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EDITOR OF REDSTATE

Al Gore & John Kerry Voter Upset With Ann Coulter

In other news, night is dark and day is light.

Ah celebrity. It’s a wonderful thing. When your dad is a celebrity, it can get you really cool gigs to prove you are hipper than the hip-replaced crowd. And you can write mildly amusing articles at the Daily Beast complaining about Ann Coulter.

Let’s just pick apart one measly paragraph of this pablum by Megan McCain complaining about Ann Coulter to get to how ridiculous it is.

I hope viewers understand Ann Coulter is not the woman we Republicans need representing us right now.

Ann is a conservative first. And in her debates with Bill Maher, it’ll be between ideas on the left and ideas on the right — not Democrat v. Republican. I am surprised you would conflate the two. See, it was Republicans who supported your dad and conservatives who he kicked in the nuts all the time.

The GOP is at a crossroads.

That it is. But do we really want to take advice on which path to choose from someone who could not bring herself to vote for the party’s nominee in 2004 during a time of war? Likewise, here we go again with you conflating the GOP and conservatives. At least you recognize that we conservatives tend to run the place. When we don’t, the GOP tends to lose elections. See e.g. the 2008 Presidential Election.

I love the Republican Party, but if it turns out I am somehow not conservative enough to please its leaders

Now when did Ann Coulter become a leader of the party? Or is Ann just a proxy for the icky conservatives that did not like your dad because he constantly sold out the party’s principles for self-aggrandizement — kind of like what you are doing now? And, by the way, throughout the article, you don’t really mention it, but isn’t your grudge more personal than Ann as somehow the face of the GOP? She didn’t much like your dad, after all.

it makes me wonder—am I then not worthy of even being a member?

You are perfectly worthy of being a member of the GOP if you believe in freedom and liberty. But that’s not what you are really after is it? You want to be a voice guiding the party and, given that people like Coulter and Rush are much more articulate than you, though they don’t throw around the word “hip” as much, the competition is stiff. So you’d rather bash them than articulate a vision of where things should go.

One last one from earlier in the article. Megan writes

If you truly have the GOP’s best interests at heart, how can you possibly justify telling an audience of millions that a Democrat would be a better leader than the Republican presidential candidate?

Um, pot meet kettle. You voted for John Kerry and, it would seem, Al Gore.

COMMENTS

  • JadedByPolitics

    is deciding who is a Conservative of course having McCain for a dad doesn’t give one a good example of one……I will take Ann Coulter over the SS McCains anyday

  • spainishirish

    She?s a socialite. I?m sure Coulter howled after someone explained who Megan is.

    And I wish someone could explain to me how this post got duped on another blog!

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com LJ “Beaglescout” Miller

    You ask how a conservative could support Hillary Clinton over John McCain for president. The answer is simple: who do you want to have your six? Hillary Clinton is power seeking creature who is utterly predictable, and though she loves to stab conservatives she does it from the front. John McCain is driven by whim in order to right whatever “wrong” he just saw now, until five minutes pass and the next “wrong” appears, and he likes nothing more than to stab conservatives in the back.

  • RedInABleuState

    Court the rubes before Election Day. Bash and condescend after.

    It was with great pride that I ripped that blasted bumper sticker off of my car on November 5.

    Thanks for the post. I don’t understand why this “celebrity” keeps getting the bytes.

  • AHALgal

    She’s utterly irrelevant, except that her anti-Coulterism will be used by an anti-conservative media as further red meat.

    If only the moderate RINO Republicans fought the Democrats as hard as they fought the conservative Republicans, we’d be the majority and in the White House. OOPS! I forgot. RINOs are Democrat weasel insurgents in the Republican party.

    Meghan is making a fool of herself. Where’s her mother?

  • jimmuy8

    who said “I think Obama would make a fine President?”

    So, uh “If you truly have the GOP?s best interests at heart, how can you possibly justify telling an audience of millions that a Democrat would be a better leader than the Republican presidential candidate?”

    Is she saying her dad didn’t have the GOP’s best interest at heart? ‘Cause saying Obama would be a fine President is the same as saying he is as good as or better than the Republican. Descriptions of your opponent must always be worse than you; equal to is the same as better. Do you recall Obama ever saying McCain would make a fine President?

    Is she a double-agent then, pretending to tell “us” what our best interests are?

  • EmilyM

    that so many people my age (I think she’s around my age) aren’t strong enough to stand upon principles but rather let their peers and society sway them. I feel like my generation–and the ones to come–are just becoming more and more ignorant and what’s worse, they don’t even WANT to learn the truth. They make up their minds and don’t allow themselves to be educated and to see both sides of an issue before they make up their minds. For example, stem cell research: so many of my peers automatically think it’s a fabulous idea but if I were to ask them what embryonic stem cell research has done in terms of finding cures, they wouldn’t be able to tell me because ESCs haven’t aided at all in finding any cure for any disease! If/when I have children, I swear they will not be part of the dumb masses.

  • Achance

    Because as soon as either enters their life, they’re not really your children anymore.

  • liandro

    You point out her voting record, but as she herself said in that piece, she has only just joined the party, and is still clearly feeling out it, herself, and politics in general.

    You also never bother to address her main concern–Coulter’s “demeanor”, as Meghan puts it–and you don’t seem to engage any of Meghen’s points with anything more then mockery or scorn.

    There might be plenty of targets out there worthy of this kind of approach, but leading a charge (that was followed in the comments) against Meghen McCain?

