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Who has electability? (part 2 of 2)

In part 1 (please read it first!) I made some general remarks about electability, and laid out several factors that go into it. In this entry, I’ll turn to the individual candidates and try to rate them on each component. I’ll do my darnedest to be objective, but undoubtedly there will be disagreements here. Remember, in this diary, I am concentrating solely on electability concerns; I am not trying to determine who would make the best president. Please keep that in mind when you comment!

One further caveat: since he’s such an outlier, I find it impossible to try to judge Ron Paul on these criteria. Sorry; you’ll have to get your Ron Paul electability analysis somewhere else.

Ability to win over swing Obama voters

Remember that minorities and educated whites swung particularly hard to Obama. We don’t have anyone who would be particularly stronger among minorities than anyone else, but for college-educated whites, things are a bit different. Romney, Gingrich, and Huntsman might fare best at appealing to this crowd.

Digging into more specifics, Romney (for the most part) still has his reputation as a relatively moderate candidate, which helps him with swing voters, but his famous position changes might cause him to suffer. Huntsman also has credibility with moderates but without the drastic shifts – even better. Also, I know most RedStaters don’t like what his ambassadorship says about his level of partisanship, but if there is one truism about swing voters, it’s that they are not strict partisans, and therefore would appreciate the show of cooperation. Huntsman’s soft-spoken style and obvious qualifications won’t hurt with swing voters, either, but he could use more charisma at the same time.

Gingrich is good at making arguments that might sway minds, but has his own baggage. Many centrist voters who remember his speakership will view him as a partisan Republican, with the government shutdown and the Clinton impeachment and his strong rhetoric. (There is an argument that he wasn’t actually that partisan, but we’re talking impressions here.) Perry would be middling here – no severe weaknesses, but he’s definitely seen as quite conservative (and is moving even further that way) and is not particularly practiced at winning over moderates in Texas. Santorum might be OK, if he isn’t perceived as talking about social issues all the time; he seems to be unable to state the conservative case in a way that goes over well with moderates for some reason.  Bachmann is seen as extremely conservative, and likes it that way; she does not fare well in this category.

Keeping McCain voters unified and energized

Let me start by positing that no candidate is great at this particular aspect; if there was a perfect candidate, he would already have lapped the rest of this weak field in the primary polling.

Romney would probably be able to get most everyone behind him, but many will be be unhappy about it. Huntsman would also be able to get a unified party with fewer nose-holders, but he has yet to show that he can get anyone truly excited on his own. Santorum has a similar problem, but we’ll see how well he does in Iowa.

Newt Gingrich wouldn’t lose any particular wing of the party, and would be able to fire up his supporters. However, we know that some Republican voters would be very turned off by his lobbying/ethical/marital issues. We also know that the party establishment, particularly those who served with him in the House, would loathe his candidacy; the media would easily find GOP leaders to snipe at him. This will inevitably take its toll among those Republican voters who pay attention to that sort of thing.

Bachmann will energize ultra-conservatives, but seems unable to avoid turning off GOP moderates.

I suspect Perry would be the best at energizing conservatives; he won’t thrill every single wing of the party (center-right pundits like George Will, and the voters that follow them, will probably be tepid towards him), but he doesn’t raise huge red flags, either, and has proven adept at base-rallying. The biggest issue is that his propensity to forget his policy proposals will cause embarrassment for those in the party who care about intellectual credibility. (Don’t scoff. It’s actually a big problem for the GOP that it is stereotyped as the ‘dumb party’.)

Vulnerability to personal attack and caricature

Gingrich: Large vulnerabilities, on multiple fronts. I won’t go into them since they’re well-documented.  Democrats will portray him as an insider, a creep, a hypocrite.

Romney: The narrative about him has long been planted: a flip-flopping corporate raider with no real core. Not insurmountable, but it’ll be a drag, particularly since there’s plenty of truth to it. There is no doubt Obama and Axelrod have been game-planning for this eventuality for years.

Perry: The insinuations against him will undoubtedly be that he’s a dumb hick – a slicker George W. Bush squared. His Texas mannerisms will reinforce this in a lot of northerners’ subconciouses. The Obama campaign will have to be subtler about using this attack than the ones against Gingrich or Romney, but people like Jon Stewart won’t. Perry already has something of this reputation just among the Republican electorate; if he becomes the nominee and does something like blank in a debate or forget a Supreme Court justice’s name during the general election campaign, it would play right into this and spell disaster.

