Former congressman and Colorado Republican Senate candidate Bob Schaffer had a debate with congressman and Democrat Senate candidate Mark Udall this past week. I was unable to attend, but there was quite a lively crowd. Mark Udall was blindsided by Bob Schaffer during the debate with his response to a question from the channel 9 News moderator. This is one that's best seen, rather than read.
They really just don't get much better than this. Make note of the laughter from the liberals during this clip. They really get it handed to them when you really consider that they are laughing not at Schaffer, but Udall.
In the gamer parlance
RedFox84 July 17th, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. CDT (link)
pwned.
Hahahaha...
iamcool388 July 18th, 2008 at 3 a.m. CDT (link)
That was my first reaction too... I knew something like this was coming up... but that was absolutely, 100%... PWNED!!
Is it because I is black? - Ali G
Gauss Rifle at Udall's Atlas
Raven July 18th, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. CDT (link)
tohit: Rolls Boxcars Hit location: Boxcars
In ACTA terms: 1AD Beam, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4 (repeat ad nauseum)
in Warhammer terms: Panic test for army: boxcars
in MtG: Moderator: "I cast Overrun on my swarm of 50 saprolings and attack. After blocking declarations, I cast Vitalizing Wind." Schaffer: "Fog."
In DnD: You fail your Reflex Save and take the full brunt of the Elder Dragon's breath attack.
In MW 3rd Ed: Character: Schaffer Edge: 10
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
One more thing
Raven July 18th, 2008 at 4:41 p.m. CDT (link)
Udall, Schaffer just cast:
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
Owned....
daveroni July 20th, 2008 at 10:13 p.m. CDT (link)
Awesome
Mord July 17th, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. CDT (link)
A "smear" to a democrat is a "direct quote" to the rest of us. Udall didn't look too happy right at the end. I wish there was a cartoon thought bubble above his head saying what he was thinking at that time.
“Republicans never win polls, they win elections,” - Rudy Giuliani
That's the Sweetest vid of the week
$peciallist July 17th, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. CDT (link)
Bob is the man....More like him please.
"Sorry, I'm really don't think I'm brilliant.."...DavidJuarez ..What?..lol
Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark. <nt>
bs July 17th, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. CDT (link)
The Unofficial RedState FAQ 2.0 “You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
Someone brought a shotgun
Dave_in_Fla July 17th, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. CDT (link)
To a knife fight.
Too bad the clip doesn't include Udall trying to weasel out of that.
Hilarious.
"If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country."
No need for that
Joe_Schmo July 17th, 2008 at 5:24 p.m. CDT (link)
You know how it goes as it's the standard Democrat talking point.
Bush bamboozled them. Bush lied. Bush, somehow, convinced all the intelligence agency's in the free world to make up all the intel so he could have "his war".
Keep in mind, we are supposed to ignore their claim of him being the dumbest President ever. It's kind of hard to push that idea and that you were outsmarted at the same time.
Joe Schmo's blog
If Bush lied and he's stupid
Oz July 21st, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. CDT (link)
then what does that make the Democrats.
Dumb as a box of rocks, actually -nt
Joe_Schmo July 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 p.m. CDT (link)
N/T
Joe Schmo's blog
Numbers
Fedaykin July 17th, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. CDT (link)
Udall has been steadily building a lead since last Winter.
electoral-vote.com
pollster.com
I'd like to see how this affects the numbers. New polls are often released following a debate.
Out with the Oak King.
Yeah but
Rod_Patrick July 17th, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. CDT (link)
It's MSM-driven poll and no one in his right mind can fully trust it.
Better for Bob to focus on campaigning house to house, community to community, rather than be affected by the so called (biased) poll results.
What are you basing that on?
Fedaykin July 18th, 2008 at 12:19 a.m. CDT (link)
Few of the polls are marked as having been commissioned by a media outlet; most of them were done by Rasmussen. Scott Rasmussen is a conservative evangelical christian. While a good pollster finds the results his employer wants him to find, Rasmussen isn't often commissioned by liberal sources. I really don't think Rasmussen Reports is a source with liberal bias. John Zogby is. Quinnipiac is. Rasumssen isn't.
