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RS

EDITOR OF REDSTATE

The Bailout

The End Is Just The Beginning

People vastly smarter than me say that the Paulson bailout plan is a necessity to prevent a market meltdown.

I trust these people.

But I also know that people smarter than me got us into this mess and the Democrats will not allow us out of this mess without creating another mess of some sort down the road.

I have no bone to pick with those who support this plan. I understand and go into this with eyes wide open that doing nothing may have short term catastrophic effects on the market.

I also know that if we do the plan, we may be in a recession for a decade.

Friends, forests grow again after a forest fire. Markets grow again after a crash. Neither will grow and neither will thrive when suffocated. The Democrats, should this plan pass or not pass, will suffocate the market.

I cannot fault those who support this plan because some do it to mitigate Republican losses — they think doing nothing will make the situation so bad that the GOP will be swept so far out to sea there won’t be enough to stop a President Obama. Some do it because they think the repercussions would otherwise be disastrous for the economy.

The Left wants this deal to not pass because they think a total collapse can finally bring about the socialist revolution they crave.

I don’t think that will happen. I do think it will reward bad behavior. I also think, looking at polling right now, it will be President Obama’s Treasury Secretary dealing with this and I do not trust the decisions that person, whoever it might be, will make.

So I cannot support the plan, but do not fault those of you who support it. It may very well be necessary. I just do not think so. And I think we will spend years reaping rotten fruit because of it.

COMMENTS

  • izoneguy

    Maybe we should all be clinging to our guns & religion?

  • StephC

    Try as I might, I can’t find a way to support this bill.

  • simpson316

    from Arnold Kling:

    This gets back to Robert Merton?s other point, about financial engineering, and how few of the executives and regulators (what I refer to as ?suits?) understand it. And journalists especially. I have not seen a single news analysis or op-ed piece on the bailout that is informed by an understanding of modern financial engineering.

    Honestly, I?m writing like I?m such a maven, but I?m out of date myself by more than 10 important years. I have only the sketchiest understanding of CDS?s and CDO?s. I?m like someone whose computer programming knowledge stoped with BASIC, when the modern tool is Java.

    But the journalists and all the suits don?t have clue one. They keep talking about ?yield to maturity? as if they were buying bonds. That would be like a technology journalist or CEO not understanding the difference between a laptop and a typewriter.

    The bottom line is this: the mess we?re in is due in large part to the ignorance of modern finance on the part of high-level executives, regulators, and of course Congress. And those are the people designing the bailout.

    Have a nice day.

  • dmort

    While I share everyone’s distaste for the bailout the possibility of a depression due to inaction is something I don’t want to see.Alot of banks lack the liquidity in the event of a run.The cost of the FDIC and SPIC running out of money would cost as much as the bailout.Throw in 50% unemployment and the cost of unemployment insurance would surely be expensive.

    Today in parts of the country people can’t get a car loan even with a FICO of 700 or better.The vredit crisis is real and on the verge of getting worse.

  • LovesSarahPalin

    Erick
    The challenge we face as Republicans is to do EVERYTHING in our power to dispel the myth about what created this issue. There is a video circulating now that shows the usual suspects (Frank, Waters, et al) spouting about how there is no problem with Fannie or Freddie and Frank Raines is just a swell egg and he must be doing a great job…My local pravda led with a story today how Enron was the cause for the current crisis. ENRON?!?!?!? I cringe in fear at the thought that the first waves of the Great Society Part II are splashing on our national shore…
    There are ugly undercurrent words that I fear may need to be said about this and I am terrified that we are powerless to stop the fecklessness that is bamboosling this country right now.
    How’s that for sunshine and happy!??!

  • derechista

    for the bailout, Sen. McCain needs to incorporate into his campaign making those who got us into this mess infamous.

    He should stalk the likes of Barney Frank with this message to the point that they will resign from Congress.

    Or, maybe, this might be a proper role for Gov. Palin? Possibly too cute by half, but preserving the American Way is much more important than the result of the election.

  • enrique

    Supporting a plan like this for political reasons would be a disaster. The deal goes forward either way whether the House Republicans support it or not. Sometimes you have to tell people that we have stagflation and no growth for years or a very, very painful year. We lived outside our means and it has to happen.

    Politically, there is no way to avoid this one. Bush will be seen as the new Hoover with his hopeless interventionist policies of the economy at the end and a Federal Reserve that kept interest rates low to try and avoid a recession. Bush knows this and will do anything to protect his ‘legacy.’

