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4th Circuit orders Marine dad to pay scumbags who picketed son’s funeral

In case you forgot why you hate liberal courts

This is why the Senate 41 should block the nomination of every Obama court nominee at every level. Just simply block every single one. Because they are all like this, or worse.

The AP reported Monday (*slander included, no extra charge):

The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters’ appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder’s funeral in 2006. The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court. The decision adds “insult to injury,” said Sean Summers, one of Snyder’s lawyers.

The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters’ message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

Yes, you read that right.

His son, a Marine, died in Iraq. When the family held a private funeral on March 10, 2006, Fred Phelps and fellow charlie-sierras from a kook cult church….well, let me quote (subsequent details in this blog are also from this site):

Westboro Baptist Church pastor and founder Fred Phelps and members of his congregation picketed Matthew’s funeral, holding signs expressing anti-gay, anti-American, and anti-Catholic slogans, including “God hates you” and “You’re going to hell.”

Westboro Baptist Church also posted an essay on its website entitled “The Burden of Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew A. Snyder.” In the essay, statements indicated that Albert and his wife “raised [Matthew] for the devil,” “RIPPED that body apart and taught Matthew to defy his Creator, to divorce, and to commit adultery,” “taught him how to support the largest pedophile machine in the history of the entire world, the Roman Catholic monstrosity,” and “taught Matthew to be an idolator.”

Westboro idiots

To make a long story short, Matthew Snyder’s family sued the dirtbags in federal court on 4 counts:

  • defamation — dismissed in summary judgment before trial – the judge actually said “These comments — as extreme as they may be — they are taken in terms of religious expression. This is not the type of language that one is going to assume is meant as a statement of fact.” [apparently if you tell a lie huge enough, it's OK because nobody is expected to believe you -- this explains why Barack Obama is not in jail, I guess]
  • invasion of privacy — also dismissed before trial
  • invasion of privacy (intrusion upon seclusion) — won $6 million in punitive damages.
  • intentional infliction of emotional distress — won $2 million in punitive damages. They won 2.9 in actual damages.

However…..
Later, the judge reduced the total from $10.9 million to $5 million. In September, 2008 [oops, that's 2009], the 4th circuit reversed the lower court, throwing out the entire thing because both the picketing and the slanderous essay were “protected First Amendment Speech”.

And now this Friday, the 4th Circuit ordered Albert Snyder to pay legal fees to the charlie-sierras of Westboro “Baptist” “Church” to the tune of $16,510.

And since it’s protected First Amendment speech…and also since “this is not the type of language that one is going to assume is meant as a statement of fact”…. I would like to add the following:

The 4th circuit is full of America-hating liars, embezzlers, and rapists, who break their oaths as casually as they eat their breakfast cereal. They have Karl Marx shrines in their bedrooms and in fact never read the U.S. Constitution except as opposition research. They acquired their seats in the judiciary by selling their own underage daughters as prostitutes to Democrat senators. Also, they were influenced to overturn this case because “Pastor” Fred Phelps “serviced” every one of them.

You know, this First Amendment-protected defamation and slander is pretty fun. Now I think I can see why Democrats like it so much.

It ain’t over yet….

  • You can chip in to the Al Snyder fund. Go to matthewsnyder.org.
  • The US Supreme Court has accepted this case. It will be heard this fall.

* you notice how the AP leaves the suggestion out there that Lance Corporal Snyder was gay, right?

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COMMENTS

  • klondike

    Had this family been Republicans, the AP would have noted that ad detail nauseum throughout the article. The AP just leaves it “out there” that since this cult is a “church” and is anti-gay, the family surely must be right wing. The tipoff, however, is the hatefulness, ugliness, and in-your-face approach, which are the exclusive domain of the left, in my opinion. The AP knows full well that this family is Democrat. FP has run for office a couple of times as a Dem, and he and his brother campaigned for Al Gore.