Out with the Oak King.
Well
Rod_Patrick July 18th, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. CDT (link)
My mistake. Rasmussen is technically not part of the MSM. For me, MSM-driven means those polls conducted by Newsweek, CNN, and the like.
I agree with you that Rasmussen is at least the most credible poll body. Gallup is a poor second for me. But make no mistake. Expect that the other party is thinking of the contrary. And it means only thing:
Poll results will always be viewed as biased by the party whose candidate is trailing. This will always be a normal behavior of either party.
While you may think that Rasmussen results is reliable, many of Schaffer's followers are condemning the trends being shown by said results, and they don't care whether Rasmussen's results are fair or scientifically correct.
Given the above, please allow me to clarify my statement: I really don't give much credit to the results of any kind of poll. I gave my viewpoint on this in one of Kay's diary. I listed some technical reasons why I find many polls unreliable (especially in the case of general election).
Besides the technical issues, polls promote "trending" especially in the minds of a "poll believer". The usual victims of the polls are the non-partisan, moderates and the regular fools.
Hearing that Candidate A is leading Candidate B in the polls, the usual attraction for above-cited types of voters is on Candidate A, especially if Candidate A is backed up by the good publicity from the MSM to dismiss the idea of Candidate B being an "underdog".
As example, McCain has explicitly stated that he is the underdog in his race against MSM-backed and poll-leading candidate BO. I think he didn't just say it out of exasperation. In doing so, McCain is wittingly quelling the idea that BO is a runaway winner in November.
Thus, regardless of the Rasmussen's efficient and fair survey, its results promote "trending". And the trending itself gives "additional donations" and "free votes" to the leading candidate. This is very evident in the case of Schaffer and Udall.
The poll itself may correct the trend later, but it has already created a problem: extra effort is required to change the mind of those who have already made their decisions/preferences based on the initial trends. This is especially true in the case of interest groups who already invested money on the previously leading candidate.
Please remember: Election is just a "popularity contest" (i.e., identity politics) to about 20% of American voting populace.
Yeah but
Rod_Patrick July 17th, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. CDT (link)
It's MSM-driven poll and no one in his right mind should put his/her faith on it.
Better for Bob to focus on campaigning house to house, community to community, rather than be affected by the so called (biased) poll results.
Is this really a debate?
Rod_Patrick July 17th, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. CDT (link)
The event seems like a plot to destroy Udall's career in the eyes of his own followers.
Udall's inconsistency, like many of our Democrat politicians who earlier supported the war, makes him look like an idiot.
Bob is just a witty and cunning Republican.
McCain-poetry in motion!
BetsyRoss July 18th, 2008 at 10:10 p.m. CDT (link)
Why I love him: blue eyes like the ocean, forceful and manly personality, soft-spoken, visionary, wise, experienced. I believe he is the one to lead our dear nation to victory. Bless him!
Ad aspera, ad astra.
Smack!
Brian Simpson July 17th, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. CDT (link)
I thought I heard a loud smacking sound the other day. I just didn't know that it was coming all the way from CO.
Government´s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidise it. ~ Ronald Reagan
Visit me here for more of my musings.
5555555555....
Aaron Gardner July 17th, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. CDT (link)
Udall is going to lose. Regardless of what the polls say.
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
"I'll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust" Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah...yes I love it that much.
You're basing that on what?
snoozealarm July 23rd, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. CDT (link)
Do you have any evidence to that effect or is it more the same wishful thinking that has destroyed this party? The GOP doesn't need anymore people that shut their eyes keep repeating "We're gonna win! We're gonna win!". It needs people getting out there, with their eyes open, seeing the ground truth and working to make this country better with strong conservative values. Udall is an extremely strong Democratic candidate and anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves. He is one of a handful of Democratic candidates that are the correct candidates for the Dems to run in the correct place at the correct time. Hoping the Democratic party is going to implode is not a useful strategy.
The fact that this video apparently inspires people...