Bachmann: The Dem playbook will be entitled “Return of Palin”. She’ll be portrayed as an extremist with few credentials.

Santorum: Unclear. Maybe the tactic will be to insinuate that he’s obsessed with, and reactionary on, social (read: sexual) issues? Expect the neologism involving his last name to play a role among young voters.

Huntsman: Undoubtedly the least vulnerable on this front. Democrats can’t promote him as being dumb, unreliable, or a wild-eyed extremist, because then the question gets raised: if so, why the heck did Obama appoint him to be our ambassador to the largest country on earth? They can mock him for being boring, I suppose, or a plutocrat, but that seems to be about it.

Polling Evidence

So far in early polling vs. Obama there has been a fairly clear pattern that Romney has fared best, and Perry, Gingrich, and Bachmann do worse. Santorum and Huntsman get incompletes due to a lack of data.

Prior Campaigns

Numerically, Romney has the most impressive performances, getting 41% (against a local icon) and 53% of the two-party vote in his two campaigns, in a state that has a PVI of D+12. That’s an average of 9% above the Republican baseline of 38%. However, one might argue that Romney circa 2012 is a very different candidate. (He won’t be getting 53% in Massachusetts in 2012, that’s for sure!)

Santorum has 2 narrow statewide victories in a D+2 state, but also has a big loss. Of the three elections, his average performance in the 2-party vote was about 48-49%, so roughly in line with an average Republican, though with a severely downward trajectory.

Huntsman earned 58% and 80% of the two-party vote (average: 69%), but in an R+20 state, so he’s right about at the baseline.

Winner of several state-wide races, Perry garnered 59% of the 2-party vote in 2002, and 56% in 2010; I’m skipping 2006 since it was a messed up 4-way race. However, Texas has an R+10 PVI, and both 2002 and 2010 were good Republican years, so this is actually underperforming somewhat, with a slight downward trajectory. (For comparison, George W. Bush earned 54% (against a strong incumbent) and then 68%, for an average of 61%.)

Bachmann: 54%, 52%, 57% of the two-party vote in an R+7 district is below-average. In addition, all three elections featured a significant independent candidate, so her highest true vote percentage is 52.5%.

Gingrich: Incomplete. Never ran statewide and I don’t know how to find PVIs for his districts back in the 80′s and 90′s, but Gingrich post-speakership is a very different candidate anyhow.

Candidate Discipline

Romney, Huntsman, and Santorum are pretty good as far as this goes. Perry has had several missteps (mostly due to a lack of recall more than a lack of discipline) but has gotten better recently. Bachmann is more of a loose cannon and we’ve already seen Gingrich forced to walk back several statements of his.

Debating Skill

Gingrich comes out on top here, with his quick wit, obvious command of facts, and ability to tie things together. Most of the rest seem decent, particularly Romney. Perry is probably weakest in this category, although he’s improving. All of our candidates will be more practiced than Obama by the time this is over.

Fundraising

Romney and Perry have proven their abilities in this area already. The rest of the field had been languishing but if/when one of them rises in the polls, the money will inevitably come in, and the party apparatus will kick in, so I don’t think anyone is particularly weak in this area.  If I had to guess, I’d say Huntsman and Gingrich would be the best of the remaining four at schmoozing with the big money donors.

Crisis Management

I have my thoughts, but they’re much too subjective to bother writing down in this diary entry. I don’t think anybody truly knows who would be best here until we actually see them in action.

Swing States

The obvious one is Santorum in Pennsylvania, although the early polling hasn’t shown a home state boost for him; it doesn’t help that he got routed in his last election there. Bachmann is from Minnesota but is not at all popular statewide. Romney has his ties to Michigan, but those are pretty loose. So I’d say nobody really stands out.

Where does this leave us?

 

Here’s how I’d summarize the candidates through the electability prism:

Michele Bachmann seems like she would have the weakest chance against Barack Obama. Her only strength is in whipping up the conservative base (granted, she does that very well). Neither her staunchly right-wing image nor her scant record of accomplishment give swing voters any reason to vote for her, unless there’s a major Obama administration scandal or economic collapse between now and election day. The evidence so far bears this out, as Obama consistently romps in polling against her.