    Sometimes you have to do what’s right even if it’s going to hurt. Sadly, our men and women on the right side of the aisle don’t look to be heading that way.

  • Pentagon16

    If a conservative actually believes that Obama is going to win- then WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE if we pass this bill now?!

    In other words, the liberals in three months will be passing an EVEN WORSE bill signed into law by President Obama.

    So how can any conservative in good conscience NOT support a bill that at least alleviates some of the worst of what the liberals want. And at least gives McCain a chance at winning- and the GOP a shot at not being demolished in November?!!

    Once again it is committing suicide for the party and our cause based on ONE ideal, rather than actually using tactics and strategy to recover and fight another day and thus gain MORE of what we want long term.

    Those on the far right are just as ideologically rigid and short sighted as the Kos Kids- who sent Lieberman into the arms of the GOP..

  • dbecraft

    Could you please explain just why you support this bailout? Please add why you support the current bill… Thanks,

  • dbecraft

    Maybe the time is to NOT vote for this package and let the Democrats take the blame.

    Actually, that is what I would have hoped for (best case) just because I think this is a bailout – (ie socialist support) of big markets.

    Let the banks fail…it is their due.

  • olderwhitewoman

    I write this as a much older person than I suspect most of you are.

    I believe that “ordinary” people should be smart enough to figure out what they have coming in and compare it with what they have to pay going out. I also believe that “really smart” people in the financial industry should be ethical enough to know that their actions will affect others even if they are able to make it out of the game with millions. So, you would think that I would say “a pox on all their houses” and oppose this bailout.

    However, . . .

    I am retired. My husband (still working) has just had his work cut to 3 days per week, but that is where our health insurance is coming from (and the cost of it is doubling as his hours are cut).

    We have worked all our lives. Our house is paid for. We have savings – much of it in 401k plans.

    So, can we afford NOT to have a bailout? Well, we would be better off than many younger people, I suspect (we have both survived on beans from time to time in our lives), but we are risk averse. That is why we saved, etc.

    I think there are a lot of people out there like us.

  • MrSandman

    This bill is not an “investment”. It’s a bailout that most everyone acknowledges won’t even fix the problem.

    It’s throwing a bunch of good money after money long bad.

    It’s a gift from the federal government to WS hand delivered by their $500 million dollar courier.

    Pathetic and disgusting….and worse….it won’t work. It won’t even come close to “working”. Pissing on a forest fire….

  • GaryL

    As someone who spent years dutifully paying off their mortgage and carefully managing credit, sections 109 and 110 just turn my stomach.

    Also, the Oversight Board is anything BUT independent. It is the fox guarding the hen house. It is the same cast of characters who created this mess in the first place. Again? it is nauseating.

  • Wubbies_World

    … the band off slow. Either way, it is going to be painful. The choice is a lot of pain right away to get it over with, or to pull slow and prolong the pain.

    I am sick to my stomach over this, and all we can do is pray. I do not want the bail out. I am opposed to it.

    However, as far as Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, I do believe there needs to be criminal prosecutions. What Democrats did to make it their piggy bank is criminal. I also understand nothing will be done to prosecute anyone. At least that is how I understand it.

    We are about to undergo a very long and deep recession now. The bail out will only make it deeper and longer.

    All that is left to do is pray. Events on the cusp of an election have already doomed this whole event. The path of events appear to be inexorable in their movement. Only God can change the direction. I will trust in Him as I am certain you already do.

    Thank you for the post.

  • enrique

    I feel the worst for those of you who are nearing or are retired. You won’t have time to ‘catch up’ and save enough. Really, the situation is one in which we have to go through a slow down because of the bubbles that have been formed.

    The only way for a plan like this to work is for the dollar’s value to fall dramatically which would annihilate the savings of most Americans who were smart enough not to leverage everything. (How about $8-10/gallon of gas or $5/loaf of bread?) By allowing the dirty business of a huge slowdown to occur, you protect the value of the dollar but lots of people take it on the chin. The market will either stay flat for a looooong time or it will get hit hard and then regain a slow and modest uptick as capital is created.

    There is no guarantee that this bailout plan will even work temporarily. All I am sure of is that it will intertwine the executive branch in with banks’ success and failures even more and allow for even greater mischief in the market.

    And we won’t control the executive branch forever.

  • dbecraft

    It gets down do you trust the government to bail us out now (and possibly make things worse) or let it go and let things get worse…

    Neither is a good result….