Moe Lane July 23rd, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. CDT (link)
...to register for the express purpose of telling us why a particularly savage beatdown of the Democratic candidate by the Republican one is clear evidence why the latter is going to lose.
I mean, dude. Absent more data, I don't know what your actual message was supposed to be - but any way you cut it, epic fail.
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.I've been usurped!just... wow.
randy streu July 17th, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. CDT (link)
gotta love it when Democrat's words come back and bite 'em. Happens pretty much daily, now that I think about it...
.
And isn't that a sweet thing? As pertains to
janis July 17th, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. CDT (link)
Iraq, the whole lot of them who were for it before they were against it must absolutely curse the technology that makes it so easy to nail them for the pandering wusses they really are.
Nice job, NT.
gc reco'ed as Udall twists in the night
gamecock July 17th, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. CDT (link)
and day
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns The Minority Report and The HinzSight Report "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice Race 4 2008 "One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Classic blow.
KBDay July 17th, 2008 at 6:09 p.m. CDT (link)
Yesterday I said we don't know how to fight. Schaffer does. What a nice end-of-day experience, watching that film.
I have been thinking...
iamcool388 July 18th, 2008 at 3:08 a.m. CDT (link)
about exactly what you said. Republicans actually have a lot of opportunities to gain ground in this election cycle. What we need is people like Bob who will keep hitting the Democrats and not let them weasel out of what they have said, and what they have done.
I was actually wondering if I should write a post on how Republicans havent been forthcoming enough in their criticism of their Democratic opponents. This untenable situation is made even worse by McCain, the Presidential nominee, when he should be taking the lead in showcasing the hypocrisy being practiced and preached by the Democratic party. Alas, the Republicans seem to have sunk into a strategy of waiting this cycle out.
I would love to write a post on this, but I kneel before the writing abilities of Moe, BlackRepub, Erick, Gamecock, Vladimir etc etc. I want it to he a hard hitting piece, exhorting the Republican to not go down without a fight, and sadly, my emotions far outweigh my abilities. I would love to see a call to arms written by these excellent writers though.
Is it because I is black? - Ali G
Time to Fight
Whitehorse July 19th, 2008 at 12:30 a.m. CDT (link)
Not only on this issue, but also on drilling for our own oil. Republicans running for office need to hit their Democrat opponents incessantly with these issues, juxtaposing the Democrat's failure with a pathway to success.
Highly recommended
Jack_Savage July 17th, 2008 at 6:26 p.m. CDT (link)
He brought an Uzi to a chess match.
A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are made for.
Can we make Shafer the Presidential nominee at the Convention?
AceInTX July 17th, 2008 at 8:47 p.m. CDT (link)
How's that for a "Respectful" debate!
http://meandmyilk.blogtownhall.com
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.--Ronald Wilson Reagan
email me @ Aces_ILK@yahoo.com
Bam!
olsmithie July 17th, 2008 at 10:15 p.m. CDT (link)
When opportunity and preparedness meet...
Doesn't get much better than that!
Regards
Recommended- it's a classic. - nt
BooBooKitty July 18th, 2008 at 6:47 a.m. CDT (link)
Thou art the Great Cat, the avenger of the Gods, and the judge of words...-Inscription on the Royal Tombs at Thebes
Schaffer is doing it right!
jyalai July 18th, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. CDT (link)
If you listen to the whole debate, Udall keeps trying to be all inclusive. He wants to work with all of us to come up with solutions. Bob Schaffer ignored this pandering and went after the facts.
He did not let Udall embrace him into the group hug parlance that Democrats try to do when they've got nothing.
I would suggest to Bob in the next debate to have data ready to show how non-partisan and non-inclusive Udall's record really is. After Udall makes a few comments about all of us working together, Bob can pull it out and smack him with the facts.
Udall is no Ken Salazar. For that matter, Ken Salazar is no Ken Salazar!
WOW
AzHat July 18th, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. CDT (link)
This is great. We need to see more of this.
www.McNotObama.com
How cool was that!
liberalrepublican July 18th, 2008 at 5:13 p.m. CDT (link)
All time great debate KNOCKOUTS.
"Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. ... including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy,
Is Mark Udall a scion of Morris Udall? NT
Kyle July 18th, 2008 at 5:59 p.m. CDT (link)
?
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty" Kyle
I wish I could watch it.
itrytobenice July 18th, 2008 at 9:31 p.m. CDT (link)
I take it from the comments that there was a classic takedown. Unfortunately, I'm having video issues and can't play. :(
I meant what I said and I said what I meant. An elephant's faithful 100 percent.
Shaffer's answer
Raven July 18th, 2008 at 10:22 p.m. CDT (link)
was to read the resolution on Iraq written by Udall in late 2002 or early 2003.
He didn't mention the author at that time, merely called for a showing of hands as to who agreed with it, mentioned it was a party line vote (Schaffer supporters in the audience agreed with the resolution, Udall supporters did not) and then said it was kind of funny how that worked out because Udall wrote the resolution.
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
I need details
joebloe July 18th, 2008 at 9:38 p.m. CDT (link)
REPUBLICANS EVERYWHERE! I invite all of you to try to find what specific plans McCain has for this country. I have gone to his web site and have not been able to find anything with details! You can go to Obama's web site and find out for yourself what his plan is for the future of this country, with specific details! For me I would rather know what my president has in mind for this great nation of ours. Now if those specifics don't agree with you then, of course, vote for who actually has a plan that you do agree with. Just don't be a mindless follower, read the details from all the candidates and be informed!
We know Obama has a plan, troll.
NightTwister July 18th, 2008 at 10:25 p.m. CDT (link)
It's... HOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGEHOPECHANGE
Night Twister • Veterans For McCain-•-Palin
HTML Blowout!
$peciallist July 18th, 2008 at 10:57 p.m. CDT (link)
n/t
"Sorry, I'm really don't think I'm brilliant.."...DavidJuarez ..What?..lol
I have read Karl marx
Jack_Savage July 18th, 2008 at 10:25 p.m. CDT (link)
So I am pretty up to speed on Obama's plans for this country.
A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are made for.
Mindless follower?
bs July 18th, 2008 at 10:42 p.m. CDT (link)
My, you and your fellow acolytes should know, since your man-god draws them like flies. Oh, those here are plenty informed...and we would prefer not to live in the United Socialist States of America.
Now, reverse your name and bloe, Joe. Your bridge awaits you.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ 2.0 “You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
Joe bloe what is informed
grizzly July 18th, 2008 at 11:55 p.m. CDT (link)
You actually read a plan that Obama has for the USA if he is elected president. I have been to his website and I missed it, but maybe you were there on a day that he wasn't stoned. Do You actually know what his plans are? Do you know who writes his speeches (he doesn't). His plan for America is one that should bring you to your knees because it is every thing that our forefathers have fought and died to prevent and that is loss of our freedom. You scare me because I think you really do consider yourself informed.
Doesn't matter.
skorrent July 19th, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. CDT (link)
He modifies his website on a daily basis, so if you go today you never know what he will have deleted by tomorrow.
Any post debate coverage ?
SteveLA July 19th, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. CDT (link)
This looked like a real knock-out for Schaffer, but how did the local papers report it...anyone?
______________________________________
NObama...no way!.....McCain '08 !
CO Senate Post Debate Coverage
NightTwister July 19th, 2008 at 8:23 p.m. CDT (link)
Schaffer vs. Udall (Colorado blogging effort)
Channel 9 News (links to several articles)
Denver Post (half-hearted coverage)
Rocky Mountain News (after-debate spin at its worst)
More Rocky Mountain News (scroll to bottom for specifics about the debate)
Night Twister • Veterans For McCain-•-Palin
Qualification for president (what)?
notfooled July 20th, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. CDT (link)
Military Education, Father high ranking military man. Extensive jet fighter training all at huge expense to train John McCain. A complete failure as a military man. Crashed expensive plane, captured by enemy. A complete waste, no hero, A Hero uses all training to accomplish difficult missions to save lives or giving life to accomplish the nearly impossible. How is John to be considered hero for sitting in prison and doing nothing.
