Lt. Gov. Steele knows I like him. And he knows I’d support him if he were RNC Chairman. But at this present moment I am in the no camp. I can be persuaded, but I stand at “no thanks” right now.
And frankly, I’m a bit aggravated by a lot of folks on our side who have gone all fan boy on Michael Steele. To use Joe Biden’s lingo, “a mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy” is no more a qualification for RNC Chair than for President of the United States. And that, frankly, is why a large number of people are supporting Michael Steele.
I want to support Michael Steele because of what he has done, not because of who he is or what he represents. I would encourage people who are supporting Lt. Gov. Steele to start talking about him as a serious leader, not him as a face to put up against Barack Obama. Why? Because the RNC Chairman’s role is much more of a behind the scenes role than an “in front of the camera” roll.
And thus far, based on what he has done, I have concerns. Again, I am persuadable, but I’d like to get these addressed:
1. Listening to the call conducted today with bloggers, I get the strong sense Lt. Gov. Steele really has no earthly idea what the RNC Chairman does, but seems to think it is about being the face/voice of the GOP while out of the White House. As an elected Republican, let me assure all of you there is a great deal more to the job of Chairman of the party under whose name I qualify to run for office. If Lt. Gov. Steele is only the face/voice of the party, who will be responsible for running it? I fear that it will be the same DC consultants that are running his campaign and demand party contracts for their friends. One of the great problems at the RNC and the other party committees has been the self-dealing consultants who put their contracts above recruiting and electing conservatives.
- There is, as there always has been, a movement afoot to marginalize pro-life voters who are, in fact, a very significant part of the GOP base. Lt. Gov. Steele, Christie Todd Whitman, and John Danforth started the Republican Leadership Council. The group’s purpose was to move the GOP leftward in the same way the Democratic Leadership Council’s purpose was to move the Democrats to the right.
The Republican Leadership Council lists among its “Strategic Partners”:
- GreenGOP.org
- Log Cabin Republicans
- Main Street Coalition (Fire at will, AceinTX)
- Planned Parenthood Republicans for Choice
- Republicans for Choice
- Republicans for Environmental Protection
- Republican Majority for Choice
- The Whitman Series
- The WISH List, which describes itself as “the nation’s largest fundraising network for pro-choice Republican women candidates at all levels of government.”
The RLC alone makes me deeply leery of Michael Steele as RNC Chairman. These groups want to purge the GOP of social conservatives, but for whom there would have never been any winning Republican coalitions in the last thirty years. Then there is his position that Roe v. Wade should remain in place, a position that is outside the platform of the very party he wants to lead.
As Streiff, a Maryland resident, noted, “Mr. Steele’s stated opinions place him comfortably in that part of the party occupied by Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, and his co-founders of the RLC. “1
There is also this: at this time, the GOP needs a work horse, not a show horse. There are enough big egos in the party apparatus in D.C. already competing for air time. Lt. Gov. Steele would, I’m afraid, cause friction among the big egos as he became a dominate voice in the party — and that would disrupt more than help. We need someone who can bring all the egos together and rebuild the party.
Lastly, I’m having a hard time gauging how successful GOPAC has been in the past couple of years and would appreciate any information on that.
Again, I can be persuaded. But right now, put me in the “we need an RNC member” camp — that’s where we’ll find the work horse. I am very comforted that the RNC committeemen and women who will actually be voting on this are unlikely to be persuaded otherwise. [NOTE TO THE RNC: Mike Duncan must go.]
For you activists who bristle when I say this, I’d tell you to look at Georgia. Two years ago the activists began agitating for one of their own to be party chair. They got what they wanted, but not what they needed. And the Georgia GOP has gone from being a gem of a party to a craptacular excuse for a party.
We need a competent manager and organizer, not a face.
-
In fairness, he was running for Lt. Governor of Maryland and being in favor of overturning Roe would have been the immediate death of his campaign. I’m practical enough to understand the realities of abortion politics in this country, but to also start the RLC and fill it with pro-aborts bothers me.
↩

Split RNC Chair Position
SCSoxFan Monday, November 17th at 11:48AM EST (link)I am in the camp that believes that the RNC Chairman position should be split into two positions, a CEO position that would be responsible for the day-to-day operations of the RNC and, especially, its fundraising, recruitment, and party development activities (internet, voter outreach, etc.) and a General Chairman, who would be the public “face” of the party and have the responsibility of presenting our philosophy and ideas to the general public.
I agree that the CEO slot should be a RNC member, like Katon Dawson of SC. For General Chairman, my first choice would be Fred Thompson. I believe there is no one in the party who can better explain conservative policies and principles in a way easily understood by average Americans. Bit, I can support Mr. Steele in the Gen. Chairman position as well. Mr. Gingrich is an “ideas man” not suited to party building. This, combined with his negative image in the country at large makes him, in my opinion, wrong for a RNC leadership position. He should remain in his think-tank position and serve as an incubator for conservative governing ideas, his best destiny.
The number one job of the rnc
DGaines Monday, November 17th at 12:03PM EST (link)chair is to recruit and organize. If you want to be the face of the party run for office. If we don’t recruit better candidates at all levels and most importantly among hispanics we are on a losing track for the future.
In addition anyone closely connected with the RLC is a non starter for me and sends the wrong signals to both the party and the media about where we think we need to be.
The RMSP is not my only target...I had a piece planned fot the RLC before the Steele for RNC Chair ever came up
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 12:08PM EST (link)The elections got me to back of the RMSP and McCain because as much as I despise them I despise the Dems more…The Gloves are off now and I’ll be working on exposing as many of these squish groups as possible…
Oh…now that the election is over…I’ll point you to last year’s, (maybe the year before)recipient of the RMSP Chafee Award…which goes to the squish who has done most to advance a “Moderate, (read liberal) agenda….it’s none other than John Sydney McCain!
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
Big Tent vs. Small Tent
EastCoastObserver Monday, November 17th at 12:12PM EST (link)Rahm Emanuel started taking in a lot of conservative dems in 2006 in order to make the party into “big tent” party. They started accepting pro-gun and pro-life democrats and picked off many House and Senate seats. This was furthered by Dean and Obama’s 50 state strategy this year, which picked off states like NC, VA, and IN for the first time in decades.
Its hard to gain control of govt. if the GOP narrows itself to only its base. This seems to be the argument within the GOP nowadays. Some say go back to the conservative roots and some, like Steele, want to broaden the appeal of the GOP beyond conservatives. I understand you (Erick) being weary of broadening in that it will dilute conservative ideals, but you need to be the Big Tent party to get back control. You need a broader coalition.
Those Who Don't Want Mitt To Run in 2012
Swamp_Yankee Monday, November 17th at 12:23PM EST (link)Might be wise to push him for this post. Put aside your primary sentiments. The guy is a brainiac. He is a world class CEO. He understands fundraising and organization. He has no interest in Michigan or Utah and no future in Mass.
Not Dead Yet!
Bait and switch
Kyle-MI Monday, November 17th at 12:49PM EST (link)I have no problems with us recruiting liberal candidates for liberal areas. I do have a problem with us putting liberals or squishes in places of power within the national party. Dean was no conservative, no moderate, and definitely no squish. Can you point to any conservative in the Democratic power structure?
bingo
Streiff Monday, November 17th at 12:53PM EST (link)that is the discussion in a nutshell. How that becomes purging moderates and squishes from the party is beyond me.
“A man does what he can and endures what he must.”
Mitt does not want the job...
rhino53 Monday, November 17th at 12:59PM EST (link)And Steele makes perfect sense. Ask people who the chairman of the RNC was and they most likely could not tell you. Ask who was the chairman of the DNC and they would say rather quickly: Dean. I understand the role of the chairman. Make Steele the man and he would have a face quickly. There are always people to put around him to make him work. Yes, we do need a face at this point in time. Not over and against Obama, but to show we are not just a bunch of old white guys. Like it or not that is the way we are seen. He would be a great choice in my opinion.
That's actually the proposal I would've suggested.
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 1:02PM EST (link)Same thing with a lot of campaigns. The person you put as your treasurer or your campaign face is a bigshot-someone who can go out there and lend their name and be the voice. You have someone else in the actual role of running the show, though-someone who’s a workhorse and knows how to get the job done.
As far as FDT or Newt as the face of the party, he’s an effective guy, but I think that our losses this year gives us the chance as a party to rebuild. This is the time to get new faces that will be around for years to come. Use FDT and Newt as the guys to go on the TV shows as conservative commentators, but don’t put them in an official position. Let them use their celebrity to give us more people on the shows. Instead, put some younger guys, proven but effective, in those official roles to lend them more credibility. FDT, Newt, and guys like that are going to be listened to and be effective whether or not they have a title.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
Our biggest problem is that much of our party
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 1:20PM EST (link)relies on only single-issue stances. I’m not trying to make an argument that we should go “centrist”, but take the primaries for example. We had two candidates in Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee who were anethema and euphoria, respectively, to only one part of the conservative coalition. I make no bones about the fact that I supported Romney. I actually had a non-official official role within his campaign here in mid-Missouri, and I can’t tell you how many people wouldn’t even consider Romney for no other reason other than he used to be pro-choice at one point. Meanwhile, there were people who were supporting Huckabee for no other reason than he was the most pro-life candidate you could ever find. Now, if you went outside the bounds of the pro-life discussion and focus on every other issue, the people I refer to above would agree with Romney’s stance on almost every single point, and disagree with Huckabee’s position.
