Even now, the “regulatory” aspects of the bill aren’t getting that much attention. Its easier to focus attention and energy on abortion or public option, but the fact that the government is about to force all health plans to offer the same plan is a bit more complex of a problem.

          Getting the public re-energized on this issue at a later date will be VERY DIFFICULT. It would be be easier to undo a “public option” plan because people are really pissed about that.

          • Richard Mullins

            It’s not going well for a bill to pass the senate right now.

  • http://andrightlyso.com/ civil_truth

    Not to mention the blood of those who’ve fought for our freedom and representative government over the past 235 years.

    This kind of betrayal is what brings down the wrath of God on a nation.

    • redneck_hippie

      And you’ve pinpointed the worst of it. What began as cultural degradation is ending in infamy.

  • redneck_hippie

    part-time employees as the bill stands now (heard on the radio). Not that it matters…

    This congress has taken winning ugly to world-shattering ridiculosity. Or losing ugly if you’re conservative. I, too, am just sick over this.

    I read Men in Black last week-end and am now into Liberty and Tyranny. It is so gosh-awful to be living through this and knowing that things will not get better for a long, long time, if ever. Will our grandchildren ever realize what we once had?

    • Dan Perrin

      YESTERDAY?

      They deserve their fate.

      I agree that politically the best thing is for this bill to pass, but it is a total disaster for the country.

      I still do not believe it will pass, however.

      I just can not believe the left will roll over, and I seriously doubt Collins and Snowe will vote for it.

      • crosley

        These health care industries and large employers are going to lose billions from this deal, I’m amazed they were so intimidated by Obama. You haven’t heard a peep from them this entire debate.

        When the Clintons tried this, the “powers that be” took to the airwaves and had a big hand in killing health care reform. They really dropped the ball this time.

        I also think Republicans should sign on to importing drugs from Canada as payback to the pharmaceutical companies for cutting their deal with the devil.

      • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

        I greatly applaud and agree with the need for optimism, but “cautious optimism.” I’ve been afraid that word-choices such can WILL/WOULD rather than CAN/COULD being used in regard to our “optimism.” Maintaining the urgency for folks to be engaged as we CAN beat it as opposed to running the risk of accidentally letting some folks go back to sleep if convinced it WILL be beaten. I have thought all along there is a 50/50 chance of Pass/Fail as it is only a couple of people on the margins that need to go one way or the other…. So let’s keep on them and at them…. It is indeed NOT OVER until a Bill is Signed by the Communist-In-Chief —

        CAN it be beaten still?
        In the words of the Obamunist
        YES WE CAN

        Collins and Snowe have been weeble wobbling both directions all along — they can/MAY vote for it and the urgency of harping on them the reasons why this is ALL BAD (NOT ONE BIT OF IT GOOD) and must be defeated. That we CAN (in this case, should be a WE AS CONSERVATIVES WILL revisit it and work for REAL REFORMS that reduce costs and increase coverages over this TAKEOVER — but first KILL THE BILLs that cannot be fixed!

        Collins has been attached to Liebermans hip lately, she is very close to going YES —- but WE CAN (hopefully, will be able to) change her mind IF we keep on her and drum into her how/why it should be killed and start over to do the things we as Conservatives have always said could be put into place to help the Health Care Insurance issues without destroying Health Care Quality!!!!!

        Again, Collins and Snowe are being courted to provide cover for Democrats just as happened with the Omnibus — 3 R’s give 3 weak D’s duplicity coverage voting FOR Omnibus spending —- unless they want Democrats to maintain control and push the Public Option FIX after 2010?!?!?! I’ve been on this since August, McLAME hasn’t been any REAL OPPOSITION either:
        +McCain (R-Aricept) “Senator Aricept” (John McCain)
        +McCain HC – McCain HC Townhall details, another sell-out pre-declared! (with more comments 306-7+ here and here w/ limited Video)
        +McCain Senate debate on HR3590 (Reid) – HR3590 Amendments fiasco plus McLame with Republican Amendment and here

        Our wishy-washy Republicans (CINOs) are more than happy to piss away the high gains we should be looking at in 2010 (the BarackLash h/t:scarlos) by all their COOPERATION! SENATE REPUBLICANS MUST BE TOLD TO STOP HELPING LIBERALS/DEMOCRATS!!!!! Seems some of them would prefer to remain cushy/comfy in minority positions — we have to weed them out as we go forward too, of course.

