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House Races in New Jersey: An Update

     There is no Governor’s race, nor is any Senate seat up for re-election.  In 2012, the seat of Robert Menendez will be available.  He is currently head of the Democrat’s Senatorial efforts and there has been criticism of his efforts by some.  His standing in the Democratic Party may be judged by his performance in this year’s Senatorial cycle.  In the interim, Republicans in New Jersey need to start recruiting a possible opponent to him in the 2012 election. 

      In order to win statewide office in New Jersey as a Republican, one has to be sufficiently moderate.  Basically, current Governor Chris Christie, despite being the current darling of the Republican Party, is sufficiently moderate.  He is not the right wing ideologue many make him to be.  Yes, he has taken on the teacher’s and public employee’s unions in Jersey, but that is based more on economic reality than some animus against the educational establishment or organized labor.  He realizes that he needs the necessary votes, support, and backing of Democrats, but not necessarily the more liberal, knee-jerk ones.  And that is the real beauty of Christie’s appeal- the fact that the he will take anyone one and sometimes with brutal truthfulness.  It would be great to see Christie take on in debate the greatest bloviator or our times- Barack Obama.  But, getting back to Christie’s moderation, one needs to go back to his campaign and see how he feels about some recent national issues.  For example, he has not exactly embraced Obamacare nor has he distanced himself from it.  The same can be said for immigration policy and notice how he avoided the lightning rod state of Arizona recently.  So, while many on the right, and especially here at Redstate, are openly endorsing Christie for national office, he is not the knee jerk conservative many make him to be.

       In Congress, there are eight Democrats and five Republicans.  That is not expected to change.  All incumbents, regardless of party, should win re-election.  But, reapportionment in the 2012 election should definitely change the dynamic especially as the population has drifted from the urban areas into traditional Republican strongholds like Ocean, Monmouth, and Burlington counties.  Additionally, due to the flight of the overall population out of Jersey, the state may actually lose a seat in Congress.  Most of the interest is in the central and southern parts of the state.  The 2nd District is represented by Frank LoBiondo and has been since 1993.  This district is rated +1 Democratic on the Cook PVI, yet LoBiondo has never, except his initial campaign, gotten less than 60% of the vote.  Part of the reason is that the Democratic Party, except in the Atlantic County part of his district, is particularly strong and they fail to develop and run viable candidates.  The same is true this year.  However, LoBiondo needs to be aware that the demographics in the district are changing as it becomes more ethnically diverse, especially with an influx of Hispanics.

     Another interesting district is the 4th, currently occupied by Republican Christopher Smith.  Although staunchly pro-life, he is considered fairly moderate and may be a decent challenger to Menendez in 2012.  Another possible candidate in 2012 could be Scott Garrett out of the 5th district.  This guy is a monetary and budget policy wonk, somewhat in the mold of Paul Ryan.  However, his staunch conservative voting record could be viewed as a liability in a state like New Jersey in runs for statewide office.

     In the Fourth District, incumbent Democrat Frank Pallone is up against Anna Little, a local TEA Party-backed Republican.  Although Pallone should win this district, largely based upon the urban vote around New Brunswick and Rutgers University, this will be viewed as a litmus test of TEA Party strength in the Garden State.  Pallone has voted for all four of Obama’s major initiatives, a fact that Anna Little is stressing, to little avail, in the district.  Finally, most eyes this Election Day will be on the Third District where first term Congressman John Adler takes on Republican challenger John Runyan.  This district stretches from the Delaware River to the Atlantic Ocean, encompassing some of the more conservative sections of Burlington County, Cherry Hill in Camden County, and a strip of Ocean County before endng and engulfing all of Long Beach Island. 

      In 2008, Adler barely beat Chris Myers for the seat despite outspending and fundraising Myers on a scale of about 7-1.  Thus far in Congress, when it comes to the top 4 Obama initiatives, he has sided with the Democrats on three of them (cap and trade, Wall Street bill, stimulus), while voting against Obamacare.  Additionally, he voted against TARP.  Many vote tracking concerns rank Adler in the Top Ten Centrist Congressmen.  This shold give the Adler the cover credentials to maintain this seat.  Runyan has only the outsider label to his favor- he is a former NHL player.  But when push comes to shove, Adler should prevail (he leads by 6 points in the polls). 