But it’s not just pro-life. It’s national security conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and the rest of the conservative coalition that needs to realize this. We need to come to a conclusion that we can’t be worrying about who’s more conservative, or who can reach more people, or whatever you might think. We need to realize that our party needs to work more like a family. We may not always agree on everything, but at the end of the day, we are conservatives and Republicans. That needs to be the primary focus.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
Steele likes Puppies
Alberta Monday, November 17th at 1:25PM EST (link)Look it up, best political commercial ever.
Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right.
Abraham Lincoln
The 100 Percenters
Achance Monday, November 17th at 1:36PM EST (link)are what kept the Ds in the Wilderness for so long; if you weren’t 100% right on core issues, you were 100% wrong. They finally figured it out. You still have to be a 100% Lefty to be in leadership or an operative, but you can be whatever it takes to get elected to be a candidate - so long as you vote with the caucus on procedure.
In Vino Veritas
Some people are single issue oriented
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 1:44PM EST (link)It’s hard to convince someone who is pro-life but has no real interest in economics or national security to vote for someone based on their position regarding the tax code.
Some Rudy supporters said to me, “Who cares about marriage? Who cares about abortion? Let’s get someone who’s good on the economy and the war on terror.”
Some Huckabee supporters who said to me, “Pro-life is my life. I care about babies’ lives more than money. I care about marriage more than money.”
And it’s hard to argue with either of them. They are entitled to their priorities.
You can’t give a socially liberal free-market conservative a brain transplant (or a spirituality transplant) and make him more concerned about gay marriage than the double taxation of dividends.
Can we educate the different factions within our party so that they can learn to appreciate the other factions instead of resent them?
I think we must. Otherwise we’ll end up like Canada’s Right of Center political movement: Soc-Cons in one party; E-Cons in the other party.
The Obama Bread Lines
Nick Haynes...question for you....
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 1:45PM EST (link)WRT to this:
Who is the Father? Who has the final say as to what is and is not allowed within our “family”? This is the question at hand. Will it be a conservative or a moderate? If it is a moderate than we will continue with the same results as 06 and 08. We need to establish a conservative as the father figure in our family. Is Steele a conservative or is he a moderate in conservative clothing? At this point I believe he is the latter.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
That is the key question indeed (nt)
Neil Stevens Monday, November 17th at 1:46PM EST (link)Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
I am not sure which question you're referring to, Neil.
bs Monday, November 17th at 1:55PM EST (link)I assume you’re referring to “Who is the father?” And if it is, I think we are in agreement.
Because, IMHO, the key question is “what part of the family will LEAD the party?” I think there’s room in the party for those with differing opinions, but we need to be clear on the philosophical position we want from our leadership. That means being clear on the party platform, and while it’s documented on the GOP web site, I get the impression that it’s up for discussion (which I think is a mistake, but this is probably the time to discuss it, if at all). The leadership must be in complete agreement with the platform, or the platform ain’t worth the electrons it’s typed with. And I think that’s one of the questions about Steele.
And also, IMHO, we must marginalize the RLC & RMSP influence. They can stay in the party if they desire, but they cannot lead.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
I agree
JG Monday, November 17th at 2:03PM EST (link)I like Steele, but we should put a person in there with a history of winning elections. If we want to play the ethnic games, then we should find a qualified Hispanic, as that group has at least shown, at times, a chance to vote republican.
No
EastCoastObserver Monday, November 17th at 2:05PM EST (link)You are correct. Dean is definitely not a Blue Dog, but he still understood the need to go after more conservative leaning people through his 50 state strategy that Obama co-opted. But if Steele is not conservative enough then the next chairman should be a conservative that will diligently go after more liberal republicans and not shut them out.
An example of this on the Democratic side was changing a lot of the pro-choice rhetoric in the platform in order to be more accepting of pro-life Democrats. Sen. Bob Casey wasn’t given a speaking role at the ‘96 convention, because of the fear of a backlash, but this year he was a diligent supporter of Obama and did have a speaking role at the convention.
yep..
EastCoastObserver Monday, November 17th at 2:07PM EST (link)Steele was maybe one of the 2 black faces I saw at the Convention.
A moderate RNC chair would be okay if..
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 2:14PM EST (link)A moderate RNC Chair would be acceptable if he would not exclude conservatives. I guess my question isn’t: Does Michael Steele take a conservative position on this issue or that issue. My question is: What role does he see social conservatism playing in the GOP? What role does he see the argument for limited government playing in the GOP?
Those are the issues from my perspective. I’ll be less forgiving when it comes time to nominate a candidate for elective office. But for a party chairman, I want an inclusive (but not brain dead) chairman.
When I lived in Colorado we elected a Pro-Life Chairman. I thought he’d be great.
But then he went off on his own single-issue rants on abortion and wouldn’t even endorse the GOP candidate for Governor (Bill Owens) in 1998. The race ended up being decided by a few thousand votes.
It’s okay to be a single issue pro-lifer. Just not as chairman of the RNC.
The Obama Bread Lines
Erick, you raise very legitimate concerns about Michael Steele
ZootSuit Monday, November 17th at 2:18PM EST (link)And I say that as someone who thinks Steele would be a very good selection as RNC Chairman.
First of all, let me say that I am incensed by those Republicans who think Steele should be RNC Chairman because he is “a mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”
Frankly, I have called liberal Democrats who think like that racists. Erstwhile conservative Republicans who think like that are just as racist!
But to the point of Michael Steele himself, I find it most disheartening is, as you say, he does not know what the RNC Chairman does. If true — and forgive me if I am a bit skeptical of your claim, if only because he was once the head of the Maryland GOP — then that alone should disqualify him.
But perhaps my understanding of what the RNC Chairman’s responsibilities are is mistaken. I think that the RNC Chairman has three general duties:
As far as organization skills go, I do think Michael Steele is top-notch. During his tenure as head of the Maryland GOP was the only time the Maryland GOP had any life. Indeed, quite frankly, I think the primary reason that Robert Ehrlich won the Maryland governorship in 2002 was because of the groundwork and organizational framework put in place by his then running-mate, Michael Steele, when he was head of the head of the Maryland GOP. Furthermore, Steele’s run for the U.S. Senate in 2006 was also a testament to his organizational skills. Yes, Michael Steele lost badly, but considering the headwinds he was running against, he still did quite well. Indeed, although Ben Cardin was always ahead in the polls, Steele’s campaign was definitely the more aggressive and consistently but Cardin on the defensive.
As far as the recruitment of GOP candidates, Steele does have a less successful record here. I do not think he has a bad one, I just don’t think he has an exceptionally good one. To his credit, however, I think he has the ability to speak to both GOP “conservatives” as well as “moderates.” He himself is fairly conservative (affirmative action probably excepting) but he can also motivate moderates. Perhaps that is a byproduct of his living in liberal Maryland. And truth be known, I cannot think of many people who, considering the political milieu of Maryland, have or could be much better than Steele under the circumstances.
As for abortion, I think it is best to say that Michael Steele is “confused” like most Americans. Michael Steele does say (like most Americans) that Roe v. Wade should be maintained under the doctrine of stare decisis. However, he also thinks that abortion is murder and should be outlawed under most circumstances (also like most Americans). Yes, I think there is a great deal of cognitive dissonance going on in Steele’s head about abortion and can most definitely understand why this could be a “deal-breaker” for many. Trust me, I do understand. About the only good thing I can say about Steele’s take is that, again, it probably does mirror the thinking of most people on the subject: abortion is wrong and should be prohibited under most circumstances but Roe v. Wade should stand.
As for his ability articulate a conservative message, that, interestingly enough, may be his most problematic area. Make no mistake, Steele can articulate a very conservative message. As others here on RedState have noted, when he ran for the Senate in 2006 (and even when he was running for Lieutenant Governor in 2002, when he was Erhlich’s more conservative running mate), Michael Steele did not apologize for his conservative beliefs. Good for him! The problem is, however, that his same “big tent” mentality that makes him non-threatening to moderates occasionally also prohibits him from forcefully articulating a conservative message all the time. While I do think there is a time and place for a “big tent” mentality — hey, let’s face it, there is no way a “Jesse Helms” type of Republican will ever win in Maine — I do think that Steele goes overboard at times.
All in all, however, I think Michael Steele would be an excellent choice as RNC Chairman. Indeed, I think he would be the best choice among the front runners I have heard about so far.
