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Daily Kos: Since Bill is Dead, You are Now Weapons-Free on ObamaCare

By: Dan Perrin (Diary)  |  December 18th, 2009 at 12:27 PM  | 

RESIZE: AAA

Daily Kos, essentially with this post, is telling the left to go-ahead and beat ObamaCare to a pulp because it is not going to pass anyway. It’s a message to the liberal base: you are now officially in weapons-free status on ObamaCare.

And what post caused me to come to this conclusion? Daily Kos posted the audio of Senator Nelson’s recent radio interview in Lincoln, Nebraska. And Daily Kos comes to the following conclusions about the interview, which I agree with:

“Nelson’s key points:

1. Asked if he would vote for cloture even if his initiative to restrict abortion were adopted, Nelson flatly said “no.”

2. Nelson not only said a vote before Christmas was not feasible, he joked about it taking until next Christmas.

3. Nelson said unless the bill’s Medicaid expansion provisions were made optional he would oppose cloture.

4. Nelson said the bill’s revenue provisions were unacceptable because the economy was bad.

5. Nelson said because the subsidies which provide the bill’s coverage expansion couldn’t be paid for without additional revenue, they needed to be “scaled-back”

6. Nelson also that unless cost control were addressed first, coverage couldn’t be expanded.

“In sum: unless Ben Nelson is bluffing, the only way he will vote for cloture is if abortion is restricted, the subsidies are whacked, the revenue provisions are nuked, and its Medicaid expansion is gutted. Oh, and he doesn’t think there’s any chance of it happening by Christmas.

“So now that Ben Nelson has named his price (not that he can’t move the goalposts again), Democratic leadership must choose one of three scenarios: (a) cave in to Nelson’s demands Lieberman-style, thereby eliminating any pretense of this being a good bill; (b) call Nelson’s bluff and schedule a cloture vote without satisfying his demands; or (c) abandoning negotiations with Nelson and choosing instead to pursue reconciliation.”

This just in from Talking Points Memo:

“MoveOn.org is asking its members to send letters to their senators asking them to oppose the health care bill entirely.”

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COMMENTS

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  • erod

    It seems like Harry Reid is following his plan to a tee and we are going to get the cloture vote on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. How could this not happen now? If he’s scheduling the vote he must not be bluffing and have something up his sleeve? Is Harry screwing with us to make us believe that the passage of this bill is inevitable?

    • Composer_Man

      I’m a firm believer that someone’s past actions are the best predictor of their future actions. Throughout this process, Harry Reid has continuously bluffed about having a “deal”, a “compromise”, a “settlement” – heck, even a “bill.” So far, those have proven to be just bluffs.

      Taking that in combination with the chatter on the blogs/news/etc., I’m inclined to think that as it stands today, Harry does not know for certain that he has 60 votes. However, he is pretty certain that every day that passes makes it less likely that he will get 60, particularly if this spills into 2010. Ergo, he has scheduled the vote and is proceeding under the assumption that he can put something together between now and then.

      Whether or not he can, I think is still up in the air.

      • Mayhem

        He’s thinking, “if we don’t get this now, we’ll never get it.” So he’s pulling the trigger blindly and hoping he hits the bull’s eye.

      • Common_Cents

        Punch drunk Harry is gonna put the pressure on them for blowing up “affordable health care for all Americans”. It takes quite a bit to stand against the cocktail party set inside the beltway.

    • Richard Mullins

      He wants you to be afraid and bow down too him. He uses we have the 60 votes and stop me routine. We don’t need to be afraid of this idiot at all. Just for the record, there not even going to vote on an amendment until after Saturday(6 days before Christmas). There just aren’t many days until that happens and if the left continues the napalm effect on the bill, it’s all over. No fear.

    • earlgrey

      I agree if the vote is scheduled the deal is done. Are there no more stalling tactics the GOP can use to push this back past Christmas? I don’t see how the polls can get any worse for this plan.

      After this passes, what do you think will happen with the conservative movement? Will it be fired up or demoralized?

      • yoyo

        Torches and PitchForks Storming the Gates.

    • IJB

      I’m of the firm opinion that, for this year at least, this is over.

      Right now:

      -They definitely don’t have Nelson of NE.
      - I’m starting to hear they may not have Webb (though I’ll believe that when I see it).
      - And I’m not sure they have Lieberman 100% nailed down.
      - Finally, both Snowe and Collins are firm “No’s”.