      In conclusion, yes, the election of Chris Christie should have been a wake-up call to Obama.  But let’s keep that election in perspective.  It was not a referndum on Obama like the election of Scott Brown in Massachusetts was.  The Christie victory was predicated less on a distaste for Obama’s policies than it was for an extreme distaste for Jon Corzine.  Secondly, to win statewide office in Jersey, you have to basically be a moderate.  Single-issue idealogues have no chance.  Still, there are Republicans who meet that criteria to give Menendez fits in 2012.  For Christie, it was a perfect storm of events that allowed him to defeat Corzine.  He has vindicated himself since and stands on his own now.  Third, there will no change in the Congressional delegation this year, but that could change in 2012 with reapportionment with the possible loss of a seat.  New Jersey, despite it’s Governor, remains a blue state and that is not expected to change.

COMMENTS

  • pilgrim
  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    Conservative outside of NJ have a love affair with the Guv, but (and I’ve been saying this about him for months) he is not a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. He may be the best New Jersey can offer (which says about as much as you can about the state), but he is not a pro-gun conservative:

    This is from the week before his election:

    [Money shot @ around 5:30 in the vid.]

    Watch the latest video at video.foxnews.com

    HANNITY: You’re running this campaign on fiscal responsibility.

    CHRISTIE: Yes.

    HANNITY: Are there any issues where you are, quote, moderate to left as a Republican?

    CHRISTIE: Listen, I favor some of the gun-control measures we have in New Jersey.

    HANNITY: Bad idea.

    CHRISTIE: Listen, we have a densely-populated state, and there’s a big hand gun problem in New Jersey. Now, I don’t support all the things that the governor supports by a long stretch. But I think on guns

  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    ;)

  • http://www.laborunionreport.com LaborUnionReport

    [I would love to find a way to edit comments once they've been posted!]

  • aesthete

    On abortion (“personally pro choice”), civil unions for same sex couples, illegal immigration, or gun control. He is essentially a Rudy Guiliani conservative, and I’m surprised that all those “true conservatives” out there haven’t turned on him yet.

  • pilgrim

    the budget for the state of New Jersey that he has fought to curtail the spending are conservative actions. This is where I think we have a disconnect when we describe somebody as a moderate. For some people a moderate is somebody who does not have any strong core principles that he will fight for. If that is your definition of moderate, then Christie is not a moderate. If a moderate is someone who is mute to speaking out on firearm laws, immigration laws, and policy directed at gays and pro-choice females then I Christie is a moderate.

  • http://908StraightSt.wordpress.com/ mbecker908

    I supported Rudy in 08 – in part because he had the best record on abortion reduction – mostly because he was willing to stand and fight the explosion of government.

    I would support Christie in a heartbeat over every left over 08 candidate, including and especially Palin, with the possible exception of Rudy.

    Now is the time to fight and defeat – utterly – the socialist Democrats. We can fix Roe and DOMA later. Reduce the size of government, appoint people to the judiciary who will apply “original intent” and the so-called social issues will be taken care of in due course.

  • tngal

    he’s a fiscal hawk to be sure, but def not a conservative. You could tell that he way he would answer questions about the Arizona ill/imm law. He lost a lost of respect for me there. He’s also starting to believe the hype around him.

    Then a few days ago, some idiot heckled Meg Whitman while she was trying to drum up votes. After he said a few words, he sat back down. Christie goes over and starts it up with the guy. He starts talking in his mic and when the guy goes to respond, Christie interrupts him with ” and you know what- and you know what-and you know what.”,everytime the guy tried to respond. Then Christie launches off into into people who raise their voices and yell and scream.. they are dividing this country.. Of course Christie didn’t scream, he had a microphone. And the guy wasn’t screaming he called out loudly but he wasn’t like some of the screarers we’ve seen on video.