Newt Gingrich’s greatest electoral strength is that he is the best at personally stating the case against the Obama record in debates. However, this is not the primary method that campaigns use to attack the opponent: candidates usually do not appear in attack ads (other than to state “I approved this message”) for a reason. In addition, Gingrich has some severe drawbacks: he would not have a unified party (since a significant portion of the establishment does not like him personally at all); he is undisciplined as a candidate, due to his propensity to share every idea that comes through his head; he is viewed as a partisan figure by many swing voters; and he has a significant amount of personal and ethical baggage. All of this is reflected in the fact that he would start out with a significant deficit in the polls.

Rick Perry shot to the top of the Republican polling when he first announced. He has a strong record in Texas he can be proud of, and an unblemished electoral record as well, to the point where I think he pretty clearly has a better shot of winning than Gingrich or Bachmann. However, looking more closely at his electoral record reveals that he underperformed the Texas Republican baseline, even in strong GOP years, and was not very effective at reaching out to moderates and swing voters (he got a very strong moderate 3rd party challenge in 2006, and another one, albeit less strong, in 2010, and he even encountered a moderate primary challenge from Kay Bailey Hutchison). He usually explicitly ran from the right, and is running even further to the right in 2012. Just judging from this data, one can conclude that he’d easily be able to rally the core conservative base, but winning swing voters nationwide won’t be something he does well.

In addition, we should examine why he lost his lead in the GOP primary, to the point where he now has  negative favorables even among Republican voters. Pretty clearly, this had to do with his series of gaffes in which he blanked on things he ought to have remembered, along with his underwhelming ability to articulate his thoughts. The impression that Perry gave a lot of Republicans (and everyone else paying attention) was that he’s not intellectually capable enough to be president. Please note that I think that this is false. However, it’s the image that Perry has unfortunately created for himself, and it will handicap him for quite some time, particularly in contrast with Obama, who still has his media-airbrushed image of intelligence mostly intact. (Yes, I realize it is a bit of a facade – but again, we’re talking images.) Perry’s rhetorical style and accent don’t really help matters. He will have a lot of work to do if he is to make up ground among the college-educated white voters that swung to Obama in 2008, especially in northern states (he’d start at a large disadvantage in the polling), and any fresh gaffe in the fall of 2012 would likely doom him in a way it wouldn’t doom others. Unfortunately, he’s a distinct underdog, in my estimation.

Mitt Romney’s case for electability starts with the fact that he runs well ahead of the previous three candidates when matched up against Obama. That’s not nothing. He also has the most impressive electoral results. However, the Mitt Romney that won in Massachusetts is long gone: it is hard to see how he has any special appeal to centrists any longer, given his transparent shifts rightward, other than the fact that he’s obviously qualified for the job. Nor does he rouse any particular passions on the part of conservatives, for the same reason. The Obama campaign is fully prepared to exploit his vulnerabilities on inauthenticity and his “Wall Street” background (yes, I realize that Bain Capital is very different from the banking industry, and that Newt Gingrich was absolutely wrong to try to attack on that, but most people do not). Given these weaknesses, I can’t see Romney being able to grow much beyond his current numbers vs. Obama, which means their matchup won’t be much better than a brutal slog of a toss-up all the way to election day.

For me, Rick Santorum is a hard candidate to evaluate. There isn’t much in the way of polling of the Santorum vs. Obama race, with the exception of Pennsylvania where he performs approximately the same as Romney, maybe a couple points worse. His two state-wide wins in Pennsylvania are great, but his huge loss cancels them out. He does have a fairly right-wing image, and the fact that he talks more than usual about social issues (sometimes in blunt terms that give the MSM the vapors) might tend to exacerbate this, as the media, for whatever reason, tends to equate social conservatism as somehow less “mainstream” than economic conservatism. (Yes, this is BS, but you know how the media can get…) In addition, his attention to social issues might cause him to seem a bit out of step with the economic worries of the times, although he does connect the two fairly well. His major strength is that what you see is what you get with him – with the exception of a minor flap regarding his residence and kids’ schooling, there doesn’t seem to be much in the way of particular vulnerabilities for Obama to attack here. He’s not the most inspiring figure, and might even be a little bit dour at times, but it seems to me Obama will pretty much have to stick to the issues and his record when facing him, which in itself is a big win for us. What does this all add up to? Maybe a decent chance? I suspect so, but I must admit that my estimation of him is much more speculative than the others.