    These are despicable acts, no matter the political persuasion. I just wanted to point out APs glaring hypocrisy.

    Eleven members of this family are civil rights lawyers. They make their living through lawsuits. They intentionally provoke people at these funerals, hoping for a response which would enable them to sue for slander. They also scour the web for references to them so they can sue for defamation, which is why I did not refer to them by name.

  • klondike

    “detail ad nauseum”

  • JadedByPolitics

    really make me sick! I know the devil revels in his being able to work through lefties at destroying the very fabric of decency under the guise of “Christianity”!

    • dbitz

      I wouldn’t call WBC left wing, or right wing. They’re a wing of their own…

      • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

        Phelps: registered Democrat, hates the army.

        Hating gays doesn’t take him out of the left wing, in fact it arguably puts him in it. Try debating a lefty on social policy without having some anti-homosexual slurs thrown at Republicans.

        • http://www.hakubi.us/ Neil Stevens

          Even the president threw one at the TEA partiers.

        • houstoneagle

          As a gay conservative, I can tell you that my conservative / Republican friends accept me a whole lot more than the liberal / Democrat folks do. It just does not compute with them how someone who is gay could believe in liberty, freedom, and the Constitution, along with 98% of the Republican platform, by the way!

          When asked how I can support a party that does not want to permit me to marry, I tell them I’m a Dick Cheney Republican, and states should be out of the business entirely of interpreting religious marriage. And besides, Obama is the captain of the Titanic and is purposely crashing us into the biggest iceberg in American history. I’d rather be in steerage with a Republican captain than first class with Obama at the wheel.

          Liberals are some of the most homophobic people I know. As for the few conservatives who don’t have love in their heart, at least they are conservative, meaning you can work with them and they at least have a good shot of coming around.

  • http://www.dcworksforus.com Kenny Solomon

    EPU, I gotta give you a big-time ‘reco’ here.

    I couldn’t have and wouldn’t have taken the First Amendment-protected defamation and slander route.

    I’ll leave it at that for commentary.

    As for the SCOTUS taking the case, let’s ‘hope’ there’s no ‘change’ and the court is still relevant.

    • E Pluribus Unum

      We already know how the 4 justices and the 4 french fries will rule. It boils down to Anthony Kennedy, and how he feels when he’s on his commute that day.

      • http://www.dcworksforus.com Kenny Solomon

        I’m wondering when the SCOTUS “accidents” are going to start.

        • grandma

          It is one of my biggest fears.

        • houstoneagle

          and it does not do to hint around at it. Those nine get along well, and the other eight would jump up and down and scream murder if it did.

  • mbecker908

    limit my ability to comment on this. Other than to say thank you for the link to contribute and you’re way to kind to the Phelps.

    One day the entire Phelps clan will be having quality time with Jack Murtha and Ted Kennedy.

    • E Pluribus Unum

      I had a more technical term than “serviced”.

      :)

  • Jack_Savage

    I would love to have a schedule of the outings of this “church”.

    • texasgalt

      You could run over somebody. I mean there is misbehavin’ and then there is true satisfaction. :-)

    • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

      http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html

      • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport
        • Richard Mullins

          If they even get close to here, I want to put a little lead in diet. They are already condemned to hell anyways, so I guess they don’t care. To me, Mr Synder shouldn’t give these creeps one penny. That’s right nothing at all. The Feds will have to come at force to make them pay.

      • Jack_Savage

        Interesting to note that they only do hit and run protests – 30 minutes each. I am glad to know they will be in my part of the world on April 9. Incredibly, they will be protesting at Virginia Tech, saying that “God sent the killer”.

        I think this will be a bad, bad, bad move.

        • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

          Even though they hate America, they love to sue, as well as hide behind the protection of the Constitution.

          • Jack_Savage

            And it appears that they are full aware of all their “rights”. The Va Tech students are considering what to do in response to these punks. Blacksburg has an ordinance prohibiting doing what I would love to do, but it is only a Class III misdemeanor.