    I would find it far more constructive to take apart her post(s), dissect them as an example of the kind of young voters we have a shot at getting, and explain how you think we could get them further in the fold. As I said above, she’s clearly still in the development stage of her political thoughts–and no truly dynamic person ever leaves that stage, I think.

    I will grant you that she is putting herself out there as a quasi-political writer…but then at least give her the benefit of a good-faith argument against her. Reserve the scorn for more worthy and deserving targets.

  • mom2oneson
  • smitch61

    Nothing more to say……

  • live4freedom

    Megan should look deep into her political heart and realize that maybe, just maybe, she isn’t worthy of being a Republican and that she is, in fact, a Democrat. Maybe her dad is, too.

    The Democrats want nothing more than the Republicans to fight amongst themselves and Megan is more than willing to help out. We don’t need McCains in the party.

    www.americandictatorobama.com

  • bc3

    A year ago no one knew Meghan McCain. By 2012 no one will remember her.

    There was only one good thing about her father’s campaign – Sarah Palin.

  • modgopgal

    Though I’ve been an avid reader of Redstate for over a year now, I’ve never registered or posted until now. I’ve hesitated because, although I am a Republican, I’m a moderate. (Some of you might even call me a “squish”). Like Ms. McCain, I’m also young, just 23, and am still getting a sense of where I stand on many political issues. But as a young college-educated woman, I can say that I, along with many of my female Republican friends, don’t know if we are welcome in the GOP.

    For instance, we don’t care much for Ms. Coulter or Mr. Limbaugh. I’ve not voiced an opinion on Redstate about them because it seems those who criticize them get attacked. But I wanted to post this because, as a young person, I am worried about the future of the Republican party. I don’t see young people flocking to the GOP. Nor do I see many women under 30 supporting the Republican party. My university once had a thriving young Republicans club. Now it is virtually dead.

    I’m not saying Mr. Limbaugh or Ms. Coulter are totally to blame for what I perceive to be a shunning of the Republican party by younger voters. But their style, and at times, even the content of their rhetoric do offend those of us who might otherwise be more supportive of the Republican party. Some of us, like Liandro who posted comments on this thread, ask legitimate questions about conservative spokespeople like Ms. Coulter. Does she help or hurt the GOP? I would argue that her use of words like “camel jockey” to describe Muslims or her calling widows of 911 “harpies” or saying that Jews need to be “perfected” do much harm to conservatives because they alienate more people than they persuade. Ms. Coulter certainly raises legitimate points. But her delivery is so abrasive that she pushes people like me and many other young Republican voters away. Sure, her words may cheer those at Redstate because she give voice to your anger. I get that. But you are already converted and she is preaching to the choir. The GOP can’t win with a shrinking but loud chorus. It must attract more voters, especially young voters, to prosper.

    I’m actually thinking about leaving the GOP because I don’t feel the party tolerates people like me who endorse many of the principles of the Republican party but are more moderate on some social issues (like gay marriage, abortion, environment, stem cell research, social programs). Nor do I feel comfortable with the tone of many conservative Republicans. Many of the posts at Redstate come across to me (someone who is open to Republican ideas) as mean-spirited. For instance, instead of engaging in a substantive discussion about Ms. McCain’s article, posters here hurl pejoratives at her like “fool” and “poor little rich girl.” You can disagree with Ms. McCain without being disagreeable. And you can certainly take issue with her opinions. But instead of name calling why not detail — in an erudite and elegant way that would make Mr. William F. Buckley proud — why you disagree with her? Calling her a “poor little rich girl” explains nothing.

    If Mr. Limbaugh, Ms. Coulter, and some Redstate posters offend me, again someone who is OPEN to the GOP, then how does the party intend to attract moderates and independents? Redstaters may love these shock jocks but you are a minority of voters. There are many in the middle who you could win over. But we are fleeing the party because we are more moderate and are offended by the abrasiveness of the most vocal of conservatives. We are called “squishes”, “RINOs,” and “unprincipled.” If we question Mr. Limbaugh or Ms. Coulter, or raise doubts about Governor Palin, we are blasted. But if Redstaters and other Republicans keep pushing people like me and other moderates who generally support the GOP away, how do you intend to win over enough voters to win the next election?

    So go ahead, bash me. Hurl insults. Call me names. I’m just a young woman who would like to remain in the Republican party. I just don’t feel very welcome.

  • Achance

    I’m not going to bash you, I’m going to criticize you. You don’t express one single idea of your own. You don’t really express any substantive objection to the thoughts of Mr. Limbaugh or Ms. Coulter. You just come here with a college liberal whine about how you don’t like them. You’re not a Republican, you’re not a conservative. I don’t know if you’re a squish because I have no evidence about whether your beleives, should you actually have any, have ever been tested.

    So, if it is and insult, and if it is name calling; you’re a troll. If you ever did register as a Republican, you didn’t know what you were doing. And, no, somebody as ignorant as you obviously are really isn’t welcome.

  • Caleb

    Your objections all seem predicated on a failure of research. We didn’t attack McCain in a vacuum. There is history. There is context. You’ve obviously missed all that.

    But look at your own argument. You’re calling for a diversity of opinion in the party, while arguing against the conservative opinion of the party base. Do you really want diversity? or just to have people agree with you? I don’t see Coulter demanding YOUR allegiance. Why do you demand hers?