    I’ve been guilty of questioning my legislators when they come in for town hall meetings. Christie should have let Whitman handle the guy. It was her event after all.

    Cristiet really came across as arrogant

  • Doc Holliday

    we know he is not a socon or libertarian-con. But we are not lacking those that claim those appellations. What we lack are fighters and leaders. Christie is fine where he is, doing what he is. He would not be a good presidential pick, but we only need one for that.

  • aesthete

    Curiously, some social conservatives overestimate the extent to which government, particularly at the federal level, can help them achieve their aims, and underestimate the extent to which an absence of government and original jurisprudence will allow family values through personal responsibility to flourish.

  • JSobieski

    I would still take Rudy over Christie. I think Rudy cares more (or at least talks more) of an ideological game than Christie does. Christie criticized his R primary opponent for criticizing progressive taxation. Rudy would entertain a flat tax, while Christie attacked it like a leftist would.

    Rudy is willing to embrace the label conservative in some ways that Christie is not. I think Christie is in many ways a true Reagan democrat in search of a time machine. He is doing a better job than anyone else at the moment taking on the entrenched enemies of fiscal sanity, so in that specific and important aspect, he is conducting himself in a conservative manner.

    I would take Christie over any 2008 retread. I would hate for 2012 decision to come down to Christie v. Palin because I think that would represent a “perfect storm” fissure on our side in the same way that the DE primary battle of Castle v. O’Donnell ripped us a new one not to long ago.

    Don’t get me wrong, Christia is far superior to Castle and Palin is far superior to O’Donnell, but the fissure lines would be analogous.

    It would be UGLY.

  • tngal

    My typos in the above are too numerous to mention. So I will not even try. Suffice to say, Christie upset me. Although, to be fair, he does do well against public unions.

  • aesthete

    I say this not in defense of Christie but because I know of precious few pols who are humble. (For that matter, how many successful attorneys do you know who are humble?) The ones who seem to be tend not to be very popular among “the base” (see Mitch Daniels). At any rate, I don’t see the importance of it, given that public imaging makes it impossible to be sure just what the true content of a public figure’s character really is, beyond quantitative stuff.

  • Doc Holliday
  • aesthete

    I don’t think that Christie will run, though: and so much the better. My hope is that Palin will stay out, as well, and that she’ll put her support behind a credible candidate who has done a decent job running his/her state, like Pawlenty, Johnson, Barbour, or Daniels. That would be the optimal solution for me.

  • Doc Holliday

    I was with Mbeck in ’08. Rudy did more to reduce actual abortions than most who say they are pure on the issue. The obvious reason being he gained a position where he could actually do something.

  • aesthete

    For that matter, Rudy’s far to the right (for lack of better terminology) of where I would be on the civil liberties vs law enforcement/long-term military conflict dichotomy. And of course, both are to the far left of where I’m at as far as gun control and abortion go. However, I can’t for the life of me see where a Democrat would be better on any of those issues; all of the laws prohibiting the video recording of police officers as they go about their duties are to be found in true-blue states across the East Corridor and the Midwest, and leftists are in bed with virtually every group dedicated to expanding the state. I know it is the same for conservatives, and I just don’t see how the inevitable turning against Christie on the part of “true conservatives” furthers our goals as a movement or a party.

  • Doc Holliday

    aside from some who get their conservatism solely from the pulpit, conservative thinkers such as those at RS know we need different kinds of “conservatives” in different places, at certain times. As long as Christie is fighting statists, most will support him.

    I think Rudy is strong on many issues. And I might disagree with you on law enforcement and military issues. Of course I want law enforcement on a tight leash and of course I hate nothing more than long wars that lead to nothing. But I do know we have to be active around the world militarily. As someone once said: “you might not be interested in war, but war is interested in you”. I will link to a good article on China’s agressive new navy here http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/24/AR2010092404767.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

    anyone who subscribes to a tight ideology must also be open to exceptions. An example is in stock analysis. There are two main types of stock market analysts, fundamentalists and chartists. Most fundamentalists sneer at chartists because chartists attempt to predict price movements out of past trends. They completely ignore the reality that fundamentals change and have no memory of the past. However, the fundamentalist who blindly ignores the chartists does so at his peril, because the chartists CAN move the markets, even if their beliefs are based on hocus pocus. In other words, you don’t have to believe a theory to realize if enough people do, it can come true for only that reason.