Please...
rbdwiggins July 20th, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. CDT (link)
Do not insult our intelligence.
The content of your comment clearly indicates you are either a fool, or a tool...
Your choice...
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
the lack of coherent sentence structure
Raven July 20th, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. CDT (link)
suggests an idiot being willingly used.
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
I was leaning toward both...
rbdwiggins July 20th, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. CDT (link)
but I thought I'd at least give notfooled a choice and a chance to respond.
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
Fools and Idiots
notfooled July 20th, 2008 at 4:52 p.m. CDT (link)
As stated by a man with Alzheimers.
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
Excuse me.
Remember, folks: Obama supporter. <NT>
Moe Lane July 20th, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. CDT (link)
NT
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.I've been usurped!Remember this little tidbit, notfooled...
rbdwiggins July 20th, 2008 at 9:48 p.m. CDT (link)
Obviously, Obama considered Ronald Reagan to be one of America's greatest presidents.
Otherwise, Obama would not have been so persistent that he be allowed to speak at Brandenburg Gate.
Thankfully, Chancellor Merkel quickly recognized Obama's intended ploy, and decided in no uncertain terms that she would play no part in lending such an historic site, or President Reagan's credibility and stature, to such an empty suit.
Regarding his settled speaking choice: Apparently, Obama "don't know much about history."
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
clean up......
Aaron Gardner July 20th, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. CDT (link)
are you such a bad troll that you have to come on a diary about a senate race in Colorado to complain about John McCain as our Presidential nominee....pfft...be gone!!!
"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger
"I'll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust" Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah...yes I love it that much.
experience tops sentence structure
notfooled July 20th, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. CDT (link)
Sorry about messing up your dreams. I have a problem with the republican party and its supporters. This country is made up of all kinds of people, Some are older than you, some are younger, some do not have the education or the will to get one. Each one is an American with the same rights you have. I am a registered Republican. The republican party stinks today. Lies from our leaders, and tax breaks to the wealthy have not helped our country or it's people. Anything other than the current administration / McCain would be a better move for the country. Facts are facts. I went to Viet Nam while George Bush and Mr. Cheney skated. I was Drafted. I did not hide as did Cheny and Bush and numerous others who were wealthy enough to hide from the draft. Perhaps if you were around when everyone was supposed to fight for his country you would Know and feel different about draft dodgers and deferments.
Using McCains military experience as the reason he knows how to win a war is laughable. How does crashing your plane, and failing your mission, and becoming a prisoner of war make you know how to win wars. McCain has no experience in winning a war. Bush is now using OBamas Ideas about talking to the enemy. For seven years Bush has said that no contact is the best way to accomplish his goals in Iran and N Korea. Funny how he changed policy after McCain stated that Obama's ideas were those of a novice. Perhaps New ideas and change has a place. Now we're talking to N. Korea and Iran. Now setting a date for being out of Iraq is good. Funny how things change. why the changes?
The current administration and McCain are a bunch of loosers,and liers, and have failed in service to this country.
Reguarding sentence structure, To publicly announce that you deserve to be heard because you are good at sentence structure definetly makes you material for a party that needs people that will believe anything. Check the facts. Become a real supporter of the U.S.and like me, join the Democratic Party.
You are too funny
Brian Simpson July 20th, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. CDT (link)
Experience?
Just what has Obama accomplished?
Name one thing and you will be in the top 1% of Obama supporters. The man has been perpetually running for the next office.
Government´s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidise it. ~ Ronald Reagan
Visit me here for more of my musings.
You know, perhaps a mental health professional could help you
bs July 20th, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. CDT (link)
Your disorder is a well-known problem. With modern medical care, you may be curable.
It's so sad to see victims like you suffer so terribly.
The Unofficial RedState FAQ 2.0 “You are not only responsible for what you say, but also for what you do not say. ” - Martin Luther
Hi there, draftee.