  • dld1717

    I wish our party could be shown to have more sympathy for people who are suffering. I think saying people are not smart is insulting.

    Things are way too expensive now a days for many people to live and make ends meet. I mean to own a home today can easily cost 1 million in Northeast and thats not for anything fancy. To send your child to school can cost a lot today, or graduating from college and having intense financial aid to be paid back is a lot

    At some point one has to wonder how much more can these homes be priced at, college rise, and yet living in NYC I am amazed at how much more it does each and every year. The rent for your apartments go up and up and so does each and every other bill. At some point it can’t go up anymore I hope

  • dld1717

    I wish our party could be shown to have more sympathy for people who are suffering. I think saying people are not smart is insulting.

    Things are way too expensive now a days for many people to live and make ends meet. I mean to own a home today can easily cost 1 million in Northeast and thats not for anything fancy. To send your child to school can cost a lot today, or graduating from college and having intense financial aid to be paid back is a lot

    At some point one has to wonder how much more can these homes be priced at, college rise, and yet living in NYC I am amazed at how much more it does each and every year. The rent for your apartments go up and up and so does each and every other bill. At some point it can’t go up anymore I hope

  • dbecraft

    good synopsis… That does not mean that I think that this plan is a disaster!

  • dbecraft

    You want our party to provide money to those that can’t make it or have problems! Geez, you are no different that the Democrats! Either you work and make it or you turn to the Democrats for a hand-out (seems the plan these days). I guess you are the latter…

    Look, it’s okay to feel bad and help those that have no options (I call it charity), but to think the the government is there to save you is ludicrous. What would you have done 50 years ago!

    Geez…get a life, get a job, and get your own self out of missery. The government does NOT exist to help individuals!

  • Maggie_in_Indiana

    No Bail Out! It’s unamerican. Free markets have the ability to succeed as well as fail. Many have failed and others risen to take their place,it has always been that way in everything throughout history.Look those that are still doing well and maybe better if the Giants went extinct. Think about it. This bandaid could very well fail,then what? More$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  • exitsfunnel

    I agree with you 100% that home prices are too high, but given that, I’m not sure that I understand your comment. The hope is that the bailout will ‘jump start’ the housing market, ie, cause home prices to increase. If lower home prices are your goal, you should be opposed to the bailout, though, really, it might not matter too much either way, housing has nowhere to go but down.

    -exits

  • dmort

    From GOP House.

    Myth: Windfall for ACORN.

    Fact: The Frank-Dodd proposal created an affordable housing slush fund and directed 20 percent of net benefits from the program to be directed to ACORN-type organizations. The proposed compromise does not include any affordable housing slush fund and directs all net benefits back to the Treasury to pay down the national debt.

    Myth: Tax increase on financial industry.

    Fact: The proposed compromise imposes NO tax on the financial services industry. The proposed compromise simply requires a proposal from the Administration to recoup any losses after five years.

    Fact: The proposed compromise includes tax cuts for struggling community banks.

    Myth: Blank check for $700 billion with little accountability.

    Fact: In general, the Treasury Secretary is limited to purchasing up to $250 billion outstanding at any one time. If the Treasury needs to use another $100 billion, the President must certify this action and report to Congress. Further spending requires Congressional action.

    Myth: Treasury plan is the only option available.

    Fact: Treasury is given multiple options to deal with the current economic crisis, including insurance, public/private auctions, loan guarantees, and direct support to financial institutions.

    Fact: Further, Treasury is MANDATED to create an insurance program (Section 102) that protects the taxpayers and requires companies that wish to participate in this program to have some skin in the game by paying risk-based premiums.

    Myth: The taxpayer is not adequately protected.

    Fact: The proposed compromise includes strong taxpayer protections. Treasury?s proposal had minimal oversight to protect taxpayer dollars. The proposed compromise enhanced the oversight structure by creating a Financial Stability Oversight Board, a Special Inspector General, and a Congressional Oversight Panel.

    All AIG-type deals require mandatory equity interest in order to provide taxpayers with potential future benefits. All auctions require a percentage of equity interest based on participation in the program.
    Requires the Secretary to develop regulations/guidelines necessary to prohibit or, in specific cases, manage any conflicts of interest with respect to contractors, advisors, and asset managers.

    Myth: The taxpayer does not benefit from Treasury bailouts.