Fred Thompson was my first choice for President this year and I cannot think of a better voice to articulate a conservative message. However, if his Presidential campaign is any guide, I don’t think he has the organizational ability to be the RNC Chairman.
Newt Gingrich is also a good voice for conservatism and is a great “idea” man. Moreover, in terms of recruiting, I think he could be the best of the bunch. However, I also think Gingrich is a flake who thinks more of his ideas than he should (e.g. I will never forget that while he was Speaker of the House, he came up with an idea to give poor kids laptop computers; thankfully his idea went nowhere). Also, I seriously question his long-term organizational abilities: Gingrich seems like the type of man who is always looking for his latest idea but who has a limited attention span to completely follow through on his last idea. Besides, if the rumors are correct, he is supporting Michael Steele now.
Finally, Mitt Romney may be the best of the bunch outside of Michael Steele. His organizational abilities cannot be disputed: look at his wins in the caucuses (notice that I did not say primaries) and his success in the private sector. Plus, with his money and “fame,” I don’t think he would have any trouble recruiting candidates, especially if he is willing to contribute a bit of the former. The problem with Mitt Romney is, however, I still don’t trust him. Let’s not forget that, until his run for the GOP nomination, Romney has never run anything as a conservative. Shall I mention his Senate campaign pledge to be “more supportive of gay rights” than Ted Kennedy or enacting “Romney-Care” while he Governor of Massachusetts. And speaking of auto industry bailouts, let’s not forget that one of the reasons he won Michigan is he promised the auto industry $20 billion in “assistance.” My fear with Romney is that he is able to parrot the conservative lines but I question if he really believe them. The real question about him is, as RNC Chairman, would it really matter?
***** Unrepentant African-American nationalist, Unapologetic African-American conservative!
The "father" has to be a conservative
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 2:24PM EST (link)That much is, I think, a given. What I’m talking about is someone who is a big C conservative but not be divisive about it. GWB and JSM3 are not big C conservatives. Sarah Palin is, and I love her to death, but I think one of the big things that we seen was that she can be a polarizing figure at times. She might be more beneficial that she is detrimental, but I think we can all agree that the level of vitriol that she inspired in some people was off the charts. One of the reasons we all go back to Reagan is because this was the mold he fit. He was a big C conservative, but he also brought those who disagreed with him on quite a few issues into the tent.
As far as who determines who to bring into the party, we need to realize that what works in one neck of the woods isn’t going to work in the other. We should always work to turn things more conservative, but if it comes down to someone who is going to be more moderate or even slightly liberal and a Republican, or very liberal and a Democrat, I’ll chose the Republican. We had folks like Ann Coulter who always railed on guys like Chris Shays. The problem with that, Ann (bless her heart), is that throwing moderates out of the party for the sake of purity is akin to cutting off your nose because you have a pimple and it makes your face look bad. Well, congratulations, Ann. Now we have to win 35 seats just to be in the majority and have our leaders in control of the House. Well done. Oh, sure, we might have the freshest coat of paint in our room, but what good does that do when the rest of the house is burning down?
You work to turn things more conservative, but at the end of the day, you have to go with what you can get. If we’re always railing on moderates left and right, all you’re doing is making the perfect the enemy of the good or the good enough, and that’s a perfect way to ensure that we don’t have any sort of power.
And, FWIW, this isn’t necessarily about Steele or whether he would be the best candidate. This is in regards to a general philosophy that I’ve seen emanate more and more from our side of the aisle. We had a majority and the White House, and rather than working to extend that majority, we started worrying about purifying the majority.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
Spiral...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 2:37PM EST (link)First if you are going to reply to a comment from me please stick to the subject at hand instead of going off about single issue voters.
I am saying that we need a conservative at the helm because to be conservative means that you are not willing to abandon principle on any issues. To be a moderate you must believe that all principles are open to negotiation.
If I wanted a pragmatist progressive party I would register as a democrat. Now that isn’t to say that moderates aren’t welcome in the party. I am just saying that they don’t run the party, and with that, they don’t get to decide to compromise principles established by the party. If they are personally pro-choice, fine? Vote your conscience on the floor of the House or the Senate, but the party line is _ (fill in the blank). Let the voters decide based on their votes on the floor when re-election time draws near.
Also I want to tell you that everyone who claims moderates to not be single issues voters are wrong. If a moderate won’t vote for a pro-life agenda isn’t he being a single issue voter? The answer is yes. In fact moderates are the quintessential single issue voters, they vote on each issue as a singularity with no regard to the underlying principles that bind all issues together.
This was displayed by the incoherent campaign of John McCain. It was a collection of single issues rather than one coherent theme based on principles that connect all issues in order to form the greater policy.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
agree 100%
DGaines Monday, November 17th at 2:38PM EST (link)nt
There's really very few choices
Loozianajay Monday, November 17th at 2:40PM EST (link)Karl Rove- Seriously, is there a better choice?
Fred Thompson- I think that job was made for him.
Newt Gingrich- Why not, sometimes you just have to do things yourself.
**Mike Huckabee- Yes, and no I’m not crazy. I’m not real convinced he is going to run in 12. Furthermore, he is a deep thinker and takes pride in thinking outside the box. Furthermore, he just gets “it”. I think he would be a dynamic operator.
I'd Pass on Steele
DC71 Monday, November 17th at 2:48PM EST (link)I’m familiar with Steele from his days in MD and his run against Cardin. He ran a pretty good race up until election day and I actually liked him as a person, though I disagree with him on policy. It was some of the shady stuff he did with Ehrlich which in that election that made me lose all respect for him.
You have to ask yourself this…..Do you really want the leader of your party to be a guy whose campaign bused homeless people from Philadelphia to the African-American areas outside of DC to hand out literature that falsely claimed prominent African-American leaders in the community were supporting him and Ehrlich? When choosing your leader, you need to find someone who is willing to express their opinions and make their case in a strong manner, convincing manner. What you don’t want is someone who was is willing to go along with a plan to gain votes by confusing voters. It’s cynical politics at it’s worse. You guys can do better than that and are going to have to broaden your base of support in minority communities.
You also have to ignore his ethnicity here too. If you think that having an African-American as RNC chair is going to get you votes, you are in for a rude awaking. Remember, in Steele’s Senate race, he only received 25% of the AA vote. While 10% better than Ehrlich in his Governors race, it doesn’t show AA’s flocking to him because of race.
Yes, who will be the decider?
Neil Stevens Monday, November 17th at 2:48PM EST (link)We had a ‘compassionate conservative’ as a decider for the last eight years, and we’ve lost everything.
Want to run for conservatives? Give.
There Is No Crisis
Sure. Pro-abortion is a single issue too.
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 2:50PM EST (link)I agree. A pro-abortion person can be just as “single issue” oriented as a pro-life person.
In other words, if someone says, “I could never vote for a pro-life candidate because I support abortion and on that issue I will not compromise,” that’s a single issue pro-abortion person.
My opinion is that we should not insist that the RNC chairman take the conservative position on every issue. I think the important point is that they are willing to recruit and work with people from all factions of the party.
For example. I am moderately pro-life. But I liked Guiliani a lot more than Huckabee.
I took exception to Huckabee calling the Club for Growth the Club for Greed. But I didn’t like the fact that Giuliani supported taxpayer funding of abortion.
Perhaps a “pay no taxes for abortion” is ground where all Republicans can unite.
The Obama Bread Lines
Yes, there is a better choice than Karl Rove.
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 2:51PM EST (link)In fact, I would say there are several better choices. As a matter of fact, I would take Bozo the Clown, or Deputy Dog, or almost anyone over Karl Rove.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
Nick Haynes, I diagree!
ZootSuit Monday, November 17th at 2:58PM EST (link)If the choice came down to either Mike Huckabee or Karl Rove … I’d start my own political party.
“Mike Huckabee … a deep thinker.”
That was the funniest thing I’ve read in quite a while!
***** Unrepentant African-American nationalist, Unapologetic African-American conservative!
One problem here Nick....
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 3:00PM EST (link)I would say this is absolute bs. Since 2000 the party has gone more moderate not less moderate. And that led to conservatives either leaving the party or staying home when it counted. They believed that by moderation they would insure an extended majority, they were wrong. To deny this is to deny the truth. If the party had instead done what they said they stood for and reduced the expenditures and size of gov’t we would probably still hold majorities in both the House and the Senate.
We did not get voted out because of our fiscal restraint, we got voted out because we abandoned fiscal restraint. Medicare part D didn’t expand our tent, it cause mistrust on the part of the voter. We walked away from conservatism and into moderation and it lost us control of our Party and our Nation.
Why you would advocate for more moderation at this point seems truly illogical.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I confess, I forgot about that
ZootSuit Monday, November 17th at 3:04PM EST (link)But if i am not mistaken, the trail lead mostly to Ehrlich’s office, not to Steele’s.
But yes, it was inexcusable.