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            Those people are infuriating, but [site moderator hat on] this doesn’t actually conform to the Posting Rules, so everybody stop cracking what are undoubtedly exaggerations and jokes.

            Not noting names, but it’s got to be toned down. Grok?

          • Jack_Savage

            From my research, a quote from the Virginia Tech newspaper:

            “While some at the (student) meeting proposed blocking the group?s proposed protest location, members of the group pointed out the action would be illegal under town code.

            Article II, Section 15-203 of the Blacksburg Town Code prohibits persons from physically interfering with demonstrations, or addressing protestors with ?profane, indecent, abusive, or threatening language.? Violation of the code is punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.”

            Perhaps some more precise language on my part would have helped.

            And it is OK, Moe. Really. You can call me out anytime I need it.

          • http://moelane.com/ Moe Lane

            When Jesus said “Love thy enemy,” in Fred Phelps’ case I suspect that He was speaking strictly in His professional capacity.

          • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

            n/t

  • Tbone

    what is true is that they all started out as lawyers.

    • Amy Miller

      Some of us are working very hard to one day find a way to take these scumbags down :)

      • Tbone
  • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

    Several years ago, when these a**holes began their picketing a group of Vets and motorcycle enthusiasts formed a group called the Patriot Guard to protect grieving families from these mucous-stained pustules of humanity.

    [When I joined the group had 36,000 volunteers. It is now 186,000 volunteers who ride for soldiers' funerals and now coming home rallies. More info here: http://www.patriotguard.org/]

    Having ridden on several missions over the years to attend funerals for our fallen soldiers, it still amazes me that the cruelty that the WBC cretins demonstrate toward grieving families.

    Several years ago, these pigeon-feces-for-hearts bird brains had the gall to announce that they were going to protest outside the funerals of the Amish children who were killed by a mass murderer outside of Lancaster, PA. They were only dissuaded when Mike Gallagher gave them a free hour on his radio show to spew their venom on his show.

    The WBC are vermin.

    • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

      http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,217975,00.html

      These people are deplorable and should rot in hell.

  • Old_Dominion

    There are seven judges appointed by Democratic presidents, and seven judges appointed by Republican presidents. Additionally, there is also Judge Roger Gregory, who was appointed by Clinton via recess appointment and then re-appointed by Bush.

    • E Pluribus Unum

      But today we are playing “paint with a giant brush” today. Just like the media is, regarding that gun-toting bunch up in Ohio. Seems like 2 of every three words in the coverage are “Christian” and “militant”.

      So you might say I’m just enjoying every bit of the privilege the First Amendment affords. And I don’t CARE who moninated who. It’s a ridiculous ruling, and I hold the whole 4th responsible.

      • Dan McLaughlin

        The 4th Circuit is actually one of the most conservative courts in the country. Here’s the original opinion dismissing the lawsuit. It’s written by Judge King, a Clinton appointee and formerly a Carter appointee as US Attorney in West Virginia, but the other two judges on the panel (Judge Shedd and Judge Duncan) are George W. Bush appointees; Judge Shedd was formerly chief counsel for Strom Thurmond on the Judiciary Committee and was appointed a district judge by George HW Bush. (Judge Shedd thought the court shouldn’t rule on the 1st Amendment claim because he thought Snyder failed to present sufficient evidence to support his claims).

        I assume, as per usual practice, the award of costs was handed down by the same panel. Under Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure 39, the award of costs on appeal is routine. The court had discretion to depart from the usual practice, and I certainly would have done that here, given the fact that Snyder’s position was held to be well-founded by the lower court and that the plaintiffs had engaged in genuinely appalling conduct, but it’s not surprising that the court would handle the costs issue with a summary order adhering to the usual rule.

        • E Pluribus Unum

          I found the appellate ruling …. interesting.