  • modgopgal

    Achance, as for my beliefs, they are, like many voters, a mix of conservative and moderate ideas. For instance, I have opposed all the bailouts. I support school vouchers. I dislike earmarks. And I oppose affirmative action. But I am also pro-choice, am fine with gay marriage, opposed the war in Iraq, and believe health care is a right.

    My point was — I am still open to the Republican party. But name calling by leaders of the party, including Ms. Coulter, don’t attract voters. It generally pushes people like me away.

    It saddens me, a new voter and someone who is just getting involved in politics, to be told “somebody as ignorant as you obviously are really isn’t welcome.” Obviously, since I’m only 23, I’m learning. But instead of encouraging a young person who wants to be more involved, who is thirsty for knowledge, and who had the courage to honestly express her thoughts, Achance calls me names. And proves my point that Redstate and the Republican party doesn’t empower, encourage, or embrace. Achance, and many like him, are showing potential allies and future GOP voters the door simply because we are not “pure” or because we dare to question Mr. Limbaugh and Ms. Coulter’s tactics.

  • http://beaglescout.wordpress.com LJ “Beaglescout” Miller

    So what Republican positions do you actually support?

    That’s where it begins. Work out your own principles. I’d suggest that Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are good ones to start with. If you are absolutely ruthless with your received ideas from 16+ years of liberal indoctrination you may find your way as a conscious adult to the Republican party. If you stay half-way asleep you can be like all the other Democrats.

  • modgopgal

    I’m saying if the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to grow stronger so it can implement its policies then it has to attract more voters. But many, like me, are turned off by Ms. Coulter’s style. How does calling Muslims “camel jockeys” or telling Jews they need to be “perfected” attract more voters?

    If Ms. Coulter offends me, someone who is a registered Republican, then how does the party expect to reach moderates and Reagan Democrats. Look, I’m young, new to politics, and interested in learning more. But name calling, as Achance has done, doesn’t empower someone like me or make me feel welcome to the GOP. Fine, shut the door on people like me. But where does that get you?

  • modgopgal

    in my response to Achance. I wrote:

    “For instance, I have opposed all the bailouts. I support school vouchers. I dislike earmarks. And I oppose affirmative action. But I am also pro-choice, am fine with gay marriage, opposed the war in Iraq, and believe health care is a right.”

    So, no, I am not against “every Republican position.” I support some GOP positions and oppose others. I, like Nancy Reagan, support stem cell research. But like Mr. Limbaugh oppose the stimulus package. I, like Bristol Palin, believe abstinence only education is ineffective. But like many at Redstate oppose publicly funding abortions (I am pro-choice but don’t believe tax payer money should be used to fund abortions).

    BTW, I didn’t receive 16+ years of liberal indoctrination. I went to a private Catholic high school.

  • Caleb

    In the first case, poor Ann has been savaged by Redstate on the front page many times.

    Another presumption: attracting voters means appearing more like democrats. If that were true the last 100 years of electoral results were essentially anomalies.

    Another presumption: you believe arguments as to empowerment matter a whit. That is moby all over. Conservatives don’t give a fig for empowerment. Empowerment is a silly and fatuous lib construct. It’s got no place in reasoned intellectual debate.

    lastly, you presume, and this is your greatest error, that opposing you is rejecting you.

    It isn’t. We debate here. We do it respectfully. No cursing. Not personal. We debate. We engage you because that’s what we do. In point of fact, it means we’ve welcomed you. Don’t over-read debate. You are welcome here as long as you similarly avoid profantiy and address the debate. So, welcome!

    - c

  • modgopgal

    I would disagree with what you wrote that “we do it respectfully” in terms of debate here. I posted my very first post and was immediately called “ignorant” and told I wasn’t welcome. That’s not exactly respectful.

    Maybe the word “empower” is a female thing. My female friends and I use it all the time. We mean it to be “encourage” and “inspire.” Though I was not alive when Ronald Reagan was President, I’m sure he inspired. That is what I meant by “empower.”

    And since I’m new here I don’t know all the terminology. What is a moby? Never heard that word before. For people my age, Moby is a singer.

  • Caleb

    You won’t last. Achance is one of our most excellent commenters. Observe and repeat.

    A moby, incidentally, is a dem who comes here pretending to be a repub just to stir up trouble. Sound silly? It is. But it’s not our fault. It happens constantly.

    I don’t think you are. You might be, your most recent comment, to which I am replying, could easily be taken thus. But I don’t think you are. Just do me favor. Before you start judging us, read a few diaries. A few front page stories.

    Not just from today either. Pick some usernames, click on their profile, read their stories. Read us, THEN categorize us. We’ve been here for several years. There’s a history. There’s context.

    – c

  • lonebeagle

    Unlike Democrats and liberals, Republicans are expected to be mature adults who take responsibilities for their actions. If you want to be a Republican then be a Republican. If you don’t, go join the ______ party.

    Right now I doubt that you could find your own front door.

    Republicans and conservatives are also expected to think for themselves and anyone who writes a post as long as your and then begs to be punished belongs on the daily kos.

    Have a nice life.

  • Achance

    Who the Hell has any obligation to “empower, ecourage, or embrace” your sorry a@#? What gave you the idea that anyone had any obligation to you? If I was f@#king you, I’d have some obligation to you in my old-fashioned value system, but in the world of 23-year-olds, I wouldn’t.