This brings me to Jon Huntsman. I’ve been defending him a bit on RedState, but I will admit that he wouldn’t be my first choice if I were choosing the president. That said, I do think he is the most electable candidate that we have. There are really two big reasons for this:

1) He’s well-equipped to win swing voters.

Both stylistically and in terms of his personal history, he comes across as less partisan than usual.  He’s clearly qualified and competent. All of these qualities, which are largely independent of his actual policy positions, are ones that swing voters value, and as I read comments on other blogs (eg, Ross Douthat’s and Rod Dreher’s), I’ve seen ample evidence that he has already begun to attract such support. (I’m not alone in this: see EE’s statements about Huntsman here.  We can also look at his 80% win in 2008 as evidence that he’s able to appeal broadly.) Will some of it fade away once the Obama machine gets going? Probably. But it’s vastly easier to start with a positive impression among swing voters and then try to keep them, than it is to start out with a negative impression and try to win them.

2) He’s inoculated from a lot of potential attacks.

Pretty much all of the insinuations about personality are out, due to his ambassadorship.  His record as governor is pretty much unassailable by Obama. (As a quick comparison, Perry has a good record, too, but since Texas is a poorer state there are a lot more bad statistics that can be cherry-picked.) Even the knocks on his wealthy status can be deflected by noting that his business experience is not in the much-demonized financial sector, and that he has a plan that ends the Too Big To Fail problem, unlike
Obama.  Democrats would be left with just the standard policy playbook.

What are Huntsman’s electoral downsides? He doesn’t have a great relationship with the conservative base right now. I suspect this will change as more conservatives take a good look at his platform. If it doesn’t, he won’t get the nomination anyway, so it’s not worth worrying about too much. It’s doubtful that he’d ever get the base extremely fired up for him, but if enough attack ads get the base fired up against Obama, that’s almost as good.  Another concern is that we don’t yet know how well he’d do parrying attacks, since nobody has bothered to criticize his proposals yet, but this is another thing we’ll learn about should he gain viability in the primaries. The last electoral knock on him that I can think of is that he’s not charismatic. This is quite true: stylistically, I view Huntsman as akin to George H. W. Bush* – similar resumes, more wonkish than populist or ideological, steady and respected but not beloved. My feeling is that after 4 years of a not-particularly-successful celebrity president, most Americans are ready for someone kind of boring. Don’t you think a low-drama competence would sound nice right about now?

(*: Before you object that GHWB lost: he had Ross Perot spoiling things, and a recession that was pinned on him. If it were a Democratic recession instead, and he was going up against Clinton one-on-one, I think he wins pretty comfortably despite Clinton’s decided charisma advantage. And before you object that GHWB compromised with Democrats and raised taxes, note that I’m not trying to make a policy comparison here. I think Huntsman is more conservative than GHWB, and would probably have a GOP congress to boot.)

Out of all the candidates, I think Huntsman is the only one that has a decent shot at breaking through the polarization and winning with more than 51%. If conservatives are able to get over the initial snub that he gave them and allow him a chance to patch things up with them, he would be a nominee with a platform that’s at least acceptable to conservatives who can nevertheless be appealing to moderate voters and be immune from counterattack – that’s a good recipe for a victory.