    Fact: The proposed compromise (Section 113) requires mandatory equity interest in scenarios like AIG. The proposed compromise also allows Treasury to take an equity interest in the program generally.

    Myth: Treasury will never use the insurance option.

    Fact: Treasury is mandated (Section 102) to establish an insurance program and set risk-based premiums. This will protect taxpayers by requiring the beneficiaries of the insurance program to pay risk-based premiums. Treasury further shall collect premiums mandatory equity interest in scenarios like AIG. The proposed compromise also allows Treasury to take an equity interest in the program generally.

  • dld1717

    You sound so arrogant. I am sorry but what you just said really boils my blood

    People in this country work hard in many cases but they own a home, send their kids to school, and everything else goes up and its hard to make ends meet. I do not think any of these people want a hand me out what they want is some help in the sense that these things don’t go further up and thats what our party needs to work on

  • dld1717

    Most people graduate from college have college loans to pay back right away, have rent, bills, and its all going up

    I do not think a lot people expect hand me outs what many people expect is that these same things stop going up.

  • dbecraft

    Look, you can either buy your home (if you can afford it) or you can RENT… Wow, seem that renting has become a poverty option…

    Mercy, haven’t heard that awful term used by Congress lately – RENT, an awful word I guess…

    I have rented most of my life and find it a much more satisfying agreement than a purchase followed by an attempted sale of a home (at market prices). Yes, it use to be an automatic price increase, but those times have sailed.

    Home ownership is nice, but requires much more from the owner. Please, just rent and build up the rental market – (but don’t increase the rental prices – heh).

    Yea, I know that will happen, but that is capitalism at its best.

  • PetraeusForPresident

    type economic growth for probably the better part of the next decade.

    That is…if we’re lucky.

    This bailout will probably be the first of many yet to come, each one being touted as the only option because we are facing economic Armageddon.

    By loading the bill with so many punitive measures on the financial institutions that elect to participate in the “reverse auction”, the incentive for most firms with the junk on their books is to keep it and wait for their more desperate competitors to unload theirs to the Treasury first. That way, they can have some hope of not taking realized losses (by selling) instead of paper losses.

    For the firms that can ride it out, they won’t have signed their soul – and the future of their company – over to the Feds.

    Besides that, once the Credit Default Swap markets start tumbling – likely in the next 12-24 months – we’re all finished financially. It’s a subject not many people pay attention to, nor understand, but it has the potential to send companies around the world falling like dominos. Governments will attempt to intervene, but that too will only cause a different set of winners and losers, but the same results in the end.

    Get ready folks. Sharpen your rhetoric against the Democrats, because if they get control of our entire government after this election, none of our lives will ever be the same.

  • dbecraft

    boils my blood!

    You really need to get a life! I may sound arrogant, but I am much more realistic than you are.

    I have owned 1 home in my life and decided that it was more than I wanted to undertake. With Taxes, yard work, etc. it was an easy choice…

    So I ask you, just what is it about renting that you abhor?

    If you leave out “own their home”, I might agree with you, but almost everybody has a chance with their future.

    You can always enlist in the military and get a free education!

    If you are dumb, then you have no chance and that is what is suppose to happen… much to your dismay.

    Then they depend upon charity (churches etc.), but surely you don’t expect that government should support the stupid also…

    Yep, I guess I am arrogant… I actually expect people to make it on their own…

  • Maggie_in_Indiana

    Paulson will be gone. Who is POTUS? Speaker? Committee heads?
    Vote for it and you could lose on Nov.4th. Vote against it and you could have a big advantage if it fails. This either way should be a talking point after the vote. Interesting huh?

    Mc Cain has to be very careful about the vote on this bail out. Could be the kiss of death,I’m ticked and so are alot of folks in the country.

  • dld1717

    You sound like an angry person

    No one expects hand me outs

    People want the chance to own a home (you may not realize this but to even own a home in Boston/NYC area the average one costs 1 million), people want to send their kids to better schools and everything is going up what is wrong with our party actually working to make things easier for people? People still expect to pay for these things but every year things go up and its not right.

    Nothing is wrong with renting I do but as some point I would love to own my own place and I want the chance to do that and so do many other Americans.

  • PetraeusForPresident

    I respect your factchecking on this bill, however the overarching issue is not in the specifics, but whether this unprecedented degree of state intervention will actually help do anything other than forestall the inevitable.