    I went off a bit there but my point was about our nations military force projection. Many libertarians believe in theory we should ignore the world and just defend out borders. But in reality, the world is made up of mostly statists here and abroad. The libertarian better understand that and realize American force projection is a requisite to libertarian society on this continent.

  • Doc Holliday

    and that I wish Rudy were president says what I think about the man.

  • aesthete

    both on chartalism and on an active military presence around the world, to an extent. In the latter case, I tend to find fault with those who seek some sort of aspirational “we are the world” foreign policy, or policy that has anything besides America’s clearly delineated self-interest at its center; articles like this one or anything written by Robert Kagan tend to get my eyes rolling, as did some of the foreign policy aims of Bush/Clinton/Blair, which tended towards idealism.

    Generally, I find the foreign policy aims of neoconservatives like Frum, Brooks, Kagan, and Bill Kristol range from idealistic fluff to laughable silliness, and in many cases, a casual disregard for American interests in favor of some multinational or democratic ideal. Then, of course, there’s this nonsense. In essence, I’m deeply anti-libertarian on border security and defense (which I think should be “offense” from time to time), but the stranglehold that pro-democracy “national greatness” idealists have had on the Bush and Clinton administrations is of some concern to me. Realism and looking out for US interests, to me, is much more in keeping with traditional broad conservative thought than defense of multinational standard-makers and ideals like human rights worldwide, which has always seemed to me more a leftist construct.

  • Doc Holliday

    or to compliment you as I got burned by doing that before lol. No, I am just messing with you guy :)

    but the article I linked was from Kagan, but I think you would appreciate it. In a way he is bashing neo conservatism. He is saying we are fighting for an impossible ideal in Afghanistan and the Chinese are going to take advantage of our blood sweat and tears.

    The last thing I am is a neo con. I am a hawk in a way, but I want our troops to do two things, kill people and break things. We should stop trying to build up what we destroy, an American idea lampooned in the movie “the mouse that roared”.

    If I ran the Iraq war, I would have had the the entire Iraqi military destroyed, killed their leaders and told them “cause any more trouble and we will do the same again”. Let them sort it out.

    I am all for freedom, but people seem to want others to go from the dark ages, skip the renaissance, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Age, Suffrage etc.

    I think this entire nation needs remedial history and Western Civilization.

    but the Chinese are smart, they don’t need our help. They need to know we are strong and will defend what we earned in the 20th century.

  • JSobieski

    Keep in mind that in the late 80s and early 90s communism was unraveling before our eyes. There were incredible public displays of joy throughout the former eastern block nations as the Soviet masters were given the boot. End of history, freedom on the march, etc. It was easy for people to get a bit carried away, and to assume that certain trends would continue on a linear line (how many bubbles have we experienced in the past 20 years?)

    National greatness “conservatives” became convinced that if the US could similarly supplant other dictatorships with a bit of nudge, that other societies would evolve in a similar manner.

    Culture matters. Societal values are not universally fungible. Eastern Europe was western looking ever since 1945 (and much of it like Poland was western looking for centuries before that).

    It was utopian thinking to conclude that other parts of the world were susceptible to such a swift and dramatic transformation. We suckered ourselves on the basis of what was temporary momentum in the favor of freedom. The world looks a heck of a lot different now, and national greatness “conservatives” should acknowledge a tremendous morning after hangover and renounce the concept.

  • aesthete
  • Doc Holliday

    people always underestimate Western Civilization. Hell, in school they say lesbian, native, communist, berry pickers are equal to or better than Captain Cook, Michelangelo, or George Washington.