          I don’t dispute the general concept of “loser pays”. In fact if it were the standard everywhere, we might cut down considerably on the ambulance-chasing tort monkeys who are probably more responsible than any other entity for driving up health care costs.

          What I object to is that ruling in September. If those jerks did not comitt IIED, then there is no such tort [i believe the invasion of privacy claims never had merit, and I believe the defamation DID have merit and it was wrong to toss it pre-trial] . If Instruction 21 is something that should not be used, I would think a whooooooole LOTTA cases would be overturned, yes? Sounded like a boiletplate jury instruction to me.

          I don’t mean to be argumentative, but calling the 4th one of the more conservative Courts of Appeals (with which I concur, for the record) still puts them left of center. And people nominated by Republican presidents show a distressingly high recidivism rate into common left-itis. Means virtually nothing.

          Tell me this, inre Shedd’s claim. Appellate courts, aren’t they supposed to rule only on procedure, not on the merits? His contention is that they did not persuade on the merits.

          Where was this guy when the dumb McDonalds coffee lady won a $27 million lawsuit?

          • E Pluribus Unum

            I know what you are saying is right.

            I find the overturning argument to be uncompelling. Their ruling would, IMO, make slander protected speech, as long as it’s presented as hyperbolic, over-the-top rhetoric.

          • AndrewHyman

            I’m not convinced that Judge Shedd got it wrong. The issue on appeal wasn’t slander, right? The tort issues on appeal were invasion of privacy, and intentional infliction of emotional distress (IIED). EPU, your main objection seems to be regarding the IIED claim.

            Intentional infliction of emotional distress (IIED) is a recently-created tort that did not exist back when this country was founded. Courts have been properly reluctant to accept IIED claims, for fear of opening the door to frivolous claims.

            Judge Shedd mentioned some examples where an IIED claim has succeeded: (1) your shrink screws your wife, (2) a woman gets Aids after her lover hides the fact that he has Aids, and (3) a person is harassed in order to get the person to commit suicide. As scummy as Phelps seems to be, maybe he didn’t go quite that far.

            The top state court in New York State said this in 1993:

            [T]he requirements of the rule are rigorous, and difficult to satisfy….Indeed, of the intentional infliction of emotional distress claims considered by this Court, every one has failed because the alleged conduct was not sufficiently outrageous….Liability [in other states] has been found only where the conduct has been so outrageous in character, and so extreme in degree, as to go beyond all possible bounds of decency, and to be regarded as atrocious, and utterly intolerable in a civilized community….(citations omitted, emphasis added, punctuation modified).

            EPU, you said: “Tell me this, in re Shedd?s claim. Appellate courts, aren?t they supposed to rule only on procedure, not on the merits?” Nope. It’s true that an appellate court isn’t supposed to rule on the facts of a case (those are supposed to be found only by the trial court), but the appellate court can indeed rule on any matter of law, whether it’s substantive or procedural.

          • E Pluribus Unum

            I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. Fred Thompson is both, so I kind of get by on his credentials :)

            My main objection actually is both the IIED and the pre-trial tossing of defamation. And a little bit less the merits, per se, than the justification provided by the 4th and by the trial judge (respectively).

            I can appreciate the stringency of the requirements of IIED, and in general I would like to see all tort lawyers put their talents to good use flipping burgers.

            But listen to me now. Hear this with your non-lawyer ears. I didn’t invent the IIED tort. But if what THOSE people did is not intentional infliction of emotional distress, then there is no such tort. Protesting the funeral of a fallen soldier, with the family grieving, with chants and signs such as “you are going to hell”, “baby killers” and “God is killing soldiers to punish America for endorsing homosexuality”. The Snyders were not public figures. They were parents of a soldier who died in Iraq.

            Come on. A psychiatrist screwing your wife is penny ante compared to that. Not even a contest.

            I read the opinion, every word. I found their argument for overturning to be wanting.

