Please welcome Dr. Barry Rubin, head of the Herzliya, Israel-based GLORIA Center, to the front page at RedState.
-Jeff
Tel Aviv, Israel — Israel didn’t want to attack the Gaza Strip from the ground or from the air. Hamas, which had long broken the ceasefire, canceled it altogether. Then it began large-scale attacks on Israel. This is a war of defense. And it is being conducted just 30 miles from here, Israel’s main city.
According to the just-released Israeli government statement on the offensive:
The objective of this stage is to destroy the terrorist infrastructure of the Hamas in the area of operation, while taking control of some of rocket launching area used by the Hamas, in order to greatly reduce the quantity of rockets fired at Israel and Israeli civilians.
The operation will…strike a direct and hard blow against the Hamas while increasing the deterrent strength of the Israel Defense Forces, in order to bring about an improved and more stable security situation for residents of southern Israel over the long term.
Even as the 2006 war was continuing, the Israel Defense Force was evaluating the mistakes made in Lebanon—helicopters needed better short-range munitions, improved air-ground coordination, care in using tanks unsupported by infantry, and so on.
But contrary to the insistence of armchair strategists now, it would not be easy to seize control of all the Gaza Strip and govern it for an extended period of time. Hamas is not going to go away. International support for Israel is limited. Fatah and the Palestinian Authority will not react strongly to try to take Gaza back for itself. There are about one million people in the Gaza Strip and Hamas will make every attempt to ensure there are civilian casualties—and pretend there are even more.
So “total victory” is not easy, if it is even possible. The irony is that Israeli policy is based on the idea that there is no military solution to these issues. But since there is no diplomatic solution either, force must be used to protect Israel and its citizens.
It should be remembered that Israel withdrew completely from the Gaza Strip, dismantled all settlements, and wished the Palestinians good luck. The Palestinian Authority (PA) was not up to the challenge. It could and would not change its corrupt and incompetent ways. U.S. policy insisted that Hamas be allowed to run in the elections, even though it did not meet the standard of accepting the 1993 Israel-PLO agreement. Hamas won.
But Hamas invoked the radical Islamist policy of “one man, one vote, one time.” It staged a coup and kicked out its PA and Fatah rivals. Rather than focusing on economic development or even maintaining peace to build up its own power, Hamas pursued its strategy of permanent war against Israel. Children’s programs taught the kiddies that they should grow up to be suicide bombers and kill Jews. Hamas soldiers, or their junior allies, fired rockets and mortars at Israel. And of course Hamas staged a cross-border raid and kidnapped an Israeli soldier.
In spite of this, many in the West think Israel has some kind of choice in this matter, that diplomacy was an option, that Hamas could be reasoned with. Those people have clearly never heard a Hamas leader speak or read anything on the group’s Arabic-language websites. In a real sense, Hamas is more extreme than Usama bin Ladin, who periodically offers his enemy the chance to repent. Hamas’s goal is genocidal.
This has nothing to do with being dovish or hawkish, left or right. For those who are the biggest peaceniks—and this is true in Israel—know that Hamas must be defeated if Israel is ever to make peace with the PA. Even the PA knows it, and that’s what they say in private, no matter what they say in public.
The offensive is only going to last so long. It would be nice to believe that Hamas will be overthrown, less extreme Palestinians will take over, or Israel will just sit in the Gaza Strip for months or even years to come without any major problem. These are not real options.
Hamas wants nothing more than to be able to organize an underground to launch daily attacks on Israeli patrols going through the center of refugee camps. It should be remembered that, for better or worse, it was the Israeli military—not the politicians—who wanted to withdraw from the Gaza Strip for tactical reasons. It was easier to hold a defensive line in strength than to play into Hamas’s strong points by trying to control all the territory.
Clearly, this didn’t take into account the rockets but it is easy to think that if Israeli forces had been in the Gaza Strip every day since the withdrawal, Israeli casualties would have been a lot higher while Fatah and Hamas would be fighting side to side against Israel, and international diplomacy would have been far more hostile to Israel.
No one should have any illusions that this conflict is going to go away. The peace process era, 1993-2000, taught us that Iran, Syria, Hamas, Hizballah, and radical Islamist groups meant what they said. They will never accept peace with Israel. Israel will be involved in a struggle with these extremist groups for decades.