    Start over, baby. You missed this one altogether. If this was some serious attempt to communicate, you got it all wrong. If you were mobying, you didn’t do it very well.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    Read these in entirety and you’ll have a basis in what’s what…. more or less…

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  • lonebeagle

    But don’t expect that anyone here at Redstate, or the Republican Party, or at your dry cleaners will stop and be interested in coddling you so that you feel needed, important, wanted, relevant, valued or any of the other pathetic things that young people seem to need today.

    In other words, grow up.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    Have you Read any of her books? Listened to any of them on Audio-book? or you just getting the Left biased MSM line of BS…. Ann is like Rush, you get them or you don’t and IMO your Youth is showing in that you couch everything in the very few years of experience you have in anything dismissing years of wisdom (and pain/growth) of your elders…. So you don’t like her tone and/or tactics…. TUNE HER OUT… as it appears we will be doing with you…

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  • Caleb
  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    If she is “real” it would seem that there is some underlying “understanding” that she shouldn’t be a “Liberal” but can’t grasp the constructs as to why? and just hasn’t had enough time to have the real “epiphany” how/why Conservatism (Republican, loosely – all too loosely as we often discuss) is the Right (pun intended ;-) path…. There may be REAL Hope (TM) for her yet…. if she avoids too many hours of CNN/MSNBC….

  • Rod_Patrick

    Pelosi and Biden are Catholic too. Many liberals are Protestants. So religion has nothing to do with it. In the last election, pandering to religious groups went to the highest level ever possible. In fact, I have never heard of any fundamentalist Muslim , self-declared Atheist (even Sanders is 50-50) or even Satanist who won election yet; but there seems to be plenty of them in the Congress. Note that in the last election, Obama posed more as a Christian while McCain is a secular pro-lifer. I believe that mixing up religious affiliation with political position will end up to nothing but madness.

    This is because the current political ideologues of many Americans (especially the young ones) are based on “pandering”, “feeling good” rhetorics, etc. especially on TV and the rest of the MSM. Pandering has some element of intellectual dishonesty.

    I encourage you to UNLEARN your current political positions. Try to be pragmatic (or even border a little to skepticism) as to what the MSM, the politicians, interest groups, Rush, Coulter, CODEPINK, your former professors, the religious leaders, your peers, your family, etc., are all saying. Use your NATURAL INSTINCTS (no need for Ivy League education) and think of what is advantageous and ideal to you. You’ll find that every human being is a natural conservative.

    My point is this:

    Your positions are policy-specific. I find them to be unhinged from concrete life philosophy due to lack of consistency. You need to set the ideals. Without it, you’ll never know where you want to go. Encourage your friends to start searching for life philosophy. Without life philosophy in participating in political discourse, your generation’s time to lead the country will be chaotic.

  • Martin Knight

    … then you’re obviously not a very good fit for the GOP, to be honest.

    Note that I’m not pointing at the door and telling you to navigate your way out of our Big Tent, I’m telling you to really sit down and think through your positions before committing yourself to one party or the other.

    As far as I’m concerned from reading your comments here, you clearly are operating more on “wouldn’t it be nice if …?” than on any reasoned understanding of the issues or even the basic principles – for example, the entire concept of negative rights, which is thoroughly violated by the belief that “healthcare is a right”.

    Let me help you out here; the GOP is for smaller government and less government intrusion in citizens’ lives – even the so-called “moderates” at least pretend to be four-square behind this. However if you support the idea that the government should be in charge of Americans’ healthcare … well, I’ll let RWR himself explain why that’s a fundamentally incompatible idea with being a Republican.

    Consider this me helping you “empower” yourself with a little more knowledge than you had before. That’s another thing Republicans believe in – you have the sole responsibility to empower yourself; only “Women’s Studies” majors go about whining about not being empowered by somebody else.

    Let me end this with a piece of advice; forget everything your college professors or Hollywood celebrities (or the characters they play on screen) have told you about Republicans – i.e. we’re racists (I’m black), sexists, rapists, homophobes, theocrats, all Christians (I’m a Muslim), etc. Some may have even told you that Lincoln was a Democrat and Reagan masterminded AIDS in the black community.

    Instead, start reading more – read Erick, Moe, Pejman, Jeff, Achance, Caleb, Gamecock, bs, etc. Find out for yourself what we think rather than just repeat what your liberal friends think we think. Heck, read Coulter herself (she always cites her sources), listen to Rush without the filters. “Empower” yourself.

    You may find that you’re really a Democrat and good luck to you. But you may discover that you’re a much better fit for the GOP than you thought.

    Welcome to RedState.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    at least she is trying to come to grips with what she knows has been indoctrinated into her and trying to reason her way out of it…. Can you imagine how the DailyKook crowd would eat her up…. Let us Pray that the Wisdom she needs comes and in the mean time be thankful she might pull the Republican lever while she struggles – as we all know is often the other way around!

  • bk

    http://mccainblogette.com/

    http://www.meghanmccain.blogspot.com/

    I don’t know. Being the kid of celebrity of any sort has to be tough. But it seems a little creepy to me to try to use that to make yourself into a mini-celebrity and then whining that people view in that very context.

  • Rod_Patrick

    Meghan, sweetie, don’t mind the above comments and enjoy your life to the fullest.

    Just don’t say anything next time, particularly if you’re not fully ready to back them up. Leave it to Pop. He’s more experienced anyway.

  • 6eorge Jetson

    Is food a right? Is clothing a right? Is shelter a right? And should the govt be choosing what the individual wants to consume?

    By and large, entitlement-minded Americans do not make the distinction between health care service plans for predictable care and health care insurance to pool risk to guard against some level of genuine bad luck or catastrophe.