Flagstaff July 20th, 2008 at 5:56 p.m. CDT (link)
Where were you during the Kerry campaign?
"Using McCains military experience as the reason he knows how to win a war is laughable."
Wasn't that Kerry's claim? I don't believe that McCain has said he knows how to win the war because he has military experience. He just said he knows how to win the war. Maybe it's because he's spent over twenty years serving his country dealing with grown-ups about grown-up problems. Obama, OTOH, just knows how to "facilitate" and "coordinate" and "get out." That's Democrat talk for "quit."
"For seven years Bush has said that no contact is the best way to accomplish his goals in Iran and N Korea. "
Actually, our policy has been to deal with both countries as part of international coalitions, not unilaterally. We have been willing to talk and talking to North Korea as part of such a group for several years. We are now part of a group conversing with Iran, not at the Presidential level, but at the envoy level. In case you missed it, that isn't what Obama wanted to do.
"Now setting a date for being out of Iraq is good."
Not what Bush has said. The "horizon" is at the edge of one's view. Obama is still fixed on a timetable. That's a fixed schedule, starting in January, and continuing for 16 months, at which point we leave the Iraqis to their own devices. Obama tries to nuance his way out of that, but it's still where he is right now.
Obama wants to leave in 16 months; McCain wants to win, then leave. Notice the difference.
"I am a registered Republican."
"Become a real supporter of the U.S.and like me, join the Democratic Party."
Well, OK, which is it?
"I went to Viet Nam while George Bush and Mr. Cheney skated. I was Drafted."
Kudos for not running to Canada. If you actually made it to Viet Nam, I'm surprised you don't have more appreciation for McCain's courage. Would you have turned down an early return home from prison camp just because your fellow prisoners couldn't go too? You know that he can't lift his arms over his head because of the torture, don't you?
"Check the facts."
You might try that yourself.
Visit rightchange.com and contribute to put out the messages we want to see.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
My interpretation
mobius2702 July 20th, 2008 at 8:26 p.m. CDT (link)
"Become a real supporter of the U.S.and like me, join the Democratic Party."
Well, OK, which is it?
I think he just wants people to like him, and also support the U.S. I have no idea how joining the Democratic Party is relevant to either one...
I meant,
Flagstaff July 21st, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. CDT (link)
is he a registered Republican or a member of the Democratic Party? He claimed to be both.
Visit rightchange.com and contribute to put out the messages we want to see.
Pluto, the Ninth Planet - Forever!
Of course he did
mobius2702 July 21st, 2008 at 8:47 p.m. CDT (link)
Of course he claimed to be both... he just wants to be liked.
(a.k.a. mocking his head-splitting sentence structure.... grrr it's no fun when I have to explain it!)
All right, I will end snark mode.
It's just difficult to be anything but snarky with those people.
You'll have to excuse me... I'm a non-union contractor in an auto plant. I have 8 hours of bottled-up snark every day (for fear of getting my car keyed or tires slashed).
Sorry, gotta call you on this point
Raven July 20th, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. CDT (link)
We're not "conversing with" Iran.
We told them what it would take for them to get us to do so, and the President just sent over a guy to hear Iran's answer. No negotiations. No conversing. No discussion. "Here's the deal. Yes? or No?" And now we get to hear the answer.
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
Yes, the facts Are the facts
Raven July 20th, 2008 at 9:13 p.m. CDT (link)
Did President Bush take advantage of a loophole in the draft? Yes. He VOLUNTEERED for the National Guard. It allowed him to pick his unit and have a greater control over his duties. It also meant he was taking the chance of being deployed to Dai Viet with that unit.
The last Democrat to be elected president went to Canada to avoid the entire issue.
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
Charles K. would disagree with you--
Flagstaff July 21st, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. CDT (link)
but I won't. I like your description better.
Just got a 500 error. Let's see if this posts twice.
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(K) Raven, this was supposed to be in response
Flagstaff July 21st, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. CDT (link)
to your comment about "conversing." I don't know if I hit the wrong "reply to" button, or if something else happened.