***** Unrepentant African-American nationalist, Unapologetic African-American conservative!
Maybe I should have clarified.
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 4:26PM EST (link)As activists, we worked to do that, and a lot of the Republican leadership in Congress did as well-on certain issues. We went moderate on issues we should have went conservative, and we went too conservative on issues where we should have been moderate. We had no problem with handing out money like it was candy on Halloween, but we didn’t have a problem with the overarching reach of government when it came to private issues like sexuality.
That’s why I brought up Coulter. On fiscal issues, Shays falls more in line with a conservative than a moderate or liberal stance. Fiscal conservatism is almost always an issue that works. But he’s more moderate on social issues, which is really a reflection of fair members of the citizenry, and really representative of his constituents. Meanwhile, we have congressmen who think nothing of spending away every cent we’ll ever make for the next hundred years (give or take a few), but insist that banning gay marriage is the most important issue we’ll ever face.
Let me make it clear: I’m fervently pro-life, and I think our entire system of “marriage” needs to be done away with, as it’s the state getting involved in church affairs. But I realize that these are not the most important issues Congress will ever deal with. Until we get SCOTUS justices that actually recognize that the Constitution doesn’t represent what 5 of 9 lawyers want it to represent, that issue can have precious little done with it. As far as other social issues, I think we have to rebrand our positions and also realize that there are other more pressing issues.
And, as far as my purifying the majority statement, I saw precious little work done in areas where there should have been work done. We gave the Northeast and the West Coast up for dead-except for when we had a seat there. Then, we as activists worked to make sure that the officeholder was “sufficiently conservative”, and the party apparatus also chose its battles wrongly. We funneled money as activists to Toomey’s primary election against Specter, when I would say that Specter isn’t bad most of the time but doesn’t always follow the party line. Meanwhile, the party funneled money to Chafee in a primary and then in the general, despite every indication that Chafee wouldn’t win if Whitehouse was caught with a dead girl and a live boy at the same time while simultaneously defacing the U.S. flag and a copy of the Constitution-and in doing so, ignored several races that were winnable and would’ve retained a majority, such as VA, MO, MT, and MN (among others).
We as a party need to prioritize and come together to realize that, for all the faults that might lie in a Chris Shays, Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe, etc., they are infinitely better than their Democratic replacements will be. They don’t need to lead the party, but we as activists don’t need to boot them. On most issues, they’re good, including the issues that really lost us the election: spending and taxation.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
And pulling a Kowalski,
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 4:28PM EST (link)if I’m seeming like I’m all over the map with my statements, I apologize. I’m having to write a book review for class on an Alan Dershowitz book, which as you can imagine is not necessarily the easiest task.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
I didn't even catch the deep thinker remark.
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 4:29PM EST (link)I just find it odd that so many people here (even a couple is a lot) have seen the failure of Rovian politics and where they inevitably lead you, and are saying that that’s what we need as a party.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
Well said.
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 4:33PM EST (link)McCain’s theme seemed to be that this was his time and his turn to be president, and he was going to put forth a policy based on what got him the most votes. Only on Iraq and the GWOT did I see a consistency from him. I think a lot of voters were turned off by that. The only difference between our side and theirs was that they don’t necessarily see power as an end to be a bad thing. Ours does.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
As I mentioned below, I think Bush had it backwards
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 4:47PM EST (link)If you’re going to be “moderate” on anything, it should be social issues. Instead, he was rigid on those issues. On economic issues, though, he was willing to bend to the point that Gumby would’ve admired his flexibility.
The “decider” has to be a conservative. But we as a party have to be more understanding that not everyone is going to agree with us down the line on our issues, and we need to take an equation of sorts into account-prioritize what’s most important both philosophically and practically-and not be so rigid. I think we might have had a fighting chance downticket if we had taken this philosophy into account in some ways this year.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
Nick....you are a bit all over the map here...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 4:49PM EST (link)And likely that is the cause of confusion.
Everything that I post in this thread is about the RNC Chair position and the principles that should be put forth by that position. I don’t care one iota about Shays views overall or Ann Coulter. Rather my point are whether the party will stand for principles or issues.
Three legged stool conservatism is about shared principles which bind us together as a party and help shape the policies that we wish to enact. The leader therefore must understand those principles and allow for those principles to guide him in his duties. A moderate cannot by definition do this because he is not bound by principle. A moderate does not understand how each issue is connected to the underlying principles and therefore compromises principles when reaching a policy on any given issue. A moderate who is pro-choice does not have a firm foundation in the principle of life and therefore will often compromise on an issue such as ESCR. Although these are two different issues, abortion and ESCR, they are bound by a common principle.
I don’t want Snowe, Shays, or Specter out of the party, I just don’t want them in leadership. Especially when they don’t always caucus with us on procedure. Like I have said before, feel free to vote on the floor in respect to your personal beliefs on any given issue, but don’t expect to be put into a position of leadership for it. Compromising principles should not lead to a promotion.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
That's where the "I was a POW" line got old
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 4:53PM EST (link)McCain tried to make the case that his character was formed by his time as a POW. But that gave many voters, I suspect, the impression that for McCain the election was “all about him” not about the voters.
It was as though McCain was communicating his belief that he was owed the White House since he had suffered so much serving his country. It was a campaign about a personality rather than a campaign about policy.
Sure, Obama’s campaign was partially about personality too. But for the most part, Obama was careful to keep his biography in the background because the more people knew about Obama’s background, the less people liked him.
I never understood why McCain went out of his way to vote against the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 only to support them when he was in the 2008 presidential race and trying to separate himself from George W Bush.
McCain just left you wondering what his next publicity stunt would be.
The Obama Bread Lines
Because that was one of the few things
Nick Haynes Monday, November 17th at 4:58PM EST (link)that people did like about Bush’s time in office.
If you’re not networking, you’re not helping.
I've heard the line
jayx588 Monday, November 17th at 5:12PM EST (link)the party lost in 2006/2008 because it went too moderate. I disagree as a moderate, but that’s a given.
We all have our selling points. Conservatives will point to John McCain and say his moderate “maverick” views is what kept conservative voters at home. I’ll point to crazy Sarah Palin as my excuse for why I voted for Obama(with extreme reservations…I stood in the voting booth for about 10 minutes).
The point is that socons effectively control the hierarchy to the Republican Party, and thus, you guys have the power to retool the Republican Party more conservative or moderate.
Thus, if socons believe that the party tanked in 2006/2008 because the party was too moderate, then of course, they can steer the party more right. However, make sure that gamble is one you’re willing to take.
If Republicans love heavily in 2010, not only is redistricting going to screw Republicans over, but Democrats will have national political control for the next decade.
Hey Jayx588 Obama supporter and voter...nice to know you disagree with history....
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 5:29PM EST (link)as is the saying you are doomed to repeat it…Oh and I immediately discount any advice you give since:
and
And you are a case in point on what I mean about moderates. You have no principle, so much so that you voted for Obama and believe that Federalism is only for SoCons. Additionally you smear the VP pick of the GOP by claiming her to be crazy while providing no proof. Must have just been her Christian beliefs that made you say that, huh?
Why is it that tolerant moderates like you hate Christians so much? I mean that doesn’t seem very tolerant now does it.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Don't moderates have principles too?
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 5:33PM EST (link)If someone supports the Medicare Prescription Drug bill passed by the Congress and signed by Bush in 2003, does that make that person a moderate or can he still be a conservative?
What about farm subsidies? Can the RNC chairman support farm subsidies?
How about increasing the minimum wage? Or the existance of the federal reserve?
Lots of people think that these are issues of principle too. But we would be out of our minds if we said that the RNC chairman can not be “out of line” on these issues because this means “they have no principles?
The Obama Bread Lines
Example. Rick Santorum voted for Prescription Drug
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 5:37PM EST (link)Rick Santorum voted for Bush’s Medicare Prescription Drug bill in 2003, allying himself with George W Bush.
If you believe that this bill was a violation of the principle of fiscal conservatism, does that mean that Rick Santorum would not be qualified to be RNC chairman?
It think that Santorum would be qualified, even though I disagree with Santorum on the Medicare Prescription Drug bill that he supported.
The Obama Bread Lines
Unpredictable
bs Monday, November 17th at 5:42PM EST (link)Inconsistent. All over the map.
Center? What Center?
A moderate cannot lead No one will know where they intend to go. They are welcome in the party, but the leader must be someone that is totally bought into the GOP strategy and platform. That is not a so-called “moderate”.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
Is Rick Santorum "all over the map?"
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 5:45PM EST (link)Rick Santorum voted for Bush’s Medicare expansion, the Prescription Drug bill in 2003.
So, even though Santorum is pro-life, his fiscal conservatism might be questionable.
Does that make Santorum a moderate and, if so, does that mean that he would not be qualified to be RNC chairman?
Or is the pro-life issue the only test of conservatism?
