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  • Gmac

    to equate the celebration of the deaths of thousands of innocents by Palestinians on 9/1/01 with the American celebration of the death of the beast that perpetrated the attack?

    If that’s what he’s implying then he can think about this: There’s one less mass murderer around with OBL’s death and I haven’t stopped celebrating that fact yet.

  • khayos

    … is really in poor taste. The former relished in the death of innocents, the latter in the justice of ending a murderer.

  • http://www.scragged.com petrarch

    Just stick a picture of Gen. Eisenhower’s ticker-tape parade in NYC after WWII, next to a photo of Hitler parading back from the Anschluss (takeover of Austria) or conquest of France. The photos look pretty much the same!

    But the underlying truth of what’s going on is about as different as it’s possible to be. One group is celebrating a victory for freedom and justice; the other is celebrating a victory for oppression and barbarism.

    And the same is true of the two images in this cartoon. Submit it to the WaPo or NYT and I bet you’ll get a hefty fee.

  • http://www.sunshinestatesarah.com SunshineStateSarah

    I don’t expect to agree 100% with 100% of the opinions and comments posted here at RedState, but this cartoon is almost beyond words.

    Calling the students who spontaneously gathered outside the White House to sing patriotic songs “Animals” is bad enough, but the blatant moral relativism here is horrifically offensive.

    Darn it, TobyToons. Normally I really like your work. But if I saw you in person today, I’d have to bite my tongue not to curse at you.

    “Impossible to tell which was which?” Hey, I’ll make it easy for you:

    The people you draw on the left were cheering the death of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

    The people you draw on the right were cheering our military for bringing to justice one man who had masterminded the murder of thousands of innocent people worldwide.

  • oldbird77

    I understand those who want to criticize Americans for celebrating the death of Osama bin Laden, but I think it’s off-base. We didn’t go into Afghanistan because our war was with the Taliban and we wanted to strike their horrid regime from the earth and provide a better life and a modern nation state for the people of that country. Great if it were to happen, but that’s some massive mission creep. We went in because the government of Afghanistan wouldn’t turn over bin Laden. Killing bin Laden is our VE/VJ day. sure it doesn’t have the clarity of unconditional surrender, but it’s been a war and now a victory that we are stuck with. A week ago I was very uncomfortable with what withdrawing from Afghanistan meant for our country. Now, not so much. And, I think that’s worth celebrating.

  • blooch

    Ok, dial it back, kids…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exzXa2Y_W_Q

  • jaykali

    So celebrating the death of 3,000 innocents = celebrating the death of the leader of the most deadly terrorist organization in the world, the one responsible for 3,000 innocent deaths. Interesting…P.C. will be the death of us all

  • streiff

    you’ll see the cartoon is comparing the left which celebrated America’s comeuppance after 9/11 (a la Ward Churchill’s “chickens coming home to roost” statement) with the same left who are suddenly celebrating bin Laden’s death.

    • http://tabithahale.com Tabitha Hale

      I actually had to do a double take as well on this one. You explained it well.

      • http://impudent.edublogs.org/ kyle8

        I think it completely failed.

    • http://www.sunshinestatesarah.com SunshineStateSarah

      I don’t think the picture on the left is the *American left* – look at the flag and clothing. No, it’s supposed to represent the Palestinians and other people in the Middle East who cheered our pain on 9/11.

      This cartoon is NOT making a point about liberal hypocrisy.

      • WarEagle01

        So I’m going with streiff’s take. It is a lttle confusing though.

    • blooch

      Not that I disagree with your take, but the the quote, when combined with the imagery and symbolism of the cartoon seems to show what the preponderance of commenters are seeing here. Your explanation is more in line with the views of the Toby I know. Glad to hear it was just ambiguous messaging of a point which is difficult to make in a two panel cartoon.

    • oldbird77

      then it was poorly executed. . . and according to Toby Toons explanation below, not his intent.

    • littlehouse18

      That sure looks like Obama in the middle, though I doubt he cheered 9-11.

      However, the cartoon is extremely ambiguous and so easily construed to be something else that I think it is in poor taste.

      • littlehouse18

        I see what TT says below and I disagree with his comparison.