    At the end of the day, this is essentially Paulson created a government hedge fund that arbitrages the risk of holding a large, diversified portfolio of mortgage backed securities and other debt instruments against the risk-free rate of the U.S. Treasury issuing anywhere from $250 billion to potentially over a trillion dollars worth of Treasury bonds.

    Maybe that can turn a profit in the end. Or maybe, if the economy doesn’t perform as well as we hope, the credit markets seize up – or dry up = because of banks aversion to risk in the domestic economy.

    One thing is for certain. The credit rating of the U.S. Treasury will now, for the first time in generations, start to be looked with a lot more skepticism by the rest of the world. Interest rates are almost certain to rise when the Treasury has to finance this debacle. The resulting hit on the dollar will be felt by us all.

  • IJB

    Were you against the Savings & Loan “bailout” at the time it was passed? And, if you were, are you still against it now, knowing that the government broke even on that one?

    And would you oppose the current “bailout” (which isn’t really a bailout at all), if you knew ahead of time that not passing it meant that the S&P would decline 75%, the United States would be finished as a global power, and a world war resulted from it? Because, seriously, those are real world possibilities if the worst happens.

    And, in the absence of this “bailout”, what would you suggest we do? And note ahead of time, you’ll get no credit from me if you answer “nothing”. I’d like a real alternative offered up.

    Because, frankly, I’m not hearing anything but a bunch of useless ‘hot air’ from the people opposing this “bailout”. Give us an alternative that has a chance of getting us out of this economically and/or politically, or just don’t bother.

  • dld1717

    Vote against it and you can viewed as causing the next Great Depression in this country

    Banks closing, sticks plunging, credit limit being decreased, jobs being loss and we are questioning if something needs to be done?

  • dbecraft

    guarantee you a good living… It hopefully gives you a foot in the door.

    After that, you have to prove yourself just like the rest of the non graduates…and many times, the non graduates win…

    You seem to be living in a fantasy world where you think that college graduates should get all the good jobs and everybody else gets the left overs.

    Let me clue in… Education is only a small part of the job market. Maybe you just need to get more experience in the real world…but actually, I think with your attitude, you will never excel..

    For your information, most of the non-graduates from the military will get jobs before the graduates because they have proven that they are reliable, dependable, loyal, and hard workers.

    Your kind on the other hand have proven themselves that they are usually liberal and have no moral attributes that will provide benefits to your employers.

    Wonder why they are not hired….think hard now…

  • MikeO

    Nearly every one of the hardships you mention is the result of bad/stupid government.

    1. Housing is expensive where I live because of restrictions on growth and development

    2. Apartments are expensive in NYC because of rent control

    3. Energy utilities are expensive because of the green movement

    4. A college education is expensive because

      a. The excesses of the civil rights shakedown industry have equated meaningful testing of job applicants to racism and has forced businesses to use degrees for screening

      b. Grants and loans are available to anyone regardless of aptitude and waste a scarce resource by flooding it with people who should enter the workforce directly, instead

    The problem is that we are the government. I am doing some soul-searching regarding whether I’m ready to cut-off my nose to spite my face. I can see all points of view regarding the bailout, and I don’t really care what happens because the only options on the table all stink.

  • dld1717

    LOL

    I wish I could laugh but you seem to have a lot of hostility

    I just want things to be made easier for people in this country and I certainly hope you do as well.

  • dbecraft

    I might agree. You are absolutely obsessed with home ownership, don’t know why, maybe it was drilled into you as a youngster.

    No everyone does NOT want to own a home! It is simply because that the government made it so easy to own a home that many tried and failed.

    There is a lot more to owning a home than most know and when it became apparent, they failed – and should not have attempted to own in the first place.

  • dmort

    If the Republicans dont vote for the bailout and the economy slips into recession the Dem’s win in a landslide in November.

    Join with the dem’s for the common good and the economy still melts down the Republicans get some credit for trying.

    The bailout works and we dont have a depression I think that puts country before party.The Savings and Loan crisis was our last financial crisis and at the end of the day the Treasury made a profit of $120b.I think the same will happen this time.Panics start because people are scared.WaMu collapsed because depositors over a 10 day period pulled out $16b.No deal and I think this will be played out on a massive scale.For me its just not worth the RISK to do nothing.

  • IJB

    Here’s what would really happen:

    If this bill fails, Republicans, specifically, House Republicans, will be “blamed”. You know it. And I know it.