COMMENTS

  • texastaxpayer

    Having read now both your diaries on this subject my conclusion, you have learned nothing from history. Electability is the argument of failed candidates and their supporters. Look at the list of recent presidents who actually won election. Nixon,Carter,Regan,Bush,Clinton,Bush and finally Obama. None of these candidates ran as centrist. Regan in fact we were told could not win much like we hear with Perry now. Carter and Bush’41 were ejected from office for being squishies. Anyone with any electoral experience at all knows or should know that Americans favor the bright and bold. We do not vote for moderate, pandering squishies when given an alternative. I can’t believe that just four years after the Mccain fiasco we are hearing the exact same arguments laid out again. In 2008 the exact same sources where used as evidence. Mccain polls higher with independents, Mccain can unite the establishment and grass roots, Americans aren’t interested in partisans. Guess what Americans voted for an unabashed partisan in great numbers. Romney is a loser plain and simple. If you people fall for Mccain 2.0 I swear you had better ban me now because I will be insufferable. How many people here honestly in there heart of hearts believe Perry would not be the best president. How many people out there are either themselves or know someone who would support Perry “but he just can’t win now, he was made to many gaffes”? What would happen if all those people instead of holding thief noses and voting Romney or Gingrich closed their eyes, said a quiet prayer and voted Perry? Like Regan in 1980 Perry can win. He has the best record and most credibility against Obama. You want this election to be about scandals, flip flops, character or experience choose anyone but Perry. You want this election to be about economics, record and.achievements choose Perry. We can only win one of those debates and here’s a hint, its economics.
    Let me close by saying you can take your elitist comments about my accent and shove them up your smug a$$. Who the hell are you to judge Perry, me or anyone else by their accent and mannerisms? The fact that you see a southern accent as a sign of inferior intelligence demonstrates an ignorance on your part that is hard to forgive. Not only is your assertion demonstrably false its also a sign of bigotry that would not be tolerated against other groups such as blacks or women. I for one am deeply insulted and I hope every other southerner here takes notice as well.

  • dpmapper

    I personally like southern accents, particularly Georgia ones. But I think it’s true that there are some northerners who hear a drawl and subconsciously associate it with hayseeds. I strongly suspect it’s one of the reasons that GWB’s reputation stuck to him so tightly. Sorry to state it plainly like that, but this is no different than speculating about whether someone’s religion, gender, or race might help or hurt them.

    Obama is a strong liberal, no doubt. But his reputation in the media and thus among a lot of voters was one of moderation. (Think of his 2004 One America speech.) I kept trying to tell my friends that Obama was a flaming liberal back in 2008 but they were swayed by his rhetoric and the media conventional wisdom into believing otherwise. Clinton totally ran as a centrist, by the way; I’m not sure what you’re thinking there. George W Bush called his conservatism “compassionate” in an effort to make it sound softer, and touted the fact that he was able to work well with Dem legislators in Texas.

    Regarding the “McCain lost, therefore electability arguments are bunk” point, let me respond with the following points:
    1) McCain wasn’t nominated because Romney, Thompson, et al were not electable. Certainly, they did not have any of the deficiencies of, say, a Gingrich.
    2) Are you sure that McCain *wasn’t* the most electable? Maybe Romney ’08 loses even worse.
    3) The idea that you don’t need to appeal to swing voters is silly. The trick to appealing to mushy swing voters is to have as conservative a platform as possible while at the same time making it not sound like it’s too different from what they think they believe. If you have a reputation for being “far right” (whatever that means) it makes it harder to convince them to join you than if you have a reputation for being “reasonable” or “moderate” (whatever that means), even if you have the exact same platform. Style matters.

    Reagan was seen as quite conservative, no doubt. But he was the Great Communicator, and got a lot of Americans to go along with him, because he was able to make his case to the American people with respect, gentle logic, and a natural grace. I hate to break it to you, but we don’t have a Reagan among our candidates right now. If we did, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

  • lizzie

    disclosure: in case you do not know me – the disillusioned fiscal conservative reigistered as a dem in NYC because they used to have primaries. 59, highly educated, including a 2004 grad course in History of the Presidency where I wrote my paper on Calvin Coolidge. Only time I ever volunteered for a campaign was 2004, for John Edwards (before anyone knew he was a cheat), and one of the reasons why I wrote about Cooldige after that.

    I also did grad work in gerrymandering in 2004, and spent a LOT of time in 2008 analyzing the ethno-religious maps of America and most states, not just the swing states. When I still had a career, I spent ten years forecasting the US economy for a key intermediate-goods manufacturing sector that also depended on exports until 2000.

    Have been protest voting GOP since 2006, which is difficult because I guess I am real Libertarian when it comes to what the GOP calls social issues. While I still had a career 1976-2002, I was too busy to pay close attention to politics.

    Voter turnout.
    In 2008, average population for a Congressional District was 652,000, and I tend to assume maybe 30% are under 18 or otherwise ineligible to vote, which, rounding off, leaves us with 450,000 in 2008 (and 500,000 in 2012) being 100% voter participation rate.