Yet that does not mean Israel cannot—and does not—prevail. It prevails by maintaining good lives for its citizens, developing its economy, and raising living standards, progressing in technology and science and medicine.
In this context, Israel will not listen to those many who counsel it to commit suicide, but it also has no illusions of a victory, of a war that will end all wars. And in a real sense that is Israel’s true strength: it is not naïve about either concessions or force. If you have realistic expectations, if you aren’t disappointed, then you never give up.
Often, nowadays, it seems as if all history is being rewritten when it comes to Israel. In World War Two, allied air forces carpet-bombed cities even though there were no military bases in civilian areas. In France alone, tens of thousands of civilians were killed by allied bombs that fell on their intended targets.
Even the Nazis didn’t put ammunition dumps in houses and use human shields. And up until now the blame for doing so would fall on those who deliberately and cynically sought to create civilian casualties in order to gain support for themselves
Up until now, a country whose neighbor fired across the border at its people and even staged cross-border raids had the right of self-defense.
Up until now, there has been a capability of understanding which group is inciting hatred, trying to turn children into robotic terrorists, calling for the extermination of another people, and committing aggression.
Many people, many journalists, many governments, and even many intellectuals still understand the most basic principles of right and wrong as well as of the real world. Unfortunately, too many don’t or at least don’t when Israel is the target.
Finally, it is of the greatest importance to understand that this is not an issue of Gaza or of Israel alone. The great issue of our era, of our remaining lifetimes, is the battle between radical Islamism—whether using the tactic of terrorism or not—and the rest of the world. To isolate this question as merely something about Israel is to misunderstand everything important about the world today.
Barry Rubin is director of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center and editor of the Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA) Journal. His latest books are The Israel-Arab Reader (seventh edition), with Walter Laqueur (Viking-Penguin); the paperback edition of The Truth About Syria (Palgrave-Macmillan); A Chronological History of Terrorism, with Judy Colp Rubin, (Sharpe); and The Long War for Freedom: The Arab Struggle for Democracy in the Middle East (Wiley). To read and subscribe to MERIA and other GLORIA Center publications or to order books, visit http://www.gloriacenter.org.

Mr. Rubin- So many here at RedState support Israel
Scope Saturday, January 3rd at 6:21PM EST (link)I am more than saddened that too many are asking Israel to back down, and for a cease fire. I am with the Israelites all the way. The violence with the Islamofacists that has been in play for so very many years must stop. I pray for the Israeli ground troops that are within the Gaza border as we speak. Godspeed!
When will enough be enough ?
Kenny Solomon Saturday, January 3rd at 7:35PM EST (link)Welcome to RedState, Dr. Rubin. You might find a few interesting and differing opinions from many people here.
As for me, I’m no longer caring about political games, small-to-medium scale problems, recent history of abject appeasement or anything else.
Long before The State Of Israel came into being, the Muslim/Islam world has wanted nothing more than the elimination of the Jewish people and subjugation/elimination of so-called infidels.
Islam has as part of it’s deity that non-believers are to be either completely subjugated or completely eliminated. The peace-loving people have taken that to heart and act on it, with Israel, Jews, Americans and the Western world as their targets.
The time has come to realize that there is an endgame to Islam and they are not going to stop until the last of them are no longer breathing.
With this latest offensive push, the minute that it appears that Israel is really winning in Gaza, a combination of Iran, Syria and even Russia will quite probably help Hamas even more than they are now with whatever Hamas wants.
If they’re nuts enough (and I know they are), I also wouldn’t put it past those maniacs to send over a nuke or other WMD and try to make it look like Israel did the deed by taking out their own (Gaza).
There should be no more talking, no more appeasing, no more surgical strikes, no more warnings and if it’s to start with Gaza and Hamas, then so be it.
The only thing the peace-loving religion understands is violence at it’s extreme. Israel needs to stop bringing a dull knife to a gunfight.
Hamas launches one rocket, Israel needs to drop a square kilometer of Gaza to rubble. They launch a second, Israel takes an entire neighborhood and reduces it to no more than dust.
Send a message to Islam right now: Nothing and I mean NOTHING in Gaza should be left standing more than 12 inches off ground level and if anything moves, drop it like a stone. After that, the next ‘anything’ that happens to Israel, or if ‘an event’ happens here in the USA, then Mecca goes bye-bye.
No Hawaii/Chicago/Kenya or wherever-he’s-from ‘we can talk things out’ is ever going to stop the problem either.