      No matter how you slice it, Reid has, at best, 59, and probably more like 57.

      And if Reid can’t get to a firm 60, when he calls for a cloture vote, he won’t get 59 – he’ll be luck to get 45.

      I do wonder, though, if Reid is starting to plan to call the cloture vote anyway, knowing it will fail (probably *badly*), and then use that as an excuse to put work on this off indefinitely.

      We’ll know soon if that’s what he’s going to do…

      • Mayhem

        If only there were more than 2 weeks left in the year! LOL.

        On Lieberman, it’s important to understand that if Reid’s manager’s amendment fails to get 60 votes, Leiberman is suddenly back in the NO camp. The only reason that he’s a yes vote right now is because Reid’s amendment caters to all the demands he’s been making since summertime. If that fails, then Leiberman reverts back. And Nelson is not on board the manager’s amendment as of today.

        • Dan Perrin

          in the yes camp.

          Since it kills off the public option and has no Medicare buy-in — do you think the left will vote to kill the public option?

          Will Sanders?

          Will Feingold?

          Will Burris?

          Will Franken?

      • discombobulated

        Webbs office is polling to see which way the wind blows. Call and get him to oppose cloture.

        • JadedByPolitics

          UNSEAMLY it was that Reid would MAKE this vote on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day when 61% of the public is AGAINST it and it would RUIN their Christmas. They only required my name and my zip code and luckily I am a Virginia resident so perhaps they will put more stock into what I say(yeah right). I am now emailing ALL of my VA buddies and telling them to MAKE THE CALL :)

          • Dan Perrin

            Like, pronto.

          • http://www.theprecinctproject.wordpress.com ColdWarrior

            To: Senator Ben Nelson, NE, 1-202-228-0012
            Senator Jim Webb, VA, 1-202-228-6363
            Senator Mark Warner, VA, 1-202-224-6295

            KILL THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL ?HEALTH CARE? BILL!

            You took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Article VI demands only laws ?in Pursuance? of the Constitution be passed. Article I, Section 8 sets forth certain limited, enumerated powers. Power over my wife?s and my children?s ?health care? is not included. The Tenth Amendment, as you know, states, ?The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.?

            Sen. Webb, you, as a Naval Academy grad, should know better. Where is your honor? When did you lose it?

            I am a Republican Party precinct committeemen and I guarantee you I am recruiting every decent American I know to come into the Party as a precinct committeeman ?- you will see a better crop of conservative Republicans on the general election ballots in 2010.

            Honor your oaths. Fight for the American people?s rights. Restore limited government. You know the federal government has no legitimate power over an individual?s right to spend on their health care as they see fit. Leave me and my family alone! We don?t belong to you.

            Questions? Call me. Meanwhile, re-read the Constitution and examine your conscience and your oath.

            Sincerely,

            <<<<

            Frankly, I believe the only kind of communication with these unprincipled thieves and louts is one that includes the fact that you’re a conservative and that you either are, or will become, a precinct committeeman in the Republican Party. Because only that directly impacts negatively their chance at eventual reelection. Because, in the end, that is the only thing they really care about.

            Phone calls and faxes to Republicans have worked in the past. Recall the deluge of calls and faxes that stopped the Harriet Meiers nomination to the Supreme Court. And to stop the Shamnesty bill for illegal aliens. But the targets in those cases were Republicans. Some have a modicum of personal honor and may actually believe in truth. I believe virtually all of the Democrats do not believe in any objective truth. Almost all are post Modernists. Words like truth and honor are just that — words that can and should be changed in meaning as they see fit rather than absolute concepts that one should strive to ascertain and apply to any given set of facts.

            Look at the dullard Rep. Zack Space as Exhibit A:

            http://www.redstate.com/athensrunaway/2009/12/18/zack-space-thinks-youre-a-moron-and-if-you-vote-for-him-hes-right/

            As I said, virtually all of the Debtocrats are of the same mind-set.

            Thank you.
            ColdWarrior

          • hickorystick

            While your on the phone to Webb’s office a few points you might like to remind him of
            1.) He wrote a book titled “Born Fighting” about the Scots-Irish. Being that this bill harms the elderly, is that worth fighting his Party over.
            2.) Large centralized government was never a friend to an Irishman.
            3.) He claimed we have an egalitatian streak. How does voting for a bill that 60% of the people are against jibe with that concept!
            4.) This bill spends a lot and returns very little. Scotsmen are known for thriftiness.
            5.) Family is a central tenet in his book. How does funding abortion protect the “Wee Bairn”.