    In 2008, the highest voter participation in ANY CD was Bachmann’s MN6 with 404,231 votes in a 3-way contest.
    The lowest, except for one in Los Angeles, was NY9, Anthony Weiner with 111,169 votes. (Some majority-minority CDs never have a GOP candidate and thus no vote.)

    My point? Voter enthusiasm IS important.
    In 2008, NYC total registered voter participation was 50% because so many voters had zero enthusiasm in what was supposed to be an historic election.
    Giuliani won NYC in 1992 because of enthusiasm for leadership to finally stop the crime that had been depopulating NYC since 1967.

    In 2008, McCain actually won the two suburban counties with the highest concentration of Jewish voters (13% of NYS electorate)
    I mention this because, while Israel is never a #1 issue, Obama’s 2008 campaign made it a top 3 issue for me (the deficit and debt are always my top 2) for the first time. I know reliably liberal dem voters who just did not vote for Obama, but did vote down ticket. We are the most reliable high voting participation segment in the USA, having a long history of understanding that it is a PRIVILEGE to be able to vote.

    Everyone always says the Jewish vote is only important in FL, maybe PA and OH. 13% in NY is huge by comparison and why Reagan won NY in 1980. New Jersey and Connecticut are also a factor for 2012. Open Senate seats will drive turnout, and, it is not that we want the USA to do anything more than respect Israel as a reliable ally with shared values, and for the President to NOT make building permits in Jerusalem into a major diplomatic incident in order to effect regime change in Israel, which is what Obama did in March 2010, and again this summer.

    I could not find a complete list of voting data by CD for the USA, but I do know how surprisingly contentious it was for NY dems who had never had to campaign before, and, if the NY and national GOP had been paying attention, even more surprising.

    Obama can NOT even come into New York to campaign for anyone. Negative coattails.

    So, when you talk about electability, you need to know that New York is in play as a swing state because, in addition to the 13% Jewish vote, NY has 49% Catholics, and 19% Evangelicals, and those latter two groups are unhappy at how Cuomo forced the State Senate to pass same sex marriage. It was the deciding factor in Bob Turner’s special election win in NY9 a few months ago.

    Romney, Perry, Gingrich, and Huntsman all know New York is in play.
    None of the other GOP candidates have a chance, because, despite the uneasiness over same sex marriage, New Yorkers are not obsessive about abortion, except for the Hispanic Evangelicals I have met since I moved to The Bronx, but they probably want jobs even more.

    One more factor in electability – that southern accent? Americans love it , especially when accompanied by that Yes, ma’am and No, sir.

    I had no problem voting for Gore in 2000 or Kerry in 2004, but, since then, Obama’s postmodern transnational multiculturalism, and absence of a spine on ANY issue made me realize that leadership is what counts, and part of what defines leadership is knowing that your Commander in Chief is willing to die for America, and Americans will follow that CinC into the line of fire, on any issue of importance.
    On that metric, Romney loses. Like Obama, I guess Romney would risk his life for his family, but not anything else.

    btw, it was George Will who recently wrote that Perry and Huntsman were the two candidates that the GOP should be looking at.

    The GOP has a natural constituency with Hispanic voters that is being blown with the obsession over illegal Mexicans. Minorities have been hit the hardest in this jobs depression.

    One very key factor is that 2012 voter turnout may depend on US Senate contests, and the Democrats have every intention of using the 2010 New York theme of “protecting women’s reproductive rights” as a major theme, as a distraction from the housing crisis, jobs anemia, dysfunctional congress, out-of-control spending, Obamacare, and the DOUBLE DEFICITS: annual trade deficit and accumulated DEBT.

    I have to end now.

    but thanks for food for thought. Hope I have added some points on electability.

    I have to decide before March 1 whether to change my legal residence from New York to Mass, because I am in a personal housing dilemma thanks to Dodd-Frank, and absence of confidence in general.
    I can not decide if my vote will count more for the presidency in New York, or for Scott Brown for Senate in Mass (I am certain Obama will win Vermont
    in the general, but can only win Mass on Warren’s reverse coattails. No one likes Romneycare five years later, so no way can Romney win Massachusetts in the general.)

    ps. Tom Coburn is now my favorite US Senator. All the others are gone or retiring.