Yes, I am fully aware of the implications of such a strategy. So are the Muslims and they want this to become a full-blown, world-wide holy war ; They’re doing everything they can to start it too. Israel and The USA should end it before it ever gets going.
Of course you can have my guns……. Bullets first.
I didn’t say rounds, shells or magazines……
I said bullets first.
You go too far sir
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 7:46PM EST (link)you said: “The time has come to realize that there is an endgame to Islam and they are not going to stop until the last of them are no longer breathing.”
this is simply untrue. There are many Muslims who are peace loving people. Look at those in the United States. The people you see running a corner store, or working for the police, or in business. I do not think they must be killed, do you?
People have to understand that radical Islam is a clear and present danger. they also have to realize that these people abroad have been raised from children to hate, this has to affect them. they are are not allowed to see free debate, they have given false news just like the Russians were under Communism. Many of these people have been psychologically warped, and this could have been done in the name of any religion or cause.
I am not hear to defend the Islamic faith, but I am here to defend decency. We and Israel are right to do what it takes to protect lives, but we do not need to kill all Muslims. If we did that, we would have created the greatest holocaust of all.
Let’s simmer down a bit, war is hell, but men still have to be human.
Molon Labe!
Look, I'm sorry but.......
Kenny Solomon Saturday, January 3rd at 7:55PM EST (link)If these peace-loving people will stop at nothing, why give them the chance?
They put their own people between them and their weapons, inside their rocket launching sites, take over hospitals as ammo dumps…….. Collateral damage is about the sickest term ever been invented and it’s also the single last thing I want, but that what this is coming down to and it’s coming quicker than many people realize.
If I’ve stepped over the line by calling something as I see it to be, then I’ll take whatever is coming my way.
Of course you can have my guns……. Bullets first.
I didn’t say rounds, shells or magazines……
I said bullets first.
Kenny, I suggest you listen to Doc on this one
bs Saturday, January 3rd at 8:05PM EST (link)There is a difference between jihadists and Muslims. Not all Muslims support the kind of terror that is raining down on Israel. There are even those out there who have spoken out against the actions of Hamas.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
OK, bs... I hear ya. I'll calm down, but it's not going to be easy.
Kenny Solomon Saturday, January 3rd at 8:12PM EST (link)One thing though….. I’m looking at this in a different light than allot of people here and not because I’m Jewish either.
I’ve seen this coming for years.
Watching videos of the anti-Israel/death to America protests here in Florida, little kids…. 6 year-olds and younger are chanting deadly things and they have real hatred in their eyes…. I help protect these kids in their schools too…… I recognized a few of the people at the last rally in Ft. Lauderdale…. one is a teacher in the school system.
The first time something happens here in the USA, I hope to God the real crazies don’t start taking people out in the streets…. and I mean that sincerely. I’m armed and will defend my home, and myself, but I’m not going to start a thing.
OK, I’m done on this, unless anybody else wants to take me to the woodshed.
Of course you can have my guns……. Bullets first.
I didn’t say rounds, shells or magazines……
I said bullets first.
Sorry, Kenny, but you're over-reaching
Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Saturday, January 3rd at 8:52PM EST (link)“They put their own people between them and their weapons, inside their rocket launching sites, take over hospitals as ammo dumps……..”
If you are referring to Hamas, well that’s one thing. If you are referring to Muslims generally (a refutation of which began the tangent to which the quoted portion replied) then you have simply taken leave of your senses.
I’m pretty sure that my boss had nothing to do with placing rocket launchers in the burbs. I’m pretty sure that the young lady I worked with when I waited tables in undergrad had nothing to do with suicide bombing. I’m damned sure that the vast and overwhelming majority of American muslims you will ever meet are simply regular people, trying to get by in life, who view divinity differently than you do.
I am also Jewish. There are plenty of examples of our people and the disciples of Mohammed living in peace. It has happened and it will happen again. Yes, much blood must be shed but if you deal in absolutes you will simply never know peace.
I’m a lying troll.
Well Doc I am going to jump in this conversation and ask you...
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 8:32PM EST (link)If they are so peace loving in the United States why are there large swaths of Somali’s leaving to go fight Jihad why are there the Ft. Dix 6? Why were there 19 highjackers? If you think for one moment that Islam is not the problem than you are not being honest here. I say hey yeah the Crusades in the name of Christ was exactly the same and guess what they had a reformation and came out of the middle ages I do not believe that axis has been reached in these United States nor across the world.