        While I did not feel celebratory in the same way, I understand and accept it. I am glad that wicked man finally faced justice and some closure attained. But not joyful – the war goes on and the memory of 9-11 remains grim ….

  • mississippian

    This cartoon should be over on Kos. Not here. I’ve always been lukewarm about TobyToons cartoons, but this is down right tar-and-featherable. Perhaps it’s time we found a better cartoonist, or at least remove this fellow from the front page for awhile.

    • blooch

      Toby does some great work, and nothing I have seen from him in the past has been objectionable, tasteless or contrary to the rules of this site. Some subjects just lend themselves better to cartooning than others.

      There are not many prominient cartoonists on the right, so let’s showcase the one we’ve got, Hang fire.

  • johnt

    caricatured of course, but then O is a caricature. Could be wrong, a bow to Strieff for prompting a 2nd look. Sadly, and whatever the case, there is some faux disgust at the celebrations, the ashamed to be American stuff. I understand the pig Joy Behar dropped a load on the View, there will be more coming. Unless the Times puts a stop to it, the Mt Olympus effect.

    • ultraconservative

      I immediately took the center figure to the The One. I think the cartoon is supposed to “highlight” Obama’s opportunist tendencies as they relate to popular sentiment on the far left.

      • ultraconservative

        After seeing Toby’s explanation below, it seems I was wrong.

  • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

    …to me that the moral relativist position would be to find a way to PUBLICLY celebrate the death of someone. We celebrated the ENDING of WWII, not the day of Hitler’s death. Those street partiers made us (Americans) look like the Middle East because that is how they react to death and assassinations. I’m as happy as anyone that OBL is finished, but I’m not going to have a street party over it.

    • oldbird77

      I think you are wrong. We aren’t going to get an unconditional surrender and a USS Missouri moment out of this war under these rules of engagement and our own sense of morality (perhaps misguided). This is what we went to Afghanistan to do. Not to enforce gender equality or build roads or even topple the Taliban. Now that we’ve done what we set out to do, lets try to extract ourselves responsibly.

    • donnybrooke
    • johnt

      to make us, less yourself of course, look like the Middle East. Try machine gunning for example. The equation of these celebrants with islamists who regard jihad as a religious duty, who danced on 9/11 after the mass murder of innocents is a stretch of feverish proportions. Get some rest.
      P S It will be a while before this war ends, if ever. So a little exuberance might be forgiven.

    • Gmac

      its a cheap shot that is in poor taste to use moral equivalency to portray the Palestinian celebration of the death of thousands of innocents as the same as the celebration of the death of a mass murderer.

      Bad form, poor choice.

      FWIW: I did not roll out in the street and run off a mag or two, blow up anything, shoot fireworks or shout and sing praises. I did pop out the Crown and toasted the men that removed OBL.

      • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

        My point in the cartoon was that the way people should’ve celebrated was privately (like you did), not publicy like they did in front of the White House.

        And, again, on the whole toic of moral relativism, it seems like moral relativism to me to say in one breath…

        “Look at those animals in the Middle-East, celebrating because Americans were killed”

        … then to turn around and celebrate (and look just like them) when we kill OBL.

        I’m thinking that most people thought I was saying we shouldn’t be glad about terminating OBL – that wasn’t my point at all. Be glad, let’s just not look like them when we are glad.

        The other reason I chose to do this cartoon was because I could see, FROM DAY ONE, that it was being spun as an election tool for Obama. The first person I saw interviewed on TV was talking about how he saw young and old, black and white, Democrat and Republican arm in arm celebrating in front of the WH.

        That is total BS and was the beginning of the spin.

        I’m proud of the military, and proud of the country for getting rid of this , OBL. I just think we could have handled ourselves differently when being thankful for it happening.

        • catt

          “it seems like moral relativism to me to say in one breath

        • blooch

          I find it interesting that there was no lecture from the Obama administration about how celebrating OBL’s death would be provocative and inflammatory to Muslims. If there was such a request, I missed it. Of course, that would be tantamount to saying that Muslims supported, or at least agreed with, OBL, which is exactly the opposite of what Obama said in his speech Sunday. Still, one would expect from the WH a call for restraint on grounds of decorum in service of diplomacy alone.