    I still think Rick Perry is overcoming that ‘another Texas gov dumber than W stereotype’, especially since the Dec 3 Huckabee Forum. Today, RealClearWorld posted their BEST of 2011, and one of the five was Perry’s Sept 15, 2011 op-ed in the Jerusalem Post, on Palestinian statehood.
    That op-ed and his 9/20 speech in NYC forced Obama to change HIS speech at the UN.

    Perry, Gingrich, Huntsman are the electable ones.
    with good VPs, although I still prefer Newt as Perry’s Sec State.

  • texastaxpayer

    First on the accent response. It is an often repeated justification for people who use this argument to hide behind others *voters in the northeast or west coast states* to justify using this line of attack. I will point you to the electoral map from 88 on to call BS. Northeastern and west coast states do not vote Republican period. Neither Mitt Romney nor john Huntsman will change that trend. Further it is highly improbable to suggest that this ignorant argument doesn’t ring true with you or you wouldn’t use it. Lastly the GOP candidates is not going to win liberals over regardless of their accent or mannerisms to suggest otherwise is foolish in the extreme. Finally I take great offense as an educated Texan, I doubt you would say voters will assume Cain is less intelligent because he is a blackman or that Bauchman is less electable because she is female. But somehow the illiterate southerner is a sterotype you are perfectly comfortable reenforcing. I will just bet your thinking “but people believe it” what a shame. But I will leave your soft bigotry aside as it is your problem not mine. Just remember next time you fill up your car the gas is probably from us “hicks and hayseeds” down here in Texas. I hope you find that comforting. You might also like to know that PC of yours is running an operating system we wrote as well if its greater than windows Vista. Probably don’t want to trust to many of your household chemicals, or buy a dell Compaq or HP computer. You probably want to cross 7-11, JCPenney, EBAY, Blockbuster, Radioshack,Capitol One, TI and Raytheon of your list of managed by intelligent executives as they are all based out of Texas now and I am fairly certain a great many of their executives speak with Texas accents the horror. I think you will agree that I have beaten this horse dead, made my point *I hope* so let’s move on. No offence ment, none carried forward. Fair?
    I disagree with your analysis regarding independents completely and I will sight Ford,Mondale,Dole and of course Mccain. To suggest Mccain was the most electable is laughable. Consider his performance pre media hype. His campaign was effectively dead as proven by the interviews of him carry his own bags at the airports between campaign stops and his dismally horrible numbers leading up to super Tuesday. It wasn’t until the press convinced enough people like yourself that this argument of yours was the only way to overcome the bush deficits that people “held their noses” and voted Mccain. Dole in 96 same story, run as a centrist appeal to independents and the weakened Clinton will be defeated. How did that turn out? Mondale? Same playbook paint Regan as an extremist, run as a moderate centrist and booom. Just weeks before the election mondale was leading the “Polls” substantially. What happened? Regan won 49 states. Americans don’t like centrist squishes. They never have.
    As far as Regan being the great communicator, I would advise you to goto YouTube and watch the first mondale debate. Regan (God bless his conservative soul) had his a$$ handed to him. Having lived through the period myself Regan was portrayed as an out of touch, rightwing warmongering morron in the press. Sure we don’t have a Regan in the field. Hell even Regan wasn’t “Regan”.
    So let me finish this with a challenge. Give me one example that backs up your theory? Go back as far as you need to. When you realize there isn’t one will you please stop promoting the same media BS that has lost us a dozen elections? Pretty Please ??

  • dpmapper

    I guess we’ll agree to disagree on the accent question. But you do acknowledge that it’s a stereotype…

    Here’s a question for you. If you don’t think Perry gave a lot of people a ‘dumb’ impression during his first couple months, why did he go from having the lead to being at negative favorability among Republicans in such a short span?

    To answer your question, Clinton ran as a moderate “New Democrat”. I wouldn’t call GWB squishy, but he tried to appeal to moderates by calling himself a “compassionate conservative”. Reagan was portrayed as a conservative; I don’t deny that. But he was able to overcome the media bias and still appeal to moderate voters with his communication ability. One bad debate doesn’t change that fact.

    I supported Rubio over Crist, Toomey over Specter, and Lee over Bennett. I didn’t support O’Donnell over Castle or Angle over Lowden. What was the difference? Some conservatives can present an appealing face to moderate voters and some cannot!

  • texastaxpayer

    Seems you don’t want to take my challenge, don’t blame you would of course loose.