You need only look at the protestors in front of the Israeli Embassies here and around the world or those down in Florida calling for the Jews to go back to the ovens…..are there “moderate” muslims? hell yes BUT they are far and few between my friend and until they are the majority than the entire religion must be viewed as being a participant in the chaos that reigns. Oh and while Kenny is a Jew I am not and this is my opinion and what I have viewed since the 70’s and the Olympic athletes being slaughtered…..but of course WE know that it has been since the middle ages that muslims have hated Jews.
I get they hate us…envy is a terrible sin and the world at large is consumed by it but a small amount of people such as Jews should be HATED with very depths of EVIL there is nothing to account for it except the religious teachings of Islam!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
He didn't say they *all* were "peace-loving"
bs Saturday, January 3rd at 8:41PM EST (link)He said “There are many…“. That doesn’t imply 100%. Heck, I don’t know that it even implies 10%.
Do you think the crap you read (if you dare) on DKos indicates that all Leftists are like them? Of course not. Sweeping generalizations are just that - generalizations - and rarely do they fully represent the population at which they are aimed.
I suggest those who call for the elimination of Islam cool their jets…
Decorum is fo’ suckas
Well said
Reaper0Bot0 (formerly Han_Pritcher) Saturday, January 3rd at 8:47PM EST (link)And though I doubt it matters much hereabouts, I agree with you completely.
I’m a lying troll.
it matters, we all matter -nt
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 9:06PM EST (link)nt
Molon Labe!
Dude I read dkos I wouldn't taint my brain that way :-)
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 9:03PM EST (link)I would give you the 10 percent and in that I believe I can stand on my sweeping generalization. I work with Muslims and I have thought if we were to really get into a battle of end of earth proportations would they stand with America or Islam I have to say I believe (I like these people) they would stand with Islam and the desires of Mohammad for total world domination!
I will say it again it is my opinion and I do not think eveytime I talk to them about it BUT I don’t believe they would stand with America. One of the newer guys who is a hardcore leftist ie: WE did 9-11 ourselves kinda guys from MI married a Muslim who came here from the Middle East and lived in Dearborn started to wear her hijab AFTER 9-11 to see what people would say or how they would look at her and to be honest prior to 9-11 I wouldn’t have paid anyone wearing a hijab and or the other clothing of the middle east a moment’s attention and now I pay them all attention.
I will tell you the sites I read are MEMRI, The Jawa Report, Isreallycool, Ace of Spades and a slew of Middle Eastern sites to get a round about view of what is going on so I do not just generalize anything. OBTW not calling for the elimanation of Islam but I am calling for a reformation of it or it shall always be viewed by me as it is today!
I live right near the Islamic Academy here in VA and they have had some “issues” with the books they teach and the wording of Jews as pigs and that is just this Academy how many more do you think there are around the US that are teaching the same thing. Do you think it is because they are in the US that they somehow are being taught differently than as if they are in the middle east? THEY ARE NOT!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
Thus my qualifier :-)
bs Saturday, January 3rd at 9:11PM EST (link)Nonetheless…. if nothing else, my advice to you and whoever else is more or less to preserve your Redstate existence. I’m no moderator, but I do know a few… and they frown upon implications of genocide.
Plus, I agree with Doc.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
Hey bs please email me because I would like to address the word...
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 9:23PM EST (link)genocide with you, thanks!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
You know...
bs Saturday, January 3rd at 9:30PM EST (link)…I just went back and reread Kenny’s original post, and it said something different than I thought it did when I originally read it. I read “The time has come to realize that there is an endgame to Islam and they are not going to stop until the last of them are no longer breathing.” to mean “the last of the Muslims”. It didn’t.
I withdraw that comment. I apologize.. But I do think we need to be careful about how we discuss this topic.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
kewl!....nt
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 9:31PM EST (link)….
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
hold on bs, don't go wobbly on me now
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 9:46PM EST (link)of course it did not say “it is not going to stop until all muslims are eliminated”. It said the Islamic doctrine of subjagation and murder will not be stopped until all Muslims are eliminated. That is how I read it, and that is what i objected to
Molon Labe!