    When an individual goes to the doctor for some minor ailment, paid mostly for by their health care plan, is that insurance? No, it is predictable, expected service, no different than choosing to eat in that consumer’s cafeteria of choices to keep himself alive and healthy.

    Now, if that individual were to get cancer, should they be bankrupted? IMO, it’s too bad that the lumping of expected service gets in the way of addressing those that are too physically or mentally weak to function on their own.

    Think about that the next time you go for a predictable appointment.

  • GOP84

    It’s about time that people start recognizing the utter lack of credibility that Megan McCain has. Well done, sir.

  • GOP84

    It’s about time someone recognized the utter lack of credibility that Megan McCain has. By the way, will that Coulter-Maher debate be televised or webcast?

  • HMHaanpaa

    modgopgal – have you been told by an educator to go out and change the world and how you are smarter than the generations before you? You are showing people you can’t put things in any order that gives you some solid footing. Find out what you know and what you feel. You don’t have much to contribute when you are all over the map.

  • ColdWarrior

    And, as Ayn Rand said, about your assertion that you “didn’t receive 16+ years of liberal indoctrinatiion [because] I went to a private Catholic high school,” you may want to check your premise.

    Further to the suggestions already made to do some more reading, may I suggest this article:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=73249CE1-6BA9-4D1B-B55F-C0330013B0F4

    And, although I know this may sound real basic, try sitting down some time to re-read (now I need to check my premise) the Declaration of Independence in one sitting. Only a takes a few minutes. Then the Constitution. Then the Northwest Ordinance.

    Way back in 1993 I worked with a brand new Harvard Law School grad fresh off the Clinton campaign. We worked on a few cases together and I was assigned to supervise him. Whenever we had a break, all he wanted to do was talk about politics. He had a solution for everything — more federal government programs were needed. (For example: if only we could force everyone to use low-flow toilets.) I’d keep challenging him to find authority for what he wanted to do in Art I, Section 8. I’d ask him to find the clause upon which he could pin the authority for what he wanted to achieve with whatever pet problem he wanted to solve through the power of the federal government. He was intrigued by the fact that I had a well-worn pocket copy of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in my brief case. And, on my bookcase, well-worn copies of The Federalist Papers. And the Anti-Federalist Papers. Etc. I’d refer to them during our discussions. Well, one Monday morning he came down to my office and, after we exchanged pleasantries, he became very quiet and serious and solemnly announced that he had read, over the weekend, the most marvelous document and that he was amazed by its content. And that it really made an impact on him. And made him think. It wasn’t an act — I knew him well enough by then that he was being sincere. That document? The Declaration of Independence. Harvard Law School grad. Had never read the Declaration.

  • The_Gadfly

    when I sent him my piddly contribution during his first run for office.

    The first question I have in reading your posts is: Are you really “open” to the GOP?

    Because your post doesn’t read like you’ve actually sought out and read GOP positions, or even any of Buckley’s early books, although you know enough to drop his name. The positions we’ve taken on the issues where you disagree with us aren’t half-hazard. They are thought through trying to take into account where pursuing those positions would put us, 10, 25, 50, and 100 years from now. They are examined in light of the thousands of years of recorded history that have brought us to where we are. They are based on the presumption that in those thousands of years we learned a couple of things, and messing with them, even with the best of intentions, is quite likely to produce undesirable results.

    For instance, no conservative or Republican is opposed to stem cell research. Those of us who are opposed to one branch of it are opposed to embryonic stem cell research. We believe that adult stem cell research, which has already produced a number of viable medical remedies is a more productive path to follow. I personally regard ESR as a smoke screen to rationalize killing babies because by killing those babies we will be able to save some other people who happen to be alive. Hitler managed to convince a sufficient number of Germans that killing the Jews would solve his nation’s problems so that he could maintain power. If there is an actual benefit as opposed to the false apparition of actual benefit, the impetuous toward evil is even greater. And yes, I really think like that. Good and evil are real, not merely representative concepts to frame discussions, and Hitler is one real example.

    Next item, 16 years of Catholic education doesn’t mean you’ve avoided liberal indoctrination, in fact, you’ve probably received a more leftist indoctrination than someone who attended a public school. I attended public school not private, and most of the diehard leftists I’ve met were Catholic.

    Lastly, borrow one of Ann’s books from the library and read it. Any of them really, although I think Treason is probably one of her better ones. If you are up to having your world view challenged, read her one about liberals supplanting God (I can’t recall the exact title at the moment). I’m not asking you to pay her for it, just read it. You’ll find that she uses a lot of facts and citations that back up her facts. I enjoy her abrasiveness. I get tired of the McCainesque “we want to do the same thing only less so” and the “we need to turn the other cheek to prove our niceness” responses. I’m tired of being classed with the Nazi’s when in point of fact they were leftists who happened to be only very slightly to the right of the more extreme leftists in the USSR who managed to win the propaganda war. It’s payback time and Ann manages to extract her pound of flesh without drawing real blood.

    If you really can’t stand Ann, go buy Jonah’s book Liberal Fascism. He makes all the nice noises while eviscerating Progressivism as the plague upon mankind that it really is.

    Oh, and as for why we are so quick to “label” and “bash”? I’m not sure it’s still the language of your generation, but most of us have ‘Been there. Done that. Paid for the T-shirt.’ and after it was done, we didn’t even get to keep the T-shirt.