The Obama Bread Lines
Did I say that?
bs Monday, November 17th at 5:48PM EST (link)Don’t put words in my mouth and learn to read. I said, and I quote “the leader must be someone that is totally bought into the GOP strategy and platform“
Sounds like you have a burr in your butt about socons. Not surprising, as those who complain the loudest about moderates tend to have that agenda.
If you feel that Santorum fulfills that qualification, then perhaps he qualifies.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
Spiral...See Russel Kirk...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 5:48PM EST (link)Ten Principles of Conservatism
If you follow these principles you are a conservative, if you don’t you are either a moderate or you belong on the other side of the aisle.
I will provide the bullets but go to the site for the full text.
*First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order
*Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity
*Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription
*Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence
*Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety
*Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability
*Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked
*Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism
*Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions
*Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society
Once you understand these and understand the difference between the principles, the issues, and the policies, I will gladly engage you further.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Why Steele?
kingfish Monday, November 17th at 5:48PM EST (link)He was a lt. governor. He couldn’t win an election to Congress in his own state. Besides sounding great on Fox News, what has he done to show he is qualified to be RNC Chair?
Let me Kowalski
bs Monday, November 17th at 5:52PM EST (link)and answer directly: No, in my opinion he is not qualified. Those votes are in opposition to support for smaller government and lower spending.
He’s a Republican. But the leadership we need is leadership in all three legs of the conservative stool. Massive spending increases of the Bush “compassionate conservative” agenda cuts off the FiCon leg of the stool.
Decorum is fo’ suckas
Aaron, you dodged my question.
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 5:52PM EST (link)Is Rick Santorum qualified to be RNC chairman?
Remember, he voted for the Prescription drug bill.
It sounds to me like Rick Santorum would be acceptable to you.
Fine. He would be acceptable to me as well.
But let’s not fool ourselves. Santorum violated principles of fiscal conservatism when he voted for Bush’s Medicare entitlement expansion.
The Obama Bread Lines
bs. Thanks. You think Santorum is not qualified
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 5:55PM EST (link)Good. That’s a straight-forward answer.
It just seems like it hard to know who really qualifies as a conservative these days.
The Obama Bread Lines
Spiral I didn't dodge your question...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 5:56PM EST (link)You just didn’t understand my answer.
And no I wouldn’t support Rick Santorum.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Spiral don't be an ass....I provided you with the guidelines of what a conservative is...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 5:59PM EST (link)The only people who seem to be unclear on what conservatism is are those who wish to redefine it like you. Go read.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
OK Erick...here's my RMSP info...at least part of it...More to follow if there is enough interest.
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 6:01PM EST (link)http://www.redstate.com/diaries/aceintx/2008/nov/17/update-the-rmsp-a-liberal-insurgency-in-our/
UPDATE: The RMSP, A Liberal Insurgency In Our MiUPDATE: The RMSP; A Liberal Insurgency In Our Midst: Part 1 dst: Part 1
What Everyone Should Know About The RMSP And Their Sister Organizations
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
Aaron. At least you are consistent
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 6:04PM EST (link)For a moment there it seemed like abortion was the only issue of principle that a Republican had to meet.
But I see that you are applying this principle to fiscal issues and social issues.
Good.
Personally, I think that this standard eliminates too many people from the position. I would accept either Rick Santorum or Michael Steele.
But we agree to disagree.
The Obama Bread Lines
Spiral...conservative tend to be consitent...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 6:11PM EST (link)That’s the precise reason why gov’t is run better under them.
Seriously, you should go to the site I linked and look at the principles of conservatism. Anyone claiming to be a conservative who doesn’t guide his decisions by those principles is not a conservative.
Let me be clear that I don’t want to throw you out of the party, I just don’t want to put you in charge of it. Moderation can be a good thing but moderation for the sake of moderation, or moderation without underlying principles is worthless.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
5 <nt>
bs Monday, November 17th at 6:13PM EST (link)Decorum is fo’ suckas
Thank you for bringing this to my attention
Josh417 Monday, November 17th at 6:14PM EST (link)Erick, I can’t thank you enough for bringing some of these items to my attention. I am ashamed to admit that I’m not as well informed on policy positions of all the GOP leaders as I should be.
Thankfully, I have RedState to get the meat of what people really stand for and what is really going on.
I disagree with people who think the GOP needs to get away from social issues, in order to be “big tent”. I think the “big tent” philosophy is what has gotten us where we are today.
Being pro-life is, for me, a position I will not and cannot compromise on. The social issues are what motivates the base of the party to knock on doors, make phone calls, and work for their candidates. If we lose that, we fall right into the Democrats trap.
The Republican Party must be a clear contrast to the Democrats. Not a middle of the road, philosophically aloof party. If we compromise on social issues, we’ll continue to get pounded at the polls.
This country is conservative at her root. The majority of Americans agree with social conservatism. Look at Prop 8, etc.
What we need is someone who can clearly communicate the ideas of social and fiscal conservatism so taht the heartland of America can really grasp the difference between the two parties. For too long that has been lacking.
We must not compromise on our values and our core principles. If we do, 2008 will look like a walk in the park.
Thank you Erick for pointing out the errors in Lt. Gov. Steele’s positions. Until I read this, I would have supported him.
What about Chip Saltsman? He had no money, no organization, and led the Huckabee campaign on a good run.
Any thoughts on him?
You are correct
kingfish Monday, November 17th at 6:15PM EST (link)but if he takes a stack of absentee ballots to the nursing home I won’t get too upset either.
An RLC type is likely a "Big Tent" Republicrat" who would recruit the same
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 6:29PM EST (link)as candidates
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
It is hard to know what is conservative nowadays
ZootSuit Monday, November 17th at 6:31PM EST (link)Our problem is that we have defined conservatism down to mean being nothing more than pro-life. You can support the biggest expansion of government since FDR and a Federal “bailout” of private banks but as long as you are pro-life, you are considered conservative. Thus, we have a bunch of pro-life liberals running around, masquerading as conservatives. George W. Bush as Exhibit A and Mike Huckabee as Exhibit B.
And for that reason, I think we lost and are losing by being both too “conservative” as well as too “moderate.” When the only thing that defines “conservatism” is being pro-life — and the biggest “accomplishment” the American people see for the last eight years of a so-called “conservative” Administration is the largest increase in the size of government since FDR and the concomitant market adjustments — it is no wonder many erstwhile Republican voters are turned off.
Please make no mistake: I am personally very pro-life and think the Republican Party should remain so. But, as I explain elsewhere on this page in when discussing Michael Steele’s views on abortion, unfortunately the majority (or at least a plurality) of Americans display a great deal of cognitive dissonance on the issue. They think abortion is wrong and want fewer of them but they are extremely uneasy taking the steps necessary for there to be fewer abortions. Thus, when we present ourselves as “only” the pro-life party, or socially conservative party, we turn off a lot of people who would listen and even vote for us otherwise.
Consider Ronald Reagan.
There can be no doubt that Ronald Reagan was firmly pro-life and a social conservative. Unlike many Republicans today, he did not prevaricate on that issue. But Ronald Reagan was so much more than that, his conservatism was so much more than that, that many Americans who disagreed with him on abortion still fervently supported him.
Did he win every pro-choice vote? Of course not. But he won enough to win two sweeping electoral majorities. And that can, and should, be us today.
That is the “big tent” we need today. Not by moderating any of our conservative principles but by being firm on ALL of our conservative principles. Thus, those who might not agree with us 100%, such as those Republicans who are indeed pro-choice, can still enthusiastically support us and vote for us on the other 70% or 80%.
***** Unrepentant African-American nationalist, Unapologetic African-American conservative!
Yeah...Rahm and Dean did that...but their moderates don't run the party...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 6:32PM EST (link)they elect them and then make them vote the Party line…
We elect Liberal Republicans and they become our masters…
nice argument you had there….to bad it doesn’t hold water!
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Michael Williams for Senate
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SarahPAC
I also
jayx588 Monday, November 17th at 6:48PM EST (link)voted for Charlie Dent, a Congressional Republican. When I was registered in California, I voted for the current Republican Governor.
But if its your belief that people who vote for Obama makes them effectively a Democrat, and thus, their opinions mean nothing to you, then Republicans really are destined for a permanent minority party status.
Groups who voted for Obama:
Catholics: 54%
Jews: 78%
Women: 56%
Blacks: 95%
Latinos: 67%
Youth: 66%
Effectively the only people who voted for McCain in an overwhelming manner were white males, and even that margin was lower than what Bush won in 2004.
Oh, I don’t have to smear Sarah Palin as an idiot. She can do that herself. There are high schoolers who can cite more Supreme Court cases than her. Next to the fact that McCain had no idea what to do with the economy, Palin was one of the bigger reasons why I didn’t vote for him in the end.
I said I voted for Obama as a pretense for my views as a flipvoter, not as a Democrat.