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My description was the one the Secretary of State gave
Raven July 21st, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. CDT (link)
I don't see as how Charles whomever has a leg to stand on.
And you replied to my comment about draft-dodging...
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
Krauthammer
Flagstaff July 22nd, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. CDT (link)
nt
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Whomever
Raven July 23rd, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. CDT (link)
Whoever r whatever he used to be, I'll listen to the Sec of State first on things under that office's jurisdiction till I have reason to not listen to the Secretary of State on things under that office's jurisdiction.
"It is getting harder and harder to find suicide bombers. And all the really good ones are gone."
Minor nit, actually he went to England
The_Gadfly July 22nd, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. CDT (link)
but it was the same net effect.
I'm not sure which I find more reprehensible, the way he dodged around his duty while "preserving his future electability" or the way he abused the military by using them to distract people from his legal troubles after he was in office. Obama will be more of the same.
"Who wants to cast the first stone?"
The_Gadfly July 22nd, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. CDT (link)
a friend of mine frequently misquotes when he wants to end a debate. Because he is a friend, I usually resist the urge to jump up and yell "I will! I will!"
Personally I regard McCain as a lousy Republican and more of Democrat light than a Republican. But against the slanders you lay on McCain I will not resist that urge. Yes, he was shot down in a very expensive fighter and held prisoner for so long he was effectively out of the front line fighting of the war. But the fight he took on in that time was no less a fight in the war. The war criminals who held him in captivity subjected him to real torture, not just taking pictures of him in embarrassing positions. They tortured him to the point he cannot raise his arms fully to this day. In those conditions, in hopes of breaking the spirits of other captured men at the camp, his persecutors offered him the chance to go home early. Instead he insisted the protocols of war be followed, and that those who were captured before him be released before he was. For this offense they tortured him harder. I may not like the man's policies, but NEVER, NEVER call him a complete failure as a military man and a liar when I'm around.
Now as for your claims to be a veteran of that war, I call you LIAR. I am too young to have served in that war, but I have known men who served in Vietnam. One of them served as a medic for the marines. None of them talk the way you posted. The likes of your post are found mostly in the testimony of the "Winter Soldiers" many if not most of whom have now been discredited as shills who never were anywhere near Vietnam let alone the front lines. If you wish to issue fighting words sir, I will fight you. And when you issue fighting words against an honorable man who is not here to defend himself I will also fight you.
As for John McCain's ability to lead in war, it doesn't matter to me whether or not he was captured in Vietnam. What matters is that when all others in Washington were losing their heads, he proposed, fought for, and eventually convinced the Commander in Chief to implement the strategy that eventually led to victory in Iraq. Because everywhere our military has been allowed to fight, they have achieved victory. And Iraq is slowly becoming Iran's and Syria's worst nightmare: a stable Arab democracy on their border. The strategic value of that asset in the ongoing psychological war with the Islamic fascists cannot be underestimated. And that makes it more important than Osama bin Laden, who at best is hiding out in a cave on the Afghanistan border.
One last thing to consider. Obama has one chance at the election this fall: that is that people like me who are disgusted with the current failings of the Republican party will regard McCain as more of the same and therefore as bad for the country as the alternative and stay home. Keep posting the way you have, and there's no way we do.
Very well done, sir.
Flagstaff July 22nd, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. CDT (link)
Exactly right.
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Remember folks, Obama supporter
Neil Stevens July 20th, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. CDT (link)
This is what they really think of the troops. Kerry called them terrorists when he lets his guard down. They all think this it seems. That's the far left for you.
It seems an exaggeration to say they hate America and everything our country stands for, but if you go down point by point...
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Nobody can claim a "free speech" right to suck the fun out of our lives. Certainly not on a private board. – Steve Jackson
They may be patriotic but it would
gamecock July 20th, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. CDT (link)
hard to produce enough evidence for a jury to convict them of it!
