Chew on that a while before you spout off.

Regards

And hey, anyone that annoys the Left as much as Rick is doing has to be doing something right!

Oh…and there’s no need for a ‘more’ before ‘angrier’. That it is more than before is implied by the “-er”.

And I’m just messing around. I like you guys (most, anyway). I exaggerated for effect. I knew it would draw some fun responses.

But I do agree with the original poster here. Warren is a glorified book salesman.

Just because some guy cloaks his personal philosophy in the “word of God” doesn’t mean I have to take him seriously. And certainly not as seriously as he takes himself. He’s still just some guy.

I’ll make my own interpretations of one of the great wisdom traditions of this world. I don’t need some dude to break it down and tell me how he sees it.

And on another note: Please don’t lump me in with the dkos crowd. That’s insulting.

Wonderful show, bravo I am looking for an encore and extended showings!

Warren might be the only person I can think of with a bigger ego than “The One”. He writes a popular self-help book and now he’s handing out international peace awards and appearing before the nation on inauguration day? You’re correct in the post…he’s got ZERO humility. And without that, preaching always takes an intolerable air of sanctimony and condescension. I can’t listen to a word that guy says.

Besides, while I am occasionally nasty to people on RedState, never the regular crew. Except absentee, who speaks ungraciously about my mother.

Anyway, it sounds like the root behavior from Graham that sets off your beef with him is (a) the Graham ‘machine’ if you will, not doing any followup on salvation (or presumed salvation) experience, but instead (b) ’sends converts back to their old churches’, (c) some of which are not Biblically sound churches.

Would that be a fair summation? I am going to operate on that premise. First, I tend to agree that this ‘go preach to a bunch of people, get presumed salvation experiences, out of them, then move on to the next arena or stadium’, is not something I am fond of, nor do I view it as an especially sound approach to the Great Commission - which as we both know, commands us to ‘make disciples’ and ‘teach obedience to the Lord’s commands’. So the Graham approach does not please me. I agree with you in that the great revivals involved camping out, so to speak, on scripture, calling for and getting life changes, and prayer, lots of sustained prayer.

Instructing them to ‘go back to their old church’, I am sure is an attempt to give the new convert a place to plug in for that discipleship, recognizing that the Graham approach cannot satisfy on its own. The fact that the Graham ‘machine’ is indiscriminating as to the theological underpinnings of various denominations is a bit careless, but to conclude that Graham is ‘compromising parts of the Bible’ I think is an excessive charge. You said that about Graham himself, not just his organization.

I view the Graham style of evangelism as inadequate, somewhat ill-considered. You take the fact that they are willing to send new converts ‘to church, any church’ as some egregious violation of scripture. I do not. Certainly not what I would do, because in their shoes I would be careful to instruct them as to the difference between plastic churches and real churches.

So anyway, my 2 cents, Cheetah.

Graham does present a clear picture of the Gospel of Christ, and he should be commended for his effort to lead multitudes of souls to Christ. However, after leading souls to Christ, he usually sends converts back to their old churches. For instance, I know a few personal stories of Catholic converts being sent back to Roman Catholic Church, after attending a Billy Graham event. This contradicts the biblical doctrine of separation from the world and old life. This is not about being against Roman Catholicism, but rather that if people were dissatisfied with their old churches and understood the Gospel of Christ, then they should have quit and joined New Testament, Bible-believing, godly churches.

Furthermore, Graham is breaking down biblical walls between those godly and apostate churches, when according to Romans 16:17, we are to mark those who cause divisions and teaching doctrines contrary to the Word of God. Thus, even though Graham led multitudes of souls to Christ, what he is doing is wrong in the sight of God. This is compromising the letter and spirit of His Word.

On a final note, it is my personal observation that after many souls are supposedly saved in Christ after a Billy Graham event, there should be some sort of evidence that demonstrates great spiritual growth. There is a historical precedent for this: The Great Awakenings, DL Moody’s revivals, Billy Sunday’s preaching, George Finney, and others. After a great revival that took place, people changed their lives and threw out old lifestyle habits like drinking alcoholic beverages or pornographic magazines, etc. Bars were closed down, even theaters were closed as well. There was a general acknowledgement of the power of God working everywhere. Yet, none of this occurs after a Graham event. Why is this so? I don’t think God is pleased that Graham is compromising parts of the Bible just so that souls can be saved.

It has always been my view that God would rather that no one compromise the Bible and only a few souls saved in Christ than many souls led to Christ and the Bible compromised spiritually. For God is a holy and righteous God, the spirit of compromise is not in His holy character, therefore all pastors, evaneglists, missionaries, and teachers should follow Christ’s example and the Word of God. I feel Graham failed in this area, and he will be judged for that at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven (in the case you don’t know, the Bible teaches there are TWO judgments: one for the saved and the other is for the lost only — The Great White Throne of Judgement).