  • aesthete

    in that they have, IMO, been over-inflated into a world power by sensationalist journalism and their own actions trading off long-term prospects for short-term benefits. They’ve also been propped up rhetorically by a fair number of leftists and third-world regimes seeking to “prove” an alternative to liberal democracy as far as improving outcomes. China’s “authoritarian capitalism” seems to fit this bill, and those types will seize on any opportunity to justify their own authoritarianism. They are, no doubt, a strong regional power that is somewhat antagonistic to our interests. However, we have plenty of regional powers that serve as appropriate balancers, such as Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Taiwan (other, formerly neutral countries in the region like Vietnam and Laos are now more on the anti-China side): if we ever pushed Japan to untether itself from its constitutionally-mandated pacifism, that alone would be enough to make our regional allies without us more than the match of China militarily.

    Many commenters also tend to forget the many missteps and internal problems that China has: as an example, its one-family, one-child family will be absolutely disastrous in the future, as young males find themselves in a society with very few marriageable prospects, and dissident minority groups that have been a thorn in China’s side who ignore the rule find themselves a larger part of the population. My prediction: there will be a regional war at some point in the medium term.

    Agreed on the unrealistic standard that we’ve set vis a vis Afghanistan.

  • blooch

    “I am all for freedom, but people seem to want others to go from the dark ages, skip the renaissance, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Age, Suffrage etc.”

    Isn’t it peculiar that these seem to be the same people who counsel that we need to wait for Islam to sort itself out like Christianity did?

    “One thing the Chinese don

  • acat

    What do you do with tens of thousands of young men with no prospects?

    Supplant the men of the dissident minority groups, for one thing. A minority bride may be better than no bride, after all.

    Beef up the military and go adventuring – and offer the survivors the right of foreign brides. Use the Chinese armed forces to do “security” (satrap-style) for resource gathering operations (mining in Afghanistan, oil in Africa, etc. etc.) – a young man with disposable income and available women may be happy enough to not return home….

    Just sayin’

    Mew

  • Doc Holliday

    grew, innovated, and adapted without much influence from Western Civilization. While the West “invented” so many things, the Chinese invented them too but they did it behind a great wall, cut off from others. Our influence was greater, so our accomplishment was greater. But we can not compare the Chinese to say, the Middle East.

    the other issue is the Chinese coffers are full of our money because we basically outsourced most of our industry to them. they are net savers, we are net buyers. they have unlimited funds to play with. They are slowly building a blue water navy to increase their world reach. They have people all over the Middle East, Africa, and South America getting control of as many resources as possible.

    One thing the Chinese don’t care about that the Russians did was international acclaim. They don’t live by our 24 hour news cycle. They don’t care if it takes 200 years, unlike Americans who focus on the next election, and Russians who always have 5 year plan, the Chinese are working towards a truly long- term goal.

  • aesthete

    If anything, the Chinese government is capricious and arbitrary, while having learned from the Asian Tigers that they have to keep some basic stability so that they can attract business. Case in point: China’s pro-urbanization policy (designed to make it easier to rule over their subjects) recently led to the Chinese adopting policies very similar to those that we pursued in the housing crisis, but to a much greater extent. Now that the bubble has popped, China has been even more adversely affected than we have been by the housing crisis, which is one reason that they have been relatively silent in this recession. China’s saving grace is not that they are patient, it is that they have about 900 million Han Chinese who are generally hard-working and industrious who have no alternative but to hope that the Chinese government doesn’t screw up too badly. They aren’t even close to being able to play in the big leagues, and medium- and long- term prospects aren’t favorable.

    As to their holding of our securities, outsourced jobs, etc, an old adage puts the mind at ease: if you owe $100,000 to the bank, the bank owns you. If you owe $100,000,000 to the bank, you own the bank. Just like any business, China needs to please its largest customer, not the other way around: if the worst comes to pass, we can always outsource our production to other third-world countries in Latin America and Africa. Will it hurt us? Yes, but not nearly as much as it would hurt China. There are a number of actions that China has been forced to take precisely because of this dynamic, and politically, it would be far less politically unpopular for us to unilaterally stop trade than for them to do so. We’re holding them by their short hairs, not the other way around: problem is, our biggest opinion-makers, pundits, etc either don’t know it, or are too desperate for hard copy to report it in any truthful manner. China is a regional concern, but in no way is it a rising or current world power in anything but the fevered minds of various newspaper editors.