    A crash would probably result, 4 weeks before the election. (Worse: anyone who’s a lib or a Dem in finance would then have incentive to precipitate a crash. Scary…)

    A crash would wipeout not only John McCain, but many, many House Republicans, and probably 10+ GOP Senate seats.

    The Dems would then have carte blanche to do anything they want. (The fact that all of the things they would propose to do wouldn’t work wouldn’t matter – 1) it’d take time for anti-GOP “anger” to dissipate, 2) it would take time for the GOP to recover electorally, and 3) it may not matter, if the Dems institute the Fairness Doctrine and all the other anti-Free Speech anti-civil rights initiatives that the Obamabots are wanting.

    You guys really want to take that chance?!

    This “bailout” (which isn’t one, but no matter…) will at least buy us time to work on this.

    And, in the meantime, it may prevent a wholesale slaughter of the GOP at the polls. Because, if this bill goes down, that’s exactly what’s likely to happen.

  • dld1717

    I totally concur with almost all your comments

    NYC is so expensive and things still go up and people still vote Democrat.

  • enrique

    Exactly. We risk with the issuance of all of these bonds to destroy whatever is left of America’s credit rating. The dollar is the world’s reserve currency because it is presumed to be the safest currency to hold.

    But if you’re a central bank and you see a nation with $11 trillion of debt and around $40 trillion or more in unfunded liabilities how safe is your money in dollars? Are those assurances of value in dollars worth anything?

    Because if you’re worried about the credit market right now, just wait if central banks around the world decide on gold or euros or yuan instead. We would instantly face hyperinflation of the dollar and everyone would overnight become much, much poorer.

    There is no way to predict when this would happen. Only that at some point it will because there is no sign of us slowing down our spending. There is already talk from banks in the middle east, Europe, and Asia that have floated the idea of using a different currency.

  • dbecraft
  • MikeO

    Please guarantee to me that the bailout package is going to prevent the next Great Depression.

    Please explain to me how you know that failing to pass this package will result in the next Great Depression.

    Make me know it, too. Please.

  • dbecraft

    thousand and finally being able to purchase a home….knowing that the yearly taxes and upkeep would also consume a portion of their income.

    Today, with the government options of zero down payment, and flexible payments, way too many jumped at the chance to buy with no knowledge of the expenses.

    Now you want to bail them out… please…

    These people got in over their heads (due the the government) and had no out. Well, I say they should have sold early and rented. Too late now that the real estate market has crashed (surprise)…

  • dld1717

    Great Post

    Something needs to be done. Not sure if this is right thing but at this point something is better then nothing. Hopefully, the stock market reacts positive tomorrow.

  • tippycanoe

    Perhaps the people would want to know who this will be and perhaps Obama will be forced to do the same. I’d like to know who he plans to watch the hen house.

  • PetraeusForPresident

    Third quarter corporate earnings season for 80% of the S&P 500 starts the second week of October.

    Currently, non-financial sector stocks have P/E multiples that are baking in pretty optimistic numbers for the 4th quarter and going forward.

    The back-to-school season was a dud. The government welfare, er stimulus checks that went out in May did not have any meaningful impact (imagine that…).

    If the House GOP stands together and votes against the bill when we all know the Democrats are going to have to get this thing passed and are only looking for enough GOP votes to allow more of their imperiled members to vote against it, then at least Republican House candidates have an issue.

    The bill is going to pass either way. The Democrats know they have to get it through and they are going to need Democrat votes to do it. They only want the House GOP onboard to take away the political risks if it doesn’t work.

    Now, if the market tanks in October – maybe even for completely other reasons – the Democrats will be seen as passing an ineffective bailout of Wall Street and putting taxpayers on the hook.

    Then the House GOP can say the Democrats should have listened to us more and followed the Republican’s ideas.

  • enrique

    Our country was founded on the principles of minimizing government interference to allow people the greatest ability to succeed. With that comes the possibility of failing as most famous entrepreneurs did in our history.

    I want life to be great for everyone too but I understand that the best way is to not assume I know how each person wants to live. Success is different for each individual. Also, taking from others without their consent and giving it to others is still theft and immoral.

    Taxation and the spending of tax money should never be taken lightly. One must always remember that the person it was taken from probably has more of a right to it than you or your favorite program.

  • scottbomb

    I asked it here but I think those who very thoughtfully took the time to answer missed my the point of my question:

    I understand that most of these so-called “bad mortgages” are being paid – 96% of them. Why are these called “bad debts” when vast majority are being paid?