But if think that attacking everyone who voted for Obama is the method in which to attract moderates back to the Republican Party; by all means, keep doing so.
lol
jayx588 Monday, November 17th at 6:53PM EST (link)I suppose because I’m such a new member, you need “verification” that my opinion means anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRuBdW0yBUY
Outside of Roe v Wade, she couldn’t cite one case…Dred Scott, Plessy, Lawrence, Bakke, Korematsu…and I didn’t even have to google those.
Okay Jay the Obama supporter....
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 6:56PM EST (link)First you call Palin crazy, now you call her an idiot….if you want to be a part of the Republican party even as a moderate maybe you should start by not bashing one of the leaders of the RGA.
And as far as your input on who should lead the party…you gave up your influence by voting for Obama.
Also I only “attacked” you because you attacked Palin.
Tolerant my ass!!
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
I don't need verification Jay the Obama supporter...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 7:03PM EST (link)You supported Obama…therefore you opinion means nothing.
Besides does not knowing a SCOTUS case make one crazy as you said in your first post? Or an idiot as you said in your second? No it doesn’t. I would bet that when it comes to energy policy She would leave you in a corner crying for your mother….does that make you crazy or an idiot, no.
So again quit being an ass.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
You're completely right
jayx588 Monday, November 17th at 7:27PM EST (link)I suppose I did.
Back to my point about how many people voted for Obama; if Republicans are arguing that libertarians and moderates that swung towards Obama have no say in how the Republican Party should reform, then I suppose you’re essentially arguing that you want to purify the party and keep the libertarians/moderates out.
Because that makes real sense. Moderates and libertarians vote for the liberal party, and in order to get them back the conservative party becomes more conservative.
Do I think
jayx588 Monday, November 17th at 7:35PM EST (link)Sarah Palin is an idiot for not knowing a SOTUS case outside of Roe v Wade?
Yes. Not knowing about the travesties of the separate but equal case that lead to the Jim Crow laws?
Korematsu? Forcing a group purely based on race into internment camps?
Dred Scott?
I would hope a governor (or at least someone running for Vice-President) would know about those cases.
Oh, and fyi: Palin’s energy policy isn’t actually rocket science. She wants to increase drilling for oil and natural gas (probably most likely on the Northern Slope of Alaska) while increasing clean energy research.
Now exactly how is that “complicated” or “expert opinion” in any way? I suppose you could say Joe 6-pack could proffer such an opinion.
Or Paris Hilton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPE97oF2iD4
Jay the Obama supporter....
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 7:39PM EST (link)McCain was a moderate and you didn’t vote for him….how far left do we need to go to appease you and what will be left of the party once we go that far left. I am beginning to think you are nothing more than a committed leftist trying to incite divisiveness within our ranks.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
Ok Jay the Obama supporter...
Attack Mode Monday, November 17th at 7:46PM EST (link)I am fully aware of your views on Palin…funny thing is though that you haven’t said anything about Steele, or the RNC Chairmanship.
In other words you are nothing but a troll who is totally off topic and at this point I am just going to ignore you because your only intent here is to argue against all things conservative.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
and he's another moderate that couldn't get himself elected
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 7:50PM EST (link)spending Millions, (Billions?), of his own money….no thanks
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
So we need an affirmative action pick rino53?
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 7:55PM EST (link)Huh!
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
Well...you left out the fiscons who wouldn't support Huckabee for dog catcher...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 8:03PM EST (link)or the anti big government people who knew Romney’s real record that wouldn’t sign in with him…funny how every time people start discussing the intolerance in our ranks it’s always the pro lifers that are the problem…the pro-choicers and pork barrel spenders in the party get a pass for their betrayals and outright hostility to any conservative position because it’s the Ivy League consensus…but it’s those snake handling pro life hillbillies that are always the problem!
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
Therein lies the Rub Achance...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 8:09PM EST (link)We get called 100 percenters because we want Conservatives in leadership of a conservative party…so we give in and end up with liberals on fiscal and social issues in leadership who thumb their noses at the rest of us while the Democrats enforce lockstep compliance on their caucus…
something has to give…and the old definitions and the names the majority of the party are called by our moderate, (Liberal) masters need to change!
House Conservatives Fund
Michael Williams for Senate
Toomey US Senate
SarahPAC
As an across the board conservative I'll say your theory has some merit...but
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 8:16PM EST (link)it’s to simplistic when it comes down to it…
You see Dems recruiting moderates on spending and social issues…but you don’t see any division in their ranks or in votes on the floor of Congress or the Senate respectively…Their whips are out there making sure their caucus is in lockstep and if someone leaves the reservation…they’re punished with crappy committee assignments and frozen out of leadership.
Contrast that to the Republican Party…someone leaves the reservation on our party and our leadership immediately promote them to leadership and they’re given plum committee assignments…I’m torn on whether this is done as a reward for sticking it to the lass refined members of the Party or as appeasement and a bribe to keep them in the party…it doesn’t matter either way because we lose…PERIOD!
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bs...something to think about concerning the Paltform...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 8:33PM EST (link)I’m with you on the platform…I’ve participated on the local and state level to make our state platform what it is…and our state platform and issues raised by it influences the national platform…at least that’s how it used to work…it used to mean something because the activists in the party shape it and make it what it is…which is a statement of principles and what the party believes as a whole…
Well…this year that was all thrown to the wind buy our big tenters…and there was nary a whimper from the party.
Our elitist masters decided it would be a good idea to open up our platform to anybody and every body with a friggin internet connection…so…just like the open primary system we open up our platform to be shaped and influenced to non activists and throw out those who work tirelessly during conventions and in the off years to make this party what it is!
Of course they say it was done to “bring more people into the process and make them feel like they’re a part of the decision making process”…but of course the fact that it waters down our positions and makes it harder to stand against the Liberal Establishment of the party is never mentioned!
I’m livid about it but it’s like everything else…they keep pushing us from so many different angles you can’t focus on issues like this because they’re sticking you in the back as soon as you turn your attention to it with some other issue!
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Well...Imagine that!
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 8:43PM EST (link)So…Bush should have been rigid on Fiscal issues???
But then you offer this bit of wisdom…
So…it’s ok to be rigid as long as it’s not on social issues right?
I’m not sure if that’s what your saying…but it sure looks like it…and that’s why the rank and file of this party are fed up with the leadership of this party because that’s the pap we’re constantly fed!
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I don't think of myself as a moderate
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 8:54PM EST (link)Aaron,
Consider the possibility that your ability to throw my out of the Republican party is identical to my ability to throw you out of the Republican party. But thanks for not wanting to throw me out in any case.
Also consider that your influence over who is RNC chair is probably not much more significant that my influence over that decision.
I don’t consider myself a moderate in the least. I’m not sure I want to bore you by describing my political philosophy and demonstrating that I am a conservative.
But put it this way. Most people who are familiar with my political views would laugh if they knew I was accused of being a moderate Republican.
The Obama Bread Lines
I agree and disagree Zoot...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 9:32PM EST (link)I agree with this part..
What burns my britches is that the your post seems to follow along the lines that SoCons should give ground on their pet issue while everyone else can stand by theirs…If I’m reading this wrong then please correct me…but whether that’s your intent or not…most of our leadership has that attitude!
This is my problem with the party at this point…it’s the…”Fiscal and National security issues are all that matters and you pro lifers need to take a seat at the back of the bus” attitude.
It’s not on just Pro Lifers…I’m an across the board conservative…we can’t win with 2/3s of the coalition…least of all without SoCons…it applies across the board…
The problem we have is that instead of saying “this is what we as a party stand for…and enumerating each and every principle as laid out in our platform…and expecting our leadership to follow those principles…we promote people to leadership that insist on trashing 2/3. of the platform…We’ve got FisCons in leadership that want to cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors We’ve got other FisCons who want to spend and raise taxes…and most of them don’t give two farts in a wind storm what SoCons want or think…We’ve got Tax and Spend SoCons in leadership that want to raise taxes, spend like drunken sailors while sticking to the life issue…and we’ve got National Security Cons in leadership that wouldn’t piss on either of the other two wings to put them out if they were on Fire…Thene there are those like Aaron and I that are true believers in the whole philosophy that just stand back and shake our heads because our leadership is betraying all of us while each wing fights for supremacy over the other wings!
We need to take the focus off of each other…and yes realize that we’re always going to disagree on one point or the other…That’s why we have a Party Platform…what we need to be doing is putting leaders in place who are going to follow the platform and Whips that will Enforce those principles on the Republican caucuses in the House and Senate!
Until this is done we’ll never see a majority again!
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Exactly. Pro-life is only one issue.
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 9:39PM EST (link)Fred Thompson correctly labeled Mike Huckabee a “pro-life liberal.”
I think this willingness to call someone a conservative based entirely on their position regarding aborition represents the soft-underbelly of the conservative movement.
You can be in favor of expanding SCHIP and if you are pro-life, you might still be labeled a conservative.