    Never forget that China’s best-laid plans were laid to waste by something as insignificant as opium.

  • Doc Holliday

    I am well aware of the argument that we have the fiscal upper hand on the Chinese. Some monetary theorists put it this way. We gave the Chinese paper and they gave us good and sweat. We see today that the paper we gave (the USD) is losing value. So we are hosing them in a way.

    But none of this changes what I said. The Chinese are flush with cash and are using it to grow their military at rates we could only dream of. Also, they have teams all over the globe gaining control of natural resources like crazy. The Chinese overseers in Africa have been compared to slave masters by those in the know.

    I know that China overshot its housing building. But they still have a growth rate that puts our anemic growth to shame. there will be fits and starts for sure, but make no mistake, China has the structural ability to outgrow us for a long time to come.

    If the US is going to keep its strategic dominance over the the South China sea, we must turn our economy around and forget about the peace dividend. What the Chinese see is a nation in two wars with little support. Hell, they could go after Taiwan tomorrow and Obama would do nothing, and even if he did, it would not matter. Would we go to nuclear war for Taiwan? Is Japan and its civil defense force going to stop Red China? Hell, we won’t even put up a missile defense because we don’t want to anger the Russians.

  • JSobieski

    (1) Our economies are linked to such a degree that a direct military threat seems unlikely. The prosperity of our nations are linked in a way and to a degree that makes direct war difficult to contemplate. I wonder what European trade was like in the 1930s. Can’t imagine it comes anywhere close to the 2010 US-China relationship.

    (2) The Chinese currently view themselves as weaker than us, but on the asendancy, with the US strong, but on the decline. What the impact will be if/when they ever perceive that they are the stronger is something I would want to avoid.

    (3) China can and does hurt us in indirect ways. They sell weaponry to regimes that we might need to fight. China (like the Russians) can go to a country like Iran, and sell them sufficient technologies that our military then faces real risks. Their technology is still behind ours, but for example, there would have been far more aircraft shot down if Iraq had had modern Chinese anti-aircraft missiles.

    We need a huge tech advantage to make a mission as risk free as possible. and China can always close that gap. In fact the Russians and Chinese now have an incentive to do so, in part because they compete with each other.

  • Doc Holliday

    they just have to be strong enough to focus their efforts in their area of the globe, ie the South China Sea. This region alone is one of the major international trade routes. The Chinese can say it is in their “area of influence” although the areas affects all world trade. We on the other hand have to focus on all the points of the globe, they do not to make a major change in the balance of power.

  • aesthete

    during the Great Depression. Tariffs and protectionism were all the rage at the time.

    Without dramatic changes on the foreign and domestic front, the idea that China will ever be our equal, much less our better, on the international stage is one that is laughable. The US is on the decline, but so are virtually all of the other countries in the world, due to the recession. Certainly, China can be bothersome (i.e, selling weapons to hostile regimes, using soft power to get other countries to oppose us, etc.) but that is all that they can aspire to without starting a war in their part of the world (which would undoubtedly hurt them more than us). There will, IMO, be a significant conflict in SE Asia in the future, due to bad decisions on the part of Chinese leadership, but China is not a threat to the extent that the punditocracy is making it out to be.

  • aesthete

    Much in the same way that adolescents and children grow much faster than adults, so too is China growing faster than the US because it has not yet developed its economy to the point that the US has. Not all of the “obvious” developments have been taken advantage of in China, and its economy is still pathetic compared to the US. It has an army that is even worse than its economy: for one thing, its funding as both an absolute number and percentage of its own GDP is piddling compared to the US’, and that’s without counting the more difficult to quantify aspects such as training, allies and support, bases and mobility, logistics, etc., all of which the US crushes China on. As I said before, if we convinced Japan that the threat was great enough, they and the regional powers could give China quite the whipping. (Japan was recently the 2nd-largest world economy behind us, and with our training its military could give China’s a stout fight. Given that there were recently some attempts to get the Japanese constitution amended on that point, it isn’t quite an impossibility.)