    • writeblock

      …about Nelson’s suggestion in a letter to Nebraska’s governor that he was trying to get the bill changed to a state buy-in option. If Reid gives him this and takes abortion out, will Nelson cave? The letter seems to contradict recent interview comments.

  • Mayhem

    they would call something like this a “conscience vote.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscience_vote

    The leftwing crackup makes me chuckle.

    • Dan Perrin

      vote of no-confidence in the government

  • Third Street

    …but he is in fact a solid no and is going to vote against cloture on ObamaCare no matter what. That certainly is the place he seems to be moving to; he isn’t being cowed by Democrat threats, and he doesn’t seem to be willing to turn himself into a prostitute in the mold of Sister Senator Mary.

    That leaves Dingy at 59. His only hope therefore is to peel off at least one Republican, and who will it be? Snowe and/or Collins? As others have pointed out before, the Maine Twins never cross the aisle unless they have cover from other liberal GOP senators, and Specter ain’t there to give it to them anymore. Voinovich? I doubt it; he may skip the final cloture vote as he did the initial one, but I don’t see him casting a vote for ObamaCare and I’m not hearing anyone worried about him on our side or hopeful about him on theirs.

    So, Dingy’s still at 59. Except he isn’t even there. Because if Nelson stands firm then Webb is going to peel away from the Dems too, and perhaps even Lincoln. Reid is nowhere near where he needs to be and isn’t going to get there. Composer_Man has it right; Dingy is scheduling the vote anyway because he has no choice but to go for broke and is hoping like hell he can pull a miracle out of his ass in the interim.

    The momentum is on our side. The support is collapsing on theirs. There are more than enough Democrat senators who right now are more frightened than they have ever been in their entire careers. We are going to stop this.

    • Mayhem

      Nelson has not given any indication that he is moving towards Reid on this bill. If anything, he’s moving towards the opinion of his constituents back in Nebraska, and rightfully so. They are nearly 2-1 against the bill.

      The vote coming next week is a Hail Mary, shoot-in-the-dark, throw-the-meat-against-the-wall-and-hope-it-sticks effort on Reid’s part. He doesn’t have 60, but he hopes he will by the time it comes to vote.

    • AngryMatt

      Reid needs an absolutely firm 60 in advance before calling for the vote because without it he’ll lose up to a half-dozen of his own caucus when the final showdown happens.. if it ever does. Sans a firm whip count the moderates (except for Landrieu who has already sold herself to this deal for a few hundred million) will peel off when they see the “no” votes hit 41.

      If this were to ever make cloture, it would be 60-40 or 60-39. If the cloture vote fails, it won’t be 59-41, but it will be 55-45 at best and the positions will be even more hardened if Reid tries this again especially with four more out of pocket.

      I think you may see Reid go for broke and schedule this hoping that Nelson and Lieberman fall into place and Webb and Lincoln are firm to sit by waiting for the no tally only to hit 40 before voting. Because unless Webb and Lincoln and potentially a few others out there on the left like Burris and Sanders see Nelson and Lieberman hit the “yes” button, they’re not doing ANYTHING for fear of fallout of their positions on a failed vote. But at this point, I don’t know what Reid has to lose. The Netroots aren’t only crumbling but they are lashing out against this bill and even big labor is only quietly endorsing this after kicking up a fury yesterday.

      It’s not over folks, the pressure needs to be maintained. I don’t think Reid’s gambit, should he go for it, will work, but it certainly COULD work. The other side still holds all the cards with the widespread majorities and they’ll continue to hold all the cards until at least Jan. 2011. It’s our job to make them fold for fear of what the next hand will bring.

      • Third Street

        is that more than two or three Democrat senators will pull away from this even with cover, and that’s a very sad and frightening statement on the level of radicalization and arrogance among their number. There ought to be TWENTY Dem senators who flee from this thing given the opportunity; from Nelson in FL to Tester in MT and everyone in between, but there aren’t. They’re that leftist and that confident they can get away with voting for this.