        • Richard Mullins

          I don’t think that any Dem would actually do the right thing and not let it pass but I do see a lot of Back-biting going on amongst themselves. When it stop, the optimism stops too. Nothing kill things more than hatred for another’s amendment. If they agree in lockstep, then we as country as doomed. I’m sorry to go against the passionate ones here on the issue.

  • Dan Perrin

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/14/814214/-Congratulations,-Senate-Dems!!!

    • crosley

      The hard Left hates this, conservaives hate it, and the moderates and independents don’t really like it either. But the talking heads in the MSM will trumpet that Obama had a big “win”.

      That’s really all this bill has become, to give Obama a “win” so as not to embarrass the Messiah.

      When people learn of the details, this legislation will be a drag on Obama’s and Democrats’ reelection efforts, but it will all be worth it for a few favorable news cycles on Obama’s huge victory. Right?

  • mom2oneson

    I know it’s bad and a hot issue but what exactly is it?

    • nessa

      …it’s government provided, taxpayer funded health insurance. What the details would be are constantly changing depending on the current compromise. In addition to the taxpayer expense, the public option also includes plans and mandates to increase the number of citizens who are forced into the public option as they lose insurance, fail to purchase their own, the insurance they have doesn’t meet gov’t minimum mandatory requirements, or if they are unfortunate enough to have earned Tri-care through a lifetime of service to this country.

      It’s a large stepping stone to a single payer system, once private insurance companies can no longer afford to compete with the post office version of govt healthcare insurance and they all go out of business, we’re in a single payer system. Which is what the progressives have wanted all along.

    • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

      It is that simple…. It will be a GSE like Fannie/Freddie being created to try and PRETEND to be independent and “private” competition (ALL BS, of cousre) that will be mostly subsidized by Taxpayer money in order to undercut and put Private HC Insurance out of business to get the country to Single-Payer.

      CALL IT Freddie-HaC HC, of course, for Health Care

    • bk

      The idea there is that all payments for health care come from the government. That’s the holy grail for them – it gives the government complete control when you can’t walk into your own doctor and write him a check for treatment.

      • mom2oneson
    • gremlin1974

      I am a Nurse in a clinic with 50 doctors and 7 specalities; I work in the G.I. dept we have our own radiology dept in the building including CT and MRI, part of my job is to get procedures approved through insurance companies, most of the time known as a pre-cert.

      A pre-cert for most things follows a pretty standard procedure. Lets use a CT scan.
      Step 1) I take a deep breath and get ready to waste 15 to 45 minutes of my life making a phone call to an insurance company.

      Step 2) I call the insurance company and listen to the same recorded message that tells me that even though I am doing this pre-cert they resever the right not to pay for a damn thing if they find it was “unjustified”. (Actually very rarely happens)

      Step 3) If/when I finally get a human, or more likely a really well written computerr program with voice recognition, I give them/it the patients information and when we agree that its the correct patient I inform the entity on the other end of the phone what procedure is and why we want to do it.

      Step 4) The entity on the phone then checks this information againist a list of approved reasons and if I have given them the correct answers they give me an approval number; OR go to Step 5.

      Step 5) After part of the headache subsides; I have to give the insurance company further information. Now this is the first time I might actually get to speak to another Medical Professional, usually a Nurse or Physician. If I do get to actually speak to them then we can discuss the case I can actually use the medical vocabulary that I have spent most of my life learning and if I get a reasonable person then they approve the procedure and I get an approval number.

      Now sometimes we get to skip all of the above and the insurance company Medical Professional wants to speak directly to the physician for whom I work, I am sure you can imagin how much he enjoys that, and they have the same discussion I would have had as above, but they get to rub their MD’s together.

      The other alternative is that they request “clinical data”, i.e. anywhere from a few pages of notes to the entire freaking chart, which is faxed to them so that they can review the data and see if the procedure is justified. Which they usually give themselves up to 72 hours to complete. Then hopefully I get an approval number.

      Then I get to listen to the final disclaimer that informes me again that all the work I have just done is not a gaurentee (sp?) of payment and that if someone forgets to attach the approval number to the bill that is sent to the insurance company they will not pay and that they reasons for the procedure will be reviewed again before they pay and if found wanting the work I just did is once again wasted, cause they won’t pay.

      In all honesty 85% of the time I never have to go through step 5 that 15% more than makes up for the 85%.