I still agree with you in principal
bs Saturday, January 3rd at 9:50PM EST (link)But I don’t find a direct quote that implies a call for what you’re saying….I originally thought I saw it, but when I reread, it doesn’t just jump right out. Could you quote it for me?
I understand strong emotion on this from Kenny or any other Jewish person. My wife used to work for a Jewish Community Center, so we have had a lot of Jewish and Israeli friends in the past - whose friends and family have spent a lot of time in Israel. We/they have to be careful about how solutions to the problem are proposed.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
ok, i added more text in case I am missing something
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 9:55PM EST (link)Kenny wrote:
“Islam has as part of it’s deity that non-believers are to be either completely subjugated or completely eliminated. The peace-loving people have taken that to heart and act on it, with Israel, Jews, Americans and the Western world as their targets.
The time has come to realize that there is an endgame to Islam and they are not going to stop until the last of them are no longer breathing.”
to me that means Muslims believe in the subjudation of all non believers or their death, and that belief will not stop until all Muslims are no longer breathing. If you think I am missing something feel free to spell it out. And Kenny would do well to honestly say what he meant by this. It is ok to go off half cocked, I have done this, I am not calling kenny out or anything, I just responded to a post. But I think I know what it means, if Kenny wants to clarify, that would be welcome.
Molon Labe!
That last sentence...
bs Saturday, January 3rd at 10:05PM EST (link)I now read to mean “they are not going to stop until the last of the Israelis are no longer breathing”
But if you read down farther, he suggests some pretty heavy-duty retaliation against Hamas, and I can’t say as I necessarily disagree, but eventually there IS a point where they may be going too far. That’s where I think we have to be careful. However, right now, with today’s situation in Gaza, they have not reached that point, despite what the moonbats claim.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
ok, no worries bs
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 10:11PM EST (link)I have read it many times, and to me it clearly states that Muslims/Islam will continue to believe in murder/subjagation of infidels until the last Muslim is dead.
I think Kenny could/should explain it clearly for us. either way, I don’t think all Muslims think all Israelis should be dead. And again, he did not mention Israel in that text, it was a comment about the Islamic religion and all non believers. Again, this is my interpretation, but I think most would agree with this analysis. this is not to say I am not open to the idea I could be wrong.
anyway, I have said my piece here, if the words are offensive to the site, the site members can make that known, I just gave my immediate response. No ill will to kenny or anyone else, war is hell and does cause us to get a bit peeved.
Molon Labe!
I didn't go off half-cocked, I went fully loaded, one in the chamber, safety off.
Kenny Solomon Saturday, January 3rd at 10:29PM EST (link)Doc:
I probably shouldn’t have opened my big fat mouth before, spoke my mind without even remotely considering that I would start a real mess that could (and probably should) get me kicked off here, I was going to stay out of this….. unless asked a direct question.
Take this as you may…. I specifically meant and fully believe that it’s come to the point where the Muslims/Islamists will keep hating and killing until the very last one of them is gone, OR …….(something I didn’t state, because it has zero chance of happening)……… that their religion itself is dismantled FROM WITHIN and restructured without the death-cult properties.
Peeved…. me? Why should I be peeved?…. Just because I see “my people” doing it again…….. going in not to really put a stop anything, but just to kick the dirt under the rug for a few more months until their next election of appeasers, etc.
I’d better shut up now.
Of course you can have my guns……. Bullets first.
I didn’t say rounds, shells or magazines……
I said bullets first.
Well I figured you meant what you said
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 10:41PM EST (link)I did use the word “peeved” as understatement. You will not get kicked off because of anything I said, we all speak and read English here. Your reaction is how I felt on 9/11, not exactly the same way, but I did want some payback.
I hope you are not kicked off for saying what you believe. As I said in the first response, we all need to simmer down, if we are clear headed, we will fight the enemy even more effectively.
Molon Labe!
give them a chance
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 11:12PM EST (link)they just started the ground invasion. they know “world opinion” is against them, but they still are going for it. I know, and you know, it is not a normal war. No matter how much damage the IDF does to Hamas, the Arab world, and probably Europe, will say Hamas won when the Israelis leave. But let’s give them a chance, these Israelis know a lot more about the area than we do. They can never end all rocket attacks, but they can seriously reduce Hamas and possibly leave an opening for Fatah.