        • Dan Perrin

          of what the final no vote would be — these guys cannot be suicidal, it is unclear how many are laying the weeds, waiting and hoping Nelson holds, then they will bolt.

      • erod

        Matt are you sure about that?
        http://newsmax.com/InsideCover/Labor-Unions-Oppose-Senate-s/2009/12/18/id/343810

        Even the AFL-CIO and SEIU are not endorsing it now in the current form.

    • yoyo

      Thanks to AGW, DC is expecting a nasty winter storm this week through Christmas. Everyone knows that Byrd is about as crotchety as they come – and hauling him in from WV in the snow for a vote is … HIGHLY unlikely. Chances are, he would not survive the trip.

      And, he is curmudgendy (sp) enough to flip Harry the, er, Byrd and vote NO … just because, uh, of who BYRD was/is and who BHO is. (Please, forgive the veiled reference, here.)

      So, this could leave the vote at 59Y, 40N, and 1A at best.

      Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow…

    • writeblock

      The fact that he’s negotiating obviously means he wants something in return for his vote. If Reid pulls a Pelosi and takes out the abortion loopholes and then agrees to a buy-in option, the game’s over. Both changes might give Reid heartburn, especially with liberals sniping at his heels. But if he wants a deal–any kind of deal–he’ll fold to Nelson who holds a better hand.

  • http://www.redstateeclectic.com enrique

    I’ve lost count on the number of times this bill has been declared dead only to find it rising up again. Saved by Stupak, saved by the GOP, saved by Obama speeches, etc.

    Until cloture fails and the Democratic leadership clears it from their schedule this thing is alive and deadly. Hopefully someone drives a stake through its heart soon.

    • Dan Perrin

      but, being clear about our chances and the battlefield is a much better approach to any fight

  • redneck_hippie

    of Kos’ article:

    “The one thing they can’t do is blame kos or Howard Dean or progressives for killing health reform. If health reform dies, it will be at the hands of the Joe Liebermans and Ben Nelsons of the world — and the people who negotiated with them.”

    Kos is trying to solidify where to place the blame for failure. That is a very good sign for us. Blame Bush and the right seems to have fallen a notch. From what Kos says, it appears the leftists are fixing bayonets in their own civil war.

    “…the Joe Liebermans and Ben Nelsons of the world — and the people who negotiated with them” WOW, who might those people be who negotiated with them???!!!

    Between this and the Naked Emporer vid you posted, my day is merry and bright. Keep it up and I may start believing in Santa again.

    • Dan Perrin

      I read there you-can’t-blame-us statement as code word for weapons hot

      • redneck_hippie

        Here is a kos comment I will use as a stocking stuffer:

        “Maybe Republicans are right that the run of the mill Democrat is an appeaser…

        People just don’t get how weak this looks and how easy it is strategize against.”

        Oh ho!

  • http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

    It would be an interesting exercise if the GOP were to propose an Amendment that a) eviscerated the original bill and b) proposed a public option paid for only by those that actually opt in. No taxes on any person or any entity. Basically those that loathe capitalism and private insurance would be free to sign up for their beloved public option, they just wouldn’t be able to force me to subsidize them. And I expect Kos to be first in line to sign up.

    Call their bluff.

    • Dan Perrin

      no more, from what I am hearing

  • http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

    …with a fish and tell him that although HE may be a Marksist (I know), most Americans are not.

  • mdyou

    …planning on requesting to read the bill on the floor? Or does that only apply to amendments?

    • Dan Perrin

      and call it as they see it at the time.

  • AngryMatt

    Isn’t it more appropriate to say that Obamacare is now in a “free fire zone”?

    • yoyo
    • Streiff

      http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/101-5-1/f545-uz.htm#weaponsfree

      • Dan Perrin

        is fitting for this situation

  • http://charlemagne-the-hammer.blogspot.com/ DerKrieger

    I’m willing to bet that if Nelson refuses to budge then some of the cowardly moderates who have been keeping their radar up and their heads down will now start to come out with statements of their own regarding the need to “slow down” or “start over” to test the waters before coming out in full blown opposition. That would be sweet. The Dems would have massively injured themselves, exposed themselves an Teh One as the Marxists they are and accomplished absolutely nothing on their agenda.

    Next year, we roll start rolling back decades of Leftist anti-free market legislation.

    • Dan Perrin

      feet.