    Are we paying $700 billion for the whole lot of them or just the 4% that are bad?

    And even if it’s just the 4%, another idea comes to mind. These are houses, real assets, that can be re-sold. They may not fetch the same price as before, but even still, it’s not a total bust.

  • dld1717

    I agree and people like Senator Dole and Senator Sununu who noticed what Fannie Mac were doing and fought it on Hill and were defeated by likes of Chuck Schumer may actually benefit from this

    Thats what really sick here

  • dbecraft

    No hostility here…just a realization that people like you are what cause the problems we have. Most of us have worked hard all our lives to get to where we are – good or bad – and live with the consequences.

    You expect too much without working for it and hope that the government will protect you in your efforts – ie. protect you if you fail.

    I just hope that my son have a much different attitude than you…

    The government can NOT make things easier – only more difficult. I’m sure that you will not agree with this though…

  • IJB

    Well done – you’ve resorted to the worst tricks that The Left use.

    The fact is, you can’t “prove” that a Depression will happen without the bailout, just as you can’t “prove” that another 9/11 (or worse) would have happened without taking out Saddam.

    The point is, a full-on crash/Depression a real serious risk.

    Some of you guys are such absolutists with your “principles” that you are willing to gamble with people’s lives, this Party’s survival, and the condition of these entire United States just to stick to some abstract ideals.

    Thanks, but no thanks – I’ll stick with the people who actually know a little something that’s going on, like Paulson and Blackhedd, over some FisCons In The Mist, when they tell me this it’s this or the Deep Blue Sea.

  • DGaines

    to try and restore confidence in the system, That’s it in a nutshell. When confidence returns, liquidity returns, credit returns etc.

    I’m against it by the way.

  • Staunch_Libertarian

    The obvious hysteria in Washington concerns me. No one is reading the bill. Everyone is attempting to cover his own hide. This is political expediency at its worst. If the economy is really so bad that we need a bailout this week or else then the economy is doomed no matter what. There is no reason we can’t take some time with this other than the fact that time will turn people against this nonsense.

    I was so happy to see the House Republicans stand up for small government principles. Now apparently they are on board. You’ll never convince me that something this drastic needed to be done this quickly. The bigger the decision the more cautious and prudent we should be.

  • dbecraft

    comments before this!

  • dbecraft

    the next one…

    You only have to look at the results and decide for yourself.

    Oh, and several thousand Al-Qaeda dead, that always helps in my view…

  • PetraeusForPresident

    Backed Securities.

    Yes, a high percentage are being paid back. Unfortunately, there are at least two other reasons that make these instruments nowhere near the value that they were once assumed to have.

    One is that the principal component of the properties is declining drastically in price. That is the market value of the underlying home/property. No one knows where the bottom is on that, and because these streams of payments on the mortgage were based on a much higher price when the loan was given, many of these loans are “underwater” or “upside down”.

    The concern is that as more and more people realize that they are paying more on their home than it is worth, sometimes involving tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, more people will go into default. The even bigger concern is for those who took out adjustable and option rate mortgages with low initial payments that later jump up to much higher payments in the third to fifth year.

    Most of these were originated at or near the very top of the bubble around 2005 and 2006, and are due to reset throughout the next few years. A huge chuck of them reset in August and September, although we won’t know the default rate on those before the election.

    The second concern is for the economy, and in particular unemployment. If the unemployment rate continues to rise, then it is a foregone conclusion that many, many more mortgages will go into default. This also means there are that many less people to buy up distressed properties in foreclosure auctions, which further forestalls a recovery in housing.

    Hope that helps. It is a very serious situation, indeed.

  • dbecraft

    California – right? Must be something here…

  • MikeO

    Odds are very good at this point that this country’s prosperity is going to be badly shaken and, as a result, our lives are going to be a lot less comfortable than they have been.

    There is going to be demagoguery. There is going to be class warfare.

    The key to riding this out is to draw the us/them line very carefully and to get the numbers to join the side you want to finish on top.

    Them is the elitist left and the Kos Kidz and all the other pieces of human garbage who have been exploiting the underclass for votes and the power to rob the rest of us blind.

    Them is the chronically dependent sheep regardless of race or social stratum stupid enough to impose their naive belief of government as a force for good on the rest of us.

    There aren’t that many of them, and I think it is past time for calling them out for what they are: parasites unworthy of their next breaths making a fat living off of our lifeblood.