I can’t tell you that Israel can defeat all her enemies, the land is surrounded. But Israel has defeated all enemies on the field of battle, and the USA is behind their actions. I am not Jewish, but I think 90 percent of Israeli supporters in this country are not Jewish. Right is right, and Israel is right to do whatever it takes to protect its people.
We did not need to exterminate the Germans, Spanish, Confederates, Italians, Japanese, and koreans to end the conflict. We simply had to destroy their will to fight. That is the key to war, something even America has fogotten, you have to destroy your enemies will to fight.
I am well aware the Islam issue is different. They do not wear uniforms, they do not fight by modern standards are war. It might be true we would have to kill them all to end all Islamic terror, but are we willing to do this? Would we be just to do this? We could kill everyone in Texas and the murder rate their would go to zero. But we are not willing to do this, we accept people will be murdered and most people will just live their lives.
Nixon said something when he resigned that always stuck with me.
“Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don’t win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.”
Molon Labe!
But we did have to drop a SECOND bomb on the Japanese, so sick was their death cult
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, January 3rd at 11:15PM EST (link)very similar to the palestinians
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
It is a good comparison
zuiko Saturday, January 3rd at 11:30PM EST (link)Both were fighting for their God and willing to throw away their lives if that’s what it took, and both were indoctrinated from birth to do so.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
thanks Z - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, January 3rd at 11:42PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
yeah
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 11:37PM EST (link)and if I remember correctly, that is all we had lol.
Molon Labe!
I've got to ask something and it's kind of important........because obviously and admittedly I don't have a clue.
Kenny Solomon Saturday, January 3rd at 11:50PM EST (link)There’s something around 1.3 billion Muslims on the planet. That’s billion with a b.
For the sake of arguments,and I’m being dragged screaming and kicking to such a low number, I’ll give in to whatever passes for conventional wisdom saying that only 10% of Muslims are the true believers who are working toward the 12th Imam coming back.
That runs out to approximately 130 million who deeply know in their souls that their God wants them to be who they are, hating, killing and worse.
How do you stop those 130 million, especially when you know they use the others - and many of the others are used willingly, to hide within and that many governments and even other people help them along ?
Think of this: A MINIMUM of 130 million real crazies are currently running around who will do ANYTHING to achieve their goals and they’re growing in number by the day.
130 million…. that’s just under half the current population of the USA.
That’s what’s facing the world right now, not just Israel and here at home in The USA.
I’m just a surveillance system tech, a decent golfer and a pretty good shot with my 9mm guns and haven’t got a clue about the world, so God help us if nobody else has a clue either.
Of course you can have my guns……. Bullets first.
I didn’t say rounds, shells or magazines……
I said bullets first.
How do we "stop" them
Mike gamecock DeVine Sunday, January 4th at 12:02AM EST (link)I favor the current strategy employed since 2001 that has worked in stopping more big holes from being produced in Manhattan
1-We rounded up 900+ visa overstays from muslim countries.
2-We tore down the Gorelick wall between CIA and FBI
3-We redfined the FBI mission to prevent attacks, rather than gather evidence and convict after attacks
4-We removed two of the three nations that openly harboured and terrorists
5-We surrounded on threee sides the third such country
6-We told Pakistan that they would stop their alliance with the Taliban
7-We removed the Taliban and the safe haven and now all tehy have is an unsafe haven
8-We helped the Iraqi people establish a bastion of liberty that drew in the enemies of freedom and killed tens of thousands of them, many of which would otehr wise have been in Atlanta sports club planning more 911s
9-We used aggresive interrogation against the captured and saved thousands of lives’
10-Iraqis and pakistanis are rejecting al qaeda and the tide of public opinion is with us which will lead to muslims being emboldened to clean up their own house.
more later
Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Gaza
zuiko Saturday, January 3rd at 11:33PM EST (link)That’s why they don’t leave. Under no circumstances should they turn the territory back over to the terrorists, no matter what kind of promises they make.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
i agree sir
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 11:38PM EST (link)I am not sure they do, but I agree. Two times is the charm.
Molon Labe!
Hey Doc
Leon H. Wolf Saturday, January 3rd at 11:43PM EST (link)Seems like you took sort of a hiatus for a little bit (or maybe I just didn’t notice you posting, which is possible) but it’s good to have you back.