      Webb foresaw it could come to this, and he was laying the groundwork for a no for a couple of weeks.

      The rest will get the message

      • izoneguy

        Were waiting to see if Obama could deliver anything from COP (out) 15….

        He did not and looked foolish in the process.

        Now, much easier to desert the loser that Obama is…….

        • acat

          The situation is ripe for a “gang-of-14″-style “compromise” in which the conservatives get ripped a new one…

          Mew

          • Leopard1996

            Main reason is 1. Franken and rest of the Dems doing things like cutting his boy Liberman short, and just being complete asshats, pissed him off enough to no this thing. 2. He has an election to win in 2010, and folks in AZ are totally against this, voting for this, or coming up with some compromise that let this go through may be the only thing that would ruin his inevitability of reelection (mbecker908 may tell me that he would get reelected even with this vote, he is more knowledgeable of AZ politics than I am.).

  • http://locomotivebreath1901.blogspot.com/ locomotivebreath1901

    It’s not exactly “eating their own”, but it is nibbling around the edges.
    .

    • Dan Perrin

      n/t

  • earlgrey

    There will be a vote at1 am (manager’s amendment I guess). Does this mean it is over?

    • Swamp_Yankee

      Nelson wont be aboard by Monday. Maybe Reid is just going for it. Essentially, giving up. If they get it they get it. If not, the turn the hounds of the obstructionists.

      • earlgrey

        I can’t find this on any other site. Can someone tell me how you keep Byrd up to vote for this ?

        • Dan Perrin

          mean there will be a vote.

          First there was the vapor-bill.

          Then there was the vapor-deal.

          Then there was the vapor-managers amendment.

          Now, its a vapor-vote.

          • erod

            Who the hell votes at 1am??? Don’t these people have anything better to do than to ruin this country?

            IF THIS IS SUCH A GREAT BILL WHY NOT VOTE FOR IT ON REGULAR HOURS AT A REGULAR TIME!!!!!!

            JEEZ FREAKING MORONS!!! THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE DOING AND THEY WILL PAY POLITICALLY IF THIS PASSES!!!!

          • hickorystick

            to save their Political Skin. I guess their lessons learned in the 04 election have been lost. This is what those elitists will never understand. These Values we cherish are for a lifetime, not a couple of election cycles. These Democrats are mocking our Christian traditions. I don’t want to here any press statements on Christmas morning about sacrifice or suffering, when they work one night and the People will half to be burdened by this monstrosity for generations. It was Christ who came to make us free, and conceded “The poor you will always have with you”. Using Christmas as a Human Shield is pathetic.

          • erod

            Who the hell votes at 1am??? Don’t these people have anything better to do than to ruin this country?

            IF THIS IS SUCH A GREAT BILL WHY NOT VOTE FOR IT ON REGULAR HOURS AT A REGULAR TIME!!!!!!

            JEEZ FREAKING MORONS!!! THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE DOING AND THEY WILL PAY POLITICALLY IF THIS PASSES!!!!

      • acat

        Harry knows he’s got nothing, but he *also* knows the Libs may well primary him (and *will* primary other, more moderate Dems) if it doesn’t come up for a vote.

        Reid is already facing a tough race back home – this may just be his attempt to get the far-left to go after “someone else” …

        I’m hoping Reid loses. That makes Dick(head) Durbin the most likely new Senate majority (or, hopefully, minority) leader – and he’s not nearly as smooth as Dingy Harry.

        Mew

    • Putter

      This could throw a monkey wrench into the works:
      http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/wheeling-in-the-cots-a-winter-snow-emergency–and-an-absentee-lieberman–is-complicating-democrats-h.php?ref=fpblg

      • Swamp_Yankee

        Reid is an idiot. If this Nevadan thinks some bottles of water and some cots are going to help him through a blizzard in a city that isnt prepared for a blizzard, he is stupid.

        Joe, a yankee, knows better.

  • http://guyaverage.blogspot.com guyaverage

    have to be remembered no matter what the issue at hand is. They are experts at arm-twisting and outright blackmail.

    It is not over until it is is over.

  • Dan Perrin

    Talking Points Memo is reporting MoveOn.org is telling their members to call their Senator and Kill this Bill:

    “MoveOn.org is asking its members to send letters to their senators asking them to oppose the health care bill entirely.”

    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/live/health-care/#

    • redneck_hippie

      realized Obama is not doing their bidding.