          Instead, Obama seems to see the mob of mostly young people as his crowd-surf back to the WH, and he has taken a stage dive with gusto. And you’re right about the “unity” BS; look how easily Rush duped the MSM on Monday. They fell all over themselves trying to shoehorn him into their Unity Fold.

          That said, it was a bit provocative to lump those who have no problem with a little OBL Wake into the same category as benighted SW Asians behaving badly on TV. I saw no Al Qaeda flags burning, no Korans burning, no giant Osama or Mohammed effigies burning, no celebratory gunfire deaths and no looting or other mayhem. I think one could make a case for the existence of nuance in Death Partying.

          Me I’m just happy that so many people, especially young ones, still cared or knew enough to show up.

          • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

            You are correct, there were no flag burnings, koran burnings etc. I saw it more simply as celebrating death.

            So, I guess in that sense, it was provocative to compare the two, but there is just something that gnawed at me when I saw it on TV… it just looked/seemed/felt wrong.

            Maybe I’m just not the celebratory type, or maybe I’m just getting too old and crotchety, but the way I see it, yes, we did the job that needed to be done, we were justified in doing that job, but let’s move on and take out as many more of them as we can (and do it without public celebrations).

          • blooch

            I’m getting old, and I don’t like crowds very much, don’t tolerate them as well as I did in days gone by. Crowds are mainly a milieu of young people and are redolent of the immaturity, spontaneity and unpredictability of youth. I’m at an age now where the salient features of almost any crowd are noise and inconvenience, but it wasn’t always that way.

            When I was a sophomore in college, Iran took hostages, and we took to the streets. Our mob did have burning effigies, flags and korans, and we actually menaced a foreign student dormitory which was home to many Iranian students. I’m not proud of it now, but that was the zeitgeist then, and it causes me to be more sanguine about the celebratory mobs we witnessed this week. At least they were largely happy mobs with something to celebrate, even if it was the demise of a hated enemy. All we had was impotent rage with a topping of Desert One. I thank God that Obama, who is so adept at finding his inner Carter, was blessed with success in this errand of death.

            There probably won’t be anything in our lifetimes like this again in the War on Terror. We’re back to the numbing grind of incremental wins and losses in dirty third world hellholes, wary vigilance for those who seek to rival Osama and pushback against those who would have us rot from within. So I’m willing to let the kids play a little today as long as they save their strength for tomorrow.

            Ding dong, the Witch is dead, and I’m going to bed.

    • littlehouse18

      She says as a little girl she carried around a figure of Tojo’s head on a stick during street celebrations.

  • Ann_W

    Don’t care what anyone else says, that is worth celebrating. I’ll register my vote against moral relativism.

    • http://www.twitter.com/AWG9_yoyo yoyo

      Justice is Blind holding the Weights and Measures.

      However, in this case, Justice wore Night-Vision Goggles and carried an Assault Rifle. Good on them.

      This is worth celebrating, and I will. As an American. As an 11 yr US Navy veteran. As a father to three young children.

      I no longer have to worry about THAT BEAST trying to kill them.

      • Ann_W

        If only the US military could be everywhere to stand between evil and the innocents. When I think about those poor people in the towers…

        Give your kids a squeeze for me, they grow up super fast!!

  • bcochran1981

    ..of Toby’s. I’ve consistently enjoyed his cartoons and reposted the images to my friends online. I even participated in, and won, the very first weekend caption contest awhile back.

    But this is disgusting. To not only equate those students with those celebrating the attack on 9/11, but to outright call them animals? Totally beyond anything called for. Even if you believe that the response to OBL’s death should’ve been more muted, Toby’s cartoon is highly offensive.

    I believe in divergent opinions. I believe in honest and open debate. RS is a great place for that. But, IMO, the kind of garbage that Toby posted has absolutely no place here.

    • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

      …if you have a problem with somebody having a problem with the way that we’re celebrating double-tapping that SOB bin Laden.

      By which you can safely assume that while I am fine with celebrating double-tapping that SOB, I still recognize that it’s not very Christian and/or civilized of me to do so.