    Where you old enough to pay attention to either of clintons campaigns? Certainly his reelection was more running on his record as a somewhat successful administration is expected to do. But the democrat hallmarks where still there and certainly in the first one against Bush’41. Social justice, d@mn the rich, entitlement expansion, racial pandering. All of it. If you are trying to suggest Clinton put on a republican mirror campaign you either don’t have the facts or your dilusional. Clinton ran as a partisan democrat and ate George HW Bush’s lunch, who happened to be running as a centrist moderate BTW. Clinton also had a southern accent, Arkansas a border state of Texas in case you missed it.

    GWB my governor at the time ran has a right wing reformer pitting his record as governor of Texas against again the moderate centrist “I can work with republicans and get things done” Al Gore. The compassionate conservative bit was a differential from Buchanan who was challenging from his far right. If you remember the democrats tried.to paint GWB as an extremist wing nut. No luck.

    Same thing in 2004 versus John Kerry the moderate centrist (I work with republicans everyday) against the right wing extremist “stupid” Texan. GWB used his “Texas accent and mannerisms” to relate his record and viola wins again. John Edwards has southern accent BTW.

    Carter ran as a hardened democrat in 1976 win (southern accent Georgia)
    Carter as a moderate centrist in 1980 lost
    Mondale moderate centrist in 1984 lost (Minnesota)
    Dukakis moderate centrist in 1988 lost (Massachusetts)
    George HW Bush moderate centrist 1992 lost (remember how he bragged about working with the dems in congress? Pathetic)(Maine)
    Dole moderate centrist in 1996 lost (Kansas)
    Al gore moderate centrist in 2000 lost (before global warming) (Tennessee)
    John Kerry moderate centrist in 2004 lost (Massachusetts)
    John “The Maverick” Mccain moderate centrist in 2008 lost(Arizona)
    Yeah it really looks like you are on to somethimg with this pandering to the moderates plan. Again feel free to go back as far as you need to to prove me wrong. Or you could just root for a conservative and give us a shot at winning this thing.

    Actually if you want to get down to the facts since 1976 Americans have had 3 presidents with southern accents that served a combined 20 years in office and three without that have served 19 years total.
    Guess I can really see how you back up that southern accent turns off voters thing.

  • dpmapper

    You’re right, I missed that. Thanks for the correction.

    I’m not so sure that Obama needs help to win Massachusetts, though… and Romneycare seems reasonably popular there, too.
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_MA_0921424.pdf
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_MA_0608.pdf
    Scott Brown still has a shot, though.

  • buddyp

    Re: it was George Will who recently wrote that Perry and Huntsman were the two candidates that the GOP should be looking at.

    Will’s wife is working for the Perry campaign as an adviser (See http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1111/For_columnist_Will_a_family_tie_to_Perry.html ), and Will has viciously attacked every other major candidate.

    Of course, it’s possible they both like Perry and think the other major candidates are all utterly awful and downright detestable, and that that’s why she’s working for Perry.

    But it’s at least very suspect. Quite possible he is at least biased and at worst deliberately doing his wife’s bidding.

  • dpmapper

    I think you’re the one who has his categories mixed up. Good luck with that.

  • westcoastpatriette

    And I just want to say that I appreciate your outburst, texas’, regarding the bigotry you detected in dpmappers references to Perry being a dumb southerner. While I wasn’t as offended as you by mapper’s analysis, I disagree with him vehemently regarding the need to appeal to moderates to win elections. Also disagree with his thinking regarding why Perry took a dive in polling shortly after he entered the race but won’t elaborate about that right now.

    Back to the slurs against southerners. I am starting to share some of that resentment as I hear so many people mock my state and talk about us as if we are all elitist lefties. We aren’t and I am not sure how we have sunk so low or veered so far to the left, but I hate it and feel fairly powerless to change it.

    Just thought I would throw in my half cent.

  • texastaxpayer

    Kerry ran against GWB in 2004 genius as I pointed out above. Carter ran as a partisan democrat in 1976. Reading comprehension just not your thing?

  • dpmapper

    Calling Kerry a moderate is wrong to begin with. Calling Kerry a moderate at the same time you insist that Carter and Clinton ran as standard-issue partisan Democrats in ’76 and ’92 is utter foolishness.

    But you’re clearly not interested in changing your mind so I think I’m done responding to you.