      Hey, MoveOn, how does it feel to know you’ve bought and paid for a leader who is only out for himself and will stoop to any level and betray any commitment, in order to retain his power. It couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that leftists are propagandists and liars to their very core, could it?

  • neoavatara

    As I said a few days ago, Progressives basically believe that this bill will accomplish nothing other than further damage the liberal name. The bill is withering on the vine, and liberals, in their usual slow way, took 4 months longer than conservatives to realize that the bill fails to meet the goals that anyone, left or right, set out for health care reform when this all started.
    http://neoavatara.com/blog/?p=8719

  • Common_Cents

    The melt down has begun. Dylan Ratigan going off on Wasserman-Putz.

    • erod

      ROTF LOL :D

      I’m glad these jerks are getting fired on by both sides of the aisle.

    • erod

      ROTF LOL :D

      I’m glad these jerks are getting fired on by both sides of the aisle.

  • izoneguy

  • bk

    If as he says he’s not voting for it without his abortion language and whatever else, then why wouldn’t he just say, “Screw you – I’m headed home. If you reinsert my amendment give me a call and I’ll fly back.”?

    The fact that he’s still there waiting for “acceptable” language makes it look like there’s a way he can weasel out. There is obviously a difference between “his” language and “acceptable” language, which indicates that he is leaving some gray area, right?

  • Jonbontx

    However, we need to stop fooling ourselves. How many times did we say that the Blue Dogs were not going to go along?? And look what happened. Now we are pinning all our hopes on what?? A Demoncrat!!! We are screwed!!!!! If people like Blance Lincoln isn’t listening to her constituents back home, what makes you think that Nelson is going to listen to his???? I want to believe just like everyone else (I have been physically ill over this), that this crap can be defeated. But I just don’t think we should be banking on a Demoncrat to give us good news.

    When this passes, we need to pick ourselves up and get to work as a unified party to get people elected that will do what’s right for the country.

    • earlgrey

      It is just so hard to believe it could be happening. We just want to have hope.

    • Third Street

      Defeatists make ME physically ill. And they help move this bill forward.

      • earlgrey

        I have given close to$1,000 to various anti health care causes. Called the so called conservative dems on aregular basis, took a 17 hour bus trip to the 912 rally, made family in IN call Bayh regularly (and write). That is not defeatist, but come on what else do we do?

        I appreciate your energy, but what can we do now?

  • countessolenska

    The Weekly Standard makes reference to David Brooks’ column today. He is highly regarded by Democrats and moderate Republicans. He said there are reasons to vote for the bill, but there are more and better reasons to vote against it.

  • writeblock

    The Supreme Court. It’s classic Congressional overreach. History buffs know that FDR had his comeuppance when Congress at his bidding unconstitutionally tried to pack the Supreme Court. The Supremes rebuffed Congress, handing FDR a huge defeat.

  • AKSteveB

    (and it likely will), it is mostly vaporware. Nothing important really takes effect until 2013 and as in everything it will come down to funding. As long as a new bureaucracy isn’t created (because they never die) and Medicare and Medicaid aren’t expanded, we can get rid of anything else as long as we are back in power by then. Reminder not to get emotionally caught up in an hour by hour dog and pony show . It ain’t over till it’s over, but we’re likely to duck the worst of this.

    This all reminds me of an exchange I had with GC back in the Spring when everyone was so down. I remember guaranteeing him we’d be having very different discussions vis a vis the Left by later in the year, and ..so we are. You all do great work, but once in a while you oughta stop and realize “man we’ve come a long way baby” in under a year.

  • Ausonius

    Just received the Wall Street Journal update: they got to Nelson. He now will vote for Hell-th Care!

    So much for D.O.A. predictions. Believe no Dem!

    • Ausonius

      See:

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/19/AR2009121900797_pf.html

      Posted at 9:07 E.S.T.

    • Hoosier Economist

      Did you REALLY believe that Dems wouldn’t ultimately support their own?

      Oh, and expect the RINOs in Maine to jump on the bandwagon as well. I hate to say it, but it’s the beginning of the end of Senate opposition to this bill.

      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

        Some people just get their jollies being more negative and more cynical than thou.

        But all you people are is tiresome.

        • Hoosier Economist

          Look, I wasn’t the one who hitched my wagon to a Democrat.

