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	<title>Comments on: Why Stifle Employers from Offering Raises?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 03:38:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: adair</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9817</link>
		<dc:creator>adair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9817</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to a male union employee, would he not leave himself open to a lawsuit under the Fair, Equal Pay for Females Regardless of Whether They Really Are Doing the Same Job Act?

Right to Work might be the better solution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to a male union employee, would he not leave himself open to a lawsuit under the Fair, Equal Pay for Females Regardless of Whether They Really Are Doing the Same Job Act?</p>
<p>Right to Work might be the better solution.</p>
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		<title>By: MF</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9802</link>
		<dc:creator>MF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to search (on your own time, of course) for another job where you will be appropriately rewarded?  That&#039;s where the free market kicks in.  I will agree that it&#039;s not the easiest thing in the world to find that new job, but the point is that if your employer also knows this and knows that you are unhappy and not willing to be taken advantage of, that might cause him to treat you fairly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to search (on your own time, of course) for another job where you will be appropriately rewarded?  That&#8217;s where the free market kicks in.  I will agree that it&#8217;s not the easiest thing in the world to find that new job, but the point is that if your employer also knows this and knows that you are unhappy and not willing to be taken advantage of, that might cause him to treat you fairly.</p>
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		<title>By: cbartlett</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9801</link>
		<dc:creator>cbartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The basic principle of conservatism is to make sure the country offers the liberty of equal OPPORTUNITY and allow the free-market system to determine the outcome according to the amount of hard work, education, training and skills involved.  Liberals (Democrats), on the other hand, believe in equal OUTCOMES and want the government to provide whatever re-distribution of wealth or resources it takes to provide that equal outcome for everyone.  Almost every political/economical issue today eventually boils down to taking sides on that very simple concept.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The basic principle of conservatism is to make sure the country offers the liberty of equal OPPORTUNITY and allow the free-market system to determine the outcome according to the amount of hard work, education, training and skills involved.  Liberals (Democrats), on the other hand, believe in equal OUTCOMES and want the government to provide whatever re-distribution of wealth or resources it takes to provide that equal outcome for everyone.  Almost every political/economical issue today eventually boils down to taking sides on that very simple concept.</p>
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		<title>By: somethoughtsonfreedom</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9800</link>
		<dc:creator>somethoughtsonfreedom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9800</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just homeschool and make sure our children aren&#039;t brainwashed zombies that are produced by our overly liberal education system/liberal voter development union.

If only you could stop paying the property taxes to support the crappy schools you wont be using when you make such a decision.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just homeschool and make sure our children aren&#8217;t brainwashed zombies that are produced by our overly liberal education system/liberal voter development union.</p>
<p>If only you could stop paying the property taxes to support the crappy schools you wont be using when you make such a decision.</p>
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		<title>By: tnfriendofcoal101368</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9797</link>
		<dc:creator>tnfriendofcoal101368</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d say if we had a public voucher system where parents could select schools for their kids and schools received money based on enrollment, that this would also have a great affect on teacher pay as schools would have to compete for the best teachers. This is the same free market job competition that allows Mrs. Tnfriend and I to live in that nice suburb.  It would also perhaps provide incentive for good teachers to stay in the profession and for good candidates to choose teaching as a career.  Unions are for the most point a drag on the market that seek to even out wages and benefits instead of rewarding excellence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say if we had a public voucher system where parents could select schools for their kids and schools received money based on enrollment, that this would also have a great affect on teacher pay as schools would have to compete for the best teachers. This is the same free market job competition that allows Mrs. Tnfriend and I to live in that nice suburb.  It would also perhaps provide incentive for good teachers to stay in the profession and for good candidates to choose teaching as a career.  Unions are for the most point a drag on the market that seek to even out wages and benefits instead of rewarding excellence.</p>
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		<title>By: acat</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9796</link>
		<dc:creator>acat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clearly, quite a few union members decided that they trust their local school boards to deal honestly, eh?

Mew]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly, quite a few union members decided that they trust their local school boards to deal honestly, eh?</p>
<p>Mew</p>
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		<title>By: tnfriendofcoal101368</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9795</link>
		<dc:creator>tnfriendofcoal101368</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9795</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That when Walker gave the members of the public unions the chance to leave, in large number they chose to &quot;protect&quot; their paychecks from union dues over whatever &quot;protection&quot; the union provided.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That when Walker gave the members of the public unions the chance to leave, in large number they chose to &#8220;protect&#8221; their paychecks from union dues over whatever &#8220;protection&#8221; the union provided.</p>
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		<title>By: commonsenseobserver</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9793</link>
		<dc:creator>commonsenseobserver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To pass right-to-work without the RAISE Act.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To pass right-to-work without the RAISE Act.</p>
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		<title>By: acat</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9792</link>
		<dc:creator>acat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9792</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[specifically &quot;trade guilds&quot; that became &quot;trade unions&quot; helped protect their members, in part by restricting the number of members (apprentices, journeymen, masters) to keep prices elevated.