      Now keep in mind that what i just discribed is just the interaction with the insurance company for a single CT scan on one patient, it has nothing to do witth the actual medical part of my job or the scheduling; that is just to get an ok to preform the procedure so that the insurance company will actually consider paying for it. I sitll have to do all the nursey stuff like explain it to the pt, ask them the medical questions, etc…etc.

      Now that you have all of that in your mind, take a napkin and wipe the blood that is trickeling from your nose, and imagin the United States Government agency running it and making up the lists of what is acceptable.

      I apologize to anyone who suffered any adverse effects from the post, like brain melt and the like.

      • izoneguy

        Universal Healthcare won’t work.

        Healthcare run by the government will be like standing in line for food stamps. It will be relegated to that status. They will quit doing scans and tests and anything else that might actually cost money.

        Take 12 Valums and don’t call back. Good Night.

      • Old_Crow

        would be 2 to 3 hours. or more.

        My son has had eight surgical procedures during the past year and I’m very familiar with insurance company billing discrepancies, misunderstandings, delays, etc. The medical staff we’ve worked with have been absolutely superb. However, I could certainly pick up on their frustrations, especially when trying to diagnose a complex medical problem.

        I shudder at how this health care system would work when government paper-pushers are inserted at every level…

        • izoneguy

          My accountant loved to tell me of the horror stories about going to the IRS to help clients with audits. When our healthcare system gets tied in with the IRS then just wait until they deny you healthcare because you are behind on your taxes. Now Open wide and say: ARRRUUGGGHHHH!!!!!!

  • gremlin1974

    First of all I am not accusing anyone with this first question, but I think it needs to be asked.

    Is it possible that the Republicans are sitting back and letting this pass because they know that odds are they they will be in control after next year and then they will have this power for themselves? I hate to think that this may be true and I really don’t believe it, but I still felt I had to ask.

    Second question, is without the public option or some form of it, doesn’t half of this bill just become a creation of usless beauricratic jobs with relativly little power and some very unwise regulation?

    I really don’t mean to offend with the first question but I haven’t seen it asked yet and I think it needs to be asked.

    God Bless and help us all if this passes.

    • timothypeterleal

      Is it possible that the Republicans are sitting back and letting this pass because they know that odds are they they will be in control after next year and then they will have this power for themselves? I hate to think that this may be true and I really don?t believe it, but I still felt I had to ask.
      ——————————————

      The GOP has no power they do not have the ability to stop any of Obama’s actions

      The only group holding up a vote at this point is Democrats

    • Dan Perrin

      and it really is a question that needs to be asked.

      They are convinced it is incompetence on McConnell’s part.

      I am not.

      • cari

        Please tell us what you know.

      • bk
  • http://afencepost.blogspot.com ckncook

    I tried to email Ben from bennelson.senate.gov, but I’m not from Nebraska. So, instead, I submitted my comment as “Mr. Your Conscience” and used the address for his Lincoln, NE office (and his senate email address bennelson@senate.gov) as my email address.

    I figured it would be doing him a favor … this way he’ll at least see all the spam he sends out to his constituents! :)

    Of course, there’s a great chance he has no conscience and will know it’s fake, but it was worth a shot.

  • erod

    Dean: “Kill the Senate Bill”
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2408163/posts

    Burris:
    ?I am committed to voting for a bill that achieves the goals of a public option: competition, cost savings and accountability,?
    http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/burris-pushes-back/

    Just saying it’s not over, yet…

    • erod

      http://patriotroom.com/article/lefties-to-reid-kill-the-bill–is-it-over-

      • Dan Perrin

        Gave you a H/T, you have made my day.

        http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2009/12/15/howard-dean-kill-the-senate-bill/

        Who is Bill Dupray? The first paragraph of his post at patriotroom is brilliant.

    • bk

      Which dem will be the first to demand a billion dollars for his or her vote? We’re getting threre … $300M, then $500M, next ….

  • Dan Perrin

    :)

  • redpens

    to enslave all of us. Next course of action: nullification, revolt, and secession. We’re only voluntary members of the Republic after all.

    • izoneguy

      Than waiting to die a slow death under “Universal Healthcare”

  • http://guyaverage.blogspot.com guyaverage

    Isn’t it located where it is in Nebraska because it needs to be located there? I’m sure the Obama Administration does not care about the defense of the country, certainly not more than they care about their Socialist Agenda. It would, however cost lots and lots of Defense Dollars to relocate the SAC and wherever they send it would be less than the current optimal location.

    Maybe they’ll put it in Illinois, along with the GITMO Gang.