          What you will find “tiresome” are the taxes we all pay, courtesy of a failed strategy to target Senate Dems.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Only somebody profoundly ignorant of American politics would fail to realize that as the Democrat caucus is so near 60 votes, any strategy for defeating Obamacare would necessarily center its efforts on Democrats. It’s a more target rich environment than only trying to hold the left fringe of the Republican caucus.

          • Hoosier Economist

            Gee, I can’t imagine why conservatism is walking blind in the darkness with logic like yours.

            You placed your hopes with a sinking strategy. Senate Dems were NEVER going to oppose this bill. As is always the case, it was a shakedown all along (Remember Mary Landrieu? RedState bloggers and Sean Hannity once foolishly thought she would oppose this bill…). Dems knew Nelson’s price, and now they’re paying it…with YOUR tax dollars.

            Be VERY careful who you call ignorant. Remember, it wasn’t MY strategy that failed.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            Nothing’s failed yet.

            Why don’t you shut your trap before I ban you for willfully trying to shut down opposition to the Democrats through depression of morale?

          • AKSteveB

            They got the ball on our 20 yard line and at least we’re going to hold them to no more than a Field Goal. Trust me, nobody here has any illusions about where the Blue Dogs end up in the end, but delay is good, the American people are a whole lot less enthused about this monstrosity than they once were, and as I said previously, hopefully we get out of this with something we can get rid of later on.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            They still have to pass several more clotures in the Senate. Then they go to conference, and have to find a way to write a conference bill that passes both houses *Without more bribes thrown in*.

          • redneck_hippie

            without more bribes thrown in. WMBTI…thanks, neil, I needed to hear that.

          • SteveLA

            Neil

            So are you taking any bets that once all the “goodies” come to light that they are only going to Democrats?

            I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict that the proverbial bags containing 30 pieces of silver are going to show up in some up in the districts of some R’s too.

          • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

            The House vote is going to be all out war though, either way. Should be interesting to watch, and would probably be exciting and fun if it weren’t so important.

            I know they’ll try to hold Cao though. Democrats are at heart wimps and act like scared children when they don’t have Republican support.

            But if it’s true that the totalitarian Exchange would ban *all* coverage of abortion with a Stupak rule, then they’r egoing to have a hard time holding Cao, Stupak, and a few others.

            I don’t know if there’s enough room in the sack for al that.

      • penguin2

        Because it only gives us more incentive and the American people more anger to defeat them in the future.

        The bill still has to be reconciled with the House version and there I think remains a problem, right? No Stupak language in the Senate version, or whatever is there needs to convince 40 Representatives in the House, that it is satisfactory.

        So, hold your glee regarding how foolish conservatives (and most of America is), and do not count your chickens before they hatch, and we will do what we have been doing all along, hoping for the best, but expecting the worst.

        As Moe might put it, we always knew they had 60 Dem votes, and elections have consequences. So too, will this vote.

        • Hoosier Economist

          1994 was more than some sort of conservative realignment. It was a referrendum on Clinton’s failure to reform health care as he had promised during the 1992 campaign.

          However flawed the bill ends up being or incorrect the reasoning may be, Obama will spin the signing of this “reform” as a success and brand Republicans as obstructionists.

          Oh, and this isn’t “glee”. It’s a realistic assessment of a strategy gone wrong. Pressure was eased on moderate Dems before the House vote (particularly in my district, where Baron Hill was primed to jump ship and was allowed to escape).

          House members, unlike Senate members, have little margin for losing votes. Did anyone ever believe for a moment that Ben Nelson would NOT be reelected if he supported this monstrocity?

          The strategy was crap – and it has achieved NOTHING, just as I predicted.

          • penguin2

            I do think there are people who believe a vote would be costly for Nelson. I saw some input on that yesterday, but it is really not the point here. Do you think the Dems voting for a bill the people have indicated they do not want, is going to have no consequences?

            As far as our GOP leadership and failed strategies, that is likely to have repercussions too. I see 2010, maybe add in 2012 now, as having anti-incumbent consequences.

            So instead of, “I told you so” what do you think should happen now?
            Because that is really what one has to look at now, we work on our failures….

  • Richard Mullins

    It’s going to take some time for that to happen. It seems that he doing the same as Coburn did Wednesday. I love this. See, Mitch does have some balls after all.