  • The_Gadfly

    “and don’t let the door hit..”

    Wait, I’m not allowed to say that here. Posting rules you know.

  • Achance
  • mom2oneson

    Most Catholic schools are very liberal. That is one reason why so many Catholic parents homeschool depsit enermous pressure from their priest and parish to support the school. Many Catholic schools were the first to embrace liberal ideas and teach them. Catholic homeschool publishers like Seton and OLVS have literally had to reprint textbooks from 50 years ago or write their own because there was nothing acceptable in print. My son’s 5th grade history book stopped way before Vietnam. ;)

    Don’t be offended by the matter of fact postings. They are real men and women on here with lots of experience to share. :)

  • modgopgal

    I would hope that those at Redstate would want to encourage young people like me. Unlike most people my age — I’m 23 — I’m interested in politics. I volunteered for the McCain campaign. I search out information from conservative blogs to learn more.

    But instead of encouragement, Achance hurls a very violent statement at me. He wrote:

    “If I was f@#king you, I?d have some obligation to you in my old-fashioned value system, but in the world of 23-year-olds, I wouldn?t.”

    I’m a young, conservative, Christian woman. Is that any way to speak to a young lady? The rules here say “be respectful or be banned. No profanity.” So I guess if you don’t spell out words like “f@#king” as Achance did that is OK?

    Then, I’m told I’m not welcome here. That is truly sad. I’m a young person looking for role models, I posted my concerns that many college-age Republicans feel, and I’m blasted.

    BTW, Achance, I was raped in college and your violent language is incredibly insensitive.

  • Achance
  • mom2oneson

    You first attacked Achance for not embracing you. His response may have been crude but it was not violent, there is a world of difference, I’m sure you know that. Also if you were that much of a state of hurt you would not accused him of not embracing you first, that isn’t how hurt people act.

    Now look at what he was saying to you, the world and him doesn’t owe you anything. Don’t expect people to give your special treatment, that is part of being a young lady too. I don’t have a daughter but if I did that is exactly what I would tell her.

    As far as no encouragement, you don’t get a participation award here for showing up and trying. That is only appropriate for small children learning how to play on team sports. People give you a response based your what you write.

  • ColdWarrior

    Modgopgal, that pretty much sums it up.

    You “feel” about issues?! Some free advice and encouragement, as you request: You need to start THINKING about the issues.

    And my comments are not intended to be mean, “violent” (what in the or hedoublehockeysticks is a “violent statement” and “violent language”?) or to hurt your feelings.

    Read, learn and think about the issues and form your core values and beliefs. And I hope you’ll stick around. Especially if the “mod” in your handle is an abbreviation for “modern” rather than for “moderate” or — shudder — “post-Modern.”

  • Achance

    Too many stock phrases. A canned “I was raped” story; how convenient! She’s mobying, pure and simple.

    And on the very, very slim chance that she’s not, well; welcome to the real world where people aren’t nice. If she’s not a moby, she can write a nice thoughtful diary that isn’t full of college liberal cant and see what happens. I won’t promise to be nice, though.

  • http://www.erickerickson.org Erick Erickson

    let’s all calm down on modgopgal. Give her some time to bear out whether she is who she says she is or not.

    We need to be rolling out the welcome mat.

  • Achance

    First reponse was critical but not nasty considering her post came right out of the college lefty phrasebook. She came back with total college lefty cant and I unloaded. Oh well. I’ll be nice and just ignore her.

    I know that GC and others are on a welcoming jag, but when the guest is wearing the uniform of the other side, at least the uniform orthography and syntax, I don’t feel very welcoming.

  • Finrod

    I’d point you at the quote directly off his Wikipedia page, but since Wikipedia lately has been sanitizing the biography pages of liberals to remove potentially embarrassing stuff, I had to go find where I’d quoted this before on redstate:

    (On convincing people not to vote for George W. Bush in 2004) “For example, you can go on all the pro-life chat rooms and say you’re an outraged right-wing voter and that you know that George Bush drove an ex-girlfriend to an abortion clinic and paid for her to get an abortion. Then you go to an anti-immigration website chat room and ask, ‘What’s all this about George Bush proposing amnesty for illegal aliens?’”

    That’s mobying. We named the practice after him because he prominently outlined the practice, so it’s only appropriate that he be saddled with it for the rest of his life. The term ‘fisking’ has a similar origin.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    I’m a front-pager here at RedState. Listen to what I’m about to say. You can change your tune, or I guarantee you, I will not stand in the way of how you get treated here.

    First, you might be alot of things, but you do not get to call yourself a “young, conservative, Christian woman“. You are a self-proclaimed pro-abortion, pro-gay-”marriage”, and you say”health care is a right”. The first two seriously call into question any claim you have on calling yourself a Christian. All 3 of those make you, plain and simple, *not conservative*. Even Rudy Giuliani admits that his pro-abortion views run counter to conservative. How about you have the same amount of respect for the term ‘conservative’.

    Your constant harping on how you are being offended (by Coulter, by AChance, by all of us, by the Republican Party), and reciting all the reasons we should have sympathy for you — all of this speaks to a person who feels entitled to respect without having to earn it.

    Well, that doesn’t fly here. Conservatism stands (among many other things) for people earning what they get.

    “Is that any way to speak to a young lady?” A lady does not demand respect to which she is not entitled.

    Life is tough, and you earn respect or you don’t get it. Suck up that upper lip. You are not a conservative, and if you want to defend what you are, then bring arguments, not victimhood.