If the pro-life community makes their issue a litmus test for RNC chair, don’t be surprised if people with other priorities make their issues a litmus test as well. For example, anyone who supports any kind of legalized gambling might be considered “too liberal” for RNC chair.
I’m not saying that winning elections is the only thing that matters. I think you have to have some underlying reason why you want to win. But the GOP could end up like the Libertarian party, winning 0.8 percent of the vote if we come up with too many ways of disqualifying people.
The Obama Bread Lines
Santorum by voting for the HUGE government program is NOT
JadedByPolitics Monday, November 17th at 9:54PM EST (link)the way to go…..we have GOT to get the Federal Government out of people’s lives with these huge programs…..we NEED to get abortion back to the states for decision where the local politician has to look his constituents in the face and have got to continue to be on offense in military matters. Boehner MUST not head up the minority in Congress because of his crying disgusting signing of the 700 billion dollar crap sandwich. WE have got to stop rewarding this LARGE government behavior…..now Santorum is GREAT on who our enemy is BUT he lost his mind on the “compassionate” portion of spending. Those who call themselves Conservatives MUST stay with the core value of conservatism….it’s not a PICK OR CHOOSE option.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
Let me say Erick that I am not all gaga over Steele but....
JadedByPolitics Monday, November 17th at 10:02PM EST (link)I have to say either he is a liar or he is saying my words to me…..the BIGGEST 2 and I keep saying it are THE GRASSROOTS are going to take back the party away from the Rockefeller Republicans and that “this is not your mother and fathers Republican Party”
an interesting article in the NY Times on NRO pretty much expresses the issue at hand…
NRO is OLD Republicanism their perceived intellect is going to end their run….we are the party of the middle class, the blue collar worker and we always have been
No more of letting Democrats act as if they give a crap about the poor, middle class, upper middle class and yes even the rich. We all know that less taxes on companies and the rich do indeed trickle down and everyone benefits by jobs! We must get that message back that the government is NOT the answer to a good life that self sufficiency and love of country and God and yeah those guns that keep the government at bay is indeed the Republican Party.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
You are reading me wrong, AceInTX
ZootSuit Monday, November 17th at 10:03PM EST (link)Indeed, please note that I did explicitly say that the Republican Party should remain a pro-life party. How can you get the impression that I think social conservatives should give up their “pet” issues, especially while others should stand firm?
Seriously.
But what I am saying is pro-life liberals are destroying the Republican Party and the conservative movement. For some odd reason, once a politician or candidate declares they are pro-life, we conservatives give them a break and count them as one of us no matter how liberal the rest of their political philosophy is. In my opinion, that must stop!
Moreover, I also argue that if the Republican Party becomes just the pro-life party — indeed, if it becomes just the any single issue party, whatever that single issue may be — it will be a minority party and eventually lose political relevance. Yes, the Republican Party needs to be a pro-life party but it needs to be more than just that.
***** Unrepentant African-American nationalist, Unapologetic African-American conservative!
Not true
JakePrime Monday, November 17th at 10:04PM EST (link)Calling Huckabee a pro-life liberal is pure exaggeration. He is fiscally moderate, mildly strong on defense (based on what he’s said), and socially conservative.
Lots of words but not much substance...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 10:12PM EST (link)First off, your take on Reagan is off…He garnered the same hostility and knee jerk reactions as Palin…I’m also reading that you think she’s overly socially conservative…if this is the case…I would encourage you to look at her record in Alaska…Her record in Alaska is far more focused on the fiscal end of things than the SoCon issues.
OK…nice theory but reality is quite another thing…Coulter didn’t remove Shays from office and if you think those that voted him out are the types that follow Coulter on a daily basis you’re simply have no grasp on reality…the voters voted him out despite his moderate/Liberal positions so I don’t know what you’re driving at.
The issue isn’t that we have Moderates or even Liberals in the Party it’s that they control the party and hold the majority of the party in contempt…The Dems have Conservatives in the party…but they have zero influence on policy and they either tow the party line or they’re out on there ears!
Talk about turning history on it’s ear!
What purification has happened in the last eight years? I keep hearing how Conservatives demand such purity that they’re driving away Moderates and Independents…Well…the last I checked…we ran a Moderate/Liberal Republican and we were preached to from March until November that he was the only hope we had as a Party because he’d bring back Reagan Deomcrats, Moderates and Independents…well…how’d that work for us?…
I’ll tell you how…Moderates that voted Republican in 2004 broke for Obama…and enough Conservatives stayed home because they were sick of being lectured to put Barry over 52%!
Congratulations on your resounding victory in 2008…oh wait…didn’t happen did it…yet you’re still fiddling the same tune?
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You disagree with Fred Thompson
Spiral Monday, November 17th at 10:15PM EST (link)Fred Thompson is the one who called Huckabee a pro-life liberal. And Huckabee himself called the Club for Growth the “Club for Greed.”
When we hear Republicans casually toss around words like “greed” during discussions about economics, we know that the GOP has lost its way.
The Obama Bread Lines
The other thing about Romney is
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 10:20PM EST (link)his stiffness and lack of a personality is only exceeded in politics by one person…Al Gore!
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Ummm...we had one...
whatifidontwanna Monday, November 17th at 10:30PM EST (link)And less than 24 hours ago, people were castigating him for being a RINO.
I’m of the mindset that there are some here who cannot abide anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
I for one believe that you can be principled and be identified as a “moderate.” I believe this because all my friends who are raging liberals think I’m a rightwing nutjob (thanks JibJab) and the few serious conservatives I know think I’m a liberal weiner.
I can’t be both; yet I am. I’m sure there were Republicans who didn’t believe Reagan was conservative enough.
If it’s Steele, great. If it’s Thompson, goody. If it’s Newt, sweet. If it’s someone else, awesome. If it’s me, we’re all hosed (trying to lighten things up).
But seriously, let’s remember that there is a resurgence of right-of-center leaders all over the world yet we go the opposite way, and we seem to always do so. Let’s understand that being an effective minority has more to do with how we demonstrate the poor leadership of the Majority more than our view on any one subject.
Reagan won because of how HORRIBLE Carter looked in comparison. And he proved everyone right. That’s the winning combination for 2012.
I realize you are pro life but I hardly think that's all the party is...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 10:31PM EST (link)The same can be said of National Security Conservatives…We were continually told McCain was Conservative because of his national security views…The same rules have been applied to FisCons as well like Giuliani…I just think you’re too narrow in your criticism because there is plenty to go around.
As I’ve posted replies in many threads the last week or so I’m starting to coalesce my thinking around this fact…Moderates aren’t the problem…or even liberal Republicans in our ranks…it’s the top down nature of the makeup that is the problem…it’s Moderates and Liberals at the very top putting a cork on the Conservative majority in the movement and suppressing or out right killing the Conservative proclivities of the Party.
This is why Steele as RNC chair is a problem for me…it’s not that I dislike him…or that I am opposed to him on a lot of issues…it’s the signal that we can expect more of the same in the Republican Party for the next 2 to 4 years
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No ace they only get called out by the "moderates"...
JadedByPolitics Monday, November 17th at 10:37PM EST (link)and the Rockefeller Republicans the rest of us know your leg of the stool is as big as the other two…..don’t waste your breathe (fingers) on those who say so-cons are the problem just start saying DEMLITE and nt.
Whoever has his enemy at his mercy &
does not destroy him is his own enemy
What a joke...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 10:38PM EST (link)I would point out that Huckabee has a much more Conservative position on the Bailout travesty than the so called FisCons who voted in favor of it…
I agree that it’s dangerous to label someone a Conservative based on one issue i.e. abortion….but SoCons aren’t the only ones that have made that mistake…McCain was called a Conservative based solely on his foreign policy issues.
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Most of what you say here is reasonable except...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 10:48PM EST (link)Saying Specter isn’t bad is being to generous…the man has a 40% ACU rating…
The other issue is that he holds socially liberal positions where judges abortion and other issues are concerned and he chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee…or did before 2006…now he’s the ranking minority member…please tell me what the hell kind of sense that makes??? We do we as a party put people in charge of committees and cabinet posts that hold views that are antithetical to the party?
The absurdity of it makes my blood boil as I type this!
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Correction
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 10:52PM EST (link)House Conservatives Fund
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I would say no
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 11:04PM EST (link)I would say no…not because he was wrong on one vote…because he hues Fiscon principles most of the time…but because he lost his re-election.I’m of a mind that if you can’t win reelection when you are a leader in your caucus and have a tremendous advantage over your opponent…then you’re not qualified to help with the campaigns for the entire party.
I know…it’s not fair to penalize him for losing one election…but my point is…if he can’t inspire constituents who voted for him in the past…then he can’t inspire voters to vote for the party.
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Absolutely...See McCain and Dole
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 11:05PM EST (link)nt
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Your the only one saying that Spiral...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 11:10PM EST (link)I don’t think I’ve heard a single soul here say that all one has to be to be a conservative is pro life…except you and a few like you!