            Inre Shedd, I don’t know what to think. I think he should have butted the hell out, frankly, regarding the facts of the case.

          • AndrewHyman

            Judge Shedd was just trying to obey the state legislature, which at any time is free to modify the law regarding both IIED and defamation.

            As for the First Amendment issue, a state can put time, place, and manner restrictions on speech but cannot shut it off completely. It’s just not the government’s job to do that kind of thing. However, private citizens like you, me, and Snyder are free to do various things to legally get back at Phelps, although the most effective thing might be to just ignore the SOB.

            Regarding the justification provided by the 4th and by the trial judge, it does seem that judges are often not trying to write for the layman, and they often assume a degree of background knowledge that a layman doesn’t have. So, I generally agree with your complaint about that.

        • http://www.thesubstratum.com GJ Merits

          Is a losing proposition. These guys are as out of touch as DC. One does not even need to look for a pattern anymore – it’s right there in plain site.

  • aesthete

    and how they could be lazy/arrogant enough not to provide a rationale for their asinine ruling. The only reason I’m not cursing is that I have yet to find a word in English to sufficiently convey the intensity to which I despise Westboro and their supporters (which I currently class the 4th as).

    • acat

      And, by being heard and overturned by SCOTUS, the resulting ruling would cover *all* others, including the 9th circus.

      Judges play strategy too, eh?

      Mew

  • Jack_Savage

    Thirty men on Harleys ride up, and circle the group, backing into position. For one minute each, exactly the length of the public sickness the WBC will display, one by one the Harleys rev their engines to drown out the shouts of the mentally disturbed. In front of the Harleys, sixty people stand with signs and banners which are big enough to obscure the garbage and hatred on the banners waved by the church.

    • http://www.laborunionreport.comandhttp://www.laborunionreport.blogspot.com LaborUnionReport

      What we don’t do is rev the engines on the bike’s because we are there to protect the family from these cretins during the service.

      However, what we DO is form a flag line that completely blocks the family from visually seeing the vermin and (usually) they are far enough away so the family does not hear them either.

      You don’t have to be a biker to be involved with the Patriot Guard, it is completely voluntary. If you can make a mission, you do. If not, that’s okay.

      http://www.patriotguard.org/

      • Jack_Savage

        I fully support them, and always thank their employers for their service when they go on a mission. To be honest I was thinking of them when I wrote the comment – I would love to see the Guard break bad, and I would love to see the local Blacksburg Guard do the exact same thing at these protests.

        I didn’t know I could be involved without being a biker, though. I’ll look into it, have donated in the past.

      • LDahl752

        I have a friend in San Jose who travels with them whenever she can. That’s exactly what they do, form a “shield” between the mouorners and those vile WBC people. Their protests at funerals are so stupid. If they want to express their opinions about gays in the military, why do it there? Why not in front of the Pentagon, or recruiting offices? They have no idea who the fallen troops or their families are.

  • http://slcliberty.blogivists.com randy streu

    I’m leaving.

    • acat

      These *holes are very subject to Alinsky.

      Mew

  • quill67

    I don’t donate often (sorry Redstate) but I will be in the fall and I had to donate for this cause.

    Imagine losing your son , a son whom you watched and took care of from the time he could take his first steps to the time he became a young man. A young man who so loved his country that he was willing to serve. Now imagine that during the funeral for this lost son that people were yelling he would go to hell.

    I don’t know if the father will win this battle but I’ll be damned if he should go into debt to payoff this scum (who announced today that they will use any money the father is forced to give them to support more protests at soldier’s funerals)

    • LDahl752

      Just heard it this morning on Fox. Apparently he said last night that if Mr. Snyder gets stuck with this, he will pay the bill for him. Good for Bill O!

  • gremlin1974

    when people refer to these wacko cults “Christian”. I wonder what bible they are reading from when they come up with Hate the Military. I guess King David wasn’t in their bible, bet he was responsible for more deaths than this Marine Hero.