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On Abortion and the Right to Life

A Facebook discussion

(Names redacted to protect the amoral)

My original post on Facebook:

It’s a pretty simple question, folks:
When does life begin?

Once life has begun, an abortion is no less than premeditated murder. If, however, there is no life, then there is no murder.

A growing majority, supported by medical findings (http://www.naapc.org/why-life-begins-at-conception and http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html) believe life begins at conception.

A minority of significant size believe life begins somewhere around week 20 (bolstered by the evidence ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/ ) that a fetus begins to feel pain at this time and likely as a compromise position)

And an extremely loud, extremely small minority preach that it doesn’t matter when life begins, a mother should have the “right” to murder her children, regardless (http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.full)

Certain people I thought better of have placed themselves squarely in the last category and will tolerate no opposing view.

Roe vs Wade may be the law, currently, but last I checked, the Supreme Court has not revoked the right to life nor granted free license to murder children.
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Comments

Redacted It is a simple question of who controls a woman’s body. In my view she controls her body. I your view the Government should control her body. It is that simple. there is no middle ground at all.
51 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Me When does life begin, Redacted? It all comes back to that. Once life has begun, murder is murder, regardless of the child’s place of residence.
38 minutes ago · Like

Redacted The question is who controls a woman’s body. When life begins is a red herring that is meaningless until you answer who controls a woman’s body. If a woman controls her body, then what goes on inside her body is no one’s business but hers and thus when life begins is up to her and her alone. If you think the Government controls her body, then when life begins is up to some bureaucrat to decide. So answer the threshold question first: who controls a woman’s body, the woman or the Government?
25 minutes ago · Like

Me “…when life begins is up to her and her alone…”
So your position is that the woman can murder her children simply by declaring that their lives haven’t begun, no matter their age? Because that’s what you just said.
22 minutes ago · Like

Redacted No, not what I said at all. Once they are not inside her body then they have rights of their own. While they are inside her body, she alone has control. If you think otherwise, then you believe the Government controls her body. There is no middle ground. You either believe women are people that control their own destiny, or you believe they are subservient to the Government’s control of their destiny. So which is it? Stop sidestepping the question.
19 minutes ago · Like

Me It is you who has side-stepped the question, attempting to hide behind the place of residence of the child. No one has the right to commit murder. No one.
18 minutes ago · Like

Redacted BULLSHIT
17 minutes ago · Like

Me And you just lost the case. Hope you didn’t charge too much.
17 minutes ago · Like

Me The moment you run out of arguments and resort to insults and profanity, you have lost the debate and have no more to offer the continued discussion. A person’s place of residence is immaterial to the question of whether anyone has the right to end that person’s life.
Which leaves the only question to be whether or not there is a person or a life at all.

This is why the pro-aborts (part played by Redacted) have lost the debate and why the pro-lifers (no part played at all) are winning.

The Pro-lifers provide a series of possible answers on when life begins, as listed in the OP and base their positions on abortion on that. Pro-aborts have either no moral, philosophical, or legal standing (as shown in this discussion) or claim that the child has no right to life (as shown in the last article linked to in the OP).

Decide for yourself, but answer this question: “When does life begin?”
Because once life has begun, if you still advocate abortion, then you advocate murder.

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Full disclosure: Redacted is a patent lawyer. I have no formal legal training, nor have I ever taken the Bar exam. I also take no position in the abortion debate other than that no one has the right to commit murder.

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Update:
Redacted continued arguing on his own and eventually, amidst many ad hominem attacks and lies and some profanity, came out with this:
“Legally, life begins when the fetus can survive independent from the woman and not a second before then.”
Neatly invalidating his entire argument and setting a moving target that heads closer and closer to conception as medical technology continues to improve.

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