If after reading this comment, you find it offensive and disagreeable, then fine, I’d suggest that we leave it at that. Okay?

Thursday, December 18, 2008

by: Roger Duval

An early release of Pastor Rick Warren’s Inauguration Prayer

“Dear God, Whom I used to know and follow, we come before you today to ask you to anoint a person who is no more Christian than is a steaming pile of Chicago garbage. Deep down, we all know that the best thing for America would have been if Barack Obama’s unwed mother had aborted him as an unwanted chunk of uterine tissue. Today, however, we are stuck with him as our new President. We are so blessed that Barack has chosen not to use his life story as a pro-life testimony, rather he has taken the position that even babies who find a way to slip past the clutches of the abortionist don’t have a chance to live longer than about 20 minutes…the job will be finished thanks to how Barack Obama views abortion rights.

“We pray blessings on this liar, oh Lord. We know that evil company corrupts people, and Barack can’t seem to name any friends who do not come from evil. We have marveled during the campaign that he can lie better than the last empty suit we had in the White House, the one and only Bill Clinton. Did I say lie better than Bill Clinton? Perhaps I should adjust the order of these two liars and say Barack, you are close to Bill…close, but no cigar. (Yet)

“When I was writing my book, (Original working title: The Glamour-Driven Pastoral Life), I had in mind that one day I would stand here, on inauguration day, offering up a benediction for a godly president, but hey, when opportunity knocks, we can’t let something as silly as integrity get in the way. I saw an opening to replace Billy Graham as the go-to presidential pastor. True, I was selected today because Barack’s own close pastor can’t be up here praying. Ol’ Rev. Wright might get the wind of the un-holy-ghost and let lose with a sting of expletives damming America, or blaming our government for AIDS.

“And God, speaking of AIDS, thank you for our outgoing President and the tremendous good-hearted actions he has taken in the area of helping those afflicted with this disease in Africa. (Under his breath he whispers…’Had to get that serious line in God, so I can at least have a chance of repenting from this appearance later.’)

“We know, God, that our Founding Fathers and our Founding Documents were inspired by heaven. Please anoint Barack Obama as he appoints a team of people who have no clue what those documents stand for and he does his best to take this great nation in a direction that none of our founders would recognize.

“Also in the audience are people like Oprah Winfrey and a multitude of Hollywood people. Bless them as they consider me for an appearance on the show and help them to choose wisely in selecting who will play me in the movie.

“In Jesus’s name–who is also mentioned in my book, which is for sale at the concession tables–we pray.”

Guess Jeremiah Wright isn’t available that day or Obama just doesn’t need to keep up pretenses of connecting with the black community anymore.

I, for one, am happy that we wil see on the national stage a Prayer to our Lord and Savior! Not a false God, not an idol, but an honest to goodness Christian Prayer requesting strength for our leaders, requesting a blessing on our nation, and moral backbone (I hope) to our members of Congress. Would I like to see Billy Graham? Yes. Would I like to see John Calvin, John the Baptist, or my local Pastor? Yes…but alas it is not to be

One reason I am comfortable with this selection is that the left is so much against it. I actually smile a little with that thought in mind. Would any of us stand at the feet of all we despise, hold in our hands the opportunity to Pray in front of all the country, and forfeit it? I hope not, because we need it too much…God Bless this Prayer!!!

(This is simply a fact and in no way reflective of anyone’s feelings about Rick Warren himself, pro or con.)

So maybe, rather than this being some grand plot, Obama is simply recognizing that fact, saying “thank you”, and maybe, even, thinks this is appealing to Warren’s demographic, which isn’t really included in any other way.

And let’s be clear: there isn’t any place at Obama’s table for the so-called “Christian Right” other than this.

Regarding Warren, well, it’s a mistake that the Left makes over and over: trying to stereotype the “Christian Right”. They tried to give us Protestant popes in Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson, among others — Rick Warren is just the latest in that line.

But trying to get the Christian Rght to send up the white smoke is like herding cats. Ain’t happening.

(And BTW, Rick Warren isn’t the Dr Phil of Christian circles; Joel Osteen is. Now I like Joel a lot; I enjoy his books and even have attended Lakewood Church upon occasion; but I don’t look to him for Bible teaching.)

I’m glad Obama asked Rick Warren to do this (for any number of reasons), and I’m reminded that God works in mysterious ways

Would like to hear your thoughts.