————
They’re *illusions*, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money. Or candy!
thanks Leon
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 11:50PM EST (link)I did take a hiatus. I hope you had a great holiday and New Year
Molon Labe!
huge congrats on the Vandy bowl win! - nt
Mike gamecock DeVine Saturday, January 3rd at 11:51PM EST (link)Mike DeVine’s Examiner.com, Charlotte Observer and The Minority Report columns
“One man with courage makes a majority.” - Andrew Jackson
Thanks!
Leon H. Wolf Saturday, January 3rd at 11:54PM EST (link)Once every 50 years, we do manage to pull one out!
I may be overstating it since the sample size is admittedly only two at this point.
————
They’re *illusions*, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money. Or candy!
and this, at least in my opinion, does not
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 9:40PM EST (link)give the guest poster a true reflection of the site.
Molon Labe!
wow, are first argument Jaded!
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 8:53PM EST (link)first things first. I responded to a specific post that said all Muslims must be killed. It also said it was likely nukes would be involved in this incursion on one side or the other. It also said that Gaza should be reduced to rubble. It also said the next time there is an attack on Israel or the USA we should nuke Mecca.
This is not Little Green Footballs, this is RedState. I said the poster went too far. I also said that radical Islam should be fought, and the USA and Israel must do what they need to do to protect their citizens. I would suggest the Directors of this site would support my view, but that is neither here nor there. I am just a schmo here with no power, and I can say what I want, and you and Kenny can say what you want.
I never said that there are no dangerous Muslims in the United States. You can ask the FBI, they have a long list of people they have arrested and are monitoring. I also did not say Islam is not a problem. I in fact have said many times that Islam is a “war religion”, that is historical fact, not my opinion.
You point out anti-Jewish and even terrorists in the USA. Ok, well what about the other 7 million muslims in the USA? http://www.newsweek.com/id/168062
So your point seems to be that Islamic teaching creates the killers. I do not deny that. But that does not mean all Muslims are potential killers and need to be killed. In fact, I would say the decline of Islamic culture over the last thousand or so years played a part. their countries are run by dictators and most live in poverty. they are taught to blame others, not their leaders, this is a standard operating procedure for dictators.
In the end I am not sure what you are trying to say. I did not defend Islam and I am not ignorant of the fact that most Muslims are against Israel and the United States. Many of them think in ancient terms, their Sharia law is ancient and archaic. But I will be damned if I will support murder of innocents around the world. We fought Vietnamese who could be as inhumane as anyone in history, but if you go their today, they love Americans. The point is, wars CAN be won, we do not have to be murderers to be victors. comprende?
Molon Labe!
Its our first argument? I am sorry because I don't want to argue with you :-)
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 9:08PM EST (link)Surely you know that this war will NOT be won without mass casualties because I believe you are as old as I am and we have been here kinda like “climate change” cyclically…… OBTW I hardly think victory and winning the war equates with murder….comprende?
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
I will kowalski myself and say my mind will NOT be changed on this subject so.....
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 9:09PM EST (link)I will leave this thread to those who see some kind of peaceful solution….Good Luck to you!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
you are damning us with faint praise
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 9:48PM EST (link)no one here said there is a peaceful solution, one side argues for the killing of all Muslims in the world, the other argues for defeating the terrorists and their ideology.
Molon Labe!
actually i don't get your point
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 9:33PM EST (link)you are always welcome to jump in a discussion with me, but I truly don’t get your grievance. In fact there were a few lines in your post that lost me completely, like this:
” If you think for one moment that Islam is not the problem than you are not being honest here. I say hey yeah the Crusades in the name of Christ was exactly the same and guess what they had a reformation and came out of the middle ages I do not believe that axis has been reached in these United States nor across the world.”
I am not ridiculing here, just responding and not totally sure what I am responding to. I think you read too much into my post, words mean things, and aside from a few misspellings, I choose them carefully.
so to be clear, here it is:
1) I support Israel doing whatever it takes to defeat their enemies
2) I do not suppor the idea that all Muslims should be killed and all Muslims are a threat to humanity.
Molon Labe!
If you want to discuss please email me Doc as I committed to stay off the thread!
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 9:35PM EST (link)Thanks!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
my prayers for Israel's success
atemely Saturday, January 3rd at 7:39PM EST (link)‘When peaceful silence lay over all, and night had run half of her swift course, your all-powerful word, O Lord, leaped down from heaven, from the royal throne’. The Book of Wisdom 18:14-15
Israel must call the bluff
antisocial Saturday, January 3rd at 8:00PM EST (link)of UN and Arab League. If there are casualties then that’s the reality of an armed conflict. Killing Israeli’s needs to STOP. Can any UN member or any Arab league nation guarantee there won’t be any attacks on Israel? If not they should just shut up.