The &quot;protection&quot; argument simply does not apply to either the unskilled labor unions nor the government-bureaucrat unions.  

The unskilled labor unions were set up by the leaders of the anarchist movement in Chicago in the 1800s as a way to gain muscle for physical intimidation and to pool votes for political intimidation.

Outside of the &quot;government trade unions&quot;, i.e. cops, firefighters, EMTs, all other government employee unions exist for similar reasons to the unskilled labor unions.

&quot;Protection&quot; is at best a side-effect.

Mew]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>specifically &#8220;trade guilds&#8221; that became &#8220;trade unions&#8221; helped protect their members, in part by restricting the number of members (apprentices, journeymen, masters) to keep prices elevated.</p>
<p>The &#8220;protection&#8221; argument simply does not apply to either the unskilled labor unions nor the government-bureaucrat unions.  </p>
<p>The unskilled labor unions were set up by the leaders of the anarchist movement in Chicago in the 1800s as a way to gain muscle for physical intimidation and to pool votes for political intimidation.</p>
<p>Outside of the &#8220;government trade unions&#8221;, i.e. cops, firefighters, EMTs, all other government employee unions exist for similar reasons to the unskilled labor unions.</p>
<p>&#8220;Protection&#8221; is at best a side-effect.</p>
<p>Mew</p>
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		<title>By: lakeworthcane</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9791</link>
		<dc:creator>lakeworthcane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[People don&#039;t understand what &quot;free-market,&quot; or &quot;capitalist,&quot; economic system means.

It means the nation&#039;s means of goods and services production is privately owned. It doesn&#039;t mean people are greedy.

This private ownership confers upon the owners a responsibility to operate the labor marketplace fairly which, of course, means more pay for more work. If they don&#039;t give more pay for more work, they open the doors for people like Obama to come in and exploit the unfairness.

Like Mr. Horowitz wrote, this is the cornerstone of the free-market system: pay that is comprehensive of the work done. People who do more work have to get more pay. That&#039;s the mechanism by which the free-market system creates higher achievement. That&#039;s what makes the free-market system superior to publicly-, or &quot;government&quot;-, owned systems.

The free-market system must be allowed to reward superior work performance because that&#039;s why people come to American: so they can work hard and be rewarded appropriately.

This is a complex issue because lots of people want to be rewarded even when they don&#039;t work hard and, unfortunately, this is an almost immediate result of union protection: worker abuse.

The free-market system is simple: higher pay for better work. It&#039;s human beings who make it complex. Workers try to get higher pay even when they don&#039;t do better work, and company owners--the hallowed &quot;job creators&quot;--often do not provide higher pay for better work; they expect people to do extra work for free (which is the situation at my employer).

It&#039;s this simple: people work for money. People who do more work get more money, and people who do less work get less money. Any variation from that is a violation of and an abuse of the free-market system.

But--again--the free-market system isn&#039;t about greed. It simply means that the nation&#039;s goods and services production are held by private, and not public (&quot;government&quot;), owners. This confers upon the private owners a responsibility to fairly distribute the results of the nation&#039;s productivity (profits). If they don&#039;t, they create an imbalance: unhappy workers. This opens the door for people like Obama, who don&#039;t necessarily want to rectify the situation, but who certainly see an opportunity to exploit dissatisfied people by making all kinds of promises to them about &quot;wealth redistribution&quot;--promises they don&#039;t intend to keep--so they can assume power and control.

This has happened many times throughout history. Those who promise &quot;wealth redistribution,&quot; like Obama, have no intention of fairly redistributing wealth. It&#039;s a lie. But it&#039;s worked many times as a means for despots to basically &quot;steal&quot; ownership of a nation, and it comes from private owners who aren&#039;t smart enough to simply offer pay equal to the work done.