Pick your ears instead of your nose so you can listen better!
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But it's fun to slap the iratianality out of them once in a while...
AceInTX Monday, November 17th at 11:13PM EST (link):>)
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Steele is good, but
Andy Smith Monday, November 17th at 11:24PM EST (link)I think Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove would be better. The problem is that Rove is associated with Bush, and that gives the DNC all the ammo they need. People know Newt Gingrich, but how can he court younger and minority voters?
I’ve seen a few responses for splitting the chair post (as long as Mike Duncan isn’t involved) and I have to agree. Let Steele reach out to the minorities and younger voters (as long as he can prove he has the ability to convey how our solutions can help them) and let a Rove or Ginigrich oversee the borad picture.
“Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.”-Abraham Lincoln
It's the Republican Party, Ace,
Achance Tuesday, November 18th at 2:05AM EST (link)not the Conservative Party. That seems to cause confusion here.
In Vino Veritas
It may not be the Conservative Party but it is the party of Conservatives...
AceInTX Tuesday, November 18th at 2:25AM EST (link)Again…I’m not against having moderates and liberals in the Republican Party…My problem is that they are in the minority yet they control it from the top down…and in the few cases when Conservatives have gotten the upper hand and won elections such as 1980 and 1994 as well as 2004 running on Conservative principles and issues…they set about creating groups like the Republican Main Street Partnership to undercut and undermine the very policies that have made the Party successful.
It’s the lack of Party discipline as well. You don’t see the Democrats moving to the middle to win…they moved left and swamped us while our moderate leadership was busy wetting their fingers and sticking them up to see which way the wind is blowing! Democrats punish their conservative membership for going off the reservation and they vote in lock step as a block…We promote our mavericks and make them our nominee because it’s their turn…
I know where you come from and I know I’m an idealist to a great extent because I believe this can be fixed…but we can’t go on letting a minority run this party and continue losing elections or we might as well pack it up and let the french pick our leadership because we’ll be a dim shadow if the socialist French government!
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You don't know where I come from.
Achance Tuesday, November 18th at 2:40AM EST (link)That said, I am a pragmatist; I’ll take anybody’s vote to form a governing coalition. In order to govern well, you must first govern.
In Vino Veritas
I thought you came from the land of super hot, moose hunting women?
Dave_in_Fla Tuesday, November 18th at 2:51AM EST (link)I’m going to be so disappointed if it isn’t true.
“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” - Joe McCarthy
Naw, Achance is a Gawga boy by birth.
c17wife Tuesday, November 18th at 2:56AM EST (link)Alaskan by transplant. He, smart man that he is, followed a path for financial independence to Alaska instead of waiting around for the gubmint to give him something elsewhere.
Duty is ours, outcomes belong to God.~Mike Pence
Since the primaries, Huckabee has been shoring up his fiscal conservataive credentials
JSobieski Tuesday, November 18th at 3:10AM EST (link)I agree that its not in his core, but he has at least learned from past experience and is being more conservative as a result
Spiral...point taken...I should have been more general...
Attack Mode Tuesday, November 18th at 9:03AM EST (link)I only thought that you were a moderate because you were defending the moderates and you seemed ok with a moderate being in charge of the party.
As far as what influence either of us hold, again you are right we don’t have a direct influence, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have any influence. If we don’t have any influence than what is the point of even posting on this site?
Anyhow don’t take what I said as personal.
“Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper” Peter Griffin…Family Guy
conform and celebrate diversity….or else!!!
Steel-Belted Radial Right Winger

“I’ll create 5 million jobs from out of unicorn farts and pixie dust” Justatron paraphrasing Obamessiah…yes I love it that much.
More the land of super hot, fish killing women.
Achance Tuesday, November 18th at 10:11AM EST (link)I live in Juneau in Southeast Alaska; the moose are up north. If you want the babes here, you have a boat rather than a snow machine and not so many people have airplanes because there are so many clouds with rocks in them.
NR does Alaska cruises as well; you should try one. A few years back they had a good layover in Juneau and we had a reception for the cruisers here and I got to meet a lot of the brand name commentators of the day including WFB and Milton Friedman. Governor Knowles, a Democrat but also a Yalie, crashed our party to meet WFB much to our consternation. There wasn’t a lot of love in the room when Knowles showed up but WFB was most gracious towards him.
In Vino Veritas
Actually, C17,
Achance Tuesday, November 18th at 10:30AM EST (link)I was doing real well in ATL; I just didn’t like it. Can’t do that city stuff for long. In terms of culture and amenities, Pipeline Era Anchorage was pretty grim in comparison to ATL, but you didn’t have to keep a pistol tucked in your belt to safely walk around town. In early 70s ATL, I’d have rather made the two block walk from my business to the bank without my pants than without my pistol. I’d have had some chance of making it alive with no pants but none with no pistol.
My last place there was 13 miles from my business. On good days I could make that commute in an hour at rush hour. You always kept a spare shirt on a hangar in the car because the traffic moved so slowly that the car’s air conditioning never really worked.
Unless I’m coming down from DC or NY, in which case I fly into Savannah, I have to fly into ATL to see my family down in Southeast Georgia. I get my rental car, and pay the exhorbitant rental car tax, and head for I-75 South as fast as I dare. I did spend a couple of nights and go to a ballgame in ATL a few years back because my wife was with me and she’d never been there before. Now that she’s been there, I haven’t lost anything in Atlanta so I have no reason to be there!
In Vino Veritas
what a sight that must have been!
E Pluribus Unum Tuesday, November 18th at 10:46AM EST (link)And there’s no doubt Buckley would be generous at a time like that. But I bet the tension in the room was thick enough to cut off slices and put on a sandwich.
Carthago delenda est
Do your conservative t-shirt Christmas shopping at EPU Gear. Save the conservative muse, save the world.
Doing an Alaska cruise is high up on my list
Dave_in_Fla Tuesday, November 18th at 11:39AM EST (link)Someday I will get up there.
“If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country.” - Joe McCarthy
Should be some good deals on cruises
Achance Tuesday, November 18th at 11:50AM EST (link)this year. Haven’t heard if NR is coming here this year or not. Everyone always comes in June, July, and August, but I don’t recommend it unless you have kids in school.
The weather is much more likely to be more or less clear in May, though it can still be a little chilly - well a lot chilly if you’re from Florida. From mid-June through mid-August it is very crowded and by mid-to late August it gets very rainy and some years, like this one, you don’t see the sun at all from late August through November.
In Vino Veritas
You're right Achance...I don't know where you come from over all...
AceInTX Wednesday, November 19th at 2:02PM EST (link)I meant I know your background and your experience and I value it greatly so please don’t misread me.
and I’m with you as well about wanting and accepting every vote I can get for our Party and ideas…again, my issue is with the idea that a minority in this party is bottling up and corking the majority and sabotaging us every time we make a little progress…
If your a Liberal Republican by all means…stay with the Party and vote with us…If we agree on 60% of the issues than that’s good enough for me…but don’t demand that I go along with the 40% liberal positions you have and don’t force it on the majority of the party because you have networked with other Liberals who have the leadership positions in this party locked up in a death grip!
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More libertarian than liberal,
Achance Wednesday, November 19th at 2:29PM EST (link)or liberal as that word had traditional meaning. I guess I’m more of the “leave me alone” or “off my back and out of my wallet” kind of Republican. When it comes to how government works and what it can be made to do, I’m probably pretty liberal compared to many here though.
‘Course the lefties here would tell you that I’m two or three SDs to the right of Ghengis Khan. In fact, I had the pleasure of having one refer to me as “that right wing snake” in the Juneau Empire’s blog the other day.
In Vino Veritas
"Big Tent" Republicrat"
olsmithie Wednesday, November 19th at 2:52PM EST (link)Very fine observation on what doesn’t work!
Doubters should ask John McCain.
Regards
We've batted the ball back and forth enogh for me to know we're not that far off from one another
AceInTX Wednesday, November 19th at 4:00PM EST (link)I know you have a distrust of SoCons because you think we’re all about using government to accomplish our ends and to some extent you’re right…
but the thing that keeps getting missed when it comes to SoCons is that most of us would be part of the leave us alone coalition as well when we’re not under assault…the issue is…as I’ve stated elsewhere that as the founders stated a libertarian society is totally unmanageable in the absence of morality and a community standard by which individuals will adhere and us to govern their own passions.
I know the left sees this and I believe that is why their greatest assaults are on the moral pillars of this society because as they erode and destroy those pillars the rest of the libertarian system begins to fall in upon it’self requiring government to come in and fix it thereby growing government and setting up the next assault on our moral underpinnings…
Libertarians need Social Conservatives like any mammal needs air to breath…ditto Social Conservatives…we can’t survive without each other. Some SoCons have forgotten the libertarian ethos because they got drunk with power after 2000 but I think their numbers and influence has been way over blown recently
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