    I agree that we should keep an eye on China and its expansion into Africa and Latin America, but that seems more of an issue of intelligence and various forms of soft power (free trade deals count as a nice form of soft power that befits our classically liberal roots) than a military one.

  • Doc Holliday

    I am not comparing China’s military might to ours. We deluded ourselves into believing a Soviet tank, ICBM, or division was even in the same realm as ours. Our advantage for decades has been in technology, and that has only exponentially increased. But as I said before the Chinese don’t think the way we do, they don’t have the same obligations we do.

    Do you think we could ever take over and hold mainland China? I don’t think so. could the Chinese ever take even a piece of the USA? They would not even get within 500 miles. But the point is they ARE building a blue water navy, something they have never had before. They are spending billions on OFFENSE, and they want to be able to take Taiwan and confront us in the South China Sea.

    You mention Japan, but they have little in the way of a military, hell we made them sign treaties to make that happen. Over decades, we and they have beaten the martial heritage out of the Japanese. Yes the Japan has the world’s second largest economy. But so what? The Germans have the third largest, does anyone fear their military might? Hell, the Italians have a more formidable army, not to mention the French and British.

    We better watch the Chinese, and we better watch them good, They are not “over-inflated” as you say, they are a strategic threat. Hell they could level Japan tomorrow if they had a death wish. But that is not what they want, they want a larger sphere of influence just like the Russians. But the Russians are a dying breed. The Chinese could change their one baby policy any day, but they won’t choose any day, they will choose the day the think it is in their best interest.

    I am all for freedom, but the Chinese have an advantage that they don’t worry about courts, unions, etc. Many American politicos thought if we just got close to the Indians we would offset the Chinese. But now everyone sees that India is emasculated by its own institutions. In India, even the homeless have unions and they have representation in parliament. And I don’t mean some token thing, I mean major representation. India, for all its potential, is becoming just another benign socialist state where no major national goals are achieved.

    Like I said, the Chinese don’t work on our time frame, if they have to wait 200 years that is nothing to them, read their history. It is not the Chinese that need a wake up call, it is we.

  • JSobieski

    All they need to do is have sufficient technology to result in downed planes or worse, shoot down satellites.

    Our entire approach presumes instantaneous dominance of the air. Anything that slows that down, or calls it into question is a problem for us.

  • JSobieski

    China is strong enough to sell arms to states which do propose problems (particularly Iran). The technology gap is shrinking—and they don’t have to catch up to essentially neutralize us. They just have to get to a point where its not trivial.

  • Doc Holliday

    that is what we are good at. They only have to steal it, that is what the are good at.

    this is more to Aesthete than to you, but if China wanted to throw the entire world into chaos tomorrow, they could. If North Korea had what the Chinese have, the world would be a dark, dark place. But the Chinese have a plan, they don’t want to destroy the world, they want t dominate it. They have no pretensions to set off a cataclysm. But yes, if they could cause us grief through surrogates, why the hell not?

  • aesthete

    To which training, logistics, and coordination between services plays a role, the extent to which we’re currently ahead of China, and the massive amount of resources, allies, etc we could bring to bear if we were threatened by China (or even the dreaded China+Russia+Iran+Norks combo). They are behind in their tech, but they’re even more behind in those things I just mentioned. They won’t even give the Norks any tech, much less train with them (and who could blame them?). Iran is not in a place where it can project force credibly. So it’s basically China against the world in that scenario. Does that mean we just sit tight behind our Maginot Wall? Far from it: it simply means that acquiring intel is both more cost-effective and savvy, given that we are looking for long term directional trends to counter, not short-term threats. It also helps wrt knowing what their short term regional interests are.