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns The Minority Report and The HinzSight Report "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice Race 4 2008 "One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I love that metaphor (nt)
Neil Stevens July 20th, 2008 at 12:27 p.m. CDT (link)
HTML Help for Red Staters
Nobody can claim a "free speech" right to suck the fun out of our lives. Certainly not on a private board. – Steve Jackson
The pastor of my church
gamecock July 20th, 2008 at 12:49 p.m. CDT (link)
used to use that metaphor for people that claimed to be christians but lived like the devil.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns The Minority Report and The HinzSight Report "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." - The Chief Justice Race 4 2008 "One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Heh. I see Neil noted that already. <NT>
Moe Lane July 20th, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. CDT (link)
NT
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.I've been usurped!Defeat a dhimmie by quoting them accurates
hunter July 20th, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. CDT (link)
Dhimmies win by getting away with lying.
WOW
RioGrandeRightWing July 20th, 2008 at 9:40 p.m. CDT (link)
That was
AMAZING.
Can we see more of this around the country!? That was the greatest thing I'd seen in a while.
Nicely served.
Remington_Steele July 20th, 2008 at 11:18 p.m. CDT (link)
Sweet smack down from Schaffer. Thanks NT.
Is it just me...
Everton July 23rd, 2008 at 11:26 p.m. CDT (link)
or do others find it a huge turn off to come to redstate.com and see this same diary heading (and all the other identical recommnded diary headings) day, after day, after day....
What happened? Is it due to a big drop in traffic and therefore people are not recommending new diaries
Anybody?
Tech issue. <NT>
Moe Lane July 23rd, 2008 at 11:42 p.m. CDT (link)
nt
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.I've been usurped!Two things
Neil Stevens July 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 p.m. CDT (link)
A ton of people recommended this over a period of days
We're using the RS 1 algorithm right now, which gives more prominence to diaries that et a ton of people recommending a diary over many days.
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Nobody can claim a "free speech" right to suck the fun out of our lives. Certainly not on a private board. – Steve Jackson
Ok thanks..
Everton July 24th, 2008 at 1:28 a.m. CDT (link)
for taking time to fill me in.
But i prefer the old alogorithm:), i miss her
Agreed
GOPaisano July 24th, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. CDT (link)
I do agree that a highly recommended diary doesn't need to be gone in a day, but I think over 4 days is far too long. If it's extremely important, we should link at the top.
No one of good character leaves behind a wasted life - John McCain
It's not availiable any more!!!
Jake W July 29th, 2008 at 3:53 a.m. CDT (link)
Dang, and I enjoyed watching it earlier, too!
We need more people like Schaeffer running for office.
If I recall, didn't he turn down a request from the President to break his term limits pledge a few years back?
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose."
--Benjamin Disraeli
We're all just raisin' McCain...
Still works for me. <NT>
Moe Lane July 29th, 2008 at 6:16 a.m. CDT (link)
NT
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC.I've been usurped!Hmm...odd...
Jake W July 29th, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. CDT (link)
I guess Youtube must have restored service to it or something.
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose."
--Benjamin Disraeli
We're all just raisin' McCain...
Yes, he did.
NightTwister July 29th, 2008 at 6:26 a.m. CDT (link)
He told the President that staying true to his word as an example to his children was even more important than a direct request from him to break it.
Night Twister • Veterans For McCain-•-Palin
Good for him...
Jake W July 29th, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. CDT (link)
It's hard to turn down a request from the President.
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose."
--Benjamin Disraeli
We're all just raisin' McCain...
good work
stjack July 29th, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. CDT (link)
those repubs sure are good at cheap shots, aren't they? Do you think if you had asked the dem before the debate whether he still agreed with the resolution that he would have embraced it? Of course not, and neither he nor his supporters embraced it at the debate. Reason (as you've already pointed out and dismissed; classic example of a straw man argument, by the way, if anyone is interested in how to actually argue logically): because the administration was lying to everyone, including Congress. You may have missed it, but there has already been a report showing that the administration lied some nine-hundred-plus different times in the lead-up to the war. You could write a textbook on logical reasoning using the examples of fallacies the right and its supporters employ on a daily basis. Oh wait, it's already been done! My te