      • bcochran1981

        …as I said, if someone has a problem with people’s exuberance about OBL’s death, that’s fine. They’re certainly allowed their opinion. But to equate them to the 9/11 celebrants is ridiculous and beyond offensive. To call them “Animals” is frankly disgusting.

        And if I needed to use the door Moe, I wouldn’t need you to offer it to me. I’d quietly make my exit like an adult.

        • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

          Which tells me that Toby hit the mark.

          Now, what I’m being touchy about is the implicit reaction in this thread from various people who aren’t very happy that their recent behavior patterns are being questioned. We’re not here to tell people what to think; but we’re also not here to keep people comfortable in the way that they’re thinking, either.

          • bcochran1981

            because their behavior patterns are being questioned. They’re mad because they were outright insulted on several levels.

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            Of course, I’m in this position where I agree with Toby’s point; I just don’t care. Which says something not-nice about me personally, to be brutally honest – and it’s certainly a factor in my opinion on the merits of the cartoon.

          • bcochran1981

            an animal and being equated with the people who cheered and celebrated while the WTC came down and people died is about as insulting as it gets IMO.

            What it says about you is that you’re honest with and about yourself. Which is something that this country, it’s leaders specifically, could do with a lot more of.

          • Jim Tomasik

            Just carry on with your celebrating! I know I will.

            Let the uppity self righteous and pious be uppity self righteous and pious. That’s their business.

      • oldbird77

        So you have a problem with someone having a problem with someone else having a problem with the way we’re celebrating?

        • bcochran1981

          but no. I certainly don’t have a problem with Moe. I’ve said repeatedly I’m a fan and he’s my fav blogger on this site. I don’t really have a problem with Toby either, beyond this one cartoon.

          • oldbird77

            I was needling Moe, who I also enjoy. His personal blog is one of my favorites.

          • bcochran1981

            now I got ya…

    • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

      I’ve said this before (further up the screen), but in cased it is missed…

      I have not problem with him being dispatched. I’m glad he was terminated. I’m proud of our military that went in and did it, but I do have a problem with us reacting like the animals in the Middle-East do to this kind of event. When you look back and forth it’s hard to tell the difference.

      Be glad that OBL’s reign of Al-Queda is over, but I simply don’t agree with how those kids reacted.

      • bcochran1981

        I have no problem with someone thinking that the response should’ve been different. Everyone has a right to an opinion. But to classify them as animals was over the top.

        So they look they same? They also look a lot like the ten 3-8 year olds that were at my kid’s bday party last weekend. It’s not the “how,” it’s the “what.” Those in the ME were celebrating an attack and murder of civilians. The celebrants from a few days ago were celebrating the perpetrator of that attack being brought to justice.

        I’ve told this to several people and I’ll repeat it here: I don’t revel in the death of one man, I don’t cheer death for death’s sake. I revel in justice. I cheer the triumph of good over evil.

        This man was made to face the justice he deserved, not only here on earth, but he also had to stand before the Throne of God and answer for his actions. I unashamedly celebrate that.

        • littlehouse18

          I’m sure the intent was good, and I’m not totally comfortable with the street celebrations, but the cartoon was highly insulting to Americans celebrating justice delivered.

          Also, regarding the college students, let’s remember that most of them were about 10 years old when we were attacked. 9-11 must have been even more traumatizing for them at that impressionable age. I have yet to tell my children about it, still figuring out how.

      • acat

        I’d taken the second panel as leftist idiots who think the war on terror ended because one old jihadi has been shuffled off this mortal coil, and that they can now put hair care products in their carry-on again.

        Mew

      • oldbird77

        So, TobyToons, you have a serious problem with the way that the midshipmen celebrated as well? because I found the video to be quite inspirational (even though someone with the academy keeps taking it down off of youtube) and not all that different in tone from what took place in front of the White House.

        • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

          I don’t have a problem with any military personnel celebrating it – they are defending the country and just accomplished a big objective in the War on Terror.

          I see the party in front of the WH as a bunch of college kids finding a reason to party by celebrating someone’s death. They aren’t paid to hunt down and kill people and defend the country – like out military is.