My immediate is about to do it to me today; I can see it coming. He&#039;s going to expect me to put in a 20-hour day without a nickel of extra pay. This isn&#039;t exactly what Horowitz is talking about, but it&#039;s part of the same argument. If I work harder and do better work, I should get extra pay. That&#039;s the free-market system&#039;s fundamental rule and, as Horowitz asks, why would anybody not want to observe it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People don&#8217;t understand what &#8220;free-market,&#8221; or &#8220;capitalist,&#8221; economic system means.</p>
<p>It means the nation&#8217;s means of goods and services production is privately owned. It doesn&#8217;t mean people are greedy.</p>
<p>This private ownership confers upon the owners a responsibility to operate the labor marketplace fairly which, of course, means more pay for more work. If they don&#8217;t give more pay for more work, they open the doors for people like Obama to come in and exploit the unfairness.</p>
<p>Like Mr. Horowitz wrote, this is the cornerstone of the free-market system: pay that is comprehensive of the work done. People who do more work have to get more pay. That&#8217;s the mechanism by which the free-market system creates higher achievement. That&#8217;s what makes the free-market system superior to publicly-, or &#8220;government&#8221;-, owned systems.</p>
<p>The free-market system must be allowed to reward superior work performance because that&#8217;s why people come to American: so they can work hard and be rewarded appropriately.</p>
<p>This is a complex issue because lots of people want to be rewarded even when they don&#8217;t work hard and, unfortunately, this is an almost immediate result of union protection: worker abuse.</p>
<p>The free-market system is simple: higher pay for better work. It&#8217;s human beings who make it complex. Workers try to get higher pay even when they don&#8217;t do better work, and company owners&#8211;the hallowed &#8220;job creators&#8221;&#8211;often do not provide higher pay for better work; they expect people to do extra work for free (which is the situation at my employer).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s this simple: people work for money. People who do more work get more money, and people who do less work get less money. Any variation from that is a violation of and an abuse of the free-market system.</p>
<p>But&#8211;again&#8211;the free-market system isn&#8217;t about greed. It simply means that the nation&#8217;s goods and services production are held by private, and not public (&#8220;government&#8221;), owners. This confers upon the private owners a responsibility to fairly distribute the results of the nation&#8217;s productivity (profits). If they don&#8217;t, they create an imbalance: unhappy workers. This opens the door for people like Obama, who don&#8217;t necessarily want to rectify the situation, but who certainly see an opportunity to exploit dissatisfied people by making all kinds of promises to them about &#8220;wealth redistribution&#8221;&#8211;promises they don&#8217;t intend to keep&#8211;so they can assume power and control.</p>
<p>This has happened many times throughout history. Those who promise &#8220;wealth redistribution,&#8221; like Obama, have no intention of fairly redistributing wealth. It&#8217;s a lie. But it&#8217;s worked many times as a means for despots to basically &#8220;steal&#8221; ownership of a nation, and it comes from private owners who aren&#8217;t smart enough to simply offer pay equal to the work done.</p>
<p>My immediate is about to do it to me today; I can see it coming. He&#8217;s going to expect me to put in a 20-hour day without a nickel of extra pay. This isn&#8217;t exactly what Horowitz is talking about, but it&#8217;s part of the same argument. If I work harder and do better work, I should get extra pay. That&#8217;s the free-market system&#8217;s fundamental rule and, as Horowitz asks, why would anybody not want to observe it?</p>
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		<title>By: thx1138v2</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9790</link>
		<dc:creator>thx1138v2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There was a time when unions protected employees from abusive employers. From who are the government employees being protected? What is the justification for government employee unions?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a time when unions protected employees from abusive employers. From who are the government employees being protected? What is the justification for government employee unions?</p>
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		<title>By: tntech</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9789</link>
		<dc:creator>tntech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If we pass the raise act we place the government in the role of bargaining private sector union contracts. Who would enforce this legislation?  Probably the NLRB. It is much more important to pass a national right to work law that outlaws mandatory payroll deduction of union dues. No legislation will have much effect on the unions until employees have a real choice of membership. While the raise act sounds good it will have no effect on the unions so long as their members are forced to pay dues just to have a job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we pass the raise act we place the government in the role of bargaining private sector union contracts. Who would enforce this legislation?  Probably the NLRB. It is much more important to pass a national right to work law that outlaws mandatory payroll deduction of union dues. No legislation will have much effect on the unions until employees have a real choice of membership. While the raise act sounds good it will have no effect on the unions so long as their members are forced to pay dues just to have a job.</p>
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		<title>By: drfredc</title>
		<link>http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2012/06/12/why-stifle-employers-from-offering-raises/#comment-9783</link>
		<dc:creator>drfredc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/?p=3801#comment-9783</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Much of our (and the worlds) economic woes have been engineered by Unioncrats creating a false reality outside of market forces.  Merit pay is one aspect of this.  Defined contribution pensions are another.  Both promote long term negative distortions in normal market forces with all sorts of bad outcomes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of our (and the worlds) economic woes have been engineered by Unioncrats creating a false reality outside of market forces.  Merit pay is one aspect of this.  Defined contribution pensions are another.  Both promote long term negative distortions in normal market forces with all sorts of bad outcomes.</p>
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