    Otherwise, this is going to be a very, very rough ride for you.

  • Vegas_Rick

    nt

  • mom2oneson

    hurt people usually don’t announce their past traumas to people they have just met. Unless it’s someone else in the middle of a similar crisis and they share their own experience to help the person..but that isn’t the case here. Another similar hurt would make a person withdraw not announce their previous trauma and make themselves vulnerable again.

  • Aaron Gardner

    You say that you believe that Health Care is a right. Those who believe this also tend to believe that since it is a “right” that it is the governments responsibility to provide Health Care to all in order to fill the requirements of that “right. So the single payer, or socialist, system is put in place in order to ensure that the “rights” of the citizen is not infringed upon.

    Now, setting aside all of the inherent flaws in a single payer system run by the government, my question is; if Health Care is a right and the gov’t must provide it, will the govt then be responsible for funding abortions?

    This puts you at odds with your own beliefs at this point. So what happens now, do you fight for HealthCare as a right knowing that it would be used to Fund abortions?

    After answering the question please elaborate on the principles that guided you to your final decision.

    I hope this question allows you to empower yourself.

  • Martin Knight
  • Doc Holliday

    this site runs on its counter punchers in the comment pits!

  • Jack_Savage

    Join the Democrat Party. Attend their rallies. Read DailyKos and the Huffington Post every day, and watch MSNBC every night. Try to engage them in substantive discussion.

    Then tell us who is abrasive and nasty and hateful.

    Another good exercise might be to explain why you think you tend to the GOP anyway. I doubt you can do that, but an honest try might go a long way. Not to endear you to anyone here, but to help clear your head.

  • Achance
  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    whining endlessly.. just expecting/wanting that the Republican Party should become Democrat (just a little less Socialist) lite…. Maybe they should CHANGE PARTY and try and make the Democrat Party just a little less LEFT FIELD if they want to bring a Party to their concept of “Mainstream!”

  • David Hinz

    when you use tired liberal talking points. Coulter calls 911 widows “harpies?” Check your premises — you took that right from Media Matters.

    The harpies appellation was for certain specific women.

    “Camel jockey” for all Muslims? Or certain terrorists?

    methinks you are not a very convincing Moby

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    Then, I?m told I?m not welcome here. That is truly sad. I?m a young person looking for role models, I posted my concerns that many college-age Republicans feel, and I?m blasted.

    BTW, Achance, I was raped in college and your violent language is incredibly insensitive.

    You can’t pass yourself off as a Republican with stuff like this. Sorry.It doesn’t work.

    What you’ve done is what many a Kos plant has done. You take one word and blow it up into something it was not. Achance used one word and now he’s violent. In addition, you use something that has nothing to do with the topic of this post to accuse Achance of something he didn’t do, somehow assuming he should know you’ve been raped before when he has absolutely no idea who you are outside your screen name. How Christian of you to blame Achance for something he didn’t do.

    So, let me tell you something. I was molested repeatedly from the age of 6 until the age of 10. I was threatened not to tell my parents. My mom died not knowing and my Dad still doesn’t know either. My first husband was an abusive sob to whom I was married for 23 years.

    But it’s not even important anymore except I’ve bitten my tongue many a time, catching myself ready to say Obama reminds me of my ex and stuck to the facts instead.

    Now, you can play the victim and hope Obama takes care of you for the rest of your life or you can pick yourself up and get on with life from where you are. That might mean some deep soul searching and reevaluation of where you are before it happens but it’s heaps better than being a victim for the rest of, considering you’re 23, a long life. Nor is it going to happen overnight and will quite likely be a long road but it’s doable.

    It’s your choice. It’s not written in stone that you have to be a perpetual victim or use it as an excuse to be less than what you can be otherwise or to use as a bat to beat up somebody who had nothing to do with it or you until you posted here.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    We are still waiting to hear anything resembling a coherent thought as to what you base the concept that Health Care is a RIGHT and why it was just fine the country survived without it all this time!?!? What Constitutional Article/Amendment or other Founding Document Statement that vaguely relates…. I suspect it is the same LIBERAL warping of the “promote the General Welfare” BS that has been the basis to pass any/all LIBERAL agenda item…

    Promoting the General Welfare does not mean PAYING FOR it…. Promoting an environment in the country that allows PEOPLE to exercise their PERSONAL FREEDOM and INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY so that they can have the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS is what “promotes the general welfare!”

  • David Hinz

    the only one I got truly wrong was speciallist! I was sure he was a Moby — turns out he’s merely demented! [but its a dementia for good]

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    She’s not even trying and went straight for the attack because someone disagreed with what she had to say. Considering what she had to say afterwards, I get the feeling (call it a hunch) that such was her purpose.

    If so, she wanted a different kind of pile-on than what she got.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    The contrast between the real deal (you) and the counterfeit never was more apparent.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    Steph, I mean.

  • Achance

    I was being deliberately provacative with that one, so if I raised hackles on others, I’m truly sorry. I just developed a standard routine with Lefty women that I had to deal with; I knew that at some point they were either going to be victim or vixen, no in between; I always just went for it. I’d outright proposition them or insult them; kinda sets the ground rules. You haven’t live until you’ve seen a female union rep do her imitation of the stripper crawl down a conference table to hand around a document to the other side and the arbitrator. It’s just a game and I learned to play it hard.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    I know how you are and yes, you can be very deliberate when you’re provoking. It doesn’t matter whether it was deliberate or not. She set the standard when she wrapped herself in the victim mantle.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    She claims to be interested in “Conservative” viewpoint and has pointed out where she differs from the majority of those that identify as Conservative….. She could be focusing on some things that she is in agreement of Conservative values/principles…. yet we all wait to hear ANYTHING that she actually does agree with in Conservative principles.