          Again, I repeat for the 3rd time, we did the right (and justified) thing in getting rid of him, I was just uncomfortable with the celebration. Have a beer, have a shot, have a cigar… don’t have a street party.

  • Aaron Gardner

    Some of the celebrations in the streets were distasteful and I agree with the comparison that was made. At the same time, some were patriotic and geared towards the relief we felt as a nation.

    When they gathered together and said the Pledge of Allegiance in NY with a soldier and some friends holding the Flag from a light post, I was right with them and felt that represented a patriotic and healing moment.

  • pantera

    yeah cause they’re exactly the same…
    WTF(wheres the funny)

    • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

      not a funny. Not all political cartoons are funny. Some are meant to be serious and start discussions.

  • http://www.2010blog.net jsanzone

    Substance-addled 20-something Leftists (morons) in the second panel.

    I get it.

  • billyd

    So i take it from your explanation above that those palestinians who celebrated the attacks of 9/11 and the murders committed that day from the confines of there home did nothing wrong in your view? It’s fine as long as they celebrate away from the public eye?

    I see the events that transpired in the two cartoons you created above to be completely different. In the cartoon on the left, you show a celebration that was for people having to decide to burn or jump. People who were killed for going to work to earn a living to provide for their families. People who were innocent. In the picture on the left i see people who are celebrating the death of the man who declared war on their country. The death of the man who financed numerous terrorist operations in multiple countries designed to kill innocent civilians.

    And as another person posted above… Do you have an issue with the Naval Cadets celebrations?

    • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

      also…

      Left Panel – celebrating death.
      Right Panel – celebrating death.

      You are reading too much into it (or just trying to put words in my mouth now). How exactly am I saying that palestinians celebrating in the street is OK? In fact, the cartoon was trying to make the EXACT opposite point – that they look like idiots when they do it – SO WHY SHOULD WE DO IT TOO? Be glad, and move on to the next target – not make it into a campaign poster for Obama.

  • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

    saying that I think I missed the mark this time, but contrary to some of the ideas floated here, I’m not a closet lefty, or a “holier than though” type that is going to be moving over to the daily kos.

    I think that the WH is also going to do its best to keep this story in the news (even helping keep the conspiracy theories going) to divert attention from the real issues that should hurt Obama in 2012.

    A bunch of us will just have to disagree on this topic, but lets keep up the good fight. I made my statement on this particular news story, and am going to move on.

    • bcochran1981

      I honestly appreciate your candor and willingness to come to the comments and debate/explain your position. It’s something that I wish would happen more here at RS.

      My problem was never with the idea that the celebrations were right or wrong. People are certainly allowed to have their opinions and express them. My problem was the way in which you expressed it. Referring to them as animals and comparing them to those that cheer terrorism is, imo, just plain wrong.

      While disappointed by this particular toon, I’ve loved pretty much every other one you’ve done and look forward to new ones in the future.

  • rabidf16

    Keep this one one your honor wall as “most controversial.”
    As an active duty officer (19 years) who just happened to be TDY to Washington DC on May 1st, I can tell you that as I sat in my hotel room at 1:00am (jet lagged and wide awake) I seriously considered walking over to the Mall to join the celebration. I felt celebratory. But I didn’t go. It didn’t feel right.
    I will admit, I did a double take when I saw your cartoon. My gut reaction was that of many above. But I (unlike most, if not all of those above) was faced with the real prospect of joining the celebration. I didn’t. It didn’t feel right. Your cartoon is controversial because you’ve exposed a truth. I’ll bet that many of the posters above, if faced with the same choice I had, would have made the same choice; to stay home and “celebrate” privately.
    Keep up the good work.

    • http://www.tobytoons.com TobyToons

      Thank you for serving the country.

  • 1stRichard

    Is there some sort of line here we must not cross, I did not expect the controversy when I asked. I had thought we were exceptional and with the dancing in the street had me wondering. In this, I was thinking about the small conflict I have, I know with others like me it is much grater and probably the most famous of which involved Ira Hayes but this is something I will not discuss. I was simply looking to define the line we must not cross but all I see is how deeply divided we are in this.