    The last time that times got tough, our forebears made the wrong choices and saddled us with FDR’s New Deal. This time, we need to find a way to focus all of the anger where it belongs: On the left, on leftists, and on the irresponsible idiots who vote for them in hopes of picking the pockets of their more productive countrymen.

    It technically isn’t scapegoating to put the blame where it belongs.

  • MikeO

    Why should I guarantee you that Iraq prevented another 9/11?

    I didn’t assert that Iraq prevented another 9/11.

    I wouldn’t make such an unprovable assertion.

  • dbecraft

    Confidence is NOT going to return with this government assurance program. This is what you can call a Hope and Throw (long pass) and see if the result is good.

    Even if this works (complete), it will be temporary…but hey, let’s all just pretend and it will get better…

  • Berean

    That was why the House GOP refused to play along without a fairly major redesign of the bill.

    As to the time pressure, that is being fueled by a couple of factors.

    One is panicky investor behavior causing credit line freezeups. Once they see a plan in the works it will ease (in fact, note that when the plan was first proposed the market rocketed up – it dropped again when the original deal was off).

    The other factor is Congress is supposed to adjourn (actually it was supposed to adjourn Friday). When they adjourn they won’t be back until mid-November at earliest.

    As long as the plan provides a way to get the toxic loans out of the system without destroying the financial institutions in the process it will do its job. Credit will start to flow again in the market and we’ll see a mild rally start (mild because real estate still has a little more to drop as it is still overvalued).

  • PetraeusForPresident

    that I am most worried about.

    Economic conditions like the ones we may have ahead are things that current generations (even my own Gen X) have never had to deal with in their lifetimes.

    History has numerous examples of bad economic circumstances leading to even worse governments, and eventually to wholesale bloodshed.

    I cite as merely two examples the conditions in Germany and the U.S. in the years prior to World War 2 – the Great Depression; and the years leading up to the U.S. Civil War when Southern Democrats blamed the industrialization and progress of the North for the economic conditions in the agricultural Old South.

    The only time I can think of a time when a bad economy helped capitalism and the cause of the free market was during the stagflation of the Carter Era. That helped bring Reagan to power and the great economic success of the 80′s. Hopefully something similar can happen out of this, although it probably won’t be until 2012.

  • MikeO

    We are not going to stop the demagoguery from coming. That has been stock-in-trade for the left, and they have already been jumping on this opportunity to pit American against American.

    We need to learn to fight fire with fire.

    If this means we come out the other side with 42,082,311 fewer fellow Americans, then I can live with that because they started it.

  • PetraeusForPresident

    I’m sick of Republicans bringing a knife to a gun fight.

    The best way to defeat the Left is to use their own tactics against them.

    That means smearing them and the money behind them as much as possible to discredit them as corrupt and unworthy of government.

    I wrote a couple of diaries last night and today about the big liberals and Democrat donors behind the Washington Mutual and Wachovia debacles. We should hit the Democrats hard with the fact that their people created this, made millions from it, and then funneled that money right back into Democrat politicians.

    It’s the Democrats’ Enron.

  • MikeO

    Why would you want to smear these filthy, thieving animals when you could simply bring the truth to light? :-)

  • whizkid

    …you have to buckle down, do what’s right, and let God handle the results. It makes no sense to do something against conservative principles in order to ensure the election of someone who will support conservative principles, if your goal is to further conservatism.

    I believe this is a crucial election, but we cannot sacrifice our beliefs to win it! We must always, always, always do what’s right. There can never be a compromise between good and evil which will have a good result!

  • MikeO

    All of the bad government behind these things you list as hardships grew from a need for people to “do something” at some point in time.

    Development restrictions, apartment rent control, and environmental restrictions on energy production were emplaced under cover of improving quality of life. Equal rights laws were passed to right real injustices. Government funding for education was supposed to work toward improving the quality of our citizens.

    As we give government [that is, ourselves or others among us] this kind of power, the power will be abused. I didn’t make it that way—that is simply how it works.

    Is the bailout more of the same?

  • nod90

    September 30 will be the end of the quarter.

    Companies will have to add up their assets and liabilities for the investors.

    I suspect that is the problem.

    One thing to consider in all of this is that Paulson and Bernanke see a lot of information that can’t be made public. For some reason they seem to be very scared.

  • dbecraft

    this so called crisis. Oh well, a week after the fact we may be in just as good a position as we are now…

    Just who really knows anyway?

  • dbecraft