    As I said elsewhere… “If she is REAL,” which I and others doubt, we have to be thankful she is (at least, claiming) to presumably vote Republican while she works out her contradictions and/or confusion. Confused folks usually default back to the Indoctrination Factory defaults and pull the JackAss lever.

    A site that has only those of ONE OPINION/THOUGHT is a boring site, so I certainly don’t want her muzzled or censored, just want her to put forth a coherent argument. I really HOPE she is questioning the Liberal Indoctrination it appears she is struggling to counter. She (again if real and her comments honest) appears to have some basic instinct that the Liberal Line is not the Right (yes, pun intended) path but hasn’t got a grasp yet (and hopefully we can help, if she is actually open to HEARING what we are trying to impart) on how/why she should be on the Right/Conservative side of things. Let us hope she will get that epiphany she has lacked, to date….

    I for one am going to just ignore her unless we get a real “thought” on any of her “Health Care is a Right” (which I have asked her directly for) rather than the “Feelings” blather indicative of a Liberal, not Conservative, mindset!

    I do agree that some should tone down or just ignore her… we all know how the Mobies/Trolls work… we ignore them and they get more irate and say something really stupid/outrageous enough to get themselves banned eventually!

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    .

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    .

  • janis

    she started out whining and just got worse. You don’t come here on a conservative website and whine to get your own way, you just don’t. And EPU was right on the button with his remarks that she couldn’t be much of a Christian, given the things she said she supported. To really frost the cake, she claimed to be a rape victim to try and guilt Achance, for God’s sake! And she says that she’s been a reader here for over a year? I think not–no one who’s been a reader here for even six months would throw themselves on the mercy of Achance with a whopper like that. He’s a good man, but he’s well known to be less than sympathetic to needy women with an agenda, and rightly so.

    Bottom line here: many of us can detect the self-righteous whining of liberal poseurs like a dog can hear a dog whistle. It may not be obvious to everybody, but to the honed ear, it’s unmistakable.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    but thanks for saying it.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    someone has to take the opposing viewpoint to keep the site Fair and Balanced you know ;-)

    WARNING (for the benefit of our Moby/Troll friends): SARCASM!

  • Achance
  • liandro

    Redstate probably isn’t really a great spot for new Republicans, or those who are still feeling out their political thoughts, unless perhaps you are just reading diaries. Redstate is more geared towards all-out fighting for (R) causes. And yes, people get ganged up on in roughly proportional numbers to how unpopular their opinion might be on a given topic…so grow a really thick skin and ignore non-front pagers unless they are actually debating/discussing policy.

    After you get to recognize the regulars, and their personalities, I would still probably avoid the comment battles/wars. It’s hard to keep things focused on actual points and away from denigration, especially if no one recognizes you. For better or for worse it takes a very long time to earn any respect around here, and unfortunately that makes it very hard to be a new poster. Most of the regulars here have been through many, many election cycles and are fairly unforgiving towards those who haven’t been.

  • E Pluribus Unum

    and you are still the real deal. Putting Miss Victim in her place is also part of what ladies do when necessary.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    ohhh… you know we can’t stay mad at you! ;-)

    WARNING (For our Lefty visitors): HUMOR (since Lefties have none, they can’t recognize it)…. we just funnin’ … a Levity break that we all need on occasion to remain sane in this screwed-up alternate reality known as The Obamism Era.

    If it is an Obama policy:

    Just once… JUST BLEEPIN’ ONCE… it would be nice if the COMMIE could have a policy I could praise him for!

  • Achance

    It is one of the sadnesses of my life that I have forsaken the respect for women that I was brought up to have. Anymore, they prove they’re a lady or I assume they’re something else. I’m rarely disappointed in my assessment.

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    There are times when lady would be the last word used to describe me. :-)

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    She has told us her age and mentioned College…. It is OBVIOUS that she is getting most of her information from her peers and/or Liberal Professors around her… so it is NOT surprising that she has these “Liberal constructs” ingrained into her Brain…. as I said elsewhere, if she is being real (as we all doubt) – at least she is questioning some of it! We need to continue to respond/fight her Indoctrination with reasoned thought (yes, we all have bad days, get irked, and/or get fed up and may say something “non-constructive” …. but you know what I mean…. Even if we do not reach her, there are others out there in the audience reading these threads that may be reached. Yes?!?!

  • Finrod

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Moby

  • paulincolo

    mod = modern liberal
    gop = democrat
    gal = guy

    That’s also my sixth sense.

  • mom2oneson

    but don’t accuse someone of being violent because he makes you blush with his stories or language. That isn’t right, and IRL it can be very damaging to another person. There are alternatives like ignoring it, playing dumb or if you are comfortable tell them to behave. She could have emailed the contact email if she really felt uncomfortable.

  • http://www.ssce.net/Web-Articles/Web-articles-indexed-authors.html#authors-l JLenardDetroit

    and yet I still wonder just what it is he “sepcializes” in!?!? ;-)

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    Dementia

  • http://hillbillypolitics.com Steph C

    Dementia

  • mom2oneson

    You are very nice and empathetic.