I switched to CNN to check their reporting. They portrayed it as if Israel is killing “innocent” folks. e.g. There was a comment by their anchor… “We are getting reports of more than 400 people killed in Gaza and only 4 Israeli casualties…”. What? Stunning.
Until now Bush administration has done everything right. Hopefully the support will continue. Adherence to non-violence can not be one sided.
Go Israel… wipe out Hamas.
No you can’t - Moe Lane
——————————
The Emperor has no clothes!!!
——————————
Republicans who lost the Crap-and-Raid fight in the House -
Mary Bomo Mac (CA-45)
Mike Castle (DE)
Mark Kirk (IL-10)
Frank A. LoBiondo (NJ-02)
Chris Smith (NJ-04)
Leonard Lance (NJ-07)
John M. McHugh (NY-23)
Dave Reichert (WA-08)
cnn is Ted Turner's propaganda machine
Doc Holliday Saturday, January 3rd at 9:58PM EST (link)it is sad that leftists support Islamic radicals simply because they oppose the US. There is nothing liberal about radical Islam, or Islam period. The lefties just like anyone who bashes Bush and burns American flags.
Molon Labe!
Dr. Rubin if Israel does not see this through to the end....
JadedByPolitics Saturday, January 3rd at 8:48PM EST (link)once and for all and allows any bad actors ie: France, US, Germany, UN etc. to decide for you what you shall do for your people you shall all be nothing but a memory within a decade…..this is the boiling point this is the end game as Iran is arming itself with nuclear weapons and of course arming Hamas and Hezbollah with longer range missiles which threaten you nuclear facilities.
I as one lone American am begging you all to FINISH THIS once and for all. I am a woman in my 40’s and have spent my lifetime watching this battle then “ceasefire” than battle tha “ceasefire” and you and I both know the “ceasefire” is a really a rearming party. There cannot be a rearming party any longer as the weapons get more precise and the ultimate end game is the total destruction of Israel as it has always been. Will the government of Israel allow that to happen? will you all allow the world to tut tut the actions of true EVIL and force you to retreat yet again? Do you not think that the majority of the world does not recognize this deadly game for what it is?
I believe that the leftist/marxist/socialist in the world could give a wit about you and your country BUT I believe that the majority of the world does and will stand with you as you protect the very SURVIVAL of your lives and country.
FINISH IT……CRUSH THEM!
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
God bless you sir. God bless Israel.
cookcountyconservative Saturday, January 3rd at 8:49PM EST (link)n/t
What do you make of this article?
izoneguy Saturday, January 3rd at 9:34PM EST (link)If Obama Is Serious - He should get tough with Israel.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/177716?from=rss
My take is: Israel is coming to the realization that their survival is up to themselves alone. The Obama/Biden team has done nothing to instill confidence in Israel that the US will be there to help.
“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson
Protest in San Francisco
izoneguy Saturday, January 3rd at 9:41PM EST (link)Ship all the Palestinians to the Blue States
“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson
It's the Network...
$peciallist Sunday, January 4th at 12:31AM EST (link)Crazies you want to see, crazies you get to see......
Kenny Solomon Sunday, January 4th at 12:14AM EST (link)Not one news story about this anywhere other than a blog site.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/195701.php
Hamas children’s website…….. and it’s hosted in the USA by GoDaddy.com
Isn’t this just special, eh ?
Of course you can have my guns……. Bullets first.
I didn’t say rounds, shells or magazines……
I said bullets first.
ATTENTION Barack Obama....Do you support Israel?
$peciallist Sunday, January 4th at 1:39AM EST (link)Barry?…I expect you to answer this in your next post…
At American Jewish forums
Doc Holliday Sunday, January 4th at 1:50AM EST (link)yes, other places, not so much.
Molon Labe!
I doubt he does
izoneguy Sunday, January 4th at 1:46PM EST (link)Now that the lefty Jews have voted for Obama
he can throw Israel under the bus.
Many of Obama’s leftist supporters want him
to do as much. It’s hard to agree to peace when the
other side keeps lobbing missles your way.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/177716?from=rss
“When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
Thomas Jefferson